1 Planeswalker (your favorite, as it's irrelevant who it is) with 4 Loyalty Counters
I'll do two actions:
1) Pay 4 and tap Contagion Engine
2) Cast Deepglow Skate with As Foretold.
No one responds to my actions.
What are the triggers and to what result?
To save you time from writing I'm stating here what I believe:
1) Pay 4 and tap Contagion Engine
1.1) First Proliferate adds 4 1/+1 Counters to each FM and MB (1 Proliferate + 1 for Scales, x 2 for Menace), 1 Loyalty Counter to the PW and 1 Time Counter to As Foretold.
1.1.1) I Draw 4 cards to FM
1.2) Second Proliferate adds 4 1/+1 Counters to each FM and MB, 1 Loyalty Counter to the PW and 1 Time Counter to As Foretold.
1.2.1) I Draw 3 cards to FM
Or do the creatures get 3 instead of 4 each of those times?
1 Planeswalker (your favorite) with 6 Loyalty Counters
2) Cast Deepglow Skate by paying 0 using As Foretold. (here it gets more tricky)
2.1) Inexorable Tide triggers and adds 4 1/+1 Counters to each FM and MB, 1 Loyalty Counter to the PW and 1 Time Counter to As Foretold.
2.1.1) I Draw 4 cards to FM (again this may be 3)
2.2) Deepglow Skate enters the battlefield with 32 +1/+1 Counters (15 thanks to Master Biomancer power, 1 extra to Hardened Scales and then double that by Corpsejack Menace)
2.2.2) I choose that Deepglow Skate trigger goes first to the stack
2.2.3) Cathars' Crusade triggers and resolves giving (also helped by the Scales and the Menace) 4 (?) +1/+1 Counters to each of the now four Creatures.
2.2.3.4) I draw 4 cards to FM (now it has 17 +1/+1 Counters if I'm not mistaken)
2.2.2) Deepglow Skate trigger resolves and doubles all counters, but a) Hardened Scales gives one extra, and B)Corpsejack Menace doubles the ones that are being put in this step
2.2.2.4) Draw up to 36 cards (what I don't want to loose the game drawing all of them).
I did not bother reading through the rest of your post after the first mistake quite early on, and that is, that you proliferate twice during the resolution of Contagion Engine's ability, so you don't get to put any triggers on the stack in between, much less resolve them.
So here's what happens, provided you choose to proliferate all possible counters and order the replacement effects for maximum value:
You proliferate once, putting 4 +1/+1 counters each on Master Biomancer and Fathom Mage (due to Hardened Scales and Corpsejack Menace), a loyalty counter on the planeswalker, and a time counter on As Foretold. This triggers the FM four times, but those triggers have to wait. Then you proliferate again, with the same results. This agin triggers FM four times. The ablity finishes resolving and is removed from the stack, SBAs ae checked, and now the 8 triggers from FM are put on the stack. When each one resolves, you draw a card, for 8 cards total.
You cast Deepglow Skate for free due to 5 time counters on As Foretold. This triggers Inexorable Tide, which goes on top of that spell and resolves before it. When it does, you proliferate again, with the same results as before. You draw another 4 cards off of FM, which by now has 13 +1/+1 counters as does the Master Biomancer. Deepglow Skate resolves, it enters with (13 (MB) + 1 (HS)) *2 (CM) = 28 +1/+1 counters. You get two triggers, its own and Cathars' Crusade. For maximum gain, the Crusade's trigger is put on top of the Skate's trigger. When it resolves, you get 4 more +1/+1 counters for each of your creatures due to HS and CM. 4 more card draw triggers from the FM. Then the Skate's trigger resolves and doubles all the counters, which means HS and CM are applied again for all +1/+1 counters, adding (X+1)*2 counters to each creature that has at least one of those, where X is the number of +1/+1 counters currently on the creature, essentially making it have 3*X+2 +1/+1 counters. The FM gained 36 more counters for 36 more cards.
I'm sure, I got the triggers and replacement effects right, but may have made a mistake or two in the actual calculations (quite a lot to keep track of), so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on the numbers.
edit:
Seems like we agree on the numbers, mostly. You get to draw a few more cards though, and with a slightly different timing.
Thank you.
We got to the same numbers at the end of it all... I tought the replacement effects triggered and resolved for each occurrence of the proliferate. But if it's at the end I don't think we should have gotten to the same numbers. Strange.
Probably it doesn't make much of a difference.
Replacement effects don't trigger, they apply immediately. That's why they get to apply to each proliferate right away. And each proliferate is seen as a different event by them, so they modify each one.
Oh Rezzahan, just realized: we missed one trigger.
After "2.2) Deepglow Skate enters the battlefield with 32 +1/+1 Counters", Fathom Mage (@ 14 power) evolves and would get 4 counters and allow to draw up to 4 cards there and the other numbers would change as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Imagine this scenario.
I have in my control / In play
I'll do two actions:
1) Pay 4 and tap Contagion Engine
2) Cast Deepglow Skate with As Foretold.
No one responds to my actions.
What are the triggers and to what result?
To save you time from writing I'm stating here what I believe:
1) Pay 4 and tap Contagion Engine
1.1) First Proliferate adds 4 1/+1 Counters to each FM and MB (1 Proliferate + 1 for Scales, x 2 for Menace), 1 Loyalty Counter to the PW and 1 Time Counter to As Foretold.
1.1.1) I Draw 4 cards to FM
1.2) Second Proliferate adds 4 1/+1 Counters to each FM and MB, 1 Loyalty Counter to the PW and 1 Time Counter to As Foretold.
1.2.1) I Draw 3 cards to FM
Or do the creatures get 3 instead of 4 each of those times?
At end of action 1 (if it where 4)
2) Cast Deepglow Skate by paying 0 using As Foretold. (here it gets more tricky)
2.1) Inexorable Tide triggers and adds 4 1/+1 Counters to each FM and MB, 1 Loyalty Counter to the PW and 1 Time Counter to As Foretold.
2.1.1) I Draw 4 cards to FM (again this may be 3)
2.2) Deepglow Skate enters the battlefield with 32 +1/+1 Counters (15 thanks to Master Biomancer power, 1 extra to Hardened Scales and then double that by Corpsejack Menace)
2.2.2) I choose that Deepglow Skate trigger goes first to the stack
2.2.3) Cathars' Crusade triggers and resolves giving (also helped by the Scales and the Menace) 4 (?) +1/+1 Counters to each of the now four Creatures.
2.2.3.4) I draw 4 cards to FM (now it has 17 +1/+1 Counters if I'm not mistaken)
2.2.2) Deepglow Skate trigger resolves and doubles all counters, but a) Hardened Scales gives one extra, and B)Corpsejack Menace doubles the ones that are being put in this step
2.2.2.4) Draw up to 36 cards (what I don't want to loose the game drawing all of them).
At end of action 2
34 creatures: Master Biomancer with 53 +1/+1 Counter, a Corpsejack Menace with 14 +1/+1 Counters, and a Fathom Mage with 53 +1/+1 Counter. And a Deepglow Skate with 98 +1/+1 Counters.Did I go trough with this correctly??
PS: If I had Crystalline Crawler in there I could cast some cards. But not Winding Constrictor which would just complicate next turn even more!
So here's what happens, provided you choose to proliferate all possible counters and order the replacement effects for maximum value:
You proliferate once, putting 4 +1/+1 counters each on Master Biomancer and Fathom Mage (due to Hardened Scales and Corpsejack Menace), a loyalty counter on the planeswalker, and a time counter on As Foretold. This triggers the FM four times, but those triggers have to wait. Then you proliferate again, with the same results. This agin triggers FM four times. The ablity finishes resolving and is removed from the stack, SBAs ae checked, and now the 8 triggers from FM are put on the stack. When each one resolves, you draw a card, for 8 cards total.
You cast Deepglow Skate for free due to 5 time counters on As Foretold. This triggers Inexorable Tide, which goes on top of that spell and resolves before it. When it does, you proliferate again, with the same results as before. You draw another 4 cards off of FM, which by now has 13 +1/+1 counters as does the Master Biomancer. Deepglow Skate resolves, it enters with (13 (MB) + 1 (HS)) *2 (CM) = 28 +1/+1 counters. You get two triggers, its own and Cathars' Crusade. For maximum gain, the Crusade's trigger is put on top of the Skate's trigger. When it resolves, you get 4 more +1/+1 counters for each of your creatures due to HS and CM. 4 more card draw triggers from the FM. Then the Skate's trigger resolves and doubles all the counters, which means HS and CM are applied again for all +1/+1 counters, adding (X+1)*2 counters to each creature that has at least one of those, where X is the number of +1/+1 counters currently on the creature, essentially making it have 3*X+2 +1/+1 counters. The FM gained 36 more counters for 36 more cards.
You are left with
- a planeswalker with 14 loyalty counters
- As Foretold with 12 time counters
- Master Biomancer with 53 +1/+1 counters
- Fathom Mage with 53 +1/+1 counters
- Corpsejack Menace with 14 +1/+1 counters
- Deepglow Skate with 98 +1/+1 counters
- 52 cards drawn
I'm sure, I got the triggers and replacement effects right, but may have made a mistake or two in the actual calculations (quite a lot to keep track of), so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on the numbers.
edit:
Seems like we agree on the numbers, mostly. You get to draw a few more cards though, and with a slightly different timing.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
We got to the same numbers at the end of it all... I tought the replacement effects triggered and resolved for each occurrence of the proliferate. But if it's at the end I don't think we should have gotten to the same numbers. Strange.
Probably it doesn't make much of a difference.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
After "2.2) Deepglow Skate enters the battlefield with 32 +1/+1 Counters", Fathom Mage (@ 14 power) evolves and would get 4 counters and allow to draw up to 4 cards there and the other numbers would change as well.