The addition of Emrakul really was enough. Robbing Innistrad of its identity during SOI/EMN really was excessive and compromised things. That's just it… they're always going over the top with no need to do so. It makes me uneasy about returns which should be anticipated instead.
What identity? There was an Innistrad before Avacyn, and there was an Innistrad while Avacyn was trapped in the Helvault. Planes aren't static dioramas that shouldn't be sullied. The closest a plane has come to that is Equilor, and it's ridiculously ancient.
It's about time Jace was in a story. Even the irrational haters can agree there. And have.
Jace has been in the last 5 stories. Why does he have to be in this one? Why can't this story be about Vraska?
This Jace hater would say that Nicol Bolas should have killed Jace so I'd never have to read about him ever again.
I really don't care to read about what Jace is feeling or what he's thinking. He's a blue planeswalker who is thousands of years old who is supposed to be super logical but he mopes likes a 13 year old girl all the time. I'll never get back the time in my life that I've spent reading about Jace, but I won't waste any remaining time I have left on this terrible character.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
It's about time Jace was in a story. Even the irrational haters can agree there. And have.
Jace has been in the last 5 stories. Why does he have to be in this one? Why can't this story be about Vraska?
Whine all you want but Jace and the rest of the Origin 5 are our main characters. If it wasn't Jace it would be one of the others and Jace hasn't been the focus or even really that active in a story since SoI.
I really don't care to read about what Jace is feeling or what he's thinking. He's a blue planeswalker who is thousands of years old who is supposed to be super logical but he mopes likes a 13 year old girl all the time. I'll never get back the time in my life that I've spent reading about Jace, but I won't waste any remaining time I have left on this terrible character.
Jace is in his 20's bud. Lillian is only 200+, Nissa is in her 60's, Gideon is mid-20/early 30's and Chanadra is 23. Only alive planeswalker thousands of years old are Bolas, Ugin, Sorin, Nahiri and maybe Ob. Don't know where you got that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
And on top of that, Jace has the least cards in standard at one, hasn't had a card since SOI, is the only GW member without a PW Deck yet while others like Nissa have two. He's been the least visible in the story, and on the cards despite being the absolute most popular PW of all by a large margin.
So sit down, haters. It's about time the punished majority got what we wanted.
And on top of that, Jace has the least cards in standard at one, hasn't had a card since SOI, is the only GW member without a PW Deck yet while others like Nissa have two. He's been the least visible in the story, and on the cards despite being the absolute most popular PW of all by a large margin.
So sit down, haters. It's about time the punished majority got what we wanted.
This comes from someone who calls entire products and sets trash because they didn't give a card to one insanely obscure character most people don't even know exists. Mmh...
It's about time Jace was in a story. Even the irrational haters can agree there. And have.
Jace has been in the last 5 stories. Why does he have to be in this one? Why can't this story be about Vraska?
If by "stories" you mean blocks, he showed up in Zendikar (BFZ block), Innistrad (SOI block), Kaladesh (KLD block) and Amonkhet (AKH block), which are the last 4, not 5. Out of those 4, the only story he got a new card in was SOI block. Also, since when does the number of stories one shows up in dictate how likable they are?
Also, Jace being on Ixalan doesn't necessarily stop the story from being about Vraska.
I really don't care to read about what Jace is feeling or what he's thinking. He's a blue planeswalker who is thousands of years old who is supposed to be super logical but he mopes likes a 13 year old girl all the time. I'll never get back the time in my life that I've spent reading about Jace, but I won't waste any remaining time I have left on this terrible character.
He's not thousands of years old. Not even close. This Jace hater should actually do his research on the character he's hating.
And on top of that, Jace has the least cards in standard at one, hasn't had a card since SOI, is the only GW member without a PW Deck yet while others like Nissa have two. He's been the least visible in the story, and on the cards despite being the absolute most popular PW of all by a large margin.
So sit down, haters. It's about time the punished majority got what we wanted.
This comes from someone who calls entire products and sets trash because they didn't give a card to one insanely obscure character most people don't even know exists. Mmh...
Wait, am I being knocked for actually defending a product here? Interesting. Instead of arguing though, I'll leave these quotes:
I don't suspect Avatar will be a tribe. Just that the cover cards, which will all have Eminence, will be [Deck Tribe] Avatar.
Dragon, Cat, Spirit and Human are possibilities, since the decks could share new cards. But even then, the next two could be anything, really.
At least the Amonkhet critics can have their UG Cat Legend. I am not hyped for cats, but Humans and Spirits, or Angels if they do it is of interest to me.
Aside from O-Kagachi I have no interest in Dragons. Very disappointed to see Vampires again, but at least Edgar Markov (no doubt it's him in the third art) should be getting a card for his fans, as well as perhaps Runo Stormkirk, Anje Falkenrath and any other missing Innistrad Vampire Legends. I have no interest in this or in seeing even more Vampire support so soon, but I do admit those character cards were long overdue.
^as someone who doesn't care for Vampires. I know elsewhere I've stated I'm happy for Taigam and Vampire fans being vocal and heard.
I'm critical when Return sets do a second round of cards for characters that have them instead of those that didn't twice. And if Jenrik were so obscure, he wouldn't have been mentioned in several Magic Story articles, quoted on cards, and killed on-screen. He's even in the artwork of Tamiyo's journal. He should have gotten a card in the return. I don't think any cardless characters from Innistrad did, actually. It's a valid reason to be critical. WOTC claims they want their returns to cover new grounds, but just ended up killing off characters and drastically changing the theme of its planes rather than giving other characters some time to shine.
Since Commander products are the only place left we can expect those characters, it bothers me when we get new, made-up, generic legends like Anya over Feather. Because we're always getting new Legends, so why here too?
Rem Karolus, Halana and Alena, Jenrik, Runo Stromkirk, Anje Falkenrath, Edgar Markov and Ludevic all lacked cards in the block itself.
I know that Ludevic got a card in C16 and Edgar is getting a card in C17, but Ludevic's card was far and away from what one would expect from a premier alchemist and skaberen.
Rem Karolus, Halana and Alena, Jenrik, Runo Stromkirk, Anje Falkenrath, Edgar Markov and Ludevic all lacked cards in the block itself.
I know that Ludevic got a card in C16 and Edgar is getting a card in C17, but Ludevic's card was far and away from what one would expect from a premier alchemist and skaberen.
For sure. Since Innistrad had a Zombie theme, had Ludevic got a card in SOI/EMN, there's a chance he'd have interacted with that theme and had an appropriate effect. But since he got shoehorned into C16 instead where, for whatever reason they wanted to do bottom-up design instead of top-down, we got a very awkward card. I hope people can see why I'm critical of these mistakes. Instead of Odric, Olivia, Thalia, Sigarda, Avacyn, Gisela, Bruna, Gisa, Geralf, etc. all getting a second round… Olivia was the most offensive to me, because all her card did was show how she changed outfits. We could have inferred her storyline involvement through Call The Bloodline and Campaign of Vengeance. Just wasn't a smart move IMO to re-hash like that. Aside from Jenrik I had hoped to also see Cosper Lowe. If return sets just change a plane drastically and don't deliver other character cards, they're not really something a fan would want…
And on top of that, Jace has the least cards in standard at one, hasn't had a card since SOI, is the only GW member without a PW Deck yet while others like Nissa have two. He's been the least visible in the story, and on the cards despite being the absolute most popular PW of all by a large margin.
So sit down, haters. It's about time the punished majority got what we wanted.
This comes from someone who calls entire products and sets trash because they didn't give a card to one insanely obscure character most people don't even know exists. Mmh...
Wait, am I being knocked for actually defending a product here? Interesting. Instead of arguing though, I'll leave these quotes:
I don't suspect Avatar will be a tribe. Just that the cover cards, which will all have Eminence, will be [Deck Tribe] Avatar.
Dragon, Cat, Spirit and Human are possibilities, since the decks could share new cards. But even then, the next two could be anything, really.
At least the Amonkhet critics can have their UG Cat Legend. I am not hyped for cats, but Humans and Spirits, or Angels if they do it is of interest to me.
Aside from O-Kagachi I have no interest in Dragons. Very disappointed to see Vampires again, but at least Edgar Markov (no doubt it's him in the third art) should be getting a card for his fans, as well as perhaps Runo Stormkirk, Anje Falkenrath and any other missing Innistrad Vampire Legends. I have no interest in this or in seeing even more Vampire support so soon, but I do admit those character cards were long overdue.
^as someone who doesn't care for Vampires. I know elsewhere I've stated I'm happy for Taigam and Vampire fans being vocal and heard.
I think that the point was less about you always being critical of new products and more about you letting the presence or absence of a very specific fictional character dictate your opinion on an entire product.
I'm critical when Return sets do a second round of cards for characters that have them instead of those that didn't twice.
Fun fact: characters with cards generally have way more fans than characters without card. WotC didn't want to piss off tens of thousands of people by not printing a new Avacyn or Thalia or Olivia Voldaren. However, they weren't overly concerned with pissing off one person by not making a Jenrik card. Crazy, right?
And if Jenrik were so obscure, he wouldn't have been mentioned in several Magic Story articles,
Several? It was like two stories, max.
quoted on cards,
You do realize that the vast majority of flavor text characters are never even considered for cards of their own, right?
and killed on-screen.
No, he wasn't. Jenrik died offscreen. He was killed by Nahiri before the story where Jace finds his remains.
He's even in the artwork of Tamiyo's journal.
Unless you look up the full artwork online, which most players never will, only his petrified hands are visable.
He should have gotten a card in the return.
Your opinion is not objective fact no matter how many times you repeat it.
I don't think any cardless characters from Innistrad did, actually.
Ulrich says hi.
It's a valid reason to be critical.
For them not making more cards for cardless characters in return sets in general? Sure. For them not making a card for one extremely specific and relatively obscure character that you chose to obsess over? No.
WOTC claims they want their returns to cover new grounds,
Which they did.
but just ended up killing off characters
You say that like it's a bad thing. In a violence-centric story for a violence-centric game, it would be weird if they never killed off any characters.
and drastically changing the theme of its planes
Going from 100% gothic horror to a mix of gothic horror and cosmic horror is not a very drastic theme change, and it will likely be reversed next time we return to Innistrad anyway.
rather than giving other characters some time to shine.
This is the exact reason why many people are unhappy to see Jace take a leading role yet again. Tell me, why is it ok for a prominent character you like to steal attention from minor characters you don't care about but not ok for prominent characters you don't care about to steal attention from a minor character you like?
Ulrich was a character who didn't get a card until SoI, as well as point out that Lovecraft began cosmic horror from evolving it from gothic horror (which is why Bloodborn did the same themes). Looking over the characters who got second rounds in Innistrad I think the issue is all those character where extreme popular and all had pretty good cards (first time around) that people would really wanted to see again and for Avacyn, Bruna and Gisela this was their last chance to be on cards. I think it was more of an issue of lack of character slots.
Anyways back on topic, what races do you all think we going to see in Ixalan? From the leaks we know;
Humans WUBRG
Dinosaurs RGW
VampiresWB
MerfolkGU
but that still leaves holes. Also be interesting to see if this is the first dragonless plane (unless you could Lorwyn and Tarkir)since this is plane is focused on Dinos (also making hydras odd to put in...unless...dinosaur hydra?!), as well as no angels since it doesn't mesh with Mesoamerica but then there is Kaladesh and Amonkhet so...
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Why would I do research on a character that I hate to read about?
Considering you used a blatantly false claim about Jace's age range as part of your justification, it would have made you appear less ignorant if you at least knew that he's pretty young.
This is the exact reason why many people are unhappy to see Jace take a leading role yet again. Tell me, why is it ok for a prominent character you like to steal attention from minor characters you don't care about but not ok for prominent characters you don't care about to steal attention from a minor character you like?
A leading role he hasn't had since SOI?
Because the character that I like "stealing attention" (hardly objective) is the most popular Planeswalker of all.
Who is a Gatewatch member.
In the Gatewatch era.
Who isn't "stealing attention" from anyone.
Who hasn't had a prominent role in the story since SOI.
You know, since you care about facts. If you have problems with the new story model, don't lay that burden on Jace or undermine the actual facts - he's #1, he's been scarce, and he's in the Gatewatch. All we even know about him is he's getting a card BTW - of which he only has one in standard while other GW members have SIX. Considering how much complaining I'm seeing about me complaining, it's amusing to see you complain about me not complaining this time.
Yeah no it's time for Jace to have a prominent role. People who complain that he's overexposed are just wrong. He's been in two books, three if you count his brief appearance in The Purifying Fire. Since then he's been the lead character in two storylines, RTR and SOI. Since Origins and all the change that's brought he's had 2 cards, his origins version and SOI version. Otherwise he's just been a support character only present because Wizards was pushing the gatewatch a bit to hard. I think of they hadn't felt like the whole gatewatch had to be together every block he wouldn't have appeared in Kaladesh at all. I mean if anyone is overexposed right now its Nissa and Gideon. And this upcoming block involves Vraska who's biggest rival right now is Jace. I say you all again; if you don't like the story that they're chosing to tell go write your own.
I'm actually really excited to see what they will do with Jace in the Ixalan stories, mainly because it won't be him in the context of direct involvement with the Gatewatch, which I think has pigeonholed him as a character a bit (having to represent mono blue as part of a balanced one-from-every-color team). Someone mentioned a concern in some other thread (possibly, too lazy to look right now) about Jace finding the city of gold because that's just what he does because he's super smart, even though there's pirate captains who've lived on the plane their whole life. It would be very deus ex machina if Jace is the one to find the hidden city, but I don't think it would be totally horrible writing if Jace was somehow involved with the finding of the hidden city.
Speaking as someone who isn't particularly fond of Jace, I really don't understand the Jace hate. He hasn't had a leading role - or a card - since SOI. Personally, I'm more inclined to be happy for his fans (a couple of whom are good friends of mine) that he's getting a spotlight shined his way again. And I'm looking forward to a little more development for Vraska
Personally, I'm more interested in Liliana's relations with the rest of the gang after they stupidly ignored her warnings and are holding healthy survival instincts against her. Which just goes to my point. We all have characters we're invested in, and it's perfectly natural that they wouldn't be the same ones. Why hate on someone else's favorite character? We're a community, Magic should bring us together.
Personally, I'm more interested in Liliana's relations with the rest of the gang after they stupidly ignored her warnings and are holding healthy survival instincts against her. Which just goes to my point. We all have characters we're invested in, and it's perfectly natural that they wouldn't be the same ones. Why hate on someone else's favorite character? We're a community, Magic should bring us together.
To be honest when they write Liliana well (which I think is a good 90% of the time (there are times where she acts like a teenage girl and I enjoyed the story about the fight with her and Rakaketh until the part where she ate him)) she is my favorite character. Everybody views her as betraying them (which I guess she openly told Bolas they'd meet up later) but they were just too eager and they didn't seem willing to listen to Ajani who has actually fought Bolas and gotten away with it and Lilly who has worked for him before. I was actually sad for her as she pleaded with them to go with her. So it would be interesting to see if she is really going to rejoin them, Bolas, or go her own way.
This is the exact reason why many people are unhappy to see Jace take a leading role yet again. Tell me, why is it ok for a prominent character you like to steal attention from minor characters you don't care about but not ok for prominent characters you don't care about to steal attention from a minor character you like?
A leading role he hasn't had since SOI?
You know those characters from Innistrad who already had cards? The ones you think shouldn't have gotten new cards in SOI block? They hadn't gotten cards since the original Innistrad. So Jace absolutely needs a new card after a year and a half but those characters didn't deserve to get their second cards after four years?
Because the character that I like "stealing attention" (hardly objective) is the most popular Planeswalker of all.
I admit that Jace is more popular than characters he is theoretically taking the place of. But guess what? Avacyn, Sigarda, Bruna, Gisela, Odric, Thalia, Olivia, Geralf, and Gisa are each way more popular than Jenrik. Why does popularity justify Jace getting a card but not those other characters?
Who is a Gatewatch member.
In the Gatewatch era.
Ok, so a Gatewatch member makes sense in a leading role. But the aforementioned popular legendary creatures are iconic Innistrad characters. In a Return to Innistrad set. It makes sense for them to get new legendary creature cards by the same logic. Far more so than it does for Jenrik.
Who isn't "stealing attention" from anyone.
If he's the main protagonist, then someone else isn't. If Jace wasn't in the block, then Vraska or Ajani or the new planeswalker could have been the main protagonist. Now they're all going to be side characters. I'd call that stealing attention.
Who hasn't had a prominent role in the story since SOI.
Depends on how you define "prominent". Even in blocks where he isn't represented by a card, he gets way more focus in the story than 90% of the legendary creatures in the block. He's been less prominent than other planeswalkers in the Gatewatch, but you can't deny that he's still been quite prominent.
You know, since you care about facts.
I just think it's ironic for someone to make completely, objectively false statements relating to a character they've obsessed over for years. "Jenrik died onscreen." Are you kidding me?
If you have problems with the new story model,
I do, but even if I liked the story model and I liked Jace I would still be exhausted by your constant complaining about Jenrik and think that it isn't remotely justified. And I would still notice the hypocrisy of how your complaints about Jenrik completely contradict your position on Jace.
don't lay that burden on Jace or undermine the actual facts - he's #1,
Yes, he's the most popular planeswalker. I know that. I never tried to "undermine" that fact.
Yet I still don't understand how Jace taking priority over other characters is justified by his popularity but popular legendary creatures on Innistrad taking priority over Jenrik is not.
he's been scarce,
He's about to appear in his FIFTH (sixth counting Origins) consecutive storyline. Scarce my ass.
The only possible way he's been scarce has been on how many cards he's gotten recently (not story appearances) and even then only relative to most ridiculously prolific characters in the game. Compared to any other character, he's been doing pretty damn well for himself.
and he's in the Gatewatch.
Once again, I know that and I never disputed it.
All we even know about him is he's getting a card BTW
If you think that there's even a 1% chance of him not being the main character, you're kidding yourself. Read the art book description. Or look at any other block in which Jace has gotten a card within the past few years. We all know that he's going to be the main character. Again.
- of which he only has one in standard while other GW members have SIX.
This is a problem with how they've been representing the other Gatewatch planeswalkers, not with how they've been representing Jace. 1-3 planeswalker cards per Gatewatch member in Standard is reasonable; 5-6 is not. Jace is the actually only one who's had an acceptable number of cards recently.
And yes, after Ixalan Jace will still have a pretty reasonable number of cards, especially compared to the rest of the Gatewatch. Let me be clear: I'm not disputing whether or not Jace's presence makes sense or not. Given the way they've been doing things recently (regardless of whether or not I agree with it), it's not a surprise at all to see Jace on Ixalan. I'm not arguing that.
What I am arguing is that your argument for why Jace is ok on Ixalan and your argument for why Jenrik should have gotten a card completely contradict each other.
In both cases, it's an issue of whether or not established, popular, well-developed major characters should be given cards and story importance rather than less popular, less-developed minor characters. There's a good argument to be made for both sides, so I would be fine if you consistently supported one side or the other. But you don't. When you like the major character, you take the side of major characters. When you like the minor character, you take the side of the minor characters. It's inconsistent and hypocritical.
You are so obviously biased towards certain characters that you completely contradict yourself. It's difficult to take you seriously when you talk about what's justified and what isn't because I know that you'll change sides once something you like is on the opposite side.
Considering how much complaining I'm seeing about me complaining, it's amusing to see you complain about me not complaining this time.
Oh, I'm not complaining about you not complaining. You're thinking of someone else. I'm definitely one of the people complaining about your complaining. I thought it was pretty clear.
What identity? There was an Innistrad before Avacyn, and there was an Innistrad while Avacyn was trapped in the Helvault. Planes aren't static dioramas that shouldn't be sullied. The closest a plane has come to that is Equilor, and it's ridiculously ancient.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
So why is he your least favourite character of all time, and why is he enough to make you lose interest in a story we know little about?
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Jace has been in the last 5 stories. Why does he have to be in this one? Why can't this story be about Vraska?
This Jace hater would say that Nicol Bolas should have killed Jace so I'd never have to read about him ever again.
I really don't care to read about what Jace is feeling or what he's thinking. He's a blue planeswalker who is thousands of years old who is supposed to be super logical but he mopes likes a 13 year old girl all the time. I'll never get back the time in my life that I've spent reading about Jace, but I won't waste any remaining time I have left on this terrible character.
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
Whine all you want but Jace and the rest of the Origin 5 are our main characters. If it wasn't Jace it would be one of the others and Jace hasn't been the focus or even really that active in a story since SoI.
Jace is in his 20's bud. Lillian is only 200+, Nissa is in her 60's, Gideon is mid-20/early 30's and Chanadra is 23. Only alive planeswalker thousands of years old are Bolas, Ugin, Sorin, Nahiri and maybe Ob. Don't know where you got that.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
So sit down, haters. It's about time the punished majority got what we wanted.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
This comes from someone who calls entire products and sets trash because they didn't give a card to one insanely obscure character most people don't even know exists. Mmh...
If by "stories" you mean blocks, he showed up in Zendikar (BFZ block), Innistrad (SOI block), Kaladesh (KLD block) and Amonkhet (AKH block), which are the last 4, not 5. Out of those 4, the only story he got a new card in was SOI block. Also, since when does the number of stories one shows up in dictate how likable they are?
Also, Jace being on Ixalan doesn't necessarily stop the story from being about Vraska.
Jace's Vryn plotline is still ripe for the picking, so I reckon he'll be a part of the story at least until that is resolved.
He's not thousands of years old. Not even close. This Jace hater should actually do his research on the character he's hating.
^ as someone who doesn't care for Taigam or Tarkir
^ as someone who doesn't care for Cats either.
^as someone who doesn't care for Vampires. I know elsewhere I've stated I'm happy for Taigam and Vampire fans being vocal and heard.
I'm critical when Return sets do a second round of cards for characters that have them instead of those that didn't twice. And if Jenrik were so obscure, he wouldn't have been mentioned in several Magic Story articles, quoted on cards, and killed on-screen. He's even in the artwork of Tamiyo's journal. He should have gotten a card in the return. I don't think any cardless characters from Innistrad did, actually. It's a valid reason to be critical. WOTC claims they want their returns to cover new grounds, but just ended up killing off characters and drastically changing the theme of its planes rather than giving other characters some time to shine.
Since Commander products are the only place left we can expect those characters, it bothers me when we get new, made-up, generic legends like Anya over Feather. Because we're always getting new Legends, so why here too?
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I know that Ludevic got a card in C16 and Edgar is getting a card in C17, but Ludevic's card was far and away from what one would expect from a premier alchemist and skaberen.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
JundBGR
RW Blood MoonRW
Pauper
Delver U
Elves G
Control B
Commander
Edgar Markov BRW
Captain Sisay GW
Niv-Mizzet, Parun UR
Tymna and Ravos WB
I think that the point was less about you always being critical of new products and more about you letting the presence or absence of a very specific fictional character dictate your opinion on an entire product.
Fun fact: characters with cards generally have way more fans than characters without card. WotC didn't want to piss off tens of thousands of people by not printing a new Avacyn or Thalia or Olivia Voldaren. However, they weren't overly concerned with pissing off one person by not making a Jenrik card. Crazy, right?
Several? It was like two stories, max.
You do realize that the vast majority of flavor text characters are never even considered for cards of their own, right?
No, he wasn't. Jenrik died offscreen. He was killed by Nahiri before the story where Jace finds his remains.
Unless you look up the full artwork online, which most players never will, only his petrified hands are visable.
Your opinion is not objective fact no matter how many times you repeat it.
Ulrich says hi.
For them not making more cards for cardless characters in return sets in general? Sure. For them not making a card for one extremely specific and relatively obscure character that you chose to obsess over? No.
Which they did.
You say that like it's a bad thing. In a violence-centric story for a violence-centric game, it would be weird if they never killed off any characters.
Going from 100% gothic horror to a mix of gothic horror and cosmic horror is not a very drastic theme change, and it will likely be reversed next time we return to Innistrad anyway.
This is the exact reason why many people are unhappy to see Jace take a leading role yet again. Tell me, why is it ok for a prominent character you like to steal attention from minor characters you don't care about but not ok for prominent characters you don't care about to steal attention from a minor character you like?
Anyways back on topic, what races do you all think we going to see in Ixalan? From the leaks we know;
Humans WUBRG
Dinosaurs RGW
VampiresWB
MerfolkGU
but that still leaves holes. Also be interesting to see if this is the first dragonless plane (unless you could Lorwyn and Tarkir)since this is plane is focused on Dinos (also making hydras odd to put in...unless...dinosaur hydra?!), as well as no angels since it doesn't mesh with Mesoamerica but then there is Kaladesh and Amonkhet so...
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Considering you used a blatantly false claim about Jace's age range as part of your justification, it would have made you appear less ignorant if you at least knew that he's pretty young.
Because the character that I like "stealing attention" (hardly objective) is the most popular Planeswalker of all.
Who is a Gatewatch member.
In the Gatewatch era.
Who isn't "stealing attention" from anyone.
Who hasn't had a prominent role in the story since SOI.
You know, since you care about facts. If you have problems with the new story model, don't lay that burden on Jace or undermine the actual facts - he's #1, he's been scarce, and he's in the Gatewatch. All we even know about him is he's getting a card BTW - of which he only has one in standard while other GW members have SIX. Considering how much complaining I'm seeing about me complaining, it's amusing to see you complain about me not complaining this time.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
RWU
GUB
WBR
URG
BGW
To be honest when they write Liliana well (which I think is a good 90% of the time (there are times where she acts like a teenage girl and I enjoyed the story about the fight with her and Rakaketh until the part where she ate him)) she is my favorite character. Everybody views her as betraying them (which I guess she openly told Bolas they'd meet up later) but they were just too eager and they didn't seem willing to listen to Ajani who has actually fought Bolas and gotten away with it and Lilly who has worked for him before. I was actually sad for her as she pleaded with them to go with her. So it would be interesting to see if she is really going to rejoin them, Bolas, or go her own way.
You know those characters from Innistrad who already had cards? The ones you think shouldn't have gotten new cards in SOI block? They hadn't gotten cards since the original Innistrad. So Jace absolutely needs a new card after a year and a half but those characters didn't deserve to get their second cards after four years?
I admit that Jace is more popular than characters he is theoretically taking the place of. But guess what? Avacyn, Sigarda, Bruna, Gisela, Odric, Thalia, Olivia, Geralf, and Gisa are each way more popular than Jenrik. Why does popularity justify Jace getting a card but not those other characters?
Ok, so a Gatewatch member makes sense in a leading role. But the aforementioned popular legendary creatures are iconic Innistrad characters. In a Return to Innistrad set. It makes sense for them to get new legendary creature cards by the same logic. Far more so than it does for Jenrik.
If he's the main protagonist, then someone else isn't. If Jace wasn't in the block, then Vraska or Ajani or the new planeswalker could have been the main protagonist. Now they're all going to be side characters. I'd call that stealing attention.
Depends on how you define "prominent". Even in blocks where he isn't represented by a card, he gets way more focus in the story than 90% of the legendary creatures in the block. He's been less prominent than other planeswalkers in the Gatewatch, but you can't deny that he's still been quite prominent.
I just think it's ironic for someone to make completely, objectively false statements relating to a character they've obsessed over for years. "Jenrik died onscreen." Are you kidding me?
I do, but even if I liked the story model and I liked Jace I would still be exhausted by your constant complaining about Jenrik and think that it isn't remotely justified. And I would still notice the hypocrisy of how your complaints about Jenrik completely contradict your position on Jace.
Yes, he's the most popular planeswalker. I know that. I never tried to "undermine" that fact.
Yet I still don't understand how Jace taking priority over other characters is justified by his popularity but popular legendary creatures on Innistrad taking priority over Jenrik is not.
He's about to appear in his FIFTH (sixth counting Origins) consecutive storyline. Scarce my ass.
The only possible way he's been scarce has been on how many cards he's gotten recently (not story appearances) and even then only relative to most ridiculously prolific characters in the game. Compared to any other character, he's been doing pretty damn well for himself.
Once again, I know that and I never disputed it.
If you think that there's even a 1% chance of him not being the main character, you're kidding yourself. Read the art book description. Or look at any other block in which Jace has gotten a card within the past few years. We all know that he's going to be the main character. Again.
This is a problem with how they've been representing the other Gatewatch planeswalkers, not with how they've been representing Jace. 1-3 planeswalker cards per Gatewatch member in Standard is reasonable; 5-6 is not. Jace is the actually only one who's had an acceptable number of cards recently.
And yes, after Ixalan Jace will still have a pretty reasonable number of cards, especially compared to the rest of the Gatewatch. Let me be clear: I'm not disputing whether or not Jace's presence makes sense or not. Given the way they've been doing things recently (regardless of whether or not I agree with it), it's not a surprise at all to see Jace on Ixalan. I'm not arguing that.
What I am arguing is that your argument for why Jace is ok on Ixalan and your argument for why Jenrik should have gotten a card completely contradict each other.
In both cases, it's an issue of whether or not established, popular, well-developed major characters should be given cards and story importance rather than less popular, less-developed minor characters. There's a good argument to be made for both sides, so I would be fine if you consistently supported one side or the other. But you don't. When you like the major character, you take the side of major characters. When you like the minor character, you take the side of the minor characters. It's inconsistent and hypocritical.
You are so obviously biased towards certain characters that you completely contradict yourself. It's difficult to take you seriously when you talk about what's justified and what isn't because I know that you'll change sides once something you like is on the opposite side.
Oh, I'm not complaining about you not complaining. You're thinking of someone else. I'm definitely one of the people complaining about your complaining. I thought it was pretty clear.