8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
1) So... Let me get this straight. What happened between you unvoting me and now?
2) Also explain why I would make a PR "hunting" note in the thread everybody sees?
3) You simultaneously have kpaca under "prob scum," which is a stronger scum read than me, and me as scum because of my read of kpaca, which I'll say is basically the same as yours. Yet somehow my jump on kpaca is opportunistic and your read isn't? Your own logic can be applied against you.
4) Also, how does your list work again? Your reads on WG and QH seem like they shouldn't be town reads.
Blue Numbers added for my convenience above.
1) Dude you went from the 12 spot to the 8 spot. Did you think an unvote was a town clear for you?
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
So... Let me get this straight. What happened between you unvoting me and now?
Also explain why I would make a PR "hunting" note in the thread everybody sees?
You simultaneously have kpaca under "prob scum," which is a stronger scum read than me, and me as scum because of my read of kpaca, which I'll say is basically the same as yours. Yet somehow my jump on kpaca is opportunistic and your read isn't? Your own logic can be applied against you.
Also, how does your list work again? Your reads on WG and QH seem like they shouldn't be town reads.
You went from the 12 spot to the 8 spot. An unvote does not equal town clear.
I didn't say you made a PR hunting note for everyone to see, I implied that I felt like it was you making a mental note to yourself.
At the time, I felt the vote was opportunistic. I still wouldn't rule it out as a bus vote either. It had a weak back bone. I still think Kpaca has been scummy and I've liked some of your post since. I voted Kpaca early (earlier than you) because he was needing some attention. Why are you so jumpy? I've have you in the 8 spot, it's not a big deal.
My list works like a 1 to 12 scale at that moment in time where 1 is least likely to be scum in my opinion and 12 most likely.
RE: WG: I don't see what is too confusing about this. Overall, the posting seems town, but I'm concerned a bit with the easy town red I got from him, but then again, I'm town, so it's not too hard to forgive.
RE: QH: Again I don't see what is confusing about my read on him. I liked his wall posts, but haven't heard much lately from him
1. AtheistGod (Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
2. Grapefruit21 (Town)- Just from his interactions with vaimes and me I believe he is town atleast from the first 4 pages, time may change that.
3. kpaca (Town) - Like I said in a recent post he's more neutral/town lean than anything, his town read on me doesnt feel as sloppy as others make it out to be, honestly he's prob just noticecd something that others haven't.
4. Mindreaver (Neutral)- You come off as neutral for me for the same reason as QH but i don't know you as a player I just can't get a read off of you at all.
5. Quickhoodies (Neutral)-With his big posts and knowledge of the kind of player he is I honestly can't get anything from his posts.
6. RE1031(Scum Lean)- Your leaning way to onto just for my particular liking, I feel as though scum would normally just to pocket those who they are friends with and tho we aren't voting together it seems like you really like talking about me my DC buddy.
7. Roger Sherman(Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
8. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-You seemed to be white knighting me alot which i found weird and i only noticed now after i back read, also you focused alot of your early posts on Kpaca, seem's like you were eager to jump on a person you could put alot of eyes on.
10. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- This prob very biased but his entrance alone screams town motivated and a town player
11. Vaimes (Town/Scum)- Our interaction states 1 thing either I'm scum or your scum, but I don't think either is true your reaction towards me states that your town. Only reason i put the scum part is because other feel as though that is what makes you a scumlean.
12. Wheat_Grinder (town)- I believe you are hands down town just from your interactions with the other players.
After tomorrow ill prob reread all of vaimes post so i can get a proper read on him, same goes for the others i tagged as scum or scum lean.
Let me show you how to do a list:
TOWN
1. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- DUH
2. Mindreaver (Prob Town)- Flavor claim was solid and matched with mine. Scum never claims bad guy flavor in this situation
3. Wheat_Grinder (Lean Town)- Posts seem solvey, just suspicious enough, not defensive. Not sure I love his town read on me or the fact that AG spent his last two posts proclaiming WG's towniniess. I mean, I love to be obv town, but I seem like I got some pretty easy town red for my entrance from several people, WG included.
4. Quickhoodies (Lean Town)- Has some big meaty posts, but seems a bit absent lately. I know this game is going slow, but I expect more from QH before much longer.
5. Grapefruit21 (Null/Town)- I need to read more of this guy. I get a town vibe from his posts. They seem pretty explorative, but I'm going to watch him a bit longer to get a better read.
6. Vaimes (Null)- Vaimes play has seemed decent, but for some reason I'm getting the shivers about him. Maybe I'm scared of of his scum game, hence why he takes a null slot.
7. AtheistGod (Null/Scum)- If AG doesn't step up his posting soon, he's moving down this list pretty fast. All his posts are handing out town cred
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
9. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-The quick angle shot defense of Roger seemed a bit protective of someone I think is scum. I re-read Shadow's ISO and a lot of it seems like it's just yelling from the sidelines instead of on the game field. This is a tone thing and Shadow was a bit defensive when Shinichi leaned scum on him.
10. Shinichi (Prob Scum)- This one is my lightest scum read, but the list I'm quoting seemed real fence sitty, with not a ton of meat. Something felt off with her interaction with Kpaca which seems a bit fabricated. A lot of TBF, which kind of red flags me a bit. Claims a lot of people are reading her town.
11. kpaca (Prob Scum) - RVS stuff seemed off/aggressive for RVS, no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts, defensive
12. Roger Sherman(Prob Scum)-No motivation, posts seem long but hollow. Low posting SCUM
Ok, now that's done, let's party:
VOTE: Roger
Idk if this is a challenge but either way I like this read list alot better than mine. Though not a fan that you put your own name in the list.
I guess i'll just put my 2 cents here
2.How can you be so sure of that situation tho?
4.Why is he a town lean though?
6.I feel like vaimes shouldnt be a null at all with the amount of content he has, espically with the interaction between me and him.
9.I felt like his reaction to my read on him was weird too, but feel like he just thought my reads were bad.
10. What makes u think they were fabricated?
12.I see motivation i just cant ditinguish the alignment of that motivation.
2. It's too gutsy for scum to claim it. I can't be certain, but from where I sit now, it's the most certain read i have.
4. Because I liked the amount of effort put into his wall posts
6. I feel like most of the people that are voting vaimes are being a bit paranoid of Vaimes being good scum and ignoring the possibility of him just being town. Vaimes is good scum in general, I just haven't been able to decide which one he is in this game yet, hence a null read.
10. I can't really put my finger on it, it just didn't feel sincere. I'll go back and re-read and try to give you more details.
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
1) So... Let me get this straight. What happened between you unvoting me and now?
2) Also explain why I would make a PR "hunting" note in the thread everybody sees?
3) You simultaneously have kpaca under "prob scum," which is a stronger scum read than me, and me as scum because of my read of kpaca, which I'll say is basically the same as yours. Yet somehow my jump on kpaca is opportunistic and your read isn't? Your own logic can be applied against you.
4) Also, how does your list work again? Your reads on WG and QH seem like they shouldn't be town reads.
Blue Numbers added for my convenience above.
1) Dude you went from the 12 spot to the 8 spot. Did you think an unvote was a town clear for you?
1) Dude you went from the 12 spot to the 8 spot. Did you think an unvote was a town clear for you?
I don't think it was any clear, but I don't get why you would unvote and leave it as an unvote. You didn't immediately vote for the person who took my place in the number 12 spot. If I'm still possibly scum to you, then you're not going to get anything out of leaving a vote on me for a very short period of time. Why did you unvote if you still thought I was scum?
You went from the 12 spot to the 8 spot. An unvote does not equal town clear.
I didn't say you made a PR hunting note for everyone to see, I implied that I felt like it was you making a mental note to yourself.
At the time, I felt the vote was opportunistic. I still wouldn't rule it out as a bus vote either. It had a weak back bone. I still think Kpaca has been scummy and I've liked some of your post since. I voted Kpaca early (earlier than you) because he was needing some attention. Why are you so jumpy? I've have you in the 8 spot, it's not a big deal.
Yeah... I'm a little annoyed. My written post gave you a feeling that I was making a mental note? So are you saying I slipped?
And it's a big deal to me when your reasoning is pretty hypocritical.
"so if kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE is"
I'm suspicious of kpaca, you're suspicious of kpaca. Why is it that if kpaca isn't scum, you'd bet I'm scum when you're in the same position?
I'm not too concerned with your read on QH, but I don't think WG has done anything townie. He's been tunneling on Vaimes for as long as I can remember.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Meta means nothing to me lol, ive learned from the past you can play amazingly as town and still flip scum.
Also logically in a closed setup everyones guilty till proven innocent since people can claim and still be scum.
Well then that makes things harder for the both of us. I'm not exactly well at reading people I don't know either.
While true, it's also logical that the majority is town and not mafia. Though, I suppose you meant right now instead of forever when you mentioned kpaca is guilty.
So I went through and snipped out all the quotes because I think removing the context here is important. Read all of the above responses everyone is tearing down an idea. Not a single one is offering a clear alternative or offering his own world view just attack and discredit over and over again. Doesn't even try to paint people as scum, just undermining arguments. You can go back and look at context if you need to, but there was space to provide your own opinions in the quotes rather than just painting them in a negative light. I think the final response with the 1, 2, 3 bullet points is where it's most obvious.
I don't much appreciate you removing the context of my posts in order to paint them in an unfair light. The context is important to understanding their motive and clarity. To remove it and paint it as something shows little thought on your end and is surprising. As it's a method I come to expect to be used to discredit people. If a man of the south were to praise the confederate flag, but no context given as to why. One could paint him as a racist bigot and make his motives unjust. But in actuality he could have a strong pride in his southern heritage and the men of his family who have fought and died in wars for his country inside and outside of the Civil War. And, who is tolerant of all people in his country as that's the way things are.
"I don't quite understand the context of the second sentence. If this was something you were considering beforehand why the pressure on Shin?"
"Why are you considering the flavor when it has no relevance to the game?"
"This post comes off too defensive with the snark attached at the end. It seems a little too early for that if there truly was hardly anything to have faith in reads on."
"I can see how these reasons would work for Kpaca and WG individually, but I'm not seeing how it relates to them being a team. Mafia doesn't have to be in sync with their strategies. Playing to your town meta early on in RVS is just as helpful as strong arming opinion and thought."
"Care to elaborate? Just what exactly is it about their interactions?"
Negative light or not, my opinions are clear in my posts. For the most part I am challenging what I see as weak or faulty reasoning while trying to understand the train of thought of others and how they got there. Why this is important? It's because weak and faulty reasoning are what lead to mis-lynches. If you notice I almost always include a question in my statements in order to encourage a response to help me better understand their mindset or the post itself. That or to have them rebuke me as you have done.
This raises huge red flags for me. Roger doesn't know their history to the best of my knowledge and this is the first bit of insight he offers. Feels buddyish to me.
The answer to the question was obvious from the post prior.
WG sounds pretty town. Not exactly certain what he sees as scummy from Vaimes, but his tone is townie.
AG, I know this game is off to a slow start, but how about some why's. Why is WG pretty town? Tone? You can do better. I don't want to mislynch you again, so do some splaining.
The bolded indicates it has happened before. Considering him mentioning it I drew the conclusion it has happened recently and for bad reason. I can understand how one would feel regret over a mislynch, especially if I found myself in another game with said person. This seemed obvious to me so I answered as I did to bring attention to the redundant question and show as much.
What could be gleaned from the question? You may use my response as example, but what have you solidly gleaned from that other than suspecting I'm buddying? What would be my purpose in buddying in that exact situation and time? Why Terry and no one else? I'm fine with you thinking that, but show some consideration with it.
I don't know what to make of this response to RE in general, but it gives me very strong unaligned feelings between Mind and Roger.
It along with the majority of that post was to share my thoughts on what I had read catching up. I had not formed any "world view" as of that time and still have yet to.
This last quote is super light. Point two goes out of his way to discredit Mind just a little bit and still really refuses to give his own take on the matter. In short my vote is serious.
I think you're zeroing in too much on me being mafia. I don't see how any of my second point goes to discredit Mind in any way. I was explaining how from the post I saw the second point as odd compared to the other two. It addressed two lone mafia that Mind had in considerations which contrasted the other two team scenarios. I also gave some of my conclusion from it that Mind seems to be looking for a mafia team instead of lone mafia. That's a minor detail but worth acknowledging to understand Mind's posts further on in the game as that's where his mind seems to be coming from. Also to clarify, I ask questions sometimes as I'm generally confused or curious to know more.
@Roger Hi! Can you please give me reads on any three players? Just your leaning and a small case please. Thanks
Reads and leaning are two separate things from what I've seen. A read is a definite Town or Mafia accusation where as a lean is suspicion without firm grounds with which to vote or act on. Considering I've only read the thread once and didn't think too much on it afterward I'll stick to leans. And yes, I'm being cautious and reluctant in presenting them but that's as I don't want to be misunderstood again and I'm not wholly confident in them as they hardly have anything to go by.
Leans:
1)RE1031 (Town) - I liked their observation. It shows there's interest in the game, even though that's not always telling. I liked what they did with their RVS. They retracted it upon seeing it as unproductive when they could have easily left it there and been lazy. They stuck by their opinion on Shinichi often being read scum even though they got some attention for it. In doing so they went against the vocal opinion even though it didn't serve an immediate purpose.
2)Shinichi (Town) - His posts seems like Shinichi from the last game I played with him. Often not giving much away aside from present moment gut feelings or thoughts. He's active which is a tell of interest. It's hard to discern what exactly are his mafia and town tells as I haven't seen him as mafia, but I don't see him coordinating with anyone or trying to influence thought.
3)Mindreaver (Mafia) - Most of the reasons I think this can be found in my catch-up post. #233 I didn't feel any genuine annoyance when they complained about lack of content. And while they may have contributed after the fact it wasn't directly due to a directed will, but more so interactions with others. Because of that, it appears to me more of an appeal to emotion as I believe Vaimes shared the same opinion, as did a few others. There's also the possibility of it acting as an excuse to not have an opinion at that time, but I don't remember any pressure on Mind leading up to it.
I also don't like how they brought up the SK in relevance to the flavor. That seemed like an unneeded attention shift which while forgotten still persists. Combined with their convoluted post and suspect list, it makes for an overall hollow town play to me which has me wondering if it's fake.
4)Vaimes (Mafia) - Similar reasons as Mindreaver, they appear hollow town to me. The change of mind regarding Schinichi, and weak reasons that were aroused in the beginning show lack of activity. Though, they're quite defensive about it which makes me wonder if that behavior is a part of their meta. Mind mentioned him being a robot, but I'm not getting an analytical impression from his thoughts and posts to match that bill. When it comes to my questions and quotes they don't care which to me shows lack of willing cooperation.
I don't really have any others. Mindreavers and Vaimes posts were the only ones to grab my attention. RE and Shinichi are simply the two I have the most experience with, and one is the reason I'm playing this game to begin with. Those four have been my main targets of focus as anymore and I'd have even less to give you.
@RE1031: You are in the number 8 spot. Why do you keep saying that I'm calling you scum? If I had to pick a scum team right this second, assuming there are 3 scum (or even 2 scum and 1 3P), it would be the #12, #11, and #10 spot. Obviously, I not claiming any super mafia abilities that allows me to be exactly right about everyone, so if it ends up being that #12, #11, or #10 don't end up being scum, you of course would be considered by me. You getting so hung up on this isn't helping anything.
I unvoted you with out switching to someone else because I thought your response was decent enough. I needed to read more to decide who was worth my vote after that.
Don't misquote me. I never said "so if kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE is". I said that I think there is a chance that you both could be scum and am willing to accept that neither of you could be scum, or any combination of the two. I just gave my reads at the moment and you getting all hot and bothered about it is pretty scummy.
@RE1031: You are in the number 8 spot. Why do you keep saying that I'm calling you scum? If I had to pick a scum team right this second, assuming there are 3 scum (or even 2 scum and 1 3P), it would be the #12, #11, and #10 spot. Obviously, I not claiming any super mafia abilities that allows me to be exactly right about everyone, so if it ends up being that #12, #11, or #10 don't end up being scum, you of course would be considered by me. You getting so hung up on this isn't helping anything.
I unvoted you with out switching to someone else because I thought your response was decent enough. I needed to read more to decide who was worth my vote after that.
Don't misquote me. I never said "so if kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE is". I said that I think there is a chance that you both could be scum and am willing to accept that neither of you could be scum, or any combination of the two. I just gave my reads at the moment and you getting all hot and bothered about it is pretty scummy.
I'm not misquoting you, that's exactly what you said. I don't care if it's making me scummy, I don't get why you're denying your read is hypocritical when it blatantly is. Well, your initial read. Because now you're saying we could both be scum or we could both be not scum, which was not included in your list.
So... Am I just supposed to ignore that I'm listed under "scum lean" because I'm in the number 8 spot and PoE means I'm not scum?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@RE1031: You are in the number 8 spot. Why do you keep saying that I'm calling you scum? If I had to pick a scum team right this second, assuming there are 3 scum (or even 2 scum and 1 3P), it would be the #12, #11, and #10 spot. Obviously, I not claiming any super mafia abilities that allows me to be exactly right about everyone, so if it ends up being that #12, #11, or #10 don't end up being scum, you of course would be considered by me. You getting so hung up on this isn't helping anything.
I unvoted you with out switching to someone else because I thought your response was decent enough. I needed to read more to decide who was worth my vote after that.
Don't misquote me. I never said "so if kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE is". I said that I think there is a chance that you both could be scum and am willing to accept that neither of you could be scum, or any combination of the two. I just gave my reads at the moment and you getting all hot and bothered about it is pretty scummy.
I'm not misquoting you, that's exactly what you said. I don't care if it's making me scummy, I don't get why you're denying your read is hypocritical when it blatantly is. Well, your initial read. Because now you're saying we could both be scum or we could both be not scum, which was not included in your list.
So... Am I just supposed to ignore that I'm listed under "scum lean" because I'm in the number 8 spot and PoE means I'm not scum?
Yeah, by POE I'm not calling you scum, but you're doing your best to change my mind.
vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I'd like for you to answer my questions.
Why did you claim that I was misquoting you? Did you forget what you wrote?
Why is it that in your list I am under "scum lean" because I jumped on kpaca yet you have kpaca under "prob scum," meaning somehow I'd be scum for scumreading kpaca if he were to flip town yet you wouldn't?
Please explain because I'm not understanding how you're coming to these conclusions.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
vote: TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I'd like for you to answer my questions.
Why did you claim that I was misquoting you? Did you forget what you wrote?
Why is it that in your list I am under "scum lean" because I jumped on kpaca yet you have kpaca under "prob scum," meaning somehow I'd be scum for scumreading kpaca if he were to flip town yet you wouldn't?
Please explain because I'm not understanding how you're coming to these conclusions.
Are you OMGUS ing me on a scum lean read!?
I forgot I wrote that, you win.
I thought your jump on kpaca was weak in reasoning and felt opportunistic. That doesn't really change if he is scum or not. Do busses not exist where you come from?
I'm really not liking your progression on this topic. Take a step back and look at it. If you are town, as you claim, you are hugely (wow, spell check liked that, i guess trump made it a real word) over reacting. You weren't on the top of my list, why is this such a big deal? Lean scum, does not mean scum.
You want to lynch Kpaca? Roger? I don't think you really want to lynch me, you are just mad at me. But why? I literally said there are 4 people I'd rather lynch besides you. In a 12 person game with 3 scum, that would mean by the time I wanted to get to you, assuming nothing changed, with no scum deaths, we'd be on our last day which surely will have evolved my reads.
It's really not a big deal where I put you, but your reaction says caught scum. If you're town, get a hold of yourself. If you're scum then please, by all means keep overreacting.
It's really not a big deal where I put you, but your reaction says caught scum. If you're town, get a hold of yourself. If you're scum then please, by all means keep overreacting.
I'm overreacting because your read was hypocritical. Can you at least admit that?
My vote on you was for you to know that I'm serious. I don't see how you can call my vote on kpaca opportunistic when you are scum reading him yourself.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Considering I've only read the thread once and didn't think too much on it afterward I'll stick to leans. And yes, I'm being cautious and reluctant in presenting them but that's as I don't want to be misunderstood again and I'm not wholly confident in them as they hardly have anything to go by.
Leans:
1)RE1031 (Town) - I liked their observation. It shows there's interest in the game, even though that's not always telling. I liked what they did with their RVS. They retracted it upon seeing it as unproductive when they could have easily left it there and been lazy. They stuck by their opinion on Shinichi often being read scum even though they got some attention for it. In doing so they went against the vocal opinion even though it didn't serve an immediate purpose.
2)Shinichi (Town) - His posts seems like Shinichi from the last game I played with him. Often not giving much away aside from present moment gut feelings or thoughts. He's active which is a tell of interest. It's hard to discern what exactly are his mafia and town tells as I haven't seen him as mafia, but I don't see him coordinating with anyone or trying to influence thought.
3)Mindreaver (Mafia) - Most of the reasons I think this can be found in my catch-up post. #233 I didn't feel any genuine annoyance when they complained about lack of content. And while they may have contributed after the fact it wasn't directly due to a directed will, but more so interactions with others. Because of that, it appears to me more of an appeal to emotion as I believe Vaimes shared the same opinion, as did a few others. There's also the possibility of it acting as an excuse to not have an opinion at that time, but I don't remember any pressure on Mind leading up to it.
I also don't like how they brought up the SK in relevance to the flavor. That seemed like an unneeded attention shift which while forgotten still persists. Combined with their convoluted post and suspect list, it makes for an overall hollow town play to me which has me wondering if it's fake.
4)Vaimes (Mafia) - Similar reasons as Mindreaver, they appear hollow town to me. The change of mind regarding Schinichi, and weak reasons that were aroused in the beginning show lack of activity. Though, they're quite defensive about it which makes me wonder if that behavior is a part of their meta. Mind mentioned him being a robot, but I'm not getting an analytical impression from his thoughts and posts to match that bill. When it comes to my questions and quotes they don't care which to me shows lack of willing cooperation.
I don't really have any others. Mindreavers and Vaimes posts were the only ones to grab my attention. RE and Shinichi are simply the two I have the most experience with, and one is the reason I'm playing this game to begin with. Those four have been my main targets of focus as anymore and I'd have even less to give you.
I'll bite. Why the need to qualify this list in such a way? I don't understand why you're worried. I'm speaking specifically about the bolded.
I'll also talk to the reads list. Is there any reason you don't have an opinion on Grape? The rest of your post is largely about his criticism (which I do agree with, and it might get dismissed as OMGUS, but I do think you've got a problem of tearing down, and not actually adding anything). Seems odd that you wouldn't take that rebuttal to the next step and give us what you think he motivation is.
Can you go into what the implications of Me and Vaimes as scum together? I DO tend to bus my teammates like crazy, as scum. So I guess it would fit my established scumgame to go after him, when up until that point he was almost universally (at least as far as those posting at the time) townread. That seems counter productive to a Mind/Vaimes team though, and I don't think I'm usually that aggressive. What else would Me/Vaimes point to? I'm interested in how you're arriving here, and if you've considered the consequences, not necessarily that you're 100% right in these four, just so I'm being clear.
Finally, I"m gonna get dinged for "coaching" here, but read this again: "I also don't like how they brought up the SK in relevance to the flavor. That seemed like an unneeded attention shift which while forgotten still persists. Combined with their convoluted post and suspect list, it makes for an overall hollow town play to me which has me wondering if it's fake."
Is there a less combative way we can interact here? I mean most of this is ad hominem and irrelevant. We have different posting styles. Deal with it. If you have questions, ask me to clarify. But continuing to call my logic faulty/shifty/convoluted/suspect, without proving anything better, isn't helping. If you are town, act like it, and work with me. As far as talking about the serial killer aspect, it's the first thing I thought of when I saw Silence of the Lambs. If YOU didn't keep bringing it up, it'd be dead. People agreed a neutral SK is unlikely, fine, that leads me to believe I'm looking for 3 scum. I don't have a lot of setup knowledge, and I'm leveraging the thread's collective expertise in that area. So maybe I keep that to myself, to make myself look better? But I don't usually roll that way. You're not going to mislynch me with "oh *****, mind shouldn't have said that at this time".
It's really not a big deal where I put you, but your reaction says caught scum. If you're town, get a hold of yourself. If you're scum then please, by all means keep overreacting.
I'm overreacting because your read was hypocritical. Can you at least admit that?
My vote on you was for you to know that I'm serious. I don't see how you can call my vote on kpaca opportunistic when you are scum reading him yourself.
Observe the difference in the two reads presented on Kpaca below. One is decent one is built on twigs.
Quote from RSJT »
11. kpaca (Prob Scum) - RVS stuff seemed off/aggressive for RVS, no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts, defensive
I see, alright. vote: kpaca
Nobody townreads Shinichi that early. Nobody townreads Shinichi unless they've played with him before. Even if they've played with him before, they don't townread him. It doesn't matter much to me atm if Shinichi is town or scum, only that that's a read I can't buy. To top it off, I don't think I've read any justification behind the read. Yes, I'm sheeping a bit.
I see, alright. vote: kpaca
Nobody townreads Shinichi that early. Nobody townreads Shinichi unless they've played with him before. Even if they've played with him before, they don't townread him. It doesn't matter much to me atm if Shinichi is town or scum, only that that's a read I can't buy. To top it off, I don't think I've read any justification behind the read. Yes, I'm sheeping a bit.
Actually, our reads aren't that different. Unless you want to say "no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts" somehow isn't applicable to his read on Shinichi and refusal to explain it. But thanks for clarifying, all I needed to know was why you'd think two scum reads of the same person would make one player scummy and the other not should that person flip town.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
The point was, that when I told you I didn't find anything scummy about Shinichi, it could easily have been taken as "I think Shin is town". The reason I made that point, which I guess wasn't too clear now that I go back and read it was that REI, voted Kpaca on a pretty flimsy reason that he shouldn't have town-read shinichi that early. There were votes at the time on Kpaca and it reads to me as REI choosing to push Kpaca over, someone like me. I got some pretty early town-cred (for very little reasoning IMO), so a push on me wouldn't have been received too well at the time so REI chose to push Kpaca, which could be a easier lynch.
Well, I don't think you posted enough to be read at all, scum or town. A push on you as scum wouldn't have made sense even if you weren't being town read. (At the time.)
And it wasn't just that he town read Shinichi early, he didn't offer reasoning behind it. Like I said, it felt like an attempt to pocket Shinichi, especially since Shinichi was getting heat at the time. I'm not pushing anything at this point, or at least anything that I see lasting until the end of the 2 weeks. I could claim that there's nothing to go on, and post nothing until I find something that's not just "flimsy," or I could go and put content in the thread.
Really, none of us have posted much. This response is good though.
UNVOTE
But seriously, what changed? What does "good" mean? I didn't think good = built on twigs. I'm finding a lot of contradictions in your posts, so I'm gonna keep my vote on you.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
The point was, that when I told you I didn't find anything scummy about Shinichi, it could easily have been taken as "I think Shin is town". The reason I made that point, which I guess wasn't too clear now that I go back and read it was that REI, voted Kpaca on a pretty flimsy reason that he shouldn't have town-read shinichi that early. There were votes at the time on Kpaca and it reads to me as REI choosing to push Kpaca over, someone like me. I got some pretty early town-cred (for very little reasoning IMO), so a push on me wouldn't have been received too well at the time so REI chose to push Kpaca, which could be a easier lynch.
Well, I don't think you posted enough to be read at all, scum or town. A push on you as scum wouldn't have made sense even if you weren't being town read. (At the time.)
And it wasn't just that he town read Shinichi early, he didn't offer reasoning behind it. Like I said, it felt like an attempt to pocket Shinichi, especially since Shinichi was getting heat at the time. I'm not pushing anything at this point, or at least anything that I see lasting until the end of the 2 weeks. I could claim that there's nothing to go on, and post nothing until I find something that's not just "flimsy," or I could go and put content in the thread.
Really, none of us have posted much. This response is good though.
UNVOTE
But seriously, what changed? What does "good" mean? I didn't think good = built on twigs. I'm finding a lot of contradictions in your posts, so I'm gonna keep my vote on you.
I initially voted you for a weak vote on Kpaca, which is what I quoted and called "Built on Twigs". It was almost like an RVS vote, too far past the RVS. You explained your reasoning and I was satisfied with it for the time being. When I went through and read the game again to make my list, it still stuck out to me and combined with your response to Mindreader's flavor claim I had some misgivings about you. I listed Shinichi as Prob Scum and do you see this level of defensiveness from them? It really looks bad. Just because I say a response was good doesn't mean you get the town pass for the rest of the day.
Roger's response doesn't feel town for me but I want to mull it over a while longer.
In the meantime I'd like people to look at how much effort he spent claiming I was unjust an manipulative for taking his post out of context; when I announced I was doing so and encouraged people to look at it in context as well.
@Roger Sorry for the reads vs lean confusion. I meant reads not in the scum v town confidence marker, but in the laying out an opinion way. We got there anyway, but with some extra hedging.
RE vs Terry is a strange fight and my first instinct was t/t but I have doubts creeping in on RSJ.
Terry when you get a chance can you reply to my questions on your read wall?
Roger's response doesn't feel town for me but I want to mull it over a while longer.
In the meantime I'd like people to look at how much effort he spent claiming I was unjust an manipulative for taking his post out of context; when I announced I was doing so and encouraged people to look at it in context as well.
@Roger Sorry for the reads vs lean confusion. I meant reads not in the scum v town confidence marker, but in the laying out an opinion way. We got there anyway, but with some extra hedging.
RE vs Terry is a strange fight and my first instinct was t/t but I have doubts creeping in on RSJ.
Terry when you get a chance can you reply to my questions on your read wall?
I'm mobile, right now and I can't find what questions you have. What questions?
I initially voted you for a weak vote on Kpaca, which is what I quoted and called "Built on Twigs". It was almost like an RVS vote, too far past the RVS. You explained your reasoning and I was satisfied with it for the time being. When I went through and read the game again to make my list, it still stuck out to me and combined with your response to Mindreader's flavor claim I had some misgivings about you. I listed Shinichi as Prob Scum and do you see this level of defensiveness from them? It really looks bad. Just because I say a response was good doesn't mean you get the town pass for the rest of the day.
So you changed your mind. Sorry, but I can't get over that you're scum reading me for scum reading the same person you are. When you put that aside, all you have is a weird vibe from a post I made regarding flavor. I'm not going to back down just because you keep telling me I look really bad, if that's what you're hoping to accomplish. In fact, that's probably the reason I keep coming back because you keep making it a point that your reads are good and mine are bad, and so it follows that you think your read on me is good, which I strongly disagree with.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I know this is somewhat old but could you clarify? You noted that Mindreaver had a specific name attached to their role, as if that were not the case for you.
@Terry My reaction to Mindreaver's flavor hint was because I believe my character is good (I'm not too familiar with the book/movie), which is consistent with my alignment. So I was surprised to hear that was not the case for the all the roles.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
Roger's response doesn't feel town for me but I want to mull it over a while longer.
In the meantime I'd like people to look at how much effort he spent claiming I was unjust an manipulative for taking his post out of context; when I announced I was doing so and encouraged people to look at it in context as well.
@Roger Sorry for the reads vs lean confusion. I meant reads not in the scum v town confidence marker, but in the laying out an opinion way. We got there anyway, but with some extra hedging.
RE vs Terry is a strange fight and my first instinct was t/t but I have doubts creeping in on RSJ.
Terry when you get a chance can you reply to my questions on your read wall?
I'm mobile, right now and I can't find what questions you have. What questions?
Looking back it wasn't super obvious. I wanted you to show your work a bit more on Roger, RE, QH, and Shadow. And you've already done so on RE. But at this stage I don't get your reads on the other three.
So to be clear I am awful at mafia, but I believe this is caught scum as they say. First of look at the amount of effort spent discrediting me for snipping the context out. When I fully aknowledged that it was for effect and that you should look at the context as well. Classic scum tactic of trying to distract from the content by focusing on the method of the push. Also note that he then proceeds to snip the context out of my quotes for readability's sake but makes no such disclaimer.
Meta means nothing to me lol, ive learned from the past you can play amazingly as town and still flip scum.
Also logically in a closed setup everyones guilty till proven innocent since people can claim and still be scum.
Well then that makes things harder for the both of us. I'm not exactly well at reading people I don't know either.
While true, it's also logical that the majority is town and not mafia. Though, I suppose you meant right now instead of forever when you mentioned kpaca is guilty.
So I went through and snipped out all the quotes because I think removing the context here is important. Read all of the above responses everyone is tearing down an idea. Not a single one is offering a clear alternative or offering his own world view just attack and discredit over and over again. Doesn't even try to paint people as scum, just undermining arguments. You can go back and look at context if you need to, but there was space to provide your own opinions in the quotes rather than just painting them in a negative light. I think the final response with the 1, 2, 3 bullet points is where it's most obvious.
I don't much appreciate you removing the context of my posts in order to paint them in an unfair light. The context is important to understanding their motive and clarity. To remove it and paint it as something shows little thought on your end and is surprising. As it's a method I come to expect to be used to discredit people. If a man of the south were to praise the confederate flag, but no context given as to why. One could paint him as a racist bigot and make his motives unjust. But in actuality he could have a strong pride in his southern heritage and the men of his family who have fought and died in wars for his country inside and outside of the Civil War. And, who is tolerant of all people in his country as that's the way things are.
Then we have the quotes themselves (still removed from context fwiw) and his defense of them.
Quote from RogerSherman »
"I don't quite understand the context of the second sentence. If this was something you were considering beforehand why the pressure on Shin?"
"Why are you considering the flavor when it has no relevance to the game?"
"This post comes off too defensive with the snark attached at the end. It seems a little too early for that if there truly was hardly anything to have faith in reads on."
"I can see how these reasons would work for Kpaca and WG individually, but I'm not seeing how it relates to them being a team. Mafia doesn't have to be in sync with their strategies. Playing to your town meta early on in RVS is just as helpful as strong arming opinion and thought."
"Care to elaborate? Just what exactly is it about their interactions?"
Negative light or not, my opinions are clear in my posts.For the most part I am challenging what I see as weak or faulty reasoning while trying to understand the train of thought of others and how they got there. Why this is important? It's because weak and faulty reasoning are what lead to mis-lynches.If you notice I almost always include a question in my statements in order to encourage a response to help me better understand their mindset or the post itself. That or to have them rebuke me as you have done.
On the bolded portion of the defense, I would strongly disagree with that. I don't see a coherent view of the game coming through and I don't know where you stand on almost anyone in the game. With the exception of Mindreaver.
On the italics the first part rings much more true to me than the previous section. I see someone coming in and asking questions and poking holes in arguments. But that is all I see. And more poking holes than anything else. 3 of those statements are close to just flat dismissals. What I see more than anything else is an attempt to disrupt and discredit cases, which sure it will prevent mislynches, but it prevents scum lynches too.
And the underlined portion again starts off great very reasonable and matches up with your behavior but you haven't taken the next step of incorporating responses. You seem to be missing Mindreaver's point over and over again to the point where it begins to feel intentional. And the ad hominem attack at the end is again defensive in a way that feels similarlly scummy to the opening monologue about the confederate flag.
This raises huge red flags for me. Roger doesn't know their history to the best of my knowledge and this is the first bit of insight he offers. Feels buddyish to me.
The answer to the question was obvious from the post prior.
WG sounds pretty town. Not exactly certain what he sees as scummy from Vaimes, but his tone is townie.
AG, I know this game is off to a slow start, but how about some why's. Why is WG pretty town? Tone? You can do better. I don't want to mislynch you again, so do some splaining.
The bolded indicates it has happened before. Considering him mentioning it I drew the conclusion it has happened recently and for bad reason. I can understand how one would feel regret over a mislynch, especially if I found myself in another game with said person. This seemed obvious to me so I answered as I did to bring attention to the redundant question and show as much.
What could be gleaned from the question? You may use my response as example, but what have you solidly gleaned from that other than suspecting I'm buddying? What would be my purpose in buddying in that exact situation and time? Why Terry and no one else? I'm fine with you thinking that, but show some consideration with it.
Yes they had said that, but how on earth does you hopping in and answering that question for Terry add anything? Mind saw the post you're referring to and is asking Terry to clarify it. So in response you point him back to that post? I have no earthly idea how that helps you or Mindreaver find scum so I look for another motivation and the most likely one is you're buddied with either Terry or AG and are trying to cover for them by hijacking the question. The question Mind asked is relavent because Terry's response could have been very telling. Terry might have a strong read, he might just be expressing regret over a previous mislynch (I did that earlier in the thread), or he might have been making a slip that I think Terry is too good to have made. But forcing him to answer is relevant and you pointing him back to the quote he's questioning as an answer isn't. And if you thought the question Mind asked was worthless why not question him about that rather than giving him a non answer as an answer?
TLDR: Your fielding that question in that way doesn't advance the game. But you also don't challenge Mind on it when you after the fact suggest it's a worthless question. Feels protective of AG or Terry, unclear as to which.
I don't know what to make of this response to RE in general, but it gives me very strong unaligned feelings between Mind and Roger.
It along with the majority of that post was to share my thoughts on what I had read catching up. I had not formed any "world view" as of that time and still have yet to.
This last quote is super light. Point two goes out of his way to discredit Mind just a little bit and still really refuses to give his own take on the matter. In short my vote is serious.
I think you're zeroing in too much on me being mafia. I don't see how any of my second point goes to discredit Mind in any way. I was explaining how from the post I saw the second point as odd compared to the other two. It addressed two lone mafia that Mind had in considerations which contrasted the other two team scenarios. I also gave some of my conclusion from it that Mind seems to be looking for a mafia team instead of lone mafia. That's a minor detail but worth acknowledging to understand Mind's posts further on in the game as that's where his mind seems to be coming from. Also to clarify, I ask questions sometimes as I'm generally confused or curious to know more.
@Roger Hi! Can you please give me reads on any three players? Just your leaning and a small case please. Thanks
Reads and leaning are two separate things from what I've seen. A read is a definite Town or Mafia accusation where as a lean is suspicion without firm grounds with which to vote or act on. Considering I've only read the thread once and didn't think too much on it afterward I'll stick to leans. And yes, I'm being cautious and reluctant in presenting them but that's as I don't want to be misunderstood again and I'm not wholly confident in them as they hardly have anything to go by.
Leans:
1)RE1031 (Town) - I liked their observation. It shows there's interest in the game, even though that's not always telling. I liked what they did with their RVS. They retracted it upon seeing it as unproductive when they could have easily left it there and been lazy. They stuck by their opinion on Shinichi often being read scum even though they got some attention for it. In doing so they went against the vocal opinion even though it didn't serve an immediate purpose.
2)Shinichi (Town) - His posts seems like Shinichi from the last game I played with him. Often not giving much away aside from present moment gut feelings or thoughts. He's active which is a tell of interest. It's hard to discern what exactly are his mafia and town tells as I haven't seen him as mafia, but I don't see him coordinating with anyone or trying to influence thought.
3)Mindreaver (Mafia) - Most of the reasons I think this can be found in my catch-up post. #233 I didn't feel any genuine annoyance when they complained about lack of content. And while they may have contributed after the fact it wasn't directly due to a directed will, but more so interactions with others. Because of that, it appears to me more of an appeal to emotion as I believe Vaimes shared the same opinion, as did a few others. There's also the possibility of it acting as an excuse to not have an opinion at that time, but I don't remember any pressure on Mind leading up to it.
I also don't like how they brought up the SK in relevance to the flavor. That seemed like an unneeded attention shift which while forgotten still persists. Combined with their convoluted post and suspect list, it makes for an overall hollow town play to me which has me wondering if it's fake.
4)Vaimes (Mafia) - Similar reasons as Mindreaver, they appear hollow town to me. The change of mind regarding Schinichi, and weak reasons that were aroused in the beginning show lack of activity. Though, they're quite defensive about it which makes me wonder if that behavior is a part of their meta. Mind mentioned him being a robot, but I'm not getting an analytical impression from his thoughts and posts to match that bill. When it comes to my questions and quotes they don't care which to me shows lack of willing cooperation.
I don't really have any others. Mindreavers and Vaimes posts were the only ones to grab my attention. RE and Shinichi are simply the two I have the most experience with, and one is the reason I'm playing this game to begin with. Those four have been my main targets of focus as anymore and I'd have even less to give you.
I don't really want to talk about these reads right now, but I just want to take a minute and to enjoy how many people have run with the off handed "Vaimes is a robot" comment from Mindreaver. It's so funny to me when the description of Vaimes elsewhere (for example the exaggerated representation in Revolution Mafia) is of an incredibly nice guy who makes games feel more human. Aside over.
General thought: Kpaca, Hoodies, WG, and Shadow are all a bit under the radar right now. Also Shinichi somehow is as well (at least from my POV) despite leading the post count by a mile.
I've been phoning this game in for the past week or so, my workload has been high and energy low. I intent to pick up the pace, and actually engage this coming week.
If we were buddies i would not make it that painfully obvious nice try to I do give you some townie points for this though very little.
Post 20 has nothing to do with you, what exactly is your definition of white knighting?
Did i quote the wrong post because im pretty sure it does, you stood up for me when i said he was being aggresive.
CHainsawing in for a second as a third party I saw that as providing a meta dump and not standing up for you. Explaining that Kpaca is always like that and it's not really about you in that sense.
Yes but he had no reason to state that, i mean it was clear on its own so i still think it feels little off that he took the time to tell me that, like why?
I do know you, but don't forget I can care less about past games or any interaction outside of this game itself. So your implying hes jester do to just having a trolly attitude? I feel like if terry was scum i see no reason for him to unvote that easily. Vaines is def one of my strongest town reads but like I said it seems people dont like his early reactions towwards me. I can't really connect anyone or understand anyone at this point lol I am really bad at that early game.
Also you know grapefruit do u not lol?
That's the thing, Terry hasn't changed his mind about me and my scumminess, so I don't get why he unvoted me. It's not like it's because he found a better lead at the time. I don't get what he was hoping to accomplish by unvoting just from a single "good" post from me.
Yeah I know Grapefruit, but it's been a couple months since I played with him and I am currently getting weird vibes from him.
Interesting. I like you. Moving you to the town column. I hadn't really thought about it in that way.
I wasn't really trying to, give anyone a pass. I just wanted to share my thought process in the beginning. Obviously it's going to change. It's entirely possible that the entire scum team didn't post actively when the game started. In that case, I'm still pretty set on AG, at least until I get more from him. I'd like an answer from terry as well.
No one else feel weirded out be this post, it feels like reaver just pocketed RE10 super hard here.
Not this post, the one where he claims his flavor is bad but his role is good. I don't see scum doing that.
I know nothing about my flavor so I can't back up his statement I do know that flavor doesnt matter, so literally no reason for anyone to have stated that their flavor was evil but their alignment isnt. Also its not uncommon for someone to unvote, he felt like he got a good post from you. He then decided to unvote and most likely look towards someone else. What does he gain from only focusing on just you, it be more strange if he was so sure about his read this early game.
When someone called you out on it, you said "every read is soft at this stage." You neither defended it more elaborated on it.
well how do you know it's a flimsy soft read if I didn't explain why is my point.
Okay, so do you have an explanation or not?
My personal judgement is that it's flimsy because I see very little town motivation in his opening non-RVS posts.
I can feel the hate u have for me, or maybe thats just the urge of you wanting me to be scum really badly not sure which yet. Also how can you judge the town motivation outise of 1 of the first posts of the game.
I kind of don't think this is a scum post. For a lot of reasons but mostly because I don't think scum!Nichi would keep bringing the focus back on his behavior as opposed to letting the debate be about Kpaca's reasoning.
Vaimes who Shinichi town reads is scum reading Kpaca for his town read on Shinichi which he thinks was unjustified and hasn't been supported. Shinichi in his eagerness to be town read defends Kpaca's unsupported read and provides nontextual reasons. Gets scum reads for it and the game moves on. When it came back up it was really independent of opinions on Shinichi and no one was calling him scum but he still goes out of his way to defend himself. Just doesn't seem like a scum play to me, more like nervous town.
I am not nervous lol, I don't see where you sense that in any of my posts lol. I just don't find anything wrong with kpaca post, compared to any normal rvs phase that read is really common so i dont understand the focus on it. I am not eager to be town read people just town read me, I literally don't care how people see me or who votes me, i mean if I get lynched it just means i have to improve my town game thats all their is to it. On a seriousnote I still think both kpaca and Vaimes are town. I also think their interaction says something really interesting, though this just a hypothesis I think if one flips scum not saying either is scum but if 1 does flip scum i'm positive the other is town.
I still wanna know where you think i sound nervice
1. AtheistGod (Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
2. Grapefruit21 (Town)- Just from his interactions with vaimes and me I believe he is town atleast from the first 4 pages, time may change that.
3. kpaca (Town) - Like I said in a recent post he's more neutral/town lean than anything, his town read on me doesnt feel as sloppy as others make it out to be, honestly he's prob just noticecd something that others haven't.
4. Mindreaver (Neutral)- You come off as neutral for me for the same reason as QH but i don't know you as a player I just can't get a read off of you at all.
5. Quickhoodies (Neutral)-With his big posts and knowledge of the kind of player he is I honestly can't get anything from his posts.
6. RE1031(Scum Lean)- Your leaning way to onto just for my particular liking, I feel as though scum would normally just to pocket those who they are friends with and tho we aren't voting together it seems like you really like talking about me my DC buddy.
7. Roger Sherman(Neutral)-Not really enough to go by to figure out any sort of motive/Alignment
8. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-You seemed to be white knighting me alot which i found weird and i only noticed now after i back read, also you focused alot of your early posts on Kpaca, seem's like you were eager to jump on a person you could put alot of eyes on.
10. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- This prob very biased but his entrance alone screams town motivated and a town player
11. Vaimes (Town/Scum)- Our interaction states 1 thing either I'm scum or your scum, but I don't think either is true your reaction towards me states that your town. Only reason i put the scum part is because other feel as though that is what makes you a scumlean.
12. Wheat_Grinder (town)- I believe you are hands down town just from your interactions with the other players.
After tomorrow ill prob reread all of vaimes post so i can get a proper read on him, same goes for the others i tagged as scum or scum lean.
Let me show you how to do a list:
TOWN
1. TheRealStinkyJoeTerry (Town)- DUH
2. Mindreaver (Prob Town)- Flavor claim was solid and matched with mine. Scum never claims bad guy flavor in this situation
3. Wheat_Grinder (Lean Town)- Posts seem solvey, just suspicious enough, not defensive. Not sure I love his town read on me or the fact that AG spent his last two posts proclaiming WG's towniniess. I mean, I love to be obv town, but I seem like I got some pretty easy town red for my entrance from several people, WG included.
4. Quickhoodies (Lean Town)- Has some big meaty posts, but seems a bit absent lately. I know this game is going slow, but I expect more from QH before much longer.
5. Grapefruit21 (Null/Town)- I need to read more of this guy. I get a town vibe from his posts. They seem pretty explorative, but I'm going to watch him a bit longer to get a better read.
6. Vaimes (Null)- Vaimes play has seemed decent, but for some reason I'm getting the shivers about him. Maybe I'm scared of of his scum game, hence why he takes a null slot.
7. AtheistGod (Null/Scum)- If AG doesn't step up his posting soon, he's moving down this list pretty fast. All his posts are handing out town cred
8. RE1031(Scum Lean)- The jump on Kpaca was a bit opportunistic, so if Kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE1031 is. I don't like doing things like dichotomies but it's my though right now. Also seems surprised about Mindreader's flavor claim and I feel like might have made a PR Hunting note in #243.
9. shadowlancerx (Scum Lean)-The quick angle shot defense of Roger seemed a bit protective of someone I think is scum. I re-read Shadow's ISO and a lot of it seems like it's just yelling from the sidelines instead of on the game field. This is a tone thing and Shadow was a bit defensive when Shinichi leaned scum on him.
10. Shinichi (Prob Scum)- This one is my lightest scum read, but the list I'm quoting seemed real fence sitty, with not a ton of meat. Something felt off with her interaction with Kpaca which seems a bit fabricated. A lot of TBF, which kind of red flags me a bit. Claims a lot of people are reading her town.
11. kpaca (Prob Scum) - RVS stuff seemed off/aggressive for RVS, no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts, defensive
12. Roger Sherman(Prob Scum)-No motivation, posts seem long but hollow. Low posting SCUM
Ok, now that's done, let's party:
VOTE: Roger
Idk if this is a challenge but either way I like this read list alot better than mine. Though not a fan that you put your own name in the list.
I guess i'll just put my 2 cents here
2.How can you be so sure of that situation tho?
4.Why is he a town lean though?
6.I feel like vaimes shouldnt be a null at all with the amount of content he has, espically with the interaction between me and him.
9.I felt like his reaction to my read on him was weird too, but feel like he just thought my reads were bad.
10. What makes u think they were fabricated?
12.I see motivation i just cant ditinguish the alignment of that motivation.
In my continuing defense of Shinichi I like a lot of this post. Despite a few red flags (continuing slight defense of Kpaca) there are some pertinent questions in there. And asks some of the questions I have with wrt Terry's list.
That said one key question needs to be asked: what motivation are you seeing in Roger's posts?
And Shinichi to be clear I think your reads were bad too (but like you admitting you agree they were bad), but I don't think you're necessarily scum for it anymore.
I'm just bad in general with making read lists, i prefer making a single read on 1 person later in the game to help prove my supicions. Early read lists just never work for me nor do I see the use in others making them. Since I was ask though i decided to just provide others with my insight on the rest of the players.
It's clear hes trying to figure out the game, that's what im seeing in his posts. Only person i think could be justified with having no motivation is kpaca, But in all honesty I think everyone has some sort of motivation.
I feel like by stating someone has no motivation is just a way to pick on a person till they collapse of guilt, but that could still make them town.
Also is their something wrong with my defense of kpaca?
I can feel the hate u have for me, or maybe thats just the urge of you wanting me to be scum really badly not sure which yet. Also how can you judge the town motivation outise of 1 of the first posts of the game.
I don't hate you, dude. I just think you're mafia and should die. It's nothing personal.
I have gone over why I disliked your first non-RVS post many times already. Asking me the same question over and over again will not change my answer. And, again, I'm talking to kpaca here, not you.
If you're town, your win condition is to kill all the mafia, and you think I'm town, so. Go find mafia.
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Shinichi doesn't strike me at all as a nervous player.
Fair enough
But i'll also point that bolded sentence towards you because it also applies here.
Also asking the same question over and over is a fair tactic because people can slip up or just forget what their previous answer was, so why not just answer when asked?
@Shinichi
Re Shadow talking about Kpaca: I think his meta dump was relevant. You can see the way that he's acting, but without Shadow's post how are you to know that is standard behavior and not outside his normal meta. And again no part of the post was defending you, just providing info on Kpaca.
Re Where you sound Nervous: As I said in a later post to Vaimes, nervous might not have been the right word. Self conscious might be a better descriptor. Where I see it is in your continual focus on things that refer to you. You continuing bringing up and defense of your justification of Kpaca's read on you for example.
Re Kpaca's post: Getting a clear read from that like Kpaca is hugely unusual. It would be like similiar to Grrr dropping a very strong town read on someone. It's going to provoke follow up questions as a result since there was no justification provided. For the umpteenth time the fact that unprovoked you attempted to supply justification for him that was unsupported in the game looks incredibly suspect. And Kpaca's read looks incredibly suspect because he waffled around with it and never provided more reasoning. If he'd stuck with his call and fully endorsed it without providing any reasoning I'd be less suspicious than I am with him waffling about it. Hope that clears up my issues with his post and your response to it.
Re Roger Sherman: To be clear I don't think his posts lack motivation: and that's why I don't like Terry's read. But I want to know exactly where you are seeing his motivation. Which to define I am thinking of in terms of agenda. As in a motivation behind his posts where I see him working towards a goal. Show me where it's clear he's trying to figure out the game. Because his interaction with Mindreaver shows the opposite to me.
I see, thanks. I kept scrolling and didn't see anything o.o
You can search threads by players in two ways. The first is the search function at the top of the thread. Searching This Thread by author will show all of 1 persons votes on their own.
Alternatively you can click the post count next to the thread on the subforum's page and it will list everyone's post counts link the same thing.
I see, thanks. I kept scrolling and didn't see anything o.o
You can search threads by players in two ways. The first is the search function at the top of the thread. Searching This Thread by author will show all of 1 persons votes on their own.
Alternatively you can click the post count next to the thread on the subforum's page and it will list everyone's post counts link the same thing.
Sweet thanks, I heard about this "built in ISO" feature but I wasn't sure how it worked.
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When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
I don't have much of a case but I'm fairly certain Wheat_Grinder is scum. Literally none of their reads make sense and it all seems like scum just trying to look busy. Regardless of whether Vaimes is town or scum (he's more town than scum to me atm), no one should be that focused on one player this early.
@Wheat_Grinder
Who are your suspects besides Vaimes?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When the point of no return appears, it is already behind you.
@RE I agree with your observation on Wheat, but I'm not as sure of your conclusion. Will try to keepan eye on it. What do you think of my case on Roger.
@AG - I'd like more from you. More everything. I get that things can be busy, but it's been a week now, and you have 3 sentences to your name. People want to give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd rather be voting/perusing other people, but this level of input isn't working. Maybe just a reads list to show you're reading along? Answer some followup to it? That's really the minimum level of input we need from you.
@Geape - I'm dying to know what you found. I'll ask post game, when you won't have to trust me that it can't happen.
@Shinichi
Re Shadow talking about Kpaca: I think his meta dump was relevant. You can see the way that he's acting, but without Shadow's post how are you to know that is standard behavior and not outside his normal meta. And again no part of the post was defending you, just providing info on Kpaca.
Re Where you sound Nervous: As I said in a later post to Vaimes, nervous might not have been the right word. Self conscious might be a better descriptor. Where I see it is in your continual focus on things that refer to you. You continuing bringing up and defense of your justification of Kpaca's read on you for example.
Re Kpaca's post: Getting a clear read from that like Kpaca is hugely unusual. It would be like similiar to Grrr dropping a very strong town read on someone. It's going to provoke follow up questions as a result since there was no justification provided. For the umpteenth time the fact that unprovoked you attempted to supply justification for him that was unsupported in the game looks incredibly suspect. And Kpaca's read looks incredibly suspect because he waffled around with it and never provided more reasoning. If he'd stuck with his call and fully endorsed it without providing any reasoning I'd be less suspicious than I am with him waffling about it. Hope that clears up my issues with his post and your response to it.
Re Roger Sherman: To be clear I don't think his posts lack motivation: and that's why I don't like Terry's read. But I want to know exactly where you are seeing his motivation. Which to define I am thinking of in terms of agenda. As in a motivation behind his posts where I see him working towards a goal. Show me where it's clear he's trying to figure out the game. Because his interaction with Mindreaver shows the opposite to me.
Regardless i don't care about meta with or without his post Kpaca play style is quite clear, nor did i even ask for any form of clarification.
Not sure where u get the self concious part, but its true regardless of alignment i am very self concious of my actions.
Ok well give me 1 reason why i would stand up for kpaca if we are scum together? I have experience I wouldn't do anything as scum that would reveal my connection to my buddies. Also you never seen me as scum if i recall so its weird seeing u say all this stuff.
I sense motivation in his post if he had no motivation he would have just let himself be replaced in the end, I don't think its fair to justify every post as town motivation.
2. It's too gutsy for scum to claim it. I can't be certain, but from where I sit now, it's the most certain read i have.
4. Because I liked the amount of effort put into his wall posts
6. I feel like most of the people that are voting vaimes are being a bit paranoid of Vaimes being good scum and ignoring the possibility of him just being town. Vaimes is good scum in general, I just haven't been able to decide which one he is in this game yet, hence a null read.
10. I can't really put my finger on it, it just didn't feel sincere. I'll go back and re-read and try to give you more details.
I get what ur saying but I'm always wary of what scum are capable of doing
Well it is mafia so being paranoid is something very common, espically for me since i don't know any players so im quite cautious on just giving everyone a town lean, but i still feel like even with the paranoia this guy has way too much content to just be a null.
Well if you can point out a specific line or quote that feels fabricated i would like to read it, because I dont even think im a good enough player to fake a conversation lol.
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Blue Numbers added for my convenience above.
1) Dude you went from the 12 spot to the 8 spot. Did you think an unvote was a town clear for you?
You went from the 12 spot to the 8 spot. An unvote does not equal town clear.
I didn't say you made a PR hunting note for everyone to see, I implied that I felt like it was you making a mental note to yourself.
At the time, I felt the vote was opportunistic. I still wouldn't rule it out as a bus vote either. It had a weak back bone. I still think Kpaca has been scummy and I've liked some of your post since. I voted Kpaca early (earlier than you) because he was needing some attention. Why are you so jumpy? I've have you in the 8 spot, it's not a big deal.
My list works like a 1 to 12 scale at that moment in time where 1 is least likely to be scum in my opinion and 12 most likely.
RE: WG: I don't see what is too confusing about this. Overall, the posting seems town, but I'm concerned a bit with the easy town red I got from him, but then again, I'm town, so it's not too hard to forgive.
RE: QH: Again I don't see what is confusing about my read on him. I liked his wall posts, but haven't heard much lately from him
2. It's too gutsy for scum to claim it. I can't be certain, but from where I sit now, it's the most certain read i have.
4. Because I liked the amount of effort put into his wall posts
6. I feel like most of the people that are voting vaimes are being a bit paranoid of Vaimes being good scum and ignoring the possibility of him just being town. Vaimes is good scum in general, I just haven't been able to decide which one he is in this game yet, hence a null read.
10. I can't really put my finger on it, it just didn't feel sincere. I'll go back and re-read and try to give you more details.
I don't think it was any clear, but I don't get why you would unvote and leave it as an unvote. You didn't immediately vote for the person who took my place in the number 12 spot. If I'm still possibly scum to you, then you're not going to get anything out of leaving a vote on me for a very short period of time. Why did you unvote if you still thought I was scum?
Yeah... I'm a little annoyed. My written post gave you a feeling that I was making a mental note? So are you saying I slipped?
And it's a big deal to me when your reasoning is pretty hypocritical.
"so if kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE is"
I'm suspicious of kpaca, you're suspicious of kpaca. Why is it that if kpaca isn't scum, you'd bet I'm scum when you're in the same position?
I'm not too concerned with your read on QH, but I don't think WG has done anything townie. He's been tunneling on Vaimes for as long as I can remember.
While true, it's also logical that the majority is town and not mafia. Though, I suppose you meant right now instead of forever when you mentioned kpaca is guilty.
I don't much appreciate you removing the context of my posts in order to paint them in an unfair light. The context is important to understanding their motive and clarity. To remove it and paint it as something shows little thought on your end and is surprising. As it's a method I come to expect to be used to discredit people. If a man of the south were to praise the confederate flag, but no context given as to why. One could paint him as a racist bigot and make his motives unjust. But in actuality he could have a strong pride in his southern heritage and the men of his family who have fought and died in wars for his country inside and outside of the Civil War. And, who is tolerant of all people in his country as that's the way things are.
"Why are you considering the flavor when it has no relevance to the game?"
"This post comes off too defensive with the snark attached at the end. It seems a little too early for that if there truly was hardly anything to have faith in reads on."
"I can see how these reasons would work for Kpaca and WG individually, but I'm not seeing how it relates to them being a team. Mafia doesn't have to be in sync with their strategies. Playing to your town meta early on in RVS is just as helpful as strong arming opinion and thought."
"Care to elaborate? Just what exactly is it about their interactions?"
The answer to the question was obvious from the post prior.
#204
The bolded indicates it has happened before. Considering him mentioning it I drew the conclusion it has happened recently and for bad reason. I can understand how one would feel regret over a mislynch, especially if I found myself in another game with said person. This seemed obvious to me so I answered as I did to bring attention to the redundant question and show as much.
What could be gleaned from the question? You may use my response as example, but what have you solidly gleaned from that other than suspecting I'm buddying? What would be my purpose in buddying in that exact situation and time? Why Terry and no one else? I'm fine with you thinking that, but show some consideration with it.
It along with the majority of that post was to share my thoughts on what I had read catching up. I had not formed any "world view" as of that time and still have yet to.
Why specifically? Was it the importance placed on flavor or simply acknowledging it?
I think you're zeroing in too much on me being mafia. I don't see how any of my second point goes to discredit Mind in any way. I was explaining how from the post I saw the second point as odd compared to the other two. It addressed two lone mafia that Mind had in considerations which contrasted the other two team scenarios. I also gave some of my conclusion from it that Mind seems to be looking for a mafia team instead of lone mafia. That's a minor detail but worth acknowledging to understand Mind's posts further on in the game as that's where his mind seems to be coming from. Also to clarify, I ask questions sometimes as I'm generally confused or curious to know more.
Reads and leaning are two separate things from what I've seen. A read is a definite Town or Mafia accusation where as a lean is suspicion without firm grounds with which to vote or act on. Considering I've only read the thread once and didn't think too much on it afterward I'll stick to leans. And yes, I'm being cautious and reluctant in presenting them but that's as I don't want to be misunderstood again and I'm not wholly confident in them as they hardly have anything to go by.
Leans:
1)RE1031 (Town) - I liked their observation. It shows there's interest in the game, even though that's not always telling. I liked what they did with their RVS. They retracted it upon seeing it as unproductive when they could have easily left it there and been lazy. They stuck by their opinion on Shinichi often being read scum even though they got some attention for it. In doing so they went against the vocal opinion even though it didn't serve an immediate purpose.
2)Shinichi (Town) - His posts seems like Shinichi from the last game I played with him. Often not giving much away aside from present moment gut feelings or thoughts. He's active which is a tell of interest. It's hard to discern what exactly are his mafia and town tells as I haven't seen him as mafia, but I don't see him coordinating with anyone or trying to influence thought.
3)Mindreaver (Mafia) - Most of the reasons I think this can be found in my catch-up post. #233 I didn't feel any genuine annoyance when they complained about lack of content. And while they may have contributed after the fact it wasn't directly due to a directed will, but more so interactions with others. Because of that, it appears to me more of an appeal to emotion as I believe Vaimes shared the same opinion, as did a few others. There's also the possibility of it acting as an excuse to not have an opinion at that time, but I don't remember any pressure on Mind leading up to it.
I also don't like how they brought up the SK in relevance to the flavor. That seemed like an unneeded attention shift which while forgotten still persists. Combined with their convoluted post and suspect list, it makes for an overall hollow town play to me which has me wondering if it's fake.
4)Vaimes (Mafia) - Similar reasons as Mindreaver, they appear hollow town to me. The change of mind regarding Schinichi, and weak reasons that were aroused in the beginning show lack of activity. Though, they're quite defensive about it which makes me wonder if that behavior is a part of their meta. Mind mentioned him being a robot, but I'm not getting an analytical impression from his thoughts and posts to match that bill. When it comes to my questions and quotes they don't care which to me shows lack of willing cooperation.
I don't really have any others. Mindreavers and Vaimes posts were the only ones to grab my attention. RE and Shinichi are simply the two I have the most experience with, and one is the reason I'm playing this game to begin with. Those four have been my main targets of focus as anymore and I'd have even less to give you.
I unvoted you with out switching to someone else because I thought your response was decent enough. I needed to read more to decide who was worth my vote after that.
Don't misquote me. I never said "so if kpaca isn't scum, I'd bet RE is". I said that I think there is a chance that you both could be scum and am willing to accept that neither of you could be scum, or any combination of the two. I just gave my reads at the moment and you getting all hot and bothered about it is pretty scummy.
I'm not misquoting you, that's exactly what you said. I don't care if it's making me scummy, I don't get why you're denying your read is hypocritical when it blatantly is. Well, your initial read. Because now you're saying we could both be scum or we could both be not scum, which was not included in your list.
So... Am I just supposed to ignore that I'm listed under "scum lean" because I'm in the number 8 spot and PoE means I'm not scum?
I'd like for you to answer my questions.
Why did you claim that I was misquoting you? Did you forget what you wrote?
Why is it that in your list I am under "scum lean" because I jumped on kpaca yet you have kpaca under "prob scum," meaning somehow I'd be scum for scumreading kpaca if he were to flip town yet you wouldn't?
Please explain because I'm not understanding how you're coming to these conclusions.
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Does anyone else have any experience with kpaca? He's supe UTR.
Same wth AG but I've played with him enough times to know that it's just par for the course with him.
Are you OMGUS ing me on a scum lean read!?
I forgot I wrote that, you win.
I thought your jump on kpaca was weak in reasoning and felt opportunistic. That doesn't really change if he is scum or not. Do busses not exist where you come from?
I'm really not liking your progression on this topic. Take a step back and look at it. If you are town, as you claim, you are hugely (wow, spell check liked that, i guess trump made it a real word) over reacting. You weren't on the top of my list, why is this such a big deal? Lean scum, does not mean scum.
You want to lynch Kpaca? Roger? I don't think you really want to lynch me, you are just mad at me. But why? I literally said there are 4 people I'd rather lynch besides you. In a 12 person game with 3 scum, that would mean by the time I wanted to get to you, assuming nothing changed, with no scum deaths, we'd be on our last day which surely will have evolved my reads.
It's really not a big deal where I put you, but your reaction says caught scum. If you're town, get a hold of yourself. If you're scum then please, by all means keep overreacting.
I'm overreacting because your read was hypocritical. Can you at least admit that?
My vote on you was for you to know that I'm serious. I don't see how you can call my vote on kpaca opportunistic when you are scum reading him yourself.
I was following the Champs discussion and I got the impression that yoy were strong in either alignment
I'll also talk to the reads list. Is there any reason you don't have an opinion on Grape? The rest of your post is largely about his criticism (which I do agree with, and it might get dismissed as OMGUS, but I do think you've got a problem of tearing down, and not actually adding anything). Seems odd that you wouldn't take that rebuttal to the next step and give us what you think he motivation is.
Can you go into what the implications of Me and Vaimes as scum together? I DO tend to bus my teammates like crazy, as scum. So I guess it would fit my established scumgame to go after him, when up until that point he was almost universally (at least as far as those posting at the time) townread. That seems counter productive to a Mind/Vaimes team though, and I don't think I'm usually that aggressive. What else would Me/Vaimes point to? I'm interested in how you're arriving here, and if you've considered the consequences, not necessarily that you're 100% right in these four, just so I'm being clear.
Finally, I"m gonna get dinged for "coaching" here, but read this again: "I also don't like how they brought up the SK in relevance to the flavor. That seemed like an unneeded attention shift which while forgotten still persists. Combined with their convoluted post and suspect list, it makes for an overall hollow town play to me which has me wondering if it's fake."
Is there a less combative way we can interact here? I mean most of this is ad hominem and irrelevant. We have different posting styles. Deal with it. If you have questions, ask me to clarify. But continuing to call my logic faulty/shifty/convoluted/suspect, without proving anything better, isn't helping. If you are town, act like it, and work with me. As far as talking about the serial killer aspect, it's the first thing I thought of when I saw Silence of the Lambs. If YOU didn't keep bringing it up, it'd be dead. People agreed a neutral SK is unlikely, fine, that leads me to believe I'm looking for 3 scum. I don't have a lot of setup knowledge, and I'm leveraging the thread's collective expertise in that area. So maybe I keep that to myself, to make myself look better? But I don't usually roll that way. You're not going to mislynch me with "oh *****, mind shouldn't have said that at this time".
Actually, our reads aren't that different. Unless you want to say "no reasoning or logic behind his votes and his posts" somehow isn't applicable to his read on Shinichi and refusal to explain it. But thanks for clarifying, all I needed to know was why you'd think two scum reads of the same person would make one player scummy and the other not should that person flip town.
But seriously, what changed? What does "good" mean? I didn't think good = built on twigs. I'm finding a lot of contradictions in your posts, so I'm gonna keep my vote on you.
In the meantime I'd like people to look at how much effort he spent claiming I was unjust an manipulative for taking his post out of context; when I announced I was doing so and encouraged people to look at it in context as well.
@Roger Sorry for the reads vs lean confusion. I meant reads not in the scum v town confidence marker, but in the laying out an opinion way. We got there anyway, but with some extra hedging.
RE vs Terry is a strange fight and my first instinct was t/t but I have doubts creeping in on RSJ.
Terry when you get a chance can you reply to my questions on your read wall?
So you changed your mind. Sorry, but I can't get over that you're scum reading me for scum reading the same person you are. When you put that aside, all you have is a weird vibe from a post I made regarding flavor. I'm not going to back down just because you keep telling me I look really bad, if that's what you're hoping to accomplish. In fact, that's probably the reason I keep coming back because you keep making it a point that your reads are good and mine are bad, and so it follows that you think your read on me is good, which I strongly disagree with.
I know this is somewhat old but could you clarify? You noted that Mindreaver had a specific name attached to their role, as if that were not the case for you.
@Terry My reaction to Mindreaver's flavor hint was because I believe my character is good (I'm not too familiar with the book/movie), which is consistent with my alignment. So I was surprised to hear that was not the case for the all the roles.
Looking back it wasn't super obvious. I wanted you to show your work a bit more on Roger, RE, QH, and Shadow. And you've already done so on RE. But at this stage I don't get your reads on the other three.
Then we have the quotes themselves (still removed from context fwiw) and his defense of them.
On the bolded portion of the defense, I would strongly disagree with that. I don't see a coherent view of the game coming through and I don't know where you stand on almost anyone in the game. With the exception of Mindreaver.
On the italics the first part rings much more true to me than the previous section. I see someone coming in and asking questions and poking holes in arguments. But that is all I see. And more poking holes than anything else. 3 of those statements are close to just flat dismissals. What I see more than anything else is an attempt to disrupt and discredit cases, which sure it will prevent mislynches, but it prevents scum lynches too.
And the underlined portion again starts off great very reasonable and matches up with your behavior but you haven't taken the next step of incorporating responses. You seem to be missing Mindreaver's point over and over again to the point where it begins to feel intentional. And the ad hominem attack at the end is again defensive in a way that feels similarlly scummy to the opening monologue about the confederate flag.
Yes they had said that, but how on earth does you hopping in and answering that question for Terry add anything? Mind saw the post you're referring to and is asking Terry to clarify it. So in response you point him back to that post? I have no earthly idea how that helps you or Mindreaver find scum so I look for another motivation and the most likely one is you're buddied with either Terry or AG and are trying to cover for them by hijacking the question. The question Mind asked is relavent because Terry's response could have been very telling. Terry might have a strong read, he might just be expressing regret over a previous mislynch (I did that earlier in the thread), or he might have been making a slip that I think Terry is too good to have made. But forcing him to answer is relevant and you pointing him back to the quote he's questioning as an answer isn't. And if you thought the question Mind asked was worthless why not question him about that rather than giving him a non answer as an answer?
TLDR: Your fielding that question in that way doesn't advance the game. But you also don't challenge Mind on it when you after the fact suggest it's a worthless question. Feels protective of AG or Terry, unclear as to which.
Fair enough.
I want to see other people's opinions before I tell you how to correct your behavior there [/quote]
I don't really want to talk about these reads right now, but I just want to take a minute and to enjoy how many people have run with the off handed "Vaimes is a robot" comment from Mindreaver. It's so funny to me when the description of Vaimes elsewhere (for example the exaggerated representation in Revolution Mafia) is of an incredibly nice guy who makes games feel more human. Aside over.
Yes but he had no reason to state that, i mean it was clear on its own so i still think it feels little off that he took the time to tell me that, like why?
I know nothing about my flavor so I can't back up his statement I do know that flavor doesnt matter, so literally no reason for anyone to have stated that their flavor was evil but their alignment isnt. Also its not uncommon for someone to unvote, he felt like he got a good post from you. He then decided to unvote and most likely look towards someone else. What does he gain from only focusing on just you, it be more strange if he was so sure about his read this early game.
I am not nervous lol, I don't see where you sense that in any of my posts lol. I just don't find anything wrong with kpaca post, compared to any normal rvs phase that read is really common so i dont understand the focus on it. I am not eager to be town read people just town read me, I literally don't care how people see me or who votes me, i mean if I get lynched it just means i have to improve my town game thats all their is to it. On a seriousnote I still think both kpaca and Vaimes are town. I also think their interaction says something really interesting, though this just a hypothesis I think if one flips scum not saying either is scum but if 1 does flip scum i'm positive the other is town.
I still wanna know where you think i sound nervice
I'm just bad in general with making read lists, i prefer making a single read on 1 person later in the game to help prove my supicions. Early read lists just never work for me nor do I see the use in others making them. Since I was ask though i decided to just provide others with my insight on the rest of the players.
It's clear hes trying to figure out the game, that's what im seeing in his posts. Only person i think could be justified with having no motivation is kpaca, But in all honesty I think everyone has some sort of motivation.
I feel like by stating someone has no motivation is just a way to pick on a person till they collapse of guilt, but that could still make them town.
Also is their something wrong with my defense of kpaca?
Fair enough
But i'll also point that bolded sentence towards you because it also applies here.
Also asking the same question over and over is a fair tactic because people can slip up or just forget what their previous answer was, so why not just answer when asked?
This just feels like lazy scum, like as town you should be providing examples for others to follow.
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Reminder to myself to go over Grapefruit's Roger case, but in the meantime
Unvote, vote kpaca
Re Shadow talking about Kpaca: I think his meta dump was relevant. You can see the way that he's acting, but without Shadow's post how are you to know that is standard behavior and not outside his normal meta. And again no part of the post was defending you, just providing info on Kpaca.
Re Where you sound Nervous: As I said in a later post to Vaimes, nervous might not have been the right word. Self conscious might be a better descriptor. Where I see it is in your continual focus on things that refer to you. You continuing bringing up and defense of your justification of Kpaca's read on you for example.
Re Kpaca's post: Getting a clear read from that like Kpaca is hugely unusual. It would be like similiar to Grrr dropping a very strong town read on someone. It's going to provoke follow up questions as a result since there was no justification provided. For the umpteenth time the fact that unprovoked you attempted to supply justification for him that was unsupported in the game looks incredibly suspect. And Kpaca's read looks incredibly suspect because he waffled around with it and never provided more reasoning. If he'd stuck with his call and fully endorsed it without providing any reasoning I'd be less suspicious than I am with him waffling about it. Hope that clears up my issues with his post and your response to it.
Re Roger Sherman: To be clear I don't think his posts lack motivation: and that's why I don't like Terry's read. But I want to know exactly where you are seeing his motivation. Which to define I am thinking of in terms of agenda. As in a motivation behind his posts where I see him working towards a goal. Show me where it's clear he's trying to figure out the game. Because his interaction with Mindreaver shows the opposite to me.
Did kpaca change his username or something? Cause he's not actually in that game...
I see, thanks. I kept scrolling and didn't see anything o.o
You can search threads by players in two ways. The first is the search function at the top of the thread. Searching This Thread by author will show all of 1 persons votes on their own.
Alternatively you can click the post count next to the thread on the subforum's page and it will list everyone's post counts link the same thing.
Sweet thanks, I heard about this "built in ISO" feature but I wasn't sure how it worked.
@Wheat_Grinder
Who are your suspects besides Vaimes?
What led to that conclusion?
@AG - I'd like more from you. More everything. I get that things can be busy, but it's been a week now, and you have 3 sentences to your name. People want to give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd rather be voting/perusing other people, but this level of input isn't working. Maybe just a reads list to show you're reading along? Answer some followup to it? That's really the minimum level of input we need from you.
@Geape - I'm dying to know what you found. I'll ask post game, when you won't have to trust me that it can't happen.
Thats your opinion not mine, if people dont wanna answer repeat question is just means they're hiding something
Regardless i don't care about meta with or without his post Kpaca play style is quite clear, nor did i even ask for any form of clarification.
Not sure where u get the self concious part, but its true regardless of alignment i am very self concious of my actions.
Ok well give me 1 reason why i would stand up for kpaca if we are scum together? I have experience I wouldn't do anything as scum that would reveal my connection to my buddies. Also you never seen me as scum if i recall so its weird seeing u say all this stuff.
I sense motivation in his post if he had no motivation he would have just let himself be replaced in the end, I don't think its fair to justify every post as town motivation.
I get what ur saying but I'm always wary of what scum are capable of doing
Well it is mafia so being paranoid is something very common, espically for me since i don't know any players so im quite cautious on just giving everyone a town lean, but i still feel like even with the paranoia this guy has way too much content to just be a null.
Well if you can point out a specific line or quote that feels fabricated i would like to read it, because I dont even think im a good enough player to fake a conversation lol.