Hey everyone i just started playing magic a few months ago and would like some pointers on my Olivia Voldaren deck I just made. I need help narrowing it down/defining the strategy. It's basically a bunch of steal your opponents creatures, and sacrifice them deck, but I feel I need it to be stronger in order to win. Iknow there are too many cards in here and it's not very cohesive but that's why i'm posting. I need to know what to take out, leave in, and add and maybe a redefining of the strategy from others who have played this deck.
Thank you so much for your help
You need to add "1 " before the name of the card or it wont display correctly (for them to work with [deck][/deck]-tags). The number is used to indicate how many copies you run of the card which is terribly relevant for edh but it is handy for some cards like basic lands. You can also divide the cards into sections like "INSTANTS:" but they can be anything from "noncreatures" to "cards with hats in the art" just make sure there is no empty row between the title of the section and the cards in the section
Yes:
[deck]
INSTANTS:
1 Act of Aggression
1 Chaos Warp
1 Go for the Throat
1 Grab the Reins
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Terminate
1 Urge to Feed
1 Victim of Night
[/deck]
No:
[deck]
INSTANTS:
1 Act of Aggression
1 Chaos Warp
1 Go for the Throat
1 Grab the Reins
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Terminate
1 Urge to Feed
1 Victim of Night
[/deck]
Quote my post so you can easily just cut and paste your list.
Is this suppose to be a complete decklist? I only count 83 cards and only 10 of them are lands. Which Olivia you are using as the commander. You have only listed Olivia, Mobilized for War but there is also Olivia Voldaren which imo suits much better for the "steal and sac" -plan.
First off, this is the incorrect spot to place decklists. A mod will move it shortly, I'm sure, so don't worry too much about it, but be aware in the future.
Secondly, welcome to Magic, specifically EDH/Commander. You're gonna have fun(with a touch of frustration...it's all part of the game)!
Third: Check this thread for some help on tags. Specifically, how to get your cards sorted into a decklist when you're done. It's VERY handy. Good job on the card tags, though.
Now, some basic points to give(I built an Olivia Voldaren deck some time ago, though it's been sold since);
1. Victim of Night and such cards have to go. They are FAR too narrow in their restrictions to be useful, and if this is your only removal, and people are swinging with zombie/vampire/werewolf tribal, you are up a certain creek without a paddle.
2. The lands you have are nice(I'm assuming you're going to fill out the rest with basics), but I would recommend filling out some more, if you have the budget. Blood Crypt and Dragonskull Summit are great to start with, and Rocky Tar Pit or stuff like Grixis Panorama can help out. When your deck becomes less about the basics and more about dual lands, start adding stuff like Expedition Map to keep the mana flowing.
3. Easiest way(and one of the most effective) to have a win-con is to build around your general's strength(s). Olivia is the master of pinging and mind controlling. Run with that. She gives +1/+1 counters to herself...what if there's a way to redistribute them to your other guys? How hilarious would it be to wait for someone to build their commander up for lethal commander damage, and then swoop in to steal it for your own kill? Stick with those for now, instead of trying to get too fancy with win con. That can come later.
4. That being said, you DO want a back-up wincon, even if it's just swinging with every creature you have and overwhelming. Try to make sure your backup doesn't require your general on the board, because that is often the first target for removal spells/abilities
Now, specifics on your cards; Victim of Night far too situational Wrangle useful in early game, but sometimes not even then. EDH isn't often about speed(note that there are decks out there that can win on turn 3), and your biggest threat will often be guys just out of range. I would pitch. Dregs of Sorrow Already expensive to cast, and you don't have ways of flooding yourself with mana to make it worthwhile until it's (probably) already too late. I would pitch. Yourboardwipes are great, but also suffer from not being cheap. It may take time, but consider getting a Damnation when you can afford it. I'm not certain how many other budget options you may have in BR, but keep an eye out in your local shop.
To replace some of your removal and card manipulation, go with stuff like Hero's Downfall, Doom Blade or Murder. You have Go For the Throat, which is another good one; just be mindful that you don't accidentally target an artifact creature(it's not nearly as obvious as it once was, lol).
On the previous point, perhaps get rid of all the cards that manipulate opponent's hands. That can be a wincon to revisit in the future, but for your first deck, that's just stretching yourself too thin. Get more card draw(black has that in abundance; Sign in Blood is just the beginning) and tutors(Some people suggest Diabolic Revelation, but for you I would suggest Increasing Ambition and when you can afford it, Demonic Tutor. Mindcrank, and those cards like it, are dangerous to play. Graveyard reanimation is a serious thing, and there's nothing more these guys like than to have one of their wincon fatties show up in the graveyard. If you want to keep those types of cards, consider going for broke and playing Leyline of the Void to cripple them. Downside is, it hurts you pretty bad too.
Final note(and mind you, this may not work as often as you wish, but it's hilarious when it does): Braid of Fire. Now that mana burn is no longer a thing, if you leave it sit, then bring in Olivia when you're going to get a ton of R mana...;)
Hey thanks so much for the reply and the advice, and with being patient with my noobness on the site. I appreciate your help. I had Mind Crank in there to combo with Bloodchief Ascension for an win condition, not sure if that might be too rare to occur in the game that I get both those cards, especially since the games i play my cards usually don't stick around as long. Anyway appreciate the feedback
Not a problem at all, that's what we're here for. We all started at some point, and we all asked the same questions. No judgment here, just advice...most of it good.
First of all, you can never have enough mana..ever. Olivia Voldaren is a mana sink, so your ability to cast cards from your hand and use her abilities, make this a tricky deck to find a balance.
I like Braid of Fire in this deck, to speed mana freely in your upkeep to shoot things with Olivia.
Giving Olivia "Deathtouch" is a killer combo (can shoot for 1 and kill any creature). Basilisk Collar is cheap equipment that you can use for this effect.
You have waaaay too many sacrifice outlets. I understand that you 9 creature steal cards, but you can cast the instant ones with right timing to probably block and kill anyway. Too be honest when you look at these cards you're effectively playing them in the deck as alternatives to your commander, which means with your Commander out, they are effectively dead cards in many ways. I personally don't feel the synergy is there. Its a lot of cards (SAC + Steal), where you might want to focus on protecting your commander or getting setup with heaps of mana, so that casting Olivia out several times will pull you through.
Sorry I kind off abandoned this post I've had a lot going on since this post and haven't been able to put alot of time towards magic. Thanks for all the replies. I built the deck and it works pretty well but i still feel like I don't have a specialized strategy and am doing too many things at once. Here's the current decklist:
Also I have a Grave Pact en route will be adding that soon, but what should i switch it out with. I'll also be switching plague win with in garruks wake soon.
Any other Thoughts?
Thanks
P.S. this is literally the best I could get the decklist to work took me forever im just leave it at that sorry
Thank you so much for your help
DECK
CREATURES:
Anowon, the Ruin Sage
Blood Artist
Blood Seeker
Bloodflow Connoisseur
Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
Bloodthrone Vampire
Butcher of Malakir
Captivating Vampire
Conquering Manticore
Crypt Rats
Dark Impostor
Disciple of Griselbrand
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Falkenrath Aristocrat
Falkenrath Noble
Goblin Sharpshooter
Heirs of Stromkirk
Jeering Instigator
Necropolis Regent
Olivia, Mobilized for War
Pawn of Ulamog
Rakish Heir
Shadow Alley Denizen
Stromkirk Captain
Tymaret, the Murder King
Vampire Nighthawk
Viscera Seer
ENCHANTMENT:
Bloodchief Ascension
Curse of Disturbance
Curse of Opulence
Death Pits of Rath
Goblin Bombardment
Mind Slash
Stensia Masquerade
SORCERY:
Act of Treason
Ancient Craving
Black Sun's Zenith
Blood Tribute
Decree of Pain
Diabolic Tutor
Dreadbore
Dregs of Sorrow
Harness by Force
Kari Zev's Expertise
New Blood
Plague Wind
Portent of Betrayal
Promise of Power
Sign in Blood
Traitorous Blood
Wrangle
LAND:
Akoum Refuge
Bloodfell Caves
Command Tower
Evolving Wilds
Rakdos Carnarium
Rakdos Guildgate
Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
Stensia Bloodhall
Tresserhorn Sinks
Urborg Volcano
ARTIFACT:
Altar of Dementia
Ashnod's Altar
Blade of the Bloodchief
Carnage Altar
Darksteel Ingot
Lightning Greaves
Mindcrank
Nevinyrral's Disk
Rakdos Keyrune
Rakdos Signet
Skullclamp
Spine of Ish Sah
Sol Ring
Swiftfoot Boots
INSTANTS:
Act of Aggression
Chaos Warp
Go for the Throat
Grab the Reins
Skeletal Scrying
Terminate
Urge to Feed
Victim of Night
1 Anowon, the Ruin Sage
1 Blood Artist
1 Blood Seeker
1 Bloodflow Connoisseur
1 Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
1 Bloodthrone Vampire
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Captivating Vampire
1 Conquering Manticore
1 Crypt Rats
1 Dark Impostor
1 Disciple of Griselbrand
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
1 Falkenrath Noble
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Heirs of Stromkirk
1 Jeering Instigator
1 Necropolis Regent
1 Olivia, Mobilized for War
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Rakish Heir
1 Shadow Alley Denizen
1 Stromkirk Captain
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Viscera Seer
1 Bloodchief Ascension
1 Curse of Disturbance
1 Curse of Opulence
1 Death Pits of Rath
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Mind Slash
1 Stensia Masquerade
SORCERY:
1 Act of Treason
1 Ancient Craving
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Blood Tribute
1 Decree of Pain
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Dreadbore
1 Dregs of Sorrow
1 Harness by Force
1 Kari Zev's Expertise
1 New Blood
1 Plague Wind
1 Portent of Betrayal
1 Promise of Power
1 Sign in Blood
1 Traitorous Blood
1 Wrangle
LAND:
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Bloodfell Caves
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Stensia Bloodhall
1 Tresserhorn Sinks
1 Urborg Volcano
1 Altar of Dementia
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
1 Carnage Altar
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mindcrank
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Rakdos Keyrune
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Skullclamp
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
INSTANTS:
1 Act of Aggression
1 Chaos Warp
1 Go for the Throat
1 Grab the Reins
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Terminate
1 Urge to Feed
1 Victim of Night
You need to add "1 " before the name of the card or it wont display correctly (for them to work with [deck][/deck]-tags). The number is used to indicate how many copies you run of the card which is terribly relevant for edh but it is handy for some cards like basic lands. You can also divide the cards into sections like "INSTANTS:" but they can be anything from "noncreatures" to "cards with hats in the art" just make sure there is no empty row between the title of the section and the cards in the section
Yes:
[deck]
INSTANTS:
1 Act of Aggression
1 Chaos Warp
1 Go for the Throat
1 Grab the Reins
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Terminate
1 Urge to Feed
1 Victim of Night
[/deck]
No:
[deck]
INSTANTS:
1 Act of Aggression
1 Chaos Warp
1 Go for the Throat
1 Grab the Reins
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Terminate
1 Urge to Feed
1 Victim of Night
[/deck]
Quote my post so you can easily just cut and paste your list.
Is this suppose to be a complete decklist? I only count 83 cards and only 10 of them are lands. Which Olivia you are using as the commander. You have only listed Olivia, Mobilized for War but there is also Olivia Voldaren which imo suits much better for the "steal and sac" -plan.
Secondly, welcome to Magic, specifically EDH/Commander. You're gonna have fun(with a touch of frustration...it's all part of the game)!
Third: Check this thread for some help on tags. Specifically, how to get your cards sorted into a decklist when you're done. It's VERY handy. Good job on the card tags, though.
Now, some basic points to give(I built an Olivia Voldaren deck some time ago, though it's been sold since);
1. Victim of Night and such cards have to go. They are FAR too narrow in their restrictions to be useful, and if this is your only removal, and people are swinging with zombie/vampire/werewolf tribal, you are up a certain creek without a paddle.
2. The lands you have are nice(I'm assuming you're going to fill out the rest with basics), but I would recommend filling out some more, if you have the budget. Blood Crypt and Dragonskull Summit are great to start with, and Rocky Tar Pit or stuff like Grixis Panorama can help out. When your deck becomes less about the basics and more about dual lands, start adding stuff like Expedition Map to keep the mana flowing.
3. Easiest way(and one of the most effective) to have a win-con is to build around your general's strength(s). Olivia is the master of pinging and mind controlling. Run with that. She gives +1/+1 counters to herself...what if there's a way to redistribute them to your other guys? How hilarious would it be to wait for someone to build their commander up for lethal commander damage, and then swoop in to steal it for your own kill? Stick with those for now, instead of trying to get too fancy with win con. That can come later.
4. That being said, you DO want a back-up wincon, even if it's just swinging with every creature you have and overwhelming. Try to make sure your backup doesn't require your general on the board, because that is often the first target for removal spells/abilities
Now, specifics on your cards;
Victim of Night far too situational
Wrangle useful in early game, but sometimes not even then. EDH isn't often about speed(note that there are decks out there that can win on turn 3), and your biggest threat will often be guys just out of range. I would pitch.
Dregs of Sorrow Already expensive to cast, and you don't have ways of flooding yourself with mana to make it worthwhile until it's (probably) already too late. I would pitch.
Your boardwipes are great, but also suffer from not being cheap. It may take time, but consider getting a Damnation when you can afford it. I'm not certain how many other budget options you may have in BR, but keep an eye out in your local shop.
To replace some of your removal and card manipulation, go with stuff like Hero's Downfall, Doom Blade or Murder. You have Go For the Throat, which is another good one; just be mindful that you don't accidentally target an artifact creature(it's not nearly as obvious as it once was, lol).
On the previous point, perhaps get rid of all the cards that manipulate opponent's hands. That can be a wincon to revisit in the future, but for your first deck, that's just stretching yourself too thin. Get more card draw(black has that in abundance; Sign in Blood is just the beginning) and tutors(Some people suggest Diabolic Revelation, but for you I would suggest Increasing Ambition and when you can afford it, Demonic Tutor.
Mindcrank, and those cards like it, are dangerous to play. Graveyard reanimation is a serious thing, and there's nothing more these guys like than to have one of their wincon fatties show up in the graveyard. If you want to keep those types of cards, consider going for broke and playing Leyline of the Void to cripple them. Downside is, it hurts you pretty bad too.
Better vampires to consider(focus on eliminating vampires that give temporary buffs, like Bloodthrone Vampire:
Bloodcrazed Paladin can get crazy huge if you use some of your insta-kill strategies with the Death Pits of Rath and the like.
Blood Ghast
Bloodline Keeper
Gatekeeper of Malakir
Kalitas, Bloodchief of Ghet
Malakir Bloodwitch
Nirkana Revenant will be pricey.
Vampire Hexmage
Vampire Nocturnus
Final note(and mind you, this may not work as often as you wish, but it's hilarious when it does): Braid of Fire. Now that mana burn is no longer a thing, if you leave it sit, then bring in Olivia when you're going to get a ton of R mana...;)
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Pact Effect: Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos can help keep your opponents' boards in check, in tandem with your Butcher of Malakir.
I'd swipe out Plague Wind for In Garruk's Wake, I find that the walker utility is more valuable than the regeneration clause.
Also +1 to Malakir Bloodwitch the draining effect can close out games.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
We try to keep decklists in the deckbuilding areas. We tend to have general discussions in the commander main area.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
nope.avi
Unfortunately Black and Red and not the best for mana ramp, although Cabal Coffers and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth can bag you a lot later game.
I like Braid of Fire in this deck, to speed mana freely in your upkeep to shoot things with Olivia.
Giving Olivia "Deathtouch" is a killer combo (can shoot for 1 and kill any creature). Basilisk Collar is cheap equipment that you can use for this effect.
You have waaaay too many sacrifice outlets. I understand that you 9 creature steal cards, but you can cast the instant ones with right timing to probably block and kill anyway. Too be honest when you look at these cards you're effectively playing them in the deck as alternatives to your commander, which means with your Commander out, they are effectively dead cards in many ways. I personally don't feel the synergy is there. Its a lot of cards (SAC + Steal), where you might want to focus on protecting your commander or getting setup with heaps of mana, so that casting Olivia out several times will pull you through.
Whats your sort of budget?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Pawn of Ulamog
1 Captivating Vampire
1 Rakish Heir
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Bloodlord of Vaasgoth
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
1 Anowon, the Ruin Sage
1 Blood Artist
1 Indulgent Aristocrat
1 Bazaar Trader
1 Heirs of Stromkirk
1 Yahenni, Undying Partisan
1 Stromkirk Captain
1 Kalastria Highborn
1 Jeering Instigator
1 Viscera Seer
1 Grim Haruspex
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Coffin Queen
1 Bloodflow Connoisseur
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Decree of Pain
1 Dregs of Sorrow
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Feast of Blood
1 Ashen Powder
1 Grab the Reins
1 Dark Ritual
1 Promise of Power
1 Sign in Blood
1 Mass Mutiny
1 New Blood
1 Insurrection
1 Chaos Warp
1 Act of Treason
1 In Garruk's Wake
1 Ancient Craving
1 Threaten
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Grim Return
ARTIFACTS
1 Darksteel Plate
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Nevinrral's Disk
1 Alter of Dementia
1 Mindcrank
1 Ashnod's Alter
1 Sol Ring
1 Rakdos Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Carnage Alter
1 Skullclamp
1 Conjurer's Closet
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Swiftoot Boots
1 Black Market
1 Bloodchief Ascension
WALKERS
1 Angrath, the Flame-Chained
LANDS
1 Command Tower
1 Rakdos Carnarium
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Akoum Refuge
1 Bloodfell Caves
1 Rakdos Guildgate
1 Tresserhorn Sinks
1 Urborg Volcano
1 Braid of Fire
8 Mountain
19 Swamp
I added cards like Conjurer's Closet, Bazaar Trader, Grim Return. Ashen Powder, Coffin Queen, Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, Chainer, Dementia Master, Geth, Lord of the Vault to grab cards from other player's graveyards if i see something I like, or if I sac to one of the "until end of turn" steals.
i also have Bloodchief Ascension + Mindcrank as an infinite mill, drain combo that I thought was pretty cool
Also I have a Grave Pact en route will be adding that soon, but what should i switch it out with. I'll also be switching plague win with in garruks wake soon.
Any other Thoughts?
Thanks
P.S. this is literally the best I could get the decklist to work took me forever im just leave it at that sorry