The funny thing, is that if Killjoy flips scum, It still wont deter me from thinking osie is scum, and if he flips town, Osie is stil scum... almost a win/win except for killjoy flips town... time to see how the votes change in the coming days...
The funny thing, is that if Killjoy flips scum, It still wont deter me from thinking osie is scum, and if he flips town, Osie is stil scum... almost a win/win except for killjoy flips town... time to see how the votes change in the coming days...
*except for if killjoy flips town, cant say I know which one, since im not scum lol...
Axel is right that the proposal of a 9 BP plan by KJ is delusional.
And that is a ton of claimed abilities. Still think there are more obvious behavioral scum, but as of this evening I'm sensing more in the way of wishful thinking that I didn't read enough of it's history and the town might be right in spite of certain of the just plain terrible arguments against him.
I don't know that we want to give me any BP. As is, we can effectively suicide me on demand by blowing my minus and betraying me, giving the town a spare vig shot. If we need to do that prior to entering lylo, it helps to have me at exactly 3 or 1. Unless we can use abilities to kill ourselves, too? Then we could theoretically eke an extra doc protect out of me. But I'm skeptical Shin will let me do any good with it.
Anyways, if you guys do decide you can't read me correctly, suicide is an option.
I don't think suicide is in the spirit of the game. I think it's always against your wincon. Also, if you were to lose a BP to AB and your ability cost would kill you, you just don't perform the ability, you don't suicide.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
hmm I thought u couldnt suicide naturally using ur BP, I always thought it was still possible to die, if you use ur ability and get betrayed still...
@Bur question time lol
The Order of Operations would seem to imply you can suicide. It checks abilities first, then AB pairings. Let's say I'm at 3, and I use my ability, taking me to 1, and then I get betrayed. How would Bur retroactively not have my ability occur?
ok so in the 43.5 hours/~400 posts between jenna initially claiming watcher and claiming her track result, killjoy made 7 posts
1 - defending himself/mildly omgusing terry
2 - "i did not" in response to jenna directly asking him if he targeted dv
3 - a clarification of 1
4 - doubtcasting townreads of whisper
5 - explaining why hes not posting
6 - answers a question from lngrr about who he would shoot. cyth/osi/az/iso
7 - a clarifaction on 6
only allusion to jenna's claim is the "i did not"
so if kj is town watcher, he sees someone claim another watch. after just seeing a cop flip. and doesnt comment at all?
i mean i guess that makes sense from a "just letting it play out" perspective
but being a watcher and not actually reading the claim of the person that you think is claiming watcher?
and voting with her?
Everyone claim if they targetted Person X->Everyone claims->Vote Person Y obviously signals some kind of watcher/tracker ability. The context obviously pointed to ONE of them. I just guessed the wrong one.
I voted you because it seemed obvious that she thought she caught you via investigate. And I wanted to put some pressure on you for that reason, and partially to gauge your reaction to said pressure. (Misunderstanding your role was NAI, but I think actually forgetting that you could have commited the mafia kill was probably +town. I did also like the apology at the end of the post where you clarified about the passive targeting.)
you guessed the wrong one?
she claimed watcher directly. it was a major topic of conversation. and hes supposed have a watch shot too?
like, earlier i said townkilljoy would carefully read the claim post before voting. watchertownkilljoy even moreso.
what do you mean by this? Betray?
might be better for you to Ally with townreads who will choose Betray...giving them the extra BP they need (except me ofc). I'm sure you have the BP to spare.
I don't know that we want to give me any BP. As is, we can effectively suicide me on demand by blowing my minus and betraying me, giving the town a spare vig shot. If we need to do that prior to entering lylo, it helps to have me at exactly 3 or 1. Unless we can use abilities to kill ourselves, too? Then we could theoretically eke an extra doc protect out of me. But I'm skeptical Shin will let me do any good with it.
my flip will clarify lots of things, which is why - "if I'm lucky to be NK'd" - I don't think I will be NK'd. you should keep the save for Terry. I'll try to roleblock a nightkill. we also need to consider the BP Taker, who could disable you as much as the Betray can. I guess if your BP was stolen via ability, you will be unable to use your protect if it'll lead to suicide.... I hope we lynch Shin, because it sounds bad if we ever get paired up with him. I can totally see the villainous handshake in AB limitations lol.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Terry, suicide is completely appropriate as a means to further win conditions. If the town is going to want to clear you from the POE regardless, then creating a free vig is optimal. Period.
But nice of you to caustically use even that proposal as a supposed scum tell. You certainly appear to be calmly, judiciously, and objectively using critical thinking to evaluate the game state in a conpletely pro town manner.
To clarify, suicide by modkills is not kosher. Suicide by mechanics, is. If you don't remember, some of us discussed this as a larger scale plan three thousand posts ago?
Phraze
What I was saying is, I dont think we will get paired up again, maybe we will? I honestly dont know if the person gets removed from your possible pile, or if they still have equal chance of being paired with you again... But if it manages to happen again, then I would ally him
Phraze
What I was saying is, I dont think we will get paired up again, maybe we will? I honestly dont know if the person gets removed from your possible pile, or if they still have equal chance of being paired with you again... But if it manages to happen again, then I would ally him
hmm I see. hope so.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ok, two hours left and it's a three way toss up. Shin picks ISO (#3582) tying ISO and Grape at 6. Killjoy goes Grape from ISO (#3599). Shin switches over to Grape, but more for the sake of having a Lynch and not really calling GF scum (#3642) and I have to come in and hammer Grape even though I preferred LW to both of these. Here's the final vote count:
Bur will be around shortly to put the game to night.
if we talk about scum spreading out...
there should be 1 on Last, who is probably Phoenix
and 1 on Iso.. who I'm not sure of yet (ironically, Killjoy isn't on Iso's train)
2 should be on Grapefruit's wagon.
if Shin is scum along with Killjoy, I'm not sure if he would follow his buddy's movements that closely.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Everyone who wants someone to betray/ally specifically should spell it out now. I plan on allying anyone that hasn't explicitly asked to be betrayed (ie DBS).
Ill pretty much be doing the same thing as I did the first round depending on said partner.
Might also be worthwhile to claim if you want BP, or you are willing to give BP.
I would really like BP :D, seeing as how my brother betrayed me.
idk... ur not giving me reason to town read you, even if everyone else seems to think ur town... ur passive is free anyways... so if you get down to 1 BP just let me know and Ill save you lol, that is if im still alive by then... haha
This post makes me legitimately angry. For real, I was gone for the weekend, I hadn't even read anything since I left, and you're going to attack me for that? Don't do that. Ever.
everything I say is legitimately maddening? alright. you should also reflect on yourself and consider informing others of your schedule beforehand, since anything said during the game can be a lie. I'm just playing the game as it is.
No, what makes me angry is you attacking me for OoG reasons. It shouldn't even matter in this case, but because you clearly missed it:
Quote from Phoenix »
I'm going to be V/LA til Monday
I'm not entirely certain what it means that Terry immediately moved to Last after I caught up. I still think last is the best lynch today and can sort whether Terry is bussing or not tomorrow.
@last manipulation why do u fall for it so easily?
idk what you mean, just cause you see me agree on paper, doesnt mean I actually agree overall...
I agree with terry here, I honestly if i cant gunrantee phoenix will be roleblocked I would like to see him lynched.
Phoenix already stated his ability cant be roleblocked, but Im starting to believe that the fact that he asked Bur is a lie, and that his whole role is a lie...
Again why would you believe that, its the 2nd most convienent thing he said outside his role claim. Also the 2nd time hes had information clarified by bur. Well what you write on paper is what matters the most in the game just saying.
Have you possibly considered that the truth would line up perfectly with what happened, and that it's not a matter of convenience? And please explain to me how asking the mod questions is scummy, because I'd really like to hear your reasoning for that.
Also, Shin, what are you scumreading me for, and when did you start?
If you have anything in post 5404 that you actually want me to respond to then say it specifically, but it's a jumbled mess and most of it is irrelevant or something I can't even answer.
[Phoenix said:]Actually, I kind of want a masslcaim toDay.
I'd rather not have anymore role claims, please and thank you... what even is the benefit other than just cause?
No, I literally never said that, any reason you're attributing other people's posts to me?
Quote from Last »
You and Osie seem to hide omgus votes by adding on details that literally mean nothing, honestly at least you added something new, unlike Osie who has just been scum reading me since day 1...
So we're hiding Omgus votes with actual reasoning and real suspicion of you....making them not Omgus votes?
Last, same with Shin here, if you want me to respond to specific points, post them specifically, but I'm not interested in getting buried in a quote wall war.
Osi: "I'm not scumreading you anymore" and "From this chat you could be town" are not so different that I'd call that a lie.
The funny thing, is that if Killjoy flips scum, It still wont deter me from thinking osie is scum, and if he flips town, Osie is stil scum... almost a win/win except for killjoy flips town... time to see how the votes change in the coming days...
*except for if killjoy flips town, cant say I know which one, since im not scum lol...
I don't even have to comment here.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I plan to ally tonight. If I get matched with dawning again I'll betray. If we don't lynch Last, I'd probably betray him as well.
I want to believe Killjoy is town, and Osi's attack on him feels wrong, but his lack of even a sideways glance at Jenna makes no sense.
Still think Last is a better lynch.
Honestly I think I am the best lynch also... is that weird? eyy, mafia where u at? Start this train again... you cant use me forever you know... I can even help you out lol... vote: wisp 27 hours left, if one of your buddies is really on the line, then I am your best chance of saving them... I guess we will see how this goes.
I can hear my brothers voice... "Self voting is scummy as hell," well if I am scummy, I guess i should play the part lol...
and if your confused about my edit Phoenix, its because the phrasing made it sound like I know killjoy will flip town, when in hindsight, I actually dont, was leaving it that worse, or fixing it worse? who knows at this point... I honestly want to believe killjoy is town also and I think that Osie is scum here... but the Osie train probably wont start up again, and I have this gut feeling that killjoy is actually town...
This is awful. There are so many obv-scum we're not killing. I don't even know why you guys are after KJ. If I wasn't travelling for thanksgiving, I'd be swamping this thread with angry PBPAs.
Both these wagons are complete and total garbage. If you won't do Jenna or Iso today, get Shin.
I doubt they're having an easy time since this game activity is over the top.
I do agree however the players should work together more, but your way of thinking hasnt helped either. How you expected people to just leave your claim alone, or how you just expected people to just accept the vig claim. Or how you expect people to read last based on the meta you've shown.
Dislike this bit where Shin comments that he thinks the scum aren't having an easy time.
If he's town, what's his basis for that? Is he feeling the strain of having to stay convincing while being that active? If you'd have asked me, I'd have thought that the scum were mostly having an easy time stalling us out and letting us just mill around aimlessly, but having said that, I can see how one of the more active scum posters might feel that way. But IDK that that's the kind of observation that naturally occurs to a town player.
Quote from shin »
Ok this I unerstand, but i still the possibility exists I mean ive seem scum grave diggers before.
*Frowns* Some weak role analysis shade here.
If you're going to engage in mod-gaming, you should at least say something more obnoxious and useful like "in what world are there two town roleblockers?" If you're going to go there.
Quote from shin »
Weird that you bring this up, yet were ok with me claiming in the first place. So i guess comparing your crap of a claim to my claim prob makes you feel better. I also assume since my role isnt as provable as yours, you're ok lynching me. Am I right
Few different times Shin has seemed a tad too preoccupied with defending fairly weak attacks. Minor issue only.
Quote from shin »
Nothing honestly could stop him from being mafia, I mean this role is the perfect claim to give to a scum aligned player.
Well, that's a serious exaggeration. The "perfect role" for scum?
Quote from shin »
How so? If I was desperate I would have pushed him during the entirety of day 1 I would not have started now. No its not in towns best interests its in your best interests because thats your flawed way of saying this guy must be scum he only does this when hes scum.
Where did i imply my skill level was better?
Not great conviction in the defense here. That's a tone read, not a complaint about the content, which is unremarkable.
Quote from shin »
Want me to full claim ill do it right now.
Also no i clarified I misread my own role the same as ISO I thought the (4) was X shots I didnt realize the (4) was the cost of ab to use my ability.
Hmm. This makes the claim timing far more understandable.
Quote from shin »
Meta is flawed, so no reason I would ever buy the arguement. Literally just spent an hour talking to someone about the flaws of meta gaming and we both agreed that its a screwed up way to play.
Ik my brother personality wise I know he thinks and I know why he does his actions. As scum he makes stupid stupid mistakes like fake claiming a dumb role lol. Does not mean i should read my brother as scu everytime he claims an over the top role like @DBS expects me too.
Focus at this point in time is on plentiful back and forth on meta with DBS here, little else.
Quote from shin »
Are you counter claiming her? If not then calm your ***** lol. Most people considered a townie who doesnt claim when on the verge of being lynched as game throwing. So to compare that to Jenna actions is not right.
If you think shes distracting us, then what about DBS she literally made the town run around for 5 days tring to figure out her full claim.
Here's my issue with the mentality here. He's not upset about any of Jenna's legitimate issues here - he's simply pointing to another player who he thinks has done something worse. There are reasons, as town, to not be happy with either. But the mentality here is straight deflection, from one target, to another. Particularly if DBS is town and Shin and Jenna are aligned per current theory, dislike.
Quote from shin »
I love this post from iso, i honestly trust him enough plus my own read on az to say we should just lock a lynch on him.
Undue certainty tell. And undue trust. I have no idea what Iso has done to inspire that much trust from Shin. Other than tell him what to do in scum-chat, anyways.
Quote from shin »
Guess you must be scum then
Guess? That's not town phrasing.
Quote from shin »
And here you go being scummy again lol, was waiting for a post like this. Your literally turning all the fault onto GF when you literally were one of the people that pushed for his lynch harder? This what happens when people rely on claims. What do you think would have happened if he claimed? Did you just want to keep pushing people till a mass claim happened you make no sense.
Also Gf saw no reason to claim don't make it look like thats some kind of playstyle difference, you could have chosen to not claim guess what though u would have prob been lynched as well.
Yet again putting yourself as something other than town is scummy. How did it help them get cop? Find in the thread where DV soft claimed cop? Or even remotely bread crumbed it, then you can tell me that his death was on us.
Btw i don't even remotely believe you were betrayed.
Vote: Dawn
Believe 2 of the scum are you and azreal.
Also since when do u town shame?
Shin laying into DBS hard, after she complains about GF's refusal to claim.
I have a real hard time grokking this as a town mentality, also. I know my own reaction, 100%, after seeing GF flip was a mental facepalm exactly in line with DBS' sentiments. He should have claimed.
Nothing wrong with DBS's reaction here, she's just a convenient target for the scum, same as me, because you can point a finger at her easily for her role in the CFD. And then just hope everyone ignores all her town tells. Unified scum strategy here, with Iso.
Quote from Shin »
@bold thats pure wine if I say so myself
-So you dont think we should be looking at you or DBS for basically leading the train on gf?
-This theory of yourselfs is super hypothetical, also how do you know LW is a mislycnh?
There's wine, and then there's common sense. If you have a high-value target as scum like a town-aligned iso, you take it. I didn't take it. That means something. Whatever credit you could expect to get from that move, is outweighed by taking Iso off the table if he were actually town. But given his total absence of concern with scum-hunting...
And then he pushes the lynch on DBS again, too. Pure chain mislynch mining move.
I've got 22 more pages of this to go, if you guys want me to. But my mind is pretty well made up.
Summary:
-Shin makes a comment in line with sympathizing how difficult this game must be for the scum who are posting actively
-Shin points out that scum gravediggers exist, in an effort to undermine Phoenix, then doubles down and calls it the "perfect" role for scum
-Shin demonstrates pattern of being overly preoccupied with defending weak attacks
-Shin glosses over Jenna's issues in order to point out how DBS is supposed to be even worse - without being unhappy or suspicious with Jenna's similarly problematic and diffcult to read behaviors. Implicates, if DBS town and Shin/Jenna are aligned,as theorized.
-Shin states that he completely trusts Iso, enough to lock a lynch on Az. Where is this level of confidence coming from?? What has Iso done to merit that?
-Following D1, Shin attacks DBS early, trying to pin the blame on her for the GF lynch. Reads heavily of scum trying to build off the prior days events to chain mislynches of town. His reaction to DBS complaining about GF's (awful) refusal to claim is completely out of keeping with the sickening feeling of frustration I think most townies felt upon seeing that role revealed, where there really was no reason for him not to claim it. Iso tried to do exactly the same to me, at the same time period.
There's more, but I'm out of time for now. Kill this guy - he's NOT town, and it has major implications for Iso and Jenna.
There is no world where you, the person most of the game is scum reading will be able to save yourself by pointing fingers at another person.
-It is the perfect role for scum, a role where town are hindered when its lynched seems kind of nice to have as scum. Kinda like when mafia hit a mayor causeing the entire day to be skipped.
-Defense where? I don't need to defend myself.
-Nothing wrong with Jenna, do you think shes scum? Cause both behaviorly and role wise I believe she is town. Her way of trying to catch phoenix proves it.
-WHy does it matter if I trust ISO, why do you care so much about me opinion on ISO? Do you think we're S V S cause your already wrong there since ii am town.
-Did she not pretty much lead the lynch on GF she was one of the first maybe 2nd to point out the scumminesss of GF. Also scum are clearly trying to create mislynches hello? Have you seen the game state?
Ill gladly die, then ill flip town if DBS is town she can just shoot you that is if you even survive being lyched on day 3.
This is awful. There are so many obv-scum we're not killing. I don't even know why you guys are after KJ. If I wasn't travelling for thanksgiving, I'd be swamping this thread with angry PBPAs.
Both these wagons are complete and total garbage. If you won't do Jenna or Iso today, get Shin.
I doubt they're having an easy time since this game activity is over the top.
I do agree however the players should work together more, but your way of thinking hasnt helped either. How you expected people to just leave your claim alone, or how you just expected people to just accept the vig claim. Or how you expect people to read last based on the meta you've shown.
Dislike this bit where Shin comments that he thinks the scum aren't having an easy time.
If he's town, what's his basis for that? Is he feeling the strain of having to stay convincing while being that active? If you'd have asked me, I'd have thought that the scum were mostly having an easy time stalling us out and letting us just mill around aimlessly, but having said that, I can see how one of the more active scum posters might feel that way. But IDK that that's the kind of observation that naturally occurs to a town player.
Quote from shin »
Ok this I unerstand, but i still the possibility exists I mean ive seem scum grave diggers before.
*Frowns* Some weak role analysis shade here.
If you're going to engage in mod-gaming, you should at least say something more obnoxious and useful like "in what world are there two town roleblockers?" If you're going to go there.
Quote from shin »
Weird that you bring this up, yet were ok with me claiming in the first place. So i guess comparing your crap of a claim to my claim prob makes you feel better. I also assume since my role isnt as provable as yours, you're ok lynching me. Am I right
Few different times Shin has seemed a tad too preoccupied with defending fairly weak attacks. Minor issue only.
Quote from shin »
Nothing honestly could stop him from being mafia, I mean this role is the perfect claim to give to a scum aligned player.
Well, that's a serious exaggeration. The "perfect role" for scum?
Quote from shin »
How so? If I was desperate I would have pushed him during the entirety of day 1 I would not have started now. No its not in towns best interests its in your best interests because thats your flawed way of saying this guy must be scum he only does this when hes scum.
Where did i imply my skill level was better?
Not great conviction in the defense here. That's a tone read, not a complaint about the content, which is unremarkable.
Quote from shin »
Want me to full claim ill do it right now.
Also no i clarified I misread my own role the same as ISO I thought the (4) was X shots I didnt realize the (4) was the cost of ab to use my ability.
Hmm. This makes the claim timing far more understandable.
Quote from shin »
Meta is flawed, so no reason I would ever buy the arguement. Literally just spent an hour talking to someone about the flaws of meta gaming and we both agreed that its a screwed up way to play.
Ik my brother personality wise I know he thinks and I know why he does his actions. As scum he makes stupid stupid mistakes like fake claiming a dumb role lol. Does not mean i should read my brother as scu everytime he claims an over the top role like @DBS expects me too.
Focus at this point in time is on plentiful back and forth on meta with DBS here, little else.
Quote from shin »
Are you counter claiming her? If not then calm your ***** lol. Most people considered a townie who doesnt claim when on the verge of being lynched as game throwing. So to compare that to Jenna actions is not right.
If you think shes distracting us, then what about DBS she literally made the town run around for 5 days tring to figure out her full claim.
Here's my issue with the mentality here. He's not upset about any of Jenna's legitimate issues here - he's simply pointing to another player who he thinks has done something worse. There are reasons, as town, to not be happy with either. But the mentality here is straight deflection, from one target, to another. Particularly if DBS is town and Shin and Jenna are aligned per current theory, dislike.
Quote from shin »
I love this post from iso, i honestly trust him enough plus my own read on az to say we should just lock a lynch on him.
Undue certainty tell. And undue trust. I have no idea what Iso has done to inspire that much trust from Shin. Other than tell him what to do in scum-chat, anyways.
Quote from shin »
Guess you must be scum then
Guess? That's not town phrasing.
Quote from shin »
And here you go being scummy again lol, was waiting for a post like this. Your literally turning all the fault onto GF when you literally were one of the people that pushed for his lynch harder? This what happens when people rely on claims. What do you think would have happened if he claimed? Did you just want to keep pushing people till a mass claim happened you make no sense.
Also Gf saw no reason to claim don't make it look like thats some kind of playstyle difference, you could have chosen to not claim guess what though u would have prob been lynched as well.
Yet again putting yourself as something other than town is scummy. How did it help them get cop? Find in the thread where DV soft claimed cop? Or even remotely bread crumbed it, then you can tell me that his death was on us.
Btw i don't even remotely believe you were betrayed.
Vote: Dawn
Believe 2 of the scum are you and azreal.
Also since when do u town shame?
Shin laying into DBS hard, after she complains about GF's refusal to claim.
I have a real hard time grokking this as a town mentality, also. I know my own reaction, 100%, after seeing GF flip was a mental facepalm exactly in line with DBS' sentiments. He should have claimed.
Nothing wrong with DBS's reaction here, she's just a convenient target for the scum, same as me, because you can point a finger at her easily for her role in the CFD. And then just hope everyone ignores all her town tells. Unified scum strategy here, with Iso.
Quote from Shin »
@bold thats pure wine if I say so myself
-So you dont think we should be looking at you or DBS for basically leading the train on gf?
-This theory of yourselfs is super hypothetical, also how do you know LW is a mislycnh?
There's wine, and then there's common sense. If you have a high-value target as scum like a town-aligned iso, you take it. I didn't take it. That means something. Whatever credit you could expect to get from that move, is outweighed by taking Iso off the table if he were actually town. But given his total absence of concern with scum-hunting...
And then he pushes the lynch on DBS again, too. Pure chain mislynch mining move.
I've got 22 more pages of this to go, if you guys want me to. But my mind is pretty well made up.
Summary:
-Shin makes a comment in line with sympathizing how difficult this game must be for the scum who are posting actively
-Shin points out that scum gravediggers exist, in an effort to undermine Phoenix, then doubles down and calls it the "perfect" role for scum
-Shin demonstrates pattern of being overly preoccupied with defending weak attacks
-Shin glosses over Jenna's issues in order to point out how DBS is supposed to be even worse - without being unhappy or suspicious with Jenna's similarly problematic and diffcult to read behaviors. Implicates, if DBS town and Shin/Jenna are aligned,as theorized.
-Shin states that he completely trusts Iso, enough to lock a lynch on Az. Where is this level of confidence coming from?? What has Iso done to merit that?
-Following D1, Shin attacks DBS early, trying to pin the blame on her for the GF lynch. Reads heavily of scum trying to build off the prior days events to chain mislynches of town. His reaction to DBS complaining about GF's (awful) refusal to claim is completely out of keeping with the sickening feeling of frustration I think most townies felt upon seeing that role revealed, where there really was no reason for him not to claim it. Iso tried to do exactly the same to me, at the same time period.
There's more, but I'm out of time for now. Kill this guy - he's NOT town, and it has major implications for Iso and Jenna.
There is no world where you, the person most of the game is scum reading will be able to save yourself by pointing fingers at another person.
-It is the perfect role for scum, a role where town are hindered when its lynched seems kind of nice to have as scum. Kinda like when mafia hit a mayor causeing the entire day to be skipped.
-Defense where? I don't need to defend myself.
-Nothing wrong with Jenna, do you think shes scum? Cause both behaviorly and role wise I believe she is town. Her way of trying to catch phoenix proves it.
-WHy does it matter if I trust ISO, why do you care so much about me opinion on ISO? Do you think we're S V S cause your already wrong there since ii am town.
-Did she not pretty much lead the lynch on GF she was one of the first maybe 2nd to point out the scumminesss of GF. Also scum are clearly trying to create mislynches hello? Have you seen the game state?
Ill gladly die, then ill flip town if DBS is town she can just shoot you that is if you even survive being lyched on day 3.
woah where did this post come from, I like it lol... this is the town!shin that I am used to seeing...
@phoenix Jumbled mess or not I shouldnt have to clarify it for you, don't just say hi can't read time to throw that post in the garbage.
-Of course I considered that, cause in a world where your town jenna is town, but in a world where your scum the only thing that makes sense is jenna is scum as well. Regardless that ability of your is to convinent.
If i could get you lynched i would.
I post big quotes if your not going to put in the effort to reply to those giant posts where mind you I am forced to reply like that since multiple posts beyond 3 is apparently spamming then why should I do out of my way to clarify what i wanted you to respond to.
I mean its clearly not important enough to you if your ok just ignoring due to the effort it requires to properly quote something.
it seems as no matter what happens during the hours of the day phases, or how long they are, the most fruit bears towards the end, because its only naturally everyone will fight their lynch regardless of who they are, the only difference is that mafia is trying to save their buddy w/o being noticed, so which will it be today? Mafia or a town lynch again, I wonder....
@phoenix: our votes on last were simultaneously placed not sequentially. It took a while to type and when I posted you had yours posted too. I'm not sure what to make of that either.
meh Ive been feeling like people have been ignoring my stuff also, once I flip, maybe they will change their tune about me...
i can all but assure you no one will read your posts after you die unless youre scum
lets just lynch scum today bro
god if tom is scum, he does a very good job getting me to listen to him... its surprisingly scary... but I just dont think that is the case, regardless of what I said early on in this day phase
This is awful. There are so many obv-scum we're not killing. I don't even know why you guys are after KJ. If I wasn't travelling for thanksgiving, I'd be swamping this thread with angry PBPAs.
Both these wagons are complete and total garbage. If you won't do Jenna or Iso today, get Shin.
I doubt they're having an easy time since this game activity is over the top.
I do agree however the players should work together more, but your way of thinking hasnt helped either. How you expected people to just leave your claim alone, or how you just expected people to just accept the vig claim. Or how you expect people to read last based on the meta you've shown.
Dislike this bit where Shin comments that he thinks the scum aren't having an easy time.
If he's town, what's his basis for that? Is he feeling the strain of having to stay convincing while being that active? If you'd have asked me, I'd have thought that the scum were mostly having an easy time stalling us out and letting us just mill around aimlessly, but having said that, I can see how one of the more active scum posters might feel that way. But IDK that that's the kind of observation that naturally occurs to a town player.
Quote from shin »
Ok this I unerstand, but i still the possibility exists I mean ive seem scum grave diggers before.
*Frowns* Some weak role analysis shade here.
If you're going to engage in mod-gaming, you should at least say something more obnoxious and useful like "in what world are there two town roleblockers?" If you're going to go there.
Quote from shin »
Weird that you bring this up, yet were ok with me claiming in the first place. So i guess comparing your crap of a claim to my claim prob makes you feel better. I also assume since my role isnt as provable as yours, you're ok lynching me. Am I right
Few different times Shin has seemed a tad too preoccupied with defending fairly weak attacks. Minor issue only.
Quote from shin »
Nothing honestly could stop him from being mafia, I mean this role is the perfect claim to give to a scum aligned player.
Well, that's a serious exaggeration. The "perfect role" for scum?
Quote from shin »
How so? If I was desperate I would have pushed him during the entirety of day 1 I would not have started now. No its not in towns best interests its in your best interests because thats your flawed way of saying this guy must be scum he only does this when hes scum.
Where did i imply my skill level was better?
Not great conviction in the defense here. That's a tone read, not a complaint about the content, which is unremarkable.
Quote from shin »
Want me to full claim ill do it right now.
Also no i clarified I misread my own role the same as ISO I thought the (4) was X shots I didnt realize the (4) was the cost of ab to use my ability.
Hmm. This makes the claim timing far more understandable.
Quote from shin »
Meta is flawed, so no reason I would ever buy the arguement. Literally just spent an hour talking to someone about the flaws of meta gaming and we both agreed that its a screwed up way to play.
Ik my brother personality wise I know he thinks and I know why he does his actions. As scum he makes stupid stupid mistakes like fake claiming a dumb role lol. Does not mean i should read my brother as scu everytime he claims an over the top role like @DBS expects me too.
Focus at this point in time is on plentiful back and forth on meta with DBS here, little else.
Quote from shin »
Are you counter claiming her? If not then calm your ***** lol. Most people considered a townie who doesnt claim when on the verge of being lynched as game throwing. So to compare that to Jenna actions is not right.
If you think shes distracting us, then what about DBS she literally made the town run around for 5 days tring to figure out her full claim.
Here's my issue with the mentality here. He's not upset about any of Jenna's legitimate issues here - he's simply pointing to another player who he thinks has done something worse. There are reasons, as town, to not be happy with either. But the mentality here is straight deflection, from one target, to another. Particularly if DBS is town and Shin and Jenna are aligned per current theory, dislike.
Quote from shin »
I love this post from iso, i honestly trust him enough plus my own read on az to say we should just lock a lynch on him.
Undue certainty tell. And undue trust. I have no idea what Iso has done to inspire that much trust from Shin. Other than tell him what to do in scum-chat, anyways.
Quote from shin »
Guess you must be scum then
Guess? That's not town phrasing.
Quote from shin »
And here you go being scummy again lol, was waiting for a post like this. Your literally turning all the fault onto GF when you literally were one of the people that pushed for his lynch harder? This what happens when people rely on claims. What do you think would have happened if he claimed? Did you just want to keep pushing people till a mass claim happened you make no sense.
Also Gf saw no reason to claim don't make it look like thats some kind of playstyle difference, you could have chosen to not claim guess what though u would have prob been lynched as well.
Yet again putting yourself as something other than town is scummy. How did it help them get cop? Find in the thread where DV soft claimed cop? Or even remotely bread crumbed it, then you can tell me that his death was on us.
Btw i don't even remotely believe you were betrayed.
Vote: Dawn
Believe 2 of the scum are you and azreal.
Also since when do u town shame?
Shin laying into DBS hard, after she complains about GF's refusal to claim.
I have a real hard time grokking this as a town mentality, also. I know my own reaction, 100%, after seeing GF flip was a mental facepalm exactly in line with DBS' sentiments. He should have claimed.
Nothing wrong with DBS's reaction here, she's just a convenient target for the scum, same as me, because you can point a finger at her easily for her role in the CFD. And then just hope everyone ignores all her town tells. Unified scum strategy here, with Iso.
Quote from Shin »
@bold thats pure wine if I say so myself
-So you dont think we should be looking at you or DBS for basically leading the train on gf?
-This theory of yourselfs is super hypothetical, also how do you know LW is a mislycnh?
There's wine, and then there's common sense. If you have a high-value target as scum like a town-aligned iso, you take it. I didn't take it. That means something. Whatever credit you could expect to get from that move, is outweighed by taking Iso off the table if he were actually town. But given his total absence of concern with scum-hunting...
And then he pushes the lynch on DBS again, too. Pure chain mislynch mining move.
I've got 22 more pages of this to go, if you guys want me to. But my mind is pretty well made up.
Summary:
-Shin makes a comment in line with sympathizing how difficult this game must be for the scum who are posting actively
-Shin points out that scum gravediggers exist, in an effort to undermine Phoenix, then doubles down and calls it the "perfect" role for scum
-Shin demonstrates pattern of being overly preoccupied with defending weak attacks
-Shin glosses over Jenna's issues in order to point out how DBS is supposed to be even worse - without being unhappy or suspicious with Jenna's similarly problematic and diffcult to read behaviors. Implicates, if DBS town and Shin/Jenna are aligned,as theorized.
-Shin states that he completely trusts Iso, enough to lock a lynch on Az. Where is this level of confidence coming from?? What has Iso done to merit that?
-Following D1, Shin attacks DBS early, trying to pin the blame on her for the GF lynch. Reads heavily of scum trying to build off the prior days events to chain mislynches of town. His reaction to DBS complaining about GF's (awful) refusal to claim is completely out of keeping with the sickening feeling of frustration I think most townies felt upon seeing that role revealed, where there really was no reason for him not to claim it. Iso tried to do exactly the same to me, at the same time period.
There's more, but I'm out of time for now. Kill this guy - he's NOT town, and it has major implications for Iso and Jenna.
There is no world where you, the person most of the game is scum reading will be able to save yourself by pointing fingers at another person.
-It is the perfect role for scum, a role where town are hindered when its lynched seems kind of nice to have as scum. Kinda like when mafia hit a mayor causeing the entire day to be skipped.
-Defense where? I don't need to defend myself.
-Nothing wrong with Jenna, do you think shes scum? Cause both behaviorly and role wise I believe she is town. Her way of trying to catch phoenix proves it.
-WHy does it matter if I trust ISO, why do you care so much about me opinion on ISO? Do you think we're S V S cause your already wrong there since ii am town.
-Did she not pretty much lead the lynch on GF she was one of the first maybe 2nd to point out the scumminesss of GF. Also scum are clearly trying to create mislynches hello? Have you seen the game state?
Ill gladly die, then ill flip town if DBS is town she can just shoot you that is if you even survive being lyched on day 3.
woah where did this post come from, I like it lol... this is the town!shin that I am used to seeing...
I actually agree... damn he's such a troll. "if DBS is town she can just shoot you" where did this come from??
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I still remember the days I prayed for the things I have now.
Nah, it's fine. Tom is still scary, but I'm still at a townlean at the moment.
Why is Tom scary? And what do you make of his stance on me?
Tom is a concern because he's very good at what he does, especially in the early game.
As for his stance on you, what about it? I just looked at his past 4 pages of posts and nothing jumped out at me as particularly good or bad about what he was saying about you.
If you mean his comment to Killjoy in #5090, I find that not far from what I was noting, but I was more inclined to believe that you are still just town and that your claim was legitimate.
Like, past-Osie (to steal Jenna's notation for rereads versus current talk) is on post #4042 and there's 10 people in this game (LnGrrrR, Terry, Phoenix, Tom, Iso, Axel, Shinichi, Kabazame, Jenna, Killjoy) who have expressed disliking LW so far in D2, with you and Az being the only people who have expressed liking him.
Make that 12 people counting myself and Cythare.
D_V and GF are dead, Last himself obviously is in the liking category. So why shouldn't some selection of the 12 of us just lynch Last and call it a day? Why are you so convinced that isn't the play?
I really don't like this post. Have you paid attention to whether anyone has changed their mind in this grouping? FYI, I did;
I hadn't caught up on this analysis, but I hadn't seen a hard turnaround from anyone to a townlean or townread on Last, just soft ones, as far as I could recall.
Holy crap really? "His claim has some holes" suddenly becomes "he claimed a scum role"?! I just don't buy it.
This is a serious concern. Terry's case seems a lot less strong than his passionate focus towards you. Like, if he was actually pointing distinct points out, analyzing, and questioning you, that would be one thing… But he's arguably not doing a lot of that, and that's concerning, leading me to move him down in my reads significantly.
you're conveniently back when everyone starts talking about you -.-
well, time to start. what do you think of your role so far?
[b]Vote: Phoenix-Fire[/b]
This post makes me legitimately angry. For real, I was gone for the weekend, I hadn't even read anything since I left, and you're going to attack me for that? Don't do that. Ever.
At times, I've gotten the impression that OoG is somehow considered legitimate as a reasoning for a scumread by several players, especially Dawning and Last. Maybe it's a MAL thing? Though that doesn't explain Killjoy's duplicity.
Null means (even by your definition) that you are not currently scumreading someone (or townreading them) without speaking to what their alignment COULD be. Obviously null is not saying you think they have no alignment. But to say that Null means that you're still scumreading me is ludicrous.
That's what Lean Scum/Town is for.
I only had two people in scumreads: Last and Az. In that context, Null is effectively a scumlean through PoE.
But while we're being pedantic, we could go back to your post where you declare a roughly equal read of scum or town on me, with stronger town points and weaker scum points, and then conclude that I'm a very strong scumread. And handwaving a tunnel as something you did in Revolution is bull since it's very different. This early-game very hard push of a mislynch on me, while hedging just enough to give yourself leeway ("I always scumread Osi," "I always tunnel") is super scummy. (And then to have the temerity to turn around and suggest that [b]I[/b] am scummy for posting without absolute certainty…) Your push on me is dishonest, your role is dishonest, your revisionist history is dishonest… You are dishonest scum, you are caught, and you and your buddies can eat lynches.
Even if we argue that the deadline was 2:39 AM EST, which was, admittedly, ambiguous, that still doesn't address the fact that I got confirmation back from Bur a couple hours prior. That's also still hours before the chat was closed.
things of note:
- scumteam having AB limitations while town have BP costs/thresholds sounds plausible.
- Osie/Shin have abilities that are limited by AB.
- not sure with Phoenix. passing of ability sounds more like a scum-to-town reward, not a town-to-scum. lack of BP limitations matches above theory.
- Shin has Osie in his scumreads but sides him the most. a contradiction.
- I stand by gamestate reads, they're the least likely to change or fail. at this point, only gamestate reads (to save my sanity).
[b]readlist[/b]
[b]town:[/b]
Last - D1 tie (gamestate read). simple enough to sort out quickly.
Terry - D1 tie (gamestate read). calculations that are absolutely town-motivated.
Killjoy - attention never broke down, goes along with D1 tie (gamestate read). actively thinks.
Iso - attention on Iso/Azrael clears (dicey/late gamestate read). BP Taker is good info. meta is questionable but nothing outside of less aggression.
Azrael - attention on Iso/Azrael clears (dicey/late gamestate read). transparent enough. doubt his scumgame can be this daring, given the 'crazy uncle' playstyle.
[b]not sure (in order):[/b]
LnG - town-flaming was townish (reaction read). behavior lines up with claim.
Jenna - gambit looks likely to come from town.
Tom - natural train of thought.
Kaba - good points and helpful posts.
Axel - recent posts are helpful.
Cyth - nothing off so far.
[b]scum:[/b]
Shin - roleblocker counterclaim. mudflings. easy to figure out.
Osie - questions reads on him, more than look into other players. fluff. safe to say Osie/Killjoy aren't aligned.
Phoenix - reactive. frustration feels more defensive than productive.
That is impressively opposite of my list... Wow. Not sure what to think about that.
Your townreads on Last and Terry look like a bad town tunnel that I guess you've had all game.
You know there's most likely at least 4 scum still alive… Your not sure list suggests that every single one of those people are town. So you're just scumreading yourself, I guess?
As for the setup gaming...
Doesn't have to even be wrong for me to go uggh.
…
"Too much focus?" What kind of off-the-wall argument is that?
The funny thing, is that if Killjoy flips scum, It still wont deter me from thinking osie is scum, and if he flips town, Osie is stil scum... almost a win/win except for killjoy flips town... time to see how the votes change in the coming days...
Sounds like you're overly rigid in your reads because you know something that other people don't know.
The Order of Operations would seem to imply you can suicide. It checks abilities first, then AB pairings. Let's say I'm at 3, and I use my ability, taking me to 1, and then I get betrayed. How would Bur retroactively not have my ability occur?
@Osi, disagree. Let's put it this way... if you knew you were likely to be the mislynch, and you had the numbers to spare and you thought that your flip would cement your reads to people, then I don't think a suicide is playing against your wincon. Town wincon is to win the game, no matter what, not to survive until endgame. Just like scum who decide to bus or give themselves up for gambits; they still count as winners if their team wins at the end of the game.
if you knew you were likely to be the mislynch, and you had the numbers to spare and you thought that your flip would cement your reads to people
I get where the thought process comes from, but I don't think it's really a thing. It kinda feels like the same vein as AtE... Like, "I can't convince you that I'm right, so I'm going to frustratedly remove myself from the game and maybe you'll be convinced then."
if you knew you were likely to be the mislynch, and you had the numbers to spare and you thought that your flip would cement your reads to people
I get where the thought process comes from, but I don't think it's really a thing. It kinda feels like the same vein as AtE... Like, "I can't convince you that I'm right, so I'm going to frustratedly remove myself from the game and maybe you'll be convinced then."
I mean... if he's town and he gets himself killed, you should be convinced.
The chance of LW flipping scum is about .1% at this point. Don't see how you guys can keep writing off all these town tells off as appeal to emotion and continue merrily on your way. He's been mirroring my own emotional progression in lockstep, though I'm far less emotive about it than he is. He should be a much easier town clear than me, the easiest in this game. What gives? Do you just skim right past every time you see one of those because they *might* be fake?
The chance of LW flipping scum is about .1% at this point. Don't see how you guys can keep writing off all these town tells off as appeal to emotion and continue merrily on your way. He's been mirroring my own emotional progression in lockstep, though I'm far less emotive about it than he is. He should be a much easier town clear than me, the easiest in this game. What gives? Do you just skim right past every time you see one of those because they *might* be fake?
You literally just mentioned me appealing to emotion like 6-7 posts ago lol, so your one to talk.
Honestly Az, the only way I could be at .1% of flipping scum is if ur scum and ur trying to pocket me hard, don't discredit what others are saying with bs reasons, and again ur case on shin was terrble... U are still a scum lean for me... If u didn't claim doctor my vote would still be on you, but that claim won't save u from other people today, or my wrath tmr
Honestly Az, the only way I could be at .1% of flipping scum is if ur scum and ur trying to pocket me hard, don't discredit what others are saying with bs reasons, and again ur case on shin was terrble... U are still a scum lean for me... If u didn't claim doctor my vote would still be on you, but that claim won't save u from other people today, or my wrath tmr
You're not the kind of player who can fake all this as scum. That's not BS, that is just twelve years of playing this game.
Pocket you? Why would I want you as an ally, LW? Most of the thread hates your playstyle and wants to mislynch you. You are the last person any scum would want to curry favor with, it wouldn't do me a bit of good.
So many people in this game have convinced themselves to just parrot these ideas, and not to think critically about what is going on in this game.
Terry thinks my suggesting suicide as an option is a scum tell. You think I want your help. Jenna says something I've been doing for over a decade is suspicious. Iso, when questioned about his basid for saying I do it more as scum, disappears from the thread and never justifies his comment.
How about I think you are a mislynch waiting to happen, LA. What if I am trying to stop that? What if, like you, I'm so pessimistic about this town's ability to read players correctly that I am planning to kill myself rather than let them mislynch a doctor who hasn't been counter claimed?
No, LW, I'm not trying to pocket you. And no, I'm not going to stop telling the town they are making a mistake by running you up, no matter how much you hate it. Because at the end of this game, I don't care about the mistakes the rest of the town made nearly as much as I care that I did everything in my power to fight for the win. Even if that means falling on my own sword.
Tom town Turkey
You are a talking turkey. Undoubtedly, you get a bit paranoid this time of year, especially locked in a kill room with other people. Normally, you are charismatic and quite approachable, but in this situation people read your twitchiness and constant gobbling as a sign of nervousness and probably guilt. You know there's ways to get people to trust you, but haven't quite put your finger on it.
You have the following abilities:
Passive Abilities: Tryptophan: If you are targeted, the player targeting you can't use BP during the next night. Winner winner Turkey Dinner: If you die, each other player gets 3 BP, but can't use any abilities the next night.
Active Abilities: Induce Hunger (1): Target a player. If they were to target tonight, you will be their tare instead.
One of my problems with killjoy was not actually reading jenna's claim and it's, like, way worse if he's a watcher...
Like, just no.
Vote stays.
wanted to put this here so I could review it when I get a chance lol
And that is a ton of claimed abilities. Still think there are more obvious behavioral scum, but as of this evening I'm sensing more in the way of wishful thinking that I didn't read enough of it's history and the town might be right in spite of certain of the just plain terrible arguments against him.
I don't know that we want to give me any BP. As is, we can effectively suicide me on demand by blowing my minus and betraying me, giving the town a spare vig shot. If we need to do that prior to entering lylo, it helps to have me at exactly 3 or 1. Unless we can use abilities to kill ourselves, too? Then we could theoretically eke an extra doc protect out of me. But I'm skeptical Shin will let me do any good with it.
Anyways, if you guys do decide you can't read me correctly, suicide is an option.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Bur question time lol
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
1 - defending himself/mildly omgusing terry
2 - "i did not" in response to jenna directly asking him if he targeted dv
3 - a clarification of 1
4 - doubtcasting townreads of whisper
5 - explaining why hes not posting
6 - answers a question from lngrr about who he would shoot. cyth/osi/az/iso
7 - a clarifaction on 6
only allusion to jenna's claim is the "i did not"
so if kj is town watcher, he sees someone claim another watch. after just seeing a cop flip. and doesnt comment at all?
i mean i guess that makes sense from a "just letting it play out" perspective
but being a watcher and not actually reading the claim of the person that you think is claiming watcher?
and voting with her?
and the explanation when phoenix asked about the vote:
you guessed the wrong one?
she claimed watcher directly. it was a major topic of conversation. and hes supposed have a watch shot too?
like, earlier i said townkilljoy would carefully read the claim post before voting. watchertownkilljoy even moreso.
so what im saying is
boom bye scum
might be better for you to Ally with townreads who will choose Betray...giving them the extra BP they need (except me ofc). I'm sure you have the BP to spare.
my flip will clarify lots of things, which is why - "if I'm lucky to be NK'd" - I don't think I will be NK'd. you should keep the save for Terry. I'll try to roleblock a nightkill. we also need to consider the BP Taker, who could disable you as much as the Betray can. I guess if your BP was stolen via ability, you will be unable to use your protect if it'll lead to suicide.... I hope we lynch Shin, because it sounds bad if we ever get paired up with him. I can totally see the villainous handshake in AB limitations lol.
Be grateful, always."
But nice of you to caustically use even that proposal as a supposed scum tell. You certainly appear to be calmly, judiciously, and objectively using critical thinking to evaluate the game state in a conpletely pro town manner.
Be grateful, always."
What I was saying is, I dont think we will get paired up again, maybe we will? I honestly dont know if the person gets removed from your possible pile, or if they still have equal chance of being paired with you again... But if it manages to happen again, then I would ally him
Be grateful, always."
I agree with everything Tom said.
if we talk about scum spreading out...
there should be 1 on Last, who is probably Phoenix
and 1 on Iso.. who I'm not sure of yet (ironically, Killjoy isn't on Iso's train)
2 should be on Grapefruit's wagon.
if Shin is scum along with Killjoy, I'm not sure if he would follow his buddy's movements that closely.
Be grateful, always."
Ill pretty much be doing the same thing as I did the first round depending on said partner.
I would really like BP :D, seeing as how my brother betrayed me.
I'm not entirely certain what it means that Terry immediately moved to Last after I caught up. I still think last is the best lynch today and can sort whether Terry is bussing or not tomorrow.Have you possibly considered that the truth would line up perfectly with what happened, and that it's not a matter of convenience? And please explain to me how asking the mod questions is scummy, because I'd really like to hear your reasoning for that.
Also, Shin, what are you scumreading me for, and when did you start?
If you have anything in post 5404 that you actually want me to respond to then say it specifically, but it's a jumbled mess and most of it is irrelevant or something I can't even answer.No, I literally never said that, any reason you're attributing other people's posts to me?So we're hiding Omgus votes with actual reasoning and real suspicion of you....making them not Omgus votes?
Last, same with Shin here, if you want me to respond to specific points, post them specifically, but I'm not interested in getting buried in a quote wall war.
Osi: "I'm not scumreading you anymore" and "From this chat you could be town" are not so different that I'd call that a lie.Shade and bad mod gaming. This is not a townie mentality.I don't even have to comment here.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I plan to ally tonight. If I get matched with dawning again I'll betray. If we don't lynch Last, I'd probably betray him as well.
I want to believe Killjoy is town, and Osi's attack on him feels wrong, but his lack of even a sideways glance at Jenna makes no sense.
Still think Last is a better lynch.
I can hear my brothers voice... "Self voting is scummy as hell," well if I am scummy, I guess i should play the part lol...
and if your confused about my edit Phoenix, its because the phrasing made it sound like I know killjoy will flip town, when in hindsight, I actually dont, was leaving it that worse, or fixing it worse? who knows at this point... I honestly want to believe killjoy is town also and I think that Osie is scum here... but the Osie train probably wont start up again, and I have this gut feeling that killjoy is actually town...
lets see how this goes
There is no world where you, the person most of the game is scum reading will be able to save yourself by pointing fingers at another person.
-It is the perfect role for scum, a role where town are hindered when its lynched seems kind of nice to have as scum. Kinda like when mafia hit a mayor causeing the entire day to be skipped.
-Defense where? I don't need to defend myself.
-Nothing wrong with Jenna, do you think shes scum? Cause both behaviorly and role wise I believe she is town. Her way of trying to catch phoenix proves it.
-WHy does it matter if I trust ISO, why do you care so much about me opinion on ISO? Do you think we're S V S cause your already wrong there since ii am town.
-Did she not pretty much lead the lynch on GF she was one of the first maybe 2nd to point out the scumminesss of GF. Also scum are clearly trying to create mislynches hello? Have you seen the game state?
Ill gladly die, then ill flip town if DBS is town she can just shoot you that is if you even survive being lyched on day 3.
-Of course I considered that, cause in a world where your town jenna is town, but in a world where your scum the only thing that makes sense is jenna is scum as well. Regardless that ability of your is to convinent.
If i could get you lynched i would.
I post big quotes if your not going to put in the effort to reply to those giant posts where mind you I am forced to reply like that since multiple posts beyond 3 is apparently spamming then why should I do out of my way to clarify what i wanted you to respond to.
I mean its clearly not important enough to you if your ok just ignoring due to the effort it requires to properly quote something.
lets just lynch scum today bro
I actually agree... damn he's such a troll. "if DBS is town she can just shoot you" where did this come from??
Be grateful, always."
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Tom is a concern because he's very good at what he does, especially in the early game.
As for his stance on you, what about it? I just looked at his past 4 pages of posts and nothing jumped out at me as particularly good or bad about what he was saying about you.
If you mean his comment to Killjoy in #5090, I find that not far from what I was noting, but I was more inclined to believe that you are still just town and that your claim was legitimate.
I hadn't caught up on this analysis, but I hadn't seen a hard turnaround from anyone to a townlean or townread on Last, just soft ones, as far as I could recall.
At the time, because out of the two scummiest-looking players (Last, Az) he seemed to be the most likely to actually eat a lynch.
At the moment, Killjoy is my preferred lynch target, although Last and Az are both still major concerns.
See #5428's response to Last's question #2 to Iso.
This is a serious concern. Terry's case seems a lot less strong than his passionate focus towards you. Like, if he was actually pointing distinct points out, analyzing, and questioning you, that would be one thing… But he's arguably not doing a lot of that, and that's concerning, leading me to move him down in my reads significantly.
At times, I've gotten the impression that OoG is somehow considered legitimate as a reasoning for a scumread by several players, especially Dawning and Last. Maybe it's a MAL thing? Though that doesn't explain Killjoy's duplicity.
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I only had two people in scumreads: Last and Az. In that context, Null is effectively a scumlean through PoE.
But while we're being pedantic, we could go back to your post where you declare a roughly equal read of scum or town on me, with stronger town points and weaker scum points, and then conclude that I'm a very strong scumread. And handwaving a tunnel as something you did in Revolution is bull since it's very different. This early-game very hard push of a mislynch on me, while hedging just enough to give yourself leeway ("I always scumread Osi," "I always tunnel") is super scummy. (And then to have the temerity to turn around and suggest that [b]I[/b] am scummy for posting without absolute certainty…) Your push on me is dishonest, your role is dishonest, your revisionist history is dishonest… You are dishonest scum, you are caught, and you and your buddies can eat lynches.
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…
Even if we argue that the deadline was 2:39 AM EST, which was, admittedly, ambiguous, that still doesn't address the fact that I got confirmation back from Bur a couple hours prior. That's also still hours before the chat was closed.
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That is impressively opposite of my list... Wow. Not sure what to think about that.
Your townreads on Last and Terry look like a bad town tunnel that I guess you've had all game.
You know there's most likely at least 4 scum still alive… Your not sure list suggests that every single one of those people are town. So you're just scumreading yourself, I guess?
As for the setup gaming...
Doesn't have to even be wrong for me to go uggh.
…
"Too much focus?" What kind of off-the-wall argument is that?
Oh, and:
While we're at it…
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Eww, but despite that, this sort of post does make me feel better about you.
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I don't feel like Last and townie players are from the same planet, and…
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Sounds like you're overly rigid in your reads because you know something that other people don't know.
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It is still playing against one's wincon, though.
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Wat? What is this… I don't even.
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Wouldn't be the only time this game…
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[b]@Everyone in the US: Have a happy turkey day!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I get where the thought process comes from, but I don't think it's really a thing. It kinda feels like the same vein as AtE... Like, "I can't convince you that I'm right, so I'm going to frustratedly remove myself from the game and maybe you'll be convinced then."
what do you think of kj?
I mean... if he's town and he gets himself killed, you should be convinced.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
You literally just mentioned me appealing to emotion like 6-7 posts ago lol, so your one to talk.
Also doesnt justify much if you defend him.
You're not the kind of player who can fake all this as scum. That's not BS, that is just twelve years of playing this game.
Pocket you? Why would I want you as an ally, LW? Most of the thread hates your playstyle and wants to mislynch you. You are the last person any scum would want to curry favor with, it wouldn't do me a bit of good.
So many people in this game have convinced themselves to just parrot these ideas, and not to think critically about what is going on in this game.
Terry thinks my suggesting suicide as an option is a scum tell. You think I want your help. Jenna says something I've been doing for over a decade is suspicious. Iso, when questioned about his basid for saying I do it more as scum, disappears from the thread and never justifies his comment.
How about I think you are a mislynch waiting to happen, LA. What if I am trying to stop that? What if, like you, I'm so pessimistic about this town's ability to read players correctly that I am planning to kill myself rather than let them mislynch a doctor who hasn't been counter claimed?
No, LW, I'm not trying to pocket you. And no, I'm not going to stop telling the town they are making a mistake by running you up, no matter how much you hate it. Because at the end of this game, I don't care about the mistakes the rest of the town made nearly as much as I care that I did everything in my power to fight for the win. Even if that means falling on my own sword.
You are a talking turkey. Undoubtedly, you get a bit paranoid this time of year, especially locked in a kill room with other people. Normally, you are charismatic and quite approachable, but in this situation people read your twitchiness and constant gobbling as a sign of nervousness and probably guilt. You know there's ways to get people to trust you, but haven't quite put your finger on it.
You have the following abilities:
Passive Abilities:
Tryptophan: If you are targeted, the player targeting you can't use BP during the next night.
Winner winner Turkey Dinner: If you die, each other player gets 3 BP, but can't use any abilities the next night.
Active Abilities:
Induce Hunger (1): Target a player. If they were to target tonight, you will be their tare instead.
You start the game with 3 BP.
You win when there are no threats remaining.
vote: deviled eggs for best pre dinner snack
@KJ, when I brought up the suicide thing early d1, did you chime in? I don't remember you saying anything.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!