Eminence tied to a legendary who is also an avatar to a tribe makes sense and is cohesive in card design. Not doing so is more baffling as what makes 50% of the face legendarys (Cat and Dragon) so important that they get to be avatars but the other half (Vampires and ???) are not as important to be avatars to their respective tribes. That is the reason they would need it.
Especially with Edgar Markov who started the Vampire lines in the first place on Innistrad. That he was the first of the Vampires on Innistrad. He is effectively the Adam of his kind. If that doesn't make a Vampire an Avatar, I don't know what would.
*Sigh* This is what I'm talking about with having to repeat myself.
Just last year, only 3 out of the 5 face commanders were human. 2 out of 5 were from Alara. 2 out of 5 had keyword mechanics from old blocks.
In C15, only 3 of the 5 face commanders triggered off of casting spells of a certain type. Of those, two also cared about the spell's CMC.
In C14, only 3 of the 5 'walker commanders produced an emblem for their ult.
In C13, only 3 of the 5 face commanders got an effect that was boosted by the commander tax.
Flavor is extremely malleable in terms of using it to justify mechanics. Being an avatar is an easy way to justify eminence, but it's hardly the only or best way. For example, Edgar Markov is the first and oldest vampire on Innistrad. He created the race. There's not a single person, vampire or otherwise, on the entire plane who doesn't know who he is. Giving him eminence would represent the fact that he commands immense respect, and his influence can be felt everywhere on Innistrad, whether he's present or not.
Furthermore, being an avatar doesn't automatically make one more "important" than a non-avatar. And anyway, there aren't any rules for what constitutes an avatar in Magic. Razia was the first angel on Ravnica, but she wasn't an avatar.
It's worth noting that Avatars in Magic are a projection of a greater force (just like they are in Hindu mythology). An avatar might be part of a god, but not the god itself, especially when the god isn't a physical being like they are on, say, Amonkhet.
*Sigh* This is what I'm talking about with having to repeat myself.
Then let those people talk and stop responding. You had your say, let people have theirs and stop *****ting on them they disagree with your guesses and you have just as much evidence as they do which is zero.
Furthermore, being an avatar doesn't automatically make one more "important" than a non-avatar. And anyway, there aren't any rules for what constitutes an avatar in Magic. Razia was the first angel on Ravnica, but she wasn't an avatar.
Avatars tend to be the Living Incarnation of something so while they may not be more "Important" than other characters they are something that tend represent a primal idea.
Just last year, only 3 out of the 5 face commanders were human. 2 out of 5 were from Alara. 2 out of 5 had keyword mechanics from old blocks.
In C15, only 3 of the 5 face commanders triggered off of casting spells of a certain type. Of those, two also cared about the spell's CMC.
In C14, only 3 of the 5 'walker commanders produced an emblem for their ult.
In C13, only 3 of the 5 face commanders got an effect that was boosted by the commander tax.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
I can twist the statistics for Commander products in the same way and disprove your point.
C11, Each face-commander was Wedge and was accompanied by two other wedge commanders for each deck.
C13, Each of the five face-commanders utilized Commander Tax in a beneficial manner and included two other shard commanders for each deck.
C14, Each face-commander was a mono-colored planeswalker that included two mono-colored legendarys.
C15, Each face-commander was an enemy colored legendary that utilized experience counters in different manners and included two other dual-colored legends.
C16, Each face-commander was four colored and that each deck included also three dual-colored legendarys with the partner mechanic.
Therefore: Each C17 face-commander will have a cohesive theme and mechanic (avatar, tribe and eminence) while also including two legendarys of the same color (Dragons = Ramos, Dragon Engine and O-Kagachi).
its such a generic god damned tribe why even bother.
no seriously. why make a shapeshifter tribe when shapeshifters can be in literally any tribe given their history in magic? no think about. actually stop and think about it. get out of your pipe dream for a minute and stop and think about why this is an absolutely stupid idea. not just absurd. stupid. here's a tribe that is historically every tribe so in precons that are tribal in nature we're going to give you a tribe thats every and any tribe? why. bother. why even bother?
its such a generic god damned tribe why even bother.
no seriously. why make a shapeshifter tribe when shapeshifters can be in literally any tribe given their history in magic? no think about. actually stop and think about it. get out of your pipe dream for a minute and stop and think about why this is an absolutely stupid idea. not just absurd. stupid. here's a tribe that is historically every tribe so in precons that are tribal in nature we're going to give you a tribe thats every and any tribe? why. bother. why even bother?
the logic in this place sometimes i swear to god.
I'm not certain why this theory has upset you this much, but it's just that, a theory. None of us know until something else gets leaked, so we're just passing the time, good ideas or not. The guys in the background looked strange was all, which probably has more to do with lazy design than anything. The Dimir guild had a shapeshifting sub-subtheme is all, nothing to insult people over or get that angry about imo
because its a bull***** theory and you guys live in some kind of weird bubble where logic doesn't exist and then get angry when you don't get your way, but only after 10 pages of discussion on how valid it is.
i said it once years ago; mtg:s where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello. it remains true to this day.
edit: based on the art my money is on cleric. its a tribe thats established across a fairly decent spectrum already with potent cards that already exist. short of that, no one has suggested it with any consistency, soldiers
but sure as ***** not shapeshifters because literally why even bother. they don't need to be a tribe. they're already every tribe.
because its a bull***** theory and you guys live in some kind of weird bubble where logic doesn't exist and then get angry when you don't get your way, but only after 10 pages of discussion on how valid it is.
i said it once years ago; mtg:s where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello. it remains true to this day.
For the sake of trying to keep this going in a positive forward direction, given the pictures we have, what is your theory? I'll give you shapeshifter is a "pipedream", absolutely, so please let us know what you think.
Edit: Saw your edit. Human clerics I assume? If so, they seem the most logical of the continuing cleric/wizard/rogue debate.
because its a bull***** theory and you guys live in some kind of weird bubble where logic doesn't exist and then get angry when you don't get your way, but only after 10 pages of discussion on how valid it is.
i said it once years ago; mtg:s where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello. it remains true to this day.
For the sake of trying to keep this going in a positive forward direction, given the pictures we have, what is your theory? I'll give you shapeshifter is a "pipedream", absolutely, so please let us know what you think.
Edit: Saw your edit. Human clerics I assume? If so, they seem the most logical of the continuing cleric/wizard/rogue debate.
wizards have a solid tribal already in azami, rogues aren't prolific enough, clerics is gonna be it.
edit: in addition look at the art. you have a character gilt in gold with figures standing behind it in a pose of worship. what the **** about that says shapeshifter? what about that says rogue? rogues are generally associated with stealth and daring and doing it from behind. what about this says wizard which says mysticism and magic? everything about this art says cleric, and very very fringe valorous soldier that the rest of the army worships. but thats the key bit here. worship. thats what the artconveys.
Azami is the best wizard commander absolutely, I think peoples argument for grixis wizards was the inclusion of other stuff, but I'm not a fan of that personally.
Rogues would require a lot of cards to make them work, so I'm also not a fan of them either. If it is only Dimir, this is one of the only "real" choices imo.
Cleric does make the most sense, especially since wizards doesn't need to make a whole lot of necessarily new things for it. Of the logical guesses, cleric does make the most sense, especially if it is Esper.
Edit: The guys around her looked lazily similar, which brought up the theory that they were clones, which led to the possibility of shapeshifter. Also, Lazav hasn't revealed their "true form" to anyone, so the conspiracy theory moved from there. Rogue theory came from the fact that they were wearing cowls, and that if it wasn't Esper then one of the prevalent "classes" in Dimir was rogue. Wizard came from someone claiming they saw the box being grixis colors, something I personally didn't believe but as we don't know a whole lot, it has been kicked around now and again.
Cripes, what if we had suggested Spellshapers? I think we found the Pepsi-Mento in this topic, folks. At any rate, it wasn't a completely left-field suggestion since most of the game's notableShapeshifters fall into UB colors. Lashing out at folks will just get you ignored and/or modded. At the very least, it looks pathetic getting angry at people speculating on a forum about a card game.
I still favor Wizard or Rogue. My inclination is that the woman is some manner of archmage, befitting the Eminence ability she'll have. I don't see anything Clerical going on; the men look like they're kneeling to her, not some Angel or Demon, and since she'll presumably have Eminence it makes sense that she's the focus of their respect in the picture.
No, color is not absolute, but there's a reason why a lot of green Beasts are green, or why most Angels wear a lot of white. We're seeing art indicative of UB, so UB is the most sensible suggestion. There might be some white in there as well, but as others have said that would possibly result in all four decks being part white, provided the Vampire deck is Mardu as most of us are hoping.
Call me crazy, but I suspect this woman and her entourage might hail from Vryn. Perhaps they are one of the two factions fighting over the mage rings? Something about her facial markings reminds me of Jace. Of course, they also remind me of Yawgmoth's Helmet, but the chances of Phyrexia playing into the deck are slim at best.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
It's worth noting that Avatars in Magic are a projection of a greater force (just like they are in Hindu mythology). An avatar might be part of a god, but not the god itself, especially when the god isn't a physical being like they are on, say, Amonkhet.
Then let those people talk and stop responding. You had your say, let people have theirs and stop *****ting on them they disagree with your guesses
So it's okay for other people to speculate but, not me? 'Kay, thanks.
And pointing out logical flaws is hardly "*****ting on" people. If you can't handle people commenting on gaps in your logic, then, well, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
and you have just as much evidence as they do which is zero.
Just because you ignore the evidence I've presented, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Edgar Markov really isn't an avatar; we've had progenitors of entire races before in Magic, and they weren't avatars.
Two data points isn't enough to establish any patterns.
Avatars tend to be the Living Incarnation of something so while they may not be more "Important" than other characters they are something that tend represent a primal idea.
And your point is? That's still not what Edgar Markov is, and eminence still doesn't have to be tied to a specific creature type.
Just last year, only 3 out of the 5 face commanders were human. 2 out of 5 were from Alara. 2 out of 5 had keyword mechanics from old blocks.
In C15, only 3 of the 5 face commanders triggered off of casting spells of a certain type. Of those, two also cared about the spell's CMC.
In C14, only 3 of the 5 'walker commanders produced an emblem for their ult.
In C13, only 3 of the 5 face commanders got an effect that was boosted by the commander tax.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
I can twist the statistics for Commander products in the same way and disprove your point.
C11, Each face-commander was Wedge and was accompanied by two other wedge commanders for each deck.
C13, Each of the five face-commanders utilized Commander Tax in a beneficial manner and included two other shard commanders for each deck.
C14, Each face-commander was a mono-colored planeswalker that included two mono-colored legendarys.
C15, Each face-commander was an enemy colored legendary that utilized experience counters in different manners and included two other dual-colored legends.
C16, Each face-commander was four colored and that each deck included also three dual-colored legendarys with the partner mechanic.
Therefore: Each C17 face-commander will have a cohesive theme and mechanic (avatar, tribe and eminence) while also including two legendarys of the same color (Dragons = Ramos, Dragon Engine and O-Kagachi).
You're missing the point: none of the statistics you mention negate the point I was making with the statistics I was mentioning; just because the cycles of commanders follow some patterns, doesn't mean everything about them is part of a pattern. Yes, every commander in C13 played around with the command zone in a new way, but Prossh, Jeleva, and Marath followed a pattern, while Derevi and Oloro broke that pattern. When Prossh and then Jeleva were first spoiled, many (myself included, I'll admit) assumed that all five commanders would have a scaling effect based on how much you paid for them. But we were wrong, because not every cycle of cards follows a strict pattern. The C15 commanders were all colored with enemy pairs, and they all dealt with experience, but everything else could vary, from their creature types, to how they gained and used experience. The same goes for every other commander release; the generals all have one or two mechanical things in common, and the rest varies.
I'm still curious to see if we see a reprint of Reflecting Pool or Mana Confluence in the commander 2017 series. Also, will we finally see reprints of the utility lands from Ravnica?
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Going by that sorcery-looking circle, pretty safe to say it's Grixis Wizards. Here's hoping the abilities are interesting, though not sure what I'd want with how general wizard abilities seem to be, especially on legendary creatures.
If you are responding to the person that posted about Mana Confluence and Reflecting Pool. They are not all that expensive with Pool at about $8-$9 and Confluence at $5-$6.
I have to agree that Edgar Markov being an avatar doesn't make much sense.
He was a human and became a vampire pretty much at the same time as the other heads of the houses. In the lore he pretty much became a respected and feared character, like he was some kind of king, but yet I don't see him as the incarnation of all that is vampire, but more like "I'm the first vampire and everyone fears me, even when I'm not around!" kind of thing.
As for the wizardess, she doesn't seem to have any kind of otherworldly feature like the avarats from Lorwyn\Shadowmoor or the tribal avatars in Onslaught like Nameless One.
Doesn't seem to be the incarnation of an idea or a concept either like avatar of will.
Neither she seems a worldsoul like Soul of Ravnica.
So... Why should she be an avatar?
Ok, there are examples of avatars that look exactly like people (Autumn willow and Daughter of Autumn for example), yet in those cases the creature type is kind of controversial as it was added only later during the creature type revolution.
So it's okay for other people to speculate but, not me? 'Kay, thanks.
And pointing out logical flaws is hardly "*****ting on" people. If you can't handle people commenting on gaps in your logic, then, well, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
It is fine for you to speculate but saying how much it sucks to have to repeat your self when someone brings up the idea of 4 avatars isn't speculation it is just being a jerk.
Acting like your "Speculation" is so much more valid than others is in fact *****ting on people. There is no Logical flaw in
"Hey we got 2 Avatars with Eminence, WOTC likes patterns so the other 2 might be Avatars with eminence." The key word there is might.
Just because you ignore the evidence I've presented, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Edgar Markov really isn't an avatar; we've had progenitors of entire races before in Magic, and they weren't avatars.
Two data points isn't enough to establish any patterns.
"But they might not." isn't evidence. Magic going back to it's very first set has tended to do things in groups, Ancestral Recall was part of a cycle.
And your point is? That's still not what Edgar Markov is, and eminence still doesn't have to be tied to a specific creature type.
And your point is? Edgar Markov might not be the "Central card" of the deck. We have no real evidence that the guy on the Banner is Edgar Markov, after all he is a bit of a small fry to really be headlining a tribe in terms of importance on a Planar level. He affected one plane. It would be a little underwhelming if we get 2 beings that are a multi-planar concept like Ur-dragon and Arahbo seem to be, of course they could pull a Fast one and Make him an Avatar cause he was the first guy who did the Ritual.
You're missing the point: none of the statistics you mention negate the point I was making with the statistics I was mentioning; just because the cycles of commanders follow some patterns, doesn't mean everything about them is part of a pattern. Yes, every commander in C13 played around with the command zone in a new way, but Prossh, Jeleva, and Marath followed a pattern, while Derevi and Oloro broke that pattern. When Prossh and then Jeleva were first spoiled, many (myself included, I'll admit) assumed that all five commanders would have a scaling effect based on how much you paid for them. But we were wrong, because not every cycle of cards follows a strict pattern. The C15 commanders were all colored with enemy pairs, and they all dealt with experience, but everything else could vary, from their creature types, to how they gained and used experience. The same goes for every other commander release; the generals all have one or two mechanical things in common, and the rest varies.
And you are missing everyone else's point that just because they did something odd once doesn't mean they will do it again especially considering they have a far larger history of following design patterns in the new commander cards than not, pointing out that "The experience commanders." did different things based on their experience counters doesn't change that they were a cycle of Enemy Colored commanders that used their experience counters to follow the themes of their colors.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
It's definitively not clerics (as much as I want it to be), and it doesn't read like rogues or wizards would. And the image has similarities to the Vesuvan shapeshifters (check out this image from Sarpadian Empires). Outside of it being some other viking thing, Vesuvan shapeshifter makes the most sense.
And man, it's a tribal theme, but it makes absolutely no sense why a type that could be any tribe would get put in there. Sure, lol. They definitely haven't done that in Tribal-centric sets, right?
"I don't like it therefore it is illogical" isn't a really compelling argument.
It's definitively not clerics (as much as I want it to be), and it doesn't read like rogues or wizards would. And the image has similarities to the Vesuvan shapeshifters (check out this image from Sarpadian Empires). Outside of it being some other viking thing, Vesuvan shapeshifter makes the most sense.
And man, it's a tribal theme, but it makes absolutely no sense why a type that could be any tribe would get put in there. Sure, lol. They definitely haven't done that in Tribal-centric sets, right?
"I don't like it therefore it is illogical" isn't a really compelling argument.
That link is the best argument for shapeshifters yet, nice find! At this point, I think the thread has boiled it down to clerics/wizards/shapeshifters as the things we would all like to see. Now watch MTG print a deck of Esper Humans like others have suggested haha
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Furthermore, being an avatar doesn't automatically make one more "important" than a non-avatar. And anyway, there aren't any rules for what constitutes an avatar in Magic. Razia was the first angel on Ravnica, but she wasn't an avatar.
Edit: Weird quoting.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Then let those people talk and stop responding. You had your say, let people have theirs and stop *****ting on them they disagree with your guesses and you have just as much evidence as they do which is zero.
Avatars tend to be the Living Incarnation of something so while they may not be more "Important" than other characters they are something that tend represent a primal idea.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
I can twist the statistics for Commander products in the same way and disprove your point.
C11, Each face-commander was Wedge and was accompanied by two other wedge commanders for each deck.
C13, Each of the five face-commanders utilized Commander Tax in a beneficial manner and included two other shard commanders for each deck.
C14, Each face-commander was a mono-colored planeswalker that included two mono-colored legendarys.
C15, Each face-commander was an enemy colored legendary that utilized experience counters in different manners and included two other dual-colored legends.
C16, Each face-commander was four colored and that each deck included also three dual-colored legendarys with the partner mechanic.
Therefore: Each C17 face-commander will have a cohesive theme and mechanic (avatar, tribe and eminence) while also including two legendarys of the same color (Dragons = Ramos, Dragon Engine and O-Kagachi).
its such a generic god damned tribe why even bother.
no seriously. why make a shapeshifter tribe when shapeshifters can be in literally any tribe given their history in magic? no think about. actually stop and think about it. get out of your pipe dream for a minute and stop and think about why this is an absolutely stupid idea. not just absurd. stupid. here's a tribe that is historically every tribe so in precons that are tribal in nature we're going to give you a tribe thats every and any tribe? why. bother. why even bother?
the logic in this place sometimes i swear to god.
I'm not certain why this theory has upset you this much, but it's just that, a theory. None of us know until something else gets leaked, so we're just passing the time, good ideas or not. The guys in the background looked strange was all, which probably has more to do with lazy design than anything. The Dimir guild had a shapeshifting sub-subtheme is all, nothing to insult people over or get that angry about imo
i said it once years ago; mtg:s where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello. it remains true to this day.
edit: based on the art my money is on cleric. its a tribe thats established across a fairly decent spectrum already with potent cards that already exist. short of that, no one has suggested it with any consistency, soldiers
but sure as ***** not shapeshifters because literally why even bother. they don't need to be a tribe. they're already every tribe.
For the sake of trying to keep this going in a positive forward direction, given the pictures we have, what is your theory? I'll give you shapeshifter is a "pipedream", absolutely, so please let us know what you think.
Edit: Saw your edit. Human clerics I assume? If so, they seem the most logical of the continuing cleric/wizard/rogue debate.
wizards have a solid tribal already in azami, rogues aren't prolific enough, clerics is gonna be it.
edit: in addition look at the art. you have a character gilt in gold with figures standing behind it in a pose of worship. what the **** about that says shapeshifter? what about that says rogue? rogues are generally associated with stealth and daring and doing it from behind. what about this says wizard which says mysticism and magic? everything about this art says cleric, and very very fringe valorous soldier that the rest of the army worships. but thats the key bit here. worship. thats what the artconveys.
Rogues would require a lot of cards to make them work, so I'm also not a fan of them either. If it is only Dimir, this is one of the only "real" choices imo.
Cleric does make the most sense, especially since wizards doesn't need to make a whole lot of necessarily new things for it. Of the logical guesses, cleric does make the most sense, especially if it is Esper.
Edit: The guys around her looked lazily similar, which brought up the theory that they were clones, which led to the possibility of shapeshifter. Also, Lazav hasn't revealed their "true form" to anyone, so the conspiracy theory moved from there. Rogue theory came from the fact that they were wearing cowls, and that if it wasn't Esper then one of the prevalent "classes" in Dimir was rogue. Wizard came from someone claiming they saw the box being grixis colors, something I personally didn't believe but as we don't know a whole lot, it has been kicked around now and again.
I still favor Wizard or Rogue. My inclination is that the woman is some manner of archmage, befitting the Eminence ability she'll have. I don't see anything Clerical going on; the men look like they're kneeling to her, not some Angel or Demon, and since she'll presumably have Eminence it makes sense that she's the focus of their respect in the picture.
No, color is not absolute, but there's a reason why a lot of green Beasts are green, or why most Angels wear a lot of white. We're seeing art indicative of UB, so UB is the most sensible suggestion. There might be some white in there as well, but as others have said that would possibly result in all four decks being part white, provided the Vampire deck is Mardu as most of us are hoping.
Call me crazy, but I suspect this woman and her entourage might hail from Vryn. Perhaps they are one of the two factions fighting over the mage rings? Something about her facial markings reminds me of Jace. Of course, they also remind me of Yawgmoth's Helmet, but the chances of Phyrexia playing into the deck are slim at best.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Dragons is why they had to do five-color because of scion of the Ur-dragon which is one of the reprints.
Agreed, this commander set was their chance to do some crazier things without being locked into colors for sure.
So it's okay for other people to speculate but, not me? 'Kay, thanks.
And pointing out logical flaws is hardly "*****ting on" people. If you can't handle people commenting on gaps in your logic, then, well, I honestly don't know what to tell you.
Just because you ignore the evidence I've presented, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Edgar Markov really isn't an avatar; we've had progenitors of entire races before in Magic, and they weren't avatars.
Two data points isn't enough to establish any patterns.
And your point is? That's still not what Edgar Markov is, and eminence still doesn't have to be tied to a specific creature type.
You're missing the point: none of the statistics you mention negate the point I was making with the statistics I was mentioning; just because the cycles of commanders follow some patterns, doesn't mean everything about them is part of a pattern. Yes, every commander in C13 played around with the command zone in a new way, but Prossh, Jeleva, and Marath followed a pattern, while Derevi and Oloro broke that pattern. When Prossh and then Jeleva were first spoiled, many (myself included, I'll admit) assumed that all five commanders would have a scaling effect based on how much you paid for them. But we were wrong, because not every cycle of cards follows a strict pattern. The C15 commanders were all colored with enemy pairs, and they all dealt with experience, but everything else could vary, from their creature types, to how they gained and used experience. The same goes for every other commander release; the generals all have one or two mechanical things in common, and the rest varies.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Supposedly she is named "Inala, Archmage Ritualist".
All of these fit my wife's style more than mine...
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
If you are responding to the person that posted about Mana Confluence and Reflecting Pool. They are not all that expensive with Pool at about $8-$9 and Confluence at $5-$6.
With them putting out Forbidden Orchard last year and Reliquary Tower being put out multiple times, with both being $4-$5, it's not too hard to expect dragons to have Reflecting Pool and/or any other land(s) like City of Brass/Mana Confluence/Grand Coliseum.
From what I was reading, she is a Human Wizard. So not all of them are avatars if the person was telling the truth.
It is fine for you to speculate but saying how much it sucks to have to repeat your self when someone brings up the idea of 4 avatars isn't speculation it is just being a jerk.
Acting like your "Speculation" is so much more valid than others is in fact *****ting on people. There is no Logical flaw in
"Hey we got 2 Avatars with Eminence, WOTC likes patterns so the other 2 might be Avatars with eminence." The key word there is might.
"But they might not." isn't evidence. Magic going back to it's very first set has tended to do things in groups, Ancestral Recall was part of a cycle.
And your point is? Edgar Markov might not be the "Central card" of the deck. We have no real evidence that the guy on the Banner is Edgar Markov, after all he is a bit of a small fry to really be headlining a tribe in terms of importance on a Planar level. He affected one plane. It would be a little underwhelming if we get 2 beings that are a multi-planar concept like Ur-dragon and Arahbo seem to be, of course they could pull a Fast one and Make him an Avatar cause he was the first guy who did the Ritual.
And you are missing everyone else's point that just because they did something odd once doesn't mean they will do it again especially considering they have a far larger history of following design patterns in the new commander cards than not, pointing out that "The experience commanders." did different things based on their experience counters doesn't change that they were a cycle of Enemy Colored commanders that used their experience counters to follow the themes of their colors.
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
And man, it's a tribal theme, but it makes absolutely no sense why a type that could be any tribe would get put in there. Sure, lol. They definitely haven't done that in Tribal-centric sets, right?
"I don't like it therefore it is illogical" isn't a really compelling argument.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
That link is the best argument for shapeshifters yet, nice find! At this point, I think the thread has boiled it down to clerics/wizards/shapeshifters as the things we would all like to see. Now watch MTG print a deck of Esper Humans like others have suggested haha