I don't know of a Kataki-like card that deals with enchantments, personally. As far as Kataki himself goes, many people are just using Green Sun's Zenith as their tutor and that can only grab green creatures, so he isn't tutorable in that situation. If you have an Enlightened Tutor sideboard plan, though, Null Rod is a very good bet against Affinity.
If you hate enchantments, Back to Nature or Reverent Silence. Less drastic solutions would be Qasali Pridemage, Krosan Grip and Nature's Claim. I don't know of a card that taxes the opponent one mana each upkeep for each enchantment they have, though.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
If you are having problems versus a specific enchantment then you should use Krosan Grip and Nature's Claim. If it's enchantress then your best bet is Harmonic Convergence.
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Maverick -- Storm Click here for trade thread
Trade thread under reconstruction. Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
Serenity should also be a single in the board, and is great against enchantress, but the grove is a bit more of a problem for them because it blanks replenish
Serenity should also be a single in the board, and is great against enchantress, but the grove is a bit more of a problem for them because it blanks replenish
Asking people to remove quotes in their signatures is tyranny! If I can't say something just because someone's feelings are hurt then no one would ever be able to say anything! Political correctness is stupid.
You might want to re-read Tranquil Grove? Replenish does not "rape" this card. Karmic Justice sort of does, which is what Harmonic Convergence is for. But the tl;dr for all of this is that these cards are way too narrow to be running any high number of in your sideboard. Serenity might be the only reasonable option because it also has applications against Affinity, but even then I'm skeptical. Basically you just have to Wasteland their Sanctums, put a clock on them and hope for the best, Pridemaging (and K-Gripping post-board) their most troublesome enchantments or their Sterling Groves.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
Black Star - True about Energy Flux, but if people wanted to just stay in green they could do the same thing with Tranquil Grove. It's a bit slow, but that doesn't really matter against Enchantress. And it gets around Replenish obviously by just blowing the world up again the next turn, unless they can get rid of it. I suppose that could be a problem with their use of O-Ring, but Flux has the same problem. And both suck against Karmic Justice, but there's only so much one can dedicate to such a fringe matchup. Somewhere between 0-1 specific sideboard cards is probably all you can afford to have.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
Match 1: Mono-U Fish
G1 - Opponent mulls down to 5 and my 2nd turn Stoneforge resolves. A couple turns and 1 Batterskulled Scryb Ranger later and he scoops.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Terravore +4 Summoning Trap +2 Path to Exile
G2 - Mull to 6 and keep a mediocre hand. Opponent plays out lords faster than I can keep up and takes the game.
G3 - I mistakenly keep a sub-par hand and end up running into manascrew and despite resolving a Stoneforge Mystic I am unable to catch up in time.
0-1-0
Match 2: Mono-U Fish
G1 - Opponent has an insanely slow start for Fish and I'm able to get some early beaters out. A resolved Sylvan Library and Jitte seals the deal.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Terravore +4 Summoning Trap +2 Path to Exile
G2 - Very similiar to Match 1 Game 2. After my 2nd turn Noble Hierach is countered, I attempt to Summoning Trap, but he vials in a Cursecatcher to counter it. A few lords later and I'm overwhelmed.
G3 - I keep an insane opening hand and by turn 3 I have a Mother of Runes, Knight of the Reliquary, Sylvan Library, and Noble Hierarch on the field. A second mom resolves and I take the game soon after.
1-1-0
Match 3: RUG Natural Order
G1 - My first two spells (Mom and Hierarch) are misstep'ed, my STP is Clique'd, and a resolved Natural Order a couple turns later spells my doom.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Kitchen Finks +4 Summoning Trap +2 Path to Exile +1 Gaddock Teeg
G2 - Again, most of my early game spells are countered, but I am able to keep his green creatures off the field and he is forced to waste 4 burn spells in total in order to kill my Mom and Teeg (with Karakas backup). His steam runs out and I eventually beat him to 0 with an exalted Goyf.
G3 - A first turn Grim Lavamancer on his end is successfully STP'ed, which allows me to bring out a hierarch and stoneforge mystic. He gets a goyf out with an equipped Jitte but my Knight-tutored Maze ensures that he deals no damage and my opponent eventually scoops after my board dwarfs his
2-1-0
Match 3: Home-brewy Burn
G1 - An early Mom and Pridgemage meet Searing Blaze and I end up getting down to about 8 life but I'm able to Green Sun out a Kitchen Finks which nets me enough time to kill him.
No sideboard
G2 - 3rd turn Progenitus = game
3-1-0
This was my first competitive tourney playing the deck and I was impressed how well it performed, specifically against RUG which was a matchup I was kind of fearing. I probably made some sideboard mistakes but overall it was a great experience. This deck is a whole lot of fun.
Congrats man, the only really fearsome decks are Affinity/Combo/Dredge, everythin else is pretty much doable as this deck can easily overwhelm Control by the sheer mass of must counters and fights pretty well against Aggro due to creature quality.
I do love to see Fish in tournaments, but sometimes they just get the nut draw. You seemed pretty unlucky with the Traps, but give them another chance, as they tend to generate huge tempo or cardadvantage if the FoW it.
People always tell me to side out the NO against blue, but i for my part still like them as the late bomb, a total must counter and ofter the controlling part in the match is left with only few spells to keep up on turn 3 or 4 as they tend to counter your 1 drop, your 2 drop and your KotR
Maybe i should set up a boarding plan, after reworking my sideboard.
Yeah I really had a pretty difficult time figuring out what to side out for the traps. I didn't want to take out many creatures as they are what enable the trap to be set off, and vs. fish pretty much every creature in the deck is very useful (save for Terravore). I think vs. mono-Uish landstill builds the Moms would come out rather than NO.
I'm really starting to contemplate adding in Mindcensors, considering how devastating they are vs the mirror (bye bye Fetches, NO, GSZ, and Stoneforge) as well as other decks. I'm thinking something like: -1 Kitchen Finks -1 Tarmogoyf for +2 Mindcensor...but then again, they are kind of a dud unless you drop 1 early. Hard to say.
Aven Mindcensor is fine to run right alongside the NO package. Obviously, it's not a green creature, but it actually has some synergy because it shuts off opposing Natural Order as a kill spell for your Progenitus.
Note that the Mindcensor has the word "opponent" on it, if that's the source of your unease.
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I am the author of the "Resource Advantage in Magic" series over on EternalCentral.com
Looking at some of the other Legacyturniers results, I think their metagame is flooded with Maverick. I'm not sure that that one particular top 8 is representative of the legacy metagame overall. There are a bunch of other pilots running Maverick. It looks like it makes up at least 30% of their metagame, and looks like it typically places a few pilots.
It also looks like their metagame is really unusual in other ways as well. Looking at the list of top 8's you see things like Faeries + Tombstalker, Deciever Exarch combo, and Phyrexian Crusader control taking up top 8 slots.
Maverick is really great at a lot of things, but I'm not so sure I'd place as much faith in this particular tournament series (or any small tournament) as in some of the larger ones.
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Twin Exarch? Seriously? I mean the combo with Pestermite instead of Exarch has been around for some time now and suddenly when Exarch comes out, it sees play in Legacy? What's wrong in this picture?
Not to go off-topic, but it's probably the added redundancy. We now have duplicates of both Kiki-Jiki and Pestermite, so you can effectively run 8 of each card, which greatly assists in finding them with Brainstorms. That said, I'm pretty sure it's still a Tier 3 deck.
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
G1: 1st turn GSZ is spell pierced, I manage to get out a Hierarch and a Knight, but the Knight is STP’ed and during my next draw step my own STP is tucked. He basically outpaces me this game and kills me with his Vendillion Clique and Dryad Arbors
G2: 1st Turn my Hierarch is misstep’ed and my summoning trap is daze’d. I resolve a 2nd turn Aven Mindcensor, but when I attempt to play a 2nd the next turn it is forced, and the 1st one is STP’ed the next turn. By this time he’s run out of steam and I’m able to get out a Knight and a Pridemage and take the game.
G3: I again play a 2nd turn Aven Mindcensor, but it’s STP'ed EOT. The early game involves a lot of countering and exiling of creatures but eventually I end up with a Knight and Thrun on the board. He plays a Rhox War Monk with exalted 2 but I tutor a maze to keep him from dealing any damage. I STP his War Monk and he’s able to hold me off for a few turns by chump blocking but then I Natural Order and it’s over.
1-0-0 (2-1-0)
Match 2: UR Sneaky Show
G1: Opponent mulls to 5. I land a 1st turn Hierarch and 2nd turn Pridemage. He show and tells and drops Progenitus. I drop Sword of Fire and Ice. Swing for 6+2 and play Jitte. He knocks me down to 7. I fetch a land (oops), equip Jitte, and swing for another 8, then STP my own pridemage. I win the numbers game and next turn he’s dead.
Sideboard: -3 Swords to Plowshares +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke
G2: Opponent gets out a blood moon turn 2 but luckily I have a basic plains and I’m able to put some beats on him with a Mother of Runes and Aven Mindcensor. I drop a Batterskull and he scoops a couple turns later.
2-0-0 (4-1-0)
Match 3: Zoo
G1: Turn 3 Natural Order = GG
Sideboard: -1 Sword of Fire and Ice -1 Scryb Ranger -1 Green Sun Zenith +1 Sword of War and Peace +2 Path to Exile
G2: He gets out some early Wild Nacatls but I’m able to stall the ground with Mother of Runes until I resolve a Nautral Order.
3-0-0 (6-1-0)
Match 4: BUG Landstill
G1: I mull to 5 and keep a pretty mediocre hand with my only lands being maze of ith and wasteland. I draw into 0 lands and he draw-go’s me to death with Jace.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +1 Thrun, the Last Troll
G2: Mother of Runes is misstepped and Summoning Trap is forced. 2nd turn Sylvan library resolves, and I stick a Knight and a Pridemage that aren’t answered.
G3: I cast Hierarch, he drops a Mishra’s factor and standstill. We take turns smashing each other and destroying each other’s lands and I eventually have to blow the standstill. I play a Mother of Runes and pass the turn. He drops Pernicious Deed. I play Choke and it resolves. He blows the deed and I play a Knight that brings him to 0 a few turns later.
4-0-0 (8-2-0)
Match 5: RUG Natural Order
G1: My turn 1 GSZ is countered, but my 2nd turn Stoneforge Mystic resolves and I grab a Batterskull. He bolts my Stoneforge Mystic and I follow up with an Aven Mindcensor. He casts a Vendillion Clique during my next draw step targeting himself and I drop a Mother of Runes. He plays a Grim Lavamancer. I play a Jitte (tech), equip Aven Mindcensor, and fling him through with the help of Mother of Runes, in turn killing the Grim Lavamancer and Vendillion Clique. He can’t recover.
G2: 1st turn he missteps my Mother of Runes and dazes my summoning trap. I GSZ for a Hierarch, my knight gets countered next turn, and I summoning trap again into a Stoneforge Mystic which grabs a Sword of Fire and Ice. He scoops a couple turns later.
5-0-0 (10-2-0)
Match 6: Mono-U Fish
Draw
5-0-1 (10-2-1)
Top 8: UW Stoneforge Mystic Control
G1: I keep a mana heavy land because I know he will be running answers to my mana ramp and do not want to be mana screwed. I draw into only more land and my GSZ is countered leaving me with only equipment and no creatures to equip. He ends up landing both a Jace and a Crucible of Worlds and I scoop.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus -1 Scryb Ranger -1 Terravore -1 Mother of Runes +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +3 Krosan Grip +1 Thrun, the Last Troll
G2: I mull to 6. I drop a land and say go. He first turn suspends an Ancestral Visions. I drop a 2nd turn Stoneforge Mystic which resolves and I search for a batterskull. He drops a meddling mage naming GSZ. I draw and pass the turn. He plays his own Stoneforge Mystic searching for a Manriki-Gusari. I play a land and pass the turn, holding a Krosan Grip. He plays the Gusari, equips and swings. I Krosan Grip it. I draw and say go. He plays another Stoneforge Mystic, grabbing Batterskull and passes the turn. EOT I drop my Batterskull. I draw and swing. He drops his Batterskull and declares blockers. I attempt to STP his Batterskull token, but he has Mental Misstep. They trade and now I’m left with an unequipped Batterskull and a Stoneforge Mystic. The next turn he plays a Jace and I can't recover.
A little bit unfortunate that I didn't get past the quarter-finals, but I had gotten pretty lucky during the day and I didn't really run into any terrible matchups, so I'll take it for what it's worth. I think this is a great deck that has a lot of potential.
Some Notes:
- I love the Natural Order package. Auto-win vs. so many decks and most of the time they are unable to keep you from having at least 1 green creature on the field. I sided it out most games against the blue decks and it seemed to do me well. I don't like leaving it in vs the heavy counter decks simply because often times they are keeping you off your Hierarchs and GSZ, and NO cannot serve as a threat by itself unlike Knight of the Reliquary, Stoneforge Mystic, or Terravore.
- Aven Mindcensor is insane. If you resolve it 2nd turn, your opponent is effectively shut off from cracking fetches or searching with stoneforges unless he wants to rely on his topdecking skills.
- I can't decide on whether I prefer Choke or Summoning Trap in the SB. I ran 1 Choke today due to a last-minute decision to include it (and only bringing 1), but it served me amazingly in the game I drew it.
Went 6-1 for 3rd out of 91 today. I will try to type down a report as soon as possible, even though i might be lacking some details. Played with Mindscensors for NoProg but still don't know what i like more.
Yeah, diggin your list, got to maximize consistency though, maybe i'll give a shot to Tarrageddon next time, or NO again. I'll test a bit tomorrow, we'll see how it works out.
It does look a little thrown together, I guess that's one of the good things about the deck is that it's very tunable. I'm thinking about dropping the NO package and running +1 MoR +1 KOtR and maybe 3 more rogue-y cards (Mental Misstep has been suggested, and does seem like a pretty good tempo card). I'm interested to see your deck list and tourney results.
Awesome report, awesome result and awesome deck, dude. I personally am not a huge fan of the NO version of this deck, at least pre-boarding, because up against any deck with counters you'll never resolve it, giving them a two-for-one with the counterspell and blowing tempo. I think GW just has the biggest creatures in Legacy anyway, other than Progenitus or Emrakul, so you're just going to outsize most opponents anyway, as your results show. It also gives you super-versatile sideboard, as you have tutors for creatures and lands, and equipments in the main deck already.
Just out of curiosity, do you know what the other GW deck looked like? And would you change any part of the deck after that tournament experience?
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Legacy Decks I'm Currently Running:
U Merfolk U UGW NO Bant UGW UGWRB Dredge! UGWRB
Other Legacy Decks I Own:
RGW Zoo! RGW BGW Junk BGW RGWB Aggro Loam RGWB BW Deadguy BW W Death & Taxes (almost!) W GW Green & Taxes GW BGW Junk & Taxes BGW
I'm looking into morphing my list into a more standard one, similiar to the one you posted on this page, BSD. I'll likely be bringing this deck to SCG: Baltimore.
Couple questions:
How do you like Teeg in the mainboard?
I've noticed many lists run Sword of Feast and Famine, but isn't Fire and Ice a stronger option unless you expect a lot of Back to Basics or Blood Moons? I guess it's nice vs. Goyfs and others KOTR but I think FaI's abilities are stronger.
Love your sideboard, btw. Interesting that you included several various forms of dredge hate.
If you hate enchantments, Back to Nature or Reverent Silence. Less drastic solutions would be Qasali Pridemage, Krosan Grip and Nature's Claim. I don't know of a card that taxes the opponent one mana each upkeep for each enchantment they have, though.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Maverick -- Storm
Click here for trade threadTrade thread under reconstruction.
Because you can't spell slaughter without laughter.
How about a single Root Greevil in the sideboard?
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
Fits in as a singleton with the E Tutor package.
Serenity should also be a single in the board, and is great against enchantress, but the grove is a bit more of a problem for them because it blanks replenish
You might want to re-read Replenish
You might want to re-read Tranquil Grove? Replenish does not "rape" this card. Karmic Justice sort of does, which is what Harmonic Convergence is for. But the tl;dr for all of this is that these cards are way too narrow to be running any high number of in your sideboard. Serenity might be the only reasonable option because it also has applications against Affinity, but even then I'm skeptical. Basically you just have to Wasteland their Sanctums, put a clock on them and hope for the best, Pridemaging (and K-Gripping post-board) their most troublesome enchantments or their Sterling Groves.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Savannah
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Mother of Runes
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Terravore
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Progenitus
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Natural Order
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Summoning Trap
3 Krosan Grip
2 Serenity
2 Path to Exile
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Terastadon
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Thrun the Last Troll
Quick and dirty writeup:
Match 1: Mono-U Fish
G1 - Opponent mulls down to 5 and my 2nd turn Stoneforge resolves. A couple turns and 1 Batterskulled Scryb Ranger later and he scoops.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Terravore +4 Summoning Trap +2 Path to Exile
G2 - Mull to 6 and keep a mediocre hand. Opponent plays out lords faster than I can keep up and takes the game.
G3 - I mistakenly keep a sub-par hand and end up running into manascrew and despite resolving a Stoneforge Mystic I am unable to catch up in time.
0-1-0
Match 2: Mono-U Fish
G1 - Opponent has an insanely slow start for Fish and I'm able to get some early beaters out. A resolved Sylvan Library and Jitte seals the deal.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Terravore +4 Summoning Trap +2 Path to Exile
G2 - Very similiar to Match 1 Game 2. After my 2nd turn Noble Hierach is countered, I attempt to Summoning Trap, but he vials in a Cursecatcher to counter it. A few lords later and I'm overwhelmed.
G3 - I keep an insane opening hand and by turn 3 I have a Mother of Runes, Knight of the Reliquary, Sylvan Library, and Noble Hierarch on the field. A second mom resolves and I take the game soon after.
1-1-0
Match 3: RUG Natural Order
G1 - My first two spells (Mom and Hierarch) are misstep'ed, my STP is Clique'd, and a resolved Natural Order a couple turns later spells my doom.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Kitchen Finks +4 Summoning Trap +2 Path to Exile +1 Gaddock Teeg
G2 - Again, most of my early game spells are countered, but I am able to keep his green creatures off the field and he is forced to waste 4 burn spells in total in order to kill my Mom and Teeg (with Karakas backup). His steam runs out and I eventually beat him to 0 with an exalted Goyf.
G3 - A first turn Grim Lavamancer on his end is successfully STP'ed, which allows me to bring out a hierarch and stoneforge mystic. He gets a goyf out with an equipped Jitte but my Knight-tutored Maze ensures that he deals no damage and my opponent eventually scoops after my board dwarfs his
2-1-0
Match 3: Home-brewy Burn
G1 - An early Mom and Pridgemage meet Searing Blaze and I end up getting down to about 8 life but I'm able to Green Sun out a Kitchen Finks which nets me enough time to kill him.
No sideboard
G2 - 3rd turn Progenitus = game
3-1-0
This was my first competitive tourney playing the deck and I was impressed how well it performed, specifically against RUG which was a matchup I was kind of fearing. I probably made some sideboard mistakes but overall it was a great experience. This deck is a whole lot of fun.
Legacy
GWREnchantressGWR
WXWStaxWXW
GXWMaverickGXW
Yeah I really had a pretty difficult time figuring out what to side out for the traps. I didn't want to take out many creatures as they are what enable the trap to be set off, and vs. fish pretty much every creature in the deck is very useful (save for Terravore). I think vs. mono-Uish landstill builds the Moms would come out rather than NO.
I'm really starting to contemplate adding in Mindcensors, considering how devastating they are vs the mirror (bye bye Fetches, NO, GSZ, and Stoneforge) as well as other decks. I'm thinking something like: -1 Kitchen Finks -1 Tarmogoyf for +2 Mindcensor...but then again, they are kind of a dud unless you drop 1 early. Hard to say.
Legacy
GWREnchantressGWR
WXWStaxWXW
GXWMaverickGXW
Note that the Mindcensor has the word "opponent" on it, if that's the source of your unease.
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5934
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6247
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6074
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6044
It also looks like their metagame is really unusual in other ways as well. Looking at the list of top 8's you see things like Faeries + Tombstalker, Deciever Exarch combo, and Phyrexian Crusader control taking up top 8 slots.
Maverick is really great at a lot of things, but I'm not so sure I'd place as much faith in this particular tournament series (or any small tournament) as in some of the larger ones.
Check it out!
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part-1-one-shot-resources/
http://www.eternalcentral.com/resource-advantage-in-magic-part2-tempo/
I've also written a short primer on Manaless Dredge in Vintage:
http://www.eternalcentral.com/the-dredge-of-glory-an-introduction-to-manaless-dredge-in-vintage/
Not to go off-topic, but it's probably the added redundancy. We now have duplicates of both Kiki-Jiki and Pestermite, so you can effectively run 8 of each card, which greatly assists in finding them with Brainstorms. That said, I'm pretty sure it's still a Tier 3 deck.
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
3 Aven Mindcensor
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Terravore
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Progenitus
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Natural Order
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
3 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
3 Krosan Grip
2 Null Rod
2 Summoning Trap
1 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Path to Exile
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Terastodon
Tourney Report:
Match 1: Bant Natural Order
G1: 1st turn GSZ is spell pierced, I manage to get out a Hierarch and a Knight, but the Knight is STP’ed and during my next draw step my own STP is tucked. He basically outpaces me this game and kills me with his Vendillion Clique and Dryad Arbors
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus -1 Scryb Ranger +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +2 Path to Exile
G2: 1st Turn my Hierarch is misstep’ed and my summoning trap is daze’d. I resolve a 2nd turn Aven Mindcensor, but when I attempt to play a 2nd the next turn it is forced, and the 1st one is STP’ed the next turn. By this time he’s run out of steam and I’m able to get out a Knight and a Pridemage and take the game.
G3: I again play a 2nd turn Aven Mindcensor, but it’s STP'ed EOT. The early game involves a lot of countering and exiling of creatures but eventually I end up with a Knight and Thrun on the board. He plays a Rhox War Monk with exalted 2 but I tutor a maze to keep him from dealing any damage. I STP his War Monk and he’s able to hold me off for a few turns by chump blocking but then I Natural Order and it’s over.
1-0-0 (2-1-0)
Match 2: UR Sneaky Show
G1: Opponent mulls to 5. I land a 1st turn Hierarch and 2nd turn Pridemage. He show and tells and drops Progenitus. I drop Sword of Fire and Ice. Swing for 6+2 and play Jitte. He knocks me down to 7. I fetch a land (oops), equip Jitte, and swing for another 8, then STP my own pridemage. I win the numbers game and next turn he’s dead.
Sideboard: -3 Swords to Plowshares +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke
G2: Opponent gets out a blood moon turn 2 but luckily I have a basic plains and I’m able to put some beats on him with a Mother of Runes and Aven Mindcensor. I drop a Batterskull and he scoops a couple turns later.
2-0-0 (4-1-0)
Match 3: Zoo
G1: Turn 3 Natural Order = GG
Sideboard: -1 Sword of Fire and Ice -1 Scryb Ranger -1 Green Sun Zenith +1 Sword of War and Peace +2 Path to Exile
G2: He gets out some early Wild Nacatls but I’m able to stall the ground with Mother of Runes until I resolve a Nautral Order.
3-0-0 (6-1-0)
Match 4: BUG Landstill
G1: I mull to 5 and keep a pretty mediocre hand with my only lands being maze of ith and wasteland. I draw into 0 lands and he draw-go’s me to death with Jace.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +1 Thrun, the Last Troll
G2: Mother of Runes is misstepped and Summoning Trap is forced. 2nd turn Sylvan library resolves, and I stick a Knight and a Pridemage that aren’t answered.
G3: I cast Hierarch, he drops a Mishra’s factor and standstill. We take turns smashing each other and destroying each other’s lands and I eventually have to blow the standstill. I play a Mother of Runes and pass the turn. He drops Pernicious Deed. I play Choke and it resolves. He blows the deed and I play a Knight that brings him to 0 a few turns later.
4-0-0 (8-2-0)
Match 5: RUG Natural Order
G1: My turn 1 GSZ is countered, but my 2nd turn Stoneforge Mystic resolves and I grab a Batterskull. He bolts my Stoneforge Mystic and I follow up with an Aven Mindcensor. He casts a Vendillion Clique during my next draw step targeting himself and I drop a Mother of Runes. He plays a Grim Lavamancer. I play a Jitte (tech), equip Aven Mindcensor, and fling him through with the help of Mother of Runes, in turn killing the Grim Lavamancer and Vendillion Clique. He can’t recover.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus -1 Scryb Ranger +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +2 Path to Exile
G2: 1st turn he missteps my Mother of Runes and dazes my summoning trap. I GSZ for a Hierarch, my knight gets countered next turn, and I summoning trap again into a Stoneforge Mystic which grabs a Sword of Fire and Ice. He scoops a couple turns later.
5-0-0 (10-2-0)
Match 6: Mono-U Fish
Draw
5-0-1 (10-2-1)
Top 8: UW Stoneforge Mystic Control
G1: I keep a mana heavy land because I know he will be running answers to my mana ramp and do not want to be mana screwed. I draw into only more land and my GSZ is countered leaving me with only equipment and no creatures to equip. He ends up landing both a Jace and a Crucible of Worlds and I scoop.
Sideboard: -4 Natural Order -1 Progenitus -1 Scryb Ranger -1 Terravore -1 Mother of Runes +2 Summoning Trap +1 Choke +1 Gaddock Teeg +3 Krosan Grip +1 Thrun, the Last Troll
G2: I mull to 6. I drop a land and say go. He first turn suspends an Ancestral Visions. I drop a 2nd turn Stoneforge Mystic which resolves and I search for a batterskull. He drops a meddling mage naming GSZ. I draw and pass the turn. He plays his own Stoneforge Mystic searching for a Manriki-Gusari. I play a land and pass the turn, holding a Krosan Grip. He plays the Gusari, equips and swings. I Krosan Grip it. I draw and say go. He plays another Stoneforge Mystic, grabbing Batterskull and passes the turn. EOT I drop my Batterskull. I draw and swing. He drops his Batterskull and declares blockers. I attempt to STP his Batterskull token, but he has Mental Misstep. They trade and now I’m left with an unequipped Batterskull and a Stoneforge Mystic. The next turn he plays a Jace and I can't recover.
A little bit unfortunate that I didn't get past the quarter-finals, but I had gotten pretty lucky during the day and I didn't really run into any terrible matchups, so I'll take it for what it's worth. I think this is a great deck that has a lot of potential.
Some Notes:
- I love the Natural Order package. Auto-win vs. so many decks and most of the time they are unable to keep you from having at least 1 green creature on the field. I sided it out most games against the blue decks and it seemed to do me well. I don't like leaving it in vs the heavy counter decks simply because often times they are keeping you off your Hierarchs and GSZ, and NO cannot serve as a threat by itself unlike Knight of the Reliquary, Stoneforge Mystic, or Terravore.
- Aven Mindcensor is insane. If you resolve it 2nd turn, your opponent is effectively shut off from cracking fetches or searching with stoneforges unless he wants to rely on his topdecking skills.
- I can't decide on whether I prefer Choke or Summoning Trap in the SB. I ran 1 Choke today due to a last-minute decision to include it (and only bringing 1), but it served me amazingly in the game I drew it.
Legacy
GWREnchantressGWR
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Why not play both?
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It does look a little thrown together, I guess that's one of the good things about the deck is that it's very tunable. I'm thinking about dropping the NO package and running +1 MoR +1 KOtR and maybe 3 more rogue-y cards (Mental Misstep has been suggested, and does seem like a pretty good tempo card). I'm interested to see your deck list and tourney results.
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Just out of curiosity, do you know what the other GW deck looked like? And would you change any part of the deck after that tournament experience?
U G W NO Bant U G W
U G W R B Dredge! U G W R B
B G W Junk B G W
R G W B Aggro Loam R G W B
B W Deadguy B W
W Death & Taxes (almost!) W
G W Green & Taxes G W
B G W Junk & Taxes B G W
Momir Vig
Brion Stoutarm
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
Arcum Daggson
Couple questions:
How do you like Teeg in the mainboard?
I've noticed many lists run Sword of Feast and Famine, but isn't Fire and Ice a stronger option unless you expect a lot of Back to Basics or Blood Moons? I guess it's nice vs. Goyfs and others KOTR but I think FaI's abilities are stronger.
Love your sideboard, btw. Interesting that you included several various forms of dredge hate.
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