Interesting list, alus. Eternal Scourge is something I hadn't really considered before. In its place, at the moment, I'm running Phyrexian Revoker. I find the additional maindeck disruption helps immensely. Scourge is an interesting choice, but ultimately I think it's probably not good enough. Terminus gets around the recursion against Miracles, Delver, D&T, and Shardless decks run stuff like Tarmogoyf, Batterskull, and Gurmag Angler that straight outclass it, and it's not fast or disruptive enough to register as a threat against any of the combo lists. There's not one matchup in the top tier of the format where it really feels like it shines.
Also, no Karakas in your lands? 1-2 of those is pretty well mandatory as additional free disruption. I feel like 24 lands with 0 accelerants isn't going to be quite enough.
Finally, no Thorn of Amethyst, Sphere of Resistance, or even Trinisphere in the sideboard?
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IMO Revoker gives you better "aggro" than the Scourge does, as it can consistently come down on turn one and screws up what your opponent is doing, buying you time. Scourge is more of a midrange card, matching up well against small creatures and standard removal spells, but the deck already excels at that anyways because it runs bigger creatures with ETB/dies/protection effects.
Thorn is must-have in the side IMO. Relying on *just* Chalice (and TKS) for your combo matchups is asking to get run over, especially when decks like Storm and Elves commonly board in Abrupt Decay. 3/Resist Spheres are alternate considerations if Elves gives you the most trouble, since Thorn doesn't do as much against them.
I'm at 24 lands but I run two Guides. I could easily see cutting one guide for an additional Karakas and the other maybe for a fourth Eye. Guide does give the deck some explosive starts however, and there's a lot of decks that just scoop to a turn two Reality Smasher. They're also better than another land for the long-game against decks like Miracles, where Cavern on Ape gives you an additional threat. Minor though it may be, it still can help go that final distance. If I wanted to fit another Karakas without cutting the Guides, I'd probably trim the fourth Wasteland.
As you can see my maindeck is pretty close to yours.
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Sorry, but being the best Chalice deck is the reason to play Eldrazi. Thorn is nowhere near as good. And the green cards you're splashing for don't even seem that strong. Noble Hierarch? You get better ramp by running more Sol lands. Ancient Stirrings is just a cantrip. And Nest Invader is just bizarre.
Will you sometimes lose games to Grixis Delver having a turn one Delver into Daze and then Wasteland? Sure. But that's going to happen with literally any deck you play. Delver has hands that are just basically unbeatable, regardless of what you're playing. Running a bunch of bad cards and cutting some of your best cards against them won't change that.
If you're really that concerned about getting Wasted out of the game, run some Wastes and maybe 2-3 Mox Diamond for a non-land source of mana.
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What can eldrazi do against artifacts, or more specifically artifacts like ensnaring bridge?
Ratchet Bomb is traditionally your best answer to permanent-based lock pieces like Bridge and Moat, since it can remove any permanent given enough time. Thought-Knot Seer ripping it from their hand before they can cast it is always a good option, but this obviously can't stop them from topdecking it and playing it immediately, or just tutoring it. Endbringer can help get in the last few points of damage if you've beaten them down with Reality Smasher and similar before they've landed the bridge, though if they manage a turn one or two bridge, you're going to be hard-pressed to squeeze 18-20 points out of Endbringer before your opponent can do something relevant to finish you.
Some builds have also been turning to a Cloudpost-based manabase and going larger, eschewing smaller Eldrazi like Mimic, Reshaper, and sometimes even Smasher in favor of bigger threats like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. If I get the time, I'll update the primer to include these lists, but here's an example one:
This deck is "Big Eldrazi"and I like more than Eldrazi agro because I think is more fast with Grim Monolith and Thran Dynamo and you can find Ulamog the Ceaseless Hunger easy with Eye of Ugin and cast it.
I haven't anything who sideboarding with Big Eldrazi, Do you know who sideboarding?
Yeah, it's definitely a different deck than the Eldrazi Aggro deck, which just hasn't seemed to cut it lately for whatever reason. Maybe the loss of Miracles has weakened the Cavern of Souls + Chalice setup, and Delver is way more brutal to your manabase if you're playing City of Traitors.
I'd have to dig for the sideboarding guides for Big Eldrazi, it's a build I haven't tinkered with much myself.
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Basically, unless you're in the white splash, you have to accept that you're going to lose the game if it gets to turn 4-5, because you're not going to have a great answer to Show into Emrakul with Force backup or Sneak Attack with multiple red sources. You want a hand that has the right mix of disruption and Smashers to close the game out before they can get to their inevitability point.
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So there's no way to actually do anything against creatures that have something like "protection from everything."
Some builds, especially the Big Eldrazi builds, run All is Dust (often Sideboard), which can force a sacrifice of Progenitus, but otherwise, no, there's not much you can do about it.
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It seems like eldrazi is also weak against land removal like from pox and delver. Are mox the only way to combat that? But then it seems you'd have to sideboard them.
It seems like eldrazi is also weak against land removal like from pox and delver. Are mox the only way to combat that? But then it seems you'd have to sideboard them.
Land Destruction can certainly hurt, especially for City builds. Artifact Mana is definitely a decent way to counteract that - this is why the bigger Eldrazi lists are packing multiple copies of Thran Dynamo and Grim Monolith.
Mox Diamond is your best bet in the traditional Eldrazi list, but it's kind of counterproductive in that you have to discard a land to play it. If the issue is that you're getting land-locked out of having enough mana for relevant plays, pitching a land to play a pseudo-land that doesn't actually allow you to cast many if any of your spells on its own is a losing proposition. Crucible of Worlds is a solid way to counteract LD, especially multiple pieces of LD, but it requires that you be able to hit 3 mana at least once. Sorcerous Spyglass is also a solid sideboard card for Wasteland matchups like Delver.
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It seems like eldrazi is also weak against land removal like from pox and delver. Are mox the only way to combat that? But then it seems you'd have to sideboard them.
Land Destruction can certainly hurt, especially for City builds. Artifact Mana is definitely a decent way to counteract that - this is why the bigger Eldrazi lists are packing multiple copies of Thran Dynamo and Grim Monolith.
Mox Diamond is your best bet in the traditional Eldrazi list, but it's kind of counterproductive in that you have to discard a land to play it. If the issue is that you're getting land-locked out of having enough mana for relevant plays, pitching a land to play a pseudo-land that doesn't actually allow you to cast many if any of your spells on its own is a losing proposition. Crucible of Worlds is a solid way to counteract LD, especially multiple pieces of LD, but it requires that you be able to hit 3 mana at least once. Sorcerous Spyglass is also a solid sideboard card for Wasteland matchups like Delver.
I really doubt you'll be able to get to 3 land in time to matter against pox. Maybe mox diamond is better then.
Has anyone tried Phyrexian Dreadnought? Slapping down a Mimic then for 1 extra mana you can get a 12/12 swinging in on turn 2. Sure you're going to have to sacrifice it, but is it worth it? Possible turn 3 24 damage acros.
Has anyone tried Phyrexian Dreadnought? Slapping down a Mimic then for 1 extra mana you can get a 12/12 swinging in on turn 2. Sure you're going to have to sacrifice it, but is it worth it? Possible turn 3 24 damage acros.
There's no reason to include dreadnought just on the sheer coincidence you are able to play both mimic and dreadnought quickly. Dreadnought should be able to contribute to the deck without an ideal circumstance which it cannot.
Some builds have also been turning to a Cloudpost-based manabase and going larger, eschewing smaller Eldrazi like Mimic, Reshaper, and sometimes even Smasher in favor of bigger threats like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. If I get the time, I'll update the primer to include these lists, but here's an example one:
I did try a cloudpost/glimmerpost/thespian/vesuva oriented mana base against a wide variety of tournament decks, though not in a competitive environment, and I noticed it was a little more resilient or adaptable to wasteland with a sometimes slower start. I think it helps that the cloudpost combo is only dependent on two lands whereas urza lands are dependent on 3, but coming into play tapped is a big setback against fast controlling decks. My build was a little more humble and controlling with ratchet bomb and umezawa since most decks have low mana curves, and it matched up fairly against a wide variety of decks (with no side-boarding). About 40+% winrate against pox, 55+% against delver, 50% against burn, 50% against merfolk, 55+% against death and taxes, 55%-60+% against maverick. The plus just means I let the opponent mulligan with no consequences, which means it's some underestimate of the initial matchup chances. It definitely out-aggros other aggro decks, but struggles against decks that are more controlling.
Just a small history first.
I've play the whole year with eldrazi stompy, the core of the MD is all about the primer,, 24 lands 23 creatures 6 lock pieces 2 ssg 2 jitte 3 removal.
I've close the year (11 events) with 3 second places 2 top4 2 top8 and four times didnt enter the top. the conclusion about bad matchups is..
Sneak and show and variants = change urborg for the second karakas in the MD, 2 warping wail to try to counter (sometimes it works because they dont care to combo with backup) sorcerous spyglass (nowadays) its great because u can see opponent hand and choose sneak attack griselbrand and even the fetchlands. the best way to win is by thorn of amethyst to delay the combo, and to disrupt them with TKS. 70-75% for them win in the G1.
Lands.... wastelock with life from loam its crazy, and boring, sorcerous spyglass again is great to stop these and the main combo, leyline of the void is a must have in the initial hand.
these two are the worst matchups,,, with white in the decks seems a little better but not worth in my opinion, ensaring bridge is a real pain,,, I have 1 endbringer and 2 walking ballista in the MD for these,, dont think is enough against burn and dragon stompy. ratchet bomb only can do something about it.. maybe using nevynhall disk in side,.. never tried
It seems like eldrazi is also weak against land removal like from pox and delver. Are mox the only way to combat that? But then it seems you'd have to sideboard them.
Land Destruction can certainly hurt, especially for City builds. Artifact Mana is definitely a decent way to counteract that - this is why the bigger Eldrazi lists are packing multiple copies of Thran Dynamo and Grim Monolith.
Mox Diamond is your best bet in the traditional Eldrazi list, but it's kind of counterproductive in that you have to discard a land to play it. If the issue is that you're getting land-locked out of having enough mana for relevant plays, pitching a land to play a pseudo-land that doesn't actually allow you to cast many if any of your spells on its own is a losing proposition. Crucible of Worlds is a solid way to counteract LD, especially multiple pieces of LD, but it requires that you be able to hit 3 mana at least once. Sorcerous Spyglass is also a solid sideboard card for Wasteland matchups like Delver.
I really doubt you'll be able to get to 3 land in time to matter against pox. Maybe mox diamond is better then.
Third land isnt needed if you can land a Monolith on turn 1 followed by a Crucible on turn 2.
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If there's a lot of Blood Moon stompy in your meta, consider swapping some of your flex land slots (Wastelands, Mishra's Factory, City of Traitors, Eye of Ugin, etc) for Wastes so you can still have access to your colorless mana creatures in games with moon out.
Also, the Big Eldrazi versions with Grim Monolith and/or Thran Dynamo can use those cards for their colorless mana needs.
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Yeah im probably going to GP Niagara Falls in a month, thinking if I should go with add 2 Grim Monolith in my main deck, and more wastes, I think mono red prison is going to be a painful matchup to deal with.
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Also, no Karakas in your lands? 1-2 of those is pretty well mandatory as additional free disruption. I feel like 24 lands with 0 accelerants isn't going to be quite enough.
Finally, no Thorn of Amethyst, Sphere of Resistance, or even Trinisphere in the sideboard?
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4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Eye of Ugin
3 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Karakas
Creatures (27)
2 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
2 Endbringer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Warping Wail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Dismember
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Warping Wail
3 Ratchet Bomb
IMO Revoker gives you better "aggro" than the Scourge does, as it can consistently come down on turn one and screws up what your opponent is doing, buying you time. Scourge is more of a midrange card, matching up well against small creatures and standard removal spells, but the deck already excels at that anyways because it runs bigger creatures with ETB/dies/protection effects.
Thorn is must-have in the side IMO. Relying on *just* Chalice (and TKS) for your combo matchups is asking to get run over, especially when decks like Storm and Elves commonly board in Abrupt Decay. 3/Resist Spheres are alternate considerations if Elves gives you the most trouble, since Thorn doesn't do as much against them.
I'm at 24 lands but I run two Guides. I could easily see cutting one guide for an additional Karakas and the other maybe for a fourth Eye. Guide does give the deck some explosive starts however, and there's a lot of decks that just scoop to a turn two Reality Smasher. They're also better than another land for the long-game against decks like Miracles, where Cavern on Ape gives you an additional threat. Minor though it may be, it still can help go that final distance. If I wanted to fit another Karakas without cutting the Guides, I'd probably trim the fourth Wasteland.
As you can see my maindeck is pretty close to yours.
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Will you sometimes lose games to Grixis Delver having a turn one Delver into Daze and then Wasteland? Sure. But that's going to happen with literally any deck you play. Delver has hands that are just basically unbeatable, regardless of what you're playing. Running a bunch of bad cards and cutting some of your best cards against them won't change that.
If you're really that concerned about getting Wasted out of the game, run some Wastes and maybe 2-3 Mox Diamond for a non-land source of mana.
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Ratchet Bomb is traditionally your best answer to permanent-based lock pieces like Bridge and Moat, since it can remove any permanent given enough time. Thought-Knot Seer ripping it from their hand before they can cast it is always a good option, but this obviously can't stop them from topdecking it and playing it immediately, or just tutoring it. Endbringer can help get in the last few points of damage if you've beaten them down with Reality Smasher and similar before they've landed the bridge, though if they manage a turn one or two bridge, you're going to be hard-pressed to squeeze 18-20 points out of Endbringer before your opponent can do something relevant to finish you.
Some builds have also been turning to a Cloudpost-based manabase and going larger, eschewing smaller Eldrazi like Mimic, Reshaper, and sometimes even Smasher in favor of bigger threats like Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. If I get the time, I'll update the primer to include these lists, but here's an example one:
4 Cloudpost
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Vesuva
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Endbringer
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Oblivion Sower
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Void Winnower
2 Walking Ballista
2 Warping Wail
4 Grim Monolith
1 Karn Liberated
3 Thran Dynamo
3 Trinisphere
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Voltaic Key
2 Leyline of the Void
4 Pithing Needle
4 Spatial Contortion
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Wurmcoil Engine
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Yeah, it's definitely a different deck than the Eldrazi Aggro deck, which just hasn't seemed to cut it lately for whatever reason. Maybe the loss of Miracles has weakened the Cavern of Souls + Chalice setup, and Delver is way more brutal to your manabase if you're playing City of Traitors.
I'd have to dig for the sideboarding guides for Big Eldrazi, it's a build I haven't tinkered with much myself.
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Basically, unless you're in the white splash, you have to accept that you're going to lose the game if it gets to turn 4-5, because you're not going to have a great answer to Show into Emrakul with Force backup or Sneak Attack with multiple red sources. You want a hand that has the right mix of disruption and Smashers to close the game out before they can get to their inevitability point.
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Some builds, especially the Big Eldrazi builds, run All is Dust (often Sideboard), which can force a sacrifice of Progenitus, but otherwise, no, there's not much you can do about it.
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Land Destruction can certainly hurt, especially for City builds. Artifact Mana is definitely a decent way to counteract that - this is why the bigger Eldrazi lists are packing multiple copies of Thran Dynamo and Grim Monolith.
Mox Diamond is your best bet in the traditional Eldrazi list, but it's kind of counterproductive in that you have to discard a land to play it. If the issue is that you're getting land-locked out of having enough mana for relevant plays, pitching a land to play a pseudo-land that doesn't actually allow you to cast many if any of your spells on its own is a losing proposition. Crucible of Worlds is a solid way to counteract LD, especially multiple pieces of LD, but it requires that you be able to hit 3 mana at least once. Sorcerous Spyglass is also a solid sideboard card for Wasteland matchups like Delver.
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I really doubt you'll be able to get to 3 land in time to matter against pox. Maybe mox diamond is better then.
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There's no reason to include dreadnought just on the sheer coincidence you are able to play both mimic and dreadnought quickly. Dreadnought should be able to contribute to the deck without an ideal circumstance which it cannot.
I did try a cloudpost/glimmerpost/thespian/vesuva oriented mana base against a wide variety of tournament decks, though not in a competitive environment, and I noticed it was a little more resilient or adaptable to wasteland with a sometimes slower start. I think it helps that the cloudpost combo is only dependent on two lands whereas urza lands are dependent on 3, but coming into play tapped is a big setback against fast controlling decks. My build was a little more humble and controlling with ratchet bomb and umezawa since most decks have low mana curves, and it matched up fairly against a wide variety of decks (with no side-boarding). About 40+% winrate against pox, 55+% against delver, 50% against burn, 50% against merfolk, 55+% against death and taxes, 55%-60+% against maverick. The plus just means I let the opponent mulligan with no consequences, which means it's some underestimate of the initial matchup chances. It definitely out-aggros other aggro decks, but struggles against decks that are more controlling.
I've play the whole year with eldrazi stompy, the core of the MD is all about the primer,, 24 lands 23 creatures 6 lock pieces 2 ssg 2 jitte 3 removal.
I've close the year (11 events) with 3 second places 2 top4 2 top8 and four times didnt enter the top. the conclusion about bad matchups is..
Sneak and show and variants = change urborg for the second karakas in the MD, 2 warping wail to try to counter (sometimes it works because they dont care to combo with backup) sorcerous spyglass (nowadays) its great because u can see opponent hand and choose sneak attack griselbrand and even the fetchlands. the best way to win is by thorn of amethyst to delay the combo, and to disrupt them with TKS. 70-75% for them win in the G1.
Lands.... wastelock with life from loam its crazy, and boring, sorcerous spyglass again is great to stop these and the main combo, leyline of the void is a must have in the initial hand.
these two are the worst matchups,,, with white in the decks seems a little better but not worth in my opinion, ensaring bridge is a real pain,,, I have 1 endbringer and 2 walking ballista in the MD for these,, dont think is enough against burn and dragon stompy. ratchet bomb only can do something about it.. maybe using nevynhall disk in side,.. never tried
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Third land isnt needed if you can land a Monolith on turn 1 followed by a Crucible on turn 2.
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Magus is easier to deal with than actual Blood Moon, since you can hit it with Dismember, Spatial Distortion, Walking Ballista, Umezawa's Jitte counters (equip to a Ballista or Eldrazi Mimic or other creature you can drop). Moon itself is much trickier, as you basically need to rely on sideboard cards like Ratchet Bomb or All is Dust which are fairly slow to use.
If there's a lot of Blood Moon stompy in your meta, consider swapping some of your flex land slots (Wastelands, Mishra's Factory, City of Traitors, Eye of Ugin, etc) for Wastes so you can still have access to your colorless mana creatures in games with moon out.
Also, the Big Eldrazi versions with Grim Monolith and/or Thran Dynamo can use those cards for their colorless mana needs.
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