I'm obviously ready for a nacho lynch. If he's town though... I think I'd have to look at sliver again based on night actions. Which is why I'm fairly confident in the scumflip
I'm obviously ready for a nacho lynch. If he's town though... I think I'd have to look at sliver again based on night actions. Which is why I'm fairly confident in the scumflip
If he's town, you're almost certainly scum. Sorry, I'm not buying a ninja in this setup when scum have multiple double kills.
I'm obviously ready for a nacho lynch. If he's town though... I think I'd have to look at sliver again based on night actions. Which is why I'm fairly confident in the scumflip
If he's town, you're almost certainly scum. Sorry, I'm not buying a ninja in this setup when scum have multiple double kills.
me, dv, and silver have already been over this for if the extra kill is an action. Nacho and silver are the only ones that could have performed it both nights.
But yeah I think nacho is most likely whether its an action or a passive ability
I mean, my ability can only be a lie if I'm w/w with shadow, but dv saw me target shadow (and no one else) so even then I'd have had to target him with *something* so I'm not exactly sure how you think that rodemy
Unless you think I just had a governor to give out with a posting restriction attached and decided to pretend I made it up for whatever the opposite of towncred is
Think that we can break the game with a no lynch; if tom is scum, then he doesn't have the ability that he claims to have (way, way too strong) and if he's scum he will have no way to reasonably fake it.
Nacho - Gladiator
Shadow - Rolecop
Silver - Tells alignments in twilight
Tom - Anything
Hunt - Bomb Exchange
DV - Watcher/Tracker
Cantrip - Doublevoter
Tom gives Cantrip this:
Once per game during the day, you can use the following ability:
*Smart Bomb: Once you choose to arm this bomb, Iso will make an announcement that you have armed a bomb protecting yourself if you are targeted with a kill, you will take your killer with you to the grave. This bomb will not arm if you have a Horseman ability.
I don't think this is a broken role due to the public nature of it and due to the fact that it can be roleblocked fairly simply, but I'd suggest that you clear it with Iso before night; if he denies the role then you should be able to take off the last caveat and be perfectly fine (since it would then be equivalent in strength to Huntzilla's ability.
Huntzilla targets me with the Bomb exchange ability and I reject - if I am a scum PGO, this should mean that I trigger Huntzilla's bomb and we die together - otherwise, it still confirms me as non-PGO.
DV targets tom - this means that scum cannot roleblock or kill him safely without going through DV (and if scum roleblock DV, that allows the ability to go through on Cantrip which leaves us a unkillable confirmed town that could conceivably endgame the last scum alone.
Shadow rolecops tom - this confirms his ability (since ability confirmed = alignment confirmed) - this means that even if his invention to Cantrip fails, tom will still be confirmed as town.
Think that we can break the game with a no lynch; if tom is scum, then he doesn't have the ability that he claims to have (way, way too strong) and if he's scum he will have no way to reasonably fake it.
so if my role is real, I have to be town
Which leaves the zion kill at you being pgo or ninja which you don't believe in
And no lynch was bad before but now it can break the game when the choices are you or no lynch
That plan gives scum two paths that aren't completely horrible if they don't have any more double kills - roleblock tom, kill DV OR roleblock DV, kill tom - even if they have the ninja double killer they can't roleblock tom without DV seeing them (unless shadow can roleblock and rolecop, but if we feel uncomfortable about this possibility we can always have him target someone else - I don't). If they choose the first path, tom still being alive and confirmed town is a big enough boon to us. If they choose the second path, then we have Cantrip and DV both alive as our consolation prize.
If they do still have double kills accessible to them (which seems incredibly unlikely if they have ninja double kills), they can shoot DV and they can shoot tom and if they have a roleblocker on top of that then they could roleblock tom too, but I'd expect that if they had a roleblocker they would have roleblocked him when he first started crumbing his insanely powerful role and we'd still escape with Cantrip the unkillable doublevoter and so everything wouldn't be all bad.
This means we're likely looking at one of three different scenarios tomorrow:
1)
Nacho - Gladiator
Shadow - Rolecop
Silver - Tells alignments in twilight
Rodemy - Loverizer
Tom - Anything CONFIRMED TOWN
Hunt - Bomb Exchange
Cantrip - Doublevoter
2)
Nacho - Gladiator
Shadow - Rolecop
Silver - Tells alignments in twilight
Rodemy - Loverizer
Hunt - Bomb Exchange
DV - Watcher/Tracker
Cantrip - Unkillable Doublevoter CONFIRMED TOWN
If they don't have a roleblocker (and evidence implies that they don't) -
3)
Nacho - Gladiator
Shadow - Rolecop
Silver - Tells alignments in twilight
Rodemy - Loverizer
Tom - Anything CONFIRMED TOWN
Hunt - Bomb Exchange
Cantrip - Unkillable Doublevoter CONFIRMED TOWN
If tom is alive with Rodemy/Silver, then he should give one of them the following ability:
Once per game during the day, you can use the following ability:
*A Healthier Relationship: Once you choose to use this ability, Iso will make an announcement confirming that you have used this ability. Any passive ability that would cause you to die when another player does is removed. You cannot use this ability if they have a Horsemen ability.
If tom is alive with Huntzilla, then Huntzilla targets tom and tom decides whether he wants to switch or not (optimal play is to make scum think that you're flipping a coin).
If DV is alive with Huntzilla, then Huntzilla targets DV and DV decides whether he wants to switch or not.
And no these aren't perfect plans (mostly working from memory, some interactions need to be confirmed/denied), but I'm fairly confident that we can break the game from here if we're pushing the envelope and getting creative with tom's ability (and if tom is trying to fake his ability at this point then he's pretty much sunk himself for basically no reason at all).
Think that we can break the game with a no lynch; if tom is scum, then he doesn't have the ability that he claims to have (way, way too strong) and if he's scum he will have no way to reasonably fake it.
so if my role is real, I have to be town
Which leaves the zion kill at you being pgo or ninja which you don't believe in
And no lynch was bad before but now it can break the game when the choices are you or no lynch
No lynch was bad when you were just a governizor.
It can break the game when you have the ability to do whatever you want.
Well my role says I can't make Iso do anything so that gift doesn't work
Shadow confirming my role again doesn't make any sense
Huntz said he can't swap again
Not to mention that huntz is one of your possibletter partners so I wouldn't accept that clear anyway
So yeah that action plan is full of holes
Iso says you can't "make him do anything" - make him explain what this means. Does that mean there can't be any loud roles (so friendly neighbor would be out of the realm of possibility, innocent child illegal)?
Huntz says he can't swap again - would like to get an explanation for how exactly his role is worded (once per game, you may make an offer) and if he could only make one offer why exactly he decided to use it immediately and make himself a bomb?
It wouldn't be a clear and never argued it would be - it would just be getting rid of one scenario in particular.
And I don't understand how you can't see how "I can do anything that I want" changes my perspective towards the game - parity cops, roleblock + cop, king roles, public roles, confirmable roles, roles with certain conditions, motivators, rewinders, revivers - your role is the strongest role possible since it can adapt to whatever we need it to become - do you really not understand why I would think that we'd be able to break the game from here?
well it cant be investigative, or killing, or make iso do anything, or be broken. but i agree its pretty powerful.
ive mostly thought about some kind of revive for the next use. the bigger problem is figuring out who to give it to.
i havent asked iso yet if i can make activating it suicidal, which would make it pretty interesting
but calling my target seems like nothing but bad.
but straight up nacho, if youre town it can only be:
1: DV is lying but only partially
2: silver is scum (and either is ninja himself or shadow or rodemy is his buddy and they are ninja because he confirms both of their actions)
if you think im town now you have to believe one of those things.
If Cantrip is town though it almost certainly means scum in Tammy/Huntzilla. If Zionite is town too then it means my reads are pretty ****ed in general which means that the hard reset that I've been trying to pump myself up to do will become absolutely necessary. If Tammy was actually scum here then I'll be pretty disappointed in parts of her play; I mean I'm okay with people emotionally manipulating and all that because it's a game and god knows I enjoy the manipulative aspect but I personally feel like she would have gone too far here and don't think she'd do that to me.
any update on this nacho?
still believe in either cantrip or huntz?
weird youre trying to clear both now
really i just have no idea who you think is scum anymore. and youve made a bunch of plans now that... lock the game by clearing everyone? i must have that wrong
Like. Huntz already used his only trade shot, I'm pretty sure. And tom's abilities can't make Iso do things like announcements. And D_V, Cantrip, and shadow have to be town, meaning only Huntz is available scum out of shadow/Huntz/Cantrip which were his scum reads a minute ago.
Well my role says I can't make Iso do anything so that gift doesn't work
Shadow confirming my role again doesn't make any sense
Huntz said he can't swap again
Not to mention that huntz is one of your possibletter partners so I wouldn't accept that clear anyway
So yeah that action plan is full of holes
Iso says you can't "make him do anything" - make him explain what this means. Does that mean there can't be any loud roles (so friendly neighbor would be out of the realm of possibility, innocent child illegal)?
Huntz says he can't swap again - would like to get an explanation for how exactly his role is worded (once per game, you may make an offer) and if he could only make one offer why exactly he decided to use it immediately and make himself a bomb?
It wouldn't be a clear and never argued it would be - it would just be getting rid of one scenario in particular.
worded very much like you put it. Wink wink.
Decided to do it right away in case of early nk attempt on me or person I choose. Itbhapoens once in a while. Plus making myself a bomb is awesome
well it cant be investigative, or killing, or make iso do anything, or be broken. but i agree its pretty powerful.
ive mostly thought about some kind of revive for the next use. the bigger problem is figuring out who to give it to.
i havent asked iso yet if i can make activating it suicidal, which would make it pretty interesting
but calling my target seems like nothing but bad.
but straight up nacho, if youre town it can only be:
1: DV is lying but only partially
2: silver is scum (and either is ninja himself or shadow or rodemy is his buddy and they are ninja because he confirms both of their actions)
if you think im town now you have to believe one of those things.
That's if scum can't use horsemen powers in additional to regular powers, which I don't believe is the case.
Like. Huntz already used his only trade shot, I'm pretty sure. And tom's abilities can't make Iso do things like announcements. And D_V, Cantrip, and shadow have to be town, meaning only Huntz is available scum out of shadow/Huntz/Cantrip which were his scum reads a minute ago.
Tom says that he can't make iso do anything - this is vague as hell. Need him to elaborate on what exactly he can't do - does this mean that amnesiac/loud roles aren't allowed or does this mean he can't make iso modkill people?
The point that I'm trying to hammer that I'm disappointed and surprised that no one is picking up on is that the game is very likely breakable from this point forward - the best advantage of having a role like this out in the open is most people being able to think about it.
Like. Huntz already used his only trade shot, I'm pretty sure. And tom's abilities can't make Iso do things like announcements. And D_V, Cantrip, and shadow have to be town, meaning only Huntz is available scum out of shadow/Huntz/Cantrip which were his scum reads a minute ago.
Tom says that he can't make iso do anything - this is vague as hell. Need him to elaborate on what exactly he can't do - does this mean that amnesiac/loud roles aren't allowed or does this mean he can't make iso modkill people?
I think we can pretty reasonably assume that "anything" just means "anything" - there's not much functional difference between forcing him to modkill someone and a vig shot or something. But hey, we've got like two more days, so if tom wants to ask I don't really care I guess.
What do you think having D_V watch tom will accomplish? If you're not a PGO, either D_V is scum or there's a ninja. Either way the scum team probably just kills tom without being caught, right? I guess there's a chance they used a 1-shot Ninja to kill Zionite or something, but...
If Cantrip is town though it almost certainly means scum in Tammy/Huntzilla. If Zionite is town too then it means my reads are pretty ****ed in general which means that the hard reset that I've been trying to pump myself up to do will become absolutely necessary. If Tammy was actually scum here then I'll be pretty disappointed in parts of her play; I mean I'm okay with people emotionally manipulating and all that because it's a game and god knows I enjoy the manipulative aspect but I personally feel like she would have gone too far here and don't think she'd do that to me.
any update on this nacho?
still believe in either cantrip or huntz?
weird youre trying to clear both now
really i just have no idea who you think is scum anymore. and youve made a bunch of plans now that... lock the game by clearing everyone? i must have that wrong
I answered this question the last time you asked it. Is there something about my answer that I can expand on in order to make it clearer to you?
The plans lock the game by either clearing a majority of players (meaning there's guaranteed scum in the minority that we will have the lynches to handle), or put scum in a position where they won't be able to clear themselves and be caught as a result - this is the basic principle behind a game breaking plan. I'm not trying to clear Cantrip, I'm putting him in a position where if he's town he's cleared and if he's scum he's caught.
If Cantrip is town though it almost certainly means scum in Tammy/Huntzilla. If Zionite is town too then it means my reads are pretty ****ed in general which means that the hard reset that I've been trying to pump myself up to do will become absolutely necessary. If Tammy was actually scum here then I'll be pretty disappointed in parts of her play; I mean I'm okay with people emotionally manipulating and all that because it's a game and god knows I enjoy the manipulative aspect but I personally feel like she would have gone too far here and don't think she'd do that to me.
any update on this nacho?
still believe in either cantrip or huntz?
weird youre trying to clear both now
really i just have no idea who you think is scum anymore. and youve made a bunch of plans now that... lock the game by clearing everyone? i must have that wrong
I answered this question the last time you asked it. Is there something about my answer that I can expand on in order to make it clearer to you?
The plans lock the game by either clearing a majority of players (meaning there's guaranteed scum in the minority that we will have the lynches to handle), or put scum in a position where they won't be able to clear themselves and be caught as a result - this is the basic principle behind a game breaking plan. I'm not trying to clear Cantrip, I'm putting him in a position where if he's town he's cleared and if he's scum he's caught.
ok, i looked for me asking or you answering and could find neither. but it doesnt matter. maybe i missed it.
i just want to know who you think is scum
in addition to the read ive had all game, shadow basically proved himself town to me by a) not killing me or silver after i gave him the ability and b) happily being all cryptic with me to try to get the most benefit possible and c) rolecopping silver for the due dilligence
a and c fall down if hes scum with exactly silver. i guess. but how does that team not figure out that faking that the ability doesnt work basically always gets me lynched. and idk, maybe theyre doing that and the no lynch today is just a ruse to do that tomorrow. in that world shadow needed to keep doing the kerfuffles to make a mislynch and then me tomorrow. but then how are they not just on this nacho lynch now instead of sticking with no lynch? makes no sense.
i refuse to believe in shadow faking kerfuffle flubs. thats might be good scumplay, but its clearly the least "fun" way to do it. and i dont think thats the choice shadow makes. then again, thats exactly why a lot of people have trouble reading me- i usually choose the fun play over the good play and that freaks people out. so maybe thats not normal. but man i just hate the idea of it.
silver i think is just overall playing like hes town. which is not to say he wont eventually have a scum game where he just plods along reasonably, doing his silver thing. but i dont think this is that game. that silver/shadow team makes sense again since he would be very able to just have a plan right now. rodemy makes a minor amount of sense as his partner too. they would have taken a big risk but, well, it largely cleared both of them and that claim in lylo certainly gives them some options. still dont think he makes sense as scum with anak though, because of anak's treatment of his claim.
and, like, here's where it gets confusing
because everyone else i can absolutely see as town or scum depending on where i focus.
positionally, DV is garbage this game. terrible voting record, some bad looks in microinteractions, and has a result thats either a lie or means theres a ninja or pgonacho. which sounds crazy. but i just believe it now. because looking deeper at dv i see nothing but town. i think the best summation ive come up with is that he just doesnt look like he knows peoples' alignments.
rodemy's tunnels have seemed really genuine. but they're still terrible. even today he doesnt seem that opportunistic. he joined on nacho for a hot second but went right back to pushing whatever it is that hes currently pushing. i dont feel like i have a good read on if rodemy's stuff tracks logically because i dont really understand his logic. im kinda shrugging here, even as im trying to type. its disconcerting. i also dont see much in the way of teams for him. silver? alternate explanation for shadow not killing silver? i guess nacho works, but nothing that looks quite right.
huntzilla, too, feels like his town self. id love it if he put more work in, but hes not far from expectations realistically. there was a theory about wheat making him look good on his way out that i kind of liked, and the way he came around on nacho felt a little like a bus. maybe some huntzy things that he kept going a little longer than id expect naturally, like the push on me day 1 or whatever. but theyre still townie things.
cantrip pretty much only has role going for him imo. he seems to think it clears him and i just dont think it does in this setup. so if it could be randed to scum... yeah i dont have any kind of townread on cantrip. again, has made good looking posts in constant catchup mode, but he hasnt made a mark on this game. and maybe hes town with limited time and just hasnt had a chance too. but if feels like always promising more and never quite delivering. theres nothing spicy there.
nacho feels like caught scum right now. scared to call anyone out. antispew. whatever. his opinion changes have just been too convenient. and its not trying to find scum with new info, its just damage control.
I need to look at nacho/wheat interactions again. I remember tammy thinking nacho could be bussing because wheat started it or something, but it was still a pretty strong attack if memory serves.
I more recently looked over the bur lynch amd nacho's comment about evaporating his townread from tammy kinda stuck out. I agree that bur was reasonably scummy but I already had the tinfoil on tammy from anak interactions. Not sure anything bur did would be enough to override a fairly strong read on a player I could actually read (aka nacho>tammy, not me>tammy even if I'd been townreading her. Like if he'd replaced shadow and done the exact same thing I feel like I'd have been there saying "hey guys, bur is lynchbait. Read this shadow post again"
But it's hard to tell from his iso just how strong the tammy read is. Idk his opinion on the replace out post seemed pretty hard.
Like. Huntz already used his only trade shot, I'm pretty sure. And tom's abilities can't make Iso do things like announcements. And D_V, Cantrip, and shadow have to be town, meaning only Huntz is available scum out of shadow/Huntz/Cantrip which were his scum reads a minute ago.
Tom says that he can't make iso do anything - this is vague as hell. Need him to elaborate on what exactly he can't do - does this mean that amnesiac/loud roles aren't allowed or does this mean he can't make iso modkill people?
I think we can pretty reasonably assume that "anything" just means "anything" - there's not much functional difference between forcing him to modkill someone and a vig shot or something. But hey, we've got like two more days, so if tom wants to ask I don't really care I guess.
What do you think having D_V watch tom will accomplish? If you're not a PGO, either D_V is scum or there's a ninja. Either way the scum team probably just kills tom without being caught, right? I guess there's a chance they used a 1-shot Ninja to kill Zionite or something, but...
I would assume that "anything" would include enforcing a post restriction, but that's not the case.
Are public roles allowed?
Are messaging roles allowed?
Are neighborizing roles allowed?
Are weak roles allowed?
Are copying roles allowed?
Are reviving roles allowed?
Does a vote manipulation role count as a killing role?
Are motivating roles allowed?
Are redirecting roles allowed?
All of these are questions that probably should have been asked by now.
As for my role usage, I'll not really be taking direction. Not like "stfu it's my role" or anything I'm gonna read and ponder any suggestion that anyone makes. I just don't think planning it out explicitly is a good idea. Especially the target. And the decision is ultimately gonna be mine.
No post restriction. But whoever gets it do me a favor and do something silly. Acting high would go well with drunk rodemy. I was toYing with the idea of every post needing a word with the sufix "-rific".
Sigh.
No mod reveals.
Rb/motivator/neighborizer I wouldn't think would be a problem.
Taking a dead players role came with caveats that can only target town and they would lose their own role. So I'm thinking having multiple roles is a no go.
Revive we talked about. Its doable.
Said yes to a bulletproof vest.
Haven't asked about weak (that's if you target scum you die, right?), vote manipulation, or messaging
If Cantrip is town, then giving him an unkillable boon would be sweet. If he is scum, we want to confirm him as such as quickly as possible.
How could we confirm him as town?
-Weak Role (not investigative)
-Giving him a role that's confirmable and can only be used by him if he's town (not investigative)
-Shadow's Governor
How could we make him unkillable?
-One-Shot Bulletproof
-Scavenge AG's Doctor role/Revive AG
-Redirection role (Bus Driver is strongest option here)
-Moving Huntzilla's bomb passive to him
Tom is either telling the truth about his role in which case he's confirmed town. If he's lying he's scum. If he is town he has the strongest role possible, and so he's our top protection target.
How can we confirm his role?
-Tom gifts what we tell him to gift and someone confirms it
-Shadow rolecops him
How can we protect him?
-DV
-Inventions for later nights
If Shadow is town, then he has a rolecop and the governor at his disposal. If he is town, he has a rolecop, a hidden ability, and the governor at his disposal.
Ways to use the rolecop:
-Confirm town
-If we can modify roles, allow it to detect everything.
Ways to use governor:
-Confirm town
-If we're afraid of him forcing a no lynch in an uncomfortable place, we can make him make a post without kerfluffle before we lynch.
If Huntzilla is town, he has a bomb swapping role that we could possibly make use of. Confirming him as town would also be a huge boon for town.
How do we make use of his role?
-Confirming him as town means that he's basically an unkillable innocent child automatically.
-Redirecting people to him means we might convince scum to kill themselves
-Refreshing his role means that we can WIFOM who has tom's role
If DV is town, our biggest problems are keeping him alive (can't do anything about that tonight) and a possible ninja.
How do we combat against ninjas?
-Ninja disabler
-Giving him a one-shot modifier to see through ninjas
silver rodemy stuff that I don't have time to go through slowly
silver/rodemy:
twilight rewinder (take us out of twilight and back to day phase which allows us to pick another lynch), governor
move the "lover" modifier rodemy put on him onto someone with a higher chance of being scum
probably more?
Gonna just go ahead and say it
Don't think my role would be taken out of the rand pool. I think it's a lot more powerful on scum, cuz they would actually know good targets amd have a better idea what they need.
I definitely think I've used it in a townie way (assuming I'm right on shadow) but post restriction and zion dying definitely undercuts that.
But the role itself I don't think is town only. Don't even think I should be a protection target over dv really unless nacho is town and we definitely have either scum DV or ninja (or something even weirder) lowering his value either way. Which I guess is what nacho believes right now so meh
Like. Huntz already used his only trade shot, I'm pretty sure. And tom's abilities can't make Iso do things like announcements. And D_V, Cantrip, and shadow have to be town, meaning only Huntz is available scum out of shadow/Huntz/Cantrip which were his scum reads a minute ago.
... yo... what's the liklyhood toms ability, as op as it is... is multishot...
Yeah... can we lynch him now?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Also, the reason your role can't be randed is because it's too powerful.
Imagine if you were town and silver was scum (both telling truth about roles). Next, if you were scum and silver was town. These are completely different games.
Next, imagine silver is scum and I am town compared to I am scum and silver is town (still telling truth about roles) - nothing significant changes.
I understand scum can make use of the role, I just sincerely doubt iso would let it go to Rand since that role + double kills basically makes it a scum win regardless of what roles he stacks against it.
Like. Huntz already used his only trade shot, I'm pretty sure. And tom's abilities can't make Iso do things like announcements. And D_V, Cantrip, and shadow have to be town, meaning only Huntz is available scum out of shadow/Huntz/Cantrip which were his scum reads a minute ago.
... yo... what's the liklyhood toms ability, as op as it is... is multishot...
Yeah... can we lynch him now?
Do you agree that if the power exists it is probably coming from town?
But you are trusting me to clear Tom, and I can already tell you that he gave me a Governor shot, which is not a scum ability. Like if I role cop him and he's been lying through his teeth and has set abilities he can give, he's still town.
Nacho isn't even listening to the people who are saying there are gaping holes in his plans. I'm pretty much done agonizing, and Tom's recent assessment of me was hugely demoralizing. I'm ready to end the day by hammering Nacho. Any objections?
I'm obviously ready for a nacho lynch. If he's town though... I think I'd have to look at sliver again based on night actions. Which is why I'm fairly confident in the scumflip
How dare you have a personal life.
Congrats!
But yeah I think nacho is most likely whether its an action or a passive ability
And used his ability on shadow to get townpoints with him. And it was a ruse between 2 scum.
Like... I don't buy toms ability one bit. Making your own abilities to give? No.
Vote tom. Kill scum.
Unless you think I just had a governor to give out with a posting restriction attached and decided to pretend I made it up for whatever the opposite of towncred is
Think that we can break the game with a no lynch; if tom is scum, then he doesn't have the ability that he claims to have (way, way too strong) and if he's scum he will have no way to reasonably fake it.
Shadow - Rolecop
Silver - Tells alignments in twilight
Tom - Anything
Hunt - Bomb Exchange
DV - Watcher/Tracker
Cantrip - Doublevoter
Tom gives Cantrip this:
I don't think this is a broken role due to the public nature of it and due to the fact that it can be roleblocked fairly simply, but I'd suggest that you clear it with Iso before night; if he denies the role then you should be able to take off the last caveat and be perfectly fine (since it would then be equivalent in strength to Huntzilla's ability.
Huntzilla targets me with the Bomb exchange ability and I reject - if I am a scum PGO, this should mean that I trigger Huntzilla's bomb and we die together - otherwise, it still confirms me as non-PGO.
DV targets tom - this means that scum cannot roleblock or kill him safely without going through DV (and if scum roleblock DV, that allows the ability to go through on Cantrip which leaves us a unkillable confirmed town that could conceivably endgame the last scum alone.
Shadow rolecops tom - this confirms his ability (since ability confirmed = alignment confirmed) - this means that even if his invention to Cantrip fails, tom will still be confirmed as town.
Which leaves the zion kill at you being pgo or ninja which you don't believe in
And no lynch was bad before but now it can break the game when the choices are you or no lynch
Shadow confirming my role again doesn't make any sense
Huntz said he can't swap again
Not to mention that huntz is one of your possibletter partners so I wouldn't accept that clear anyway
So yeah that action plan is full of holes
If they do still have double kills accessible to them (which seems incredibly unlikely if they have ninja double kills), they can shoot DV and they can shoot tom and if they have a roleblocker on top of that then they could roleblock tom too, but I'd expect that if they had a roleblocker they would have roleblocked him when he first started crumbing his insanely powerful role and we'd still escape with Cantrip the unkillable doublevoter and so everything wouldn't be all bad.
1)
Nacho - Gladiator
Shadow - Rolecop
Silver - Tells alignments in twilight
Rodemy - Loverizer
Tom - Anything CONFIRMED TOWN
Hunt - Bomb Exchange
Cantrip - Doublevoter
2)
Nacho - Gladiator
Shadow - Rolecop
Silver - Tells alignments in twilight
Rodemy - Loverizer
Hunt - Bomb Exchange
DV - Watcher/Tracker
Cantrip - Unkillable Doublevoter CONFIRMED TOWN
If they don't have a roleblocker (and evidence implies that they don't) -
3)
Nacho - Gladiator
Shadow - Rolecop
Silver - Tells alignments in twilight
Rodemy - Loverizer
Tom - Anything CONFIRMED TOWN
Hunt - Bomb Exchange
Cantrip - Unkillable Doublevoter CONFIRMED TOWN
If tom is alive with Rodemy/Silver, then he should give one of them the following ability:
If tom is alive with Huntzilla, then Huntzilla targets tom and tom decides whether he wants to switch or not (optimal play is to make scum think that you're flipping a coin).
If DV is alive with Huntzilla, then Huntzilla targets DV and DV decides whether he wants to switch or not.
No lynch was bad when you were just a governizor.
It can break the game when you have the ability to do whatever you want.
Hunt and Shadow both make sense as possible scum to me.
Cantrip would surprise me but it's still within the realm of possibility.
Iso says you can't "make him do anything" - make him explain what this means. Does that mean there can't be any loud roles (so friendly neighbor would be out of the realm of possibility, innocent child illegal)?
Huntz says he can't swap again - would like to get an explanation for how exactly his role is worded (once per game, you may make an offer) and if he could only make one offer why exactly he decided to use it immediately and make himself a bomb?
It wouldn't be a clear and never argued it would be - it would just be getting rid of one scenario in particular.
ive mostly thought about some kind of revive for the next use. the bigger problem is figuring out who to give it to.
i havent asked iso yet if i can make activating it suicidal, which would make it pretty interesting
but calling my target seems like nothing but bad.
but straight up nacho, if youre town it can only be:
1: DV is lying but only partially
2: silver is scum (and either is ninja himself or shadow or rodemy is his buddy and they are ninja because he confirms both of their actions)
if you think im town now you have to believe one of those things.
still believe in either cantrip or huntz?
weird youre trying to clear both now
really i just have no idea who you think is scum anymore. and youve made a bunch of plans now that... lock the game by clearing everyone? i must have that wrong
Assuming it does, he can confirm tom's actual role is "role genie" or whatever, which clears him because that's far, far too strong on scum.
Well, it also means you have to trust shadow, which Nacho clearly doesn't. That seems to be one of the holes in his plan.
Decided to do it right away in case of early nk attempt on me or person I choose. Itbhapoens once in a while. Plus making myself a bomb is awesome
That's if scum can't use horsemen powers in additional to regular powers, which I don't believe is the case.
Tom says that he can't make iso do anything - this is vague as hell. Need him to elaborate on what exactly he can't do - does this mean that amnesiac/loud roles aren't allowed or does this mean he can't make iso modkill people?
What do you think having D_V watch tom will accomplish? If you're not a PGO, either D_V is scum or there's a ninja. Either way the scum team probably just kills tom without being caught, right? I guess there's a chance they used a 1-shot Ninja to kill Zionite or something, but...
I answered this question the last time you asked it. Is there something about my answer that I can expand on in order to make it clearer to you?
The plans lock the game by either clearing a majority of players (meaning there's guaranteed scum in the minority that we will have the lynches to handle), or put scum in a position where they won't be able to clear themselves and be caught as a result - this is the basic principle behind a game breaking plan. I'm not trying to clear Cantrip, I'm putting him in a position where if he's town he's cleared and if he's scum he's caught.
i just want to know who you think is scum
in addition to the read ive had all game, shadow basically proved himself town to me by a) not killing me or silver after i gave him the ability and b) happily being all cryptic with me to try to get the most benefit possible and c) rolecopping silver for the due dilligence
a and c fall down if hes scum with exactly silver. i guess. but how does that team not figure out that faking that the ability doesnt work basically always gets me lynched. and idk, maybe theyre doing that and the no lynch today is just a ruse to do that tomorrow. in that world shadow needed to keep doing the kerfuffles to make a mislynch and then me tomorrow. but then how are they not just on this nacho lynch now instead of sticking with no lynch? makes no sense.
i refuse to believe in shadow faking kerfuffle flubs. thats might be good scumplay, but its clearly the least "fun" way to do it. and i dont think thats the choice shadow makes. then again, thats exactly why a lot of people have trouble reading me- i usually choose the fun play over the good play and that freaks people out. so maybe thats not normal. but man i just hate the idea of it.
silver i think is just overall playing like hes town. which is not to say he wont eventually have a scum game where he just plods along reasonably, doing his silver thing. but i dont think this is that game. that silver/shadow team makes sense again since he would be very able to just have a plan right now. rodemy makes a minor amount of sense as his partner too. they would have taken a big risk but, well, it largely cleared both of them and that claim in lylo certainly gives them some options. still dont think he makes sense as scum with anak though, because of anak's treatment of his claim.
and, like, here's where it gets confusing
because everyone else i can absolutely see as town or scum depending on where i focus.
positionally, DV is garbage this game. terrible voting record, some bad looks in microinteractions, and has a result thats either a lie or means theres a ninja or pgonacho. which sounds crazy. but i just believe it now. because looking deeper at dv i see nothing but town. i think the best summation ive come up with is that he just doesnt look like he knows peoples' alignments.
rodemy's tunnels have seemed really genuine. but they're still terrible. even today he doesnt seem that opportunistic. he joined on nacho for a hot second but went right back to pushing whatever it is that hes currently pushing. i dont feel like i have a good read on if rodemy's stuff tracks logically because i dont really understand his logic. im kinda shrugging here, even as im trying to type. its disconcerting. i also dont see much in the way of teams for him. silver? alternate explanation for shadow not killing silver? i guess nacho works, but nothing that looks quite right.
huntzilla, too, feels like his town self. id love it if he put more work in, but hes not far from expectations realistically. there was a theory about wheat making him look good on his way out that i kind of liked, and the way he came around on nacho felt a little like a bus. maybe some huntzy things that he kept going a little longer than id expect naturally, like the push on me day 1 or whatever. but theyre still townie things.
cantrip pretty much only has role going for him imo. he seems to think it clears him and i just dont think it does in this setup. so if it could be randed to scum... yeah i dont have any kind of townread on cantrip. again, has made good looking posts in constant catchup mode, but he hasnt made a mark on this game. and maybe hes town with limited time and just hasnt had a chance too. but if feels like always promising more and never quite delivering. theres nothing spicy there.
nacho feels like caught scum right now. scared to call anyone out. antispew. whatever. his opinion changes have just been too convenient. and its not trying to find scum with new info, its just damage control.
shadow
silver
dv
huntz/rodemy
cantrip
nacho
I more recently looked over the bur lynch amd nacho's comment about evaporating his townread from tammy kinda stuck out. I agree that bur was reasonably scummy but I already had the tinfoil on tammy from anak interactions. Not sure anything bur did would be enough to override a fairly strong read on a player I could actually read (aka nacho>tammy, not me>tammy even if I'd been townreading her. Like if he'd replaced shadow and done the exact same thing I feel like I'd have been there saying "hey guys, bur is lynchbait. Read this shadow post again"
But it's hard to tell from his iso just how strong the tammy read is. Idk his opinion on the replace out post seemed pretty hard.
I would assume that "anything" would include enforcing a post restriction, but that's not the case.
Are public roles allowed?
Are messaging roles allowed?
Are neighborizing roles allowed?
Are weak roles allowed?
Are copying roles allowed?
Are reviving roles allowed?
Does a vote manipulation role count as a killing role?
Are motivating roles allowed?
Are redirecting roles allowed?
All of these are questions that probably should have been asked by now.
No post restriction. But whoever gets it do me a favor and do something silly. Acting high would go well with drunk rodemy. I was toYing with the idea of every post needing a word with the sufix "-rific".
Sigh.
No mod reveals.
Rb/motivator/neighborizer I wouldn't think would be a problem.
Taking a dead players role came with caveats that can only target town and they would lose their own role. So I'm thinking having multiple roles is a no go.
Revive we talked about. Its doable.
Said yes to a bulletproof vest.
Haven't asked about weak (that's if you target scum you die, right?), vote manipulation, or messaging
Huntzilla/Shadow/Tom/Cantrip possible scum.
If Cantrip is town, then giving him an unkillable boon would be sweet. If he is scum, we want to confirm him as such as quickly as possible.
How could we confirm him as town?
-Weak Role (not investigative)
-Giving him a role that's confirmable and can only be used by him if he's town (not investigative)
-Shadow's Governor
How could we make him unkillable?
-One-Shot Bulletproof
-Scavenge AG's Doctor role/Revive AG
-Redirection role (Bus Driver is strongest option here)
-Moving Huntzilla's bomb passive to him
Tom is either telling the truth about his role in which case he's confirmed town. If he's lying he's scum. If he is town he has the strongest role possible, and so he's our top protection target.
How can we confirm his role?
-Tom gifts what we tell him to gift and someone confirms it
-Shadow rolecops him
How can we protect him?
-DV
-Inventions for later nights
If Shadow is town, then he has a rolecop and the governor at his disposal. If he is town, he has a rolecop, a hidden ability, and the governor at his disposal.
Ways to use the rolecop:
-Confirm town
-If we can modify roles, allow it to detect everything.
Ways to use governor:
-Confirm town
-If we're afraid of him forcing a no lynch in an uncomfortable place, we can make him make a post without kerfluffle before we lynch.
If Huntzilla is town, he has a bomb swapping role that we could possibly make use of. Confirming him as town would also be a huge boon for town.
How do we make use of his role?
-Confirming him as town means that he's basically an unkillable innocent child automatically.
-Redirecting people to him means we might convince scum to kill themselves
-Refreshing his role means that we can WIFOM who has tom's role
If DV is town, our biggest problems are keeping him alive (can't do anything about that tonight) and a possible ninja.
How do we combat against ninjas?
-Ninja disabler
-Giving him a one-shot modifier to see through ninjas
silver/rodemy:
twilight rewinder (take us out of twilight and back to day phase which allows us to pick another lynch), governor
move the "lover" modifier rodemy put on him onto someone with a higher chance of being scum
probably more?
Don't think my role would be taken out of the rand pool. I think it's a lot more powerful on scum, cuz they would actually know good targets amd have a better idea what they need.
I definitely think I've used it in a townie way (assuming I'm right on shadow) but post restriction and zion dying definitely undercuts that.
But the role itself I don't think is town only. Don't even think I should be a protection target over dv really unless nacho is town and we definitely have either scum DV or ninja (or something even weirder) lowering his value either way. Which I guess is what nacho believes right now so meh
... yo... what's the liklyhood toms ability, as op as it is... is multishot...
Yeah... can we lynch him now?
Imagine if you were town and silver was scum (both telling truth about roles). Next, if you were scum and silver was town. These are completely different games.
Next, imagine silver is scum and I am town compared to I am scum and silver is town (still telling truth about roles) - nothing significant changes.
I understand scum can make use of the role, I just sincerely doubt iso would let it go to Rand since that role + double kills basically makes it a scum win regardless of what roles he stacks against it.
Does that make sense?
Do you agree that if the power exists it is probably coming from town?