To the best of my knowledge, RR's vote against DV doesn't count. Unfortunately, I cannot comment any further on that. Ever. Cause reasons. Mostly being that I have a gag order from Mr. T. that's about 300 pages long.
this is super interesting.
and more or less clears DV in my mind. having a member of mafia that cant be voted for is a whole new level of bastardry
Tar/Azrael most likely have lyncher/lynchee roles; want to do research into old Mind Screws to see if there's any merit to resolving that dichotomy now.
i suspect later is better, but the idea of you kingmaking taredas after a lynch is fully hilarious
@TS: I guess someone needs to point to you that just because something doesn't have town motivation behind it, it doesn't equate with that there's scum motivation behind it.
OK, now I'm sure TS is scum. This defensive rage is much more faked and lazy than his other furies.
"Already getting hard to remember all the lies, isn't it Tom?" - Already starting off with the oldest trick in the book: Nonsensically attacking the person, not his actions.
"Nice try avoiding the question. I said to share with us this easy town read/tell you have on Hans." - Again, but this one is even less founded. He's just ignoring the actual answer here: It doesn't ******* matter. TS is just trying to find something to be angry at, and Hans and Tom were the first things he saw. The TS I know doesn't get half as bent out of shape over stuff like this.
"This is laughable. What information did he share with us Tom? That he ended the day. The obvious question would first be "Why did Hans end the day? What is the town motivation? You still have failed to provide any town motivation." - This is my main gripe. This is lazy, a terrible play, and gives more ground to the scum in every way. @TS: YOUR job is to find town motivation. Telling someone else to do it for you is stupid, lazy, and unreasonable. Hans is town because Scum would never A) Use the ability like that, and B) Claim it because that would draw attention to them to that they could screw up. You are being lazy and nonsensically angry.
"Now you are trying to spin this away from you, perhaps trying to lead DOTA to jump in on your defense? Otherwise what is the reason for this statement? Certainly no town motivation here." - WTF. TS just casually ignores Tom's entire statement and says it has no town motivation, when it is calling him out on his laziness and nonsense. I don't see town motivation in just reading what you want to see and making assumptions accordingly.
"I've played with you in 3+ games now. In ALL games you have gone after me hard from the very beginning(first 1-2 days as scum). In all games I was town." - My second main gripe. He ignores all the attacks made in a paragraph of posting and said, "The last time you had me as scum, I was town." This time it's founded because he's being lazy and unreasonable. The chances of you hitting town four times in a row isn't easy.
I don't have time for anything else right now until Afternoon.
this post might be worse than anything tapping has said.
i did the bolding. those totally go well together
i need to think about if this could be bussing
He calls almost everyone town (either directly or through compliments or otherwise obvious buddying)
do i? i have solidly zero opinion on half the playerbase.
and now we get to tapping:
within the quotes, i kept him in bold and me in...not bold
Because you said Hans is easy to read. Already getting hard to remember all the lies, isn't it Tom?
do you disagree? i dont want to dump on hans, but like... he is
and no, i take a lot of notes. if i had lies to keep track of, i would.
i put him at 80% town. sure, that number is made up rather than scientific. but its not that far from the starting point.
ive got bur, gj, and d_v in roughly the same place. I don't care where you have those folks right now as you are giving a scum vibe
you dont get to ask over and over why i think hans is town and then completely dismiss the 3 other players i have as equally town.
Nice try avoiding the question. I said to share with us this easy town read/tell you have on Hans. I'm not letting you off the hook on this one Tom. You bit off more than you could chew because you like to quick post without thinking. Give us specific posts from that game that show you can distinctly link this game's behavior to that game's behavior. Otherwise you'll have to fess up to BSing us.
avoiding the question? you asked me what game i read with hans in it and i answered?
i even linked it so you can read it if you want (i highly suggest it, but not for the hans part)
im not gonna go through it again and pbpa it. im not saying i have some ironclad townread of hans (youre saying that) but i think hes fairly likely to be town because ive seen his willingness to put himself out there as town and just blurt whatever hes got. hans is sort of like a much less active me in that sense.
Quote from tom »
it should be obvious to everyone he cant answer that without revealing his role. you realize that, right?
weird you didnt respond to this part.
to which the incredibly easy/obvious answer, whether hans bothered to say it or not, is "because i had information to share with my homies so i did" This is laughable. What information did he share with us Tom? That he ended the day. The obvious question would first be "Why did Hans end the day? What is the town motivation? You still have failed to provide any town motivation. Why wouldn't scum claim they ended the day so they could get instant "Tom cred".
no, i provided town motivation multiple times. sharing information IS town motivated.
sure he could do it as scum too. it would be a solid next level play.
but frankly i havent been enough impressed with hans to see that as a scum play from him.
that inability to see the obvious townsplanation is a huge red flag that you werent coming at this from a town mindset. The red flag is that you still have FAILED to provide a town explanation for this. I'm still waiting for it and will continue to ask for it until you give one.
ok this is getting ridiculous
Quote from TS »
Tom calling me scum makes no sense. He immediately tried to defend Hans and said Hans is "easy to read". Tom has no experience with Hans flipping. It is a bizarre thing to say. DOTA is trying to misrep, but I kinda wanba give him more leeway as he was tripping over his own feet in our last game together.
which is a fully terrible post.
id like to paraphrase here: "tom is too dumb to be right about me being scum! dota is also scum but hes so stupid he might be town" Now you are trying to spin this away from you, perhaps trying to lead DOTA to jump in on your defense? Otherwise what is the reason for this statement? Certainly no town motivation here.
well, my motivation is catching scum.
i attacked you this way in predator, and i attacked you this way in the classic.
i was acting differently, as im much more experienced/know you better/am being less silly and more logical this game.
but the premise is still the same. i found something that pinged me, picked at it a bit, and waited for you to blow up to reveal the truth.
what i saw in those other two games was genuine anger. you threatened to replace out, you asked for me to be replaced, you BLEW THE **** UP. and both times, i started townreading you for those blowups.
i died Day 2 in both of those games, and managed to attack you and use your reactions to put you as solidly town.
I've played with you in 3+ games now. In ALL games you have gone after me hard from the very beginning(first 1-2 days as scum). In all games I was town.
uh, yeah. thats what i just said...
im saying youre different now
what im seeing now is a pale imitation. youre saying the right words, but you were in those games too. this is fake anger.
its much harder to stoke that flame of rage when im totally ******* right. There is no rule that I have to get super pissed to be town Tom. The fact that you are reaching this far shows how little you really have to go on. I'm shown quite a bit of frustration with this fake wagon already. I don't have to do it in a way that pleases you. In some games I wont show anger at all, depends if you are alive or not most-likely.
yeah. its not a rule.
its just what you do as town. were not talking about rules, were talking about behavioural patterns
so yeah, this is why tapping is scum. seriously people, im so sure of this that i almost think its a waste to run him up on the first (second?) Day when i still so badly want nacho to prove his claim.
if i was more sure of nacho, id suggest just running me up so i can get town confirmed and we can just lynch tapping tomorrow.
thats probably a bad plan anyway though because night kill. i might actually be a viable target for scum if i were confirmed town AND just nailed the ***** out of one of them.This last part is pretty terrible. You want to suggest running yourself up for day one? That makes no sense, total bluff. If you truly believe this then put your vote on yourself and I will assuredly get you your wish scum.
i mean, it makes some sense. if nacho is being truthful i can get myself confirmed in thread. thats sweet.
but not as good as killing scum.
Not sure what you and Tom are talking about. I never said I want to hide my alignment. The fact that you are taking Tom's words at face value and running with them seems like a scum slip here. Please post where I said that I want to keep my alignment hidden.
what are you talking about. if someone said something about hiding your alignment, quote it or something because i must have missed it, and it certainly hasnt been on my mind while reading your posts
Also, don't send me your night actions. That would be a bad thing. Hilarious, but bad.
At least, for the time being...
Are you the co-mod of this game?
Are you also a player in this game?
Do you have full access to this game's setup?
...Is Taredas also playing in this game?
Dear Moderators
Is Taredas the Game Host or the Moderator?
Is Azreal the Game Host or the Moderator
What is the Weather Currently?
What channel is the TV turned to Currently?
Are there other Warning Lights?
How many votes until a player is lynched today.
What year is it?
How many Communists are currently in the game?
Is Seppel playing under any circumstance?
If I guess a rule correctly will you confirm the rule?
Can new rules be made?
Is Taredas or Azreal trying to destroy the Town Faction?
Who currently hands out fouls?
Have any "Strikes" happened?
Does Azreal of Taredas hand out the "Strikes"?
Does Azreal or Taredas hand out "Fouls"?
Does Azreal know what causes "Fouls"?
Am I asking questions correctly?
accidentally quoted hans instead of tapping in my last post, sorry. doing it from my phone and i just woke up so formatting got screwy
@imab what tipped the scales for you for into thinking no lynch/governer is a good plan. im still on the fence
Usually I have some good scumreads by now. All of my scumreads have evaporated and I'm feeling lost. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a question or two. Otherwise I might have to resort to some generic catchall questions I've kept around that I hate having to use.
@IABM-Which vote would you say looks the worst on me right now?
I think Tom and Necarg both look like places to start. Tom has dug his feet in to an indefensible position and Necarg jumping on the way he did looks bad.
Tom is stuck in his typical "tunnel vision".
I'm not sure if Necarg's post is alignment indicative though.
DoTArchon's vote actually looks worse than Necarg but special mention goes to Huntzilla's "pre-planned defense" accusation in post 117. I didn't like that at all.
I disagree. If we have a consensus lynch choice, then we agree that that person is likely scum. Pardoning scum would just mean that that we have to kill them the next day - it's a wasted lynch, and we give that scum an extra day for dastardly deeds.
i think you have more faith in the wisdom of crowds than me.
we're almost never gonna be sure about our first lynch. even the bravado i have for tappingstones right now, theres still like a decent chance hes town. i would put that number as low as 20%. a huge change from the default 70%, but thats still a thing.
@tapping/leuk/hans
that was me. i said something about wanting to hide your alignment. post 190.
@imab tunnelling is only bad if im wrong.
i know i tunnelled the ***** out of you last game we played together, but even you have to admit it was justified with the information i had. i absolutely knew you were lying, and you were.
@Hans-Feel free to chime in anytime you like. What is the town motivation to claim there? I've asked this question so many times and no one can seem to provide any reasonable town motivation for Hans to claim there as town.
@hans sorry if youve already answered this and i didnt see, but how do you feel about this big reaction to tapping's question. what are your reads on tom and tapping right now.
My gut says it's a town/town argument based on how both thinks he is right (i.e. Tom genuinely thinks I'm town and TS genuinely thinks that it's scummy that I'm withholding information), but I could be wrong about either one. I'm sorta skeptical of Tom dogmatically townreading me for no legitimate reason, which would imply he's scum and already knows I'm town, but then I don't think he would have the guts to openly tell Nacho to govern him like he did a couple times already. So I think they're both town atm. I suppose TS could be scum hoping to push through a mislynch, but he's been way too whiney for this to be the case, imo.
----
Do you guys think D_V's post restriction is similar to Juliet? I guess it's not really important, but that's what comes to mind when I read his posts.
Also, that No Lynch guy is probably scum and you all should vote him.
Not sure what you and Tom are talking about. I never said I want to hide my alignment. The fact that you are taking Tom's words at face value and running with them seems like a scum slip here. Please post where I said that I want to keep my alignment hidden.
wat.
I don't even know what you are talking about? I didn't say anything about you wanting to hide your alignment. And which of Tom's words am I taking at face value? Nothing in this post even makes sense.
Anak not you Hans. Posting from my phone. I was trying to respond to post 196 from Anak.
While I have you here can you explain why you are suggesting that I said you are scummy. Tons of misrepresentations going around right now. I asked for the TOWN MOTIVATION because I want to know what it could be.
Hans give some reads. Is there a world where Tom is town? T/S list and whatnot.
I disagree. If we have a consensus lynch choice, then we agree that that person is likely scum. Pardoning scum would just mean that that we have to kill them the next day - it's a wasted lynch, and we give that scum an extra day for dastardly deeds.
i think you have more faith in the wisdom of crowds than me.
we're almost never gonna be sure about our first lynch. even the bravado i have for tappingstones right now, theres still like a decent chance hes town. i would put that number as low as 20%. a huge change from the default 70%, but thats still a thing.
@tapping/leuk/hans
that was me. i said something about wanting to hide your alignment. post 190.
@imab tunnelling is only bad if im wrong.
i know i tunnelled the ***** out of you last game we played together, but even you have to admit it was justified with the information i had. i absolutely knew you were lying, and you were.
I never said I wanted to hide my alignment. What's with the misreps Tom?
if this game was based on what people actually said...i cant even finish this sentence.
what i am advocating to end this Day (to be clear, this is probably a few weeks down the road) is everyone voting you, nacho pardoning you and having your alignment publicly revealed.
im gonna copy that and have it here again, this time in purple:
what i am advocating to end this Day is everyone voting tappingstones, nacho pardoning him, and having his alignment publicly revealed.
now sure, i think it should be you because youre probably scum. and i am the clear other choice if this is the way we decide to proceed.
lets be straight up here. we are gonna post a lot. we are just going to have the most interactions and thats how it is. (and i would love someone else to prove this false. i think everyone should be as active as me. but i get it)
but why i want it shouldnt matter to you if you know youll be revealed town. this is the thing youve been against.
if this game was based on what people actually said...i cant even finish this sentence.
what i am advocating to end this Day (to be clear, this is probably a few weeks down the road) is everyone voting you, nacho pardoning you and having your alignment publicly revealed.
im gonna copy that and have it here again, this time in purple:
what i am advocating to end this Day is everyone voting tappingstones, nacho pardoning him, and having his alignment publicly revealed.
now sure, i think it should be you because youre probably scum. and i am the clear other choice if this is the way we decide to proceed.
lets be straight up here. we are gonna post a lot. we are just going to have the most interactions and thats how it is. (and i would love someone else to prove this false. i think everyone should be as active as me. but i get it)
but why i want it shouldnt matter to you if you know youll be revealed town. this is the thing youve been against.
Tom are you drunk? I have never shown any reservation against that.
But here's the thing Tom, we are going to vote who we think is scum. You dont get to make it a me versus you thing. I don't think there is any chance I get run up for a mislynch here.
My play is straight forward and aimed at solving the game. Others see this.
You on the other hand are playing erratic and not trying to solve the game. Giving out town reads like oranges slices at a kids soccer match. Your attacks against me dont have any substance.
We are anxiously awaiting the Hans "easytown read" tells that you mentioned earlier. Which posts (in the game you didnt even play in) give you the easy town read? Spoiler alert Tom was lying.
How towny is it for someone this early in the day to say the lynch must be between him and one other person? Does it make any sense that Tom has already stopped trying to solve the game?
Tom are you drunk? I have never shown any reservation against that.
i mean, its what i want and youre bucking against it pretty damn hard.
Quote from ts »
My play is straight forward and aimed at solving the game. Others see this.
your play is almost entirely aimed at getting hans to give information he wont give, pointing a finger at everyone that thinks youre scum, and speculating about the NPCs.
if others see you trying to solve the game, i'd love to hear from them.
not that i think thats a problem by the way. i havent exactly given you the time and space to figure anything out. but i dont think you have anything to solve anyway.
Quote from ts »
You on the other hand are playing erratic and not trying to solve the game. Giving out town reads like oranges slices at a kids soccer match. Your attacks against me dont have any substance.
erratic? i think ive been pretty consistent for quite some time.
youre also the second person to make this handing out town reads argument. back it up.
the only people i recall townreading specifically are DV, hans, bur, and gj. id hardly call that "like oranges (sic) slices at a kids soccer match" (which is a great line btw. kudos)
Quote from ts »
We are anxiously awaiting the Hans "easytown read" tells that you mentioned earlier. Which posts (in the game you didnt even play in) give you the easy town read? Spoiler alert Tom was lying.
i think putting himself out there like that for no real reason is a pretty solid town tell for hans.
coming from someone like me, it would be fairly meaningless.
like, im not gonna win a game by keeping to the shadows. but that seems like the blueprint for hans winning as scum.
he was in my first game and in another past game i read. and hes been an open book every time.
[snip] most importantly, are you asserting he isnt easy to read? because im pretty sure thats the claim that needs justified
its not specific posts. its hans in his entirety that im basing this on.
Quote from ts »
How towny is it for someone this early in the day to say the lynch must be between him and one other person? Does it make any sense that Tom has already stopped trying to solve the game?
i dont even want a lynch today. i want a publicly revealed cop shot (terminology credit: GJ)
and how have i stopped? is it my fault that the rest of you and necarg's buddies havent done anything overtly scummy yet?
Tom are you drunk? I have never shown any reservation against that.
i mean, its what i want and youre bucking against it pretty damn hard.
Quote from ts »
My play is straight forward and aimed at solving the game. Others see this.
your play is almost entirely aimed at getting hans to give information he wont give, pointing a finger at everyone that thinks youre scum, and speculating about the NPCs.
if others see you trying to solve the game, i'd love to hear from them.
not that i think thats a problem by the way. i havent exactly given you the time and space to figure anything out. but i dont think you have anything to solve anyway.
Quote from ts »
You on the other hand are playing erratic and not trying to solve the game. Giving out town reads like oranges slices at a kids soccer match. Your attacks against me dont have any substance.
erratic? i think ive been pretty consistent for quite some time.
youre also the second person to make this handing out town reads argument. back it up.
the only people i recall townreading specifically are DV, hans, bur, and gj. id hardly call that "like oranges (sic) slices at a kids soccer match" (which is a great line btw. kudos)
Quote from ts »
We are anxiously awaiting the Hans "easytown read" tells that you mentioned earlier. Which posts (in the game you didnt even play in) give you the easy town read? Spoiler alert Tom was lying.
i think putting himself out there like that for no real reason is a pretty solid town tell for hans.
coming from someone like me, it would be fairly meaningless.
like, im not gonna win a game by keeping to the shadows. but that seems like the blueprint for hans winning as scum.
he was in my first game and in another past game i read. and hes been an open book every time.
[snip] most importantly, are you asserting he isnt easy to read? because im pretty sure thats the claim that needs justified
its not specific posts. its hans in his entirety that im basing this on.
Quote from ts »
How towny is it for someone this early in the day to say the lynch must be between him and one other person? Does it make any sense that Tom has already stopped trying to solve the game?
i dont even want a lynch today. i want a publicly revealed cop shot (terminology credit: GJ)
and how have i stopped? is it my fault that the rest of you and necarg's buddies havent done anything overtly scummy yet?
Scum slip there Tom? You have been adament that Im 80% to be scum. Now we have you on the record saying "havent done anything overtly scummy".
You are really having a hard time keeping your story straight old sport!
id think youd reread the one sentence you decided to comment on before commenting on it.
"you and necargs buddies" and I quote. Does you not refer to me? Who else are yiu talking to?
If Necarg is a scum target then why arent you persueing him? Just casting aqusations at him, it just doesnt feel like you are trying to figure anything out.
Almost playing like a neutral who doesnt know what to do so comes across as newb scum. Strange...
the rest of the scum team hasnt done anything overtly scummy yet. you and necarg have.
would you have preferred "the buddies of you and necarg"? because that seems way clunkier to me but i guess it doesnt leave room for this misunderstanding.
i did think that was pretty clear based on context though.
and i called a necarg post scummy and he hasnt been here since. dont worry, ill come back around to him.
he certainly hasnt posted enough to be sure, but yeah hes my second candidate right now.
i think everyone else would appreciate if this didnt just turn into a conversation between the two of us.
if you decide to comment on the rest of my post, ill respond tomorrow.
It really can be. White knighting can be as well. I rather do wish that you'd left my comment for Tapping to respond to instead of jumping in - reactions from people are one of the best tools we have at this point.
Followup: the last thing that I see you saying about Tapping was this:
@RR Which part in particular set the scales as TS is scum for you? A specific overreaction that would come from scum?
Unfortunately my notes are at home on my other computer. IIRC, I have a couple posts of his noted as not reflecting well on him, and nothing specifically noted as redeeming. I'll get back to you tonight with specifics.
Also, for the record, I do not yet believe him to be scum - just more likely scum than anyone else, and so most deserving of my vote so far.
To the best of my knowledge, RR's vote against DV doesn't count. Unfortunately, I cannot comment any further on that. Ever. Cause reasons. Mostly being that I have a gag order from Mr. T. that's about 300 pages long.
this is super interesting.
and more or less clears DV in my mind. having a member of mafia that cant be voted for is a whole new level of bastardry
Well, you don't know that he can't be voted for at all - we only know that he can't be voted for right now. Also, have you read the name of the game you're currently playing?
I disagree. If we have a consensus lynch choice, then we agree that that person is likely scum. Pardoning scum would just mean that that we have to kill them the next day - it's a wasted lynch, and we give that scum an extra day for dastardly deeds.
i think you have more faith in the wisdom of crowds than me.
we're almost never gonna be sure about our first lynch. even the bravado i have for tappingstones right now, theres still like a decent chance hes town. i would put that number as low as 20%. a huge change from the default 70%, but thats still a thing.
Well, doubting the wisdom of crowds goes with the second part of what I said - that townie-Nachomamma is likely to make a better decision than the group of us as a whole. My point, which I stand behind, is that I want the use of Nacho's ability to be his choice, and not anyone else's. My worry is that subordinating his decision to the town will result in (1) less information about Nacho, and also (2) less information about the town as a whole. I think people are likely to be lazy about their rationales if they know that they are choosing a player to be revealed, instead of one to kill, and that'll colour our reads going forward.
This game has weird rules. I learn possible rules (these rules might exist, might not). Today I learned the rule that if someone's role contradicts a game rule, the role will win.
I remember there were a couple in Inheritance Mafia - there was a random kindergarten class around - but I can't remember how they were relevant. I'll take a look if I have time.
From inheritance, I recall that the main computer being functional had a great deal to do with the rule-toggling role being functional or not. The Seer was tied into the storyline, some extra flavor scenes, and might have had something to do with enabling some investigative roles, IIRC. The Kindergarten class did absolutely nothing aside from figure into some end-scene flavor.
Are you the co-mod of this game?
Are you also a player in this game?
Do you have full access to this game's setup?
...Is Taredas also playing in this game?
No. At least, not right now.
Not in the traditional sense.
I'm not allowed to answer that. (I think I'm not allowed to answer that? Either I'm not allowed to answer that, or I'm not allowed to discuss...something closely related to that question.)
I can't answer that. Period.
Dear Moderators
Is Taredas the Game Host or the Moderator?
Is Azreal the Game Host or the Moderator
What is the Weather Currently?
What channel is the TV turned to Currently?
Are there other Warning Lights?
How many votes until a player is lynched today.
What year is it?
How many Communists are currently in the game?
Is Seppel playing under any circumstance?
If I guess a rule correctly will you confirm the rule?
Can new rules be made?
Is Taredas or Azreal trying to destroy the Town Faction?
Who currently hands out fouls?
Have any "Strikes" happened?
Does Azreal of Taredas hand out the "Strikes"?
Does Azreal or Taredas hand out "Fouls"?
Does Azreal know what causes "Fouls"?
Am I asking questions correctly?
The only of these I can answer for you is that my objective is NOT to destroy the town faction.
i work open to close at work today so i might post over the lunch hour but if not expect nothing from me until tomorrow. havent read anything yet but i didnt see much other than a bunch of tom
This game has weird rules. I learn possible rules (these rules might exist, might not). Today I learned the rule that if someone's role contradicts a game rule, the role will win.
7hawk77, why did you not acknowledge Ghosting's request for you to wait on your claim in post 162? Did you miss it, or choose not to respond?
(I should be quoting stuff, but in a bit of a rush, have two tests tomorrow in chemistry and physics so in between studying and reading this.)
@Tom: 1) I mentioned 5 or so posts where you either straight up called people town or made comments that implied they were town. You're welcome to check them again if you need, I made sure to reference the posts so it'd be easy to verify.
2) Out of curiosity, how much Mafia have you played? Do you have your past games linked anywhere so I can check some out?
3) Doesn't a publicly revealed shot alongside a no lynch only hurt the town? We would then be giving scum a free night to kill as well as a confirmed town player for them to get rid of. It provides us with no information, and it's already so early on. As far as I see it, that would only give the scum a really easy early game. With that in mind, I've played almost exclusively basics, so correct me if I'm wrong.
4) If you aren't certain that TS is scum (you have a 20% uncertainty, and have also said he isn't overtly scummy), why are you trying to get him lynched so quickly? We have plenty of time and a LOT going on right now, as well as a lot of players who have barely said anything.
@Hawk: Seconding Rob, did you not see my request? We really didn't need scum to be getting this much information so early, at least not without some kind of discussion beforehand.
@Prophylaxis: Can you tell me why you think imab is town? All I saw was that you said he felt town, but you didn't let us know why.
Claiming was my personal choice and I think it helps the town more to get information like this out in the open.
I get that you didn't care, but all I asked for was a little bit of discussion. You couldn't have at least said: I don't care, does anybody else care if I claim? Can you tell us how this is beneficial to the town in any way? Can you tell us how this information helps us, and doesn't just help "confirm" you as town?
Rob: I've seen the "TS is scum for being overreactive!" song and dance before: it's not interesting, we aren't going to get anything productive out of it. So, I prefer to shut it down before I see the same game playing before me again and again.
Tom: If Hans had a role that gave him the ability to skip a day and a night (no net gain/loss for either alignment), don't you think he would use it? Why wouldn't he claim using it as scum?
@GJ -
In a majority of cases, "me holding the town hostage" is "me revealing the alignment of the lynched player publicly" which doesn't actually seem to be an absolutely terrible thing. The only way where I'll make a lynched player king is if the lynch is absolutely atrocious, and I'll be particularly vocal in denouncing it, so you probably don't have anything to worry about! :]
As long as we are agreed. Because if I thought for a split second you were planning on only pushing lynches you wanted, and the rest of us were along for the ride.....
You would be dead where you stand.
If you want a very honest, brutal truth, I have no idea who she is or why she would say anything like that.
From the way you're talking about her, she honestly probably believes what she's saying but she unfortunately has no idea what she's talking about.
*Closes eyes*
Your response seems to have us convinced that you might be sincere. I believe you for what it is worth, but have zero knowledge of mind screw games. But I have friends who do.
Bur/Necarg are both very likely town.
I think it is far too early to call either. Neither of which feel super scummy, but neither have really put out that much. Bur seems busy, but I want to see how he follows up.
Quote from Hans »
lol no
I am doing my research right now. The shards are nothing more than my play things. You have one opportunity to admit you lied about skipping the day. If one of us finds out that you were lying, I won't care if you are an innocent child cop, I will lynch you. This is your only opportunity: Did you actually influence day 1?
Quote from Anak »
An interesting thought, considering you are voting No Lynch right now. Why is GJ scum for voting No Lynch, and not you? Also, if that's the case, I think your post is missing something.
Its a vote. For GJ.
Hans explained this. I read it the exact way he meant it.
Well, you don't know that he can't be voted for at all - we only know that he can't be voted for right now. Also, have you read the name of the game you're currently playing?
As I have said before, and will say again. It is most definitely not the second day, in which case I am not here.
Claiming was my personal choice and I think it helps the town more to get information like this out in the open.
The thing is, I don't see this as helping the town. You have told us that, among the rules we cannot see, there may or may not be one that says that roles can break the game rules. That's barely information of any kind.
Rob: I've seen the "TS is scum for being overreactive!" song and dance before: it's not interesting, we aren't going to get anything productive out of it. So, I prefer to shut it down before I see the same game playing before me again and again.
Are you referring to players in general doing this, or TS in particular? If the latter, is there an example game you can provide me? This is my first game back in a while, so there are a lot of people I don't have metagame reads on at all.
(Although I just noticed Gentleman Johnny's sig. Apparently there's one more player in the game that I'm familiar with than I thought!)
@Ghosting: imab's #206 I feel is pretty insightful to his thought process, and it's something that I've felt in most of my other games before.
@tom/TS: What are your thoughts on the playerbase besides both of you? Most of the thread has been just you two dunking (hi GJ!) it out thus far and I want to see your (behavioral) thoughts on other people.
Gut says Ghosting and RobRoy are town, and I don't want to no-lynch. When I review later in the day I'll see hawk's alignment.
Please explain how "we didn't need the scum getting this much information so early" knowing that. A.) This rule might not even exist in this game, it's just a possibility and B.) Why do you think this is actually useful to the scum team more so than town?
@Tom
Hey tom. You enjoying your this game so far?
@Everyone else
I think hans is my biggest town read right now.
@Tom: 1) I mentioned 5 or so posts where you either straight up called people town or made comments that implied they were town. You're welcome to check them again if you need, I made sure to reference the posts so it'd be easy to verify.
2) Out of curiosity, how much Mafia have you played? Do you have your past games linked anywhere so I can check some out?
3) Doesn't a publicly revealed shot alongside a no lynch only hurt the town? We would then be giving scum a free night to kill as well as a confirmed town player for them to get rid of. It provides us with no information, and it's already so early on. As far as I see it, that would only give the scum a really easy early game. With that in mind, I've played almost exclusively basics, so correct me if I'm wrong.
4) If you aren't certain that TS is scum (you have a 20% uncertainty, and have also said he isn't overtly scummy), why are you trying to get him lynched so quickly? We have plenty of time and a LOT going on right now, as well as a lot of players who have barely said anything.
1) i went back to those 7 posts you mentioned.
-4 of them (38, 40, 60, 73) are me calling hans town.
-48 "i love where bur's head is at." is implying bur is town, a natural reaction to agreeing with someone.
-88 "it pretty awesome how quickly we caught scum in this game. i thought it would be much harder." which doesnt fit your thesis at all
-125 "good job so far hunt. keep it up" can be read as me thinking hunt is town, but was really me trying to get tapping to answer his question.
so yeah. that aint hardly "He calls almost everyone town"
2) this is my 4th game, all in the last couple months. no links, but predator, classic, and stargate (in progress).
3) it hurts us less than mislynching imo. and gives us information on nacho as well as the not-lynched player
4) are you sure youre reading my posts? he IS overtly scummy, i dont want to end the day yet, its impossible to be certain yet
Tom: If Hans had a role that gave him the ability to skip a day and a night (no net gain/loss for either alignment), don't you think he would use it? Why wouldn't he claim using it as scum?
i mean the only reason he would claim it as scum is for the town credit/wifom.
so yeah, its possible. its just more likely to come from townhans.
@tom/TS: What are your thoughts on the playerbase besides both of you? Most of the thread has been just you two dunking (hi GJ!) it out thus far and I want to see your (behavioral) thoughts on other people.
most people are still null.
DV i like even better with AZ throwing shade
i have warm feelings towards bur, gj, and hans.
hawk and nacho im getting there.
you and leuk i have the tiniest inkling that says town, but it isnt much.
jobie is the player i most want to hear more from. we have *history*
ghosting im feeling aggressively neutral on.
robroy and necarg are just scummy enough to make me uncomfortable being on a wagon with them
I find it interesting that as soon as I post that what you did wasn't beneficial to the town, you start to call me suspicious and that I was fear mongering by saying we should at least discuss you claiming before you do. Isn't there a term for this? I forget the name but I know there was a term for when people start saying you're scum/scummy in response to another playing questioning them, or calling them scum, etc. Anyway, can you explain how that is fear mongering?
Is that the only reason you dislike me?
Do you think I'm scum (maybe even worthy enough to be voted for)?
This sounds a lot like "I'm not going to say I think they're town yet, but I won't say they're scum yet either. Let me just fencesit some more while I see what other people think of that opinion as well as the players themselves.
Please explain how "we didn't need the scum getting this much information so early" knowing that. A.) This rule might not even exist in this game, it's just a possibility and B.) Why do you think this is actually useful to the scum team more so than town?
@Tom
Hey tom. You enjoying your this game so far?
@Everyone else
I think hans is my biggest town read right now.
Since I asked the question first, can you answer it? I'd prefer to have questions answered rather than deflected with a question on myself. I have no problem answering, but please give me the same honor. What benefit do you gain by not discussing?
This is my fourth post in a row I'm really sorry guys, lol. Shouldn't phone post so much.
Also, Hawk, please tell me how you explicitly saying you don't care and that you were just thinking about yourself at all helps the town. Who is more than one player.
2) What do you mean, you can't tell me any of the other rules?
Exactly what I said. Reading is tech. Teach
3) So should I assume that there aren't any rules at all?
Not necessarily. I recommend you look up a little piece of philosophy called Pascal's Wager. It might be somewhat relevant to this situation.
4) But you're not God!
Without the curse, there is no God. With the curse, there is fear. With fear, there is worship! Now is the time that God advents! I HA-excuse me, I got carried away and nearly included spoilers for something. Where was I? Oh yes.
5) Will you at least tell us how many votes it is to lynch?
Did I not say that I cannot tell you any of the other rules? Don't make me smite you.
6) When is our deadline?
Once again, I would like to remind you that I cannot tell you any of the other rules. Don't worry, only a bastard Mod would let a deadline sneak up on you without any warning...
... hmm, maybe you should lynch really, really quickly.
7) I saw your ruleset in Mind Screw Mafia on MafiaScum. Can I assume that your rules here are similar?
You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
8) Why did the mod give me a Foul in a vote count and mention that it regards one of my posts?
It might be an indicator that you screwed up and broke the rules somehow. It might be the result of a game mechanic. It might be titled “Foul” instead of the more traditional “Rules Infraction” because this is MTGS rather than MafiaScum.
Or, it might be that your Mod is a bastard Mod and is just placing "Foul" at the end of random posts.
You decide!
9) Why did the Mod give me a Strike [number] in a vote count?
It might be an indicator that you really screwed up and should not do that again. Or maybe the Mod just likes baseball a lot. Either way, just remember... “STRIKE THREE, YOU'RE OUT!”
10) The Vote Count doesn't look right. Why is that?
Probably because I screwed up (my issues with vote counts are legendary). Say something and I'll double-check.
11) Wait, you checked and said it's right but it's still obviously wrong!
Then it's right, and you don't yet understand why it is right.
12) Is the game nightless?
Good question. Unfortunately, I can't tell you the answer at this time. I can tell you that if you have a night action then the game probably has nights, and if you have a day action that isn't a Rapid Action then it's probably nightless.
13) Wait, Rapid Actions? What are those?
Abilities that resolve immediately upon receipt (as opposed to at the end of the phase they are submitted during). Think split second from Time Spiral block.
14) I think you screwed up with something.
Let me know and I'll take a look for myself.
15) You checked, then said it was right and the decision was final. I still disagree...
Disagreeing is fine, but once I've indicated a decision is final (which usually occurs only with judgment calls such as “is this quoting a mod PM?”, most things are more cut and dried) then the decision is, in fact, final. You can still disagree, but please be polite about it and wait until the end of the game before complaining loudly.
16) Why are you not allowed to tell us any of the other rules?
Please report to your local reeducation camp for immediate remedial training, Comrade.
17) Does your inability to answer that question have anything to do with the card game Mao?
Now, now, that would be telling!
18) Why are you answering in red text?
When the seagulls cry, there are no survivors. (Also, you probably should leave the red text to the mod.)
19) Should I check with the mod prior to claiming in order to make sure that I'm not risking a modkill?
It couldn't hurt... (especially not with a mod who has been known to be trigger-happy about these things)
20) I'm dead and town. Why am I showing up in green on the dead list?
Tradition. (On MafiaScum green usually means townie and blue usually means neutral or SK.)
21) Why are you saying that these are the Frequently Asked Questions for Mind Screw Mafia when this is Mind Screw Salvation Mafia?
Maddening amount of rules that are available, to look through. But one can hardly be surprised.
Quote from Game1 Mafia Scum »
<0> Game-specific rule: The first rule is that I cannot tell you any of the other rules.
The rest of the rules (invisible so long as the Godfather ability is active):
<0> I am the Mod thy God. If a dispute arises, my decision is final. That said, I am not infallible - if I make a mistake or you have a question, please inform me of the problem (preferably via PM or bold text) and I will correct it.
<1> This is a game. I hope that you have fun. In return, I ask that you not have your fun at the expense of the other players in this game (in other words, don't be a jackass). Repeated or extreme violations of this rule will result in replacement or modkill.
<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts, etc. Please, use your common sense! <2> If there is a conflict between a role and the rules, the role wins. <3> Claiming that another player is your scumbuddy will result in a modkill.
<4> Quoting private communications (role PM, mason conversations, etc.) or pretending to do the same will result in a modkill. Paraphrasing, however, is not only acceptable but encouraged unless I explicitly say otherwise.
<5> You may not talk with other people about this game outside of the thread (but see Rule 2).
<6> This game will have both a vote count and a FoS (Finger of Suspicion) count. All players will have 1 vote and an unlimited number of FoS'es (but see Rule 2)
<6a> In a Normal game, the FoS count will have no effect on the game other than breaking voting ties at deadline. Theme games make no such guarantee.
<7> To help the game run smoothly, votes and FoS'es should be made in bold text, and use the format Vote: XXXX and FoS: XXXX, respectively. An unvote and/or unFoS is required to remove a vote or FoS; to unvote or unFoS, please use the format Unvote: XXXX or UnFoS: XXXX.
<8> If a player has a majority of votes, that player is lynched and cannot be unvoted. You may talk during twilight unless I state otherwise.
<9> Each game day will begin with a negotiable deadline of 2 weeks in place. At the end of each week, if I find the activity level in the game acceptable and the week does not end with the deadline, then I will extend the deadline by one week, to a maximum of twice the original deadline (a maximum of 4 weeks); the maximum deadlines are not retractable.
<10> At deadline, the player with the most votes is lynched. In the case of a tie, the player with the most FoS'es will be lynched.
<11> You may elect to No Lynch any number of times during the course of the game. In order to No Lynch, a majority of living players must be vote no lynch. (To vote No Lynch, please use the format Vote: No Lynch. FoS'es for No Lynch will not be counted.)
<12> Don't drink and post, lest ye receive Public Humilitation.
<13> Each game night will last approximately 4 real-life days (~96 hours) unless stated otherwise.
<14> When you die, stop posting. You may make a single "Bah!"/"Frak you!"/etc. post in the thread. You may not include game content in this post. In addition, once you are dead, please do not discuss the game with anyone other than the Mod until the game is over, as this makes the mod's life easier.
<15> Please try to post at least once every 96 hours, or inform me if this is not possible. If you are prodded, then you will need to post something (a simple "/prodded" will suffice if you're short on time) within 96 hours or you may be replaced.
<15a> If you have limited access, then please post to this effect, either in V/LA or in the thread. If I prod you despite you declaring V/LA status, call me on it and I will be duly embarrassed.
<16> Players may only use one special ability per day/night cycle (but see rule 2)
<17> This game will start on Day 1 after all players have confirmed (by PM).
<18> Okay, that's enough formal-sounding stuff. Good luck, have fun!
Azreal are you trying to remove anyone from the game?
Also can I vote Taredas or do I need to go through the charade of actually voting him to figure this out?
I am doing my research right now. The shards are nothing more than my play things. You have one opportunity to admit you lied about skipping the day. If one of us finds out that you were lying, I won't care if you are an innocent child cop, I will lynch you. This is your only opportunity: Did you actually influence day 1?
If by "influence day 1," you mean cause the game to skip the entire day 1 and night 1 phase, then the answer is yes.
Do you think I'm bluffing? Because your tone seems to indicate that you do.
@Everyone else
I think hans is my biggest town read right now.
Can you explain why?
Something about the way Ghosting responded to Hawk claiming makes me think Ghosting is scum. I don't even know how to convey it though... it just seems weird. Specifically posts #227 and #228 though.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I think he's most likely town, based on his reads, thought processes, as well as how he reacted to tom (I reacted the same way in a couple of my past games and was called scum even though I was just mad because I was town, lol).
plus i have the benefit of my role PM, but y'all dont. this is super interesting.
and more or less clears DV in my mind. having a member of mafia that cant be voted for is a whole new level of bastardry i suspect later is better, but the idea of you kingmaking taredas after a lynch is fully hilarious barn this post might be worse than anything tapping has said.
i did the bolding. those totally go well together
i need to think about if this could be bussing do i? i have solidly zero opinion on half the playerbase.
and now we get to tapping:
within the quotes, i kept him in bold and me in...not bold
do you disagree? i dont want to dump on hans, but like... he is
and no, i take a lot of notes. if i had lies to keep track of, i would. you dont get to ask over and over why i think hans is town and then completely dismiss the 3 other players i have as equally town. avoiding the question? you asked me what game i read with hans in it and i answered?
i even linked it so you can read it if you want (i highly suggest it, but not for the hans part)
im not gonna go through it again and pbpa it. im not saying i have some ironclad townread of hans (youre saying that) but i think hes fairly likely to be town because ive seen his willingness to put himself out there as town and just blurt whatever hes got. hans is sort of like a much less active me in that sense. weird you didnt respond to this part. no, i provided town motivation multiple times. sharing information IS town motivated.
sure he could do it as scum too. it would be a solid next level play.
but frankly i havent been enough impressed with hans to see that as a scum play from him. ok this is getting ridiculous well, my motivation is catching scum. uh, yeah. thats what i just said...
im saying youre different now yeah. its not a rule.
its just what you do as town. were not talking about rules, were talking about behavioural patterns i mean, it makes some sense. if nacho is being truthful i can get myself confirmed in thread. thats sweet.
but not as good as killing scum.
what are you talking about. if someone said something about hiding your alignment, quote it or something because i must have missed it, and it certainly hasnt been on my mind while reading your posts
Are you the co-mod of this game?
Are you also a player in this game?
Do you have full access to this game's setup?
...Is Taredas also playing in this game?
@Azrael or @Taredas
Why were these three players given fouls but nobody else?
unvote: prophylaxis
No Lynch
I'm starting to think "no lynch"/GOVERNOR might be the way to go.
@imab what tipped the scales for you for into thinking no lynch/governer is a good plan. im still on the fence
Is Taredas the Game Host or the Moderator?
Is Azreal the Game Host or the Moderator
What is the Weather Currently?
What channel is the TV turned to Currently?
Are there other Warning Lights?
How many votes until a player is lynched today.
What year is it?
How many Communists are currently in the game?
Is Seppel playing under any circumstance?
If I guess a rule correctly will you confirm the rule?
Can new rules be made?
Is Taredas or Azreal trying to destroy the Town Faction?
Who currently hands out fouls?
Have any "Strikes" happened?
Does Azreal of Taredas hand out the "Strikes"?
Does Azreal or Taredas hand out "Fouls"?
Does Azreal know what causes "Fouls"?
Am I asking questions correctly?
Usually I have some good scumreads by now. All of my scumreads have evaporated and I'm feeling lost. I'm pretty sure I'm missing a question or two. Otherwise I might have to resort to some generic catchall questions I've kept around that I hate having to use.
Tom is stuck in his typical "tunnel vision".
I'm not sure if Necarg's post is alignment indicative though.
DoTArchon's vote actually looks worse than Necarg but special mention goes to Huntzilla's "pre-planned defense" accusation in post 117. I didn't like that at all.
we're almost never gonna be sure about our first lynch. even the bravado i have for tappingstones right now, theres still like a decent chance hes town. i would put that number as low as 20%. a huge change from the default 70%, but thats still a thing.
@tapping/leuk/hans
that was me. i said something about wanting to hide your alignment. post 190.
@imab tunnelling is only bad if im wrong.
i know i tunnelled the ***** out of you last game we played together, but even you have to admit it was justified with the information i had. i absolutely knew you were lying, and you were.
@hawk: I think it's null. He's been doing this for the past couple of games, IIRC?
@TS: Other than Porcelain Waltz, I don't have experience with NPCs. I would recommend Mind Screw Mafia 1 for a good read, though.
I think imab is town. Unsure on scumreads, since so many people are talking about mechanics.
Anak not you Hans. Posting from my phone. I was trying to respond to post 196 from Anak.
While I have you here can you explain why you are suggesting that I said you are scummy. Tons of misrepresentations going around right now. I asked for the TOWN MOTIVATION because I want to know what it could be.
Hans give some reads. Is there a world where Tom is town? T/S list and whatnot.
I never said I wanted to hide my alignment. What's with the misreps Tom?
if this game was based on what people actually said...i cant even finish this sentence.
what i am advocating to end this Day (to be clear, this is probably a few weeks down the road) is everyone voting you, nacho pardoning you and having your alignment publicly revealed.
im gonna copy that and have it here again, this time in purple:
what i am advocating to end this Day is everyone voting tappingstones, nacho pardoning him, and having his alignment publicly revealed.
now sure, i think it should be you because youre probably scum. and i am the clear other choice if this is the way we decide to proceed.
lets be straight up here. we are gonna post a lot. we are just going to have the most interactions and thats how it is. (and i would love someone else to prove this false. i think everyone should be as active as me. but i get it)
but why i want it shouldnt matter to you if you know youll be revealed town. this is the thing youve been against.
Tom are you drunk? I have never shown any reservation against that.
But here's the thing Tom, we are going to vote who we think is scum. You dont get to make it a me versus you thing. I don't think there is any chance I get run up for a mislynch here.
My play is straight forward and aimed at solving the game. Others see this.
You on the other hand are playing erratic and not trying to solve the game. Giving out town reads like oranges slices at a kids soccer match. Your attacks against me dont have any substance.
We are anxiously awaiting the Hans "easytown read" tells that you mentioned earlier. Which posts (in the game you didnt even play in) give you the easy town read? Spoiler alert Tom was lying.
How towny is it for someone this early in the day to say the lynch must be between him and one other person? Does it make any sense that Tom has already stopped trying to solve the game?
if others see you trying to solve the game, i'd love to hear from them.
not that i think thats a problem by the way. i havent exactly given you the time and space to figure anything out. but i dont think you have anything to solve anyway. erratic? i think ive been pretty consistent for quite some time.
youre also the second person to make this handing out town reads argument. back it up.
the only people i recall townreading specifically are DV, hans, bur, and gj. id hardly call that "like oranges (sic) slices at a kids soccer match" (which is a great line btw. kudos) you wanna take this one past tom? its not specific posts. its hans in his entirety that im basing this on. i dont even want a lynch today. i want a publicly revealed cop shot (terminology credit: GJ)
and how have i stopped? is it my fault that the rest of you and necarg's buddies havent done anything overtly scummy yet?
Scum slip there Tom? You have been adament that Im 80% to be scum. Now we have you on the record saying "havent done anything overtly scummy".
You are really having a hard time keeping your story straight old sport!
you most certainly have.
"you and necargs buddies" and I quote. Does you not refer to me? Who else are yiu talking to?
If Necarg is a scum target then why arent you persueing him? Just casting aqusations at him, it just doesnt feel like you are trying to figure anything out.
Almost playing like a neutral who doesnt know what to do so comes across as newb scum. Strange...
the rest of the scum team hasnt done anything overtly scummy yet. you and necarg have.
would you have preferred "the buddies of you and necarg"? because that seems way clunkier to me but i guess it doesnt leave room for this misunderstanding.
i did think that was pretty clear based on context though.
and i called a necarg post scummy and he hasnt been here since. dont worry, ill come back around to him.
he certainly hasnt posted enough to be sure, but yeah hes my second candidate right now.
i think everyone else would appreciate if this didnt just turn into a conversation between the two of us.
if you decide to comment on the rest of my post, ill respond tomorrow.
It really can be. White knighting can be as well. I rather do wish that you'd left my comment for Tapping to respond to instead of jumping in - reactions from people are one of the best tools we have at this point.
Followup: the last thing that I see you saying about Tapping was this:
Given that you don't have a strong read on Tapping, why did you decide to defend him?
Unfortunately my notes are at home on my other computer. IIRC, I have a couple posts of his noted as not reflecting well on him, and nothing specifically noted as redeeming. I'll get back to you tonight with specifics.
Also, for the record, I do not yet believe him to be scum - just more likely scum than anyone else, and so most deserving of my vote so far.
Well, you don't know that he can't be voted for at all - we only know that he can't be voted for right now. Also, have you read the name of the game you're currently playing?
Why?
Well, doubting the wisdom of crowds goes with the second part of what I said - that townie-Nachomamma is likely to make a better decision than the group of us as a whole. My point, which I stand behind, is that I want the use of Nacho's ability to be his choice, and not anyone else's. My worry is that subordinating his decision to the town will result in (1) less information about Nacho, and also (2) less information about the town as a whole. I think people are likely to be lazy about their rationales if they know that they are choosing a player to be revealed, instead of one to kill, and that'll colour our reads going forward.
Outdated Mafia Stats
From inheritance, I recall that the main computer being functional had a great deal to do with the rule-toggling role being functional or not. The Seer was tied into the storyline, some extra flavor scenes, and might have had something to do with enabling some investigative roles, IIRC. The Kindergarten class did absolutely nothing aside from figure into some end-scene flavor.
Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.
No. At least, not right now.
Not in the traditional sense.
I'm not allowed to answer that. (I think I'm not allowed to answer that? Either I'm not allowed to answer that, or I'm not allowed to discuss...something closely related to that question.)
I can't answer that. Period.
The only of these I can answer for you is that my objective is NOT to destroy the town faction.
7hawk77, why did you not acknowledge Ghosting's request for you to wait on your claim in post 162? Did you miss it, or choose not to respond?
Claiming was my personal choice and I think it helps the town more to get information like this out in the open.
Outdated Mafia Stats
@Tom: 1) I mentioned 5 or so posts where you either straight up called people town or made comments that implied they were town. You're welcome to check them again if you need, I made sure to reference the posts so it'd be easy to verify.
2) Out of curiosity, how much Mafia have you played? Do you have your past games linked anywhere so I can check some out?
3) Doesn't a publicly revealed shot alongside a no lynch only hurt the town? We would then be giving scum a free night to kill as well as a confirmed town player for them to get rid of. It provides us with no information, and it's already so early on. As far as I see it, that would only give the scum a really easy early game. With that in mind, I've played almost exclusively basics, so correct me if I'm wrong.
4) If you aren't certain that TS is scum (you have a 20% uncertainty, and have also said he isn't overtly scummy), why are you trying to get him lynched so quickly? We have plenty of time and a LOT going on right now, as well as a lot of players who have barely said anything.
@Hawk: Seconding Rob, did you not see my request? We really didn't need scum to be getting this much information so early, at least not without some kind of discussion beforehand.
@Prophylaxis: Can you tell me why you think imab is town? All I saw was that you said he felt town, but you didn't let us know why.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I get that you didn't care, but all I asked for was a little bit of discussion. You couldn't have at least said: I don't care, does anybody else care if I claim? Can you tell us how this is beneficial to the town in any way? Can you tell us how this information helps us, and doesn't just help "confirm" you as town?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Tom: If Hans had a role that gave him the ability to skip a day and a night (no net gain/loss for either alignment), don't you think he would use it? Why wouldn't he claim using it as scum?
As long as we are agreed. Because if I thought for a split second you were planning on only pushing lynches you wanted, and the rest of us were along for the ride.....
You would be dead where you stand.
*Closes eyes*
Your response seems to have us convinced that you might be sincere. I believe you for what it is worth, but have zero knowledge of mind screw games. But I have friends who do.
I think it is far too early to call either. Neither of which feel super scummy, but neither have really put out that much. Bur seems busy, but I want to see how he follows up.
I am doing my research right now. The shards are nothing more than my play things. You have one opportunity to admit you lied about skipping the day. If one of us finds out that you were lying, I won't care if you are an innocent child cop, I will lynch you. This is your only opportunity: Did you actually influence day 1?
Hans explained this. I read it the exact way he meant it.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
As I have said before, and will say again. It is most definitely not the second day, in which case I am not here.
Unvote Vote RobRoy
Vote Count kind sir
The thing is, I don't see this as helping the town. You have told us that, among the rules we cannot see, there may or may not be one that says that roles can break the game rules. That's barely information of any kind.
Are you referring to players in general doing this, or TS in particular? If the latter, is there an example game you can provide me? This is my first game back in a while, so there are a lot of people I don't have metagame reads on at all.
(Although I just noticed Gentleman Johnny's sig. Apparently there's one more player in the game that I'm familiar with than I thought!)
@tom/TS: What are your thoughts on the playerbase besides both of you? Most of the thread has been just you two dunking (hi GJ!) it out thus far and I want to see your (behavioral) thoughts on other people.
Gut says Ghosting and RobRoy are town, and I don't want to no-lynch. When I review later in the day I'll see hawk's alignment.
excuse me if youve already answered this, but
what day is it, d_v.
unrelated, but
i still dont really think tapping is scum, but the more tom talks the more i think tom might just be overexcited town.
unvote for now because i want a better read on them both and no lynch seems better than a mislynch
Please explain how "we didn't need the scum getting this much information so early" knowing that. A.) This rule might not even exist in this game, it's just a possibility and B.) Why do you think this is actually useful to the scum team more so than town?
@Tom
Hey tom. You enjoying your this game so far?
@Everyone else
I think hans is my biggest town read right now.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Outdated Mafia Stats
-4 of them (38, 40, 60, 73) are me calling hans town.
-48 "i love where bur's head is at." is implying bur is town, a natural reaction to agreeing with someone.
-88 "it pretty awesome how quickly we caught scum in this game. i thought it would be much harder." which doesnt fit your thesis at all
-125 "good job so far hunt. keep it up" can be read as me thinking hunt is town, but was really me trying to get tapping to answer his question.
so yeah. that aint hardly "He calls almost everyone town"
2) this is my 4th game, all in the last couple months. no links, but predator, classic, and stargate (in progress).
3) it hurts us less than mislynching imo. and gives us information on nacho as well as the not-lynched player
4) are you sure youre reading my posts? he IS overtly scummy, i dont want to end the day yet, its impossible to be certain yet i mean the only reason he would claim it as scum is for the town credit/wifom.
so yeah, its possible. its just more likely to come from townhans. most people are still null.
DV i like even better with AZ throwing shade
i have warm feelings towards bur, gj, and hans.
hawk and nacho im getting there.
you and leuk i have the tiniest inkling that says town, but it isnt much.
jobie is the player i most want to hear more from. we have *history*
ghosting im feeling aggressively neutral on.
robroy and necarg are just scummy enough to make me uncomfortable being on a wagon with them of course! this persona is fun to be.
Hey tom you enjoying your game thus far?
I must have screwed something up while phone posting.
Outdated Mafia Stats
I find it interesting that as soon as I post that what you did wasn't beneficial to the town, you start to call me suspicious and that I was fear mongering by saying we should at least discuss you claiming before you do. Isn't there a term for this? I forget the name but I know there was a term for when people start saying you're scum/scummy in response to another playing questioning them, or calling them scum, etc. Anyway, can you explain how that is fear mongering?
Is that the only reason you dislike me?
Do you think I'm scum (maybe even worthy enough to be voted for)?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
This sounds a lot like "I'm not going to say I think they're town yet, but I won't say they're scum yet either. Let me just fencesit some more while I see what other people think of that opinion as well as the players themselves.
Anyone disagree?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Since I asked the question first, can you answer it? I'd prefer to have questions answered rather than deflected with a question on myself. I have no problem answering, but please give me the same honor. What benefit do you gain by not discussing?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Also, Hawk, please tell me how you explicitly saying you don't care and that you were just thinking about yourself at all helps the town. Who is more than one player.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
@GJ: What are your reads on the game? (Sorry if I missed this, but quickly checking the thread didn't allow me to find any).
I want to Hunt to start posting. I want to confirm/deny my suspicion of him.
@Tom: Why do you think Rob is scum?
@Nacho: Why is Necarg town? Want to let me in on this one?
Hawk revealed nothing that was already public.
On my phone, but the general idea is:
Probably scum:
You
Suspicious of:
7hawk77
Necarg
No read either way:
Nacho
Anak
Probably town:
Hans
Prophylaxis
leukovirus
Bur
Will update if needed when I'm back on computer, in case I forgot anything.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
It looks like I made a mistake Comrades.
Maddening amount of rules that are available, to look through. But one can hardly be surprised.
Azreal are you trying to remove anyone from the game?
Also can I vote Taredas or do I need to go through the charade of actually voting him to figure this out?
Do you think I'm bluffing? Because your tone seems to indicate that you do.
Can you explain why?
Something about the way Ghosting responded to Hawk claiming makes me think Ghosting is scum. I don't even know how to convey it though... it just seems weird. Specifically posts #227 and #228 though.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I think he's most likely town, based on his reads, thought processes, as well as how he reacted to tom (I reacted the same way in a couple of my past games and was called scum even though I was just mad because I was town, lol).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1