People saying there are tons of answers to planeswalkers:
Planeswalkers make you discard those answers.
Planeswalkers make you sacrifice, destroy, bounce or otherwise remove the creatures that could remove them.
Planeswalkers being removed by counterspells is a bit of a nonanswer, as counterspells answer everything and are, in and of themsvelves, a very, very broken mechanic.
They are strong and yes, that strength can be quite meta-dependent but you need to deal with them right away, and if you do so, you are using an answer that cannot be sent to another permanent (your bolt can't hit a creature). It's too much. They have needed a Null Rod for 'walkers forever. It should have been done almost immediately after the Planeswalker card type occurred, but they just let them gain more and more power and traction. This costs 6 so it's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. Hopefully they hinder 'walkers more in the future, it's needed and warranted.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
I wonder what your EDH meta looks like that a spell reducing, card drawing anthem would see zero play.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I wonder what your EDH meta looks like that a spell reducing, card drawing anthem would see zero play.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Am I the only one who thinks the Immortal Sun is boring? It's just another one of those "do a bunch of little things that are good but not unique" cards. It's a good cars but it's just kinda "meh", especially for something called the Immortal Sun.
I wonder what your EDH meta looks like that a spell reducing, card drawing anthem would see zero play.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
Depends a bit on the decks brought to the table, but I'd say roughly turn 10 is a good estimation, or at least that's when it's clear who wins.
Competitive EDH is things like Tazri Food Chain, Sidisi Ad Nauseam, etc. Decks that win by T2/3/4.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I wonder what your EDH meta looks like that a spell reducing, card drawing anthem would see zero play.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
Depends a bit on the decks brought to the table, but I'd say roughly turn 10 is a good estimation, or at least that's when it's clear who wins.
Competitive EDH is things like Tazri Food Chain, Sidisi Ad Nauseam, etc. Decks that win by T2/3/4.
I would say your meta falls under "competitive" while AN or HD decks fall under "hyper-competitive".
10 turns for a 4-player game is still blazingly fast.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I wonder what your EDH meta looks like that a spell reducing, card drawing anthem would see zero play.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
I typically do not play competitive EDH, which I believe is a turn 2-4 format. My games usually go much longer. Games rarely end before the 10th turn, I'd say. I'm going to go through the abilities of the card one by one.
1. Planeswalkers can't activate abilities. Planeswalkers die very easily in EDH. I play a lot of them in Maelstrom Wanderer, but they are purely there for value. They net me mana. If I am activating other abilities, it is because I have nothing to do. I play planeswalkers in control decks, where they dodge wipes and help me grind out an advantage. The thing is, the planeswalkers are easy to deal with if anybody wants to. Planeswalkers rarely make it around the table unless I am way ahead of my opponents.
For my opponents playing planeswalkers, it is the same thing. Even a dedicated superfriends deck is pretty mediocre to me.
Conclusion: I do not expect the card to see play for the first ability, which is negligible in 99% of my games.
2. Draw an extra card at your draw step. Ouf, I hate this. I've been playing with Necropotence more lately, and I dislike that the extra card is during your draw step. Still, in a black deck, this is not being played over the other options. Not being played in blue, where there are a million cards that give you a better rate. White? Red? Maybe.. Red has the Chandras which do pretty well. But if we just look at colorless options.. Staff of Nin is pretty good though. There's also Coercive Portal, Endbringer, Mind's Eye, Sea Gate Wreckage, Tamiyo's Journal and all the symmetrical effects.
So, I could see this being played for the card draw, but it is not a unique effect. If you want to get the advantage earlier, you are looking at something symmetrical. If you want to grind it out, is it better than the other options? Depends on the deck. I feel like I'd rather the other cards I mentioned, but it depends on the deck.
3. Your spells cost 1 less. It's like a bad ramp spell. When you staple this to a 2CMC creature, like Herald of the Pantheon or Goblin Electromancer or Etherium Sculptor, then it can be very powerful. When this is stapled to a 6 mana spell, it is a lot less impressive.
4. The anthem: if your deck wants to go wide, choose a cheaper anthem and get in the beats early. If you are not going wide, then you don't care about this effect.
So, if I ignore the first and fourth abilities, which I do not expect to be important in the decks that would play this card, the card is a 6CMC spell that draws you an extra card per turn and reduces the cost of your spells by one. Some decks will want this. Aggro decks? No, they don't want 6CMC spells that do nothing. Combo decks? They have 2CMC cards to build their combos around, and will take symmetrical card draw to get the early win. Control decks are the only home for this card. But not any control - control decks not playing blue or black, and not playing planeswalkers.
This is why I do not expect this card to see much play. The mana cost is too high for its effects. There are more powerful cards at 6 mana. I'm not even sure Staff of Nin is that good... but if you animate it and give it deathtouch it can be gross.
Anyway, that's my opinion of this card. Cool card. Happy they made it. But not good enough at anything to be played very much in commander. Some play, sure.
I wonder what your EDH meta looks like that a spell reducing, card drawing anthem would see zero play.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
I typically do not play competitive EDH, which I believe is a turn 2-4 format. My games usually go much longer. Games rarely end before the 10th turn, I'd say. I'm going to go through the abilities of the card one by one.
1. Planeswalkers can't activate abilities. Planeswalkers die very easily in EDH. I play a lot of them in Maelstrom Wanderer, but they are purely there for value. They net me mana. If I am activating other abilities, it is because I have nothing to do. I play planeswalkers in control decks, where they dodge wipes and help me grind out an advantage. The thing is, the planeswalkers are easy to deal with if anybody wants to. Planeswalkers rarely make it around the table unless I am way ahead of my opponents.
For my opponents playing planeswalkers, it is the same thing. Even a dedicated superfriends deck is pretty mediocre to me.
Conclusion: I do not expect the card to see play for the first ability, which is negligible in 99% of my games.
2. Draw an extra card at your draw step. Ouf, I hate this. I've been playing with Necropotence more lately, and I dislike that the extra card is during your draw step. Still, in a black deck, this is not being played over the other options. Not being played in blue, where there are a million cards that give you a better rate. White? Red? Maybe.. Red has the Chandras which do pretty well. But if we just look at colorless options.. Staff of Nin is pretty good though. There's also Coercive Portal, Endbringer, Mind's Eye, Sea Gate Wreckage, Tamiyo's Journal and all the symmetrical effects.
So, I could see this being played for the card draw, but it is not a unique effect. If you want to get the advantage earlier, you are looking at something symmetrical. If you want to grind it out, is it better than the other options? Depends on the deck. I feel like I'd rather the other cards I mentioned, but it depends on the deck.
3. Your spells cost 1 less. It's like a bad ramp spell. When you staple this to a 2CMC creature, like Herald of the Pantheon or Goblin Electromancer or Etherium Sculptor, then it can be very powerful. When this is stapled to a 6 mana spell, it is a lot less impressive.
4. The anthem: if your deck wants to go wide, choose a cheaper anthem and get in the beats early. If you are not going wide, then you don't care about this effect.
So, if I ignore the first and fourth abilities, which I do not expect to be important in the decks that would play this card, the card is a 6CMC spell that draws you an extra card per turn and reduces the cost of your spells by one. Some decks will want this. Aggro decks? No, they don't want 6CMC spells that do nothing. Combo decks? They have 2CMC cards to build their combos around, and will take symmetrical card draw to get the early win. Control decks are the only home for this card. But not any control - control decks not playing blue or black, and not playing planeswalkers.
This is why I do not expect this card to see much play. The mana cost is too high for its effects. There are more powerful cards at 6 mana. I'm not even sure Staff of Nin is that good... but if you animate it and give it deathtouch it can be gross.
Anyway, that's my opinion of this card. Cool card. Happy they made it. But not good enough at anything to be played very much in commander. Some play, sure.
If this card only said: "draw an extra card" or "reduce costs of spells by 1" by themselves for 6, I would agree. It's all of those effects in one that makes it appealing. It's better than Staff, Portal, or Archive in most cases.
My Teysa B/W Token deck will use because it heavily involves anthems, and the card advantage of spell reductions and extra draw is good. I could also see it in my Oona U/B control list. Cards like this end up being undersold, which plays into the card's strengths. It's a "remove ASAP" effect on a card that people may choose to ignore. If it survives a turn cycle, you're even. If it lives through two, you're at an advantage.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Am I the only one bugged by the fact that a dinosaur based visually on a ceratopsid is flavored as a carnivore hunting its prey?
If youm have such a problem with that you can restrict yourself to putting prey counters on Grave Bramble, Ghoultree and Vine Trellis - good old herbivore prey.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I wonder what your EDH meta looks like that a spell reducing, card drawing anthem would see zero play.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
I typically do not play competitive EDH, which I believe is a turn 2-4 format. My games usually go much longer. Games rarely end before the 10th turn, I'd say. I'm going to go through the abilities of the card one by one.
1. Planeswalkers can't activate abilities. Planeswalkers die very easily in EDH. I play a lot of them in Maelstrom Wanderer, but they are purely there for value. They net me mana. If I am activating other abilities, it is because I have nothing to do. I play planeswalkers in control decks, where they dodge wipes and help me grind out an advantage. The thing is, the planeswalkers are easy to deal with if anybody wants to. Planeswalkers rarely make it around the table unless I am way ahead of my opponents.
For my opponents playing planeswalkers, it is the same thing. Even a dedicated superfriends deck is pretty mediocre to me.
Conclusion: I do not expect the card to see play for the first ability, which is negligible in 99% of my games.
2. Draw an extra card at your draw step. Ouf, I hate this. I've been playing with Necropotence more lately, and I dislike that the extra card is during your draw step. Still, in a black deck, this is not being played over the other options. Not being played in blue, where there are a million cards that give you a better rate. White? Red? Maybe.. Red has the Chandras which do pretty well. But if we just look at colorless options.. Staff of Nin is pretty good though. There's also Coercive Portal, Endbringer, Mind's Eye, Sea Gate Wreckage, Tamiyo's Journal and all the symmetrical effects.
So, I could see this being played for the card draw, but it is not a unique effect. If you want to get the advantage earlier, you are looking at something symmetrical. If you want to grind it out, is it better than the other options? Depends on the deck. I feel like I'd rather the other cards I mentioned, but it depends on the deck.
3. Your spells cost 1 less. It's like a bad ramp spell. When you staple this to a 2CMC creature, like Herald of the Pantheon or Goblin Electromancer or Etherium Sculptor, then it can be very powerful. When this is stapled to a 6 mana spell, it is a lot less impressive.
4. The anthem: if your deck wants to go wide, choose a cheaper anthem and get in the beats early. If you are not going wide, then you don't care about this effect.
So, if I ignore the first and fourth abilities, which I do not expect to be important in the decks that would play this card, the card is a 6CMC spell that draws you an extra card per turn and reduces the cost of your spells by one. Some decks will want this. Aggro decks? No, they don't want 6CMC spells that do nothing. Combo decks? They have 2CMC cards to build their combos around, and will take symmetrical card draw to get the early win. Control decks are the only home for this card. But not any control - control decks not playing blue or black, and not playing planeswalkers.
This is why I do not expect this card to see much play. The mana cost is too high for its effects. There are more powerful cards at 6 mana. I'm not even sure Staff of Nin is that good... but if you animate it and give it deathtouch it can be gross.
Anyway, that's my opinion of this card. Cool card. Happy they made it. But not good enough at anything to be played very much in commander. Some play, sure.
If this card only said: "draw an extra card" or "reduce costs of spells by 1" by themselves for 6, I would agree. It's all of those effects in one that makes it appealing. It's better than Staff, Portal, or Archive in most cases.
My Teysa B/W Token deck will use because it heavily involves anthems, and the card advantage of spell reductions and extra draw is good. I could also see it in my Oona U/B control list. Cards like this end up being undersold, which plays into the card's strengths. It's a "remove ASAP" effect on a card that people may choose to ignore. If it survives a turn cycle, you're even. If it lives through two, you're at an advantage.
but how useful is cost reduction on turn 6? On turn 2 if you play Baral, Chief of Compliance, you will be able to cast 2 or 3 spells on turn 3, netting you 2 or 3 mana. On turn 7, are you spending your mana on a bunch of 3-4 mana spells? I guess it is better if you have a lower curve, but I just feel like it will rarely be doing much.
The card draw is fine, but with black man wouldn't you rather play Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, Necropotence, Greed, Erebos, God of the Dead...
Try it out, and let us know on the EDH forum how you find it. The only deck I could see myself playing it in Arjun, the shifting flame, because I want to cast 3-4 cards per turn.
The Immortal Sun is going straight into Daretti, I think. Also, I guess the first ability pretty much confirms that the Sun is what was trapping walkers on Ixalan.
How easily can Daretti use this if it blocks his abilities?
From my point of view, this would be a strategic card. Something that you would use when it's needed, and not just thrown out there just because.
It would hurt Daretti himself once it's out, but it would hurt a superfriends deck even more. Also the cost reduction and one-sided Howling Mine are pretty great boons.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
I typically do not play competitive EDH, which I believe is a turn 2-4 format. My games usually go much longer. Games rarely end before the 10th turn, I'd say. I'm going to go through the abilities of the card one by one.
1. Planeswalkers can't activate abilities. Planeswalkers die very easily in EDH. I play a lot of them in Maelstrom Wanderer, but they are purely there for value. They net me mana. If I am activating other abilities, it is because I have nothing to do. I play planeswalkers in control decks, where they dodge wipes and help me grind out an advantage. The thing is, the planeswalkers are easy to deal with if anybody wants to. Planeswalkers rarely make it around the table unless I am way ahead of my opponents.
For my opponents playing planeswalkers, it is the same thing. Even a dedicated superfriends deck is pretty mediocre to me.
Conclusion: I do not expect the card to see play for the first ability, which is negligible in 99% of my games.
2. Draw an extra card at your draw step. Ouf, I hate this. I've been playing with Necropotence more lately, and I dislike that the extra card is during your draw step. Still, in a black deck, this is not being played over the other options. Not being played in blue, where there are a million cards that give you a better rate. White? Red? Maybe.. Red has the Chandras which do pretty well. But if we just look at colorless options.. Staff of Nin is pretty good though. There's also Coercive Portal, Endbringer, Mind's Eye, Sea Gate Wreckage, Tamiyo's Journal and all the symmetrical effects.
So, I could see this being played for the card draw, but it is not a unique effect. If you want to get the advantage earlier, you are looking at something symmetrical. If you want to grind it out, is it better than the other options? Depends on the deck. I feel like I'd rather the other cards I mentioned, but it depends on the deck.
3. Your spells cost 1 less. It's like a bad ramp spell. When you staple this to a 2CMC creature, like Herald of the Pantheon or Goblin Electromancer or Etherium Sculptor, then it can be very powerful. When this is stapled to a 6 mana spell, it is a lot less impressive.
4. The anthem: if your deck wants to go wide, choose a cheaper anthem and get in the beats early. If you are not going wide, then you don't care about this effect.
So, if I ignore the first and fourth abilities, which I do not expect to be important in the decks that would play this card, the card is a 6CMC spell that draws you an extra card per turn and reduces the cost of your spells by one. Some decks will want this. Aggro decks? No, they don't want 6CMC spells that do nothing. Combo decks? They have 2CMC cards to build their combos around, and will take symmetrical card draw to get the early win. Control decks are the only home for this card. But not any control - control decks not playing blue or black, and not playing planeswalkers.
This is why I do not expect this card to see much play. The mana cost is too high for its effects. There are more powerful cards at 6 mana. I'm not even sure Staff of Nin is that good... but if you animate it and give it deathtouch it can be gross.
Anyway, that's my opinion of this card. Cool card. Happy they made it. But not good enough at anything to be played very much in commander. Some play, sure.
If this card only said: "draw an extra card" or "reduce costs of spells by 1" by themselves for 6, I would agree. It's all of those effects in one that makes it appealing. It's better than Staff, Portal, or Archive in most cases.
My Teysa B/W Token deck will use because it heavily involves anthems, and the card advantage of spell reductions and extra draw is good. I could also see it in my Oona U/B control list. Cards like this end up being undersold, which plays into the card's strengths. It's a "remove ASAP" effect on a card that people may choose to ignore. If it survives a turn cycle, you're even. If it lives through two, you're at an advantage.
but how useful is cost reduction on turn 6? On turn 2 if you play Baral, Chief of Compliance, you will be able to cast 2 or 3 spells on turn 3, netting you 2 or 3 mana. On turn 7, are you spending your mana on a bunch of 3-4 mana spells? I guess it is better if you have a lower curve, but I just feel like it will rarely be doing much.
The card draw is fine, but with black man wouldn't you rather play Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, Necropotence, Greed, Erebos, God of the Dead...
Try it out, and let us know on the EDH forum how you find it. The only deck I could see myself playing it in Arjun, the shifting flame, because I want to cast 3-4 cards per turn.
I already run a lot of other draw options, but the combined benefit is appealed. Don't underestimate the cost reduction. If I untap with it on 7, assuming no mana rocks, it would allow me to drop a creature like Angel of Invention or Geist-Honored Monk, and still have Mortify or any of B/W's other 3 mana removal options available (minus Unmake, obviously).
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Let's just say Ixalan's sun has burned out its share of hydrogen. Should have called this The Fizzling White Dwarf.
A Legendary Artifact card for it was what I was most anticipating for RIX, too. Really upsetting. I remember when they revealed Avacyn card from the Helvault in AVR my jaw hit the floor. That's the caliber cards like this should have.
And the immortal sun is yet another Eldrazi tribal card for edh due to additional draw and cost reduction
Black dinosaur
Ooooh..greeeeat now I have to get karona for a place holder of 5-color dinosaur tribal.
Any please focus on naya Dino's please I don't want to switch Gishath out for Saskia or korona
Saskia wouldn't want this anyway. Just to kill one dude, you have to pay 4BBB. Each additional dude costs an additional B. You could just Warstorm Surge into Grave Titan for better effect.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
I typically do not play competitive EDH, which I believe is a turn 2-4 format. My games usually go much longer. Games rarely end before the 10th turn, I'd say. I'm going to go through the abilities of the card one by one.
1. Planeswalkers can't activate abilities. Planeswalkers die very easily in EDH. I play a lot of them in Maelstrom Wanderer, but they are purely there for value. They net me mana. If I am activating other abilities, it is because I have nothing to do. I play planeswalkers in control decks, where they dodge wipes and help me grind out an advantage. The thing is, the planeswalkers are easy to deal with if anybody wants to. Planeswalkers rarely make it around the table unless I am way ahead of my opponents.
For my opponents playing planeswalkers, it is the same thing. Even a dedicated superfriends deck is pretty mediocre to me.
Conclusion: I do not expect the card to see play for the first ability, which is negligible in 99% of my games.
2. Draw an extra card at your draw step. Ouf, I hate this. I've been playing with Necropotence more lately, and I dislike that the extra card is during your draw step. Still, in a black deck, this is not being played over the other options. Not being played in blue, where there are a million cards that give you a better rate. White? Red? Maybe.. Red has the Chandras which do pretty well. But if we just look at colorless options.. Staff of Nin is pretty good though. There's also Coercive Portal, Endbringer, Mind's Eye, Sea Gate Wreckage, Tamiyo's Journal and all the symmetrical effects.
So, I could see this being played for the card draw, but it is not a unique effect. If you want to get the advantage earlier, you are looking at something symmetrical. If you want to grind it out, is it better than the other options? Depends on the deck. I feel like I'd rather the other cards I mentioned, but it depends on the deck.
3. Your spells cost 1 less. It's like a bad ramp spell. When you staple this to a 2CMC creature, like Herald of the Pantheon or Goblin Electromancer or Etherium Sculptor, then it can be very powerful. When this is stapled to a 6 mana spell, it is a lot less impressive.
4. The anthem: if your deck wants to go wide, choose a cheaper anthem and get in the beats early. If you are not going wide, then you don't care about this effect.
So, if I ignore the first and fourth abilities, which I do not expect to be important in the decks that would play this card, the card is a 6CMC spell that draws you an extra card per turn and reduces the cost of your spells by one. Some decks will want this. Aggro decks? No, they don't want 6CMC spells that do nothing. Combo decks? They have 2CMC cards to build their combos around, and will take symmetrical card draw to get the early win. Control decks are the only home for this card. But not any control - control decks not playing blue or black, and not playing planeswalkers.
This is why I do not expect this card to see much play. The mana cost is too high for its effects. There are more powerful cards at 6 mana. I'm not even sure Staff of Nin is that good... but if you animate it and give it deathtouch it can be gross.
Anyway, that's my opinion of this card. Cool card. Happy they made it. But not good enough at anything to be played very much in commander. Some play, sure.
If this card only said: "draw an extra card" or "reduce costs of spells by 1" by themselves for 6, I would agree. It's all of those effects in one that makes it appealing. It's better than Staff, Portal, or Archive in most cases.
My Teysa B/W Token deck will use because it heavily involves anthems, and the card advantage of spell reductions and extra draw is good. I could also see it in my Oona U/B control list. Cards like this end up being undersold, which plays into the card's strengths. It's a "remove ASAP" effect on a card that people may choose to ignore. If it survives a turn cycle, you're even. If it lives through two, you're at an advantage.
but how useful is cost reduction on turn 6? On turn 2 if you play Baral, Chief of Compliance, you will be able to cast 2 or 3 spells on turn 3, netting you 2 or 3 mana. On turn 7, are you spending your mana on a bunch of 3-4 mana spells? I guess it is better if you have a lower curve, but I just feel like it will rarely be doing much.
The card draw is fine, but with black man wouldn't you rather play Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, Necropotence, Greed, Erebos, God of the Dead...
Try it out, and let us know on the EDH forum how you find it. The only deck I could see myself playing it in Arjun, the shifting flame, because I want to cast 3-4 cards per turn.
I already run a lot of other draw options, but the combined benefit is appealed. Don't underestimate the cost reduction. If I untap with it on 7, assuming no mana rocks, it would allow me to drop a creature like Angel of Invention or Geist-Honored Monk, and still have Mortify or any of B/W's other 3 mana removal options available (minus Unmake, obviously).
I understand the cost reduction... but it's 6 mana, thus my skepticism. My 6 mana spells need to do a lot more in my opinion.
Let's just say Ixalan's sun has burned out its share of hydrogen. Should have called this The Fizzling White Dwarf.
A Legendary Artifact card for it was what I was most anticipating for RIX, too. Really upsetting. I remember when they revealed Avacyn card from the Helvault in AVR my jaw hit the floor. That's the caliber cards like this should have.
This is pretty much my problem with it too. Its a fine card and all but for something as heavily amd desperately sought after as the Sun is this feels awfully mundane. In the story it seems to convey immense power on top of the planeswalker binding. This just doesn't have the sort of impact implied. It's the same issue with Lilli's demons. Grisselbrand's card was obscenely powerful. But even though in the story Razaketh is supposedly more powerful they couldn't possibly print something like that.
I think it's pretty impressive, personally. Making spells cost 1 less isn't as impactful on a 6-drop, but the extra card draw, planeswalker locking, and anthem effect more than make up for it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Let's just say Ixalan's sun has burned out its share of hydrogen. Should have called this The Fizzling White Dwarf.
A Legendary Artifact card for it was what I was most anticipating for RIX, too. Really upsetting. I remember when they revealed Avacyn card from the Helvault in AVR my jaw hit the floor. That's the caliber cards like this should have.
This is pretty much my problem with it too. Its a fine card and all but for something as heavily amd desperately sought after as the Sun is this feels awfully mundane. In the story it seems to convey immense power on top of the planeswalker binding. This just doesn't have the sort of impact implied. It's the same issue with Lilli's demons. Grisselbrand's card was obscenely powerful. But even though in the story Razaketh is supposedly more powerful they couldn't possibly print something like that.
Hype culture seeps into everything.
Yet, Kothoped is a 6/6 that gives you one draw at a a time. Griselbrand is a 7/7 that lets you draw 7 cards at a time. Razaketh is 8/8 that lets you tutor for any card.. I wouldn't be surprised if Belzenlok will be a 9/9 or bigger that lets you sac a creature and pay half your life to Head Games yourself or something like that. Now, they could make him cost 9 or 10 mana and it wouldn't be a more powerfull card than at least Griselbrand. But from a flavor perspective, casting cost does not matter. That is an in-game balancing mechanic. If you leave casting cost out of the equation, you clearly see that Kothoped<Griselbrand<Razaketh and probably <Belzenlok.
That said, I completely agree with Tiro's assessment: a card that is as story hyped as this should feel awesome by having an awesome ability. Wether it will see play due to how "fairly" costed it is is not relevant. It just should be realy powerfull when you manage to get it out. "Whenever a loyalty counter would be removed from a planeswalker, it isn't. You and permanents you control have protection from Planeswalkers." for example, would make the immortal sun feel more unique and powerfull than this (regardless of wether the actual card in total would be).
Not too mention the fact that to feel as a good story artifact, it's abilities should have reflected something each tribe wanted. What of it's current abilities, even if you try to bend the effect for flavor, could possibly remove the bloodlust associated with vampirism the Legion of Dusk wants it for? What "land shaping powers" would this grant the merfolk? I can't think of anything beyond a generic:
Yet, Kothoped is a 6/6 that gives you one draw at a a time. Griselbrand is a 7/7 that lets you draw 7 cards at a time. Razaketh is 8/8 that lets you tutor for any card.. I wouldn't be surprised if Belzenlok will be a 9/9 or bigger that lets you sac a creature and pay half your life to Head Games yourself or something like that. Now, they could make him cost 9 or 10 mana and it wouldn't be a more powerfull card than at least Griselbrand. But from a flavor perspective, casting cost does not matter. That is an in-game balancing mechanic. If you leave casting cost out of the equation, you clearly see that Kothoped<Griselbrand<Razaketh and probably <Belzenlok.
That said, I completely agree with Tiro's assessment: a card that is as story hyped as this should feel awesome by having an awesome ability. Wether it will see play due to how "fairly" costed it is is not relevant. It just should be realy powerfull when you manage to get it out. "Whenever a loyalty counter would be removed from a planeswalker, it isn't. You and permanents you control have protection from Planeswalkers." for example, would make the immortal sun feel more unique and powerfull than this (regardless of wether the actual card in total would be).
Not too mention the fact that to feel as a good story artifact, it's abilities should have reflected something each tribe wanted. What of it's current abilities, even if you try to bend the effect for flavor, could possibly remove the bloodlust associated with vampirism the Legion of Dusk wants it for? What "land shaping powers" would this grant the merfolk? I can't think of anything beyond a generic:
+1 card -> Wisdom
+1/+1 -> Strength
-1 -> Wealth
In fairness I imagine that there was a time in design or development where the Sun was like 3 and only the antiplaneswalker ability and they decided it was too narrow to ever see any play in anything.
Yet, Kothoped is a 6/6 that gives you one draw at a a time. Griselbrand is a 7/7 that lets you draw 7 cards at a time. Razaketh is 8/8 that lets you tutor for any card.. I wouldn't be surprised if Belzenlok will be a 9/9 or bigger that lets you sac a creature and pay half your life to Head Games yourself or something like that. Now, they could make him cost 9 or 10 mana and it wouldn't be a more powerfull card than at least Griselbrand. But from a flavor perspective, casting cost does not matter. That is an in-game balancing mechanic. If you leave casting cost out of the equation, you clearly see that Kothoped<Griselbrand<Razaketh and probably <Belzenlok.
That said, I completely agree with Tiro's assessment: a card that is as story hyped as this should feel awesome by having an awesome ability. Wether it will see play due to how "fairly" costed it is is not relevant. It just should be realy powerfull when you manage to get it out. "Whenever a loyalty counter would be removed from a planeswalker, it isn't. You and permanents you control have protection from Planeswalkers." for example, would make the immortal sun feel more unique and powerfull than this (regardless of wether the actual card in total would be).
Not too mention the fact that to feel as a good story artifact, it's abilities should have reflected something each tribe wanted. What of it's current abilities, even if you try to bend the effect for flavor, could possibly remove the bloodlust associated with vampirism the Legion of Dusk wants it for? What "land shaping powers" would this grant the merfolk? I can't think of anything beyond a generic:
+1 card -> Wisdom
+1/+1 -> Strength
-1 -> Wealth
In fairness I imagine that there was a time in design or development where the Sun was like 3 and only the antiplaneswalker ability and they decided it was too narrow to ever see any play in anything.
And they would probably be right. And it wouldn't do the story justice either. But then again, neither does this version.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Yet, Kothoped is a 6/6 that gives you one draw at a a time. Griselbrand is a 7/7 that lets you draw 7 cards at a time. Razaketh is 8/8 that lets you tutor for any card.. I wouldn't be surprised if Belzenlok will be a 9/9 or bigger that lets you sac a creature and pay half your life to Head Games yourself or something like that. Now, they could make him cost 9 or 10 mana and it wouldn't be a more powerfull card than at least Griselbrand. But from a flavor perspective, casting cost does not matter. That is an in-game balancing mechanic. If you leave casting cost out of the equation, you clearly see that Kothoped<Griselbrand<Razaketh and probably <Belzenlok.
That said, I completely agree with Tiro's assessment: a card that is as story hyped as this should feel awesome by having an awesome ability. Wether it will see play due to how "fairly" costed it is is not relevant. It just should be realy powerfull when you manage to get it out. "Whenever a loyalty counter would be removed from a planeswalker, it isn't. You and permanents you control have protection from Planeswalkers." for example, would make the immortal sun feel more unique and powerfull than this (regardless of wether the actual card in total would be).
Not too mention the fact that to feel as a good story artifact, it's abilities should have reflected something each tribe wanted. What of it's current abilities, even if you try to bend the effect for flavor, could possibly remove the bloodlust associated with vampirism the Legion of Dusk wants it for? What "land shaping powers" would this grant the merfolk? I can't think of anything beyond a generic:
+1 card -> Wisdom
+1/+1 -> Strength
-1 -> Wealth
In fairness I imagine that there was a time in design or development where the Sun was like 3 and only the antiplaneswalker ability and they decided it was too narrow to ever see any play in anything.
And they would probably be right. And it wouldn't do the story justice either. But then again, neither does this version.
The planeswalker trap is the only clear-cut aspect of the artifact. Everything else was pretty much ambiguous, so even if I wanted to suggest a better way of doing this thing, it'd be difficult for me.
Am I the only one bugged by the fact that a dinosaur based visually on a ceratopsid is flavored as a carnivore hunting its prey?
I thought the same thing. "Shouldn't a "Primal Death dino be a T-Rex or something?"
Also, it seems like a hybrid between an ankylosaurid and a ceratopsid.
Well to me it makes me more unnatural and ****ed-up that Tetzimoc has the bodyform of a herbivore.
I think it being a herbivore makes sense other than the use of the word prey. Carnivores kill to eat but some herbivores like hippos just kill cause they have bad attitudes and love to wreck other animals.
Pirates, Dinos, and Vampires all have an aggro component that makes the +1/+1 useful, especially for Pirates and Vampires. Dinosaurs can use the cost reduction. Merfolk of course enjoy card draw.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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Planeswalkers make you discard those answers.
Planeswalkers make you sacrifice, destroy, bounce or otherwise remove the creatures that could remove them.
Planeswalkers being removed by counterspells is a bit of a nonanswer, as counterspells answer everything and are, in and of themsvelves, a very, very broken mechanic.
They are strong and yes, that strength can be quite meta-dependent but you need to deal with them right away, and if you do so, you are using an answer that cannot be sent to another permanent (your bolt can't hit a creature). It's too much. They have needed a Null Rod for 'walkers forever. It should have been done almost immediately after the Planeswalker card type occurred, but they just let them gain more and more power and traction. This costs 6 so it's not perfect, but it's a step in the right direction. Hopefully they hinder 'walkers more in the future, it's needed and warranted.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
It's the kind of meta where a 6 mana spell needs to have a rather immediate impact, and unless you're facing superfriends, this thing does nothing the turn you cast it aside from being an anthem...which is not a thing that sees play here on it's own. And no, I don't play competitive EDH.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I'm guessing your idea of competitive EDH and mine are two different things. What turn does your average game end?
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Depends a bit on the decks brought to the table, but I'd say roughly turn 10 is a good estimation, or at least that's when it's clear who wins.
Competitive EDH is things like Tazri Food Chain, Sidisi Ad Nauseam, etc. Decks that win by T2/3/4.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I would say your meta falls under "competitive" while AN or HD decks fall under "hyper-competitive".
10 turns for a 4-player game is still blazingly fast.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I typically do not play competitive EDH, which I believe is a turn 2-4 format. My games usually go much longer. Games rarely end before the 10th turn, I'd say. I'm going to go through the abilities of the card one by one.
1. Planeswalkers can't activate abilities. Planeswalkers die very easily in EDH. I play a lot of them in Maelstrom Wanderer, but they are purely there for value. They net me mana. If I am activating other abilities, it is because I have nothing to do. I play planeswalkers in control decks, where they dodge wipes and help me grind out an advantage. The thing is, the planeswalkers are easy to deal with if anybody wants to. Planeswalkers rarely make it around the table unless I am way ahead of my opponents.
For my opponents playing planeswalkers, it is the same thing. Even a dedicated superfriends deck is pretty mediocre to me.
Conclusion: I do not expect the card to see play for the first ability, which is negligible in 99% of my games.
2. Draw an extra card at your draw step. Ouf, I hate this. I've been playing with Necropotence more lately, and I dislike that the extra card is during your draw step. Still, in a black deck, this is not being played over the other options. Not being played in blue, where there are a million cards that give you a better rate. White? Red? Maybe.. Red has the Chandras which do pretty well. But if we just look at colorless options.. Staff of Nin is pretty good though. There's also Coercive Portal, Endbringer, Mind's Eye, Sea Gate Wreckage, Tamiyo's Journal and all the symmetrical effects.
So, I could see this being played for the card draw, but it is not a unique effect. If you want to get the advantage earlier, you are looking at something symmetrical. If you want to grind it out, is it better than the other options? Depends on the deck. I feel like I'd rather the other cards I mentioned, but it depends on the deck.
3. Your spells cost 1 less. It's like a bad ramp spell. When you staple this to a 2CMC creature, like Herald of the Pantheon or Goblin Electromancer or Etherium Sculptor, then it can be very powerful. When this is stapled to a 6 mana spell, it is a lot less impressive.
4. The anthem: if your deck wants to go wide, choose a cheaper anthem and get in the beats early. If you are not going wide, then you don't care about this effect.
So, if I ignore the first and fourth abilities, which I do not expect to be important in the decks that would play this card, the card is a 6CMC spell that draws you an extra card per turn and reduces the cost of your spells by one. Some decks will want this. Aggro decks? No, they don't want 6CMC spells that do nothing. Combo decks? They have 2CMC cards to build their combos around, and will take symmetrical card draw to get the early win. Control decks are the only home for this card. But not any control - control decks not playing blue or black, and not playing planeswalkers.
This is why I do not expect this card to see much play. The mana cost is too high for its effects. There are more powerful cards at 6 mana. I'm not even sure Staff of Nin is that good... but if you animate it and give it deathtouch it can be gross.
Anyway, that's my opinion of this card. Cool card. Happy they made it. But not good enough at anything to be played very much in commander. Some play, sure.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
If this card only said: "draw an extra card" or "reduce costs of spells by 1" by themselves for 6, I would agree. It's all of those effects in one that makes it appealing. It's better than Staff, Portal, or Archive in most cases.
My Teysa B/W Token deck will use because it heavily involves anthems, and the card advantage of spell reductions and extra draw is good. I could also see it in my Oona U/B control list. Cards like this end up being undersold, which plays into the card's strengths. It's a "remove ASAP" effect on a card that people may choose to ignore. If it survives a turn cycle, you're even. If it lives through two, you're at an advantage.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
If youm have such a problem with that you can restrict yourself to putting prey counters on Grave Bramble, Ghoultree and Vine Trellis - good old herbivore prey.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
but how useful is cost reduction on turn 6? On turn 2 if you play Baral, Chief of Compliance, you will be able to cast 2 or 3 spells on turn 3, netting you 2 or 3 mana. On turn 7, are you spending your mana on a bunch of 3-4 mana spells? I guess it is better if you have a lower curve, but I just feel like it will rarely be doing much.
The card draw is fine, but with black man wouldn't you rather play Phyrexian Arena, Bloodgift Demon, Necropotence, Greed, Erebos, God of the Dead...
Try it out, and let us know on the EDH forum how you find it. The only deck I could see myself playing it in Arjun, the shifting flame, because I want to cast 3-4 cards per turn.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
We are always on the lookout for great boons.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I already run a lot of other draw options, but the combined benefit is appealed. Don't underestimate the cost reduction. If I untap with it on 7, assuming no mana rocks, it would allow me to drop a creature like Angel of Invention or Geist-Honored Monk, and still have Mortify or any of B/W's other 3 mana removal options available (minus Unmake, obviously).
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
A Legendary Artifact card for it was what I was most anticipating for RIX, too. Really upsetting. I remember when they revealed Avacyn card from the Helvault in AVR my jaw hit the floor. That's the caliber cards like this should have.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Saskia wouldn't want this anyway. Just to kill one dude, you have to pay 4BBB. Each additional dude costs an additional B. You could just Warstorm Surge into Grave Titan for better effect.
On phasing:
I understand the cost reduction... but it's 6 mana, thus my skepticism. My 6 mana spells need to do a lot more in my opinion.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
This is pretty much my problem with it too. Its a fine card and all but for something as heavily amd desperately sought after as the Sun is this feels awfully mundane. In the story it seems to convey immense power on top of the planeswalker binding. This just doesn't have the sort of impact implied. It's the same issue with Lilli's demons. Grisselbrand's card was obscenely powerful. But even though in the story Razaketh is supposedly more powerful they couldn't possibly print something like that.
Hype culture seeps into everything.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Yet, Kothoped is a 6/6 that gives you one draw at a a time. Griselbrand is a 7/7 that lets you draw 7 cards at a time. Razaketh is 8/8 that lets you tutor for any card.. I wouldn't be surprised if Belzenlok will be a 9/9 or bigger that lets you sac a creature and pay half your life to Head Games yourself or something like that. Now, they could make him cost 9 or 10 mana and it wouldn't be a more powerfull card than at least Griselbrand. But from a flavor perspective, casting cost does not matter. That is an in-game balancing mechanic. If you leave casting cost out of the equation, you clearly see that Kothoped<Griselbrand<Razaketh and probably <Belzenlok.
That said, I completely agree with Tiro's assessment: a card that is as story hyped as this should feel awesome by having an awesome ability. Wether it will see play due to how "fairly" costed it is is not relevant. It just should be realy powerfull when you manage to get it out. "Whenever a loyalty counter would be removed from a planeswalker, it isn't. You and permanents you control have protection from Planeswalkers." for example, would make the immortal sun feel more unique and powerfull than this (regardless of wether the actual card in total would be).
Not too mention the fact that to feel as a good story artifact, it's abilities should have reflected something each tribe wanted. What of it's current abilities, even if you try to bend the effect for flavor, could possibly remove the bloodlust associated with vampirism the Legion of Dusk wants it for? What "land shaping powers" would this grant the merfolk? I can't think of anything beyond a generic:
+1 card -> Wisdom
+1/+1 -> Strength
-1 -> Wealth
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
In fairness I imagine that there was a time in design or development where the Sun was like 3 and only the antiplaneswalker ability and they decided it was too narrow to ever see any play in anything.
And they would probably be right. And it wouldn't do the story justice either. But then again, neither does this version.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
The planeswalker trap is the only clear-cut aspect of the artifact. Everything else was pretty much ambiguous, so even if I wanted to suggest a better way of doing this thing, it'd be difficult for me.
How about Cow-lateral Damage counter.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.