Really weird question. After using the shot, would Grapefruit have defaulted to a VT? Because if he did, then it could explain why scum risked killing him.
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Oh BS. Ready to vote RE whenever. What about your last "insider knowledge" misrep that backfired so spectacularly when you thought you could jump on Proph? I also love the "quite frankly" qualifier.
What do you mean about RE possibly jumping on me? She stated that she was scumreading me around Day 4 when I was busy taking my finals but then she re-evaluated her read on me. For the past Day or so I've been her strongest townread?
I would like shadow to talk to us about who he neighborized.
Also I'm working on looking at QH's posts but because of studying and stuff I might have to post it fully later. Working on it in little bursts here and there.
I'm still on shadow/LnG as of right now, though. QH votes shadow in this post then he posts this:
Quote from QH »
Ok, this post makes me feel very good about shadow. If Shin is scum, then I'm not sure why shadow would discuss him being scum with Grape during N1. If Shin is town, then in this post above shadow is pushing for his lynch all the while being convinced that a scum!shin flip would townlock him. This looks like a very non-instinctive post to make if shadow is a mafia who knows that Shinichi is town. Like, he would know Shinichi would flip town, but still post something as blunt as this?
It feels to me like he was trying to get some early distancing going but then decided to chuck shadow into his townreads and not waver from that for the rest of the game. In addition, he never really goes after LnG - even after it was shown that his claimed role overlaps with QH's.
The only thing that makes me pause about the shadow/Lng/QH scum team is that there would be no vanillas on the scum team, which seems really weird to me, but I'd be very surprised if RE or JT would be scum. Still, rereading will continue.
From my perspective either RE or Proph have to be scum. I'll also be surprised if lng and RE are scum together.
I'd like to know if this is based on the unlikelihood/rarity of all three (presumably...) scum being PRs. If so, it wouldn't be first time I lost a game because mechanics made it seem as if someone had to be scum.
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Oh BS. Ready to vote RE whenever. What about your last "insider knowledge" misrep that backfired so spectacularly when you thought you could jump on Proph? I also love the "quite frankly" qualifier.
What do you mean about RE possibly jumping on me? She stated that she was scumreading me around Day 4 when I was busy taking my finals but then she re-evaluated her read on me. For the past Day or so I've been her strongest townread?
I would like shadow to talk to us about who he neighborized.
Her "this is not a townie statement" when you thanked... GF?... for your critique on your playstyle. And that was after she was townreading you IIRC.
Ok, I'm not going to post a response to 24 pages worth of ISO, but here's reasons why I feel RE is scum.
1) First of all, the GF flip didn't affect her reads in the slightest. For someone who was calling him scum and wondering why he was so widely town read, you think she would reevaluate. As RE herself said in post 496, "You have to work with flips AND new information/posts that follow." She doesn't seem to have done that here.
Hey, what do you know? The same two people are on Shinichi. This wagon, of course, isn't as clean because a full four of the 6 people on it are still unknown.
It's a bit WIFOMy for yesterday's QH lynch since everyone was on him, but I'm guessing 1 scum stayed off. Just gut instinct.
3) RE's tendency to get worried/defensive when people see her as scummy. Early in the game, Terry says she's 8 of 12 on his list, and she gets indignant. She keeps being weirdly hung up on the fact that I called her scummy for two or three posts when I first replaced in, as if that's my entire case NOW. Not sure if you noticed, but I did the same with Terry, and changed my mind because, hey, he acted towny.
4) Her pushes. Her D1 attacks are on Terry and WG. She says she doesn't trust kpaca, but she interacts more with the other two. Then she expresses concern in post 468 towards GF.
5) Her weird "if we're gonna have a mislynch today" comments about Kpaca day 1. "That all being said, if we're going to have a mislynch today, kpaca is the best option. There's no point in announcing your presence if you're not going to be responsive to everything that's happened so far." The phrasing feels off to me. If you think kpaca is a mislynch, then why not go after who you think is scummy, rather than be "ok" with a mislynch? Maybe it's playstyle but that's just weird to me.
Here's her next post showing her thinking GF is scummy:
Am I correct in taking this to mean you don't think I am a mislynch then?
Yes. But I don't think you are going to be lynched today. People want kpaca dead too much for that.
I have a gut feeling that there won't be a majority lynch of Kpaaca toDay.
Outside of myself do you have any other scum reads?
Do you think Kpaca is a mislynch?
What about AG?
And why for both?
And is your read still based upon my "squeaky cleaness"? Just because I want it to be clear for the record that you are voting for me not because I've been scummy, or anti-town, or dead weight, but because I've been too townie. And if not I'd like to hear the case.
kpaca, yes, I'm leaning towards mislynch. AG I believe is just turning into an inactive, and from my experience, inactives tend to be town. I don't like that I don't have any strong feelings about AG, but I'm going to pretend he's getting replaced. If I had to choose, I'd go with AG is mislynch. My read on you is based on the squeaky cleaness, because that indicates to me you are not taking any real stabs. Yes, I know, we've been through this. But just skimming through page 10, you are bouncing reads like crazy. You have a rather large pool of people you are "fine" lynching, which indicates to me your strongest read is on the person you are currently voting for, and given the lack of posts and reactions from kpaca, that is not a good sign. You are not taking any strong stance on anyone in particular, except kpaca, and even then, I feel any argument against kpaca just sounds the same nowadays, and nobody is actively engaging convos with him. You are against lynching Vaimes but shortly later say you're reconsidering it, as well as the reads on me. I can't remember my exact words from what I said about you earlier, but if I said you were "too townie," that was a mistake. Squeaky clean doesn't mean towniness, it just means you haven't taken many risks.
Basically, you are far too willing to compromise, which shouldn't be the case because the person you're voting for is leading the lynch by a long shot.
So here she says I'm likely a mislynch, even though further upthread she says she hasn't seen anything townie from my slot. And the convo with GF just feels all sorts of wishy-washy back and forth, especially considering a post before she said that GF wouldn't be a mislynch.
She then continues to fight with Grapefruit for quite a while. She also highlights QH's "towniness"
Because in essence, I've never actually seen scum who do that... The only reason Shinichi is contradicting himself is because he's responding to everything. He's just challenging reasoning that doesn't cut it (to him, anyway). If it were anybody else, I'd find it weird. The reads on him are basically "contradicting = scum." It just feels extremely shallow.
What do you make of Vaimes's read on him, then:
Quote from Vaimes »
And yeah, my major issues with Shinichi right now are 1) complete lack of scumhunting (you could argue that his questions to people are him figuring out the game, but I have seen 0 signs of him using that information to do anything), 2) complete lack of voting and having a voting record, 3) giving wishy-washy reads on people and situations, and 4) saying he randomly claimed at some point on D1 but didn't explain why when I asked him.
The four points of Vaimes's case are not accusing Shinichi of contradicting at all.
After reading a bit through the scum!Shinichi game you posted, I will have to reconsider my read on him. Because yeouch there is a lot of similarity. But the second, third, and fourth points Vaimes pointed out are invalid to me because 2 & 3 I have seen from Shinichi as town (although 3 to a much lesser extent), and 4 I am still waiting for someone to inform me where Shinichi actually claimed. The first is debatable... But honestly it is applicable to AG, and even WG.
Quote from RE »
I'm sad he didn't get lynched yesterday. Also Grapefruit's summary is bias af. Rhand got killed most likely because he soft claimed. I don't think there's much other to it than that. I'm focusing on AG and WG, and then a slightly lesser extent, Grapefruit and Terry.
What do you think of my catch-up post? What was your read on kpaca?
It's fine. I disagree about Quickhoodies, because I agree with Mindreaver's assessment that his reaction to the kpaca train was pretty townie, but everything else seems okay. Initially, I thought kpaca was scummy, but his wagon was very strange + he was acting anti-town, and I normally don't see that coming from scum (although that's purely based on experience).
Ok, so Terry checked the votes on RE, and put up a case. Here's the back and forth.
Your third vote (#152) is where I started noticing something. Kpaca was early LHF (Low hanging Fruit), I voted him prior (#134) to push him to improve his posting, but that put him at 3 votes and the leading wagon at the time. It seemed like you were just jumping aboard the most popular wagon at the time (Flavor of the Day).
I accept, I hadn't been paying attention to votes, and it suddenly struck me that kpaca's townread of Shinichi was weird, so voted for him.
Your forth vote was on me (#311), which didn't really fall in the Flavor of the Day category, but that was because it was an OMGUS vote, which is a different scum tell.
It wasn't OMGUS. It was you giving shoddy reasoning for me possibly being scum, which you continue to do so with these "slip" posts.
Your sixth vote was on Rhand-Town (#456), who was getting heat from Grapefruit (#451), Mindreaver (#447), Me (#443), QH (#441), etc. This is an example of a FOD (Flavor of the Day) vote and it was on now confirmed town.
Except my reasoning had nothing to do with their's. It was lazy reasoning, sure, relying on flavor and all, but I repealed my vote as I decided to townread Rhand, which wasn't the case at all for Grapefruit and Mindreaver. In fact, if you bothered considering what led me to vote for him, I was one of the first people to call out Roger's "flavor slip," and I had been suspecting him for a while.
Your 7th vote was on Grapefruit (#497), who was actually getting pressured by Rhand, Shadow and Shin. I noticed this and voted you for it. I n post #528, you clearly know what I meant by FOD, why have you been pushing this so much? I have a separate post for #511 after I finish this all up.
Unbelievable. Shadow and Grape have been patting each other on the back for the longest time. Grape wasn't getting pressured by Shadow, it was the smallest misunderstanding. Rhand was being scumread by plenty. I wouldn't call anything he said as pressure. I know what flavor of the day means, I just don't see how it's applicable to most of my votes.
Your 10th vote was on AG (#672), when Proph just voted him on #661. I voted you again today for this. Proph keeps at AG, but you just kind of vote him and move on. It seems very insincere, but over the course of this post, I'm seeing that a lot of your votes aren't sincere. It seems like you use them as a tool to get people to talk to you or take you seriously. I can't decide if that's town or scum though. I'm leaving my vote on you for now, but I need to think on some other things in the meantime.
Except my vote was on AG the day before, and the only reason I switched was because we needed a lynch. My vote on AG is a continuation of the reasons from yesterday, because his inactivity (or rather, lurking) calls for a lynch. I don't see why you're blaming me for voting for FOD when others have done so plenty of times. Grapefruit with Rhand, kpaca, and Shinichi for instance. Shadow with kpaca and Shinichi. It's extremely convenient for you to call it voting for FOD when you're completely ignoring my reasoning as well everybody else's votes.
The only "flavor of day" votes I will accept are kpaca and Rhand, one whom I ended up treating as town and the other as expendable town. And considering I've voted for plenty of other people and left my votes on non-FOD targets, I think 2 out of 10 is reasonable. When you boil it down, all that's left is you think (or are pretending to think) that my votes aren't genuine. Which is a feeling. Which I get, since that's why I targeted Grapefruit day 1 for a little while, but it's also why I decided to leave him alone. Feel free to keep your vote on me, but your reasoning alone is enough to make you scum and your lack of focus on other players isn't helping.
Again, you can see where she gets indignant and OMGUS's him a bit. Why is his reasoning and trying to figure out RE's alignment enough to make him scum? Why is his lack of focus not helping?
God you're being ridiculous. I meant mislynch as in a town loss, if we're going to lose town, it best be the person who's contributing the least and being anti-town. If he's scum, even better. Really, are you intentionally ignoring my posts asking you to clarify about me voting for the "flavor of the day"? Because any way I look at it, that's a blatant lie, and I'm sure you've come to realize this yourself and are choosing to ignore it rather than squirm to back it up.
You realize hes stating this, because only scum could know it would be a mislynch. Everyone else would see two outcomes either a mislynch or scum dieing.
He's calling it a slip. Except it's not a slip. Not even remotely. I was saying if town was going to be lynched, I'd rather have it be kpaca than anybody else. I'm trying to make the best of a worst case scenario - which is if kpaca is not scum. Hence me using "mislynch." If kpaca didn't get lynched, his behavior would come and bite us in the back later on in the game (or he'd swap out, which I didn't know at the time). Terry completely ignored my point and twisted my words. I have to wonder if he's just pulling out random posts to annoy me (as I'm pretty sure I've referenced people being mislynched multiple times outside of that post), because otherwise, who actually catches scum like that. I mean literally he made the same "slip" in the beginning of the game (#204).
It could be a playstyle thing, maybe. *shrug* A bit neutral on this. Weird to me, but maybe overthinking.
Another interesting choice of wording is in this post.
I gave Vaimes the Vanilla Cop shot last night. Felt like he'd enjoy a night action.
ok, not what I thought it was.
Also
Unvote
Vaimes plus AG is making me really uncomfortable. When I googled psycho consultant roles I saw psychiatrist pop up, who basically makes SK VT, which would have all kinds of implications. Now my paranoia about Vaimes "targeting" rhand last night really slapped me in the face. AG has been suspect, hence being at L2, and he now has tied himself with vaimes. I need to process this.
AG what's vanilla cop do?
Tells the player using it whether their target is vanilla or not-vanilla.
I don't know this for certain, but I've heard that PR checkers are usually scum aligned, because they'll have a better chance of taking down strong town.
I'm sorry but this sounds increasingly as you are scum. Especially when I consider that in the cult game I linked, the cult leader had one shot abilities to give to their cult members, ranging from flipping town to checking if another player is scum or not. So I at least know that this ability is NAI and alone cannot clear you.
"I'm sorry but this sounds increasingly as you are scum". Again, weird phrasing. Why would town!RE be sorry? It's not like she is a player who is passive, or apologetic. The tone here stands out to me.
*Quick aside I love that RE and Terry put aside their differences to jump at Vaimes there. After each other all game but putting it aside like that gives me a fresh t/t vibe.
You're totally going to jinx it.
...
I'm really torn on the whole AG thing, which is why I want to hear from other people.
Ok, why is she "torn" again? She admitted yesterDay that she hadn't seen a SINGLE townie post from my slot. Also, she said earlier in Day 2 that she was looking at my slot. What's there to be "torn" about?
Just seems like a weird way to put that. Why is your intent to get claims and not Lynch scum?
VOTE: RE
Because I'm torn between WG and AG, as I'm pretty sure they're unaligned. Also seriously? If what you (and AG) said earlier was true, then that meant Vaimes lied about receiving information on Rhand. I don't see another way of looking at it, it's not like behavior where there's gray area.
And where do you stand on AG? I don't know which parts of what you said were part of your "trap," but I feel like your only scum read right now is me, which is super unhelpful.
Again, RE doesn't like being questioned.
Quick aside: if RE is scum, I don't see how Terry can be. They've been battling back in a pretty honest-sounding way. If they are scum together, kudos.
@RE: What posts make you believe WG and Shadow are unaligned?
Not necessarily posts - it's mostly because I think WG is unaligned with everyone. He's also leaning towards town now. What made me think he was scum in the first place was the lack of evidence behind thinking Vaimes was scum, but given that he's refocused his attention on you, that's no longer the case. Honestly, if it were not for the small player base, I would have suspected you to be cult leader and Vaimes converted cult. I believe Vaimes was town day 1, but the way he defended you as if to keep you alive at least one more night is what I would expect from a cult member saving their leader to convert another member.
To be completely honest, I'm actually more confident in a Shinichi lynch than a WG lynch. Proph's defense of WG is really suspicious, but I don't think this is his scum game. He's also one to buss, and I have never seen scum (from what I remember) defend a lynch of a partner so surely. On the other hand, now that I've moved past reading Shinichi based off of meta, his reads are not solid at all. Yes, he has memory issues, but the only reason they're so prevalent now is because he's not reading anybody strongly, which at this point, is really unlikely for town.
Or... I guess Shinichi? This pretty much comes from nowhere. She has had a few interactions, but considering she was just arguing a scum team of me/Terry/Shadow... *shrug*
Dying over here but...
I don't understand what's going on. Shinichi's vote not being counted. Sounds like an ability. Sounds like an ability AG would have to give someone during the day, like the PR checker 1-shot. I think he's scum.
I don't even know... what... huh? How does this make any sense? Why would Vaimes share publicly that he had the ability if that was the case? I don't know if this makes RE more scummy for fearmongering or more towny for paranoia. *shrug* I just thought it was pretty funny upon review.
This is her first direct quotation of QuickHoodies... Day 3. (There's a chance they responded to each other without saying the other's name in a post or something, which I would've missed reading this iso.)
Ok. So like.
You think Shinichi is more likely scum than Wheat. Then you townread Proph under the basis that he wouldn't defend a teammate (in this case, Wheat) so hard. It's weird how you didn't consider the possibility of Proph being mafia defending Wheat being townie. Especially since you put Shinich above Wheat on your scumlist and Proph (who you agree is one to buss) is pushing a lynch on Shinichi.
Actually, I have, but I just didn't say anything about it... I was also wary that if both Shinichi and WG were scum, then Proph had nothing to lose by bussing Shinichi (but that's no longer a possibility).
And to be completely honest, had WG flipped scum, Proph probably would have jumped a lot higher on my town reads list because of that defense. Only under very few circumstances do I see scum defending a buddy like that.
Not much to it, pretty pedestrian. Just noting it since QH is the only scumflip.
Cutting the main part of this next post because the part that set off flags came at the end.
Things to discuss today:
>Any more ideas on the no night kill? (QH is probably right - no roleblocker, to be honest.)
>Scum on WG's train? (someone else take care of that)
>Is Shinichi's "after 5 posts, no crier message" claim believable? (Nope. So why make it?)
Why would you not believe Shin's claim here? I mean, no one else claimed the ability to do so, and it was obviously demonstrated.
If you really think I am the only lynch option after an entire month of game play your most def scum. Also I even stated that no one can ever be 100% confirmed unless there role can somehow confirm their own alignment, so unless a flip happens everyone should be guilty lol.
For today, yes I do. I don't think we can move on until you are lynched. In fact, your list post (#1752) is almost confirmation to me that you are scum.
Our ONLY weapon this game is the Lynch. Us missing a Lynch is just as bad or worse then scum missing a nightfall like they did last night.
Just to be clear here, because I see a lot of assumptions going around, what kind of game are we playing? Why are you assuming there's no vig?
For someone who has been wrong, time and time again, so many times this game. (WG is definitely scum! Shin is definitely scum!) It amazes me how you still have such confidence in your reads.
For someone who has been wrong, time and time again, so many times this game. (WG is definitely scum! Shin is definitely scum!) It amazes me how you still have such confidence in your reads.
And I can safely say you are wrong about me? Your point?
Do you think I singlehandedly lynched WG and Shinichi?
Basically all the posts you quoted are old quotes. Why didn't you push me the previous days? I ask because you criticized me for not doing the same for you...
Honestly, literally every single thing you've accused me of everyone else is guilty of as well. I only hope the other two town can recognize it.
Just please, give another name. Tell me who else you think is scum. A bit because it's what you should be doing anyway, mainly so you can stop avoiding someone else being on your case.
And oh my god... You are making me crack up. #2966 is enough proof you aren't reading the game properly. That was by far not my most recent lynch list. I'll vote you tomorrow. A bit because I'm pretty sure you're scum, mainly because it's going to be a pain to respond to every bit of your nonexistent, fluff case on me.
No matter what happens, I'm going to make a mental note to keep my claws in slots like you and AG from here on out. I'm kicking myself for setting myself up in this situation.
Also, seriously? You forgot? Oh, the horrible things I want to say now, but I can't exactly say they're necessary to move the game forward.
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Re, not done reading you over. It should be pretty obvious, since I haven't even gotten to where I replaced in yet. I will answer your questions after.
Also, what previous Days should I have been pushing you again? You realize I replaced in D4, and toDay is D5, right? I can't really argue on behalf of AG.
As should be obvious by now (and because I basically claimed it yesterday) I chatted with Grape last night, and I'm really irked that he died. Most of our discussion boiled down to figuring out the game based on the kill, so for him to be dead is rather irritating.
Lingerer not using his ability is also infuriating, because if our RE and Terry are both telling the truth (I know Proph is because I personally checked him), that means that either Lingerer is scum, or the team has 2 goons.
I have some more thoughts, but it's late o'clock and I'm already up past I should be.
I strongly believe that no one should vote until we as a town are prepared for it; regardless of the strength of your reads, we don't need a hero, we need a collective.
In case you misunderstood, my lynch list still goes
1. Proph
2. Terry
It's just the third option is where I'm having the most difficulty. And I don't like that I'm stuck between QH and AG.
Did you forget about #2772, which was where I gave my latest read list? Whereas this post you quoted came from a couple more weeks ago? Were you not playing in real time? Or did you forget?
Also, now that you know this, or at least you should know, why do you think my reads would have changed with Grapefruit's death? He wasn't the top 3 scumreads with my latest reads. Grapefruit dying is surprising, is all, because BP with no hint of being one-shot really seems like a kill to avoid.
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Shadow, I think it's time to share your super top secret town tell on Grape.
Yeah, it probably is.
Grapefruit found out about Shinichi's alignment due to OoG circumstances, and his emotion and response to Shinichi's lynch as well as revealing it to me lead me to believe he was town because I did not believe he would use that info to leverage against me, because that is what I would consider against the spirit and rules of the game as scum.
Shadow, I think it's time to share your super top secret town tell on Grape.
Yeah, it probably is.
Grapefruit found out about Shinichi's alignment due to OoG circumstances, and his emotion and response to Shinichi's lynch as well as revealing it to me lead me to believe he was town because I did not believe he would use that info to leverage against me, because that is what I would consider against the spirit and rules of the game as scum.
I don't feel good asking you this but was there a reason you couldn't say this earlier?
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In case you misunderstood, my lynch list still goes
1. Proph
2. Terry
It's just the third option is where I'm having the most difficulty. And I don't like that I'm stuck between QH and AG.
Did you forget about #2772, which was where I gave my latest read list? Whereas this post you quoted came from a couple more weeks ago? Were you not playing in real time? Or did you forget?
Also, now that you know this, or at least you should know, why do you think my reads would have changed with Grapefruit's death? He wasn't the top 3 scumreads with my latest reads. Grapefruit dying is surprising, is all, because BP with no hint of being one-shot really seems like a kill to avoid.
Not sure if you noticed, but I was going over your posts chronologically. I hadn't gotten to that post yet. Just because you change your T/S list means it wipes from history your thoughts from the rest of the game.
In case you misunderstood, my lynch list still goes
1. Proph
2. Terry
It's just the third option is where I'm having the most difficulty. And I don't like that I'm stuck between QH and AG.
Did you forget about #2772, which was where I gave my latest read list? Whereas this post you quoted came from a couple more weeks ago? Were you not playing in real time? Or did you forget?
Also, now that you know this, or at least you should know, why do you think my reads would have changed with Grapefruit's death? He wasn't the top 3 scumreads with my latest reads. Grapefruit dying is surprising, is all, because BP with no hint of being one-shot really seems like a kill to avoid.
Not sure if you noticed, but I was going over your posts chronologically. I hadn't gotten to that post yet. Just because you change your T/S list means it wipes from history your thoughts from the rest of the game.
Can you answer my question?
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Post 2404, RE says Proph is scummy for meta, then adds the "this is a scum confession".
One thing I noticed in this reread: while she calls Proph scum, there isn't a lot of interaction with him. Certainly not as much as there is Terry or Grapefruit. I think she interacted more with Shadow as well.
As of Post 2444, she starts interacting more. She responds to a few posts, then walks back the "scum confession" line, calling it "interesting choice of phrasing".
In a post against Terry, RE says that she views a hammer as different from other votes on the wagon. Never really heard that before, just mentioning it.
Ok, so Proph asks why she's scumreading him, and she responds:
RE I'd still like to see reasoning on why you think I'm scum that isn't you taking a "Gonna post tomorrow after finals" post and saying that it makes me confirmed scum.
I quoted several posts already where you are defending Terry for little to no reason. And you've admitted to disagreeing with him on pretty much everything, so why exactly are you defending him? A faulty train of logic on his part should definitely affect whatever read you have on him.
I could potentially go for QH, I think we agree there.
*internal screaming*
(I'll be back)
If that's the best case/reasoning RE has against Proph, why is Proph #1 on her lynch list, instead of Terry? Wouldn't Terry's flip help define this read?
This is interesting. Shadow's ability has been confirmed - he's used it on Terry, Grape, and Proph, making it a pool of 4 people. There are 7 players currently alive - 4 town and 3 scum (presumably). I know I am town (you don't so you can treat this as me thinking out loud). That means among that pool, there is scum. Which by itself really isn't that helpful at all, but when you consider that shadow has had long talks with these three people and yet nothing strongly informative has come out of it... Either shadow is being pocketed or he is doing the pocketing.
I agree that the neighbor chat hasn't "nailed" scum yet, but the whole town was kinda sucking so that's a shared failure. Also, the "Shadow is being pocketed or he is doing the pocketing"... not sure I get that logic, considering he spread the ability around.
Put it this way. I know at least one person who has done outside of thread conversing is scum. Personally, I see chats as a way to determine the other person's alignment. Otherwise, there is so much room for pocketing and manipulation. Whatever reads you are discussing should not be exclusive to the chat - unless they are new and you can't post them in the main thread at night. In other words, the fact that no one among the people who've done chatting have picked up on another person's scumminess is worrying and for the love of god I expect more.
RE can you walk me through how your read on me has progressed this game?
You say stuff like "this post confirms Proph as scum" and then you say that you love that post of mine? It's just really confusing me atm and I'd love to hear your thought process regarding your read on my slot.
I'm really confused. I like the post, because it pointed out something I had forgotten, but I'm not really sure how I feel about your slot. I was really convinced you were scum several days ago. Now I'm not as sure.
Ok, I'm not seeing the "come to Jesus" moment here on why Proph suddenly started becoming more townie.
Here's a defense from Shadow on his chats, and RE's response.
RE: regarding my conversations with people, I think you're not correctly remembering (or you are attempting to sew distrust among us) if you think nothing has come from my chats alignment wise. I am heavily town reading grape, and what was said during chats is strengthening that to a point where I will basically never win if he's scum (and would actually be reasonably upset if he was). Proph I'm lukewarm about. Whatever I do, I keep coming back to kpaca's play, as well as some of the stuff grapefruit and I talked about. His saving grace right now is that he and QH are reasonably strongly unaligned (though I am at a point where I wouldn't bet the game on this) and QH doesn't look like a townie that's about to be mislynched. Terry, I've had as varying degrees of townie to briefly scummy to back to townie. The last few posts of our chat together actually has me feeling like I did near the end of Mistborn, which he was town and showed it through passion and just couldn't push past the opposition. So aside from being "interesting", what is your takeaway from this? You say I'm either pocketed or pocketing, but you kind of let that drop without going further into it, what's your point?
It's interesting and that's it. I don't know how the chats went first hand, my point is exactly that: "pocketed or pocketing." It comes down to how much you believe I (or the other two who haven't been chatted with) am town. From my point of view, someone in that group of 4 is scum. I guess this is aimed more at you than anyone, but if you are town, then you have chatted with scum for certain. As someone who has had the neighborizer ability used on them and gotten pocketed by scum, I know there are telltale signs for it. Namely asking tons of questions with a certain answer in mind. I know, it's something I can't prove and requires blind trust which I won't encourage either. So I'm just leaving it as "interesting" for now.
@Proph
I am good with you voting QH.
Pointing out that he has definitely chatted with scum (or is scum) is notable, and this post comes across pretty towny. At the least, it feels genuine.
Proph also was trying to figure out why RE changed her stance on him, and she posted:
Day 1: I think kpaca is town based on pretty weak reasoning (anti-town players tend to be more often town than scum), and I actually agreed with QH's post that he's not so good with a kpaca lynch.
Day 2: Your posts seem alright, not scummy, though I didn't understand the QH read.
Day 3: I don't remember...
Day 4: I was reading you off of tone. Hard to explain, but there was some things present here not present in your scum games. Like the memes for starters.
Later day 4 (I think?): I stopped reading you off of tone.
Day 5: You actually defend yourself (and strongly), which surprised me and went against what I expected you to do as scum.
Can you explain Day 5? Why would defending myself cause you to change your read on me? What would you expect me to do if I was scum?
I really don't understand why you don't remember me on Day 3/4? I dunno, I posted a fair number of times and it's kind of strange that your read on me is mostly based on tone instead of "I read a Proph post, this is what I think about it and why" which is what I was kiiind of hoping for here.
I remember now. Day 3 was when we lynched Shinichi. I don't remember which day it happened (perhaps over the course of two days), but your argument (and possibly shadow's as well?) convinced me that Shinichi was scum. I was less focused on you and more on the EL/Terry argument, and then Shinichi.
As for today, I expected less of an offense and more of defense, shortly put.
Maybe I'm misreading this, but if you were convinced by Proph of Shinichi's scumminess, and Shin was town, then surely that would make Proph read more scummy, yes?
And the tone argument doesn't make sense at all. First off, you said earlier that people can fake tones, and thereby you didn't put much stock in it. But here it seems to have been a big factor. Second, if his tone was different from his scum games, why did you scumread him during that time? Need clarification on this one.
Ok, then we get to where RE and I start interacting.
I don't think RE "derped" on the group of 4 thing, because I did the same thing. I understood what RE was getting at, and I don't think it's alignment-indicative.
RE, can you tell me the towniest thing you've done this game? The last few Days? And yes, it is vague... that's kinda my point. Besides your fight with Proph, I haven't really seen any analysis or cases or... well you get my point.
Yes, obviously one of those 4 must be scum. But overall, I tend to side with the people producing substance. Scum can do it, but it's harder because they have to make fake cases. This is why I don't trust lurkers.
I also note that your reaction to being called scummy is similar to the reaction you had earlier against Terry, where you were mad/peeved that he had you at 9 out of 12 on his POE list.
I was mad because his reasoning against me was if kpaca wasn't scum, I was, based on my vote on kpaca, while he was also suspicious of kpaca. I could care less where on the list I ended up on, if the reasoning is something distasteful, that will be my reaction.
Right now, I'd lynch QH over anyone today (I'm just a chicken). I dislike his reasoning for selecting Terry (side note: although he claimed his role was a motion detector of sorts, I believe it, if legit, to be more of a voyeur as apparently he receives information on what actions were performed on someone and not just if actions were performed) - it sounds faked as targeting someone based on whether they would claim to be targeted by whoever was granted the vanilla shot makes no sense, as people who are targeted shouldn't be alerted to being targeted (as I've stated like twice already...)
I have a scumread on Terry. Like I've stated before (as did EL), his attempt to clear me (and EL) based on using "Town Vanilla" instead of "Vanilla Town" really, really suggests that he isn't a Town Vanilla. Including the fact he seemed so unsure of it too (I'll quote the posts if you beg). Also, there's this one post (oh god i'm so lazy i don't want to bring it up) where he immediately jumps in after EL dies and says that the mafia team loves Cantrip or something... That is one really, really strange conclusion to come to.
But for this read to be accurate, I would automatically have to question Proph's defense of Terry. Because I hate it With this scenario, I either see both Proph and Terry being scum, or only Proph, or both town. Never Terry scum, Proph town.
I will reread shadow one day... But I kind of have the feeling a lot of his reactions are faked. And I don't mean this as I see a reaction, I conclude it as fake. I mean he's purposely reacting to people in such a way to gain town points. Starting with his reaction day 1 (or 2?) towards Grapefruit asking to be sold on his lynch. There are just some things that are NAI but feel town, and I believe shadow to be aware of it and is mimicking it.
Grape I'm willing to conclude as town. Town seriously needs a role like that for this game to be balanced. Plus, behavior-wise, one of the less scummy people. There's a part of me that's screaming that Grape's (and Proph's too, I guess) case on QH is just a huge final push for scum's victory before everyone can go back to relax-mode, but I'd have to overlook QH's scumminess for this to be the case.
You are strange. Part of me wants to conclude you as town based on the timing of Terry's claim. But you are kind of neutral otherwise.
And yes, I've been lazy for a while, but I'm not lacking in cases. Half of what I said here is just a repeat of what I've already stated. Like @Grape you never came back to what I suggested that Proph kept narrowing his suspects down to x, y, and Terry, yet concluded that he was being pocketed.
This is the sort of post I was looking for, thanks RE.
As for the last question to me I get why you flagged it, but I don't know what to make of it. Yes he's leaving himself escape hatches. Yes that is a large part of my QH scum read. But I don't see it as particularly scummy in this case because his behavior following that worry about being pocketed was to still focus on his main scum read. He isn't stating a main scum read and then spending more time pushing other things. The escape hatch of the pocketed comments worries me, but just about everyone is making them right now.
Real quick though run me through your scum POV. You're okay with a QH lynch, but are more sold that Terry is sucm. And you think if Terry is scum Proph makes perfect sense as a partner. And you're also seriously worried about Shadow. And don't have a strong read on LnGrrrR. So your only real town read is me. Correct?
In that case why are you okay lynching QH? It feels like you would rather lynch Proph today.
I'm okay lynching QH because I think he's scum too. For all the reasons I've already stated.
Proph, I'm not sure. His tone is really, really throwing me off. He's no longer someone I want to lynch first. Terry's just visibly scummy and my read on Proph is badly reliant on that.
I think GF made a good point that RE doesn't have a lot of town reads right now, but that could just be her overall paranoia playing Mafia. She brings up that her case on Proph was mostly based off Terry, which is good that she admitted it herself.
Someone mentioned something really sexy. Every other flipped role has had an unconventional name, yapper, death guard, heck even motion detector fits, so does AG's Psycho Consultant. You know what doesn't? Bullet Proof. Like wtf? I almost want a CFD on this
100% honest thoughts, no filter:
I could actually buy this. Like taking a look at QH's claim too, "Town FBI Director" - that doesn't fit either.
This is going to sound bad coming from someone who just put Grape in their townreads, but I don't like #2698 at all. It's a scum method. Asking questions with a certain answer in mind. Plus, it kind of sounds like he wanted me to shift my attention towards you and Proph instead of QH.
Okay, I'm off. I need less discourse more sleep.
Go read your post again I was reacting to the fact that you were listing a whole scum team you were suspicious of that didn't include QH. While saying you were okay with lynching QH, that needed further questioning. And it was in a patronizing tone because you were talking about how you were in a bad mood and I wanted to keep you from getting angry.
You didn't ask for me to clarify, or to list my top scum team. You were somehow led to the conclusion that I wanted to lynch Proph/Terry over QH, and questioned that, almost as if you were coercing me into voting for either one of them, or planting that idea into my head.
Also, shadow's #2715 can make him scum. And it doesn't even require you to be scum. You don't townlock someone and then refuse to explain it. Plus, I'm not liking how he decided to vote QH first. Only QH will get this reference (if he even remembers), but it reminds me of how he started the train on Claire, because "everyone was onto her."
Ok, this post is what I'm getting at. RE keeps claiming that people are "putting words into her mouth", but we're not. We assume that you want to lynch Terry over QH because... you've literally been calling him scum all game. Why wouldn't you want to lynch him over someone you weren't sure about?
RE says she didn't like how Shadow voted QH first. But she did think QH was scum... so... not sure why she cares that he was first? Wonder what RE thinks of that vote now.
I would like reasons, personally. Also, the reason I said to stop fishing is that Shadow is either scum, and you can't trust what he says, or he is town, and he's telling the truth. If he's alive toMorrow, we can ask him about it then. If he's dead toMorrow and town, then we can trust him. If somehow he is town, and wrong, then we can blame him after the game lol.
Unless you want to lynch Shadow toDay, then I don't see the point.
I'm asking because I think he's scum. If I trusted him, I wouldn't question it as much.
When I say I'm a chicken, what I really mean is I don't want to take the blame should QH flip town... Plus, I'm really not confident in any of these, it's a relative scale, and I know I'm flip flopping a lot. I'm tired now, I'll try to explain this order hopefully tomorrow.
When did Terry become your 2nd town read? Because he questioned the role name/ability? How does that wipe out an entire game of calling him scum? And now that QH is confscum and GF is conftown, how does this reflect your reads?
To elaborate slightly (please ask questions if you are curious):
1. QH - Like Proph said, he is focused on survival. I don't buy his role, which pretty much makes him scum.
shadow - His defense of Grapefruit is not one that comes from town. If anything, it kinda makes me town lean Grapefruit more. Also, in every game, people always, always bring up that scum would most likely not kill their scumread. Seeing as I've already accused shadow of being aware of certain tells that make people read them as town, I would not put this tactic past him. And the fact his scumread of Vaimes didn't actually pop up in the thread where it'd be useful and instead with the person who was bound to stay alive till the end of the game.
2. LnG - Kind of the filler spot. I'm going to bring up one very old post from AG (#384). AG currently had a strong townread on Vaimes. What a weird thing to say. Anyway, I can't recall anything from this slot that made me think they were town, so here they are.
3. Grapefruit - idk. May have been too quick to jump the gun on "bulletproof" because bulletproof is actually a thing with "bulletproof vests" and all that. Has been reasonably townie all game, if QH is scum and Grape is a buddy, don't think he makes up a giant case against him. Will most likely just go and vote him. And at this point, I have to treat QH as scum otherwise the game is lost.
4. Terry - Kinda has to do with I don't see town!Proph defending scum!Terry the way he has. Also, I kind of like his CFD post on Grape. Even if Grape is town, I don't think scum suggests that when it's something so against the current mindset of the game.
5. Proph - Tone (to give small examples: the pre-apology if QH is scum, the annoyance/frustration coming from people scumreading him with like no reasoning). It's a gut read. It's so bad. I will dig up more if people want me too, but the laziness is taking over...
So before, Proph was scum because he was defending Terry. But now... Terry is town because... Proph was defending him. What? I don't get that logic at all. Why couldn't/wouldn't town!Proph defend scum!Terry? I mean, Proph has been wrong before.
She then brings up the CFD post Terry made as a reason for townreading him. (Fun fact... I believe I was the one who brought up the weird role/names in the first place, which Terry took to. But whatever.) At least there's a slight progression there, if a bit sudden.
Proph again points out something I was thinking of:
5. Proph - Tone (to give small examples: the pre-apology if QH is scum, the annoyance/frustration coming from people scumreading him with like no reasoning). It's a gut read. It's so bad. I will dig up more if people want me too, but the laziness is taking over...
So this is something I'm not really understanding. After going from "Proph is so scum" Yesterday, I'm your top town read Today?
Also how does you reading me off of tone make any sense when you said before:
Quote from RE1031 »
Like I said, tone is super easy to fake.
How does this jive? You're reading me based on tone, but you admit that tone is easily fakeable?
I don't like reading by tone (I might have it secretly influence my reads, but I don't like it). But at this point, I don't think I have a choice. Because for my scum team to work, you and Terry have to be town. And like I said, I see only these possibilities: scum!Proph/town!Terry, scum!Proph/scum!Terry, or town!Proph/town!Terry.
@LnG
I perfectly understand what you are trying explain. Except it's not coming from a townie mindset. That is the kind of logic scum use, and think that it makes sense, and stand by it, without realizing that townies cannot afford to think that way.
A vote count would be so nice right now. Because if QH is town, then I feel like he should have been hammered by now...
If Proph is scum, he is doing a great job of faking it, as he is coming up with a lot of the same questions I came up with during this ISO.
@RE, if you're so sure of my scumminess, why not push my slot?
If you think someone else is scummier, why haven't you been voting them?
Idk, maybe because I can already imagine 3 instant follow up votes from scum, since I'm factoring in the likely possibility I'm wrong? lol.
But you're right, I should push you. I did push your slot day 1. Then day 2. Then got distracted because your replacee disappeared.
Like, if it were not for the fact that scum (most likely) has the ability to hammer town if there's 1 town vote on a townie, I'd be voting you. I'd be voting someone.
Eh, no one really pushed AG's slot much. There was this general air of scumminess by D2/3, but I don't think there was a concerted effort to push him mainly because no one lynches lurkers here.
Re: my 2414 post, I didn't have any concrete reasons for anything. I didn't like Terry's back and forth with confirmed town Lurker, Proph seemed to be asking busy questions, and I probably keyed in on your jump from scum!Proph and scum!Terry to town!Proph and town!Terry with what I feel is weak reasoning.
I would like reasons, personally. Also, the reason I said to stop fishing is that Shadow is either scum, and you can't trust what he says, or he is town, and he's telling the truth. If he's alive toMorrow, we can ask him about it then. If he's dead toMorrow and town, then we can trust him. If somehow he is town, and wrong, then we can blame him after the game lol.
Unless you want to lynch Shadow toDay, then I don't see the point.
I'm asking because I think he's scum. If I trusted him, I wouldn't question it as much.
When I say I'm a chicken, what I really mean is I don't want to take the blame should QH flip town... Plus, I'm really not confident in any of these, it's a relative scale, and I know I'm flip flopping a lot. I'm tired now, I'll try to explain this order hopefully tomorrow.
And I was referring to why you think it's scummy of me to not have changed my reads based on Grapefruit's flip. Like, what reads did you think I had?
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Regarding Grape's flip... here's my point. Your last list was
QH/Shadow
Me
Grape
Terry
Proph
Given that GF flipped town, does that change your opinion of Terry at all? You liked his CFD post at the time, do you still like it?
I understand that you can put out a case on AG's actions, but realize I'm disadvantaged as I won't be able to speak to his thoughts. I don't think it's unfair, just know I can't really defend against them.
Ok, let's get to the meat of this:
Now you:
>>?>Your case on me. You start off by picking out certain posts and then painting them in the worst light possible, aka, by ignoring context. I mean, you picked 2 of my posts out of the 300+? GG?
I had just replaced in right before the Night, and I wasn't going to read the whole game because there was a chance I could be NK'd. That's why I stated in my opening post that I had only read the last ten pages or so. Are you saying I shouldn't get involved in the game until fully caught up? That's not how I play.
>>>Throwing shade on me for not voting yet not voting yourself (day 5). Like, were you not aware that scum could have hammered and won the game had there been a town vote on a townie? Cause you really sounded that way.
You can either admit you could be wrong and be humble when you play, or you can act brash and confident. Either way works... both doesn't. There's been many times you acted like you had scum in the bag, and yet other times where you have noted you could have made a mistake. Don't blame me for not knowing how to read your tone when you are all over the place. If you think that my slot hasn't done ONE townie thing, at all, not even a smidgen of a post, then you should have no reservations voting me. (which is bull, because up above you have stated you thought my slot was town at least once, but whatever).
>>>Blind faith in shadow. Seriously. Now that you've said it yourself - you don't know who the "last" scum is (I should put "know" in quotation marks too...), I hope this blind faith doesn't stick. (Unless somehow shadow is townlock for you, which will send red flags in itself.) As I've said, town cannot afford to think that way. Or at least afford to encourage others to do the same.
See, look at the "quotations" mark snipe there. And you wonder why I give you a hard time? Anyways, it's not blind faith in Shadow. It's based on my belief that it wouldn't make sense for scum!Shadow to target town!GF, convince him Vaimes is scum, then NK Vaimes. Is it possible? Sure, but I think unlikely.
>>>The "stop fishing" posts. Okay. Either this is pure miscommunication (which I doubt) or you are scum throwing shade. Seriously. What is so bad about me asking people to reveal their night actions when every PR's been outed? I'll ask again - what does town have to lose from it? You know, and maybe keep in mind that the thread is my only source of gaining this information?
Because if he doesn't want to say it, there's probably a good reason. If Shadow is town, then we can trust what he says, and he doesn't want to share it. If Shadow is scum, then we can't trust his words either way. I trust Shadow as a PLAYER (not town/scum) to think that he isn't going to be stupid and clear GF without a decent reason. Regarding what town has to lose from it, I was pretty sure Shadow had a good reason. Lo and behold, I was right.
>>>Your accusations have been failed to be backed up with actual posts. Busy accusing Grapefruit of scum? Like, in what, two posts? How does that make you feel about Terry, who suggested a CFD on Grape, who flipped town, while QH flipped scum? (Still not wholeheartedly thinking Terry is scum, just want to make this comparison because for you to call me out on it and not Terry is -bleurgh-.) Not pursuing QH? QH's claim had a hole in it (checking on Terry with the guise of seeing if he'd claim he'd been visited, but visited people aren't notified of such), which I called him out for. In addition, I called him out for the nonsensical theories he was making, which as I said, was a guise to make it seem like he was thinking about the game but still not actually contributing to it. Prior to QH's claim, I pointed out that there was no reason for him to be holding out on his claim, except if he was a PR with a sketchy role that couldn't be backed up since there were like 4 nights of actions to be accounted for. So while I didn't do massive rereads, I definitely was paying attention to him.
Is that enough posts for you? Funny, here you make the same CFD distinction that I do. And yes, in the "Town/Scum" scale of justice, Terry did lose points for that. It doesn't make him immediately scum though, because I don't usually change my reads at the drop of a hat. You are right that you did call out QH for a hole in his claim. I'll give you that.
Re, I will respond later. But most of the questions you have asked I have provided answers for. For instance, I already said Shqdow convincing (now proven town)GF and letting him come away with the idea that Vaimes was scum would be pretty dumb considering Vaimes was the NK. The easiest path would be to let widely read town GF push a Vaimes mislynch.
Is it not a trend for scum to avoid killing their scumreads so that they can continue pushing them? Is it not brought up in nearly every game that this is the case? If you can acknowledge that shadow might have been faking that post after Shinichi's hammer in order to gain townie points, is it so unlikely for him to have shaded Vaimes then killed him in order to make it seem he wouldn't have done this as scum?
Also, I disagree that it would have been the easiest path. I would have never voted Vaimes. In addition, as it turns out, Grapefruit was more skeptical of shadow than he was letting on.
It's not so much about NK'ing Vaimes. It's that if scum!Shadow was trying to pocket GF, why would he go to the trouble to convince him Vaimes was scum if they were going to NK him? YOU might not have voted for Vaimes, but GF was widely town-read, and if he got behind a push on Vaimes it might have taken off.
Yes, it is a possibility that Shadow could be using WIFOM, but I think it's more unlikely than not.
For someone who has been wrong, time and time again, so many times this game. (WG is definitely scum! Shin is definitely scum!) It amazes me how you still have such confidence in your reads.
And I can safely say you are wrong about me? Your point?
Do you think I singlehandedly lynched WG and Shinichi?
Basically all the posts you quoted are old quotes. Why didn't you push me the previous days? I ask because you criticized me for not doing the same for you...
Honestly, literally every single thing you've accused me of everyone else is guilty of as well. I only hope the other two town can recognize it.
Just please, give another name. Tell me who else you think is scum. A bit because it's what you should be doing anyway, mainly so you can stop avoiding someone else being on your case.
And oh my god... You are making me crack up. #2966 is enough proof you aren't reading the game properly. That was by far not my most recent lynch list. I'll vote you tomorrow. A bit because I'm pretty sure you're scum, mainly because it's going to be a pain to respond to every bit of your nonexistent, fluff case on me.
No matter what happens, I'm going to make a mental note to keep my claws in slots like you and AG from here on out. I'm kicking myself for setting myself up in this situation.
Also, seriously? You forgot? Oh, the horrible things I want to say now, but I can't exactly say they're necessary to move the game forward.
I don't see why you care who I think the 2nd scum is. Does that matter? We all need to focus on the scummiest person toDay, whoever we think that is. Besides, you could probably guess who I think is 2nd scummiest if you're reading the game. (That said, if you are scum and are the lynch toDay, that will inform my views toMorrow assuming I'm not the NK. Yes I know, a lot of assumptions.)
I try to be optimistic, so regarding my shot, maybe it's for the best I didn't hand it out. If I chose my target wrong, it would be make it easier for scum to say they targeted one of the people with unproven abilities and say they're lying for a mislynch.
Regarding this question:
Also, now that you know this, or at least you should know, why do you think my reads would have changed with Grapefruit's death? He wasn't the top 3 scumreads with my latest reads. Grapefruit dying is surprising, is all, because BP with no hint of being one-shot really seems like a kill to avoid.
My point isn't so much that you were pushing GF. It's that you put Terry as 2nd towniest read, because 1) you don't know why town!Proph would defend scum!Terry and 2) Terry's paranoia about GF's claim.
@LnG
Read into this however you want, but I don't want to respond to every single comment you've made on my posts. Some of stuff you're quoting are months old and that's asking me to redefend myself against stuff I probably don't remember what was going through my mind at the time as well as playing through the game a second time. Not to mention I've already responded to the kinds of comments you've made, like how many times do you want me to explain how I went from thinking Proph/Terry is scum to them being town? Plus I'm in no mood to be breaking down quote walls and hoping I get the brackets right.
If there are any questions/accusations in particular you want me to respond to, name them.
Just this: I've noticed a lot of the things you've accused me of have to do with my change of reads. Is it impossible for you to believe that town does this? Or do you find the progression unnatural?
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
My point isn't so much that you were pushing GF. It's that you put Terry as 2nd towniest read, because 1) you don't know why town!Proph would defend scum!Terry and 2) Terry's paranoia about GF's claim.
Do those still hold true?
Yep. Although not exactly Terry's paranoia, more of his suggestion to do a CFD on Grape. As I stated in the post (you find it), I didn't agree. But I didn't think scum would suggest something so against the current mindset of the game.
And no, not enough. More posts please. Keep quoting until you convince me I am scum myself.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Because if he doesn't want to say it, there's probably a good reason. If Shadow is town, then we can trust what he says, and he doesn't want to share it. If Shadow is scum, then we can't trust his words either way. I trust Shadow as a PLAYER (not town/scum) to think that he isn't going to be stupid and clear GF without a decent reason. Regarding what town has to lose from it, I was pretty sure Shadow had a good reason. Lo and behold, I was right.
You thought that was a good reason? I find it rather hard to believe that shadow found out that Grape found out Shinichi's alignment for OoG reasons. I mean, I find it hard to believe that incident even happened knowing Shinichi. How does that even happen? Does Grape confess in the chat? Who does that?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@LnG
Read into this however you want, but I don't want to respond to every single comment you've made on my posts. Some of stuff you're quoting are months old and that's asking me to redefend myself against stuff I probably don't remember what was going through my mind at the time as well as playing through the game a second time. Not to mention I've already responded to the kinds of comments you've made, like how many times do you want me to explain how I went from thinking Proph/Terry is scum to them being town? Plus I'm in no mood to be breaking down quote walls and hoping I get the brackets right.
If there are any questions/accusations in particular you want me to respond to, name them.
Just this: I've noticed a lot of the things you've accused me of have to do with my change of reads. Is it impossible for you to believe that town does this? Or do you find the progression unnatural?
That doesn't seem quite fair. First, you defend yourself by saying I hadn't read all your posts, and I was calling you scum for only your most recent posts. Now I go through your ISO, and you say your old posts don't matter?
You don't have to respond with quotes. That's just my method, commenting as I go and do the reread. I mainly did it because I didn't play the majority of the Days so I'm trying to get the feel of the game.
And yes, my biggest problem is your progression of reads. You call Proph scum a ton, but there aren't that many interactions. Then shortly after there are a lot of interactions, you start townreading him. You call Terry scum all game long, and then it turns to town... and half the reason is because Proph defended him. Which you used as a reason to see him as scum earlier for!
Re: shadow, I'm willing to believe him. People make mistakes all the time.
I'll try to summarize shortly, but I think at the least you should READ the posts.
If you expect me to be nicer, saying stuff like "Keep quoting until you convince me I am scum myself" is not the way to do it.
And if you want to put your money where your mouth is, vote me. I'll vote you. And we'll see which one of us loses the game. Heck, maybe it's Shadow and Terry left and we'll both have a good laugh after this!
You thought that was a good reason? I find it rather hard to believe that shadow found out that Grape found out Shinichi's alignment for OoG reasons. I mean, I find it hard to believe that incident even happened knowing Shinichi. How does that even happen? Does Grape confess in the chat? Who does that?
So...you decided to throw shade at me instead of engaging me on this? This is the kind of post that makes we think you don't actually care to figure out my alignment.
You thought that was a good reason? I find it rather hard to believe that shadow found out that Grape found out Shinichi's alignment for OoG reasons. I mean, I find it hard to believe that incident even happened knowing Shinichi. How does that even happen? Does Grape confess in the chat? Who does that?
So...you decided to throw shade at me instead of engaging me on this? This is the kind of post that makes we think you don't actually care to figure out my alignment.
Coming from someone who doesn't have a single read post this phase.
And do you recall my posts from last phase? You were my next target after QH (actually kind of tied with him). The only difference from today is you and LnG have swapped places due. This isn't shade, this me reinforcing that read from yesterday.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
And if you want to put your money where your mouth is, vote me. I'll vote you. And we'll see which one of us loses the game. Heck, maybe it's Shadow and Terry left and we'll both have a good laugh after this!
I will cry if that is the case. But not as much if it's Proph and Terry.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Coming from someone who doesn't have a single read post this phase.
And do you recall my posts from last phase? You were my next target after QH (actually kind of tied with him). The only difference from today is you and LnG have swapped places due. This isn't shade, this me reinforcing that read from yesterday.
This has nothing to do with how you're reading me. You actively think I'm lying, but you decided not to engage me about it, and only said it in passing to someone else. That's shade.
As for reads, I'm reading today with as few preconceptions as I can, and trying to look and see who's looking to just lynch someone, and who cares about alignments.
You thought that was a good reason? I find it rather hard to believe that shadow found out that Grape found out Shinichi's alignment for OoG reasons. I mean, I find it hard to believe that incident even happened knowing Shinichi. How does that even happen? Does Grape confess in the chat? Who does that?
So...you decided to throw shade at me instead of engaging me on this? This is the kind of post that makes we think you don't actually care to figure out my alignment.
Coming from someone who doesn't have a single read post this phase.
And do you recall my posts from last phase? You were my next target after QH (actually kind of tied with him). The only difference from today is you and LnG have swapped places due. This isn't shade, this me reinforcing that read from yesterday.
Damn, I forgot to finish my sentence. I don't really know why you and LnG swapped. You are kind of lurking in the shadows right now, which is something I'd expect more from scum as opposed to LnG posting like crazy.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Coming from someone who doesn't have a single read post this phase.
And do you recall my posts from last phase? You were my next target after QH (actually kind of tied with him). The only difference from today is you and LnG have swapped places due. This isn't shade, this me reinforcing that read from yesterday.
This has nothing to do with how you're reading me. You actively think I'm lying, but you decided not to engage me about it, and only said it in passing to someone else. That's shade.
As for reads, I'm reading today with as few preconceptions as I can, and trying to look and see who's looking to just lynch someone, and who cares about alignments.
It didn't occur to me to do so until LnG actually stated he found your reason valid. And considering it's an OoG reason still, I don't even know if I want to be asking you to expand upon it. It's just really disbelieving.
I guess I'll wait.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Coming from someone who doesn't have a single read post this phase.
And do you recall my posts from last phase? You were my next target after QH (actually kind of tied with him). The only difference from today is you and LnG have swapped places due. This isn't shade, this me reinforcing that read from yesterday.
This has nothing to do with how you're reading me. You actively think I'm lying, but you decided not to engage me about it, and only said it in passing to someone else. That's shade.
As for reads, I'm reading today with as few preconceptions as I can, and trying to look and see who's looking to just lynch someone, and who cares about alignments.
It didn't occur to me to do so until LnG actually stated he found your reason valid. And considering it's an OoG reason still, I don't even know if I want to be asking you to expand upon it. It's just really disbelieving.
I guess I'll wait.
For the record, if this is actually true and could be proven, then I would reconsider my read on you. Because I don't think it's in the spirit of the game to use this kind of reasoning as scum to defend/whiteknight town. The more I think about it, the more I don't understand how it could happen. Like it's unbelievable, but I don't see why you'd lie about it at the same time. It's an unfair situation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
It didn't occur to me to do so until LnG actually stated he found your reason valid. And considering it's an OoG reason still, I don't even know if I want to be asking you to expand upon it. It's just really disbelieving.
I guess I'll wait.
Wait for what? And I probably ought not go into much more detail because of the nature of it, but I'm just kind of baffled that you would just assume something like this is made up. Like, GF is flipped town, so very clearly I had a good a reason otherwise yesterday he would have called me out. So you think I'm just lying for...what?
As far as activity, it's a weekend, I've had multiple things going on, and destiny 2 came out, so I've been back burnering Mafia.
For the record, if this is actually true and could be proven, then I would reconsider my read on you. Because I don't think it's in the spirit of the game to use this kind of reasoning as scum to defend/whiteknight town. The more I think about it, the more I don't understand how it could happen. Like it's unbelievable, but I don't see why you'd lie about it at the same time. It's an unfair situation.
Agreed, it is a sucky situation, and I don't think it is fair for me to use it as either alignment, which is why I wouldn't talk about it until today, and asked that we pretend I didn't say anything in the first place.
I would like shadow to talk to us about who he neighborized.
I'm still on shadow/LnG as of right now, though. QH votes shadow in this post then he posts this:
It feels to me like he was trying to get some early distancing going but then decided to chuck shadow into his townreads and not waver from that for the rest of the game. In addition, he never really goes after LnG - even after it was shown that his claimed role overlaps with QH's.
The only thing that makes me pause about the shadow/Lng/QH scum team is that there would be no vanillas on the scum team, which seems really weird to me, but I'd be very surprised if RE or JT would be scum. Still, rereading will continue.
I'm not scum.
I don't think RE is scum at the moment.
Why do you think shadow and LnG are town?
I'd like to know if this is based on the unlikelihood/rarity of all three (presumably...) scum being PRs. If so, it wouldn't be first time I lost a game because mechanics made it seem as if someone had to be scum.
Her "this is not a townie statement" when you thanked... GF?... for your critique on your playstyle. And that was after she was townreading you IIRC.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
1) First of all, the GF flip didn't affect her reads in the slightest. For someone who was calling him scum and wondering why he was so widely town read, you think she would reevaluate. As RE herself said in post 496, "You have to work with flips AND new information/posts that follow." She doesn't seem to have done that here.
2) Let's look at the lynch of WG
Votecount 2.6 - With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.
Shinichi (2): shadowlancerx, Wheat_Grinder
Wheat_Grinder (6): Quickhoodies, AtheistGod, Vaimes, RE1031, EternalLurker, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
Prophylaxis (1): Shinichi
AtheistGod (1): Grapefruit21
Not Voting: Prophylaxis
As of post #1503, that's a lynch.
Of those, we know QH is scum. AG/me is town, Vaimes was town, Lurker was town. Only RE and Terry are the unknowns. One of those two is likely scum.
Now let's look at Shin's lynch.
Votecount 3.4 - Final
Shinichi (6): shadowlancerx, RE1031, Vaimes, Grapefruit21, Prophylaxis, TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (2): EternalLurker, Shinichi
Not Voting: AtheistGod, Quickhoodies
Hey, what do you know? The same two people are on Shinichi. This wagon, of course, isn't as clean because a full four of the 6 people on it are still unknown.
It's a bit WIFOMy for yesterday's QH lynch since everyone was on him, but I'm guessing 1 scum stayed off. Just gut instinct.
3) RE's tendency to get worried/defensive when people see her as scummy. Early in the game, Terry says she's 8 of 12 on his list, and she gets indignant. She keeps being weirdly hung up on the fact that I called her scummy for two or three posts when I first replaced in, as if that's my entire case NOW. Not sure if you noticed, but I did the same with Terry, and changed my mind because, hey, he acted towny.
4) Her pushes. Her D1 attacks are on Terry and WG. She says she doesn't trust kpaca, but she interacts more with the other two. Then she expresses concern in post 468 towards GF.
5) Her weird "if we're gonna have a mislynch today" comments about Kpaca day 1. "That all being said, if we're going to have a mislynch today, kpaca is the best option. There's no point in announcing your presence if you're not going to be responsive to everything that's happened so far." The phrasing feels off to me. If you think kpaca is a mislynch, then why not go after who you think is scummy, rather than be "ok" with a mislynch? Maybe it's playstyle but that's just weird to me.
Here's her next post showing her thinking GF is scummy:
More next post.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
So here she says I'm likely a mislynch, even though further upthread she says she hasn't seen anything townie from my slot. And the convo with GF just feels all sorts of wishy-washy back and forth, especially considering a post before she said that GF wouldn't be a mislynch.
She then continues to fight with Grapefruit for quite a while. She also highlights QH's "towniness"
Ok, so Terry checked the votes on RE, and put up a case. Here's the back and forth.
Again, you can see where she gets indignant and OMGUS's him a bit. Why is his reasoning and trying to figure out RE's alignment enough to make him scum? Why is his lack of focus not helping?
Here's RE's defense of the "mislynch" comment.
It could be a playstyle thing, maybe. *shrug* A bit neutral on this. Weird to me, but maybe overthinking.
Another interesting choice of wording is in this post.
"I'm sorry but this sounds increasingly as you are scum". Again, weird phrasing. Why would town!RE be sorry? It's not like she is a player who is passive, or apologetic. The tone here stands out to me.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Ok, why is she "torn" again? She admitted yesterDay that she hadn't seen a SINGLE townie post from my slot. Also, she said earlier in Day 2 that she was looking at my slot. What's there to be "torn" about?
When Terry calls her out on it, she replies with:
Again, RE doesn't like being questioned.
Quick aside: if RE is scum, I don't see how Terry can be. They've been battling back in a pretty honest-sounding way. If they are scum together, kudos.
Hey, here's where she decided WG is town!
Ok, so now it's me and Shadow. Got it.
Or... I guess Shinichi? This pretty much comes from nowhere. She has had a few interactions, but considering she was just arguing a scum team of me/Terry/Shadow... *shrug*
When Shin calls her out, this is her defense.
... underwhelming, to say the least.
This post here... this one is a gem.
I don't even know... what... huh? How does this make any sense? Why would Vaimes share publicly that he had the ability if that was the case? I don't know if this makes RE more scummy for fearmongering or more towny for paranoia. *shrug* I just thought it was pretty funny upon review.
This is her first direct quotation of QuickHoodies... Day 3. (There's a chance they responded to each other without saying the other's name in a post or something, which I would've missed reading this iso.)
Not much to it, pretty pedestrian. Just noting it since QH is the only scumflip.
Cutting the main part of this next post because the part that set off flags came at the end.
Why would you not believe Shin's claim here? I mean, no one else claimed the ability to do so, and it was obviously demonstrated.
For someone who has been wrong, time and time again, so many times this game. (WG is definitely scum! Shin is definitely scum!) It amazes me how you still have such confidence in your reads.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
And I can safely say you are wrong about me? Your point?
Do you think I singlehandedly lynched WG and Shinichi?
Basically all the posts you quoted are old quotes. Why didn't you push me the previous days? I ask because you criticized me for not doing the same for you...
Honestly, literally every single thing you've accused me of everyone else is guilty of as well. I only hope the other two town can recognize it.
Just please, give another name. Tell me who else you think is scum. A bit because it's what you should be doing anyway, mainly so you can stop avoiding someone else being on your case.
And oh my god... You are making me crack up. #2966 is enough proof you aren't reading the game properly. That was by far not my most recent lynch list. I'll vote you tomorrow. A bit because I'm pretty sure you're scum, mainly because it's going to be a pain to respond to every bit of your nonexistent, fluff case on me.
No matter what happens, I'm going to make a mental note to keep my claws in slots like you and AG from here on out. I'm kicking myself for setting myself up in this situation.
Also, seriously? You forgot? Oh, the horrible things I want to say now, but I can't exactly say they're necessary to move the game forward.
Terry, was going to gove the shot to you.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Lingerer not using his ability is also infuriating, because if our RE and Terry are both telling the truth (I know Proph is because I personally checked him), that means that either Lingerer is scum, or the team has 2 goons.
I have some more thoughts, but it's late o'clock and I'm already up past I should be.
I strongly believe that no one should vote until we as a town are prepared for it; regardless of the strength of your reads, we don't need a hero, we need a collective.
Did you forget about #2772, which was where I gave my latest read list? Whereas this post you quoted came from a couple more weeks ago? Were you not playing in real time? Or did you forget?
Also, now that you know this, or at least you should know, why do you think my reads would have changed with Grapefruit's death? He wasn't the top 3 scumreads with my latest reads. Grapefruit dying is surprising, is all, because BP with no hint of being one-shot really seems like a kill to avoid.
Grapefruit found out about Shinichi's alignment due to OoG circumstances, and his emotion and response to Shinichi's lynch as well as revealing it to me lead me to believe he was town because I did not believe he would use that info to leverage against me, because that is what I would consider against the spirit and rules of the game as scum.
I don't feel good asking you this but was there a reason you couldn't say this earlier?
Not sure if you noticed, but I was going over your posts chronologically. I hadn't gotten to that post yet. Just because you change your T/S list means it wipes from history your thoughts from the rest of the game.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Can you answer my question?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Post 2404, RE says Proph is scummy for meta, then adds the "this is a scum confession".
One thing I noticed in this reread: while she calls Proph scum, there isn't a lot of interaction with him. Certainly not as much as there is Terry or Grapefruit. I think she interacted more with Shadow as well.
As of Post 2444, she starts interacting more. She responds to a few posts, then walks back the "scum confession" line, calling it "interesting choice of phrasing".
In a post against Terry, RE says that she views a hammer as different from other votes on the wagon. Never really heard that before, just mentioning it.
Ok, so Proph asks why she's scumreading him, and she responds:
If that's the best case/reasoning RE has against Proph, why is Proph #1 on her lynch list, instead of Terry? Wouldn't Terry's flip help define this read?
I don't like the following post:
I agree that the neighbor chat hasn't "nailed" scum yet, but the whole town was kinda sucking so that's a shared failure. Also, the "Shadow is being pocketed or he is doing the pocketing"... not sure I get that logic, considering he spread the ability around.
RE explains a little more here:
That's... reasonable I guess.
Ok, I'm not seeing the "come to Jesus" moment here on why Proph suddenly started becoming more townie.
Here's a defense from Shadow on his chats, and RE's response.
Pointing out that he has definitely chatted with scum (or is scum) is notable, and this post comes across pretty towny. At the least, it feels genuine.
Proph also was trying to figure out why RE changed her stance on him, and she posted:
Maybe I'm misreading this, but if you were convinced by Proph of Shinichi's scumminess, and Shin was town, then surely that would make Proph read more scummy, yes?
And the tone argument doesn't make sense at all. First off, you said earlier that people can fake tones, and thereby you didn't put much stock in it. But here it seems to have been a big factor. Second, if his tone was different from his scum games, why did you scumread him during that time? Need clarification on this one.
Ok, then we get to where RE and I start interacting.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I think GF made a good point that RE doesn't have a lot of town reads right now, but that could just be her overall paranoia playing Mafia. She brings up that her case on Proph was mostly based off Terry, which is good that she admitted it herself.
Ok, this post is what I'm getting at. RE keeps claiming that people are "putting words into her mouth", but we're not. We assume that you want to lynch Terry over QH because... you've literally been calling him scum all game. Why wouldn't you want to lynch him over someone you weren't sure about?
RE says she didn't like how Shadow voted QH first. But she did think QH was scum... so... not sure why she cares that he was first? Wonder what RE thinks of that vote now.
When did Terry become your 2nd town read? Because he questioned the role name/ability? How does that wipe out an entire game of calling him scum? And now that QH is confscum and GF is conftown, how does this reflect your reads?
This next post is kinda hilarious.
So before, Proph was scum because he was defending Terry. But now... Terry is town because... Proph was defending him. What? I don't get that logic at all. Why couldn't/wouldn't town!Proph defend scum!Terry? I mean, Proph has been wrong before.
She then brings up the CFD post Terry made as a reason for townreading him. (Fun fact... I believe I was the one who brought up the weird role/names in the first place, which Terry took to. But whatever.) At least there's a slight progression there, if a bit sudden.
Proph again points out something I was thinking of:
If Proph is scum, he is doing a great job of faking it, as he is coming up with a lot of the same questions I came up with during this ISO.
Eh, no one really pushed AG's slot much. There was this general air of scumminess by D2/3, but I don't think there was a concerted effort to push him mainly because no one lynches lurkers here.
Re: my 2414 post, I didn't have any concrete reasons for anything. I didn't like Terry's back and forth with confirmed town Lurker, Proph seemed to be asking busy questions, and I probably keyed in on your jump from scum!Proph and scum!Terry to town!Proph and town!Terry with what I feel is weak reasoning.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Um, the post I linked actually quoted a post you made? So yes, you were already playing?
And I was referring to why you think it's scummy of me to not have changed my reads based on Grapefruit's flip. Like, what reads did you think I had?
Regarding Grape's flip... here's my point. Your last list was
QH/Shadow
Me
Grape
Terry
Proph
Given that GF flipped town, does that change your opinion of Terry at all? You liked his CFD post at the time, do you still like it?
I understand that you can put out a case on AG's actions, but realize I'm disadvantaged as I won't be able to speak to his thoughts. I don't think it's unfair, just know I can't really defend against them.
Ok, let's get to the meat of this:
Now you:
>>?>Your case on me. You start off by picking out certain posts and then painting them in the worst light possible, aka, by ignoring context. I mean, you picked 2 of my posts out of the 300+? GG?
I had just replaced in right before the Night, and I wasn't going to read the whole game because there was a chance I could be NK'd. That's why I stated in my opening post that I had only read the last ten pages or so. Are you saying I shouldn't get involved in the game until fully caught up? That's not how I play.
>>>Throwing shade on me for not voting yet not voting yourself (day 5). Like, were you not aware that scum could have hammered and won the game had there been a town vote on a townie? Cause you really sounded that way.
You can either admit you could be wrong and be humble when you play, or you can act brash and confident. Either way works... both doesn't. There's been many times you acted like you had scum in the bag, and yet other times where you have noted you could have made a mistake. Don't blame me for not knowing how to read your tone when you are all over the place. If you think that my slot hasn't done ONE townie thing, at all, not even a smidgen of a post, then you should have no reservations voting me. (which is bull, because up above you have stated you thought my slot was town at least once, but whatever).
>>>Blind faith in shadow. Seriously. Now that you've said it yourself - you don't know who the "last" scum is (I should put "know" in quotation marks too...), I hope this blind faith doesn't stick. (Unless somehow shadow is townlock for you, which will send red flags in itself.) As I've said, town cannot afford to think that way. Or at least afford to encourage others to do the same.
See, look at the "quotations" mark snipe there. And you wonder why I give you a hard time? Anyways, it's not blind faith in Shadow. It's based on my belief that it wouldn't make sense for scum!Shadow to target town!GF, convince him Vaimes is scum, then NK Vaimes. Is it possible? Sure, but I think unlikely.
>>>The "stop fishing" posts. Okay. Either this is pure miscommunication (which I doubt) or you are scum throwing shade. Seriously. What is so bad about me asking people to reveal their night actions when every PR's been outed? I'll ask again - what does town have to lose from it? You know, and maybe keep in mind that the thread is my only source of gaining this information?
Because if he doesn't want to say it, there's probably a good reason. If Shadow is town, then we can trust what he says, and he doesn't want to share it. If Shadow is scum, then we can't trust his words either way. I trust Shadow as a PLAYER (not town/scum) to think that he isn't going to be stupid and clear GF without a decent reason. Regarding what town has to lose from it, I was pretty sure Shadow had a good reason. Lo and behold, I was right.
>>>Your accusations have been failed to be backed up with actual posts. Busy accusing Grapefruit of scum? Like, in what, two posts? How does that make you feel about Terry, who suggested a CFD on Grape, who flipped town, while QH flipped scum? (Still not wholeheartedly thinking Terry is scum, just want to make this comparison because for you to call me out on it and not Terry is -bleurgh-.) Not pursuing QH? QH's claim had a hole in it (checking on Terry with the guise of seeing if he'd claim he'd been visited, but visited people aren't notified of such), which I called him out for. In addition, I called him out for the nonsensical theories he was making, which as I said, was a guise to make it seem like he was thinking about the game but still not actually contributing to it. Prior to QH's claim, I pointed out that there was no reason for him to be holding out on his claim, except if he was a PR with a sketchy role that couldn't be backed up since there were like 4 nights of actions to be accounted for. So while I didn't do massive rereads, I definitely was paying attention to him.
Is that enough posts for you? Funny, here you make the same CFD distinction that I do. And yes, in the "Town/Scum" scale of justice, Terry did lose points for that. It doesn't make him immediately scum though, because I don't usually change my reads at the drop of a hat. You are right that you did call out QH for a hole in his claim. I'll give you that.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
It's not so much about NK'ing Vaimes. It's that if scum!Shadow was trying to pocket GF, why would he go to the trouble to convince him Vaimes was scum if they were going to NK him? YOU might not have voted for Vaimes, but GF was widely town-read, and if he got behind a push on Vaimes it might have taken off.
Yes, it is a possibility that Shadow could be using WIFOM, but I think it's more unlikely than not.
I don't see why you care who I think the 2nd scum is. Does that matter? We all need to focus on the scummiest person toDay, whoever we think that is. Besides, you could probably guess who I think is 2nd scummiest if you're reading the game. (That said, if you are scum and are the lynch toDay, that will inform my views toMorrow assuming I'm not the NK. Yes I know, a lot of assumptions.)
I try to be optimistic, so regarding my shot, maybe it's for the best I didn't hand it out. If I chose my target wrong, it would be make it easier for scum to say they targeted one of the people with unproven abilities and say they're lying for a mislynch.
Regarding this question:
Also, now that you know this, or at least you should know, why do you think my reads would have changed with Grapefruit's death? He wasn't the top 3 scumreads with my latest reads. Grapefruit dying is surprising, is all, because BP with no hint of being one-shot really seems like a kill to avoid.
My point isn't so much that you were pushing GF. It's that you put Terry as 2nd towniest read, because 1) you don't know why town!Proph would defend scum!Terry and 2) Terry's paranoia about GF's claim.
Do those still hold true?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I'll finally finish up the QH interaction analysis and post it tomorrow. Sorry guys, had a pretty busy weekend.
Read into this however you want, but I don't want to respond to every single comment you've made on my posts. Some of stuff you're quoting are months old and that's asking me to redefend myself against stuff I probably don't remember what was going through my mind at the time as well as playing through the game a second time. Not to mention I've already responded to the kinds of comments you've made, like how many times do you want me to explain how I went from thinking Proph/Terry is scum to them being town? Plus I'm in no mood to be breaking down quote walls and hoping I get the brackets right.
If there are any questions/accusations in particular you want me to respond to, name them.
Just this: I've noticed a lot of the things you've accused me of have to do with my change of reads. Is it impossible for you to believe that town does this? Or do you find the progression unnatural?
Yep. Although not exactly Terry's paranoia, more of his suggestion to do a CFD on Grape. As I stated in the post (you find it), I didn't agree. But I didn't think scum would suggest something so against the current mindset of the game.
And no, not enough. More posts please. Keep quoting until you convince me I am scum myself.
You thought that was a good reason? I find it rather hard to believe that shadow found out that Grape found out Shinichi's alignment for OoG reasons. I mean, I find it hard to believe that incident even happened knowing Shinichi. How does that even happen? Does Grape confess in the chat? Who does that?
That doesn't seem quite fair. First, you defend yourself by saying I hadn't read all your posts, and I was calling you scum for only your most recent posts. Now I go through your ISO, and you say your old posts don't matter?
You don't have to respond with quotes. That's just my method, commenting as I go and do the reread. I mainly did it because I didn't play the majority of the Days so I'm trying to get the feel of the game.
And yes, my biggest problem is your progression of reads. You call Proph scum a ton, but there aren't that many interactions. Then shortly after there are a lot of interactions, you start townreading him. You call Terry scum all game long, and then it turns to town... and half the reason is because Proph defended him. Which you used as a reason to see him as scum earlier for!
Re: shadow, I'm willing to believe him. People make mistakes all the time.
I'll try to summarize shortly, but I think at the least you should READ the posts.
If you expect me to be nicer, saying stuff like "Keep quoting until you convince me I am scum myself" is not the way to do it.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Coming from someone who doesn't have a single read post this phase.
And do you recall my posts from last phase? You were my next target after QH (actually kind of tied with him). The only difference from today is you and LnG have swapped places due. This isn't shade, this me reinforcing that read from yesterday.
I will cry if that is the case. But not as much if it's Proph and Terry.
As for reads, I'm reading today with as few preconceptions as I can, and trying to look and see who's looking to just lynch someone, and who cares about alignments.
Damn, I forgot to finish my sentence. I don't really know why you and LnG swapped. You are kind of lurking in the shadows right now, which is something I'd expect more from scum as opposed to LnG posting like crazy.
It didn't occur to me to do so until LnG actually stated he found your reason valid. And considering it's an OoG reason still, I don't even know if I want to be asking you to expand upon it. It's just really disbelieving.
I guess I'll wait.
For the record, if this is actually true and could be proven, then I would reconsider my read on you. Because I don't think it's in the spirit of the game to use this kind of reasoning as scum to defend/whiteknight town. The more I think about it, the more I don't understand how it could happen. Like it's unbelievable, but I don't see why you'd lie about it at the same time. It's an unfair situation.
As far as activity, it's a weekend, I've had multiple things going on, and destiny 2 came out, so I've been back burnering Mafia.