(dedicated to my IRL-friend, Gomhog, on whose set-up this one is based on)
Rules: You've played mafia before, you know the rules already. Don't break them.
Town Vanilla
You have no abilities aside from your vote.
You win when mafia is dead
Town Cop
At nights, you can PM me a name of a player. At the end of night, you will be informed whether that player is town or mafia
You win when mafia is dead
Town Grandmother
If you and Mafia Goon are the two last remaining players, you will kill the Mafia Goon and win the game for town
You win when mafia is dead
Town Traitor
You are aligned with mafia, but if investigated, you will give back "Town" as a result.
You do not know who is Mafia Goon and Mafia Goon doesn't know who you are.
When Mafia Goon dies, you commit suicide.
You (and Mafia Goon) win when Mafia Goon is one of the two living players and Town Grandmother is dead
Mafia Goon
You are mafia and hence must kill a single player each night.
You do not know who is Town Traitor and they do not know you.
You (and Town Traitor) win when Mafia Goon is one of the two living players and Town Grandmother is dead
While it is only three to lynch, nobody in their right mind would rush a lynch this early. The caution you're expressing is interesting (as well as voting if you're just going to unvote). Do you think that it is likely an RVS vote could result in a lynch this early, in reality?
While it is only three to lynch, nobody in their right mind would rush a lynch this early. The caution you're expressing is interesting (as well as voting if you're just going to unvote). Do you think that it is likely an RVS vote could result in a lynch this early, in reality?
I've never been a fan of RVS.
The "caution" however, is not too much to worry about. My first micro as well. I agree with Shockwave, let's not get hasty on the votes.
Quick question for the MOD or even anyone who knows. What is a "No reveal?"
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Death doesn't equal a flip in a no reveal game. Which is even more motivation to hunt.
It's early, but thoughts on all posters Rodemy?
I don't like how Atagholic still has his vote on me based off the fact he hasn't played with me. He even posted again, didn't unvote. Like it didn't cross his mind to unvote. He also failed to acknowledge Ghostlings post, which kind of stood up for him. Idk, just small observations here and there. Nothing too big.
Like for instance, you just randomly point out we have played before, put a threatening vote onto Atog and then unvoted him (not actually in that order but **** it, i'm lazy)
Seemed very quippy and just.. fake, like you were portraying a badass
Why are you so curious about my thoughts?
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Being aggressive is the ONLY way we can catch scum D1
I was wondering if a mass claim would help since we know what the roles are..
We lynch the inconsistencies.
Discuss.
I was thinking this as well, but there are a few reasons I'm not so sure it'd be ideal. Outing the grandmother means town loses a fair amount of power. Same with outing the cop. While we might catch scum, we're relying on catching an inconsistency. And since we don't get flips, how would we verify roles? What if we don't catch an inconsistency? That seems like an auto lose situation in that scenario.
And since it was brought out, "No Reveal" means that roles are not revealed upon death. They will stay hidden until this game ends.
And in case I forgot to tell you: No Lynches are not allowed in this game. If deadline is reached and no player has enough votes, the player with most votes will be lynched. If there's a tie, the player whose last vote was placed on them earlier will be lynched.
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Quote from Prophylaxis »
Also modgaming Bur setups is kind of treading down a dark path
I do not believe that a mass claim will get us anywhere in this set up.
Hello to all.
Atog came into the game acting like it was a regular-sized set up. I am not sure I like the "not thinking" look that gives.
Shock came in thinking the exact same thing I did, one could presume, however, did it with a very fear-mongery touch. I also don't like that he voted... for someone voting. That doesn't jive in my head.
Ghosting came in and expressed the same feelings I had. He has a great point about a rush lynch this early. Seems really unlikely, and actually would cause the scum team to simply out themselves. That doesn't seem optimal for them. Although, doing my math pretty quickly; townie rush lynched (4), Night kill not the Traitor (3), Traitor, Scum, Whoever left day 2... They vote correctly they win. So it does get them closer to their wincon.
Long time no see Rodemy. I like where your head is at so far.
Question for all... What do you think is the likeliest way to get to a town win? Scum hunt regularly? Mass Claim? Randomize day one (hunting still is fine) hope for information from the cop tomorrow?
Has anyone played in a no reveal before? I have not and am wondering how we counteract that downside?
I do not believe that a mass claim will get us anywhere in this set up.
Hello to all.
Atog came into the game acting like it was a regular-sized set up. I am not sure I like the "not thinking" look that gives.
Shock came in thinking the exact same thing I did, one could presume, however, did it with a very fear-mongery touch. I also don't like that he voted... for someone voting. That doesn't jive in my head.
Ghosting came in and expressed the same feelings I had. He has a great point about a rush lynch this early. Seems really unlikely, and actually would cause the scum team to simply out themselves. That doesn't seem optimal for them. Although, doing my math pretty quickly; townie rush lynched (4), Night kill not the Traitor (3), Traitor, Scum, Whoever left day 2... They vote correctly they win. So it does get them closer to their wincon.
Long time no see Rodemy. I like where your head is at so far.
Question for all... What do you think is the likeliest way to get to a town win? Scum hunt regularly? Mass Claim? Randomize day one (hunting still is fine) hope for information from the cop tomorrow?
Has anyone played in a no reveal before? I have not and am wondering how we counteract that downside?
You seem to be doing a lot of Scum-thinking in this post.
Also, please clarify " I also don't like that he voted... for someone voting"
And for a little frosting:
Vote Huntzilla
Voting someone who is already voting someone isn't scummy at all. In fact, the way you put it, He did it with a "fear monger touch" Which backpacks my statement of "being a badass" so adding "i also don't like that he voted for someone voting" seems off to me.
Also, You seem to be saying that people are saying the same thing as you.
I feel like a lack of original thought is coming from you.
Your idea is not a good one because Oh hay, what if we lynch the cop?
Overall i feel 60-70% confident about my vote.
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Being aggressive is the ONLY way we can catch scum D1
I was wondering if a mass claim would help since we know what the roles are..
We lynch the inconsistencies.
Discuss.
Quote from Huntzilla »
Question for all... What do you think is the likeliest way to get to a town win? Scum hunt regularly? Mass Claim? Randomize day one (hunting still is fine) hope for information from the cop tomorrow?
Here’s my thoughts on this. I don’t think this game can solved by traditional scumhunting, because we are hunting, essentially, two neutrals. The normal rule of uninformed majority/informed minority don’t apply here, for example there 0 point in figuring out who’s trying to push mislynches because the scum don’t even know what the mislynches are, and we can’t even see if a flip is town or not !
So, you guys can still go for traditional scumhunting if you want, but I’m gonna try to ignore all of that because it’s
The way we need to win this game is though townclearing and poe. I think massclaiming is crucial to making this work. Massclaims are especially powerful this game because each role is a unique role - meaning that BOTH scum members will be forced to counterclaim or be counterclaimed this game. If we can manage to townclear correctly this will be our avenue to victory.
However, I don’t think it’s a good idea to claim immediately but to wait until the end of Day 1. (Maybe 3-2 days before the deadline.) That way we all have the opportunity to form our own opinions and town blocs first. If activity starts to stagnate halfway through the Day though, it might be a good idea to move up the massclaim to get the tread going again.
Finally, about the cop, I think that this is a nefarious trap put into the setup by our dear host Bur. Think about it, for it to even do anything both the cop and the goon need to be among the last 3 players alive. On top of that, the cop will have 4 options to choose form Night 1, which is a 75% chance of missing. And on top of that, scumhunting isn’t effective this game so they won’t have that to point them to the right target. Overall it’s a very conditional role and we shouldn’t be afraid of losing it to make a massclaim happen.
Atog came into the game acting like it was a regular-sized set up. I am not sure I like the "not thinking" look that gives.
How telling do you think this is? What makes you think it comes from scum and not town?
Shock came in thinking the exact same thing I did, one could presume, however, did it with a very fear-mongery touch. I also don't like that he voted... for someone voting. That doesn't jive in my head.
Why doesn't it jive in your head?
Ghosting came in and expressed the same feelings I had. He has a great point about a rush lynch this early. Seems really unlikely, and actually would cause the scum team to simply out themselves. That doesn't seem optimal for them. Although, doing my math pretty quickly; townie rush lynched (4), Night kill not the Traitor (3), Traitor, Scum, Whoever left day 2... They vote correctly they win. So it does get them closer to their wincon.
This is actually solid logic and I'm glad you're thinking. Seems to come from a pro-town mindset in my opinion.
Question for all... What do you think is the likeliest way to get to a town win? Scum hunt regularly? Mass Claim? Randomize day one (hunting still is fine) hope for information from the cop tomorrow?
Has anyone played in a no reveal before? I have not and am wondering how we counteract that downside?
I think a mass claim day 2 may be the best way, but with no flips it might be just as effective day one. Randomizing day one seems like a waste of a day, especially if we're still hunting; why not just lynch who we agree is the scummiest, rather than leave it for chance. This seems weird to suggest.
I've never played in a no reveal before, but I imagine we're going to be relying on the cop a fair amount. Seeing as we can't no lynch, I just think hunting is our best option.
I've never played in a no reveal before, but I imagine we're going to be relying on the cop a fair amount. Seeing as we can't no lynch, I just think hunting is our best option.
This is like the exact opposite of what I was saying
This is like the exact opposite of what I was saying
Out of the two of us though, I think I'm right
I went and reread your post, and I actually agree. Since there's no flips, and we have a role that comes back as town even though it's not, the cop really does have a lot less value than it traditionally would.
If we do massclaim, I think it's best that the order is randomised. I'm not sure the best way to do this, but here are five groups, where each person has an equal chance of being at any point of the order:
Group 1:
Ghosting
Atogaholic
Rodemy
Huntzilla
Shockwave07
Group 2:
Atogaholic
Ghosting
Rodemy
Huntzilla
Shockwave07
Group 3:
Rodemy
Atogaholic
Ghosting
Huntzilla
Shockwave07
Group 4:
Huntzilla
Rodemy
Atogaholic
Ghosting
Shockwave07
Group 5:
Shockwave07
Huntzilla
Rodemy
Atogaholic
Ghosting
We could have another player randomly pick the order, but the only concern is we have no way of knowing if what they selected is genuinely random, or if they chose it for a specific reason. I'm going to test the dice out in my next post, to see if it comes up as random.
Also, having vanilla claim is...interesting.
While it means the cop has a 1 in 4 chance of winning, it means cop gets outed tomorrow, and then it just means traitor gets to hide and grandmother is more likely to be found (and 2 town players are outted). Seems like it only benefits scum. :/
The irony of it is a vanilla claim has the same effect as a mass claim (assuming 2 vanilla claims). Poes the scum players, but also Poes town PRs.
...Thinking about this, this would be one place where I could appreciate a town triple cop claim, but not for scum catching instead town favored WIFOM. At the same time, you have the same, if not greater effect, scum hunting and no claims except on impending death. Even if I were to claim a power role, I want the lynch pushed through just to narrow things.
Back onto scum hunting: Rodemy, I have to agree Huntzilla's post pinged me as well, but I've always had trouble putting something like that into a strong case. Can you break down that post?
Being aggressive is the ONLY way we can catch scum D1
I was wondering if a mass claim would help since we know what the roles are..
We lynch the inconsistencies.
Discuss.
Quote from Huntzilla »
Question for all... What do you think is the likeliest way to get to a town win? Scum hunt regularly? Mass Claim? Randomize day one (hunting still is fine) hope for information from the cop tomorrow?
Here’s my thoughts on this. I don’t think this game can solved by traditional scumhunting, because we are hunting, essentially, two neutrals. The normal rule of uninformed majority/informed minority don’t apply here, for example there 0 point in figuring out who’s trying to push mislynches because the scum don’t even know what the mislynches are, and we can’t even see if a flip is town or not !
So, you guys can still go for traditional scumhunting if you want, but I’m gonna try to ignore all of that because it’s
The way we need to win this game is though townclearing and poe. I think massclaiming is crucial to making this work. Massclaims are especially powerful this game because each role is a unique role - meaning that BOTH scum members will be forced to counterclaim or be counterclaimed this game. If we can manage to townclear correctly this will be our avenue to victory.
However, I don’t think it’s a good idea to claim immediately but to wait until the end of Day 1. (Maybe 3-2 days before the deadline.) That way we all have the opportunity to form our own opinions and town blocs first. If activity starts to stagnate halfway through the Day though, it might be a good idea to move up the massclaim to get the tread going again.
Finally, about the cop, I think that this is a nefarious trap put into the setup by our dear host Bur. Think about it, for it to even do anything both the cop and the goon need to be among the last 3 players alive. On top of that, the cop will have 4 options to choose form Night 1, which is a 75% chance of missing. And on top of that, scumhunting isn’t effective this game so they won’t have that to point them to the right target. Overall it’s a very conditional role and we shouldn’t be afraid of losing it to make a massclaim happen.
Atog came into the game acting like it was a regular-sized set up. I am not sure I like the "not thinking" look that gives.
How telling do you think this is? What makes you think it comes from scum and not town?
Shock came in thinking the exact same thing I did, one could presume, however, did it with a very fear-mongery touch. I also don't like that he voted... for someone voting. That doesn't jive in my head.
Why doesn't it jive in your head?
Ghosting came in and expressed the same feelings I had. He has a great point about a rush lynch this early. Seems really unlikely, and actually would cause the scum team to simply out themselves. That doesn't seem optimal for them. Although, doing my math pretty quickly; townie rush lynched (4), Night kill not the Traitor (3), Traitor, Scum, Whoever left day 2... They vote correctly they win. So it does get them closer to their wincon.
This is actually solid logic and I'm glad you're thinking. Seems to come from a pro-town mindset in my opinion.
Question for all... What do you think is the likeliest way to get to a town win? Scum hunt regularly? Mass Claim? Randomize day one (hunting still is fine) hope for information from the cop tomorrow?
Has anyone played in a no reveal before? I have not and am wondering how we counteract that downside?
I think a mass claim day 2 may be the best way, but with no flips it might be just as effective day one. Randomizing day one seems like a waste of a day, especially if we're still hunting; why not just lynch who we agree is the scummiest, rather than leave it for chance. This seems weird to suggest.
I've never played in a no reveal before, but I imagine we're going to be relying on the cop a fair amount. Seeing as we can't no lynch, I just think hunting is our best option.
First question: irrelevant after he explained what he came into the game believing. See above quote.
Second: Doesn't jive because it looks fake and contrived. Like he wanted to show his "disdain" for voting, but then he turned himself into a hypocrite. Seems like he was trying to fake emotion.
Third: Yay! Thanks!
Fourth: I appreciate your opinion, but upon further review and reflection, I think day 2 will be too late. If it was a reveal game, it would make perfect sense. But the no reveal really screws us. It was a suggestion, randomization is about as likely as taking the human element into account. Thanks for the answers though!
Also, why say that a mass claim will get us nowhere, but suggest a mass claim as a means to winning in the end of your post?
I did not want anyone blowing their wad and claiming in their second post. Wanted a little more talk before we got into it. Also, it's an option. I was attempting to think of all the ways we could approach the game.
Shockwave is literally last to claim in ALL but one of those. That puts him at a disadvantage. So.... i move for a no.
Let's have the Vanilla claim. Cop can target him tonight and has a 1 in 4 chance of surviving the night.
If the cop does die in the night, well then i guess we are ****ed, but we won't know.
Will the real vanilla please stand up?
What he said... No.
We could randomize once we get further along, but in all likelihood, we will actually have stronger opinions about the order down the road.
The irony of it is a vanilla claim has the same effect as a mass claim (assuming 2 vanilla claims). Poes the scum players, but also Poes town PRs.
...Thinking about this, this would be one place where I could appreciate a town triple cop claim, but not for scum catching instead town favored WIFOM. At the same time, you have the same, if not greater effect, scum hunting and no claims except on impending death. Even if I were to claim a power role, I want the lynch pushed through just to narrow things.
Back onto scum hunting: Rodemy, I have to agree Huntzilla's post pinged me as well, but I've always had trouble putting something like that into a strong case. Can you break down that post?
I was feeling bad about being unable to post earlier today but this thread is super deserted, I swear I saw a tumbleweed when I was scrolling down. Where’d everyone go
If we do massclaim, I think it's best that the order is randomised. I'm not sure the best way to do this, but here are five groups, where each person has an equal chance of being at any point of the order:
Hm here’s my thoughts on claim order, I think the scum will be wanting to go later if possible so they can have their chance to counterclaim a “weaker” player, if that makes sense. Maybe the best option is something like: have the people who are in most people’s town blocs go last, and randomize between the null/scum reads. Ofc this isn’t perfect since if there’s a deep scum or something they could still pick who they CC. To be honest claim order doesn’t really matter /that/ much, I would actually be ok with a fully random claim if this thread isn’t active enough to organize the claim order in time. But hey every little bit of thought counts, right ?
Right now I’m leaning town on Ghosting. I’ve found that players who put a lot of genuine thought into game mechanics early on are likely town, since it means they are trying to figure the game out. I like most of what Ghosting’s posted since it looks like he’s putting real effort in his thoughts.
Huntzilla I like as well. He’s exuding confidence in his own towniness, and he’s correctly townreading me which is always a good sign.
I’ve reversed my opinion about Shockwave, I think he’s null. Interested to see what he’s gonna say after being challenged by Hunt.
Rodemy, I feel like he has a mindset of looking at people’s posts for things that are “strange” and pointing them out. I don’t think that’s useful because it’s already hard to tell if something quirky is scum or town, but since we’re basically hunting neutrals here the line gets even more blurred. At the same time though Rodemy’s approach to the game could easily come from town so null read on him as well.
Come on people, as much as I would like to I can’t win this game all by myself. If the scum want to lurk fine, but two of you are town and you HAVE to start posting and get your opinions in the thread so that others can read you.
Shockwave, Rodemy, as it currently stands if the deadline was right now I would pick one of you two to kill because the other two players I think are townier. If I'm wrong on either of you, please come to this thread and prove otherwise.
You havent played with me before, its what i do. As for your
However, your logic of the scum wanting to claim later is weird since you think i am less scummy and i am down for claiming now.
You want to lynch me because i am not being useful? I have a personal life. I am at Otakon this weekend as staff so my posting will be a little sporatic.
You have my vote already.
I have a scum feeling about huntzilla, which is why i voting him.
You need to get this game going is towny, but your push for a lynch this fast is scummy.
You also @rodemy'd me twice in yoir last post.
I think your complete like of huntzilla is based on him town reading you, which i do not like. I will tell more after claim if we do it.
I say we start claim and go from there.
Look at the people against a claim. They will be scum. End of story.
We have 3 town. Lets claim so we can lynch the other two.
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Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Been damn busy. 50 hours and counting since Saturday.
Atogaholic: votes Rodemy, hasn't removed it.
Calls cop a trap, but uses bad logic as to say why. Assuming cop survives (1 in 3 assuming not lynched), he has a 1 in 3 chance of hitting scum, and failing that a 1 in 2 chance of hitting the surviving town result.
Not that the cop is the best role here, but it is one of two town backup plans. The other has a 75% chance of not making it until endgame before other factors.
Noting bouncing on reads as earlier I was a town read with a null Rodemy.
Move to Ghosting town, Hunt town, me null, Rodemy bottom, effectively making me second part of the team. Either way at least it's a list to work with from him.
I will note a plus as he is invested in this despite people not talking.
Ghosting: Tone in first post seems playful, but not to extreme levels. Questions about early Day end due to RVS vote.
Auto loss talk comes across as fear mongery... Only reason why I hesitate, is because I've been accused of the same scummy behavior as town (lurkers, role protecting, deadlines)
I disagree with his assessment of hunt, and further push of claim.
Randomizes claim orders if done. And I'm last on each surprisingly.
Rodemy: Opens with calming things about my early calming and not getting hasty with votes. Follow up after answering the "no reveal" question suggests looking into things along with suspicions of Atogaholic.
Suggests mass claim for "inconsistencies". The fact that he states this right before any discussion starts worries me.
Rodemy's break down of the post... Okay, I feel like an idiot.
Talk of vanilla claim... Even worse!
Huntzilla: calls Atog not thinking but waffles on alignment mindset. Then adds about my vote and reaction as fear mongery. Doesn't mention the Unvote.
I think this part of the post really is where I'm seeing scum mindset, agrees with Ghosting's thoughts, but then criticizes it (and through it his own) saying a correct lynch outs themselves and pushes their wincon. Red flag here.
Finishes with best way to win talk.
Atog in town bloc? Why?
----------
Have to agree Ghosting seems most towny, if only by virtue of nothing that comes across strongly scummy in his posts.
Thanks Bur, looks like that whipped some of them into posting.
Quote from Rodemy »
However, your logic of the scum wanting to claim later is weird since you think i am less scummy and i am down for claiming now.
By later I meant scum want to be later in the claim order.
Quote from Rodemy »
You want to lynch me because i am not being useful? I have a personal life. I am at Otakon this weekend as staff so my posting will be a little sporatic.
Idk if you're purposefully misrepping me or just being self-conscious because that's not even close to what I actually said or my intent. What I want is for you, and everyone else, to post more before the deadline because I've got less than a page of posts to base my reads on.
You seem to think / want to paint me as someone who's already sure of my reads and want to move to a lynch, when it's actually the polar opposite. I'm not comfortable finishing this game off with just the cursory reads I have and I want more info to work with.
Quote from Rodemy »
You also @rodemy'd me twice in yoir last post.
Oops, the second one should be @Shockwave but the first question I want answered. In this game that is based on finding townreads, I have yet to see you give your opinion on who's town.
Quote from Rodemy »
I think your complete like of huntzilla is based on him town reading you, which i do not like. I will tell more after claim if we do it.
I'm leaning town on Huntz because of his apparent confidence in his own townieness. There's also the fact that he played with me in Twinborn and has seen my scum meta. He knows it's unlikely I would post this much (comparatively) as scum, let alone be the driving force of the thread, so this townreading me makes sense for him.
Quote from Shockwave »
Calls cop a trap, but uses bad logic as to say why. Assuming cop survives (1 in 3 assuming not lynched), he has a 1 in 3 chance of hitting scum, and failing that a 1 in 2 chance of hitting the surviving town result.
It is very much a trap. If you want to go by probabilities, if we don't lynch the Goon correctly toDay there's a 3/5 chance of the Cop living, a 1/4 chance of hitting the Goon, and a 3/5 chance of the Traitor living and the Cop being outnumbered by scum. 3/5 * 1/4 * 3/5 = a whopping 9% of the Cop being effective in this game. There's no way we're holding off a massclaim for a 9% chance of victory.
Quote from Shockwave »
Have to agree Ghosting seems most towny, if only by virtue of nothing that comes across strongly scummy in his posts.
So I need to sort Hunt, Rodemy, and Atog.
So Ghosting is town because he's null ?? Why'd you ask Rodemy for his opinion 3 times when you have him as lower than null ?
@Atogaholic: Okay, now can answer that question now that I know that it's towards me, not asking Rodemy about himself.
Earlier in the game I was questioning if he was town (leaning town to be clear). After the call for vanillas to claim I'm questioning if he might be scum. Either way, trying to solidify a read one way or another.
And about Ghosting, I have to make my judgement on what I feel about his content. Not enough has been said since to change my mind. Though if he continues to lurk, won't mind a lynch here.
Hey guys, sorry for the lacking activity, I'm out of town on vacation and only have internet access at night (and it's unstable). I come back Sunday so my activity will be back to normal at that point, but for right now I'll do my best to post as often as I can and with content that will make up for it.
I'm currently townreading Atogaholic, his posts have consistently shown well thought out, logical, and active posts. Specifically, his post #38 where he talks about favouring discussion first over the mass claim, and also where he talks about how scum are going to want to claim later, not only shows me that he's thinking about the game, but also that he's not afraid to reveal information that makes it harder for scum to benefit in a mass claim. For this reason, I can't see him as scum or traitor. Also, his post #46 is solid town scumhunting, and I liked the thought process a lot.
As I suggested in my post #31, I'm cautious of Rodemy for wanting the vanilla to claim first. In his post #43, he says:
Quote from Rodemy »
However, your logic of the scum wanting to claim later is weird since you think i am less scummy and i am down for claiming now.
Let's say someone tells me they think it's scummy to type in red text. If I suddenly start typing in blue text, and point out that I'm super happy about it and am all for blue text, does that mean I'm suddenly town now? Obviously not, and your logic here is flawed for that same reason. Additionally, let's say you're scum and you do claim first. All you'd have to do is say that anyone who counters your claim is lying. You may even feel more comfortable claiming early so you can defend anyone countering your claim by saying you were down to claim earlier, and that it wouldn't make sense for you to claim if you knew you'd be countered.
He also says:
Quote from Rodemy »
Look at the people against a claim. They will be scum. End of story.
Do you think it is impossible that town might be against a mass claim?
If you agree that it's possible, do you think it's pro-town to create a dichotomy that could cause two people to get lynched, just because they're hesitant about a mass claim? Also, didn't both people against the mass claim say they just favoured more discussion first? Do you not agree that that's a pro-town mindset?
I remember liking Hunt's logic in post #18, but also disliking that it kind of came across as him wanting others to give their input so he could barn it and go along with whatever. I'll have to reread him in the morning as I'm about to sleep.
Shock I am thinking may be the traitor? It's like he wants cop to be used, I read his #44 as him being disgruntled that Atog was suggesting the cop is worthless (also why Atog earns more town points in my book). I also think he backed off a bit in post #48 where his read on me gets questioned and it becomes more of a fencesit.
So if I had to organise my current thoughts into a T/S list:
Rules: You've played mafia before, you know the rules already. Don't break them.
Alive:
Rodemy, endgamed (Town Vanilla)
Huntzilla, endgamed (Town Grandmother)
Shockwave07, endgamed (Town Cop)
Dead:
Ghostling, lynched D1 (Mafia Goon)
Atogaholic, commited suicide at the end of D1 (Town Traitor)
Current deadline: Deadline is Monday 15th of August, 21:59:59 GMT
Deadline is Monday 15th of August, 21:59:59 GMT.
Howdy, haven't played with you before
I have... At least two years ago.
Let's not be hasty with the votes shall we?
Unvote
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While it is only three to lynch, nobody in their right mind would rush a lynch this early. The caution you're expressing is interesting (as well as voting if you're just going to unvote). Do you think that it is likely an RVS vote could result in a lynch this early, in reality?
I've never been a fan of RVS.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Depending on how Day 1 plays out, could actually be a bit of an incentive to be a bit scummy Day 2 (Traitor, Goon, Towny remaining).
Is it going to happen? Don't know. But I'm always on the watch for the possibilities.
I hate Day 1 as I've said time and time again, just hoping this game doesn't give me more reason to.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
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Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
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Ohhh buddy. You are in for a TREAT.
The "caution" however, is not too much to worry about. My first micro as well. I agree with Shockwave, let's not get hasty on the votes.
Quick question for the MOD or even anyone who knows. What is a "No reveal?"
It's early, but thoughts on all posters Rodemy?
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I don't like how Atagholic still has his vote on me based off the fact he hasn't played with me. He even posted again, didn't unvote. Like it didn't cross his mind to unvote. He also failed to acknowledge Ghostlings post, which kind of stood up for him. Idk, just small observations here and there. Nothing too big.
Like for instance, you just randomly point out we have played before, put a threatening vote onto Atog and then unvoted him (not actually in that order but **** it, i'm lazy)
Seemed very quippy and just.. fake, like you were portraying a badass
Why are you so curious about my thoughts?
And if I'm coming off that way, maybe it's because I want to be that way. Be the hero for once.
Plus, can't really remember a thing of my past games other than they happened, some mechanical details, and my mafia record... >.<
I'll agree, I don't like the vote left there either. But there are two scum and only one is true mafia. I want that one.
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Being aggressive is the ONLY way we can catch scum D1
I was wondering if a mass claim would help since we know what the roles are..
We lynch the inconsistencies.
Discuss.
I was thinking this as well, but there are a few reasons I'm not so sure it'd be ideal. Outing the grandmother means town loses a fair amount of power. Same with outing the cop. While we might catch scum, we're relying on catching an inconsistency. And since we don't get flips, how would we verify roles? What if we don't catch an inconsistency? That seems like an auto lose situation in that scenario.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Strangely enough though this game almost encourages town to do misinformation as well.
But off that subject, Ghostling, do you have any feelings about Rodemy's last statement? Weak or strong, share please.
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Rodemy (1) - Atogaholic
With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.
-----
And since it was brought out, "No Reveal" means that roles are not revealed upon death. They will stay hidden until this game ends.
And in case I forgot to tell you: No Lynches are not allowed in this game. If deadline is reached and no player has enough votes, the player with most votes will be lynched. If there's a tie, the player whose last vote was placed on them earlier will be lynched.
Hello to all.
Atog came into the game acting like it was a regular-sized set up. I am not sure I like the "not thinking" look that gives.
Shock came in thinking the exact same thing I did, one could presume, however, did it with a very fear-mongery touch. I also don't like that he voted... for someone voting. That doesn't jive in my head.
Ghosting came in and expressed the same feelings I had. He has a great point about a rush lynch this early. Seems really unlikely, and actually would cause the scum team to simply out themselves. That doesn't seem optimal for them. Although, doing my math pretty quickly; townie rush lynched (4), Night kill not the Traitor (3), Traitor, Scum, Whoever left day 2... They vote correctly they win. So it does get them closer to their wincon.
Long time no see Rodemy. I like where your head is at so far.
Question for all... What do you think is the likeliest way to get to a town win? Scum hunt regularly? Mass Claim? Randomize day one (hunting still is fine) hope for information from the cop tomorrow?
Has anyone played in a no reveal before? I have not and am wondering how we counteract that downside?
You seem to be doing a lot of Scum-thinking in this post.
Also, please clarify " I also don't like that he voted... for someone voting"
And for a little frosting:
Vote Huntzilla
Voting someone who is already voting someone isn't scummy at all. In fact, the way you put it, He did it with a "fear monger touch" Which backpacks my statement of "being a badass" so adding "i also don't like that he voted for someone voting" seems off to me.
Also, You seem to be saying that people are saying the same thing as you.
I feel like a lack of original thought is coming from you.
Your idea is not a good one because Oh hay, what if we lynch the cop?
Overall i feel 60-70% confident about my vote.
So, you guys can still go for traditional scumhunting if you want, but I’m gonna try to ignore all of that because it’s
The way we need to win this game is though townclearing and poe. I think massclaiming is crucial to making this work. Massclaims are especially powerful this game because each role is a unique role - meaning that BOTH scum members will be forced to counterclaim or be counterclaimed this game. If we can manage to townclear correctly this will be our avenue to victory.
However, I don’t think it’s a good idea to claim immediately but to wait until the end of Day 1. (Maybe 3-2 days before the deadline.) That way we all have the opportunity to form our own opinions and town blocs first. If activity starts to stagnate halfway through the Day though, it might be a good idea to move up the massclaim to get the tread going again.
Finally, about the cop, I think that this is a nefarious trap put into the setup by our dear host Bur. Think about it, for it to even do anything both the cop and the goon need to be among the last 3 players alive. On top of that, the cop will have 4 options to choose form Night 1, which is a 75% chance of missing. And on top of that, scumhunting isn’t effective this game so they won’t have that to point them to the right target. Overall it’s a very conditional role and we shouldn’t be afraid of losing it to make a massclaim happen.
How telling do you think this is? What makes you think it comes from scum and not town?
Why doesn't it jive in your head?
This is actually solid logic and I'm glad you're thinking. Seems to come from a pro-town mindset in my opinion.
I think a mass claim day 2 may be the best way, but with no flips it might be just as effective day one. Randomizing day one seems like a waste of a day, especially if we're still hunting; why not just lynch who we agree is the scummiest, rather than leave it for chance. This seems weird to suggest.
I've never played in a no reveal before, but I imagine we're going to be relying on the cop a fair amount. Seeing as we can't no lynch, I just think hunting is our best option.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Out of the two of us though, I think I'm right
I went and reread your post, and I actually agree. Since there's no flips, and we have a role that comes back as town even though it's not, the cop really does have a lot less value than it traditionally would.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Group 1:
Ghosting
Atogaholic
Rodemy
Huntzilla
Shockwave07
Group 2:
Atogaholic
Ghosting
Rodemy
Huntzilla
Shockwave07
Group 3:
Rodemy
Atogaholic
Ghosting
Huntzilla
Shockwave07
Group 4:
Huntzilla
Rodemy
Atogaholic
Ghosting
Shockwave07
Group 5:
Shockwave07
Huntzilla
Rodemy
Atogaholic
Ghosting
We could have another player randomly pick the order, but the only concern is we have no way of knowing if what they selected is genuinely random, or if they chose it for a specific reason. I'm going to test the dice out in my next post, to see if it comes up as random.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Let's have the Vanilla claim. Cop can target him tonight and has a 1 in 4 chance of surviving the night.
If the cop does die in the night, well then i guess we are ****ed, but we won't know.
Will the real vanilla please stand up?
Lol I have no idea how I didn't realise that, I thought the pattern I used made it equal but I see now where it's absolutely not; my apologies.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
While it means the cop has a 1 in 4 chance of winning, it means cop gets outed tomorrow, and then it just means traitor gets to hide and grandmother is more likely to be found (and 2 town players are outted). Seems like it only benefits scum. :/
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
...Thinking about this, this would be one place where I could appreciate a town triple cop claim, but not for scum catching instead town favored WIFOM. At the same time, you have the same, if not greater effect, scum hunting and no claims except on impending death. Even if I were to claim a power role, I want the lynch pushed through just to narrow things.
Back onto scum hunting: Rodemy, I have to agree Huntzilla's post pinged me as well, but I've always had trouble putting something like that into a strong case. Can you break down that post?
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Yup
Atog, 100% in my Town Block First question: irrelevant after he explained what he came into the game believing. See above quote.
Second: Doesn't jive because it looks fake and contrived. Like he wanted to show his "disdain" for voting, but then he turned himself into a hypocrite. Seems like he was trying to fake emotion.
Third: Yay! Thanks!
Fourth: I appreciate your opinion, but upon further review and reflection, I think day 2 will be too late. If it was a reveal game, it would make perfect sense. But the no reveal really screws us. It was a suggestion, randomization is about as likely as taking the human element into account. Thanks for the answers though! I did not want anyone blowing their wad and claiming in their second post. Wanted a little more talk before we got into it. Also, it's an option. I was attempting to think of all the ways we could approach the game. What he said... No.
We could randomize once we get further along, but in all likelihood, we will actually have stronger opinions about the order down the road.
Come at me bro.
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No thanks, I’d rather have discussion first and have everyone claim.
Hm here’s my thoughts on claim order, I think the scum will be wanting to go later if possible so they can have their chance to counterclaim a “weaker” player, if that makes sense. Maybe the best option is something like: have the people who are in most people’s town blocs go last, and randomize between the null/scum reads. Ofc this isn’t perfect since if there’s a deep scum or something they could still pick who they CC. To be honest claim order doesn’t really matter /that/ much, I would actually be ok with a fully random claim if this thread isn’t active enough to organize the claim order in time. But hey every little bit of thought counts, right ?
Right now I’m leaning town on Ghosting. I’ve found that players who put a lot of genuine thought into game mechanics early on are likely town, since it means they are trying to figure the game out. I like most of what Ghosting’s posted since it looks like he’s putting real effort in his thoughts.
Huntzilla I like as well. He’s exuding confidence in his own towniness, and he’s correctly townreading me which is always a good sign.
I’ve reversed my opinion about Shockwave, I think he’s null. Interested to see what he’s gonna say after being challenged by Hunt.
Rodemy, I feel like he has a mindset of looking at people’s posts for things that are “strange” and pointing them out. I don’t think that’s useful because it’s already hard to tell if something quirky is scum or town, but since we’re basically hunting neutrals here the line gets even more blurred. At the same time though Rodemy’s approach to the game could easily come from town so null read on him as well.
@Rodemy You seem to have been looking for scumtells this game, but who do you think is towny, and why ?
@Ghosting I haven’t yet seen you commit to an opinion on another player. So, what are your opinions on each of the players ?
@Rodemy You’ve asked Rodemy for his opinion 3 times this game, but what is your opinion on Rodemy ?
@Huntzilla If you were me and had to ask you a question to get you in the thread, what would you ask ?
Shockwave, Rodemy, as it currently stands if the deadline was right now I would pick one of you two to kill because the other two players I think are townier. If I'm wrong on either of you, please come to this thread and prove otherwise.
Please keep in mind that the deadline is Monday 15th of August, 21:59:59 GMT.
You havent played with me before, its what i do. As for your
However, your logic of the scum wanting to claim later is weird since you think i am less scummy and i am down for claiming now.
You want to lynch me because i am not being useful? I have a personal life. I am at Otakon this weekend as staff so my posting will be a little sporatic.
You have my vote already.
I have a scum feeling about huntzilla, which is why i voting him.
You need to get this game going is towny, but your push for a lynch this fast is scummy.
You also @rodemy'd me twice in yoir last post.
I think your complete like of huntzilla is based on him town reading you, which i do not like. I will tell more after claim if we do it.
I say we start claim and go from there.
Look at the people against a claim. They will be scum. End of story.
We have 3 town. Lets claim so we can lynch the other two.
Atogaholic: votes Rodemy, hasn't removed it.
Calls cop a trap, but uses bad logic as to say why. Assuming cop survives (1 in 3 assuming not lynched), he has a 1 in 3 chance of hitting scum, and failing that a 1 in 2 chance of hitting the surviving town result.
Not that the cop is the best role here, but it is one of two town backup plans. The other has a 75% chance of not making it until endgame before other factors.
Noting bouncing on reads as earlier I was a town read with a null Rodemy.
Move to Ghosting town, Hunt town, me null, Rodemy bottom, effectively making me second part of the team. Either way at least it's a list to work with from him.
I will note a plus as he is invested in this despite people not talking.
Ghosting: Tone in first post seems playful, but not to extreme levels. Questions about early Day end due to RVS vote.
Auto loss talk comes across as fear mongery... Only reason why I hesitate, is because I've been accused of the same scummy behavior as town (lurkers, role protecting, deadlines)
I disagree with his assessment of hunt, and further push of claim.
Randomizes claim orders if done. And I'm last on each surprisingly.
Rodemy: Opens with calming things about my early calming and not getting hasty with votes. Follow up after answering the "no reveal" question suggests looking into things along with suspicions of Atogaholic.
Suggests mass claim for "inconsistencies". The fact that he states this right before any discussion starts worries me.
Rodemy's break down of the post... Okay, I feel like an idiot.
Talk of vanilla claim... Even worse!
Huntzilla: calls Atog not thinking but waffles on alignment mindset. Then adds about my vote and reaction as fear mongery. Doesn't mention the Unvote.
I think this part of the post really is where I'm seeing scum mindset, agrees with Ghosting's thoughts, but then criticizes it (and through it his own) saying a correct lynch outs themselves and pushes their wincon. Red flag here.
Finishes with best way to win talk.
Atog in town bloc? Why?
----------
Have to agree Ghosting seems most towny, if only by virtue of nothing that comes across strongly scummy in his posts.
So I need to sort Hunt, Rodemy, and Atog.
And I do agree, this is five man, not solo act.
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Also finished an off-site micro game. Unfortunately the nature of the setup led to a more logic puzzle take to the game over major scum hunting.
Here it is: http://forum.nogoblinsallowed.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15474
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By later I meant scum want to be later in the claim order.
Idk if you're purposefully misrepping me or just being self-conscious because that's not even close to what I actually said or my intent. What I want is for you, and everyone else, to post more before the deadline because I've got less than a page of posts to base my reads on.
You seem to think / want to paint me as someone who's already sure of my reads and want to move to a lynch, when it's actually the polar opposite. I'm not comfortable finishing this game off with just the cursory reads I have and I want more info to work with.
Oops, the second one should be @Shockwave but the first question I want answered. In this game that is based on finding townreads, I have yet to see you give your opinion on who's town.
I'm leaning town on Huntz because of his apparent confidence in his own townieness. There's also the fact that he played with me in Twinborn and has seen my scum meta. He knows it's unlikely I would post this much (comparatively) as scum, let alone be the driving force of the thread, so this townreading me makes sense for him.
It is very much a trap. If you want to go by probabilities, if we don't lynch the Goon correctly toDay there's a 3/5 chance of the Cop living, a 1/4 chance of hitting the Goon, and a 3/5 chance of the Traitor living and the Cop being outnumbered by scum. 3/5 * 1/4 * 3/5 = a whopping 9% of the Cop being effective in this game. There's no way we're holding off a massclaim for a 9% chance of victory.
So Ghosting is town because he's null ?? Why'd you ask Rodemy for his opinion 3 times when you have him as lower than null ?
Earlier in the game I was questioning if he was town (leaning town to be clear). After the call for vanillas to claim I'm questioning if he might be scum. Either way, trying to solidify a read one way or another.
And about Ghosting, I have to make my judgement on what I feel about his content. Not enough has been said since to change my mind. Though if he continues to lurk, won't mind a lynch here.
I'll keep my eyes open.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
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Well, that question seemed to work.
But, you can always ask the "who is likely scum" question...
Answer for me right now is Rodemy or Shock. Which is coincidentally where you are at too. So that's a good thing in my eyes.
Ok, just read through the rest of the posts and shock looks better. Ghosting falls to the bottom two by PoE.
Rodemy still scum to me.
I'm currently townreading Atogaholic, his posts have consistently shown well thought out, logical, and active posts. Specifically, his post #38 where he talks about favouring discussion first over the mass claim, and also where he talks about how scum are going to want to claim later, not only shows me that he's thinking about the game, but also that he's not afraid to reveal information that makes it harder for scum to benefit in a mass claim. For this reason, I can't see him as scum or traitor. Also, his post #46 is solid town scumhunting, and I liked the thought process a lot.
As I suggested in my post #31, I'm cautious of Rodemy for wanting the vanilla to claim first. In his post #43, he says:
Let's say someone tells me they think it's scummy to type in red text. If I suddenly start typing in blue text, and point out that I'm super happy about it and am all for blue text, does that mean I'm suddenly town now? Obviously not, and your logic here is flawed for that same reason. Additionally, let's say you're scum and you do claim first. All you'd have to do is say that anyone who counters your claim is lying. You may even feel more comfortable claiming early so you can defend anyone countering your claim by saying you were down to claim earlier, and that it wouldn't make sense for you to claim if you knew you'd be countered.
He also says:
Do you think it is impossible that town might be against a mass claim?
If you agree that it's possible, do you think it's pro-town to create a dichotomy that could cause two people to get lynched, just because they're hesitant about a mass claim? Also, didn't both people against the mass claim say they just favoured more discussion first? Do you not agree that that's a pro-town mindset?
I remember liking Hunt's logic in post #18, but also disliking that it kind of came across as him wanting others to give their input so he could barn it and go along with whatever. I'll have to reread him in the morning as I'm about to sleep.
Shock I am thinking may be the traitor? It's like he wants cop to be used, I read his #44 as him being disgruntled that Atog was suggesting the cop is worthless (also why Atog earns more town points in my book). I also think he backed off a bit in post #48 where his read on me gets questioned and it becomes more of a fencesit.
So if I had to organise my current thoughts into a T/S list:
Town:
Atog
Null:
Huntz
Lean Scum:
Shockwave
Scum:
Rodemy
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1