On that note of the doublers, I'll probably go ahead and say that Doubling Season is not at all a necessity.
Not only is it expensive, but it draws a stupid ton of aggro because well.. it's Doubling Season, even though you are just playing it as another Parallel Lives.
I personally find that people will trash it as soon as they see it because everyone will assume that there are some number of planeswalkers that you are sandbagging that will be capable of getting their ultimates immediately.
I really like this deck. I am looking at trying to build a deck that is not a traditional massive token deck. From what I can see, I don't think any creature doublers would be needed to make this deck work. Only thing I would suggest, maybe because it is based on play group, is some more control.
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Giant Adephage becomes broken when you have ways to multiply tokens. In a casual setting it can get extremely out of hand. Spot removal isn't enough when you start making copies of it.
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On that note of the doublers, I'll probably go ahead and say that Doubling Season is not at all a necessity.
Not only is it expensive, but it draws a stupid ton of aggro because well.. it's Doubling Season, even though you are just playing it as another Parallel Lives.
I personally find that people will trash it as soon as they see it because everyone will assume that there are some number of planeswalkers that you are sandbagging that will be capable of getting their ultimates immediately.
I'll have to test out Anointed Procession before deciding if Parallel Lives is worth running. I guess jumping to Doubling Season was an overreaction.
I really like this deck. I am looking at trying to build a deck that is not a traditional massive token deck. From what I can see, I don't think any creature doublers would be needed to make this deck work. Only thing I would suggest, maybe because it is based on play group, is some more control.
Thanks! I kind of also got bored with going superwide and once I saw that Trostani could copy any token I wanted to do something interesting. Plus lifegain stapled to each creature isn't bad.
Giant Adephage becomes broken when you have ways to multiply tokens. In a casual setting it can get extremely out of hand. Spot removal isn't enough when you start making copies of it.
I don't go wide enough for Epic Struggle to ever proc; it was in my first draft but dropped once I saw that the deck more about quality than quantity. Next time I ruffle through my cards, I guess I'll make the Adephage switch. Originally, the deck didn't feel like it had enough ramp for the big stuff, but now I'm itching to add a few more haymakers as I feel like the ramp has bevelled out.
While Wurm provides more math in the form of 10 per instance of it; each body being a 5/5 is not that impressive to me. Adephage, on the other hand, provides mana symbols for Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, as well as a scary 7/7 body. 5/5 may have been the old big and some creatures dance with the possibility of being 6/6s, 7/7s are rarer and therefore are much more threatening. Especially when a single point of combat damage could lead to another Adephage. The Wurm was a solid choice but failed my 6+ CMC test of 'Can this win me the game if left unchecked?' The Wurm could easily be checked and the Adephage, in comparison, is harder to check with its ability to double itself without any help from Rhys the Redeemed, Blade of Selves or Trostani herself.
I already earmarked Explosive Vegetation for a cut, so while I was agonizing over what to cut I decided to chop it even if it is not related to what's going in.
At first I thought to cut Shamanic Revelation, but I need more card draw not less with Trostani. I set up a fairly resource heavy board so when someone Wraths it I need to bounce back quickly. Shamanic is similar to Mouth to Feed but Mouth comes with a token, something I really want! That made me think of cutting Wall of Blossoms because Mouth to Feed replaces itself like Blossoms, but I like it because it is an early wall that draws me a card and is decent if turned into a token. I've been finding Intangible Virtue to be lacklustre, but after today's game it was pretty damned good - I'm glad I didn't cut it. Vigilance in Multiplayer cannot be underestimated, the +1/+1 is a nice bonus. Vegetation was originally earmarked as a replacement for Nissa, Vastwood Seer because it's a green card advantage engine which is relatively rare; I can't remember who said it but Nissa was Green's Answer to Phyrexian Arena. Well, with the decision that Vegetation was the weakest card was made me to make the swap.
The only problem now is I don't know what cards to cut in the future. Previously, I thought Seance was subpar and it proved me wrong with a lot of value. Intangible Virtue was being considered for a cut but I saw it in action today and it was great. The next cards I might consider is Asceticism or True Conviction because they don't focus on making me awesome tokens but each of those are an absolute house against a great many decks.
I guess I'm at the good point where it's hard to make cuts.
I think Sandwurm Convergence is a good card to add. Not only does it solve your flying commander problem, it also gives you tokens worth copying.
Besides Paralell Lives, there's also Primal Vigor. If you don't need the double +1/+1 counters much, Paralell Lives is obviously better but it could be Paralell Lives #3 for redundancy.
I don't know if you still have issues activating Mirrorpool but you could opt to add 1 Wastes to the deck. It's basic so easily tutorable and provides the C you need.
I see you just added it, but if you do not already run Rishkar's Expertise, it's way better than Mouth // Feed. Even without the Hippo token.
I forgot the name, but there's a 6/6 trample with Embalm for 4 in Amonkhet, that would also be good for this deck.
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I'm looking at having a go at a similar build, but with a couple of embalm creatures as well, given an embalmed creature comes back as a token.
I have a feeling Trostani would enjoy multiplying an embalmed Angel of Sanctions...
I think Sandwurm Convergence is a good card to add. Not only does it solve your flying commander problem, it also gives you tokens worth copying.
Besides Paralell Lives, there's also Primal Vigor. If you don't need the double +1/+1 counters much, Paralell Lives is obviously better but it could be Paralell Lives #3 for redundancy.
I don't know if you still have issues activating Mirrorpool but you could opt to add 1 Wastes to the deck. It's basic so easily tutorable and provides the C you need.
I see you just added it, but if you do not already run Rishkar's Expertise, it's way better than Mouth // Feed. Even without the Hippo token.
I forgot the name, but there's a 6/6 trample with Embalm for 4 in Amonkhet, that would also be good for this deck.
I'm afraid of cutting creatures or token creatures for things that don't do that, such as a Parallel Lives or Primal Vigor.
Don't need Wastes for my deck, I've just recently added Saltcrusted Steppe which has impressed me in its utility. There are times when the deck is mana inefficient, this allows me to store up some of that and spend it bursts; such as recasting my Commander after a Wrath. Not including Mirrorpool, I have 10 Nonbasics that provide colorless in addition to Sol Ring.
I'll add Rishkar's Expertise, we'll see if it's good.
As for Honored Hydra, it didn't pass my "6+ CMC" Test which is if I believe that I can realistically rely on this card to close out games. Anything that costs more than 6 should be able to win you the game and a 6/6 Trampler does not fit within that requirement. I cut a much better Armada Wurm for an even better card of Giant Adephage. So, no - not considering Honored Hydra.
I figured that True Conviction and Asceticism don't help me win when I'm behind; though True Conviction is one hell of a game sealer. I'm not interested in shoring up my losses in games I might lose rather than focus on clearing out games I've definitely won. Sandwurm stops a major weakness but also provides continual value. Rishkar's Expertise just ties further into the deck's weakness of running out of gas after using so many haymakers. So, giving it a shot.
I'm looking at having a go at a similar build, but with a couple of embalm creatures as well, given an embalmed creature comes back as a token.
I have a feeling Trostani would enjoy multiplying an embalmed Angel of Sanctions...
Angel of Sanctions is something I would like to add to the deck, but it's $8 when I feel like I can probably trade for that rather than snapping it up for a dollar or two, like Sandwurm Convergence. Even still, not sure if I have room even with the awesome utility the Angel provides.
Once I found out how low Burgeoning's price bottomed out, I added one to this deck. It'll be great when I draw a huge hand and then get value, or just early power out Trostani, Selesnya's Voice. I'm cutting the Cultivate because my Wort needs it, but my goal is to eventually cut all of the impermanent ramp unless it's bonkers (Tempt with Discovery) or hyperefficient (2 drops).
Rampaging Baloths have been on my *****list for a little while. They've been failing the 6+ Test - can this card, if left unanswered, win me the game? I've been finding that with all of my card draw, when I dig them up I have better things to play. If I topdeck them, they're not guaranteed to get any value because I tend to get to 8-10 Lands pretty quickly and then stall out. I just didn't know what to replace it with that didn't cost more and Hour of Devastation finally came to my help.
Crested Sunmare will make me lots of Indestructible sizable Horses. I know that Angelic Accord already passed the sniff test and this is another one. If I ever am able to make a token copy and populated Sunmare, suddenly all my Horses are Indestructible. While it isn't a 6 drop, I do think it is more powerful than the Baloths.
In Rampaging Baloths defense, I run it in my Polukranos deck (in my sig) and it's amazing. It's just more of a niche card even though it may not seem like it at first.
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Took out some OK draw for something more serious, essentially a draw engine that I could probably abuse in Trostani. If I gain at least 8 life per rotation, that's 2 extra cards I'm drawing.
Hour of Promise gets me two lands without finagling with Tempting. Hour of Revelation is strictly better than Planar Cleansing. I've been not that impressed with Baloths, the Sunmare is great and its trigger is similar to Angelic Accord which I already am impressed with. I did forget to get those Horse tokens, so I'll grab them later.
I've changed up my Wants a little. I think I'll keep going wide with Parallel Lives as my Enchantment, earmarking Cathars' Crusade for the cut. Crusade lets me go tall and I'll admit that's great, but going wide has its own advantages for my life gain strategy, it's lower on the curve and combined with Anointed Procession I get quad the tokens. I've decided to add Beast Within as more spot removal, I'm cutting Advent of the Wurm, it's not that impressive and at the very worse I can kill one of my own Creatures to give Trostani something to populate. Nissa, Vastwood Seer stays on the Wants, hoping it'll drop more in price and I've earmarked Kodama's Reach as the cut. I want more bodies and more draw engines. Temple Garden can replace a basic of some sort.
Hey tev have you considered updating the front page list. You have made enough changes in the change log that its hard to tell whats in the main body of the actual list anymore.
If anything, I'm considering the G/W Ajani that looks at the top 3 and puts all nonland permanents into your hand over Well of Lost Dreams and I'm considering the G/W Fastland, though the Shockland would be a lot better. I do feel a little light on Plains, so the next cut would be a Forest.
I really appreciate the effort that been put into this build. I run Trostani myself, and I was dire for some new ideas for my deck as it had gone unupdated since Dragons. Thanks to your tips I've been able to win two out of my last six games in a commander league (Doesn't sound like much, but my local meta loves their infinite combos)
That's great to hear. I just wanted to do something funky with Trostani and making copies of nontoken-type Creatures just made me laugh. Once the engine gets going people have a hard time believing what's going on.
Advent of the Wurm has been failing to impress for a long time now, I just didn't know what to replace it with. Having a catch-all answer is never bad, so Beast Within slots in.
Thinking about my deck, I realize I'm also not the happiest with Eldrazi Monument. This could be another case where it's an excellent win-more but doesn't dig me out of games where I'm having problems. Thinking about it more and more, I would really want an Archangel of Thune. Having multiple copies of that would probably be very difficult for my opponents to handle.
also plus side thune give +1 for all the lifegain you get building around sunmare and such. I personally never used advent since it was 1 time use and even as a instant it just never thrilled my need for tokens.
One card I've recently put into my Trostani deck to fair success is the new Crested Sunmare. Getting an indestructable 5/5 token on -any- end step so long as you gained life(and when you have Trostani on the board, it's not 'if', it's 'when')? It's a great card in its own, doubly so if you can make copies of it since that makes the two of them indestructible too in addition to the tokens
I've been finding that I've been short on Plains a few times, so I cut a Forest this time 'round for Temple Garden. With its typing, I have a spare dual that I can Farseek, Wood Elves and/or Krosan Verge.
I've been finding a major problem with the deck is that if it ever gets out card advantaged, which is why I've been pushing towards superior engines. Well of Lost Dreams was a case of 'nobody got time for that', as I would need to cast or Populate and then have enough mana left over to pay for card draw. Or worse still, I wouldn't have Trostani in play because she got wrathed and then I'd have to jump through even more hoops to get a card advantage engine in place. With Ajani, his +2 nets me nonland permanents which is almost half of the deck and is what I mostly desire. His minus is an answer to problem Creatures. I have no intention of using his ult, doesn't look that interesting for me.
Also, if you're looking to replace Eldrazi Monument, i think Growing Ranks would make a fine replacement. It also helps you when you're out-card advantaged, since it will help you rebuild faster.
Also, not sure what to cast for it you want to run it, but Wurmcalling seems like a good insurance against never having any creatures. It's not the most efficient card but it does scale later into the game and if you always buy it back you will never be without a token (And works well with Growing Ranks in that respect!).
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Panharmonicon for this deck yet. It has synergy with your commander (will double your life gain), and you have a lot of creatures with very powerful ETB abilities that would really elevate your game (Eternal Witness, Acidic Slime, Avenger of Zendikar). In terms of suggestions to make room for it, how has Sword of the Animist been for you? You're in green, so I think you have access to better ramp. Indeed, you have plenty of that already in your deck (Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, Farseek, etc).
Also, if you're looking to replace Eldrazi Monument, i think Growing Ranks would make a fine replacement. It also helps you when you're out-card advantaged, since it will help you rebuild faster.
Also, not sure what to cast for it you want to run it, but Wurmcalling seems like a good insurance against never having any creatures. It's not the most efficient card but it does scale later into the game and if you always buy it back you will never be without a token (And works well with Growing Ranks in that respect!).
I've tried Hour of Revelation and it hasn't impressed me. If I were to make a change towards my Wrath suite, it would be adding Rout in the place of Fumigate. Fumigate is just to help me bump above 40/50 for Feldiar Sovereign and Aetherflux Reservoir. Tokens are a common strategy, as players don't have to risk actual cards, just a token maker. I found too often it wouldn't deal with the actual problem.
I've cut Growing Ranks as well. I found that it didn't do anything about half of the time because I didn't have a token during my upkeep, or nothing worth Populating (like an Eldrazi Spawn). I'm trying to move away from cards that are good with other cards, I like each of my cards to be independently good. I think I need something more like Phyrexian Processor, something that makes tokens rather another Populate Enchantment.
Wurmcalling is getting more attractive as an option. I easily have 10 mana in the mid-late game, so making 6/6s on demand is not a bad option. I was just hoping for something more efficient.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Panharmonicon for this deck yet. It has synergy with your commander (will double your life gain), and you have a lot of creatures with very powerful ETB abilities that would really elevate your game (Eternal Witness, Acidic Slime, Avenger of Zendikar). In terms of suggestions to make room for it, how has Sword of the Animist been for you? You're in green, so I think you have access to better ramp. Indeed, you have plenty of that already in your deck (Farhaven Elf, Wood Elves, Farseek, etc).
Panharmonicon is another card that good with other cards, something can possibly be a dead draw and that's something I would avoid. The deck doesn't have that much ETBs and doubling my Commander's life gain isn't that attractive to me. If I added more ETBs it might be better, but then that's a different deck.
I like Sword of the Animist because it gives me an excuse to attack with a small Creature to get a benefit, something people are understanding and don't go bananas over. The Sword then proceeds to ramp me and thin my draws. I think it's a great card and that's why I know its price has risen over the last few months.
Not only is it expensive, but it draws a stupid ton of aggro because well.. it's Doubling Season, even though you are just playing it as another Parallel Lives.
I personally find that people will trash it as soon as they see it because everyone will assume that there are some number of planeswalkers that you are sandbagging that will be capable of getting their ultimates immediately.
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Epic Struggle as an alternative wincon?
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I'll have to test out Anointed Procession before deciding if Parallel Lives is worth running. I guess jumping to Doubling Season was an overreaction.
Thanks! I kind of also got bored with going superwide and once I saw that Trostani could copy any token I wanted to do something interesting. Plus lifegain stapled to each creature isn't bad.
I don't go wide enough for Epic Struggle to ever proc; it was in my first draft but dropped once I saw that the deck more about quality than quantity. Next time I ruffle through my cards, I guess I'll make the Adephage switch. Originally, the deck didn't feel like it had enough ramp for the big stuff, but now I'm itching to add a few more haymakers as I feel like the ramp has bevelled out.
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1 Giant Adephage
1 Armada Wurm
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1 Mouth // Feed
1 Explosive Vegetation
The only problem now is I don't know what cards to cut in the future. Previously, I thought Seance was subpar and it proved me wrong with a lot of value. Intangible Virtue was being considered for a cut but I saw it in action today and it was great. The next cards I might consider is Asceticism or True Conviction because they don't focus on making me awesome tokens but each of those are an absolute house against a great many decks.
I guess I'm at the good point where it's hard to make cuts.
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Besides Paralell Lives, there's also Primal Vigor. If you don't need the double +1/+1 counters much, Paralell Lives is obviously better but it could be Paralell Lives #3 for redundancy.
I don't know if you still have issues activating Mirrorpool but you could opt to add 1 Wastes to the deck. It's basic so easily tutorable and provides the C you need.
I see you just added it, but if you do not already run Rishkar's Expertise, it's way better than Mouth // Feed. Even without the Hippo token.
I forgot the name, but there's a 6/6 trample with Embalm for 4 in Amonkhet, that would also be good for this deck.
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I have a feeling Trostani would enjoy multiplying an embalmed Angel of Sanctions...
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Don't need Wastes for my deck, I've just recently added Saltcrusted Steppe which has impressed me in its utility. There are times when the deck is mana inefficient, this allows me to store up some of that and spend it bursts; such as recasting my Commander after a Wrath. Not including Mirrorpool, I have 10 Nonbasics that provide colorless in addition to Sol Ring.
I'll add Rishkar's Expertise, we'll see if it's good.
As for Honored Hydra, it didn't pass my "6+ CMC" Test which is if I believe that I can realistically rely on this card to close out games. Anything that costs more than 6 should be able to win you the game and a 6/6 Trampler does not fit within that requirement. I cut a much better Armada Wurm for an even better card of Giant Adephage. So, no - not considering Honored Hydra. Sounds like a plan. That's the change I made:
1 Sandwurm Convergence
1 Rishkar's Expertise
1 True Conviction
1 Asceticism
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1 Burgeoning
1 Cultivate
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Crested Sunmare will make me lots of Indestructible sizable Horses. I know that Angelic Accord already passed the sniff test and this is another one. If I ever am able to make a token copy and populated Sunmare, suddenly all my Horses are Indestructible. While it isn't a 6 drop, I do think it is more powerful than the Baloths.
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1 Sylvan Library
1 Wall of Blossoms
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1 Hour of Promise
1 Hour of Revelation
1 Crested Sunmare
1 Tempt with Discovery
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Rampaging Baloths
I've changed up my Wants a little. I think I'll keep going wide with Parallel Lives as my Enchantment, earmarking Cathars' Crusade for the cut. Crusade lets me go tall and I'll admit that's great, but going wide has its own advantages for my life gain strategy, it's lower on the curve and combined with Anointed Procession I get quad the tokens. I've decided to add Beast Within as more spot removal, I'm cutting Advent of the Wurm, it's not that impressive and at the very worse I can kill one of my own Creatures to give Trostani something to populate. Nissa, Vastwood Seer stays on the Wants, hoping it'll drop more in price and I've earmarked Kodama's Reach as the cut. I want more bodies and more draw engines. Temple Garden can replace a basic of some sort.
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Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
If anything, I'm considering the G/W Ajani that looks at the top 3 and puts all nonland permanents into your hand over Well of Lost Dreams and I'm considering the G/W Fastland, though the Shockland would be a lot better. I do feel a little light on Plains, so the next cut would be a Forest.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Made the following changes:
1 Beast Within
1 Advent of the Wurm
Thinking about my deck, I realize I'm also not the happiest with Eldrazi Monument. This could be another case where it's an excellent win-more but doesn't dig me out of games where I'm having problems. Thinking about it more and more, I would really want an Archangel of Thune. Having multiple copies of that would probably be very difficult for my opponents to handle.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
1 Temple Garden
1 Ajani Unyielding
1 Forest
1 Well of Lost Dreams
I've been finding a major problem with the deck is that if it ever gets out card advantaged, which is why I've been pushing towards superior engines. Well of Lost Dreams was a case of 'nobody got time for that', as I would need to cast or Populate and then have enough mana left over to pay for card draw. Or worse still, I wouldn't have Trostani in play because she got wrathed and then I'd have to jump through even more hoops to get a card advantage engine in place. With Ajani, his +2 nets me nonland permanents which is almost half of the deck and is what I mostly desire. His minus is an answer to problem Creatures. I have no intention of using his ult, doesn't look that interesting for me.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs
Also, if you're looking to replace Eldrazi Monument, i think Growing Ranks would make a fine replacement. It also helps you when you're out-card advantaged, since it will help you rebuild faster.
Also, not sure what to cast for it you want to run it, but Wurmcalling seems like a good insurance against never having any creatures. It's not the most efficient card but it does scale later into the game and if you always buy it back you will never be without a token (And works well with Growing Ranks in that respect!).
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Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsI've cut Growing Ranks as well. I found that it didn't do anything about half of the time because I didn't have a token during my upkeep, or nothing worth Populating (like an Eldrazi Spawn). I'm trying to move away from cards that are good with other cards, I like each of my cards to be independently good. I think I need something more like Phyrexian Processor, something that makes tokens rather another Populate Enchantment.
Wurmcalling is getting more attractive as an option. I easily have 10 mana in the mid-late game, so making 6/6s on demand is not a bad option. I was just hoping for something more efficient.
Panharmonicon is another card that good with other cards, something can possibly be a dead draw and that's something I would avoid. The deck doesn't have that much ETBs and doubling my Commander's life gain isn't that attractive to me. If I added more ETBs it might be better, but then that's a different deck.
I like Sword of the Animist because it gives me an excuse to attack with a small Creature to get a benefit, something people are understanding and don't go bananas over. The Sword then proceeds to ramp me and thin my draws. I think it's a great card and that's why I know its price has risen over the last few months.
Mid-Tier: Marchesa Aggro Rose Asmadi Get Dire Tymna Ikra Woke Women Tiana Aura Angel Ruric Thar SMASH Smasher Kraum Mana Positivity Zur Slides
Filthy Casual: WUBRG Jodah WUBRG WUBRG Fatties WUBRG Gahiji Vigilant Vengeance Ezuri Mysterious Morphs