Yes, but the reasons you're pulling out for focusing on them, as reflected in your "five minute impression" seem extremely flimsy. It looks to me like you're reaching to establish a set of players as scum rather than actually looking for scum. There's a difference and it's important.
You realize one of the options for focusing on a cluster of players is that I can town clear the whole lot? It's not like I picked six players, rolled a die and decided X of those six were scum with X being < 5.
Your interpretation of aggressive seems to actually mean blowing things out of proportion and calling them scummy though. Also, wordy nitpick about this making it seem like you're going to stop applying pressure whether or not they make you feel better, but I know that's not what you mean.
If you have read any games of mine in the past, my posting style (especially day 1) is a lot more reactive. I determine aggressive to simply being active and forcing conversation. Like I am doing right now. As far as Hunt goes, yes. Unless I just happened to throw a dart on the bullseye, Hunt statistically is not scum. You literally just described the game of mafia, as you question people you think are scummy, try to figure out their alignment, and then either back off or push forward.
What's your point?
Ok, tell me more about what specifically you disliked about CFC that led to this conclusion
Starting to see why Iso is getting pissed off. I read CFC as lean scum and Soren as lean town. Both for their reactions to the no-lynch strat. One sounded more genuine and logical. The other not so much. It is only my interpretation of their motives and if I had the red glove to pin it to CFC, don't you think I would be pushing her instead of Mind?
That answered...half of my questions...kind of. You skip past the DV part, and you know that I can't take you at your word for #1, #2 is contingent on #1, and #3 is bs, especially being only a few days in and given the surprising frequency of vote counts.
Those are the people I won't vote for today today. I don't know where you got I was suggesting they are off limits, but obviously, I am going to push against any of those or form a counterwagon.
I skipped past the DV part because the answer is ******* obvious: I'm town reading DV. Are you actually sure my list is bad, or did you just not read it?
#3 is not bull*****. All that proves is that several players here might take advantage of the minimum posting rules.
Mindreaver and GJ, you guys played together in GoldenEye, 'member?
@GJ: you're assuming that all of the players with no-lynch unlocks are town. I think that's a shaky assumption. Also, what about Mindreaver's tone seems scummy? It seems like his town!tone to me.
His posts come off incredibly self-conscious, especially the post about his trigger being scum sounding. Responded to no-lynch with a youtube link with a serious question, his calling DV's vote on me good, but being unclear of the motive. Those kind of things.
There's a difference between being self-aware and self-conscious. Knowing that your trigger looks scummy is being self-aware, not self-conscious. Also, you only seem to care about naked votes on yourself.
Responded to no-lynch with a youtube link with a serious question,
Come on dude. There have been many, MANY, games on here where you have voted/push/discussed no-lynch as a way of gauging reactions from players you want to catch off guard. I wasn't going to blow up your spot and ruin the plan (until now). But I wanted you to know that "your mind trick doesn't work on me". Cythere told you literally the same thing. Or was it the link that was scummy, cause we'll have to lynch Tom ASAP, if that is the case.
his calling DV's vote on me good, but being unclear of the motive.
Meh, I don't have to be clear in my motives for every vote. If this raises eyebrows... good. I can't help but think my vote on you generated a lot of this attention/conversation today. So it was a total win.
Responded to no-lynch with a youtube link with a serious question,
Come on dude. There have been many, MANY, games on here where you have voted/push/discussed no-lynch as a way of gauging reactions from players you want to catch off guard. I wasn't going to blow up your spot and ruin the plan (until now). But I wanted you to know that "your mind trick doesn't work on me". Cythere told you literally the same thing. Or was it the link that was scummy, cause we'll have to lynch Tom ASAP, if that is the case.
his calling DV's vote on me good, but being unclear of the motive.
Meh, I don't have to be clear in my motives for every vote. If this raises eyebrows... good. I can't help but think my vote on you generated a lot of this attention/conversation today. So it was a total win.
And in ever game except the one I was scum and did it for appearances, I was serious. Animal Mafia had a similar set-up where everyone was a guaranteed PR. Cythare has played in exactly one game with me, and I don't believe I brought up no-lynch in the Invitational.
As far as your motives...are you joking? You thinking a vote is good means you agree with the read, or the conclusion reached with it. You didn't even know why he did it, and your two options weren't necessarily the only ones possible. And no, generating attention is NOT a good thing if the attention is negative. Like what I am getting (that said, my goal isn't to draw attention, but it's happening anyway).
How do you not see the problem I have with your comment towards DV's post? This entire game is based on reading reasons and interactions without other players.
I also realize the irony of someone who states they know their range, and state action a is not in that range, while in full control of action a. Kindly disregard that and tell vote mindreaver, or give me a damn good reason he is town.
First off: I don't know why we are spending so much time worrying about unlocking latent abilities, claiming the triggers for them, and all that good stuff. One of the reasons why Specialties are so scum-sided is because the town wastes a lot of time talking about mechanics, which is a perfect smokescreen for scum to hide.
Take a look at Mind Screw - scum!tom and scum!killjoy in that game were able to avoid the lynch for so long because ALL they did (and the town) was talk about what the heck was going on with the game because of the incessant mechanics discussion. There was absolutely no behavioral analysis done that game, and as such we had to rely on the SK to take them out when we were putting our heads in the ground buying up everything the scum were saying. I see this game taking a similar path (fixation on mechanics) and it's the last thing we need right now.
I know I'm sort of responsible for that due to my role, but I can't control what role I got randomized or even that this role was designed in the first place, so we should really focus on analysis to root out the scum instead of worrying about abilities.
Quote from Soren »
What about the playerbase that makes you want to be town?
Pretty decent number of experienced players here, as well as you and Jack coming onto this site. Plus, my good friend Atogaholic is hosting this game, and I wouldn't want to let him down.
What was your purpose of asking this question? What did you hope to gain from it?
Quote from D_V »
But really it is because you failed the reaction test of post 36. Thoughts?
I really don't see not responding to "are you scum" as failing a reaction test. It doesn't seem like a good rationale to hunt the scum with, at least.
Quote from Kosakosa »
Hello all!
I haven't read a thing, will do later today or tomorrow, but I gotta ask:
My latent abilities unlock whenever the Day ends with a no lynch. I'm not hinted what they are though.
Help me please?
In contrast, I kind of like this cavalier opening from Kosa.
Quote from Lil4leafclover »
@prophyaxis if we left you alone for the time being, will you reveal your latent ability to us?
Yes. I claimed to do so in my first post.
Quote from zomgarcwind »
Im not a fan of no-lynch, however if the group consensus leads there i will support it
I am really not a fan of this post. Can you explain your stance on no-lynching in more detail? It seems like you're placing higher importance with whatever the group thinks than what is actually best for town.
I also like Kosa's second post. It could just be the confirmation bias, but it feels like he actually believes that Silver is scum.
I can't tell if #124 is actually coming from newb town.. or newb scum who doesn't know how the game works? It's triggered my "too anti-town to be town" alarm bells though.
Quote from scarbo »
Sounds pretty anti-town to me.
Unvote
Vote: zomgarcwind
You think anti-town equates to scum, in this case?
Eh. I think I'm coming around to zomg actually being newb town? He genuinely believes that his plan is pro-town.
Quote from Ghosting »
Proph, do you want me alive or dead?
I don't know what you do other than your "role is the opposite of mine", which is pretty vague. Do you, like, unvanillaize people or something?
And c'mon guys, we're better than this. We never no-lynch on Day 1. People who believe that no-lynching Day 1 is optimal is not good. Stop that.
First off: I don't know why we are spending so much time worrying about unlocking latent abilities, claiming the triggers for them, and all that good stuff. One of the reasons why Specialties are so scum-sided is because the town wastes a lot of time talking about mechanics, which is a perfect smokescreen for scum to hide.
Take a look at Mind Screw - scum!tom and scum!killjoy in that game were able to avoid the lynch for so long because ALL they did (and the town) was talk about what the heck was going on with the game because of the incessant mechanics discussion. There was absolutely no behavioral analysis done that game, and as such we had to rely on the SK to take them out when we were putting our heads in the ground buying up everything the scum were saying. I see this game taking a similar path (fixation on mechanics) and it's the last thing we need right now.
I know I'm sort of responsible for that due to my role, but I can't control what role I got randomized or even that this role was designed in the first place, so we should really focus on analysis to root out the scum instead of worrying about abilities.
Quote from Soren »
What about the playerbase that makes you want to be town?
Pretty decent number of experienced players here, as well as you and Jack coming onto this site. Plus, my good friend Atogaholic is hosting this game, and I wouldn't want to let him down.
What was your purpose of asking this question? What did you hope to gain from it?
Quote from D_V »
But really it is because you failed the reaction test of post 36. Thoughts?
I really don't see not responding to "are you scum" as failing a reaction test. It doesn't seem like a good rationale to hunt the scum with, at least.
Quote from Kosakosa »
Hello all!
I haven't read a thing, will do later today or tomorrow, but I gotta ask:
My latent abilities unlock whenever the Day ends with a no lynch. I'm not hinted what they are though.
Help me please?
In contrast, I kind of like this cavalier opening from Kosa.
Quote from Lil4leafclover »
@prophyaxis if we left you alone for the time being, will you reveal your latent ability to us?
Yes. I claimed to do so in my first post.
Quote from zomgarcwind »
Im not a fan of no-lynch, however if the group consensus leads there i will support it
I am really not a fan of this post. Can you explain your stance on no-lynching in more detail? It seems like you're placing higher importance with whatever the group thinks than what is actually best for town.
I also like Kosa's second post. It could just be the confirmation bias, but it feels like he actually believes that Silver is scum.
I can't tell if #124 is actually coming from newb town.. or newb scum who doesn't know how the game works? It's triggered my "too anti-town to be town" alarm bells though.
Quote from scarbo »
Sounds pretty anti-town to me.
Unvote
Vote: zomgarcwind
You think anti-town equates to scum, in this case?
Eh. I think I'm coming around to zomg actually being newb town? He genuinely believes that his plan is pro-town.
Quote from Ghosting »
Proph, do you want me alive or dead?
I don't know what you do other than your "role is the opposite of mine", which is pretty vague. Do you, like, unvanillaize people or something?
And c'mon guys, we're better than this. We never no-lynch on Day 1. People who believe that no-lynching Day 1 is optimal is not good. Stop that.
It would have been optimal in Animal, and I think it would be optimal here.
I'm reading zomgarcwind as pretty newb townie, and I am wondering why people are voting him.
Quote from Silvercrys »
Feeling better about Jack after his last few posts, so:
unvote
What exactly made you feel better about him?
Quote from Silvercrys »
Ok, Cythare needs to get out of my head.
Silver/Cythare are unaligned pairs.
I think GJ is town..ish? His frustration with tom replacing in because he is "harder to read" is like, the exact reaction I had internally in my mind, and I don't think it would be a natural one for scum to fake.
Quote from Soren »
My only issue with this is wouldn't it take forever to vanillafy every living player? I'm questioning the practicality of your role.
People will eventually get lynched or die when they get killed, which shortens the time I need to vanillaify everyone.
Quote from GJ »
It would have been optimal in Animal, and I think it would be optimal here.
Day 1 is the most important Day in the entire game. It has the most behavior to analyze, the most wagons to look at. Skipping all of that, plus a chance to lynch scum, to unlock some random abilities seems terrible.
But I don't think you'll back off on your insistence for one, so.
Ughh Mindreaver might be town after that. He's wrong about what I asked. I want general claims not exact claims. I don't want claims that "I have to vote on the third of the third post" etc. Or "Block this" or "Stop a scum kill". I just don't see Scum mindreaver knowing why I'm asking for it. Then again he might just be opposing it to oppose claims to look towny.
Also pretty much anyone who was eager to give information is probably town. So, Tom's probs town too that's a good thing guys.
I want very general groups.
No lynch
Lynch
Everything else.
Oh yeah and I'm never lynching GJ again. AA deja vu.
Also Proph I heavily disagree with using mindscrew for any game comparison that Town was heavily done with the game, most of the people playing were no longer playing it. As with all things there is heavily balance in the game. For example with AA, if people had listened to me mechanically wise I was right in saying that there was always a mafia being voted on by the mafia to the Jury, and that Iso was faking being roleblocked.
Yes, but the reasons you're pulling out for focusing on them, as reflected in your "five minute impression" seem extremely flimsy. It looks to me like you're reaching to establish a set of players as scum rather than actually looking for scum. There's a difference and it's important.
You realize one of the options for focusing on a cluster of players is that I can town clear the whole lot? It's not like I picked six players, rolled a die and decided X of those six were scum with X being < 5.
I guess? I'll happily cede this point, as it wasn't something that had occurred to me based on your approach.
Your interpretation of aggressive seems to actually mean blowing things out of proportion and calling them scummy though. Also, wordy nitpick about this making it seem like you're going to stop applying pressure whether or not they make you feel better, but I know that's not what you mean.
If you have read any games of mine in the past, my posting style (especially day 1) is a lot more reactive. I determine aggressive to simply being active and forcing conversation. Like I am doing right now. As far as Hunt goes, yes. Unless I just happened to throw a dart on the bullseye, Hunt statistically is not scum. You literally just described the game of mafia, as you question people you think are scummy, try to figure out their alignment, and then either back off or push forward.
What's your point?
I mean that your response seems disproportional to the events you're responding to. The second part was a joke, and I think that you misread what I wrote.
Ok, tell me more about what specifically you disliked about CFC that led to this conclusion
Starting to see why Iso is getting pissed off. I read CFC as lean scum and Soren as lean town. Both for their reactions to the no-lynch strat. One sounded more genuine and logical. The other not so much. It is only my interpretation of their motives and if I had the red glove to pin it to CFC, don't you think I would be pushing her instead of Mind?
Ok, thank you for the clarification. I just wanted to get some insight into your CFC read, since it was vague.
That answered...half of my questions...kind of. You skip past the DV part, and you know that I can't take you at your word for #1, #2 is contingent on #1, and #3 is bs, especially being only a few days in and given the surprising frequency of vote counts.
Those are the people I won't vote for today today. I don't know where you got I was suggesting they are off limits, but obviously, I am going to push against any of those or form a counterwagon.
I skipped past the DV part because the answer is ******* obvious: I'm town reading DV. Are you actually sure my list is bad, or did you just not read it?
#3 is not bull*****. All that proves is that several players here might take advantage of the minimum posting rules.
[/quote]No ***** you're townreading D_V. That is obvious, and my question was what led to him being a townread. I will continue to disagree with your assessment of #3. And yes, I am sure about your list.
Then share these. Your "list" you provided looks, frankly, fake.
A list I was under no pressure to make, that deviating from significantly looks fake.
Yeah, ok. Let's see your list then. Run through the player list and give me your reads.
I'm going to pass on this. scarbo's point about it being unsolicited is what makes it look suspect. I don't think you're unraveling, but the list itself is a red flag for me.
I'm scumreading scarbo and Cythare mostly for their terrible wagon hops from zomgarc to GJ. The null people I need more posting from them to sort out.
Man, we're going to do this again? One day you will read me correcty when I'm town.
That said, what specifically do you take issue with on the zomgarcwind to GJ switch? GJ's actions look scummy. I also feel that "wagon hop" isn't really fair - you're basically saying that none of what I've read from GJ is valid. What is leading to your town read of GJ, or is it by proxy of finding myself and scarbo scummy (which is because of our bad jumps to GJ)?
Ughh Mindreaver might be town after that. He's wrong about what I asked. I want general claims not exact claims. I don't want claims that "I have to vote on the third of the third post" etc. Or "Block this" or "Stop a scum kill". I just don't see Scum mindreaver knowing why I'm asking for it. Then again he might just be opposing it to oppose claims to look towny.
Also pretty much anyone who was eager to give information is probably town. So, Tom's probs town too that's a good thing guys.
I want very general groups.
No lynch
Lynch
Everything else.
Oh yeah and I'm never lynching GJ again. AA deja vu.
Yo Cynth can I get a scum game from you?
Now that I can talk, unlike the last game, it's Cyth please, not Cynth. That said, my Mafia Stats page is up to date (since I can keep it up to date with my magical forum powers). I haven't been scum in a while, unless you count neutrals, but I also took some time off. Here are some:
Hm. I ~think I'm okay with Mindreaver now? The "I was gonna vote zomg" is eh, but not a huge deal.
Wow there are a lot of players in this game.
I kinda like Ghosting and Clover. Clover had some newb-ish/genuine vibes but I might have to double-check their experience. Someone said GJ feels the way he did in AA, which I will +1.
Vaimes
Prophylaxis
Silvercrys3467
zomgarcwind
Ghosting
Lil4leafclover
Gentleman Johnny
[all other players]
Let's get the easy one out of the way next.
Huntzilla: what are you? Also talk about your four strongest reads and why you have them, once you've caught up.
Ughh Mindreaver might be town after that. He's wrong about what I asked. I want general claims not exact claims. I don't want claims that "I have to vote on the third of the third post" etc. Or "Block this" or "Stop a scum kill". I just don't see Scum mindreaver knowing why I'm asking for it. Then again he might just be opposing it to oppose claims to look towny.
Also pretty much anyone who was eager to give information is probably town. So, Tom's probs town too that's a good thing guys.
I want very general groups.
No lynch
Lynch
Everything else.
Oh yeah and I'm never lynching GJ again. AA deja vu.
I also feel that "wagon hop" isn't really fair - you're basically saying that none of what I've read from GJ is valid. What is leading to your town read of GJ, or is it by proxy of finding myself and scarbo scummy (which is because of our bad jumps to GJ)?
You (obviously) will argue that your switch is valid, but it doesn't make his point that you're hopping wagons invalid. The answer someone who is being called out for switching wagons is always that they had reason to, otherwise they'd just be admitting they're scum (or are just bad). Essentially, your defense is bad, and your conclusion is then to cast shade by saying that it's just a proxy of finding you scummy.
I also feel that "wagon hop" isn't really fair - you're basically saying that none of what I've read from GJ is valid. What is leading to your town read of GJ, or is it by proxy of finding myself and scarbo scummy (which is because of our bad jumps to GJ)?
You (obviously) will argue that your switch is valid, but it doesn't make his point that you're hopping wagons invalid. The answer someone who is being called out for switching wagons is always that they had reason to, otherwise they'd just be admitting they're scum (or are just bad). Essentially, your defense is bad, and your conclusion is then to cast shade by saying that it's just a proxy of finding you scummy.
Just something I found interesting.
My "defense" is low-effort, because I don't think that additional explanation is necessary. I provide my logic in my posts, and finding one player's actions scummy and voting them, then switching to one other player that I also found scummy is hardly "wagon hopping". If a rehash of my logic behind my votes is needed, I'll provide it. I don't see why it doesn't just speak for itself.
And the first paragraph "Man, we're going to do this again? One day you will read me correcty when I'm town." is because Proph always thinks I'm scum. That aside, I'm trying to get an understanding of which read(s) led to what or if they're related at all. I want to understand Proph's reads in greater detail. He mentions part of his townread on GJ coming from "genuine frustration" on tomsloger replacing in - that's the only other mention of town!GJ that I can find from Proph, and I'd be kinda surprised if it carried that much weight, but maybe it does for him.
My "defense" is low-effort, because I don't think that additional explanation is necessary. I provide my logic in my posts, and finding one player's actions scummy and voting them, then switching to one other player that I also found scummy is hardly "wagon hopping". If a rehash of my logic behind my votes is needed, I'll provide it. I don't see why it doesn't just speak for itself.
And the first paragraph "Man, we're going to do this again? One day you will read me correcty when I'm town." is because Proph always thinks I'm scum. That aside, I'm trying to get an understanding of which read(s) led to what or if they're related at all. I want to understand Proph's reads in greater detail. He mentions part of his townread on GJ coming from "genuine frustration" on tomsloger replacing in - that's the only other mention of town!GJ that I can find from Proph, and I'd be kinda surprised if it carried that much weight, but maybe it does for him.
Thank you for your response, I'm actually quite happy with it.
I'm going to the gym, will be back with some more thoughts later!
I don't think Cyth jumped wagons just for the fun of it. That being said the jump is very very weak, and I have to wonder if it is to appear active/engaged rather than for good reasons.
The fact that I need to go back and reread what GJ is being accused of, makes me think that it isn't very strong or interesting for making a scum case versus him. After watching Cyth's SK game and then reading through some games I feel like tabling him till a later date is fine. Early game strong, after that it seems to be easier to get reads etc.
My "defense" is low-effort, because I don't think that additional explanation is necessary. I provide my logic in my posts, and finding one player's actions scummy and voting them, then switching to one other player that I also found scummy is hardly "wagon hopping". If a rehash of my logic behind my votes is needed, I'll provide it. I don't see why it doesn't just speak for itself.
And the first paragraph "Man, we're going to do this again? One day you will read me correcty when I'm town." is because Proph always thinks I'm scum. That aside, I'm trying to get an understanding of which read(s) led to what or if they're related at all. I want to understand Proph's reads in greater detail. He mentions part of his townread on GJ coming from "genuine frustration" on tomsloger replacing in - that's the only other mention of town!GJ that I can find from Proph, and I'd be kinda surprised if it carried that much weight, but maybe it does for him.
Thank you for your response, I'm actually quite happy with it.
I'm going to the gym, will be back with some more thoughts later!
Hm. I ~think I'm okay with Mindreaver now? The "I was gonna vote zomg" is eh, but not a huge deal.
Wow there are a lot of players in this game.
I kinda like Ghosting and Clover. Clover had some newb-ish/genuine vibes but I might have to double-check their experience. Someone said GJ feels the way he did in AA, which I will +1.
Vaimes
Prophylaxis
Silvercrys3467
zomgarcwind
Ghosting
Lil4leafclover
Gentleman Johnny
[all other players]
Let's get the easy one out of the way next.
Huntzilla: what are you? Also talk about your four strongest reads and why you have them, once you've caught up.
Aside from busy, and feeling playful, I am the towniest town that has towned in quite a while. You all will see. It won't be very easy to hide...
I am fully caught up.
4 Top reads...
I mean, we have barely begun, but I can confidently say that Proph is not town. I believe his neutral claim totally, and I have no desire for him to perish.
Silver seems in his town range. There are several new faces, and an oldie that I didn't even know I missed in Scarbo. How's it going Scarbo?
I like Cythare and where his head is at so far. His posting restriction (true or not) is a little distracting, which I usually view as anti-town, but I am not getting any ill will resonating off his posts.
As for the no-lynch/pro-lynch discussion. I am pro-lynch in my latent trigger, and I am also against no-lynching on day 1. There are times where I might go for it, but I don't see the benefit for us here. Unlocking abilities would be cool but I believe there will be a better time to utilize the no lynch later on down the road.
@GJ why the hate my friend? What did I do this time?
I am not really sure who the heck is scum quite yet. I could see Zomgarcwind as a potential new-to-site scum, but I also can see where his posts are just newb.period.
I thought I already did but yeah, I'm neutral. It's what making me lol at the people who are voting for me (because they clearly haven't read my posts).
You've played with me...right? I do this as town, scum, neutral, etc. I like when people give me good responses, and it's just how I talk.
Also, again, I'm neutral.
I like that's he's casting about for opinions. Super unagenda-ey set of reads, like he got asked and came up with sone basedan on his reading.
No ulterior motive that I can see.
He's making sense but not ostentatiously.
Saying scummy ***** like it won't be easy to hide but not even making it a thing
Reading gj through the lens of his huntz read
Yup. Town huntz.
The usual disclaimer that he's self aware of his own tells since i waxed poetic on them in prisoners and twinborn. But I'm not seeing him doing these things intentionally rn.
(I genuinely won't quadruple post again, or at least will make an effort not to, I'm just used to being able to post a million times on MU.)
D_V's reasons for wanting me lynched:
1) "Forced" interaction with Cythare. Keep in mind: I'm a claimed neutral. This is in post #279.
2) Me asking GJ for elaboration on his WIFOM post because I didn't see that he already responded to someone else asking. He claimed it was a "permanent" fishing expedition on my behalf, despite me just asking once.
And that's it! Strong wagon, right?
Additionally, he's found Cythare scummy, Mindreaver scummy, and that's all I remember off the top of my head but there may be more (and also may not!).
D_V: Do you feel those are strong reasons? Or is your reason hinging on me not voting Proph? Because you understand that he explained himself in a way that made me content with him, right? Or did you ignore that?
I did but if it's exactly opposite of your win con, then you should be instant voting proph and never removing it.
Just addressed this in the post I thought was a quadruple post (ty guys for posting so I don't get a spam warning, lol), let me know if I need to further expand. He said that if he vanillifies someone, it doesn't get rid of their latent. I only care about latents. If you didn't see that, I hope now you do, but if you did, then you're bringing it up malevolently.
I'm actually going to go ahead and place my vote on Hunt though, for this post:
Quote from Huntzilla »
I am not really sure who the heck is scum quite yet. I could see Zomgarcwind as a potential new-to-site scum, but I also can see where his posts are just newb.period.
I think I would like to go with Vote Ghosting.
This to me reads as: "Everyone said Zomg might be scum but might be town, so I'll say that too. I'll go ahead and vote Ghosting for no reason since that's trendy enough."
Ghosting talk to proph. You are neutrals with at least mildly opposing roles/wincons.
I want you to figure out what that means.
I thought I already did? As long as he's telling the truth, he can stay alive. I can win with or without him, so it doesn't really bother me. Once he clarified the latent thing it made me feel a lot better.
He has absolutely no reason to question his zomg read if he's scum. He'd either be bussing or going for a newbie mislynch. Either way, hedging there looks bad and scumhuntz wouldn't do it.
You realize one of the options for focusing on a cluster of players is that I can town clear the whole lot? It's not like I picked six players, rolled a die and decided X of those six were scum with X being < 5.
If you have read any games of mine in the past, my posting style (especially day 1) is a lot more reactive. I determine aggressive to simply being active and forcing conversation. Like I am doing right now. As far as Hunt goes, yes. Unless I just happened to throw a dart on the bullseye, Hunt statistically is not scum. You literally just described the game of mafia, as you question people you think are scummy, try to figure out their alignment, and then either back off or push forward.
What's your point?
Starting to see why Iso is getting pissed off. I read CFC as lean scum and Soren as lean town. Both for their reactions to the no-lynch strat. One sounded more genuine and logical. The other not so much. It is only my interpretation of their motives and if I had the red glove to pin it to CFC, don't you think I would be pushing her instead of Mind?
Those are the people I won't vote for today today. I don't know where you got I was suggesting they are off limits, but obviously, I am going to push against any of those or form a counterwagon.
I skipped past the DV part because the answer is ******* obvious: I'm town reading DV. Are you actually sure my list is bad, or did you just not read it?
#3 is not bull*****. All that proves is that several players here might take advantage of the minimum posting rules.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
A list I was under no pressure to make, that deviating from significantly looks fake.
Yeah, ok. Let's see your list then. Run through the player list and give me your reads.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I don't unravel. And even if I did, it isn't alignment indicative.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
My god, I have so much to catch up on.
Meh, I don't have to be clear in my motives for every vote. If this raises eyebrows... good. I can't help but think my vote on you generated a lot of this attention/conversation today. So it was a total win.
And in ever game except the one I was scum and did it for appearances, I was serious. Animal Mafia had a similar set-up where everyone was a guaranteed PR. Cythare has played in exactly one game with me, and I don't believe I brought up no-lynch in the Invitational.
As far as your motives...are you joking? You thinking a vote is good means you agree with the read, or the conclusion reached with it. You didn't even know why he did it, and your two options weren't necessarily the only ones possible. And no, generating attention is NOT a good thing if the attention is negative. Like what I am getting (that said, my goal isn't to draw attention, but it's happening anyway).
How do you not see the problem I have with your comment towards DV's post? This entire game is based on reading reasons and interactions without other players.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I NEED A HEEEEEEROOOOOO
I'M HOLDING OUT FOR A HERO TILL THE END OF THE NIGHT
The GJ way path to no lynching:
This isn't out of his scum range though and he knows it
I don't see the scum in this fight.
Hey jack, what sites do you play on?
do you or do you not think you're bursting apart into tiny pieces?
My scum range is not active posting on day 1.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I mean, I am irritated. Bursting apart/unraveling? Not worth it to me. Not over a game of mafia.
I would sub out before I ever tilted. And I subbed out exactly one time in my several years here, and it was after I got mega burned out.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Take a look at Mind Screw - scum!tom and scum!killjoy in that game were able to avoid the lynch for so long because ALL they did (and the town) was talk about what the heck was going on with the game because of the incessant mechanics discussion. There was absolutely no behavioral analysis done that game, and as such we had to rely on the SK to take them out when we were putting our heads in the ground buying up everything the scum were saying. I see this game taking a similar path (fixation on mechanics) and it's the last thing we need right now.
I know I'm sort of responsible for that due to my role, but I can't control what role I got randomized or even that this role was designed in the first place, so we should really focus on analysis to root out the scum instead of worrying about abilities.
Pretty decent number of experienced players here, as well as you and Jack coming onto this site. Plus, my good friend Atogaholic is hosting this game, and I wouldn't want to let him down.
What was your purpose of asking this question? What did you hope to gain from it?
I really don't see not responding to "are you scum" as failing a reaction test. It doesn't seem like a good rationale to hunt the scum with, at least.
In contrast, I kind of like this cavalier opening from Kosa.
Yes. I claimed to do so in my first post.
I am really not a fan of this post. Can you explain your stance on no-lynching in more detail? It seems like you're placing higher importance with whatever the group thinks than what is actually best for town.
I also like Kosa's second post. It could just be the confirmation bias, but it feels like he actually believes that Silver is scum.
I can't tell if #124 is actually coming from newb town.. or newb scum who doesn't know how the game works? It's triggered my "too anti-town to be town" alarm bells though.
You think anti-town equates to scum, in this case?
Eh. I think I'm coming around to zomg actually being newb town? He genuinely believes that his plan is pro-town.
I don't know what you do other than your "role is the opposite of mine", which is pretty vague. Do you, like, unvanillaize people or something?
And c'mon guys, we're better than this. We never no-lynch on Day 1. People who believe that no-lynching Day 1 is optimal is not good. Stop that.
It would have been optimal in Animal, and I think it would be optimal here.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
What exactly made you feel better about him?
Silver/Cythare are unaligned pairs.
I think GJ is town..ish? His frustration with tom replacing in because he is "harder to read" is like, the exact reaction I had internally in my mind, and I don't think it would be a natural one for scum to fake.
People will eventually get lynched or die when they get killed, which shortens the time I need to vanillaify everyone.
Day 1 is the most important Day in the entire game. It has the most behavior to analyze, the most wagons to look at. Skipping all of that, plus a chance to lynch scum, to unlock some random abilities seems terrible.
But I don't think you'll back off on your insistence for one, so.
UNQUESTIONABLY NEUTRAL THUS FAR: Prophylaxis
I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH LYNCHING: Silvercrys, Kosakosa, Gentleman Johnny, zomgarcwind
NULL: Vaimes, Huntzilla, tomsloger, Mindreaver, Ghosting, shadowlancerx, Jackrito, Lil4leafclover, Soren, D_V
I'M OKAY WITH LYNCHING: Cythare, scarbo
Vote Cythare
I'm scumreading scarbo and Cythare mostly for their terrible wagon hops from zomgarc to GJ. The null people I need more posting from them to sort out.
Also pretty much anyone who was eager to give information is probably town. So, Tom's probs town too that's a good thing guys.
I want very general groups.
No lynch
Lynch
Everything else.
Oh yeah and I'm never lynching GJ again. AA deja vu.
Yo Cynth can I get a scum game from you?
Vote Gentleman Johnny
I guess? I'll happily cede this point, as it wasn't something that had occurred to me based on your approach.
I mean that your response seems disproportional to the events you're responding to. The second part was a joke, and I think that you misread what I wrote.
Ok, thank you for the clarification. I just wanted to get some insight into your CFC read, since it was vague.
[/quote]No ***** you're townreading D_V. That is obvious, and my question was what led to him being a townread. I will continue to disagree with your assessment of #3. And yes, I am sure about your list. I'm going to pass on this. scarbo's point about it being unsolicited is what makes it look suspect. I don't think you're unraveling, but the list itself is a red flag for me.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Vote Gentleman Johnny
Man, we're going to do this again? One day you will read me correcty when I'm town.
That said, what specifically do you take issue with on the zomgarcwind to GJ switch? GJ's actions look scummy. I also feel that "wagon hop" isn't really fair - you're basically saying that none of what I've read from GJ is valid. What is leading to your town read of GJ, or is it by proxy of finding myself and scarbo scummy (which is because of our bad jumps to GJ)?
Now that I can talk, unlike the last game, it's Cyth please, not Cynth. That said, my Mafia Stats page is up to date (since I can keep it up to date with my magical forum powers). I haven't been scum in a while, unless you count neutrals, but I also took some time off. Here are some:
Mafia:
Futurama (ended Dec 2013)
Empire of Astarte (ended Oct 2013)
Anti-Town Neutral (other than STMU4):
Iji Mafia (ended Jan 2015, wasn't technically anti-town, but treated as such)
STMU3 (ended Feb 2015)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Wow there are a lot of players in this game.
I kinda like Ghosting and Clover. Clover had some newb-ish/genuine vibes but I might have to double-check their experience. Someone said GJ feels the way he did in AA, which I will +1.
Vaimes
Prophylaxis
Silvercrys3467
zomgarcwind
Ghosting
Lil4leafclover
Gentleman Johnny
[all other players]
Let's get the easy one out of the way next.
Huntzilla: what are you? Also talk about your four strongest reads and why you have them, once you've caught up.
Unvote
>_>
<_<
You (obviously) will argue that your switch is valid, but it doesn't make his point that you're hopping wagons invalid. The answer someone who is being called out for switching wagons is always that they had reason to, otherwise they'd just be admitting they're scum (or are just bad). Essentially, your defense is bad, and your conclusion is then to cast shade by saying that it's just a proxy of finding you scummy.
Just something I found interesting.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Vote Gentleman Johnny
My "defense" is low-effort, because I don't think that additional explanation is necessary. I provide my logic in my posts, and finding one player's actions scummy and voting them, then switching to one other player that I also found scummy is hardly "wagon hopping". If a rehash of my logic behind my votes is needed, I'll provide it. I don't see why it doesn't just speak for itself.
And the first paragraph "Man, we're going to do this again? One day you will read me correcty when I'm town." is because Proph always thinks I'm scum. That aside, I'm trying to get an understanding of which read(s) led to what or if they're related at all. I want to understand Proph's reads in greater detail. He mentions part of his townread on GJ coming from "genuine frustration" on tomsloger replacing in - that's the only other mention of town!GJ that I can find from Proph, and I'd be kinda surprised if it carried that much weight, but maybe it does for him.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Thank you for your response, I'm actually quite happy with it.
I'm going to the gym, will be back with some more thoughts later!
@Proph: You're on the right track (re:post #263).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
The fact that I need to go back and reread what GJ is being accused of, makes me think that it isn't very strong or interesting for making a scum case versus him. After watching Cyth's SK game and then reading through some games I feel like tabling him till a later date is fine. Early game strong, after that it seems to be easier to get reads etc.
God,
This feels like forced interaction.
I think I'm pretty happy with a ghosting lynch.
Aside from busy, and feeling playful, I am the towniest town that has towned in quite a while. You all will see. It won't be very easy to hide...
I am fully caught up.
4 Top reads...
I mean, we have barely begun, but I can confidently say that Proph is not town. I believe his neutral claim totally, and I have no desire for him to perish.
Silver seems in his town range. There are several new faces, and an oldie that I didn't even know I missed in Scarbo. How's it going Scarbo?
I like Cythare and where his head is at so far. His posting restriction (true or not) is a little distracting, which I usually view as anti-town, but I am not getting any ill will resonating off his posts.
As for the no-lynch/pro-lynch discussion. I am pro-lynch in my latent trigger, and I am also against no-lynching on day 1. There are times where I might go for it, but I don't see the benefit for us here. Unlocking abilities would be cool but I believe there will be a better time to utilize the no lynch later on down the road.
@GJ why the hate my friend? What did I do this time?
I am not really sure who the heck is scum quite yet. I could see Zomgarcwind as a potential new-to-site scum, but I also can see where his posts are just newb.period.
I think I would like to go with Vote Ghosting.
I just picked a random low poster, you lost the draw.
Like your last post though.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I thought I already did but yeah, I'm neutral. It's what making me lol at the people who are voting for me (because they clearly haven't read my posts).
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I'm triple posting but it's me so it's okay.
You've played with me...right? I do this as town, scum, neutral, etc. I like when people give me good responses, and it's just how I talk.
Also, again, I'm neutral.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
No ulterior motive that I can see.
He's making sense but not ostentatiously.
Saying scummy ***** like it won't be easy to hide but not even making it a thing
Reading gj through the lens of his huntz read
Yup. Town huntz.
The usual disclaimer that he's self aware of his own tells since i waxed poetic on them in prisoners and twinborn. But I'm not seeing him doing these things intentionally rn.
This is the convo we need to see
D_V's reasons for wanting me lynched:
1) "Forced" interaction with Cythare. Keep in mind: I'm a claimed neutral. This is in post #279.
2) Me asking GJ for elaboration on his WIFOM post because I didn't see that he already responded to someone else asking. He claimed it was a "permanent" fishing expedition on my behalf, despite me just asking once.
And that's it! Strong wagon, right?
Additionally, he's found Cythare scummy, Mindreaver scummy, and that's all I remember off the top of my head but there may be more (and also may not!).
D_V: Do you feel those are strong reasons? Or is your reason hinging on me not voting Proph? Because you understand that he explained himself in a way that made me content with him, right? Or did you ignore that?
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
Just addressed this in the post I thought was a quadruple post (ty guys for posting so I don't get a spam warning, lol), let me know if I need to further expand. He said that if he vanillifies someone, it doesn't get rid of their latent. I only care about latents. If you didn't see that, I hope now you do, but if you did, then you're bringing it up malevolently.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I want you to figure out what that means.
This to me reads as: "Everyone said Zomg might be scum but might be town, so I'll say that too. I'll go ahead and vote Ghosting for no reason since that's trendy enough."
Vote: Huntzilla
Let's see where this goes!
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I thought I already did? As long as he's telling the truth, he can stay alive. I can win with or without him, so it doesn't really bother me. Once he clarified the latent thing it made me feel a lot better.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1
I'll unvote him if you can explain how the post I referenced isn't super scummy. This one:
Maybe I'd get less votes if I just start posting GIFs and nothing else.
Mafia Stats 2016-2017:
Town: 1-0 | Scum: 2-0 | Neutral: 1-1