I will end up rereading this game but I will be pretty sad if Grimclaw ends up being scum here.
DoT, the reason why you always ended up as a lynch after Killjoy in my mind is because you didn't really provide reads outside of me-town/Iso-scum Rhand-town/Mallorean-scum and none of those reads were really revolutionary; I'd expect your reads to have a bit more depth to them and I'd expect there to be a bit more oomph behind them.
I'm guessing Iso died over me because he was less likely to be protected than I was (he had the lowest volume out of me, Grimclaw, DoT).
I'll get a full reread done tomorrow, but I don't expect my side of the decision to take longer than a weekend (if that), so DoT, if you are town, now is time for you to haul major ass to save the game.
My notes, as far as I got before crashing last night:
@Nacho: [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=17]Post 17[/url] is the reason why I was thinking Rhand was town. I'm the Ascetic, so when he posted about the Ascetic claiming and being the first Day 1 lynch it got my attention. Scum!Rhand would know the Ascetic is town and my flip would look bad for him. Look at the response he got when he put forward the idea, no one believed it was a good one. Town!Rhand wanted to lynch the Ascetic since, if I was scum, it would remove an untargetable scum from the game, and as town you wouldn't have PR’s wasting their shots on me. It made more sense from a town perspective than a scum perspective to me. I couldn't really get into it though without claiming.
This brings me to my asking Iso if he was the Ascetic, the way he proposed his plan in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=3]posts 3 and 4[/url] made me think he was soft-claiming Ascetic, thought I'd catch him in a false claim. Then realised that game is setup so that no-one could fakeclaim. Didn't think it through properly, and once again couldn't properly explain without claiming.
Speaking of claims, one of you two is the Doctor. Who did you protect last night and why?
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=24]Posts 24 through 27,[/url] of the two of you I'm leaning more towards Nacho being town here. Scum only got two roles, if they're lucky they got 2 power roles and no vanilla's. Any power role that did survive to day 2 could give useful information, and there's a 50%+ chance that those reports would be from town. Grimclaw's insistence that the PR’s are useless shows a lack of critical analysis of the setup. We know now that they pulled Bodyguard and neither of the roles that could actually out them.
I stand corrected, Grimclaw points out to Rhand in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=50]50[/url] that PR’s only have a 25% chance of being picked up scum. And this is straight after his comments about PR’s not fulfilling any use in this game..
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=71]@Grimclaw: why the request to Ghosting to ask you questions?
@Nacho: [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=17]Post 17[/url] is the reason why I was thinking Rhand was town. I'm the Ascetic, so when he posted about the Ascetic claiming and being the first Day 1 lynch it got my attention. Scum!Rhand would know the Ascetic is town and my flip would look bad for him. Look at the response he got when he put forward the idea, no one believed it was a good one. Town!Rhand wanted to lynch the Ascetic since, if I was scum, it would remove an untargetable scum from the game, and as town you wouldn't have PR’s wasting their shots on me. It made more sense from a town perspective than a scum perspective to me. I couldn't really get into it though without claiming.
This brings me to my asking Iso if he was the Ascetic, the way he proposed his plan in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=3]posts 3 and 4[/url] made me think he was soft-claiming Ascetic, thought I'd catch him in a false claim. Then realised that game is setup so that no-one could fakeclaim. Didn't think it through properly, and once again couldn't properly explain without claiming.
Speaking of claims, one of you two is the Doctor. Who did you protect last night and why?
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=24]Posts 24 through 27,[/url] of the two of you I'm leaning more towards Nacho being town here. Scum only got two roles, if they're lucky they got 2 power roles and no vanilla's. Any power role that did survive to day 2 could give useful information, and there's a 50%+ chance that those reports would be from town. Grimclaw's insistence that the PR’s are useless shows a lack of critical analysis of the setup. We know now that they pulled Bodyguard and neither of the roles that could actually out them.
I stand corrected, Grimclaw points out to Rhand in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=50]50[/url] that PR’s only have a 25% chance of being picked up scum. And this is straight after his comments about PR’s not fulfilling any use in this game..
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=71]@Grimclaw: why the request to Ghosting to ask you questions?
@Nacho: Post 17 is the reason why I was thinking Rhand was town. I'm the Ascetic, so when he posted about the Ascetic claiming and being the first Day 1 lynch it got my attention. Scum!Rhand would know the Ascetic is town and my flip would look bad for him. Look at the response he got when he put forward the idea, no one believed it was a good one. Town!Rhand wanted to lynch the Ascetic since, if I was scum, it would remove an untargetable scum from the game, and as town you wouldn't have PR’s wasting their shots on me. It made more sense from a town perspective than a scum perspective to me. I couldn't really get into it though without claiming.
This brings me to my asking Iso if he was the Ascetic, the way he proposed his plan in posts 3 and 4 made me think he was soft-claiming Ascetic, thought I'd catch him in a false claim. Then realised that game is setup so that no-one could fakeclaim. Didn't think it through properly, and once again couldn't properly explain without claiming.
Speaking of claims, one of you two is the Doctor. Who did you protect last night and why?
Posts 24 through 27, of the two of you I'm leaning more towards Nacho being town here. Scum only got two roles, if they're lucky they got 2 power roles and no vanilla's. Any power role that did survive to day 2 could give useful information, and there's a 50%+ chance that those reports would be from town. Grimclaw's insistence that the PR’s are useless shows a lack of critical analysis of the setup. We know now that they pulled Bodyguard and neither of the roles that could actually out them.
I stand corrected, Grimclaw points out to Rhand in 50 that PR’s only have a 25% chance of being picked up scum. And this is straight after his comments about PR’s not fulfilling any use in this game..
@Grimclaw: why the request to Ghosting to ask you questions?
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=87]Post 87:[/url] Iso has both Grimclaw and myself in his ‘would lynch’ pile. By the time he flipped he was town reading both of us.
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=123]Post 123[/url] could be a teammate pushing his partner to be more involved?
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=164]Post 164[/url] makes me paranoid of Nacho, his comments about having never mislynched Rhand or seen Rhand mislynched in a game they've been in together is an odd statement to make.
NaG replaces in at Post 171 and, in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=172] lists Grim as his top townread, puts Iso/Nacho in the middle for being able to fake town well as scum and then lists me as the scummiest player before voting for Ghosting.
Gotten up to the Rhand lynch, will finish tomorrow. I'm off to bed.
This weekend kicked my ass more than it should have, I should be posting at a normal rate by tomorrow, although I won't have the time to do the big huge reread I'm planning on doing.
An angry spectator shoots a bunch of the lamp posts in your quiet little town. I DIDNT COME HERE TO WATCH NO TUMBLEWEEDS don TUMBLIN ROUND HERE. I came to witness sum right gud killin, and some blood spill. YEEAEH BOY.
The deadline has been accelerated. The day will end August 1st at 11:59 pm.
This weekend is very likely to be a "catch up in all mafia games and other sort of stuff" type of weekend; setting aside tomorrow in order to make that possible.
Post 87: Iso has both Grimclaw and myself in his ‘would lynch’ pile. By the time he flipped he was town reading both of us.
Post 123 could be a teammate pushing his partner to be more involved?
Post 164 makes me paranoid of Nacho, his comments about having never mislynched Rhand or seen Rhand mislynched in a game they've been in together is an odd statement to make.
NaG replaces in at Post 171 and, in 172 lists Grim as his top townread, puts Iso/Nacho in the middle for being able to fake town well as scum and then lists me as the scummiest player before voting for Ghosting.
Gotten up to the Rhand lynch, will finish tomorrow. I'm off to bed.
179 With Rhand lynched Nacho votes for NaG and thanks him for the hammer. Nacho/(NaG/Mal) interactions need more attention. Possibly aligned? Looking back at my notes 123 gave me a similar vibe.
188 Again, NaG has Grim as his top townread but this time he says this about Iso and Nacho, who he had previously listed as townish but good at faking it….
Quote from NaG »
Nacho and Iso should never be lynched Day 1.
194 Another mention of town!Grim from NaG. He also keeps trying to push me as scum if(when) Rhand flips town even while trying to start a terrible Ghosting wagon.
196-198 Nacho’s responses to NaG's posts. Calls every one of NaG's reads bad except the town clear of Grimclaw. Also appears to have figured out my role. His last line in 198 reads like someone who knows we haven't caught the scum team. This doesn't fit with his earlier mention that he's never been wrong about Rhand's alignment before.
199NaG admits that his Ghosting case was “crappy”, another mention of Nacho and Iso never being day 1 lynches, and Killjoy and I are both terrible lynches for Day 1 but should both be lynched Day 2.
206 A lot of possible Day 2 scenarios laid out, all of which seem to come down to a Nacho/Grimclaw/3rd player scenario, and in each case it's never Grim(with a hard town read of Nacho) who gets the final vote. No one knew at that time that Ghosting would be mod-killed, and I think scum!Nacho takes out Iso as the player most likely to catch him. Today then goes Killjoy>Me>Ghosting. Everyone was settled on Killjoy being the last scum after NaG's lynch and Ghosting, despite changing his read of me at the end was heavily suspicious of me in the early game. Once it comes down to Grim/Nacho/Ghosting, Nacho has already admitted to who he'd vote for. @Grimclaw: If the game had come down to that final scenario, where do you think you'd have voted?
I'll wait for Nacho to return from V/LA and respond before casting my vote, but for now it'll be for him.
I'm working my catchup now. It's very likely that my approach will be overly nitpicky and that I will probably end up producing many more words than necessary; this approach is simply to push through one of my inherent biases (I tunnel hard and it's pretty difficult for my reads to change in general). If you are around, please post & engage; I have big catchups to do elsewhere, so if you're looking for real time interactions with me, now is the time.
Grimclaw's #21 is the first major push of the game and pushing mallorean who looked decent early game (in my opinion). His attack was based on the apparent contradiction between Mallorean's criticism of Iso's plan which was based on openly directing actions weakening the town since it gave scum easier fakeclaims if they had powerful roles and a later criticism of Rhand's plan which was based on scum not having significant incentive to lie. As far as the criticism itself goes, I don't strongly agree; I understood where Mallorean was coming from with both criticisms, but it's a reasonable enough line of attack to adopt. It seems like a strange move to put your partner (who was a strong early presence) on their back foot immediately, but nothing that seemed completely ridiculous; what makes it a truly positive point for me is the fact that the line of reasoning is one that would be hard to back out of immediately.
Grimclaw - why were you concerned about this contradiction?
On the other hand, Malloran's 28 is more along the lines of what I'd expect to see as an early distancing vote. Mallorean has a choice to vote out of three people; either all three are townies or there are two townies and a scumpartner in the bunch and he votes the person who has a chance of being his scumpartner. This is the type of reasoning that is pretty easy to back out of, so while I wouldn't go so far as to call it a negative, it's certainly not a point in DoT's favor.
Mallorean's 43 finds him moving off DoT pretty quickly, wordlessly. One of the things that I'm thinking of now and will probably press later in my catchup once I reread the game is that NaG stayed away for a while from making a concerted push on DoT and that seemed odd to me based on the circumstance.
There's a difference between "Scum don't need to lie, so a plan whose primary benefit is catching scum lying is bad" and "Scum won't ever lie, so we don't need to hedge against them lying". Also, while my current valuation for this setup is "Scum probably shouldn't lie outside of a couple specific gambits", I'm not naive enough to think that everybody else in this game, most of whom I haven't played with and all of whom come from a completely different meta than what I'm used to, will have the same valuation I do. Scum could disagree with me on this, scum could have the roles for "a couple specific gambits", or scum could just be bad at open setups without set alignments for roles.
Sure, but how does one go from an in depth paragraph on how fakeclaims make Rhand's plan bad, to your next interaction with Rhand pointing out that fakeclaims are unlikely. Your view there didn't so much evolve as just become a different species altogether, whilst arguing against the same thing in both cases.
But your post 35 seems to continue this weird stradling of two in my opinion contradicting viewpoints, so at least you're consistently inconsistent, if that makes sense? -_- unvote
If I read context properly, Mallorean's first criticism was aimed towards Iso while the second was aimed towards Rhand - is that correct or am I looking at something different from you here?
Part of what I liked about you asking Iso if he was the Ascetic was because it would be a pretty ballsy move for scum to openly fish for a power role they wanted to out in that way; now that you've outed as the Ascetic, it makes much less sense. Why do you think that Iso would claim Ascetic D1 as scum when the setup is open and he would know that he would get counterclaimed by town? What was the point of that question?
The reason you thought Rhand was town was because no one would do something as scummy as pushing for a No Lynch Day 1 was. Killjoy did the same thing; why didn't you have doubts that he might be town?
I don't like that you used Iso's plan against him even while being fully aware that two of your strong townreads at the time (me and Grimclaw) were endorsing the same plan (and in fact, had pushed it harder than Iso had). Your explanation for this was that you were townreading us and thus you thought we were coming from a good place while it wasn't as obvious that Iso was; that's the very definition of confirmation bias and I don't think that your Iso read had the depth required to be stuck in that kind of tunnel that early.
It seems like the main heart of your early case against Iso was that he was pushing a case on Rhand, who you thought was town (and who you thought was town simply because he pushed for a no lynch). My concern here is the same with my concern on Iso; it's page 2, it's unnatural that you have reads this strong especially when the only thing Rhand did that looked town in your opinion was push for a No Lynch; it reeks of having inside information.
Ok, here's where my head was at on that. I'd split either based on how many lynches people want Day1
0: Killjoy, Rhand
1: mal, Ghosting, DoTA
2: Nacho, grimclaw, Iso
-OR- based on how many days people want the game to be:
2: Nacho, grimclaw, mal
3: Killjoy, Rhand, Ghosting, DoTA, Iso
I sincerely doubt that both scum would decide to push No-lynch here.
I also think that the other two people pushing for only 2 day phases are both town, especially because the arguments against it have amounted to "But but but the PRs, guys?" I really don't see how scum deal with town controlling 5 kills in an 8 person game. Easier to stall and try to keep it from actually happening than give in.
I'm curious to hear both of your opinions on this, with the hindsight knowledge that mallorean was scum.
Also, DoTA: thoughts on Nacho's post that immediately follows that piece? (post 123) And then I realised your garbled quotes in your last posts hid the fact that you'd just done so. -_-
Continuing...
I don't get anything significant out of it. It's an early sign of mallorean setting up Rhand/Killjoy as unaligned pairs, perhaps (which implies that both are town, hindsight is 20/20), but otherwise I think that it's very likely that he probably just thought that having the game last 2 days instead of 3 is optimal (which is something I fully agree with).
The thing that keeps going through my mind for the past couple of days is: "who would most want Iso dead?" I've sort of settled on an (unsatisfying) answer, but I found the thought process I went through interesting enough that I'm curious what you guys think on that topic?
My initial worry was that the person who had the most motive to kill Iso was you - I was obviously completely sold on you being town and was not a viable kill for you as scum, and killing anyone except for Iso seemed like a bit of a poor move unless you had a PR tell elsewhere.
However, DoT had an early push on Iso that he kind of shifted away on, Iso very clearly wasn't going to lynch either of us over DoT and would have been very adamant in defending us, so there's quite possibly a stronger motive to kill him there but really it's not much.
In the end, I don't think it really points significantly to either of you; Iso was probably killed because either A) he was the least likely to be protected out of the GIN triumvirate, or B) because you had me completely fooled and wanted to take a shot at a strong player (although you would have been in a much better position to take a less risky shot like Ghosting). What are your thoughts on why Iso died?
There's a nice steady rain coming down; smells great and is incredibly relaxing. Good weather for catching up on mafia and trying to be thoughtful while I do it.
DoT's comparison of Rhand and Iso in 68 is that Rhand has stuck to his guns with the few posts that he's made, whereas Iso spent a lot of time on setup speculation (if you find this scummy, why not push mallorean for it?) and calling Rhand's plan bad (which is something everyone has done).
I also gave him a lot of lenience when this happened, but saying "Are you the Ascetic?" is not the question you ask when you're trying to question what you're viewing as a contradiction between two posts.
@DoT - Why were you reading Killjoy as scummy D1? How was his approach different than Rhand's?
Nacho, do you think that DoT not reading my posts is indicative of his alignment? His issues with me are very easily answered upon careful reading of my posts, so I'm a little baffled that he hasn't tried to correct his tunnel. Do you think this is an experience thing, or what? As townDoT, I feel like I'd personally be a bit more excited if I felt like I caught scumIso; but his attention feels diverted, if you know what I mean - almost as if he doesn't actually believe his read on me. I just feel like he should be engaging me more if he thinks I'm actually scum.
The premise of this argument - that DoT would have read Iso's posts closer if he was town - is not one that I entirely agree with, but the fact that DoT isn't engaging him very hard at all and that's concerning is a good one. A good bit of what's allowed me to clear DoT in past games with him was his strong, unshakeable paranoia; in Classic, he expressed frequent doubts on me even while I was close to confirmed town and I had protected the ***** out of him, and his his first newbie game on MS, he tunneled a universal townread pretty incessantly close to LyLo. His push here on Iso doesn't really have that same bite.
Grimclaw's 110 is a good look for him, in my opinion. While I don't exactly think that his paranoia on me would be incredibly difficult to fake, it adds depth to his read on me, and being paranoid of people who are townreading you hard seems pretty natural to me from townies but a bit rarer as scum.
Grimclaw's 148 seems like a strong point in his favor; he brings focus to mallorean when focus is not on him at all (the only heat he'd gotten at that point was me telling him to scumhunt more), and when there were a lot of mislynches still available. This is a setup that punishes bussing early pretty heavily and I think Grimclaw was in a position to push along a Killjoy mislynch and take the game into 4-2 tomorrow which would have been a pretty great position for scum. This is a strong point for Grimclaw.
I don't think DoT brings up any significant points in his PBPA on Mallorean other than "setup speculation, no scumhunting" which had already been brought up explicitly by three other players at that point.
Two strong interactions by NaG that both point towards DoT as the last scum; 172 paints a vision of a DoT-Rhand team while proposing to lynch Ghosting today since Ghosting as the best lynch for scum not partnered with Rhand; I find this to be a strong point of partner interaction. Slight distancing (since he's calling him possible scum), but based on reasoning that he will be able to back off easily later. If he was setting up for a mislynch, I don't see why he would hinge all of DoT's scumminess on being scum with Rhand (he clearly was willing to attack players without a case based on his Ghosting push alone). I find it difficult that out of his three easy mislynches (DoT/Ghosting/Killjoy) he would completely shut out two of his options because they were "probably rhand partners".
Secondly, him "guessing" that DoT was the Ascetic looks incredibly suspicious from my end; sure, he mentioned the Ascetic role early, but again, I don't see scum having the brass to rolefish a townie that incredibly hard but could see the two (or one of them) setting something up like this to serve as a positive interaction for DoT.
The interaction from NaG that looks good from Grimclaw is the one where he has Grimclaw as what's basically his only townread; I don't see two scumpartners do something like that often at all.
Re: DoT's catchup:
The explanation for reading Rhand as town (the fact that he proposed lynching the Ascetic when he knew the Ascetic was town) seems... odd, but is not something I think is outside of DoT's town range. The real thing that bothers me about that reasoning in particular is that it didn't really seem like DoT was struggling to hide information re: his Rhand read (he never tried to fight for Rhand town, he didn't really protect him when he was getting lynched), and the fact that he gave a completely different explanation initially bothers me. Maybe he thought to make something up as a townie at the time, but it seems unlikely that there would be no signs of annoyance or no vague allusions to having additional reasoning or anything if he was actually telling the truth there.
I don't understand why Grimclaw believing the investigative PRs (not all PRs) were useless.
I don't think the rest of DoT's catchup was significant; probably just getting a little tired of catching up at this point, but I don't really think that there's anything that's going to convince me not to vote DoT at this point.
My biggest concern with DoT is his lack of depth in his reads; his gameplay looks like he's moving from one suspect to another, there's no real sign of genuine transition at all. The best example of his lack of depth is in his Iso read; he was originally reading Iso as scum because Iso was pushing on Rhand, who DoT was reading as town (even though DoT was apparently reading him as town for reasons no one else would be privvy to), and then suddenly he dropped his scumread on him because he apparently started a PBPA on Iso (even though he already did one pretty recently) and then realized he was town. His play as a whole seems robotic; push Iso, back off Iso, push mallorean. Push Grimclaw for these reasons, push Nacho for these reasons. There's no paranoia, there's nothing that looks like doubt, there's no emotional investments in reads.
The second piece of the case against DoT that I feel is significant is his interactions with NaG; NaG setting him up as a lynch if and only if Rhand was scum, NaG somehow very confidently calling out DoT as the Ascetic, whereas Grimclaw was NaG's only real townread and Grimclaw also brought the spotlight on mallorean when there was no real need to do so (and when doing so would trash his chances of winning significantly).
I mean, I'm aware of being a tunneler, but I don't really think there's anything that points to you over DoT in this situation.
I've done my reread. If you were scum, I don't think it's because I missed picking up on something or didn't pressure you enough; it would be because you played a pretty kickass game and you deserved the win.
What do you think that I've unreasonably given you a pass for? What do you think that I've unreasonably attacked DoT for?
It's also true that my catchup didn't really change anything revolutionary; more or less confirmed something that I already thought was true. But instead of just noting that, I'd like if you actually attacked the content of the thing; I did end up attacking DoT quite a bit in those bits and if I'm scum then I'm attacking a townie and so that's where the most alignment indicative information would be coming out.
Well played gents, sorry for not being around on the weekend. Our Harry Potter midnight launch on Saturday took a hell of a lot more prep and effort than I'd expected and I slept through most of yesterday.
As the game wraps up, the sun begins to set on the day as doTA, Nacho, and Grimclaw try to figure out the last member of the mafia. They all know that there are at least two townies left, otherwise why bother with such a charade. After Killjoy falls, attention turns to dota. After a large amount of discussion and daylight passed, the town knew what had to be done. doTA seemed to understand as well and held his head down as Nacho brought doTA to the noose, and Grimclaw pulled the lever....
doTArchon was Mafia Ascetic. Killjoy was Town Vanilla.
The town composed of Killjoy, Grimclaw, Nachomamma8, Ghosting, Iso, and Rhand win. Special thanks to not_a_gimmick for replacing in, and mod notes to come.
Good game guys, and apologies to town for getting modkilled; was awesome to see you guys pull through still with scum getting a free kill essentially. But lesson learnt that checking your PM recipients is very important.
Thanks to GJ for allowing me to still get the win though.
Was a pleasure towning with everyone; apologies for the delayed absence during LyLo, life kind of kicked all of my teeth out and I fell behind everywhere. I was the Doctor, I ended up protecting Grimclaw during our only night since he was my strongest townread and I figured that I'd be able to keep my paranoia on him to a minimum regardless of who else ended up making it to LyLo.
I did that think my LyLo cases were pretty skewed against DoT, but I also think there was just a lot more pointing to it being DoT over you, Grim; I did try to find reasons to make a case against you, but I couldn't really dig anything up. Was there anything that you thought I missed?
That was not the best position to replace in to, as I think it was already heading towards my lynch. I tried my best to tie myself to nachomamma/iso so my partner could play up that paranoia once I was gone.
I think dotarchon did pretty well, but ultimately nacho's innocent light shone through.
Great job grimclaw and nacho for being so very villagery.
I hope to play with you all again, under this account or another.
Someday I will reveal my identity. But I am not quite done with this playstyle yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Curiosity killed the cat. But for awhile, I was a suspect.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Sorry everybody for dropping off the face of the planet here and significantly hurting game health. In the end, signing up for this one was a mistake and my schedule punished me for it.
DoTA and NAG didn't deserve the fate I saddled them with.
That said, this setup felt very town favored as long as town was willing to lynch twice on Day1 and lynch through the rest on Day2. Getting 3 mislychnes in such a small game is pretty OP. I probably wouldn't play this setup again as is.
As soon as the game really started, it didn't look like we'd be able to beat any of the three of you in Final 3, and needed to chain lynch Killjoy, Rhand, Ghosting. Which, uh, I made kind of difficult.
Sorry everybody for dropping off the face of the planet here and significantly hurting game health. In the end, signing up for this one was a mistake and my schedule punished me for it.
DoTA and NAG didn't deserve the fate I saddled them with.
That said, this setup felt very town favored as long as town was willing to lynch twice on Day1 and lynch through the rest on Day2. Getting 3 mislychnes in such a small game is pretty OP. I probably wouldn't play this setup again as is.
Of note, I did consider playing this setup with 8 people, axing one of the vanillas. Maybe in retrospect, that should have happened, but I think you are ignoring the fact that the town had three mislynches, and no safe claims. Now, as it happens, the two two lynches both happened to be vanilla, but a doctor claim or a watcher claim were not get out of lynch free cards, like they would in any other game. With 8 or 9 people, the expectation would be for the town players to all play a strong game, but going with 8 players, they also have to play the set-up correctly, and on a time limit. This game was incredibly winnable for the scum, and it just so happened that the town played better in this instance. That said, there were a lot of things that could have gone wrong on the town side (not agreeing on a second lynch, more arguing on the set-up, not posting during a two week deadline). The Rhand mislynch was a good start, but I feel like the scum fell short in standing out as more townie.
I really wish I could play in this set-up myself. It really seemed fun, and I like the mechanics of a multi lynch system. The town can get more power, but it comes at the cost of flying blind on wagon analysis until the next day, in which the scum get to make at least one kill (and obviously, the scum know the alignment of the dead player(s). This set-up I do think leans town assuming even play skill, but I feel the game in is incredibly behavior/skill intensive that the better team should win most of the time.
I don't normally award MVPs for Micros, but I think everyone did a collective good job. dota got the first lynch out of the way (killjoy), but ended up just falling short at the end.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
@All: Why do you think Iso was the NK and not one of you two?
DoT, the reason why you always ended up as a lynch after Killjoy in my mind is because you didn't really provide reads outside of me-town/Iso-scum Rhand-town/Mallorean-scum and none of those reads were really revolutionary; I'd expect your reads to have a bit more depth to them and I'd expect there to be a bit more oomph behind them.
I'm guessing Iso died over me because he was less likely to be protected than I was (he had the lowest volume out of me, Grimclaw, DoT).
I'll get a full reread done tomorrow, but I don't expect my side of the decision to take longer than a weekend (if that), so DoT, if you are town, now is time for you to haul major ass to save the game.
@Nacho: [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=17]Post 17[/url] is the reason why I was thinking Rhand was town. I'm the Ascetic, so when he posted about the Ascetic claiming and being the first Day 1 lynch it got my attention. Scum!Rhand would know the Ascetic is town and my flip would look bad for him. Look at the response he got when he put forward the idea, no one believed it was a good one. Town!Rhand wanted to lynch the Ascetic since, if I was scum, it would remove an untargetable scum from the game, and as town you wouldn't have PR’s wasting their shots on me. It made more sense from a town perspective than a scum perspective to me. I couldn't really get into it though without claiming.
This brings me to my asking Iso if he was the Ascetic, the way he proposed his plan in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=3]posts 3 and 4[/url] made me think he was soft-claiming Ascetic, thought I'd catch him in a false claim. Then realised that game is setup so that no-one could fakeclaim. Didn't think it through properly, and once again couldn't properly explain without claiming.
Speaking of claims, one of you two is the Doctor. Who did you protect last night and why?
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=24]Posts 24 through 27,[/url] of the two of you I'm leaning more towards Nacho being town here. Scum only got two roles, if they're lucky they got 2 power roles and no vanilla's. Any power role that did survive to day 2 could give useful information, and there's a 50%+ chance that those reports would be from town. Grimclaw's insistence that the PR’s are useless shows a lack of critical analysis of the setup. We know now that they pulled Bodyguard and neither of the roles that could actually out them.
I stand corrected, Grimclaw points out to Rhand in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=50]50[/url] that PR’s only have a 25% chance of being picked up scum. And this is straight after his comments about PR’s not fulfilling any use in this game..
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=71]@Grimclaw: why the request to Ghosting to ask you questions?
@Nacho: [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=17]Post 17[/url] is the reason why I was thinking Rhand was town. I'm the Ascetic, so when he posted about the Ascetic claiming and being the first Day 1 lynch it got my attention. Scum!Rhand would know the Ascetic is town and my flip would look bad for him. Look at the response he got when he put forward the idea, no one believed it was a good one. Town!Rhand wanted to lynch the Ascetic since, if I was scum, it would remove an untargetable scum from the game, and as town you wouldn't have PR’s wasting their shots on me. It made more sense from a town perspective than a scum perspective to me. I couldn't really get into it though without claiming.
This brings me to my asking Iso if he was the Ascetic, the way he proposed his plan in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=3]posts 3 and 4[/url] made me think he was soft-claiming Ascetic, thought I'd catch him in a false claim. Then realised that game is setup so that no-one could fakeclaim. Didn't think it through properly, and once again couldn't properly explain without claiming.
Speaking of claims, one of you two is the Doctor. Who did you protect last night and why?
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=24]Posts 24 through 27,[/url] of the two of you I'm leaning more towards Nacho being town here. Scum only got two roles, if they're lucky they got 2 power roles and no vanilla's. Any power role that did survive to day 2 could give useful information, and there's a 50%+ chance that those reports would be from town. Grimclaw's insistence that the PR’s are useless shows a lack of critical analysis of the setup. We know now that they pulled Bodyguard and neither of the roles that could actually out them.
I stand corrected, Grimclaw points out to Rhand in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=50]50[/url] that PR’s only have a 25% chance of being picked up scum. And this is straight after his comments about PR’s not fulfilling any use in this game..
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=71]@Grimclaw: why the request to Ghosting to ask you questions?
@Nacho: Post 17 is the reason why I was thinking Rhand was town. I'm the Ascetic, so when he posted about the Ascetic claiming and being the first Day 1 lynch it got my attention. Scum!Rhand would know the Ascetic is town and my flip would look bad for him. Look at the response he got when he put forward the idea, no one believed it was a good one. Town!Rhand wanted to lynch the Ascetic since, if I was scum, it would remove an untargetable scum from the game, and as town you wouldn't have PR’s wasting their shots on me. It made more sense from a town perspective than a scum perspective to me. I couldn't really get into it though without claiming.
This brings me to my asking Iso if he was the Ascetic, the way he proposed his plan in posts 3 and 4 made me think he was soft-claiming Ascetic, thought I'd catch him in a false claim. Then realised that game is setup so that no-one could fakeclaim. Didn't think it through properly, and once again couldn't properly explain without claiming.
Speaking of claims, one of you two is the Doctor. Who did you protect last night and why?
Posts 24 through 27, of the two of you I'm leaning more towards Nacho being town here. Scum only got two roles, if they're lucky they got 2 power roles and no vanilla's. Any power role that did survive to day 2 could give useful information, and there's a 50%+ chance that those reports would be from town. Grimclaw's insistence that the PR’s are useless shows a lack of critical analysis of the setup. We know now that they pulled Bodyguard and neither of the roles that could actually out them.
I stand corrected, Grimclaw points out to Rhand in 50 that PR’s only have a 25% chance of being picked up scum. And this is straight after his comments about PR’s not fulfilling any use in this game..
@Grimclaw: why the request to Ghosting to ask you questions?
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=123]Post 123[/url] could be a teammate pushing his partner to be more involved?
[url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=164]Post 164[/url] makes me paranoid of Nacho, his comments about having never mislynched Rhand or seen Rhand mislynched in a game they've been in together is an odd statement to make.
NaG replaces in at Post 171 and, in [url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/forum-games/mafia/724368-blackout-mafia-day-2-fast-as-lightning?comment=172] lists Grim as his top townread, puts Iso/Nacho in the middle for being able to fake town well as scum and then lists me as the scummiest player before voting for Ghosting.
Gotten up to the Rhand lynch, will finish tomorrow. I'm off to bed.
The deadline has been accelerated. The day will end August 1st at 11:59 pm.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
This weekend is very likely to be a "catch up in all mafia games and other sort of stuff" type of weekend; setting aside tomorrow in order to make that possible.
174 Grimclaw’s read of me has improved and he's paranoid of Nacho.
176 Iso asks if he dies that Grim should trust his Nacho read.
175 and 178, NaG and Iso figured out my role.
179 With Rhand lynched Nacho votes for NaG and thanks him for the hammer. Nacho/(NaG/Mal) interactions need more attention. Possibly aligned? Looking back at my notes 123 gave me a similar vibe.
188 Again, NaG has Grim as his top townread but this time he says this about Iso and Nacho, who he had previously listed as townish but good at faking it….
194 Another mention of town!Grim from NaG. He also keeps trying to push me as scum if(when) Rhand flips town even while trying to start a terrible Ghosting wagon.
196-198 Nacho’s responses to NaG's posts. Calls every one of NaG's reads bad except the town clear of Grimclaw. Also appears to have figured out my role. His last line in 198 reads like someone who knows we haven't caught the scum team. This doesn't fit with his earlier mention that he's never been wrong about Rhand's alignment before.
199NaG admits that his Ghosting case was “crappy”, another mention of Nacho and Iso never being day 1 lynches, and Killjoy and I are both terrible lynches for Day 1 but should both be lynched Day 2.
204 Strong town post from Grimclaw.
206 A lot of possible Day 2 scenarios laid out, all of which seem to come down to a Nacho/Grimclaw/3rd player scenario, and in each case it's never Grim(with a hard town read of Nacho) who gets the final vote. No one knew at that time that Ghosting would be mod-killed, and I think scum!Nacho takes out Iso as the player most likely to catch him. Today then goes Killjoy>Me>Ghosting. Everyone was settled on Killjoy being the last scum after NaG's lynch and Ghosting, despite changing his read of me at the end was heavily suspicious of me in the early game. Once it comes down to Grim/Nacho/Ghosting, Nacho has already admitted to who he'd vote for.
@Grimclaw: If the game had come down to that final scenario, where do you think you'd have voted?
I'll wait for Nacho to return from V/LA and respond before casting my vote, but for now it'll be for him.
Grimclaw - why were you concerned about this contradiction?
On the other hand, Malloran's 28 is more along the lines of what I'd expect to see as an early distancing vote. Mallorean has a choice to vote out of three people; either all three are townies or there are two townies and a scumpartner in the bunch and he votes the person who has a chance of being his scumpartner. This is the type of reasoning that is pretty easy to back out of, so while I wouldn't go so far as to call it a negative, it's certainly not a point in DoT's favor.
Mallorean's 43 finds him moving off DoT pretty quickly, wordlessly. One of the things that I'm thinking of now and will probably press later in my catchup once I reread the game is that NaG stayed away for a while from making a concerted push on DoT and that seemed odd to me based on the circumstance.
If I read context properly, Mallorean's first criticism was aimed towards Iso while the second was aimed towards Rhand - is that correct or am I looking at something different from you here?
Responding to DoT's 62...
Part of what I liked about you asking Iso if he was the Ascetic was because it would be a pretty ballsy move for scum to openly fish for a power role they wanted to out in that way; now that you've outed as the Ascetic, it makes much less sense. Why do you think that Iso would claim Ascetic D1 as scum when the setup is open and he would know that he would get counterclaimed by town? What was the point of that question?
The reason you thought Rhand was town was because no one would do something as scummy as pushing for a No Lynch Day 1 was. Killjoy did the same thing; why didn't you have doubts that he might be town?
I don't like that you used Iso's plan against him even while being fully aware that two of your strong townreads at the time (me and Grimclaw) were endorsing the same plan (and in fact, had pushed it harder than Iso had). Your explanation for this was that you were townreading us and thus you thought we were coming from a good place while it wasn't as obvious that Iso was; that's the very definition of confirmation bias and I don't think that your Iso read had the depth required to be stuck in that kind of tunnel that early.
It seems like the main heart of your early case against Iso was that he was pushing a case on Rhand, who you thought was town (and who you thought was town simply because he pushed for a no lynch). My concern here is the same with my concern on Iso; it's page 2, it's unnatural that you have reads this strong especially when the only thing Rhand did that looked town in your opinion was push for a No Lynch; it reeks of having inside information.
Grimclaw
Nachomamma8
DoTArchon
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch. Deadline is still August 1st at 11:59 pm.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't get anything significant out of it. It's an early sign of mallorean setting up Rhand/Killjoy as unaligned pairs, perhaps (which implies that both are town, hindsight is 20/20), but otherwise I think that it's very likely that he probably just thought that having the game last 2 days instead of 3 is optimal (which is something I fully agree with).
My initial worry was that the person who had the most motive to kill Iso was you - I was obviously completely sold on you being town and was not a viable kill for you as scum, and killing anyone except for Iso seemed like a bit of a poor move unless you had a PR tell elsewhere.
However, DoT had an early push on Iso that he kind of shifted away on, Iso very clearly wasn't going to lynch either of us over DoT and would have been very adamant in defending us, so there's quite possibly a stronger motive to kill him there but really it's not much.
In the end, I don't think it really points significantly to either of you; Iso was probably killed because either A) he was the least likely to be protected out of the GIN triumvirate, or B) because you had me completely fooled and wanted to take a shot at a strong player (although you would have been in a much better position to take a less risky shot like Ghosting). What are your thoughts on why Iso died?
There's a nice steady rain coming down; smells great and is incredibly relaxing. Good weather for catching up on mafia and trying to be thoughtful while I do it.
I also gave him a lot of lenience when this happened, but saying "Are you the Ascetic?" is not the question you ask when you're trying to question what you're viewing as a contradiction between two posts.
@DoT - Why were you reading Killjoy as scummy D1? How was his approach different than Rhand's?
The premise of this argument - that DoT would have read Iso's posts closer if he was town - is not one that I entirely agree with, but the fact that DoT isn't engaging him very hard at all and that's concerning is a good one. A good bit of what's allowed me to clear DoT in past games with him was his strong, unshakeable paranoia; in Classic, he expressed frequent doubts on me even while I was close to confirmed town and I had protected the ***** out of him, and his his first newbie game on MS, he tunneled a universal townread pretty incessantly close to LyLo. His push here on Iso doesn't really have that same bite.
Grimclaw's 110 is a good look for him, in my opinion. While I don't exactly think that his paranoia on me would be incredibly difficult to fake, it adds depth to his read on me, and being paranoid of people who are townreading you hard seems pretty natural to me from townies but a bit rarer as scum.
Grimclaw's 148 seems like a strong point in his favor; he brings focus to mallorean when focus is not on him at all (the only heat he'd gotten at that point was me telling him to scumhunt more), and when there were a lot of mislynches still available. This is a setup that punishes bussing early pretty heavily and I think Grimclaw was in a position to push along a Killjoy mislynch and take the game into 4-2 tomorrow which would have been a pretty great position for scum. This is a strong point for Grimclaw.
Grimclaw, there is a tumbleweed emoticon:
Two strong interactions by NaG that both point towards DoT as the last scum; 172 paints a vision of a DoT-Rhand team while proposing to lynch Ghosting today since Ghosting as the best lynch for scum not partnered with Rhand; I find this to be a strong point of partner interaction. Slight distancing (since he's calling him possible scum), but based on reasoning that he will be able to back off easily later. If he was setting up for a mislynch, I don't see why he would hinge all of DoT's scumminess on being scum with Rhand (he clearly was willing to attack players without a case based on his Ghosting push alone). I find it difficult that out of his three easy mislynches (DoT/Ghosting/Killjoy) he would completely shut out two of his options because they were "probably rhand partners".
Secondly, him "guessing" that DoT was the Ascetic looks incredibly suspicious from my end; sure, he mentioned the Ascetic role early, but again, I don't see scum having the brass to rolefish a townie that incredibly hard but could see the two (or one of them) setting something up like this to serve as a positive interaction for DoT.
The interaction from NaG that looks good from Grimclaw is the one where he has Grimclaw as what's basically his only townread; I don't see two scumpartners do something like that often at all.
Re: DoT's catchup:
The explanation for reading Rhand as town (the fact that he proposed lynching the Ascetic when he knew the Ascetic was town) seems... odd, but is not something I think is outside of DoT's town range. The real thing that bothers me about that reasoning in particular is that it didn't really seem like DoT was struggling to hide information re: his Rhand read (he never tried to fight for Rhand town, he didn't really protect him when he was getting lynched), and the fact that he gave a completely different explanation initially bothers me. Maybe he thought to make something up as a townie at the time, but it seems unlikely that there would be no signs of annoyance or no vague allusions to having additional reasoning or anything if he was actually telling the truth there.
I don't understand why Grimclaw believing the investigative PRs (not all PRs) were useless.
I don't think the rest of DoT's catchup was significant; probably just getting a little tired of catching up at this point, but I don't really think that there's anything that's going to convince me not to vote DoT at this point.
The second piece of the case against DoT that I feel is significant is his interactions with NaG; NaG setting him up as a lynch if and only if Rhand was scum, NaG somehow very confidently calling out DoT as the Ascetic, whereas Grimclaw was NaG's only real townread and Grimclaw also brought the spotlight on mallorean when there was no real need to do so (and when doing so would trash his chances of winning significantly).
Vote: DoTArchon
I've done my reread. If you were scum, I don't think it's because I missed picking up on something or didn't pressure you enough; it would be because you played a pretty kickass game and you deserved the win.
What do you think that I've unreasonably given you a pass for? What do you think that I've unreasonably attacked DoT for?
Well played gents, sorry for not being around on the weekend. Our Harry Potter midnight launch on Saturday took a hell of a lot more prep and effort than I'd expected and I slept through most of yesterday.
doTArchon was Mafia Ascetic. Killjoy was Town Vanilla.
The town composed of Killjoy, Grimclaw, Nachomamma8, Ghosting, Iso, and Rhand win. Special thanks to not_a_gimmick for replacing in, and mod notes to come.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Thanks to GJ for allowing me to still get the win though.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Was a pleasure towning with everyone; apologies for the delayed absence during LyLo, life kind of kicked all of my teeth out and I fell behind everywhere. I was the Doctor, I ended up protecting Grimclaw during our only night since he was my strongest townread and I figured that I'd be able to keep my paranoia on him to a minimum regardless of who else ended up making it to LyLo.
I did that think my LyLo cases were pretty skewed against DoT, but I also think there was just a lot more pointing to it being DoT over you, Grim; I did try to find reasons to make a case against you, but I couldn't really dig anything up. Was there anything that you thought I missed?
That was not the best position to replace in to, as I think it was already heading towards my lynch. I tried my best to tie myself to nachomamma/iso so my partner could play up that paranoia once I was gone.
I think dotarchon did pretty well, but ultimately nacho's innocent light shone through.
Great job grimclaw and nacho for being so very villagery.
I hope to play with you all again, under this account or another.
Someday I will reveal my identity. But I am not quite done with this playstyle yet.
Grimclaw, thanks for not making me have to fight you.
Nacho, a pleasure towning with you, as always.
N_A_G, you know where I'll be seeing you.
DoT, better luck next time.
Killjoy, what the hell happened?
Ghosting, I forgive you. Not for Neighbors, though. That's a different story.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
DoTA and NAG didn't deserve the fate I saddled them with.
That said, this setup felt very town favored as long as town was willing to lynch twice on Day1 and lynch through the rest on Day2. Getting 3 mislychnes in such a small game is pretty OP. I probably wouldn't play this setup again as is.
As soon as the game really started, it didn't look like we'd be able to beat any of the three of you in Final 3, and needed to chain lynch Killjoy, Rhand, Ghosting. Which, uh, I made kind of difficult.
Great job being obviously town.
Of note, I did consider playing this setup with 8 people, axing one of the vanillas. Maybe in retrospect, that should have happened, but I think you are ignoring the fact that the town had three mislynches, and no safe claims. Now, as it happens, the two two lynches both happened to be vanilla, but a doctor claim or a watcher claim were not get out of lynch free cards, like they would in any other game. With 8 or 9 people, the expectation would be for the town players to all play a strong game, but going with 8 players, they also have to play the set-up correctly, and on a time limit. This game was incredibly winnable for the scum, and it just so happened that the town played better in this instance. That said, there were a lot of things that could have gone wrong on the town side (not agreeing on a second lynch, more arguing on the set-up, not posting during a two week deadline). The Rhand mislynch was a good start, but I feel like the scum fell short in standing out as more townie.
I really wish I could play in this set-up myself. It really seemed fun, and I like the mechanics of a multi lynch system. The town can get more power, but it comes at the cost of flying blind on wagon analysis until the next day, in which the scum get to make at least one kill (and obviously, the scum know the alignment of the dead player(s). This set-up I do think leans town assuming even play skill, but I feel the game in is incredibly behavior/skill intensive that the better team should win most of the time.
I don't normally award MVPs for Micros, but I think everyone did a collective good job. dota got the first lynch out of the way (killjoy), but ended up just falling short at the end.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player