If I am concocting Top8 decks from PTQs (have done for a LONG time) and losing constantly to things like a $10 Amonkhet only zombies deck, there's something wrong with my playing ability, yes?
I've seen a lot of local players pick up a popular deck, play with it once or twice and switch to something different because "it sucks". In reality, they just didn't get in enough games to become familiar with the deck.
Mirroring what Ashrog says, there is a huge difference in copying a deck some professional player used to Top8 a tourney, and understanding how to play the deck.
How to muligan with the deck, what are the odds of drawing a particular card, and when to cast certain spells all come with playing the deck for more than a few rounds.
To be honest, luck plays a factor as well. If your opponent happens to have more removal than you have threats and can stick a threat you can't remove, you are facing an uphill battle as it is.
Best advice is to keep playing a deck you like, regardless of whether it is a top 8 contender and get to know it in and out. You will see much better results and once you have a deep understanding of that deck, you can make the adjustments you need for your particular meta.
Example -
I've had countless games playing a 2nd place UR control against BW $10 Zombies, and while I am drawing things like Supreme Will and Glimmer of Genius, they are pummeling away with Dread Wanderer, Festering Mummy and a whole bunch of other 2/2s like that BW one that drains..
Sure, I run the 2nd place deck EXACTLY as it was on the list and still just lose.Another Example..
I played GB snakes for months-I then took it to a Game day and lost every game.
Decks have bad match-ups. Maybe UR is just weak against that Zombie build? What's your record against the rest of your local field? Your results against the metagame are more important than your results against a single deck.
Example -
I've had countless games playing a 2nd place UR control against BW $10 Zombies, and while I am drawing things like Supreme Will and Glimmer of Genius, they are pummeling away with Dread Wanderer, Festering Mummy and a whole bunch of other 2/2s like that BW one that drains..
Sure, I run the 2nd place deck EXACTLY as it was on the list and still just lose.Another Example..
I played GB snakes for months-I then took it to a Game day and lost every game.
You drew cards that didn't interact with the board state. Did you hold onto the supreme will to counter? Did you use it to dig for answers? What about the glimmer? Was this game 1? Post sideboard? Did you have sweltering suns or some other sweeper available? What about your target priority with cards like harnessed lightning, magma spray, etc?
Aggro starts are always a tough thing to deal with, especially if they get pressure in under your counters/removal. Puts you on the back foot. How you respond/luck of the draw comes into play heavily there. If you had no answers in hand, you dig for them. If you don't hit them.. well that's just the luck of the draw.
Remember this -- a netdeck will sometimes just lose to a homebrew.
It happens. Decks that do well in tournaments are designed to do well against other tournament decks, and can be caught flat footed against a homebrew. That's not to say the homebrew deck is some sort of undiscovered super decks. Sometimes, bad matchups happen.
But, yes, a lot of times it is about your skill. The only real way to find out is to play in tournaments (and thus face many decks and sibeoards) and see how well you do.
Matchups changes drasticly if you pack a bunch of removal, you can even go all out and play Hour of Devastation + Chandra, Flamecaller, with Abrade and less counterspells, more actual removal against them, Magma Spray , etc.
Decks dont win by themselves, and especially decks that depend on a specific metagame to shine. If you pack the wrong cards against the metagame that is presented to you, you might fight an uphill battle.
And every single mistakes in your play will cost you games.
Especially in the beginning its not important to win, its important to find out WHY you lose and prevent doing these mistakes.
Plenty to learn and by playing A LOT to get an idea how a deck ticks and what cards actual matter against opponents (while some are clearly obvisious, some interactions arent that intuitive, and its important to playtest for these subtle things, like ask why someone does a move during playtesting, ask them against what they played with the move they made, and even calculate a little if that even makes sense to do, or its just a feeling that might be horrible wrong).
Adding to what everyone else has said, it also comes down to knowing what the threats are in your opponent's deck. Since you're playing control, you have to know exactly which creatures to remove and which spells you want to counter, meaning you'll have to have a good knowledge of the card pool and general deck list of the more popular decks.
And as someone has said before, just because you own a Ferrari doesn't mean you know how to drive it or how to handle a course.
The thing I learned very early is control is more powerful, but harder to operate. A ten year old can drive a tractor but they'll wreck the sports car. Find your "style" and learn the nuisances to play it well.
Like what Mondu_the_fat said and others hinted at, it sounds like you're misreading the meta (given what limited information you're given).
Those net decks are tailored to solve very specific metas and are rarely appropriate for loca metas. I'm working on building a particular deck right now that placed err... sixth? I think... that's getting alot of attention lately causing some key cards to spike tenfold. Not happy. When I finish the assembling deck I think it'll be worth more than my truck... but I digress.
I've been studying that deck for more than three months now and I had to go all they way to a description of an early version in 2009 to grasp some of the more subtle interactions. It wasn't easy figuring some of them out or why some cards were chosen (Hi Blood Moon ) over others. I've been play testing a proxy of the deck for the last two weeks in secret at my local LGS and I'm still not able to steer it to my satisfaction. It's just a hard deck or I'm not reading the meta right I dunno. Still analyzing it. Point is, my deck is evolving into something different than what you might find online. The core strategies are still there and I'm still figuring other interactions out. But I've already cut some (darn you speculators!!!) and added others to make the deck mesh better with my playing style and, what I think, is the local meta.
I accepted long ago that's part of the game. Most times, I play one of four decks and will lose the game with all of them if I can't figure out the opponents strategy quickly enough.
And that's OK with me. I hit my stride during Ice Age once I figured out how to steer a W Weenie deck against a U Winter Orb deck. It took me the better part of a year to figure out how to reliably beat Winter Orb. Then I moved to a new city with a radically different meta so I took a break for a few years. now I'm back at square one in the meta.
My goal now is to win more than 2 rounds at ANY tournament (proper tournament). It took me 8 yrs to win ONE, and arlier this year I managed 2/4 (my best in ever in over 10 YEARS). RG energy with Fatal and unlicensed did it.
Maybe you need a mentor? I had one my first year of magic. He let me study his deck(s), check out his hand (around the kitchen table of course) whenever there was a swingy play and basically talked Magic. He also took me around to a bunch of shops, introducing alot of his friends and feeding me to them.
It was his deck that I had to overcome in my last post.
Matchups changes drasticly if you pack a bunch of removal, you can even go all out and play Hour of Devastation + Chandra, Flamecaller, with Abrade and less counterspells, more actual removal against them, Magma Spray , etc.
That does sound really bad... I went 2-2 in my first tournament ever. Maybe you need to find a group to practice with or play test online or something.
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That does sound really bad... I went 2-2 in my first tournament ever. Maybe you need to find a group to practice with or play test online or something.
I play weekly in a casual group, and I also play the Duels on Steam. Drafted today, as usual lost every game
Drafting is something else entirely. If you're not sure how to draft or have a decent amount experience in thinking about pick orders, you will not do well. Luckily when it comes to drafting there are a TON of videos put on by pros on their thought processes on drafting. It might be in your interests to watch them play.
Also, try to find some videos of how others play decks similar to yours. It might give you some insight into doing things differently against similar scenarios.
Is your playgroup playing multiplayer or duels? If you mostly play multiplayer games, your mindset may be locked too much into that. Duels are are very different beast from multiplayer games.
If this is as bad as you say, then the problem clearly lies with you and/or your decks (unlikely though in case of netdecks) and sideboards. Admitting that instead of just blaming luck is the first step to becoming better. The next is to analyze the games you've lost to determine what kind of mistakes you made. Some lost games may have been due to luck, but surely not all of them.
So why did you lose? Some things to look at:
- Did your deck not contain any cards that could have turned the tables? If so, your sideboard, and maybe even the main, needs tweaking.
- Did you just not get the cards you needed? Likely a(nother) mulligan was in order.
- Did you not have enough mana? You probably need more lands, or mulligan more aggressively.
- Did you not have the right colors of mana? Either your land base needs work, or you have been tapping your lands too carelessly. Which lands you tap for mana to pay for your spells is not a trivial matter.
- Did you waste your removal/counter/etc. on something only to have something even worse show up? Or were you tapped out when things went downhill? You need to learn when to hold back. Not everything has to be used right away. And I don't mean only things like counterspells or removal, but also digging spells, card draw, creatures, and more. Especially if you already have a card in hand, that can thwart your opponent's plans. Sometimes, just leaving mana open, especially blue, is enough to make the opponent hold back, even if you don't have anyhing.
etc.
Also, if you could show us your draft pool and deck, we may be able to get some clues.
That does sound really bad... I went 2-2 in my first tournament ever. Maybe you need to find a group to practice with or play test online or something.
I play weekly in a casual group, and I also play the Duels on Steam. Drafted today, as usual lost every game
No offense to your group, but if it's a casual group you won't learn to be better against them. You learn faster by playing against skilled opponents, also not AIs.
No offense to your group, but if it's a casual group you won't learn to be better against them. You learn faster by playing against skilled opponents, also not AIs.
These are players who have all come in top 4 (or won) regularly at events (ptqs and other qualifiers). I don't play AIs on Steam.
What formats are you playing when you play with your group? Are you playing casual decks, then going and and playing standard at FNM? I remember the summer I took a big jump in skill level, I picked one deck in the format (standard at the time) and then printed out and proxied all the other tier one decks in the format. I then would play my deck against my neighbor who would use all the other decks we made. We played almost every day. I went from being a 2-2 no prizes to top 4/top 8 much more consistently. Maybe you could try something like that?
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Honestly you should ask these friends that are regularly making top 4 to observe how you play and offer advice on what you could be doing differently. I think it will be difficult to offer further advice here because we can't observe what you're doing.
Do you switch between the 3 decks a lot? Perhaps just focus on one for now. Do you keep a game log? Like writing down life totals, when stuff was played, if you see their hand what is in it? What the other person suggested above is a good idea as well, I'd look into that
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I've seen a lot of local players pick up a popular deck, play with it once or twice and switch to something different because "it sucks". In reality, they just didn't get in enough games to become familiar with the deck.
How to muligan with the deck, what are the odds of drawing a particular card, and when to cast certain spells all come with playing the deck for more than a few rounds.
To be honest, luck plays a factor as well. If your opponent happens to have more removal than you have threats and can stick a threat you can't remove, you are facing an uphill battle as it is.
Best advice is to keep playing a deck you like, regardless of whether it is a top 8 contender and get to know it in and out. You will see much better results and once you have a deep understanding of that deck, you can make the adjustments you need for your particular meta.
I've had countless games playing a 2nd place UR control against BW $10 Zombies, and while I am drawing things like Supreme Will and Glimmer of Genius, they are pummeling away with Dread Wanderer, Festering Mummy and a whole bunch of other 2/2s like that BW one that drains..
Sure, I run the 2nd place deck EXACTLY as it was on the list and still just lose.Another Example..
I played GB snakes for months-I then took it to a Game day and lost every game.
You drew cards that didn't interact with the board state. Did you hold onto the supreme will to counter? Did you use it to dig for answers? What about the glimmer? Was this game 1? Post sideboard? Did you have sweltering suns or some other sweeper available? What about your target priority with cards like harnessed lightning, magma spray, etc?
Aggro starts are always a tough thing to deal with, especially if they get pressure in under your counters/removal. Puts you on the back foot. How you respond/luck of the draw comes into play heavily there. If you had no answers in hand, you dig for them. If you don't hit them.. well that's just the luck of the draw.
It happens. Decks that do well in tournaments are designed to do well against other tournament decks, and can be caught flat footed against a homebrew. That's not to say the homebrew deck is some sort of undiscovered super decks. Sometimes, bad matchups happen.
But, yes, a lot of times it is about your skill. The only real way to find out is to play in tournaments (and thus face many decks and sibeoards) and see how well you do.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Matchups changes drasticly if you pack a bunch of removal, you can even go all out and play Hour of Devastation + Chandra, Flamecaller, with Abrade and less counterspells, more actual removal against them, Magma Spray , etc.
Decks dont win by themselves, and especially decks that depend on a specific metagame to shine. If you pack the wrong cards against the metagame that is presented to you, you might fight an uphill battle.
And every single mistakes in your play will cost you games.
Especially in the beginning its not important to win, its important to find out WHY you lose and prevent doing these mistakes.
Plenty to learn and by playing A LOT to get an idea how a deck ticks and what cards actual matter against opponents (while some are clearly obvisious, some interactions arent that intuitive, and its important to playtest for these subtle things, like ask why someone does a move during playtesting, ask them against what they played with the move they made, and even calculate a little if that even makes sense to do, or its just a feeling that might be horrible wrong).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
And as someone has said before, just because you own a Ferrari doesn't mean you know how to drive it or how to handle a course.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Those net decks are tailored to solve very specific metas and are rarely appropriate for loca metas. I'm working on building a particular deck right now that placed err... sixth? I think... that's getting alot of attention lately causing some key cards to spike tenfold. Not happy. When I finish the assembling deck I think it'll be worth more than my truck... but I digress.
I've been studying that deck for more than three months now and I had to go all they way to a description of an early version in 2009 to grasp some of the more subtle interactions. It wasn't easy figuring some of them out or why some cards were chosen (Hi Blood Moon ) over others. I've been play testing a proxy of the deck for the last two weeks in secret at my local LGS and I'm still not able to steer it to my satisfaction. It's just a hard deck or I'm not reading the meta right I dunno. Still analyzing it. Point is, my deck is evolving into something different than what you might find online. The core strategies are still there and I'm still figuring other interactions out. But I've already cut some (darn you speculators!!!) and added others to make the deck mesh better with my playing style and, what I think, is the local meta.
I accepted long ago that's part of the game. Most times, I play one of four decks and will lose the game with all of them if I can't figure out the opponents strategy quickly enough.
And that's OK with me. I hit my stride during Ice Age once I figured out how to steer a W Weenie deck against a U Winter Orb deck. It took me the better part of a year to figure out how to reliably beat Winter Orb. Then I moved to a new city with a radically different meta so I took a break for a few years. now I'm back at square one in the meta.
Maybe you need a mentor? I had one my first year of magic. He let me study his deck(s), check out his hand (around the kitchen table of course) whenever there was a swingy play and basically talked Magic. He also took me around to a bunch of shops, introducing alot of his friends and feeding me to them.
It was his deck that I had to overcome in my last post.
I run 2 Spray main as well as 2 Abrade, 4 Harnessed, 1 Sweltering Suns and 2 Hour of Devestaion.
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
I play weekly in a casual group, and I also play the Duels on Steam. Drafted today, as usual lost every game
Also, try to find some videos of how others play decks similar to yours. It might give you some insight into doing things differently against similar scenarios.
If this is as bad as you say, then the problem clearly lies with you and/or your decks (unlikely though in case of netdecks) and sideboards. Admitting that instead of just blaming luck is the first step to becoming better. The next is to analyze the games you've lost to determine what kind of mistakes you made. Some lost games may have been due to luck, but surely not all of them.
So why did you lose? Some things to look at:
- Did your deck not contain any cards that could have turned the tables? If so, your sideboard, and maybe even the main, needs tweaking.
- Did you just not get the cards you needed? Likely a(nother) mulligan was in order.
- Did you not have enough mana? You probably need more lands, or mulligan more aggressively.
- Did you not have the right colors of mana? Either your land base needs work, or you have been tapping your lands too carelessly. Which lands you tap for mana to pay for your spells is not a trivial matter.
- Did you waste your removal/counter/etc. on something only to have something even worse show up? Or were you tapped out when things went downhill? You need to learn when to hold back. Not everything has to be used right away. And I don't mean only things like counterspells or removal, but also digging spells, card draw, creatures, and more. Especially if you already have a card in hand, that can thwart your opponent's plans. Sometimes, just leaving mana open, especially blue, is enough to make the opponent hold back, even if you don't have anyhing.
etc.
Also, if you could show us your draft pool and deck, we may be able to get some clues.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
No offense to your group, but if it's a casual group you won't learn to be better against them. You learn faster by playing against skilled opponents, also not AIs.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
These are players who have all come in top 4 (or won) regularly at events (ptqs and other qualifiers). I don't play AIs on Steam.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G
Standard. Top 8 decks mostly.
I've made 3 of the top decks/archetypes from scg and I try to play those against their top 8 scg decks..
Decks
Modern
BGR Jund RGB
BW Eldrazi and Taxes WB
BWGAbzan Company GWB
Mtgo Modern
G Company Elves G