Yes, I unashamedly say I do that. If I play Jhoira of the ghitu and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'What? Are you afraid of a 2/2 girl?'. If Blightsteel Colossus or any other bomb card is suspended, I say 'Don't worry about it, it is not in play yet' Kaalia of the vast and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'It's an overcosted 4 mana for a 2/2 flier' Momir Vig, Simic Visionary and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'It's an overcosted 5 mana for a 2/2 that has no combat abilities'. Edric, SPymaster of Trest and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'Don't you want to draw cards? I let you draw cards'. Prophet of Kruphix and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'Look, never in the history of untapping kill anybody'.
Come on, I am sure you did the same. Admit it and post here.
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GMR21=OYS, I know you.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Actually, I don't. That stuff would only work until it "goes off". In fact, a lot of times I do the opposite when some of my friends ask about a threat they aren't sure about the level. I may say, "it can be" in response to whether it can be a beatstick or bomb. I believe in teaching/helping my friends on threat analysis. If I'm not inclined to help them in a given situation, I'll just shrug or say nothing. But I may smile slightly and say "Give it a shot and see how it works out for ya."
I don't lie about threat levels, but I may bluff about having a response to their move. When they call me on it, we then laugh when they catch me red-handed. But more often than not I do have a response. That sometimes allows a bluff to work when it more often than not bites them for trying.
I'll be straight up with a novice, unless I purposely throw every "I'm obviously lying" cue into every action and every syllable.
After that, it is straight up misdirection.
"You'd rather kill my Royal Assassin than my 4/4? I mean, sure it could kill you in, how much life do you have? That many turns, but that 4/4, that's [1/4 said amount, rounded up], but hey, it's your life, well, soon to be my 4/4's but, you know."
"Yes you want to get rid of my Maze of Ith that is keeping you from killing me, but in the time it would take to do that, that person's planeswalker can get its ultimate. It's true I might be able to go all out and take you out before then, but that ultimate would still go off, still causing me to lose. Same thing with you, except you have a way to destroy it. Which is more important to you, just making me lose, or still having a chance of winning the entire game?"
I completely agree with underselling your own spell/permanent, but the fact that they are trying to stop you means they want to play that card. If you redirect said individual's gaze towards a scapegoat and let them use said stopping spell/ability, that need will be fulfilled and it will have been thanks to your input, making it possible that they will be less inclined to target you/your things in the near future.
Of my three normal opponents only one lacks in threat assessment abilities. And he usually cues off of the other two. My friends know that Utvara Hellkite is a problem. They know that Omnath, Locus of Rage has to stay off the board. So usually it comes down to either redirecting to another players threat or just accepting and adjusting.
Actually, I don't. That stuff would only work until it "goes off". In fact, a lot of times I do the opposite when some of my friends ask about a threat they aren't sure about the level. I may say, "it can be" in response to whether it can be a beatstick or bomb. I believe in teaching/helping my friends on threat analysis. If I'm not inclined to help them in a given situation, I'll just shrug or say nothing. But I may smile slightly and say "Give it a shot and see how it works out for ya."
I don't lie about threat levels, but I may bluff about having a response to their move. When they call me on it, we then laugh when they catch me red-handed. But more often than not I do have a response. That sometimes allows a bluff to work when it more often than not bites them for trying.
Same here, I like to help playmates analyze the board, and I also have a reputation of being the "puzzle maker" of the group, i.e., I always play highly synergetic decks, every piece is a thread of the grand synergy, and I also have a habit of turning opponents' own threats against them. It's actually easier on my end if I just lay bare the threat level of EVERY card in play, and let playmates decide on their own which is worse. It tends to cause more confusion than trying to downplay the threat.
I stay quiet during a game and try not to influence decisions. I like to see what people are going to do in vivo. If it affects me adversely, I retaliate.
Usually people who make excuses to keep their cards to change my mind get the full force of my wrath.
I am known to be the guy that might blow his own game plan by openly admitting my threat assessment. Decimate on the stack? Yeah, i do assess the situation, and yes i don't mind sharing my thoughts, even if that might turn the target selection against me. It's just that i enjoy games without obvious misplays a lot more and feel like my opponents brewing and playing at their best motivates me a lot in return!
Since my play style is rather unpolitical i never feel like retaliating at all. Why would i waste my spot removal or killing efforts on someone that's not the major threat at the moment? That wouldn't get me closer to winning - worse, it would only make me a kingmaker.
Not trying to sound too full of myself, but i'd say downplaying anything will not work with me. I'm pretty cool headed, one of the better threat callers of my playgroup and know most of them more than well enough to spot bluffs and other "tricks".
I don't try to downplay a threat, I try to keep my opponents aware of the entire board. Basically, I try to let their imaginations run away with them. My responses tend to go like:
"Yeah, I'm doing this. I just played <insert card here> but what about so-and-so and what they just played? Or them over there with that enchantment?"
Basically, I bank on the fact that my opponents are too intelligent to simply be lead by the nose into going after something else. Instead, I try to make them see threats everywhere. I let the information of the game overwhelm them a little and make them second guess or think. Thus their reactions can go one of three ways:
1. They go through and destroy/exile/get rid of my card. (However, I already thought they might do that, so I put that card down as feint so they won't be ready for my next plan)
2. They destroy someone else's threat. (Which still benefits me as I don't have to waste resources doing it myself and I get to keep a resource).
3. Finally, not knowing what to do with so many potential threats on the board, they do nothing and wait. (That gives me more time to think and changes the state of the game. It incriminates the person who's looking to get rid of something, so everyone else starts looking at them. It also makes everyone else aware of others' board states, thus forcing them to reconsider some things)
MtG is a complex game. There's no need to exaggerate or downplay things. The game will speak for itself and from there, the opponent will have to make a decision. Just be ready for whatever decision they make.
The "Really? You think This is the treat at this table?" is a good one but really depends on who im playing. Also if im obviously ahead I drop it, most people wont buy it anyway.
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EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
I don't downplay my own threats, and I'll call you out on it if you downplay yours. Honesty is the best policy!
If your stuff is the best target for their removal, just own it and move forward with the game. Games will get more enjoyable, and actually easier to steer in the direction you want, if everyone is competent at threat assessment.
I only help new players. If I'm playing people I know, I'll usually just point out another threat (that I don't control) as another potential option for their removal/counter magic. Sometimes I'll make a comment like "Fair enough, but I hope you have more removal for that (insert scary threat) here that I bet Adam is holding in his hand..."
I don't really downplay my own threats as it would rarely work anyway. The only time I would really say anything is if I felt that there truly was a more important target to hit controlled by another player; but at that point I wouldn't be really lying or trying to undersell anything.
Most of the time if I want to downplay a threat, I'll make a point of how few options I have. "Man, there is really not much to do here... I guess... Wild Mongrel pass?" If you announce "cardname pass" instead of "cardname, does that resolve," you also have a better chance of letting it resolve.
I very rarely lie. If there's a legitimate reason something I played is not as threatening as it may look (i.e. I'm not running an associated combo, or I don't have strong follow-up plays, etc) then I may provide that information.
More often I just don't play something if I think it's going to cause the table to target it, unless I think I can defend it. And then I offer fair threat assessment to the newer players at the table to draw them towards threatening things others have played. The best way to avoid coming under fire is to avoid becoming the biggest threat until you can actually go for a win. A classic bad EDH player mistake is just running out threats without a cohesive plan. That's an easy way to get focused down and end up with nothing.
I sometimes play people who do the whole "pssh, this (extremely powerful) card? It's not a big deal!" I make a point of explaining to anyone new enough to fall for that sort of idiocy exactly why the downplayer is full of crap. Nice try.
People usually have pretty decent threat assessment, anyway.
I have had the occasional "really, this?" response to a removal and do a surreptitious glance around the board, but for the most part any removal aimed at my stuff is completely warranted.
OP's post downplays also all offer opportunities for "snark back and kill your thing anyway". Which is what I usually do when someone tries to downplay their threats - just shows I am probably pointing the removal at the right thing
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Most of the time if I want to downplay a threat, I'll make a point of how few options I have. "Man, there is really not much to do here... I guess... Wild Mongrel pass?" If you announce "cardname pass" instead of "cardname, does that resolve," you also have a better chance of letting it resolve.
Very good idea. I will follow it this weekend.
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GMR21=OYS, I know you.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Most of the time if I want to downplay a threat, I'll make a point of how few options I have. "Man, there is really not much to do here... I guess... Wild Mongrel pass?" If you announce "cardname pass" instead of "cardname, does that resolve," you also have a better chance of letting it resolve.
Very good idea. I will follow it this weekend.
Problem with that is next guy draws while the blue player is going "Whoa whoa whoa, lemme read it. What else ya got? Cards in hand?"
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Decks:
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
I have a reputation at my shop for lying. It's mostly a joke, but I do make a point of trying to bend a bit of truth and get others to solve problems for me. With new players, I'll be vocal and help teach how to assess threats, especially in a multiplayer environment, and perhaps how to go about juggling politics. Once they have a solid grasp though, I treat games a bit like poker: part of the game itself is learning how to call a bluff, but also about weighing your options.
If I counter that threat, will the combo player go off next turn? If I don't answer it, does player X have a better solution, preferably something they might be forced to use? I played against a Jhoira deck once, didn't know the guy but he seemed chill, and I'd had a bad start - had a lapse of judgement where I decided to tap out to cast a ramp spell, rather than hold up a Counterspell for his next turn Omniscience off suspend (we were all playing Blue, and I mistakenly thought one of the others could handle it). Turned out, he was running a Jhoira deck full of Timetwister abilities, and vomited his entire deck into play.
For this reason, in my playgroup, we have a rule. "If you don't kill him when you have a chance, you will regret it." Even just last weekend, a friend could have killed me with his Exsanguinate, but chose not to, believing I'd be able to help him kill the greater threat. I did, but I also killed him.
Jhoira of the ghitu and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'What? Are you afraid of a 2/2 girl?'. If Blightsteel Colossus or any other bomb card is suspended, I say 'Don't worry about it, it is not in play yet'
Kaalia of the vast and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'It's an overcosted 4 mana for a 2/2 flier'
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'It's an overcosted 5 mana for a 2/2 that has no combat abilities'.
Edric, SPymaster of Trest and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'Don't you want to draw cards? I let you draw cards'.
Prophet of Kruphix and somebody wants to kill it, I say 'Look, never in the history of untapping kill anybody'.
Come on, I am sure you did the same. Admit it and post here.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
I don't lie about threat levels, but I may bluff about having a response to their move. When they call me on it, we then laugh when they catch me red-handed. But more often than not I do have a response. That sometimes allows a bluff to work when it more often than not bites them for trying.
After that, it is straight up misdirection.
"You'd rather kill my Royal Assassin than my 4/4? I mean, sure it could kill you in, how much life do you have? That many turns, but that 4/4, that's [1/4 said amount, rounded up], but hey, it's your life, well, soon to be my 4/4's but, you know."
"Yes you want to get rid of my Maze of Ith that is keeping you from killing me, but in the time it would take to do that, that person's planeswalker can get its ultimate. It's true I might be able to go all out and take you out before then, but that ultimate would still go off, still causing me to lose. Same thing with you, except you have a way to destroy it. Which is more important to you, just making me lose, or still having a chance of winning the entire game?"
I completely agree with underselling your own spell/permanent, but the fact that they are trying to stop you means they want to play that card. If you redirect said individual's gaze towards a scapegoat and let them use said stopping spell/ability, that need will be fulfilled and it will have been thanks to your input, making it possible that they will be less inclined to target you/your things in the near future.
Same here, I like to help playmates analyze the board, and I also have a reputation of being the "puzzle maker" of the group, i.e., I always play highly synergetic decks, every piece is a thread of the grand synergy, and I also have a habit of turning opponents' own threats against them. It's actually easier on my end if I just lay bare the threat level of EVERY card in play, and let playmates decide on their own which is worse. It tends to cause more confusion than trying to downplay the threat.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Usually people who make excuses to keep their cards to change my mind get the full force of my wrath.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I am known to be the guy that might blow his own game plan by openly admitting my threat assessment. Decimate on the stack? Yeah, i do assess the situation, and yes i don't mind sharing my thoughts, even if that might turn the target selection against me. It's just that i enjoy games without obvious misplays a lot more and feel like my opponents brewing and playing at their best motivates me a lot in return!
Since my play style is rather unpolitical i never feel like retaliating at all. Why would i waste my spot removal or killing efforts on someone that's not the major threat at the moment? That wouldn't get me closer to winning - worse, it would only make me a kingmaker.
Not trying to sound too full of myself, but i'd say downplaying anything will not work with me. I'm pretty cool headed, one of the better threat callers of my playgroup and know most of them more than well enough to spot bluffs and other "tricks".
"Yeah, I'm doing this. I just played <insert card here> but what about so-and-so and what they just played? Or them over there with that enchantment?"
Basically, I bank on the fact that my opponents are too intelligent to simply be lead by the nose into going after something else. Instead, I try to make them see threats everywhere. I let the information of the game overwhelm them a little and make them second guess or think. Thus their reactions can go one of three ways:
1. They go through and destroy/exile/get rid of my card. (However, I already thought they might do that, so I put that card down as feint so they won't be ready for my next plan)
2. They destroy someone else's threat. (Which still benefits me as I don't have to waste resources doing it myself and I get to keep a resource).
3. Finally, not knowing what to do with so many potential threats on the board, they do nothing and wait. (That gives me more time to think and changes the state of the game. It incriminates the person who's looking to get rid of something, so everyone else starts looking at them. It also makes everyone else aware of others' board states, thus forcing them to reconsider some things)
MtG is a complex game. There's no need to exaggerate or downplay things. The game will speak for itself and from there, the opponent will have to make a decision. Just be ready for whatever decision they make.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
If your stuff is the best target for their removal, just own it and move forward with the game. Games will get more enjoyable, and actually easier to steer in the direction you want, if everyone is competent at threat assessment.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsDoesn't matter what card it is, say it anyway
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
See? This guy gets it
BGGRock
Modern
BRGJund
BBGRock
Jarad Graveyard Combo[Primer]!
Sidisi ANT!
Playing Commander to Win - A guide on Competitive, 4-player EDH
LandDestruction.com - An EDH blog
More often I just don't play something if I think it's going to cause the table to target it, unless I think I can defend it. And then I offer fair threat assessment to the newer players at the table to draw them towards threatening things others have played. The best way to avoid coming under fire is to avoid becoming the biggest threat until you can actually go for a win. A classic bad EDH player mistake is just running out threats without a cohesive plan. That's an easy way to get focused down and end up with nothing.
I sometimes play people who do the whole "pssh, this (extremely powerful) card? It's not a big deal!" I make a point of explaining to anyone new enough to fall for that sort of idiocy exactly why the downplayer is full of crap. Nice try.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
People usually have pretty decent threat assessment, anyway.
I have had the occasional "really, this?" response to a removal and do a surreptitious glance around the board, but for the most part any removal aimed at my stuff is completely warranted.
OP's post downplays also all offer opportunities for "snark back and kill your thing anyway". Which is what I usually do when someone tries to downplay their threats - just shows I am probably pointing the removal at the right thing
Very good idea. I will follow it this weekend.
Salt is part of the game. Deal with it.
Problem with that is next guy draws while the blue player is going "Whoa whoa whoa, lemme read it. What else ya got? Cards in hand?"
Modern: Jund
Legacy: Pox
EDH: Chainer Reanimation and The Dragon Show, with Zirilan of the Claw
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
If I counter that threat, will the combo player go off next turn? If I don't answer it, does player X have a better solution, preferably something they might be forced to use? I played against a Jhoira deck once, didn't know the guy but he seemed chill, and I'd had a bad start - had a lapse of judgement where I decided to tap out to cast a ramp spell, rather than hold up a Counterspell for his next turn Omniscience off suspend (we were all playing Blue, and I mistakenly thought one of the others could handle it). Turned out, he was running a Jhoira deck full of Timetwister abilities, and vomited his entire deck into play.
For this reason, in my playgroup, we have a rule. "If you don't kill him when you have a chance, you will regret it." Even just last weekend, a friend could have killed me with his Exsanguinate, but chose not to, believing I'd be able to help him kill the greater threat. I did, but I also killed him.