Wait wait wait. So you're saying that the Monarch mechanic would work in Legacy? Like I could go play an SCGclassic after this set launches and the Monarch mechanic will work as though it was a conspiracy draft?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
Wait wait wait. So you're saying that the Monarch mechanic would work in Legacy? Like I could go play an SCGclassic after this set launches and the Monarch mechanic will work as though it was a conspiracy draft?
The only conspiracy cards you can't use are cards that actually have the conspiracy card type such as Brago's Favor. I believe The Monarch is a new keyword like lifelink or deathtouch. The card I posted above is just a reminder card, its not actually a permanent or anything nor does it sit in the command zone.
Huh. This will be interesting to see if a low cost spell that simply makes you the monarch might find its way into a deck like Miracles if you can indeed become a Monarch in Legacy. But back to EDH- yeah, if this is the case, Marchesa makes a great Stax general now. One of Stax's problem is barfing its lock pieces out as quickly as possible and trying to find a hard lock. Marchesa solves the refueling problem and provides a wincon in one.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
hey i've been fallowing this thread for a while and never have built a stax deck though i have been meaning to for some time.
what do you guys think of Leovold, Emissary of Trest for a multiplayer stax commander. or is queen marchesa going to be the stronger one?
While Marchesa is on the colors with the best hate options, Leonvold can destroy any potential card advantage. I think that Marchesa can play the long classic grinding stax way whereas Leonvold can go in a more aggresive early lock way. Both options are quite viable IMO.
What do you guys think of Leovold, Emissary of Trest for a multiplayer stax commander? I'm planning to make a stax and control deck, one that fully utilises the colour identity and Leovold's ability to put a full grip in most of my games. My playgroup meta is quite cut throat, consisting of a Derevi Stax, Prossh Combo and Narset Infinite turns. Any tips on how to build a cutthroat, stax deck to control them would be great and appreciated!
It would help if the guide included example numbers of roughly how many of each type of card a stax deck should include.
I have started brewing some ideas and I am testing them, although it would help if I could know roughly how many tutors and how many sac effects, so I could get the right balance for good draws.
Also just example decks would help too, so I can know if I'm doing it right
It would help if the guide included example numbers of roughly how many of each type of card a stax deck should include.
I have started brewing some ideas and I am testing them, although it would help if I could know roughly how many tutors and how many sac effects, so I could get the right balance for good draws.
Also just example decks would help too, so I can know if I'm doing it right
That's going to depend on too many factors for anyone to be able to give a definitive answer. It depends on the type(s) of stax effects you're focusing on, and on how competitive a deck you're wanting to run and how competitive your metagame is, it depends on the sorts of decks yours typically will be going up against, etc. It even depends quite a bit on your color mix and even on your budget and card pool, really. You can get by with fewer tutors if you are using black, because black has the strongest and most versatile tutors, but that is less applicable if you don't own and can't afford some of the premium black tutors like Demonic Tutor or Vampiric Tutor.
I love that this particular thread is still going. I don't know what Phil is up to these days, but I suspect he'd be pleased.
Faith of the Devoted for any Bxx build, but especially Zur, the Enchanter. 3 mana, whenever you would cycle or discard, each opponent loses 2 life and you gain 2 life. with all of the discard enchantments, this seems disgusting. Maybe throw in some cycling lands?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Manglehorn strikes me as the real stax gem from this set. The combination of removal and tapping on a reasonably cheap body is ideal when you're trying to slow the game down and prevent people doing fancy things. Obviously it's particularly good with things that will subsequently prevent them untapping their artifacts, but slowing down the use of things for a turn can still be very useful, while even just knocking out a Sol Ring that's helping someone get round your mana denial can be a significant boost to your gameplan.
Am I running enough stax effects?
Should I add more ways to finish the game?
Or add more Voltron enchantments?
Or add more sticky threats sucks as True-Name Nemesis/Dragonlord Ojutai?
Note: I also prefer to stay in Esper or UW colors because I already have the lands I need.
Too much creature hate? Really?? I always feel a little under-powered, though I did run a lot less with Zur because I had so many BBx enchantments. What would you cut? Sweepers or targeted removal?
I don't really have a meta. Different people show up with 5+ decks and play something. I essentially have this and a Mayael the Anima Timmy(!) deck. Mostly I end up being the enemy in a 3 vs. me, which I am perfectly fine with. Most people who play know they will start by trying to eliminate me.
The most common decks are heavy on aggression or combos. My Mayael deck is definitely much less consistent and slow than most of the decks I play against. Lords I have seen lately: Marchesa, some mono-B thing that was unpleasant, a mono-R super aggro deck, a white-weenie tokens deck with Gideon as a commander, and some other very fast comob decks I don't remember as well, like a GW deck that milled us all out turn 5. That was fun. I live to make combo cry tears and flip tables.
Cephalid seems great.
Dig Through Time is perfectly fine with SR. I think I want more draw, as I tend to end up top-decking. that, of course, is part of the appeal of Narset. She will essentially draw, draw draw in this deck, then ultimate and stop anyone from playing non-creature spells except me, which seems really good.
Haven't added any "hatebears" because I am not sure they are very good, but maybe I should. Keep in mind I play DnT in two formats, as well as tempo decks like Merfolk and Spirits, so I know my hatebears. They just always seem under-powered in EDH, though enchantments like Arcane Laboratory and creatures like Eidolon of Rehtoric and Ethersworn Canonist seem quite strong.
Cheers and thanks!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Just getting back on Staxx lol. I chose Brago as the Commander of choice this time. I find in my experience, Brago blinking rocks under a Winter Orb/Hokori/Rising Waters to be outstanding! I do prefer a more Lovebears approach though, as I include sanctum prelate, the Rishadan Pirates, recruiter of the guard, Linvala,keeper of Silence alongside the assorted and famous cards like winter orb, hokori, dust drinker, stasis, tangle wire, rising waters, armageddon. I know Linvala may seem odd but she is quite powerful in a Staxx shell, as locking out the opponents creatures from activating (especially mana dorks) is incredible. Recently added pithing needle and meekstone which have performed perfectly.
Would the new Mirri, Weatherlight Duelist Work as a new Stax Commander?? I see her as being able to shut down a lot of attacks coming your way as you set up the board. Everyone hates stax so you would be the prime target to kill, and her second ability helps you stay alive longer.
Being a creature is a detriment far more often than it is beneficial in my experience. Hushwing Gryff makes up for it by having flash - a pretty important detail - but is still usually weaker than Torpor Orb, and I am not sure a third copy of this effect is needed.
The card is good, but I do not expect it to be played often, even in decks that want that effect.
The other problem with Tocatli Honor Guard is that the top deck that would want stax effects on creatures - T&T Blood Pod - wins through Kiki Combo and thus doesn't really want this. Hulkweaver is in a similar position thanks to Karmic Guide being an integral part of the wincon.
Honour guard ain't a bad card by any means, but there's not really a home for it at the top end of the stax/hatebears lists.
I prefer Brago Stax featuring hatebears to supplement the Stax engine. Linvala, keeper of Silence, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, Thalia, Heretic Cathar alongside the traditional Stax pieces. I find the redundancy quite effective, plus you can attack with the creatures as well. I can see why a combo finish is good like RIP+Helm or Strionic Resonator going infinite just to ends game quickly when you have the board locked up. There's tons of ways to build Stax, just throwing in my 3 cents.
The other problem with Tocatli Honor Guard is that the top deck that would want stax effects on creatures - T&T Blood Pod - wins through Kiki Combo and thus doesn't really want this. Hulkweaver is in a similar position thanks to Karmic Guide being an integral part of the wincon.
Honour guard ain't a bad card by any means, but there's not really a home for it at the top end of the stax/hatebears lists.
i think this perception is the sole reason why i wrote my 2 cents here. giving an outside the (internet-proven)-box view on what still is the one and only primer of stax. there are good decks and opinions over at reddit or other sites but they arent the only truth. feels like your wiev is the general consens from there and im not here to prove who is wrong or right.
there are several weaknessess at implementing a combofinish via non stax cards into a stax list.
-you loose consistency
-you open yourself up to praetor's grasp neutering your win
-you cant use all the best hate because antisynergy would be too big
-you cannot play the aggro role that well; your basically a midrange combo/tempo deck; your tools are stax pieces instead of tasigurs/rashmis reactive control but you are in the same vein only winning if you can drop a tempoengine and make it last for a while to suck enough value out of it. this leads to you overwhelming your opponents.
to me this is important to note because when i was new i didnt get why playing a low curve in stax is mandatory. this primer holds so many deep knowledge that are true today and in the future.
While there are indeed weaknesses to having combo finishes, in the competative metas Blood Pod is designed for they're less significant than the weakness of not having one - just being too damn slow. Getting a full on stax lock often isn't really something you can reliably achieve against 3 opponents running plenty of interaction while also trying to combo out ASAP, and soft locks generally just buy time, so you need to see the game out before the opponents get round them. That's what combo gives the deck. It turns a strong board state into a win in a format where the people with an apparently weak position can turn ti round very quickly. It it absolutely necessary? No. Do the advantages outweigh the drawbacks? From my experience, yes.
From my experience, stax is at its strongest when it's a method of getting to your wincon without losing, and a deck like blood pod does this perfectly.
I will note though, I am very much talking about competitive play here. If you're bringing a stax approach to something a little more casual, stuff like the honour guard can often be excellent cards (although I prefer the two previous iterations of the effect and don't really see the need for more redundancy), and the pressure to see out games is less than at the highest level of the format.
Well, I'm not elfric, but the thing about the partners is there's little point in keeping them on their own unless you're really having trouble getting the land base needed to fix the third and/or fourth colours. Adding, say, green to Tymna gives here a lot more options to help both Staxing (Root Maze for example) and breaking the parity of your effects - Winter Orb is way better if you have Llanowar Elves and similar in play, especially when Tymna can turn them into card draw if you don't need the mana.
If you're looking for something on the competitive level, you might be interested in looking at the deck I was referring to earlier: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tana-and-tymna-blood-pod-primer/. It's a tax/hatebears list designed to deal with fast combos and is generally accepted as the best stax list around for such a meta. You could also probably adapt the shell with a different wincon quite well for a BWG list if you don't want to go four colours.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
The only conspiracy cards you can't use are cards that actually have the conspiracy card type such as Brago's Favor. I believe The Monarch is a new keyword like lifelink or deathtouch. The card I posted above is just a reminder card, its not actually a permanent or anything nor does it sit in the command zone.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
what do you guys think of Leovold, Emissary of Trest for a multiplayer stax commander. or is queen marchesa going to be the stronger one?
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
UGTatyova, Benthic DruidUG | RBRakdos the DefilerRB | RNorin the WaryR | BGThelon of HavenwoodBG
I have started brewing some ideas and I am testing them, although it would help if I could know roughly how many tutors and how many sac effects, so I could get the right balance for good draws.
Also just example decks would help too, so I can know if I'm doing it right
That's going to depend on too many factors for anyone to be able to give a definitive answer. It depends on the type(s) of stax effects you're focusing on, and on how competitive a deck you're wanting to run and how competitive your metagame is, it depends on the sorts of decks yours typically will be going up against, etc. It even depends quite a bit on your color mix and even on your budget and card pool, really. You can get by with fewer tutors if you are using black, because black has the strongest and most versatile tutors, but that is less applicable if you don't own and can't afford some of the premium black tutors like Demonic Tutor or Vampiric Tutor.
I love that this particular thread is still going. I don't know what Phil is up to these days, but I suspect he'd be pleased.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I am avoiding tutors such as Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor.
I would love to hear critics of my deck before I go out and buy this deck. Please help.
My current plan to to just stall the game with taxing and resource denial effects before finishing off the opponent with Armageddon followed by Empyrial Armor/Necropotence and Humility/Night of Soul's Betrayal combo OR to PW ultimates.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-ageless-ascetic-staxpillowfort/
Am I running enough stax effects?
Should I add more ways to finish the game?
Or add more Voltron enchantments?
Or add more sticky threats sucks as True-Name Nemesis/Dragonlord Ojutai?
Note: I also prefer to stay in Esper or UW colors because I already have the lands I need.
1 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Lands 36
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Flooded Strand
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Temple of Enlightenment
4 Snow-Covered Island
4 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Seachrome Coast
1 Scavenger Grounds
1 Prairie Stream
1 Myriad Landscape
1 Maze of Ith
1 Tolaria West
1 Desert of the True
1 Skyline Cascade
1 Halimar Depths
1 Secluded Step
1 Port Town
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Tranquil Cove
1 Calciform Pools
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Command Tower
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Mana Vortex
1 Mana Breach
1 Land Equilibrium
1 Aura of Silence
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Aura Flux
1 Pendrell Mists
1 Rhystic Study
1 Propaganda
1 Stasis
1 Humility
1 Oblivion ring
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Detention Sphere
1 In the Eye of Chaos
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Suppression Field
1 Banishing Light
Artifacts 13
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Smokestack
1 Tangle Wire
1 Static Orb
1 Winter Orb
1 Trinisphere
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Torpor Orb
1 Meekstone
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Cursed Totem
1 Sensei's Divining top
1 Armageddon
1 Cataclysm
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Cleansing Meditation
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Sphinx's Revelation
Mana Rocks 13
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Pearl Medallion
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Mind Stone
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Grim Monolith
1 Azorius Signet
Creatures 6
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Sun titan
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Magus of the Tabernacle
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 False Prophet
Planeswalkers 3
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Eslpeth, Sun's Champion
1 Narset Transcendent
I worry I have too many mana rocks and I might be better served by fewer and an Expedition Map and some other things.
I want to find room for Damping Matrix, Lightmine Field and Ward of Bones
Dovin Baan also seems doable with that emblem.
All suggestions and advice welcome.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Thanks for the all the feedback!
Too much creature hate? Really?? I always feel a little under-powered, though I did run a lot less with Zur because I had so many BBx enchantments. What would you cut? Sweepers or targeted removal?
I don't really have a meta. Different people show up with 5+ decks and play something. I essentially have this and a Mayael the Anima Timmy(!) deck. Mostly I end up being the enemy in a 3 vs. me, which I am perfectly fine with. Most people who play know they will start by trying to eliminate me.
The most common decks are heavy on aggression or combos. My Mayael deck is definitely much less consistent and slow than most of the decks I play against. Lords I have seen lately: Marchesa, some mono-B thing that was unpleasant, a mono-R super aggro deck, a white-weenie tokens deck with Gideon as a commander, and some other very fast comob decks I don't remember as well, like a GW deck that milled us all out turn 5. That was fun. I live to make combo cry tears and flip tables.
Cephalid seems great.
Dig Through Time is perfectly fine with SR. I think I want more draw, as I tend to end up top-decking. that, of course, is part of the appeal of Narset. She will essentially draw, draw draw in this deck, then ultimate and stop anyone from playing non-creature spells except me, which seems really good.
I dropped Signet for Overburden and I don't see a lot of value to Darksteel Ingot (I have only 2 colors and a ton of U/W lands.) Is Worn Powerstone worth it?
I was considering dropping Journey to Nowhere and Detention Sphere, but D-Sphere is so good for tokens.
Is Greater Auramancy worth it? This isn't a Zur deck after all. Maybe Replenish?
Blind Obedience might be decent. Or Frozen Æther. Or just Thalia, Heretic Cathar.
Haven't added any "hatebears" because I am not sure they are very good, but maybe I should. Keep in mind I play DnT in two formats, as well as tempo decks like Merfolk and Spirits, so I know my hatebears. They just always seem under-powered in EDH, though enchantments like Arcane Laboratory and creatures like Eidolon of Rehtoric and Ethersworn Canonist seem quite strong.
Cheers and thanks!
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Taking that and False Prophet out for Tamiyo, the Moon Sage and Jace, Memory Adept for draw and end game.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I'll let him know this thread is alive and well.
Sydri's Magical Castle WUB
Chainer, Dementia Master: "Bring out your dead!" BBB
Riku Because Copying Decimate URG
Xira Arien, Jund StaxBRG
The Sylvan-Primordial-PlasmBUG
Trostani ComboGW
Vizkopa Guildmage - Peasant VariantBW
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
BWREDGAR MARKOV VAMPIRESBWR
Being a creature is a detriment far more often than it is beneficial in my experience. Hushwing Gryff makes up for it by having flash - a pretty important detail - but is still usually weaker than Torpor Orb, and I am not sure a third copy of this effect is needed.
The card is good, but I do not expect it to be played often, even in decks that want that effect.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Honour guard ain't a bad card by any means, but there's not really a home for it at the top end of the stax/hatebears lists.
Do you have a WB Tymna the Weaver Stax build? I have seen several 4c builds using Tymna and Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist or Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa, but nothing really Stax-ish with hatebears.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
While there are indeed weaknesses to having combo finishes, in the competative metas Blood Pod is designed for they're less significant than the weakness of not having one - just being too damn slow. Getting a full on stax lock often isn't really something you can reliably achieve against 3 opponents running plenty of interaction while also trying to combo out ASAP, and soft locks generally just buy time, so you need to see the game out before the opponents get round them. That's what combo gives the deck. It turns a strong board state into a win in a format where the people with an apparently weak position can turn ti round very quickly. It it absolutely necessary? No. Do the advantages outweigh the drawbacks? From my experience, yes.
From my experience, stax is at its strongest when it's a method of getting to your wincon without losing, and a deck like blood pod does this perfectly.
I will note though, I am very much talking about competitive play here. If you're bringing a stax approach to something a little more casual, stuff like the honour guard can often be excellent cards (although I prefer the two previous iterations of the effect and don't really see the need for more redundancy), and the pressure to see out games is less than at the highest level of the format.
Well, I'm not elfric, but the thing about the partners is there's little point in keeping them on their own unless you're really having trouble getting the land base needed to fix the third and/or fourth colours. Adding, say, green to Tymna gives here a lot more options to help both Staxing (Root Maze for example) and breaking the parity of your effects - Winter Orb is way better if you have Llanowar Elves and similar in play, especially when Tymna can turn them into card draw if you don't need the mana.
If you're looking for something on the competitive level, you might be interested in looking at the deck I was referring to earlier: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/tana-and-tymna-blood-pod-primer/. It's a tax/hatebears list designed to deal with fast combos and is generally accepted as the best stax list around for such a meta. You could also probably adapt the shell with a different wincon quite well for a BWG list if you don't want to go four colours.