Okay first I want to state, no this is not a joke. It was not my Idea to make this deck. I got it from a fellow judge and yeah, happened to like the idea that much that i got into playtesting it.
The Idea
It's a simple Combodeck wraped around the idea of Deceiver Exarch & Splinter Twin. The main goal is to win with that combo during turn 3 or 4, but yeah like all goals you set you can't achive all of them in the appropriate time, and so you end up fishing for the last combopiece or the protection. So thats why the cards that are not combomaterial are cantrips or protectionpieces.
Ancient Tomb - Accelerator. Since all of the combopieces cost 2, i think it's verry usefull to have this land.
Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch - Part 1 of the combo. Can be played EoT to tap any land that might be usefull for our opponent or untap one of our lands to play a Brainstorm or so on. Exarch is better than the pestermite since he doesn't die to Bolts.
Splinter Twin/Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Part 2 of the combo. Played on exarch or pestermite endless haste tokens can be made. 1 Kiki Jiki is used if the twins get extirpated or somehow else are not available.
Gitaxian Probe - Information is everything and for free (okay for 2 life) it's even better. We can see if we need more protection or if we can go for the combo this turn.
Fire // Ice - Can kill annoying creatures like Gaddock Teeg or hinder our opponent by tapping one of his precious lands.
Brainstorm/Ponder/Sensei's Divining Top - Cantrip. We need it. together with fetchlands we can shuffle away useless cards and get to the cards we need. Another choice would be Preordain, but since it doesn't let us look that deep into our library I prefer Ponder.
Force of Will/Daze - Main Protection in the Comboturn usefull even without mana.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Most decks use him as 2nd winoption. I don't think he will be used for that here since we can't protect him. Brainstorm #5-6 is more appropriate.
//Edit: a good thing about Jace is that most people think that if they don't handle him immediatly he wins against them and so they use their counterspells on him.
Sideboard
Blood Moon - good against many 3colored decks like BUG, BWG, RUG, AggroLoam. and enters the battlefield on turn 2 with ancient tomb
Spell Pierce/Red Elemental Blast - Gives us a better position against controllmatchups. Pierce helps alot against DDecks like ANT, TES, DDFT.
Relic of Progenitus - Gravehate, you need it. I think it's better than the Tormod's Crypt, since it's not a useable-juste-once-card.
Vendilion Clique - Boardet against decks that have a slow clock. So even without combo we can build up some pressure. Anyway we also get information about our opponents hand so thats good as well.
Match-Ups
Okay since i play this deck for like 2-3 weeks i can't tell you that much about it's good or bad matchups. But i think that it has a problem with BUG, since it combines Handdisruption and counterspells, wich is verry devastating for a combodeck.
Another thing is that against craturedecks that could possibly go for the kill in Turn 4-5 we got to have our combo in Hand and can't play that much of cantripspells.
Okay I would realy like it if someone could help me with the deck, cause I think that it's realy steady for a combodeck in legacy and I think that it is at least worth a try.
I don't think that Burning or Cunning Wish are a usefull option. Most times you try to get like this.
1st Turn: Ponder, Brainstorm
2nd Turn: Another Cantrip or Fire // Ice to disrupt your opponent
3rd Turn: Exarch
4th: Twin
or with Tomb
1st Turn: Cantrip
2nd Turn: Exarch
3rd Turn: Twin
But since thats only the theory I'm not realy sure about it. If Any of the Wishes was able to search for a combopiece I would say yes I want that, but this way dunno... It's constructed to be a combodeck with protection, not a controlldeck.
Revoker and Gaddock Teeg are covered with Fire // Ice The only card that could cause Problems would be the Peedle. Therefore the lonely Kiki-Jiki works here as well... or the Split between Exarch and Pestermite, Since our opponent has to name one of them and not the Splinter Twin, since the ability is given to the Creature... wich works against the revoker as well :D.
The problem with the wishes is that when you don't need a solution out of your sideboard their just empty cards. Normaly you play Wishboards to support your combo by getting a part from your combo out of your sideboard or by getting an enabler, but that doesn't work here.
Jace seems out of place in this deck. It isn't controlling enough to support him and 4 mana is too much for a Brainstorm. 4 Brainstorms and 4 Ponders is probably enough. if you want cantrips 9 and 10 you could run 2 preordain.
If it were me however, I would make the following changes.
-2 Jace, TMS
-1 SDT
-2 Volcanic Island
+3 Enlightened tutor
+1 Plateau
+1 Tundra
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The smallest seed of regret can bloom into redemption."
This deck is so much worse than painter/grindstone.
This type of deck could probably use impulse. And you totally need some sort of bounce main deck. Otherwise things like propaganda completely nerf your whole deck.
And you totally need some sort of bounce main deck. Otherwise things like propaganda completely nerf your whole deck.
I can't see any deck in the recent Top8 or any relevant tournament that runs Propaganda. Or did I miss something there? And even if there was, why shoudl I run them Mainboard? You run protection Mainboard if you expect protection against your Combo Mainboards in like 90% of the decks you will go up against.
Jace seems out of place in this deck. It isn't controlling enough to support him and 4 mana is too much for a Brainstorm. 4 Brainstorms and 4 Ponders is probably enough. if you want cantrips 9 and 10 you could run 2 preordain.
I was thinking about running SDT's instead of Jace since getting 3 deep is more important when your not searching for quality in cards but a specific one.
//Edit: Another thing about Jace is that it's a countermagnet, you can get a force out of your opponents hand just by playing it... that doesn't work with Preordain ;D
If it were me however, I would make the following changes.
-2 Jace, TMS
-1 SDT
-2 Volcanic Island
+3 Enlightened tutor
+1 Plateau
+1 Tundra
Seems like a viable option that would set the deck in a different position regarding the sideboard. It would be an idea to take some 1 offs in the board that can be searched through the tutors.
I will play a GPT tommorow with this deck but a different Sideboard. I will write down a report later and post it in this thread.
Well I didn't think that beating the contending legacy decks mattered to you since you were just building a casual deck.
I actually never said that I wanted to build a casual deck
I realy build this deck to run it at GPT Amsterdam tommorow and at some other small tournaments. It's not build to be run in the midrange of the tournament but to be a deck to consider for the higher ranks.
If I wanted to build a casual-deck i would not even post a sideboard, since these are useless in a casual area.
Bounce is good against all sorts of random hate. If you run echoing truth it can bounce zombie tokens which could buy you a turn against dredge.
In the first version I tested I played Chain of Vapor In the sideboard. I actualy never boarded it in.
And against Dredge i should be able to get them with a relic and buy me enough time with them. But I allready considered random Hateartifacts like Cursed Totem, wich would... yeah just get me out of the game.
But like I said, to be honest I haven't seen people playing these in competetive events...
And I would at least test impulse in the fire//ice slot.
The good Thing about the Fire // Ice is that it can be used verry differently. It's a mainboardsolution against Gaddock Teeg, wich is run in Maverick. It can kill a noble hierarch + a Dryad Abror against NoRUG. And it can disrupt my opponents Plans in the 2nd Turn by tapping him a Land in the upkeep and replacing itself, lets say against BUG, where a 2nd Turn Hymn can be realy devastating. The Fire//Ice Slot is a Slot that is used for boaring issues against some decks, but against other decks it's realy usefull to have a removal... and against the other ones I can use it as a disruption at game 1.
~Kind regards~
P.s.: I want to make something clear before someone wants to point it out. I DO want your hints and ideas to this deck, even if till now i acted like most of the ideas were declined. I'm actually verry thankfull to all of you.
I don't realy understand why Splinter Twin deck are not popular. (I know it's slow but still...)
In my version (not tested in real condition) i have 2 Spellskite.
I'm testing Halimar Depths, i like it on the first turn, keep more blue card for Force of will.
Been thinking about this thread for a while, but haven't really arrived at an answer for it until now. The reason why Splinter Twin Combo isn't played in Legacy is because the heavy amount of removal doesn't make it such a solid choice vs. Modern. Thing is, recent SCM-Exarch-Twin lists have given me the idea to put Splinter Twin combo inside either a Burn shell or Blue Sligh shell.
Having the combo inside of a Burn or Blue Sligh shell makes the combo more of a lingering threat, as you're already threatening them with burnout. One nasty thing would be to have the opponent at 4, draw FoW with Splinter Twin, then Fireblast for the win.
Have you considered playing a card for card version of this from modern? That might help you see where the holes are. And then the improvements should come easily from there.
Private Mod Note
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------------------- Keep Abiding or Get Mangled ------------------
The mana base would need some more work, and there would be better ways in Legacy to make the deck more tempo-like. Personally, I'm preferring the blue sligh shell to the deck right now, but this could be something to work on testing and tinkering with.
Hi, I personally used to run Pili pala but with a huge chunk of the current meta being bug delver, I feel like this could use some effect like unsubstantiate to combat abrupt decay as most bug delver lists run that as a playset.
The main appeal of twin in combo was that pestermite and deceiver could just go on a beat down plan with a control element, and that combined with acceleration pushed RUG delver into existence, because green gave access to goyf and dorks. In my personal opinion, I think RUG is the way to go as you get worldly tutor, green suns zenith, Goyf, deathrite shaman, sylvan library, and can even run a crop rotation with stage/dark depths package somewhere in the 75. If you do move to a more creature centric build, you could also justify running aether vial (but I personally wouldn't, by worth looking into) to put creatures in without fear of counterspells.
Speaking of which, if you decide to stay UR, I would run some number of true-name nemesis in the side as splinter twin on that is a clock most fair decks can't beat, and makes your delver matchup bearable with a overload of threats.
While it seems cheeky, I ran two turnabouts in Pili pala as it can be a time walk if cast at upkeep. It works as a easier to cast cryptic command if you want to tap creatures vs merfolk or elves (that usage is kinda meta dependent tho) and can ramp you if need be in fringe situations.
Sorry if this thread is super dead but I am looking into this deck as I think with tuning it might be in a good position vs the current meta of delver.
The Idea
It's a simple Combodeck wraped around the idea of Deceiver Exarch & Splinter Twin. The main goal is to win with that combo during turn 3 or 4, but yeah like all goals you set you can't achive all of them in the appropriate time, and so you end up fishing for the last combopiece or the protection. So thats why the cards that are not combomaterial are cantrips or protectionpieces.
Let's start with the list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Mountain
Combo
4 Deceiver Exarch
3 Pestermite
4 Splinter Twin
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Fire // Ice
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Protection
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
2 Daze
3 Blood Moon
3 Relic Of Progenitus
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Spell Pierce
3 Red Elemental Blast
Card choices
Ancient Tomb - Accelerator. Since all of the combopieces cost 2, i think it's verry usefull to have this land.
Pestermite/Deceiver Exarch - Part 1 of the combo. Can be played EoT to tap any land that might be usefull for our opponent or untap one of our lands to play a Brainstorm or so on. Exarch is better than the pestermite since he doesn't die to Bolts.
Splinter Twin/Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker - Part 2 of the combo. Played on exarch or pestermite endless haste tokens can be made. 1 Kiki Jiki is used if the twins get extirpated or somehow else are not available.
Gitaxian Probe - Information is everything and for free (okay for 2 life) it's even better. We can see if we need more protection or if we can go for the combo this turn.
Fire // Ice - Can kill annoying creatures like Gaddock Teeg or hinder our opponent by tapping one of his precious lands.
Brainstorm/Ponder/Sensei's Divining Top - Cantrip. We need it. together with fetchlands we can shuffle away useless cards and get to the cards we need. Another choice would be Preordain, but since it doesn't let us look that deep into our library I prefer Ponder.
Mental Misstep - Good against handdisruption like Duress, Thoughtseize or against counterspells like Spell Pierce or Mental Misstep
Force of Will/Daze - Main Protection in the Comboturn usefull even without mana.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - Most decks use him as 2nd winoption. I don't think he will be used for that here since we can't protect him. Brainstorm #5-6 is more appropriate.
//Edit: a good thing about Jace is that most people think that if they don't handle him immediatly he wins against them and so they use their counterspells on him.
Sideboard
Blood Moon - good against many 3colored decks like BUG, BWG, RUG, AggroLoam. and enters the battlefield on turn 2 with ancient tomb
Spell Pierce/Red Elemental Blast - Gives us a better position against controllmatchups. Pierce helps alot against DDecks like ANT, TES, DDFT.
Relic of Progenitus - Gravehate, you need it. I think it's better than the Tormod's Crypt, since it's not a useable-juste-once-card.
Vendilion Clique - Boardet against decks that have a slow clock. So even without combo we can build up some pressure. Anyway we also get information about our opponents hand so thats good as well.
Match-Ups
Okay since i play this deck for like 2-3 weeks i can't tell you that much about it's good or bad matchups. But i think that it has a problem with BUG, since it combines Handdisruption and counterspells, wich is verry devastating for a combodeck.
Another thing is that against craturedecks that could possibly go for the kill in Turn 4-5 we got to have our combo in Hand and can't play that much of cantripspells.
Okay I would realy like it if someone could help me with the deck, cause I think that it's realy steady for a combodeck in legacy and I think that it is at least worth a try.
~Kind Regards~
1st Turn: Ponder, Brainstorm
2nd Turn: Another Cantrip or Fire // Ice to disrupt your opponent
3rd Turn: Exarch
4th: Twin
or with Tomb
1st Turn: Cantrip
2nd Turn: Exarch
3rd Turn: Twin
But since thats only the theory I'm not realy sure about it. If Any of the Wishes was able to search for a combopiece I would say yes I want that, but this way dunno... It's constructed to be a combodeck with protection, not a controlldeck.
If it were me however, I would make the following changes.
-2 Jace, TMS
-1 SDT
-2 Volcanic Island
+3 Enlightened tutor
+1 Plateau
+1 Tundra
UBANTBU
UBRWDDFTWRBU
WUBRGT.E.S.GRBUW
This type of deck could probably use impulse. And you totally need some sort of bounce main deck. Otherwise things like propaganda completely nerf your whole deck.
Yeah sure. And Painter-Stone is so much worse than TES from my point of view. Such arguments are just useless.
I don't think so. Impuls is not a viable option. 2 Mana is just too expensive for a cantrip even if it gets you 4 cards deep.
I can't see any deck in the recent Top8 or any relevant tournament that runs Propaganda. Or did I miss something there? And even if there was, why shoudl I run them Mainboard? You run protection Mainboard if you expect protection against your Combo Mainboards in like 90% of the decks you will go up against.
I was thinking about running SDT's instead of Jace since getting 3 deep is more important when your not searching for quality in cards but a specific one.
//Edit: Another thing about Jace is that it's a countermagnet, you can get a force out of your opponents hand just by playing it... that doesn't work with Preordain ;D
Seems like a viable option that would set the deck in a different position regarding the sideboard. It would be an idea to take some 1 offs in the board that can be searched through the tutors.
I will play a GPT tommorow with this deck but a different Sideboard. I will write down a report later and post it in this thread.
Kind regards.
Bounce is good against all sorts of random hate. If you run echoing truth it can bounce zombie tokens which could buy you a turn against dredge.
And I would at least test impulse in the fire//ice slot.
I actually never said that I wanted to build a casual deck
I realy build this deck to run it at GPT Amsterdam tommorow and at some other small tournaments. It's not build to be run in the midrange of the tournament but to be a deck to consider for the higher ranks.
If I wanted to build a casual-deck i would not even post a sideboard, since these are useless in a casual area.
In the first version I tested I played Chain of Vapor In the sideboard. I actualy never boarded it in.
And against Dredge i should be able to get them with a relic and buy me enough time with them. But I allready considered random Hateartifacts like Cursed Totem, wich would... yeah just get me out of the game.
But like I said, to be honest I haven't seen people playing these in competetive events...
The good Thing about the Fire // Ice is that it can be used verry differently. It's a mainboardsolution against Gaddock Teeg, wich is run in Maverick. It can kill a noble hierarch + a Dryad Abror against NoRUG. And it can disrupt my opponents Plans in the 2nd Turn by tapping him a Land in the upkeep and replacing itself, lets say against BUG, where a 2nd Turn Hymn can be realy devastating. The Fire//Ice Slot is a Slot that is used for boaring issues against some decks, but against other decks it's realy usefull to have a removal... and against the other ones I can use it as a disruption at game 1.
~Kind regards~
P.s.: I want to make something clear before someone wants to point it out. I DO want your hints and ideas to this deck, even if till now i acted like most of the ideas were declined. I'm actually verry thankfull to all of you.
In my version (not tested in real condition) i have 2 Spellskite.
I'm testing Halimar Depths, i like it on the first turn, keep more blue card for Force of will.
Here's a list I'm testing for reference:
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Pestermite
3 Deceiver Exarch
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Ponder
4 Splinter Twin
3 Force of Will
2 Fireblast
3 Arid Mesa
4 Island
4 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Volcanic Island
Having the combo inside of a Burn or Blue Sligh shell makes the combo more of a lingering threat, as you're already threatening them with burnout. One nasty thing would be to have the opponent at 4, draw FoW with Splinter Twin, then Fireblast for the win.
-----The Legacy Flowchart-----
Tiny Leaders Overlord
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Pestermite
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Brainstorm
2 Dispel
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Ponder
4 Splinter Twin
1 Vapor Snag
2 Cascade Bluffs
5 Island
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Sulfur Falls
3 Volcanic Island
The mana base would need some more work, and there would be better ways in Legacy to make the deck more tempo-like. Personally, I'm preferring the blue sligh shell to the deck right now, but this could be something to work on testing and tinkering with.
The main appeal of twin in combo was that pestermite and deceiver could just go on a beat down plan with a control element, and that combined with acceleration pushed RUG delver into existence, because green gave access to goyf and dorks. In my personal opinion, I think RUG is the way to go as you get worldly tutor, green suns zenith, Goyf, deathrite shaman, sylvan library, and can even run a crop rotation with stage/dark depths package somewhere in the 75. If you do move to a more creature centric build, you could also justify running aether vial (but I personally wouldn't, by worth looking into) to put creatures in without fear of counterspells.
Speaking of which, if you decide to stay UR, I would run some number of true-name nemesis in the side as splinter twin on that is a clock most fair decks can't beat, and makes your delver matchup bearable with a overload of threats.
While it seems cheeky, I ran two turnabouts in Pili pala as it can be a time walk if cast at upkeep. It works as a easier to cast cryptic command if you want to tap creatures vs merfolk or elves (that usage is kinda meta dependent tho) and can ramp you if need be in fringe situations.
Sorry if this thread is super dead but I am looking into this deck as I think with tuning it might be in a good position vs the current meta of delver.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/770827-primer-legacy-pili-pala
lands (20)
4 island
4 misty rainforest
4 scalding tarn
4 volcanic island
2 mountain
2 tropical island
creatures (12)
4 deceiver exarch
4 snapcaster mage
4 spellskite
enchantments (4)
4 splinter twin
instants (12)
4 brainstorm
4 force of will
4 swan song
sorceries (12)
4 firespout
4 gitaxian probe
4 ponder
SB
4 ancient grudge
4 relic of progenitus
4 submerge
1 emrakul, the aeons torn
1 kozilek, butcher of truth
1 ulamog, the infinite gyre
card explanations:
4 firespout. board wipe, kills swan song tokens, maybe kills snapcaster mage, doesn't kill exarch/'skite.
4 spellskite. survives firespout, protects exarch, preboard vs infect/boggles/mirror.
4 swan song. cheap counter, firespout handles tokens.
SB
4 relic of progenitus. grave hate, protect combo from surgical extraction.
4 submerge. green creatures too big for 'skite/exarch ('goyf/ooze, etc.)
3 eldrazi. grindstone/show and tell. different variants to avoid surgical extraction.
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkfx2kA8gok&feature=emb_logo
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3RYiZJFCK0
limited - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j18HlKybrm8&feature=emb_logo
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiAEzfAgpbI&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vNr_4ubfMg&t=1s
standard - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJcwpxraL-g&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8MyVNLVYNw&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-M5ffoArnY&t=1s
modern - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_yQEBOPi_w&feature=emb_logo
extended - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLpUB9zpyr4&feature=emb_logo