Hey, I'm here! Hello! I am going to start rereading Tomorrow after FNM, so expect to see me then.
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My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
Votecount 1.4
The farther he penetrated onto this island, the darker it became. Ruin was covering up the tiny sun, and Kelsier began to miss even the faint glow that had permeated the phantom mists in the city. Soon, he was traveling in what seemed like twilight
Is that votecount incorrect or is something weird going on?
votecount
These unaligned pairs proph is creating seem bad to me, just because people interact aggressively with each doesn't preclude them from being scum buddies. I pretty sure I read a game where someone (seppel maybe?) bussed a scum buddy so aggressively, that no-one thought they could be buddies. He rode his town status to win the game.
What is referencing these pairs before they are relevant meant to achieve?
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Life is throwing me more curve balls so I am a little out of it mentally and will be lurking more than normal till this gets resolved. D1 for me is always a crap shoot anyway so hopefully things will work out by the time it ends and I can get back into game mode.
That said I am a bit perturbed that we already have two claims made without any real wagons being formed. People are just throwing information out there and I can't see why town would do that. JD is just asking for a NK with his double voter claim while Proph seems to be trying to live past N1. Neither gambit seems that thought out. Probably means they are both town though as I can't see a scum mindset attempting such bad plays.
Still not convince Mindreaver is what he says he is, as shinen stated though there are probably good reasons for why I am feeling this way so I am going to back burner it for now.
Killjoy on the other hand I am going to pursue. His T/S list is just plain bad to me. I know KJ is a better player than that and he should have seen what I did in regards to JD and Proph. To lump them both in his scum pile looks to me like he is trying to set up a mislynch while keeping himself clean by voting for his third option.
Vote Killjoy
I actually read this the same way Hunger did when I first saw it. After I realized what you meant, I thought about it more.
You have Proph and JD as town because of their claims, right?
As was pointed out, JD claimed to have no vote today. Any speculation that he is also a double-voter is just that, speculation. So, THAT doesn't make him town.
Now Proph. You say he's just trying to survive past d1 with his claim, and that I should agree with you. There's more than one way of seeing his claim.
N1 PGO is a perfect claim if, say... he was a godfather who needed to charge his ability to appear town N1 for instance. His claim doesn't auto absolve him.
And I voted one of the three I found scummy. No specific reason for Rhand over Proph. JD had some votes on him, so I wasn't gonna lay my vote on him until at least after he answered me.
killjoy has confidence he can read me. not sure what to think of that based on the two games hes been in with me, both of which i was town, and 1 of which he lynched me for the sweet N1 loss.
It's less to do with past experiences with you and more to do with playstyle and personality.I haven't looked at your scumgame too thoroughly yet, but I recall seeing things that fit what I think about you.
I feel like I will be able to read you, if not now, after a bit.
1. What have you liked about Shinen's posts, and how does placing down the vote come from a town mindset?
2. What posts from tom did you dislike, and how did you come around on him being town? Walk me through the entire process here.
3. Why you think jd is scum, despite being unable to vote?
1.I feel like he's trying to solve the game. And I assume you meant why him NOT placing down the vote is from town. Firstly, he said that he "sort of didn't like jd for town" which is not the same thing as a scum read. Maybe he was leaning scum on him, or maybe he just had some scum vibes that hadn't fully manifested yet. Either way, saying he's scum for not laying a vote on him doesn't make much sense. He didn't say he had a scum read. As far as why that makes him town, his "uh, no. I'm not doing that" attitude feels like townie indignation toward being asked to do something he knows he shouldn't be doing.
2. The tone in his earlier posts felt off (The not-random no lynch vote, his next post doing kind of a shady half-answer). Like I keep mentioning, Tom is open and emotive. I thought he might have been hiding something. He was also a bit more agressive than I remember him being.Then he started asking more questions and posting in a way I felt was more heart-on-his-sleeve and more like the Tom I saw in the town games I read from him.
3.I pointed out contridictions in his play in my recent post. I also do not think him not having a vote auto-towns him.
Math makes more sense there, because it was a heavily mechanic-based Micro, not a mafia game based on behavioral analysis.
That's not a respose to my point. I said some PEOPLE do it. Maybe JD is one of them.THAT was my point.
People should use their vote, regardless of what time of Day it is. When I see people who aren't using their vote if they are scumreading somebody, it raises my hackles.
Not everyone does that though. You seem to be projecting things that you do on other people and scumreading them for it.
That wasn't wagon analysis, though? Those were just quick thoughts on three players: Hunt, tomsloger, and me. If you look closer in the post he explains his mindset and reasoning with Mindreaver's post and Shinen's post.
Why do you think it's scummy to just accept the vote? If he's scum and actually has a vote (and claims that he's voteless) then that would resolve itself. I backed off of jd due to his claim rather than waiting for him to "prove" it because it's incredibly easy to prove, and he would never claim voteless when he is scum (and has a vote).
I'm not seeing it. And as to why just accepting it is scummy, it's because it requires no critical thinking, which you as town would be doing.
See my response above.
You're referring to the @shinen at the beginning of this post?
I didn't want jd to get up to L-1, though I was perfectly fine with him being at L-2 for a split second.
How would he get to L-1 if no one was willing to vote him at L-3?
I think you're being hung up on something similar to tom: You're bringing up a lot of questionable points against me (and I can fully explain the reasoning behind them), but none of the things you explain add up to a scum mindset.
Nice attempt to discredit me and tom in the same little statement there. I can't speak for tom but that's not what I'm doing.
I do agree that Tordeck is likely town due to his behavior.
KJ: why didn't you add that you're always paranoia about me in that post?
You explain how you read Proph as scum and Hunger as town, but not how you always think I am scum.
Catching up on the rest of the game. Life is hectic.
Nowhere near as bad as Proph. I can change my mind on you easily be comparison if you start acting town. Proph's town game just looks like scum to me most games.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KJ I don't understand your first question.
Misrep is misrepresentation of what someone has said. For example I talked about No Lynch and asked a few questions but mindreaver? said that I was pro NL when I had no opinion either way and was trying to form one. He misrepresented my position to make whatever argument he was making at the time.
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
So I was gonna spend half of my free afternoon on Mafia and the other half in getting my BF's secret birthday party organized, but I'm stuck in Antwerp with a dead car battery
I'll have to postpone the catch-up now or I'll deliver a sucky Bday party
I feel the same way about both. Tordeck is just rubbing me the wrong way. And while I agree somebody so blatantly hostile would be auto-suspect and there I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me... it's also not helpful. It's obstructionist if anything.
In addition, I don't love the attack on KJs writeup. Besides loving me (the only confirmed town in my mind), he has suspicion for both JD and Proph. Which are scum in my mind. I was willing to let proph live, hoping that somebody would just call his bluff and confirm one way or the other tonight. But that's a long shot. Similarly with JD, his claim will probably be easier to prove after he's done charging. The claim itself was shortsighted if he is scum, so I'd be willing to let it play out. Either he has some power tomorrow that he uses for town purposes, or he's a dead man walking IMO.
I have very few leads on that 3rd town. Like KJ, I was suspicious of Rhand, but I don't have anyting concrete. After reading a but more of Huntz's games, it seems that D1 he's hard to read. So I'll back off there a bit. Very interested in necarg posting, so clearly not ready to lynch before we've got some input from him/her/whoever.
As far as proph, I count 7 people (one without a vote though) who have either voted him, or listed him on their scum lists right now. That's gotta be enough to at least see where we fall.
Gah. Post got eaten. I'm too busy at work this morning so it will have to wait until later for something more substantial.
In short,
I am enjoying the back and forth with Proph. Just a couple more things I want to address/follow up on.
Tordeck is a real pleasure. I also didn't like a couple of his replies which I want to address.
KJ - RE:Proph's replies to you, I already addressed and pushed him on a few points from it, so I think it should go without saying that I didn't love it?
Oh snap, look at that. It's more of a function of me posting early morning without coffee (clearly meant 3rd scum, and "therefore" instead of "there", and probably other things), than anything else.
you mean the read youre surest about in the entire game?
seems legit
Shinen is my sole scumread, but he's not the read I was "surest" about in the entire game at all. That would be reserved for one of my townreads. I want to keep grilling Shinen's slot, however, so I can be more certain about his alignment.
Nice job smearing me, though!
Quote from tomsloger »
can we kill proph yet?
Try your best to. I will try my hardest to make you stop being useless and try to get you to lynch actual scum. Who will come out on top?
Quote from jd »
These unaligned pairs proph is creating seem bad to me, just because people interact aggressively with each doesn't preclude them from being scum buddies. I pretty sure I read a game where someone (seppel maybe?) bussed a scum buddy so aggressively, that no-one thought they could be buddies. He rode his town status to win the game.
I agree, when people interact aggressively it doesn't. That's why I put a "Maybe?" when I thought about the Hunger and Tordeck unaligned pairs, since I have seen scum aggro other scum before. The unaligned pair I'm most sure about is the Hunger and killjoy one, though.
Quote from jd »
What is referencing these pairs before they are relevant meant to achieve?
Just a reminder to myself if either one flips scum. I find them handy to have.
---
I guess I'll keep responding to killjoy's points, but I greatly know from past experience that killjoy isn't the type of player to budge down once he starts scumreading me. In light of that, this will be the last time I respond to him in-depth before I start posting memes or something in response to his points.
Quote from killjoy »
1.I feel like he's trying to solve the game. And I assume you meant why him NOT placing down the vote is from town. Firstly, he said that he "sort of didn't like jd for town" which is not the same thing as a scum read. Maybe he was leaning scum on him, or maybe he just had some scum vibes that hadn't fully manifested yet. Either way, saying he's scum for not laying a vote on him doesn't make much sense. He didn't say he had a scum read. As far as why that makes him town, his "uh, no. I'm not doing that" attitude feels like townie indignation toward being asked to do something he knows he shouldn't be doing.
Your first point is all semantics. If I have someone as a Not Town read, then I don't think they're town and they are possible scum, in my eyes. Your approach may be different. Shinen's approach may be different!
I disagree on your second point being townie indignation, but let's move past that point since you're never going to agree with me.
Quote from killjoy »
2. The tone in his earlier posts felt off (The not-random no lynch vote, his next post doing kind of a shady half-answer). Like I keep mentioning, Tom is open and emotive. I thought he might have been hiding something. He was also a bit more agressive than I remember him being.Then he started asking more questions and posting in a way I felt was more heart-on-his-sleeve and more like the Tom I saw in the town games I read from him.
Alright, all of this makes pretty clear-cut sense.
Quote from jd »
3.I pointed out contridictions in his play in my recent post. I also do not think him not having a vote auto-towns him.
Yet another thing we will never agree about, since I think that a scum without a vote basically makes that scum member useless.
Quote from killjoy »
That's not a respose to my point. I said some PEOPLE do it. Maybe JD is one of them.THAT was my point.
Quote from killjoy »
Not everyone does that though. You seem to be projecting things that you do on other people and scumreading them for it.
I'll lump these in into one point.
Regardless if some people use math to figure out the game or not vote people they're scumreading, there is no denying that there are scum motivations behind either of these actions. With using math to figure out the game, it provides a convenient out for scum to avoid scumhunting/questioning/commenting on other people's behavior. There is a tangible benefit for scum to not vote people they're scumreading, as it makes them non-commital and does not subject them to the brutal reality of wagon analysis. You can't dismiss scummy behavior (as I see it) by saying "oh, that's his normal playstyle".
Quote from killjoy »
I'm not seeing it. And as to why just accepting it is scummy, it's because it requires no critical thinking, which you as town would be doing.
Keep on scumreading me for this lousy point, then. I instantly accepted jd's vote because it resolves itself, but if you can't see that, then.
Quote from killjoy »
How would he get to L-1 if no one was willing to vote him at L-3?
jd proposed that he wanted to get up to L-1, then he would have him vote himself to prove his voteless claim. I argued against that, since I didn't want someone up at L-1 so quickly.
Quote from killjoy »
Nice attempt to discredit me and tom in the same little statement there. I can't speak for tom but that's not what I'm doing.
I'm not discrediting you; it's just that both of you are /so obviously wrong/ and I'm trying to defend myself the best I can here.
killjoy: If my town game looks to you like scum this game, reflect back on all of the times you've scumread me (Winterfell, Porcelain Waltz, Celestial, I'm sure there are more games). What makes this different? Or similar to Celestial, I guess. I know it's insanely hard for me to change your mind, but I hope this somehow makes you think a bit harder and makes you realize you are sadly wrong, again, and that you should move onto more fruitful pursuits.
-----
@Mindreaver: What are your thoughts on my alignment? Don't barn others' reasoning. Read my posts and come to your own conclusion.
Quote from Hunger »
I am enjoying the back and forth with Proph. Just a couple more things I want to address/follow up on.
I am enjoying the back and forth as well! I am quite interested in the other things that you want to address, and I'll do my best to explain myself fully.
Still waiting on Necarg to catch up before I begin interrogating him.
im fighting an overwhelming urge to just decide the rest of the scum team by looking at proph interactions.
mindreaver and kj stand out as being treated differently, but even once we have the proph scumflip we dont really know what that means.
Oh snap, look at that. It's more of a function of me posting early morning without coffee (clearly meant 3rd scum, and "therefore" instead of "there", and probably other things), than anything else.
You could hand wave away any slip with that defense. Oh I said something stupid must be because I had no coffee, silly me.
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Oh snap, look at that. It's more of a function of me posting early morning without coffee (clearly meant 3rd scum, and "therefore" instead of "there", and probably other things), than anything else.
You could hand wave away any slip with that defense. Oh I said something stupid must be because I had no coffee, silly me.
I'm not trying to say I wouldn't suspect somebody, I'm just explaining what happened. It also doesn't make much sense that a scum!mindreaver would NEED to "run up" exactly three town people. Whereas finding exactly 3 scum is pretty much the goal.
im fighting an overwhelming urge to just decide the rest of the scum team by looking at proph interactions.
mindreaver and kj stand out as being treated differently, but even once we have the proph scumflip we dont really know what that means.
Enjoy wasting your time, then, since the premature interaction analysis will be fruitless when I flip town!
Quote from D_V »
Vote Huntz
Let's get this train rolling boys.
What "train" do you speak of? What is your view of my alignment, and what do you think of the people scumreading me?
I don't understand what that pretty much is doing in there.
Also scum!mindreaver knows he needs to appear town and thus needs to appear to be hunting 3 scum. He looks for 3 townies to paint with the scum brush but accidentally types 3 town because he is thinking about players he knows are town. i.e. He scum slips.
Explain to me why the word town is on your mind from a town mindset if you are strictly talking about your scum reads?
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
im fighting an overwhelming urge to just decide the rest of the scum team by looking at proph interactions.
mindreaver and kj stand out as being treated differently, but even once we have the proph scumflip we dont really know what that means.
Enjoy wasting your time, then, since the premature interaction analysis will be fruitless when I flip town!
Quote from D_V »
Vote Huntz
Let's get this train rolling boys.
What "train" do you speak of? What is your view of my alignment, and what do you think of the people scumreading me?
The one I'm starting. Choo Choo get on!
They voting you cause they got the dumbz.
Because players who follow wagons to follow wagons and see how they turn out are scum. Also players who misrep others are probably scum as well. This whole game so far is throwing accusations then going my bad change vote.
not gonna lie to you guys. im not super invested in this game yet.
maybe its playing three games at once.
maybe its that other than proph, i dont really think anyone is scum. even the lean scum on jd is a little forced.
maybe its because atoga disappeared, tordeck was never here, necarg hasnt caught up, and rhand is basically v/la.
im pretty satisfied that hunger is town. i liked shinen, but ive literally never been right about him*.
kj has made me nod my head in agreement several times. huntz and DV seem like their regular selves.
mindreaver and jd have said some scummy *****, but you can see the town mindset if you squint hard enough.
like, thats the whole playerlist. what do we do now if it isnt lynch proph?
serious question. because the only answer i can think of is run up a lurker and hope for the best. and thats just so boring.
Is the 25% chance of lynching a scum worth the 75% chance of being down a townie, particularly if that townie is a PR?
made even worse by Day 1 lynches usually being a lurker or something. like, if theres actually someone we want to lynch, sure. but that doesnt usually happen
This gave me the impression that you were pro no lynch over lynch a lurker. Hence the question.
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Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Is the 25% chance of lynching a scum worth the 75% chance of being down a townie, particularly if that townie is a PR?
made even worse by Day 1 lynches usually being a lurker or something. like, if theres actually someone we want to lynch, sure. but that doesnt usually happen
This gave me the impression that you were pro no lynch over lynch a lurker. Hence the question.
yes, im still against lynching a random lurker.
i wasnt super serious about no lynching, but killing tordeck/rhand/atoga would be a huge copout.
you, on the other hand, seem better than nothing if it can't be proph.
Is the 25% chance of lynching a scum worth the 75% chance of being down a townie, particularly if that townie is a PR?
made even worse by Day 1 lynches usually being a lurker or something. like, if theres actually someone we want to lynch, sure. but that doesnt usually happen
This gave me the impression that you were pro no lynch over lynch a lurker. Hence the question.
yes, im still against lynching a random lurker.
i wasnt super serious about no lynching, but killing tordeck/rhand/atoga would be a huge copout.
you, on the other hand, seem better than nothing if it can't be proph.
Votecount 1.4
The farther he penetrated onto this island, the darker it became. Ruin was covering up the tiny sun, and Kelsier began to miss even the faint glow that had permeated the phantom mists in the city. Soon, he was traveling in what seemed like twilight
I am in literally no mind set to give a vote count. I would like to say I try to be an avtive mod, but occasionally even sober will mess up a count. I would like to thank you all for being so civil with me and respectable with fixes. I don't know how I miss some, but will continue to provide support. Thank you all for your patience. Votecount in give or take, 8 hours. No one is lynched yet.
I feel completely useless this game, but my life is too hectic to catch up right now, and somehow I always have the idea I shouldn't react to stuff without being caught up first, which makes it an endless loop of not playing at all.
So to break the loop: is there any stuff I should respond to? I'm just going to jump in and participate again and catch up on what I missed when I have time.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Currently ISO'ing everyone. Will post later today will full reads.
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My thoughts are with the friends and family of the Orlando Shooting victims and with the rest of the LGBTQA+ community.
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
Necarg, please don't acknowledge this in any way whatsoever.
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
As rare as twinborn were, a twinborn with the same feruchemic and allomantic metals were able to compound their metal. By storing a little bit of power, swallowing the ring, and burning in with allomancy, these people were capable of power that matched even the Lord Ruler.
Explain to me again what information we would get from a proph lynch? What interactions would be telling after he flips?
well, you would learn that im town but apparently you all know that anyway.
other than that, ive been actively trying not to make those associations until he flips. if i happen to be wrong, i dont want to spend the Day doubling down on it.
So, I am scum because I have used my vote in a way you don't agree with...
But is it because of WHO I was voting? The way in which I voted them? Exactly what way SHOULD I vote people?
I am trying to decide if you are just townie who believes their vote or scum conveniently parking their vote on someone they think they can mislynch.
Explain to me again what information we would get from a proph lynch? What interactions would be telling after he flips?
well, you would learn that im town but apparently you all know that anyway.
other than that, ive been actively trying not to make those associations until he flips. if i happen to be wrong, i dont want to spend the Day doubling down on it.
Ok.
What is the downside to letting Proph, as scum, have more time to create these interactions with others, thus damning or clearing more people, aside from just you? That reads as if you are only concerned on saving your own skin... why not save others too....?
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
The farther he penetrated onto this island, the darker it became. Ruin was covering up the tiny sun, and Kelsier began to miss even the faint glow that had permeated the phantom mists in the city. Soon, he was traveling in what seemed like twilight
Prophylaxis (1) - tomslager,
jdisawesomesauce
Necarg (1) - Prophylaxis,
Killjoy (1) - Tordeck
Tordeck
tomsloger
Mindreaver (1) - Huntzilla
Rhand (1) - Killjoy
Atogholic
Hunger
D_V
Huntzilla (2) - Rhand, Mindreaver
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
(your VC is wrong GJ )
seems legit
im channelling tordeck right now.
growl.
can we kill proph yet?
votecount
These unaligned pairs proph is creating seem bad to me, just because people interact aggressively with each doesn't preclude them from being scum buddies. I pretty sure I read a game where someone (seppel maybe?) bussed a scum buddy so aggressively, that no-one thought they could be buddies. He rode his town status to win the game.
What is referencing these pairs before they are relevant meant to achieve?
Also, what is a misrep to you?
@Hunger: How did you like Proph's response to me?
I actually read this the same way Hunger did when I first saw it. After I realized what you meant, I thought about it more.
You have Proph and JD as town because of their claims, right?
As was pointed out, JD claimed to have no vote today. Any speculation that he is also a double-voter is just that, speculation. So, THAT doesn't make him town.
Now Proph. You say he's just trying to survive past d1 with his claim, and that I should agree with you. There's more than one way of seeing his claim.
N1 PGO is a perfect claim if, say... he was a godfather who needed to charge his ability to appear town N1 for instance. His claim doesn't auto absolve him.
And I voted one of the three I found scummy. No specific reason for Rhand over Proph. JD had some votes on him, so I wasn't gonna lay my vote on him until at least after he answered me.
It's less to do with past experiences with you and more to do with playstyle and personality.I haven't looked at your scumgame too thoroughly yet, but I recall seeing things that fit what I think about you.
I feel like I will be able to read you, if not now, after a bit.
1.I feel like he's trying to solve the game. And I assume you meant why him NOT placing down the vote is from town. Firstly, he said that he "sort of didn't like jd for town" which is not the same thing as a scum read. Maybe he was leaning scum on him, or maybe he just had some scum vibes that hadn't fully manifested yet. Either way, saying he's scum for not laying a vote on him doesn't make much sense. He didn't say he had a scum read. As far as why that makes him town, his "uh, no. I'm not doing that" attitude feels like townie indignation toward being asked to do something he knows he shouldn't be doing.
2. The tone in his earlier posts felt off (The not-random no lynch vote, his next post doing kind of a shady half-answer). Like I keep mentioning, Tom is open and emotive. I thought he might have been hiding something. He was also a bit more agressive than I remember him being.Then he started asking more questions and posting in a way I felt was more heart-on-his-sleeve and more like the Tom I saw in the town games I read from him.
3.I pointed out contridictions in his play in my recent post. I also do not think him not having a vote auto-towns him.
That's not a respose to my point. I said some PEOPLE do it. Maybe JD is one of them.THAT was my point.
Not everyone does that though. You seem to be projecting things that you do on other people and scumreading them for it.
I'm not seeing it. And as to why just accepting it is scummy, it's because it requires no critical thinking, which you as town would be doing.
You're referring to the @shinen at the beginning of this post?
How would he get to L-1 if no one was willing to vote him at L-3?
Nice attempt to discredit me and tom in the same little statement there. I can't speak for tom but that's not what I'm doing.
I do agree that Tordeck is likely town due to his behavior.
Nowhere near as bad as Proph. I can change my mind on you easily be comparison if you start acting town. Proph's town game just looks like scum to me most games.
No, obviously you are a vote stealer and you stole my vote that was on you!
Rhand stahp.
Misrep is misrepresentation of what someone has said. For example I talked about No Lynch and asked a few questions but mindreaver? said that I was pro NL when I had no opinion either way and was trying to form one. He misrepresented my position to make whatever argument he was making at the time.
I'll have to postpone the catch-up now or I'll deliver a sucky Bday party
I feel the same way about both. Tordeck is just rubbing me the wrong way. And while I agree somebody so blatantly hostile would be auto-suspect and there I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me... it's also not helpful. It's obstructionist if anything.
In addition, I don't love the attack on KJs writeup. Besides loving me (the only confirmed town in my mind), he has suspicion for both JD and Proph. Which are scum in my mind. I was willing to let proph live, hoping that somebody would just call his bluff and confirm one way or the other tonight. But that's a long shot. Similarly with JD, his claim will probably be easier to prove after he's done charging. The claim itself was shortsighted if he is scum, so I'd be willing to let it play out. Either he has some power tomorrow that he uses for town purposes, or he's a dead man walking IMO.
I have very few leads on that 3rd town. Like KJ, I was suspicious of Rhand, but I don't have anyting concrete. After reading a but more of Huntz's games, it seems that D1 he's hard to read. So I'll back off there a bit. Very interested in necarg posting, so clearly not ready to lynch before we've got some input from him/her/whoever.
As far as proph, I count 7 people (one without a vote though) who have either voted him, or listed him on their scum lists right now. That's gotta be enough to at least see where we fall.
unvote, vote proph.
unvote, vote proph
In short,
I am enjoying the back and forth with Proph. Just a couple more things I want to address/follow up on.
Tordeck is a real pleasure. I also didn't like a couple of his replies which I want to address.
KJ - RE:Proph's replies to you, I already addressed and pushed him on a few points from it, so I think it should go without saying that I didn't love it?
Scumslip. Looking for a third townie to run up as scum.
FOS: Mindreaver
Nice job smearing me, though!
Try your best to. I will try my hardest to make you stop being useless and try to get you to lynch actual scum. Who will come out on top?
I agree, when people interact aggressively it doesn't. That's why I put a "Maybe?" when I thought about the Hunger and Tordeck unaligned pairs, since I have seen scum aggro other scum before. The unaligned pair I'm most sure about is the Hunger and killjoy one, though.
Just a reminder to myself if either one flips scum. I find them handy to have.
---
I guess I'll keep responding to killjoy's points, but I greatly know from past experience that killjoy isn't the type of player to budge down once he starts scumreading me. In light of that, this will be the last time I respond to him in-depth before I start posting memes or something in response to his points.
Your first point is all semantics. If I have someone as a Not Town read, then I don't think they're town and they are possible scum, in my eyes. Your approach may be different. Shinen's approach may be different!
I disagree on your second point being townie indignation, but let's move past that point since you're never going to agree with me.
Alright, all of this makes pretty clear-cut sense.
Yet another thing we will never agree about, since I think that a scum without a vote basically makes that scum member useless.
I'll lump these in into one point.
Regardless if some people use math to figure out the game or not vote people they're scumreading, there is no denying that there are scum motivations behind either of these actions. With using math to figure out the game, it provides a convenient out for scum to avoid scumhunting/questioning/commenting on other people's behavior. There is a tangible benefit for scum to not vote people they're scumreading, as it makes them non-commital and does not subject them to the brutal reality of wagon analysis. You can't dismiss scummy behavior (as I see it) by saying "oh, that's his normal playstyle".
Keep on scumreading me for this lousy point, then. I instantly accepted jd's vote because it resolves itself, but if you can't see that, then.
jd proposed that he wanted to get up to L-1, then he would have him vote himself to prove his voteless claim. I argued against that, since I didn't want someone up at L-1 so quickly.
I'm not discrediting you; it's just that both of you are /so obviously wrong/ and I'm trying to defend myself the best I can here.
killjoy: If my town game looks to you like scum this game, reflect back on all of the times you've scumread me (Winterfell, Porcelain Waltz, Celestial, I'm sure there are more games). What makes this different? Or similar to Celestial, I guess. I know it's insanely hard for me to change your mind, but I hope this somehow makes you think a bit harder and makes you realize you are sadly wrong, again, and that you should move onto more fruitful pursuits.
-----
@Mindreaver: What are your thoughts on my alignment? Don't barn others' reasoning. Read my posts and come to your own conclusion.
I am enjoying the back and forth as well! I am quite interested in the other things that you want to address, and I'll do my best to explain myself fully.
Still waiting on Necarg to catch up before I begin interrogating him.
DV, rhand, kj, huntz
mindreaver, atoga, tordeck
jd, proph
im fighting an overwhelming urge to just decide the rest of the scum team by looking at proph interactions.
mindreaver and kj stand out as being treated differently, but even once we have the proph scumflip we dont really know what that means.
You could hand wave away any slip with that defense. Oh I said something stupid must be because I had no coffee, silly me.
I'm not trying to say I wouldn't suspect somebody, I'm just explaining what happened. It also doesn't make much sense that a scum!mindreaver would NEED to "run up" exactly three town people. Whereas finding exactly 3 scum is pretty much the goal.
Let's get this train rolling boys.
What "train" do you speak of? What is your view of my alignment, and what do you think of the people scumreading me?
Also scum!mindreaver knows he needs to appear town and thus needs to appear to be hunting 3 scum. He looks for 3 townies to paint with the scum brush but accidentally types 3 town because he is thinking about players he knows are town. i.e. He scum slips.
Explain to me why the word town is on your mind from a town mindset if you are strictly talking about your scum reads?
The one I'm starting. Choo Choo get on!
They voting you cause they got the dumbz.
Because players who follow wagons to follow wagons and see how they turn out are scum. Also players who misrep others are probably scum as well. This whole game so far is throwing accusations then going my bad change vote.
maybe its playing three games at once.
maybe its that other than proph, i dont really think anyone is scum. even the lean scum on jd is a little forced.
maybe its because atoga disappeared, tordeck was never here, necarg hasnt caught up, and rhand is basically v/la.
im pretty satisfied that hunger is town. i liked shinen, but ive literally never been right about him*.
kj has made me nod my head in agreement several times. huntz and DV seem like their regular selves.
mindreaver and jd have said some scummy *****, but you can see the town mindset if you squint hard enough.
like, thats the whole playerlist. what do we do now if it isnt lynch proph?
serious question. because the only answer i can think of is run up a lurker and hope for the best. and thats just so boring.
*: lol. its 0 for 1 and that 1 was saw
I feel like it was...
This gave me the impression that you were pro no lynch over lynch a lurker. Hence the question.
i wasnt super serious about no lynching, but killing tordeck/rhand/atoga would be a huge copout.
you, on the other hand, seem better than nothing if it can't be proph.
LUWL WHAT?
Why would you lynch JD?
its not so much that i want to lynch jd. the only person i WANT to lynch is proph.
but i actively dont want to lynch everyone besides those two.
What about JD makes him more acceptable than others?
I am afraid this is where I am at as well
Does anyone have any questions for me? I do not have a lot to say about this game either without a reread or actual questions to respond to.
So.
PTAP...
I just noticed this GJ but I was voting Tom, not Mindreaver. I never voted Mindreaver.
Anyway
Unvote
Vote Rhand
I would rather put it here for the time being.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
So to break the loop: is there any stuff I should respond to? I'm just going to jump in and participate again and catch up on what I missed when I have time.
hey, you know who would be a great information lynch?
proph
Explain to me again what information we would get from a proph lynch? What interactions would be telling after he flips?
The Family
Check out my Newborder Peasant Cube here! http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/37467
True Name Mafia (Win),Clan Contest IX Mafia (Win), Bravely Default Mafia (Loss), BOTAS (loss), BfV (Loss), Ace Attourney (loss)
Rules Advisor before they were eradicated
As rare as twinborn were, a twinborn with the same feruchemic and allomantic metals were able to compound their metal. By storing a little bit of power, swallowing the ring, and burning in with allomancy, these people were capable of power that matched even the Lord Ruler.
Prophylaxis (2) - tomslager, Mindreaver
jdisawesomesauce
Necarg (1) - Prophylaxis,
Killjoy (1) - Tordeck
Tordeck
tomsloger
Mindreaver (1) - Huntzilla
Rhand (2) - Killjoy, Huntzilla
Atogholic
Hunger
D_V
Huntzilla (2) - Rhand, D_V
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
other than that, ive been actively trying not to make those associations until he flips. if i happen to be wrong, i dont want to spend the Day doubling down on it.
Get on the Hunts Wagon. Chooo Chooo.
lol
Yeah you are totes scum.
So, I am scum because I have used my vote in a way you don't agree with...
But is it because of WHO I was voting? The way in which I voted them? Exactly what way SHOULD I vote people?
I am trying to decide if you are just townie who believes their vote or scum conveniently parking their vote on someone they think they can mislynch.
Ok.
What is the downside to letting Proph, as scum, have more time to create these interactions with others, thus damning or clearing more people, aside from just you? That reads as if you are only concerned on saving your own skin... why not save others too....?