I wouldn't call the card unplayable, but now I don't understand why they even used the word permanent. It would have been more intuitive to how it really worked if they kept it the same but just left that word out. I guess because if she leaves the battlefield, the creature still remains blank?
If the creatures remain blank even after she leaves the battlefield then she's still broken. I still don't get why that case of permanence isn't until the end of the game? Mairsil is pretty much that way - and that's a black-bordered card.
Mairsil uses a handy-dandy reminder system commonly known as "counters" along with the exile zone. Phoebe, despite her non-standard terminology, uses an ordinary modifier that applies somewhere in the layers system, and is therefore subject to the usual reset associated with zone changes. At least, that answers your question from a rules standpoint.
From a design standpoint, I don't think that Wizards could have executed her design in a remotely similar fashion to Mairsil. Without the luxury of a static ability that tracks objects in exile, Phoebe simply can't track the text boxes she stole across possibly hidden zones. They won't turn her into a Modular Monstrosity-style memory fiasco, either, because, well, that's MM's shtick.
I wouldn't call the card unplayable, but now I don't understand why they even used the word permanent. It would have been more intuitive to how it really worked if they kept it the same but just left that word out. I guess because if she leaves the battlefield, the creature still remains blank?
If the creatures remain blank even after she leaves the battlefield then she's still broken. I still don't get why that case of permanence isn't until the end of the game? Mairsil is pretty much that way - and that's a black-bordered card.
Mairsil uses a handy-dandy reminder system commonly known as "counters" along with the exile zone. Phoebe, despite her non-standard terminology, uses an ordinary modifier that applies somewhere in the layers system, and is therefore subject to the usual reset associated with zone changes. At least, that answers your question from a rules standpoint.
From a design standpoint, I don't think that Wizards could have executed her design in a remotely similar fashion to Mairsil. Without the luxury of a static ability that tracks objects in exile, Phoebe simply can't track the text boxes she stole across possibly hidden zones. They won't turn her into a Modular Monstrosity-style memory fiasco, either, because, well, that's MM's shtick.
True, but then instead of the word permanent she could've had an "until she leaves the battlefield" like clause.
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True, but then instead of the word permanent she could've had an "until she leaves the battlefield" like clause.
Or just nothing. Phoebe steals target creature's text box would IMHO intuitively mean "for as long as she's on the battlefield" since it lacks any kind of "until end of turn" phrasing. Unlike, say, Some Disassembly Required. Adding the word permanent heavily implies that it's, well, permanent (i.e. unaffected by zone changes). At least for the current game.
Edit: Really Epic Punch could have used the word permanent but it doesn't. Why the inconsistency?
True, but then instead of the word permanent she could've had an "until she leaves the battlefield" like clause.
Or just nothing. Phoebe steals target creature's text box would IMHO intuitively mean "for as long as she's on the battlefield" since it lacks any kind of "until end of turn" phrasing. Unlike, say, Some Disassembly Required. Adding the word permanent heavily implies that it's, well, permanent (i.e. unaffected by zone changes). At least for the current game.
Edit: Really Epic Punch could have used the word permanent but it doesn't. Why the inconsistency?
Playtesters probably used her like she said "until eot" a lot.
That was my question he answered clarifying that. I have to say, I'm a bit disappointed. I think he's using a very lame definition of permanently. Until the end of the game, or perhaps until your opponent(s) changes makes much more sense to me.
"Permanently = for as long as this remains a permanent" seems like a uniquely sensible and intuitive definition rather than 'lame'.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
True, but then instead of the word permanent she could've had an "until she leaves the battlefield" like clause.
Or just nothing. Phoebe steals target creature's text box would IMHO intuitively mean "for as long as she's on the battlefield" since it lacks any kind of "until end of turn" phrasing. Unlike, say, Some Disassembly Required. Adding the word permanent heavily implies that it's, well, permanent (i.e. unaffected by zone changes). At least for the current game.
Edit: Really Epic Punch could have used the word permanent but it doesn't. Why the inconsistency?
It would seem that Phoebe requires adding R&D's Secret Lair to the deck. I don't know if that was the point or not. But I'm assuming that as long as you play her with R&D's Secret Lair and it stays in play, she'd permanently have her abilities. So you'd have to get rid of R&D's Secret Lair in order for her to lose those text boxes whenever she leaves the battlefield.
Intuitively, you would expect "permanently" to mean at least until the end of the game - at least. Because most other conditions concerning permanents are gone when they leave the battlefield because they become a new instance of that permanent. So that's what would be inferred had the word "permanent" not been there. It's like Riding the Dilu Horse; the effect doesn't end at the end of turn but if the creature leaves the battlefield then it no longer gets the boost nor has horsemanship.
My YouTube Channel: The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
It would seem that Phoebe requires adding R&D's Secret Lair to the deck. I don't know if that was the point or not. But I'm assuming that as long as you play her with R&D's Secret Lair and it stays in play, she'd permanently have her abilities. So you'd have to get rid of R&D's Secret Lair in order for her to lose those text boxes whenever she leaves the battlefield.
I don't think that does anything. Them clarifying how a card works isn't errata.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
Mairsil uses a handy-dandy reminder system commonly known as "counters" along with the exile zone. Phoebe, despite her non-standard terminology, uses an ordinary modifier that applies somewhere in the layers system, and is therefore subject to the usual reset associated with zone changes. At least, that answers your question from a rules standpoint.
From a design standpoint, I don't think that Wizards could have executed her design in a remotely similar fashion to Mairsil. Without the luxury of a static ability that tracks objects in exile, Phoebe simply can't track the text boxes she stole across possibly hidden zones. They won't turn her into a Modular Monstrosity-style memory fiasco, either, because, well, that's MM's shtick.
True, but then instead of the word permanent she could've had an "until she leaves the battlefield" like clause.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
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Or just nothing. Phoebe steals target creature's text box would IMHO intuitively mean "for as long as she's on the battlefield" since it lacks any kind of "until end of turn" phrasing. Unlike, say, Some Disassembly Required. Adding the word permanent heavily implies that it's, well, permanent (i.e. unaffected by zone changes). At least for the current game.
Edit: Really Epic Punch could have used the word permanent but it doesn't. Why the inconsistency?
"Permanently = for as long as this remains a permanent" seems like a uniquely sensible and intuitive definition rather than 'lame'.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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It would seem that Phoebe requires adding R&D's Secret Lair to the deck. I don't know if that was the point or not. But I'm assuming that as long as you play her with R&D's Secret Lair and it stays in play, she'd permanently have her abilities. So you'd have to get rid of R&D's Secret Lair in order for her to lose those text boxes whenever she leaves the battlefield.
Intuitively, you would expect "permanently" to mean at least until the end of the game - at least. Because most other conditions concerning permanents are gone when they leave the battlefield because they become a new instance of that permanent. So that's what would be inferred had the word "permanent" not been there. It's like Riding the Dilu Horse; the effect doesn't end at the end of turn but if the creature leaves the battlefield then it no longer gets the boost nor has horsemanship.
BGU [Primer] Sidisi, Brood Tyrant BGU | BG [Primer] Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG | G [Primer] Polukranos, World Eater G
My YouTube Channel:
The Commander Tavern - a channel I just started where I'll post deck techs and gameplays. Please support by checking it out. Maybe you'll like its content and subscribe! Thanks!
I don't think that does anything. Them clarifying how a card works isn't errata.