So i am trying to figure out if i should go with atraxa as my superfriends deck, or grab a 5 color (like progenitus) to give me access to the red planewalkers. It is a tough decision buck recently cracking a dack fayden is making me wonder if perhaps i should run red just for him and nicol bolas. There are pros and cons to each answer.
My thought process would be - what am I giving up to splash red? With Atrexa, you are most likely be giving up counter enablers or at least additional ones (ie Thrummingbird).
Another question is how is your mana base? The more ETBT or slow fetches you run, the worse 5c gets. Plus easier to get mana screwed. Along with that being said, would you need to add more mana ramp? If so, again what are you giving up to make your mana base cleaner.
It's up to you. There are pros and cons to adding a 5th colour. I think the red 'wrath everything' cards are really good for superfriends. There isn't much else that you need though.
Well, with red superfriends, you're losing a few sweepers. Mostly Jokulhaups and Obliterate. You're also losing Oath of Chandra and a few red planeswalkers, whatever they're worth. Of course, most of the latter are either bad or goodinotherdecks but not superfriends. Oh, and Volt Charge, big whoop.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Well, with red superfriends, you're losing a few sweepers. Mostly Jokulhaups and Obliterate. You're also losing Oath of Chandra and a few red planeswalkers, whatever they're worth. Of course, most of the latter are either bad or goodinotherdecks but not superfriends. Oh, and Volt Charge, big whoop.
All that said, Atraxa has the most synergy with planeswalkers.
Yes but atraxa does have one major downfall. Lack of self preservation.
Progenitus has pro everything and hivelord has indest. Plus with hjvelord i could go sliver tribal with a heavy focus on PWs.
If you're playing Progenitus, I would just assume you're just using him for the colors. Also, pro-everything doesn't stop everything. (You can still get Wrathed. In fact, the way Superfriends works, you're going to Wrath often.)
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Another question is how is your mana base? The more ETBT or slow fetches you run, the worse 5c gets. Plus easier to get mana screwed. Along with that being said, would you need to add more mana ramp? If so, again what are you giving up to make your mana base cleaner.
As a counterpoint to this statement, 4-color is actually harder to pull off than 5-color because it loses so many land options.
Dual Lands, Shocklands, Check Lands, Battle Lands, Slow Lands, Filter Lands, Gates, any bi-color land cycle - 5c can use all ten, but 4c can only use six
Trilands (budget fixing) - 5c can use all ten, but 4c can only use four
Four color has all of the complications of needing lots of specific colors, but it restricts itself from running large portions of available solutions. I run five color decks, and I've never really had an issue of missing "that one color." If I can get to four colors, I probably already have all five.
All that said, Atraxa has the most synergy with planeswalkers.
Yes, and no. Atraxa can proliferate planeswalkers, but only at end of turn, creating a minor 1 hit point speed bump to anyone trying to kill the walker. Atraxa does not let you proliferate up to enough loyalty right before you ultimate.
On the other hand, there are other five color commanders that do synergize in other ways.
Sliver Queen produces chump blockers to protect your walkers. It also synergizes very well with Doubling Season, which any superfriends deck should be running (as long as they have G).
Sliver Hivelord is indestructible, providing a resilient blocker that can stay even through your own board wipes.
I personally run Sliver Queen, but Atraxa and Hivelord both have points in their favor.
Sliver Hivelord is indestructible, providing a resilient blocker that can stay even through your own board wipes.
I personally run Sliver Queen, but Atraxa and Hivelord both have points in their favor.
I don't have a queen anymore (Sold all the rare slivers years ago and have regretted it since. Legion, Queen, Overlord... FML
BUT i do have Hivelord and I could just go back to teh deck i had before, with a few upgrades (like Deepglow skate) Run a minor sliver tribal deck with utility creatures (Grand Abolisher, Seedborn muse)
I could probably pull it off. Plus i found that Hivelord + Crystalline is hard to deal with.
So, I'm trying to build 5-color super "girlfriends". Every 'walker is a female. In fact, I'd like the rest of the creatures to be female too. I'm not looking to "justify" the inclusion of things like Sun Titan by saying it COULD be a female. My question is this...Aside from the walkers themselves, what else should I be running? Karona is my commander. I'm not looking for breaking the bank. I've just never built a superfriends deck. Not really sure what to put into it...besides Oath of Nissa and Doubling Season.
In 5 colors, there are about 40 female walkers in total (counting each version of Nissa, Liliana, Chandra, etc.). I don't plan on running all of them. I know they don't really energize with each other. I just think it's an interesting idea. Lol
So, I'm trying to build 5-color super "girlfriends". Every 'walker is a female. In fact, I'd like the rest of the creatures to be female too. I'm not looking to "justify" the inclusion of things like Sun Titan by saying it COULD be a female. My question is this...Aside from the walkers themselves, what else should I be running? Karona is my commander. I'm not looking for breaking the bank. I've just never built a superfriends deck. Not really sure what to put into it...besides Oath of Nissa and Doubling Season.
In 5 colors, there are about 40 female walkers in total (counting each version of Nissa, Liliana, Chandra, etc.). I don't plan on running all of them. I know they don't really energize with each other. I just think it's an interesting idea. Lol
I have seen some alters of walker to be genderbent. Female Jace (Jacelyn Beleren) Would alterations of walkers be allowed?
I'd like to stay away from that if possible. Think of it as a deckbuilding challenge. That gender bending does sound interesting. But, I'm already on the fence on even including the oaths from the male walkers. I know the ladies don't play well with each other. I'm really wondering what I can use to fill in the slots after 37 lands and like 37 walkers...unless I just use two versions of each lady...
I'd like to stay away from that if possible. Think of it as a deckbuilding challenge. That gender bending does sound interesting. But, I'm already on the fence on even including the oaths from the male walkers. I know the ladies don't play well with each other. I'm really wondering what I can use to fill in the slots after 37 lands and like 37 walkers...unless I just use two versions of each lady...
Chances are, now you are going to throw in a few more niche card such as potection, Sphere of Safety is a good bet, along with Crawlspace Even Peacekeeper is a great addition. (68)
I'm really wondering what I can use to fill in the slots after 37 lands and like 37 walkers...unless I just use two versions of each lady...
I was ready to reply when I saw this, but I'm glad I read Gashnaw's response, because it contained a lot of the same stuff I would have said.
37 walkers is way too many and will leave you with tons of dead cards in hand and unsupported walkers on the battlefield. I run 21 walkers in a superfriends deck, and I don't run more than 2 versions of any one walker. I used to run up to 3, but I had too many times of drawing multiple versions and having to keep a dead card in hand or having to lose a walker to play a walker. You also need a lot of support cards to keep the walkers alive.
You've made an interesting restriction for your deck. I hope it works out for you.
Thank you, Gashnaw and Funk Dragon. And, to everyone else. I'm really looking forward to building this IRL. I hope to be able to post my findings, as well. As I said before, I'm on the fence about running the oaths like Ajani's and Jace's. Aside from Oath of Nissa, is there any of the oaths that I would truly be hurting without? Looking at them, Ajani's and Giddeon's. Would likely be the ones I "justify" Having walkers cost less and come in with one more loyalty seems pretty good. But, maybe I'm just better with ramp and proliferate? The mana/land from ramp would help with more than just walkers. And, the extra counter can be added other ways. But, having the chumps could be big...I'm only asking because people are always asking if I'm adding them when I mention the deck idea. The last two cards I'm thinking of running are Call the Gatewatch and Deploy the Gatewatch. Are they worth the slots? I mean, it's not like I'm only running a few walkers I want to find specifically...like looking for Elspeth in a Soldier deck. Still...thoughts?
Thank you, Gashnaw and Funk Dragon. And, to everyone else. I'm really looking forward to building this IRL. I hope to be able to post my findings, as well. As I said before, I'm on the fence about running the oaths like Ajani's and Jace's. Aside from Oath of Nissa, is there any of the oaths that I would truly be hurting without? Looking at them, Ajani's and Giddeon's. Would likely be the ones I "justify" Having walkers cost less and come in with one more loyalty seems pretty good. But, maybe I'm just better with ramp and proliferate? The mana/land from ramp would help with more than just walkers. And, the extra counter can be added other ways. But, having the chumps could be big...I'm only asking because people are always asking if I'm adding them when I mention the deck idea. The last two cards I'm thinking of running are Call the Gatewatch and Deploy the Gatewatch. Are they worth the slots? I mean, it's not like I'm only running a few walkers I want to find specifically...like looking for Elspeth in a Soldier deck. Still...thoughts?
I would advise against deploy, 6 mana to possibly hit 2 walkers. If you are on turn 6, have dropped a land every turn and have drawn into deploy without hitting a walker yet, sure it may be a good pick, but I still would not bank on it unless you are running 30+ walkers, which is a very poor decision.
How is running 30+ planeswalkers a poor decision? I've had 5 color superfriends for 3+ years with 30-31 walkers and having a great success with it. The addition of deploy the gatewatch has been great, I've had only a few whiffs on the card(there are similar cards for other types of cards and see play). Also, how has anyone not mention the red black daretti? Protects himself with Tokens that can blow up problematic artifacts as well as best case scenario, three rings of brighthearth
Also, how has anyone not mention the red black daretti? Protects himself with Tokens that can blow up problematic artifacts as well as best case scenario, three rings of brighthearth
Just to provide a counterpoint: I swithched to Atraxa when she came out and my Superfriends deck has never been better. Proliferate is just too good for a Superfriends deck to pass up, and lifelink on the commander help a lot in offesetting the damage you do to yourself with shocks, fetches and Mana Crypt.
You reach your ultimates so much faster with Atraxa, as long as you can defend your planeswalkers. A PW threatening to reach ultimate is usually enough to try and get the table to turn on you, speed is key then.
Nevertheless, if you do plan to go 5 color, Sliver Queen is probably the best choice: 2: Block target creature goes a long way in protecting your pw's.
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If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Nevertheless, if you do plan to go 5 color, Sliver Queen is probably the best choice: 2: Block target creature goes a long way in protecting your pw's.
Sadly i do kot own a queen, but i do own hivelord. Progenitus is just somethi g i have wanted to use as an alternate win con. While people are busy wailing on my PWs i have a 10/10...
While yes Atraxas end step trigger is sweet, there will be people that will gun you down for having her simply as your general(I know, one friend would not shut up because of her existence -.-). I think having the three nicol bolas, Ral zarek, r/b daretti and conflux among anything else I forgot to mention are worth splashing red
While yes Atraxas end step trigger is sweet, there will be people that will gun you down for having her simply as your general(I know, one friend would not shut up because of her existence -.-). I think having the three nicol bolas, Ral zarek, r/b daretti and conflux among anything else I forgot to mention are worth splashing red
Yea, I think I am still gonna go with Progeintus and then if he draws too much hate, I will switch him to something else. i kind of want to avoid Hivelord, as while yes, he does have indestructibility and i can run some sliver to benefit from that. I pull him out and people will see slivers, suspect sliver tribal, and gun for me.
While yes Atraxas end step trigger is sweet, there will be people that will gun you down for having her simply as your general(I know, one friend would not shut up because of her existence -.-). I think having the three nicol bolas, Ral zarek, r/b daretti and conflux among anything else I forgot to mention are worth splashing red
Yea, I think I am still gonna go with Progeintus and then if he draws too much hate, I will switch him to something else. i kind of want to avoid Hivelord, as while yes, he does have indestructibility and i can run some sliver to benefit from that. I pull him out and people will see slivers, suspect sliver tribal, and gun for me.
My general for 5c superfriends is horde of notions. His existence is literally to kill opposing planeswalkers. Nice stats for doing so as well as can put a decent clock on an opponent if nothing better is going on. Plus he draws the least amount of attention when compared to the other selections for 5c. Slivers? **** that guy, child of alara? **** that guy. Horde of notions? Eh he could be tribal *windmill slams a nicol bolas with Doubling season*. Anyone can play anything, I just like killing walkers that are not mine
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Another question is how is your mana base? The more ETBT or slow fetches you run, the worse 5c gets. Plus easier to get mana screwed. Along with that being said, would you need to add more mana ramp? If so, again what are you giving up to make your mana base cleaner.
I buy HP and Damaged cards!
Only EDH:
Sigarda, Host of Herons: Enchantress' Enchantments
Jenara, Asura of War: ETB Value Town
Purphoros, God of the Forge: Global Punishment
Xenagos, God of Revels: Ramp, Sneak, & Heavy Hitters
Ghave, Guru of Spores: Dies_to_Doom_Blade's stax list
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Donald's list
And Sliver Hivelord is the General that survives the most.
Other than Dack and Bolas, Nahiri, the Harbinger is pretty good, Ral Zarek can be good, Chandra, Torch of Defiance is amazing... Sarkhan Unbroken is okay, though the ultimate doesn't do much.
It's up to you. There are pros and cons to adding a 5th colour. I think the red 'wrath everything' cards are really good for superfriends. There isn't much else that you need though.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Now that i think about it. Atraxa can be played in 5 color.
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I have better draw spells for 5 mana
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On the "good red planeswalkers" side, there's Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Possibly Xenagos, the Reveler if you're really getting a lot of tokens. Nahiri, the Harbinger is really good.
All that said, Atraxa has the most synergy with planeswalkers.
On phasing:
Yes but atraxa does have one major downfall. Lack of self preservation.
Progenitus has pro everything and hivelord has indest. Plus with hjvelord i could go sliver tribal with a heavy focus on PWs.
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On phasing:
Dual Lands, Shocklands, Check Lands, Battle Lands, Slow Lands, Filter Lands, Gates, any bi-color land cycle - 5c can use all ten, but 4c can only use six
Trilands (budget fixing) - 5c can use all ten, but 4c can only use four
Four color has all of the complications of needing lots of specific colors, but it restricts itself from running large portions of available solutions. I run five color decks, and I've never really had an issue of missing "that one color." If I can get to four colors, I probably already have all five.
Yeah, I don't think you'll have a problem. Unless someone starts dropping Back to Basics, Ruination, Blood Moon, Magus of the Moon, Wave of Vitriol, etc.
Yes, and no. Atraxa can proliferate planeswalkers, but only at end of turn, creating a minor 1 hit point speed bump to anyone trying to kill the walker. Atraxa does not let you proliferate up to enough loyalty right before you ultimate.
On the other hand, there are other five color commanders that do synergize in other ways.
Sliver Queen produces chump blockers to protect your walkers. It also synergizes very well with Doubling Season, which any superfriends deck should be running (as long as they have G).
Sliver Hivelord is indestructible, providing a resilient blocker that can stay even through your own board wipes.
I personally run Sliver Queen, but Atraxa and Hivelord both have points in their favor.
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I don't have a queen anymore (Sold all the rare slivers years ago and have regretted it since. Legion, Queen, Overlord... FML
BUT i do have Hivelord and I could just go back to teh deck i had before, with a few upgrades (like Deepglow skate) Run a minor sliver tribal deck with utility creatures (Grand Abolisher, Seedborn muse)
I could probably pull it off. Plus i found that Hivelord + Crystalline is hard to deal with.
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In 5 colors, there are about 40 female walkers in total (counting each version of Nissa, Liliana, Chandra, etc.). I don't plan on running all of them. I know they don't really energize with each other. I just think it's an interesting idea. Lol
I have seen some alters of walker to be genderbent. Female Jace (Jacelyn Beleren) Would alterations of walkers be allowed?
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I find the best bet for superfriend is to actually only pay with 20-25 in a deck. With 37 lands and lets go with 22 walkers. With your general, 60 cards done. You are gonna use Doubling Season, rings of Brighthearth, The Chain Veil, And of course make copies of Doubling season with Clever Impersonator and Copy Enchantment. (65 cards)
Chances are, now you are going to throw in a few more niche card such as potection, Sphere of Safety is a good bet, along with Crawlspace Even Peacekeeper is a great addition. (68)
You want more counter production do Deepglow Skate and anything the proliferates, Lets say Contagion Clasp and Contagion Engine. (71)
Now for more nihe creature that really support your deck along with control. Tutors, that fills up the final 29 slots.
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37 walkers is way too many and will leave you with tons of dead cards in hand and unsupported walkers on the battlefield. I run 21 walkers in a superfriends deck, and I don't run more than 2 versions of any one walker. I used to run up to 3, but I had too many times of drawing multiple versions and having to keep a dead card in hand or having to lose a walker to play a walker. You also need a lot of support cards to keep the walkers alive.
You've made an interesting restriction for your deck. I hope it works out for you.
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I would advise against deploy, 6 mana to possibly hit 2 walkers. If you are on turn 6, have dropped a land every turn and have drawn into deploy without hitting a walker yet, sure it may be a good pick, but I still would not bank on it unless you are running 30+ walkers, which is a very poor decision.
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Going 5 color.
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You reach your ultimates so much faster with Atraxa, as long as you can defend your planeswalkers. A PW threatening to reach ultimate is usually enough to try and get the table to turn on you, speed is key then.
Nevertheless, if you do plan to go 5 color, Sliver Queen is probably the best choice: 2: Block target creature goes a long way in protecting your pw's.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
Sadly i do kot own a queen, but i do own hivelord. Progenitus is just somethi g i have wanted to use as an alternate win con. While people are busy wailing on my PWs i have a 10/10...
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Yea, I think I am still gonna go with Progeintus and then if he draws too much hate, I will switch him to something else. i kind of want to avoid Hivelord, as while yes, he does have indestructibility and i can run some sliver to benefit from that. I pull him out and people will see slivers, suspect sliver tribal, and gun for me.
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My general for 5c superfriends is horde of notions. His existence is literally to kill opposing planeswalkers. Nice stats for doing so as well as can put a decent clock on an opponent if nothing better is going on. Plus he draws the least amount of attention when compared to the other selections for 5c. Slivers? **** that guy, child of alara? **** that guy. Horde of notions? Eh he could be tribal *windmill slams a nicol bolas with Doubling season*. Anyone can play anything, I just like killing walkers that are not mine