So, at least the supply seems to be not as limited as the masters sets before. Thats a good thing, isn´t it? At least the print run limitation of previous sets was one of the bad points on the sets. So at least one point turned out to be better, right?
And can we expect thouse increased print runs on future master sets?
If you are a player that just wants the cards to play and collect (like me) then yes. If you are one of these investment types that treat cardboard like the stock market then no.
Who knows about your second question? I just wish they would up the quality of reprints. Too much dumpster fire jank at all rarity levels in these sets.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
So, at least the supply seems to be not as limited as the masters sets before. Thats a good thing, isn´t it? At least the print run limitation of previous sets was one of the bad points on the sets. So at least one point turned out to be better, right?
And can we expect thouse increased print runs on future master sets?
If you are a player that just wants the cards to play and collect (like me) then yes. If you are one of these investment types that treat cardboard like the stock market then no.
Who knows about your second question? I just wish they would up the quality of reprints. Too much dumpster fire jank at all rarity levels in these sets.
They literally don't have enough good cards to put into these sets to do two masters sets in a year. Also, there is zero way that whoever is dealing with the cards going into the sets even recognizes what a low supply, low demand card looks like vs a moderate supply, high demand one looks like. Yes, a lot of the cards were high money on the secondary market, but that is because they are from Cold Snap / Time Spiral Era. No one is actively playing the cards outside of EDH and while they are cool to see again, they shouldn't have been placed in a 240 dollar box. I don't know how someone could overlook this unless they literally don't play any kind of TCG at all, have zero idea what kind of cards are getting played, and by extension live under a rock someplace with minimal contact with the outside world. I can literally open a browser to MTG Goldfish or some other deck site and see what the high played cards are in a given format and unless EDH REC is showing a card in 90+ percent of all EDH decks it does not have the staying power to hold a price tag with a reprint.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I don't know how someone could overlook this unless they literally don't play any kind of TCG at all, have zero idea what kind of cards are getting played, and by extension live under a rock someplace with minimal contact with the outside world. I can literally open a browser to MTG Goldfish or some other deck site and see what the high played cards are in a given format and unless EDH REC is showing a card in 90+ percent of all EDH decks it does not have the staying power to hold a price tag with a reprint.
I think you took that from Wizards Help Wanted add for Masters Set R&D positions.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Cards are tanking so hard in this set because they're almost all artificially expensive due to low supply, not because they're staple cards. Ancestral Vision is the best example: It's been $50 since being unbanned despite seeing virtually no play in any prominent decks because it had only ever been printed in old, low volume sets/products. Now with a reprint, it's STILL seeing no play, but has nose-dived more than 50%, settling so far under $20 (with probably another 4-8$ to fall). This seems to be the case for nearly every "money" card in the set. Auriok Champion and Serra Ascendant are other good examples of cards that only see limited play in specific decks in certain formats and were expensive due to scarcity, not demand.
The final financial value of this set is probably going to be very low compared to every other Masters set.
Not all of this is Modern related, but here's what's currently in my TCGPlayer cart. I feel I should continue holding off on these but will defer to the community wisdom here if anybody feels like giving some pointers.
4x IMA Abyssal Persecutor @ $0.55/ea
4x IMA Grove of the Burnwillows @ $12.60/ea (I have 1x the old printing but it's cheaper to buy a set of IMA than 3 of the old right now)
4x IMA Horizon Canopy @ $32.50/ea
4x IMA Magus of the Moon @ $8.90/ea
4x IMA Mana Drain @ 74.30/EA
4x IMA O-Stone @ $4.74/ea
4x IMA Serum Powder @ $0.52/ea
4x IMA Lotus Cobra @ $3.73/ea
2x IMA Flustertorm @ $23.75/ea (I have 2x Commander printing but no deck runs more than 2 so can split my playset since the IMA printing is so much cheaper)
1x M13 Thundermaw Hellkite @ $6.09 (to complete my set)
I'm the type who collects playables and "could be playable in the right environment" for Vintage/Legacy/Modern/Commander whether or not they'd currently go into a deck I'm playing. I like being able to play many decks at the drop of a hat by just diving into my collection. Thoughts on whether to hold off some more?
So, at least the supply seems to be not as limited as the masters sets before. Thats a good thing, isn´t it? At least the print run limitation of previous sets was one of the bad points on the sets. So at least one point turned out to be better, right?
And can we expect thouse increased print runs on future master sets?
Take it with a grain of salt, but Youtube's Rudy from Alpha Investments spoke with someone along the supply chain and learned that Masters 25 will be available in big box stores as well. Dick move to LGS owners.
Since it’s starting to sound like LGSes may have to eat losses on IMA just to move inventory (and not because the big boxers are beating them - because demand is monumentally low) that may be a bullet dodged. MM was a windfall because of extremely high demand. This set and the next one are no windfall.
So, at least the supply seems to be not as limited as the masters sets before. Thats a good thing, isn´t it? At least the print run limitation of previous sets was one of the bad points on the sets. So at least one point turned out to be better, right?
And can we expect thouse increased print runs on future master sets?
Take it with a grain of salt, but Youtube's Rudy from Alpha Investments spoke with someone along the supply chain and learned that Masters 25 will be available in big box stores as well. Dick move to LGS owners.
So, at least the supply seems to be not as limited as the masters sets before. Thats a good thing, isn´t it? At least the print run limitation of previous sets was one of the bad points on the sets. So at least one point turned out to be better, right?
And can we expect thouse increased print runs on future master sets?
Take it with a grain of salt, but Youtube's Rudy from Alpha Investments spoke with someone along the supply chain and learned that Masters 25 will be available in big box stores as well. Dick move to LGS owners.
I feel like this happened before? Collectable Stores got screwed when inventory shifted to big box stores causing many of the smaller ones to shutter or shift their focus. Comics? Sports Cards?
Not all of this is Modern related, but here's what's currently in my TCGPlayer cart. I feel I should continue holding off on these but will defer to the community wisdom here if anybody feels like giving some pointers.
4x IMA Abyssal Persecutor @ $0.55/ea
4x IMA Grove of the Burnwillows @ $12.60/ea (I have 1x the old printing but it's cheaper to buy a set of IMA than 3 of the old right now)
4x IMA Horizon Canopy @ $32.50/ea
4x IMA Magus of the Moon @ $8.90/ea
4x IMA Mana Drain @ 74.30/EA
4x IMA O-Stone @ $4.74/ea
4x IMA Serum Powder @ $0.52/ea
4x IMA Lotus Cobra @ $3.73/ea
2x IMA Flustertorm @ $23.75/ea (I have 2x Commander printing but no deck runs more than 2 so can split my playset since the IMA printing is so much cheaper)
1x M13 Thundermaw Hellkite @ $6.09 (to complete my set)
I'm the type who collects playables and "could be playable in the right environment" for Vintage/Legacy/Modern/Commander whether or not they'd currently go into a deck I'm playing. I like being able to play many decks at the drop of a hat by just diving into my collection. Thoughts on whether to hold off some more?
The best cards to pick up now from Iconic Masters that you listed(and this should be taken with a grain of salt because it really depends on the modern meta) would be...
1) Horizon Canopy. It likely could drop another 20% with time since a lot of packs are being opened and it's only a rare.
2) Grove of the Burnwillows. This one is a very distant 2 because the deck that primarily played it is GR Tron. I don't think I've seen that deck being played a lot lately so the demand on that card is likely not that high.
The rest of those that you listed are fringe right now in modern and do not have a whole lot of demand on them. I'd expect them all to keep dropping as packs are opened. There are a bunch of cards I want from the set, but the prices just can't hold at where they are right now on the singles market. Archangel of Thune and Auriok Champion are two that I'm holding out for. I think Lightning Helix has probably bottomed out, though. That one is getting reprinted with both artworks via Explorers of Ixalan AND Iconic masters. I went with the angry cat version myself, but the original ravnica artwork is nostalgia in a bottle.
Also, note that single sellers are going to be trying to hold the prices as firmly as they can, so expect the decline to be a slow, painful affair. Mythics are the most likely to hold value for a while.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Not all of this is Modern related, but here's what's currently in my TCGPlayer cart. I feel I should continue holding off on these but will defer to the community wisdom here if anybody feels like giving some pointers.
4x IMA Abyssal Persecutor @ $0.55/ea
4x IMA Grove of the Burnwillows @ $12.60/ea (I have 1x the old printing but it's cheaper to buy a set of IMA than 3 of the old right now)
4x IMA Horizon Canopy @ $32.50/ea
4x IMA Magus of the Moon @ $8.90/ea
4x IMA Mana Drain @ 74.30/EA
4x IMA O-Stone @ $4.74/ea
4x IMA Serum Powder @ $0.52/ea
4x IMA Lotus Cobra @ $3.73/ea
2x IMA Flustertorm @ $23.75/ea (I have 2x Commander printing but no deck runs more than 2 so can split my playset since the IMA printing is so much cheaper)
1x M13 Thundermaw Hellkite @ $6.09 (to complete my set)
I'm the type who collects playables and "could be playable in the right environment" for Vintage/Legacy/Modern/Commander whether or not they'd currently go into a deck I'm playing. I like being able to play many decks at the drop of a hat by just diving into my collection. Thoughts on whether to hold off some more?
To me, these all seem like terrific prices. I would snap them up if you have uses for them.
Colt may be right about Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy. They could fall further, although I don't personally think they will fall much more.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Not all of this is Modern related, but here's what's currently in my TCGPlayer cart. I feel I should continue holding off on these but will defer to the community wisdom here if anybody feels like giving some pointers.
4x IMA Abyssal Persecutor @ $0.55/ea
4x IMA Grove of the Burnwillows @ $12.60/ea (I have 1x the old printing but it's cheaper to buy a set of IMA than 3 of the old right now)
4x IMA Horizon Canopy @ $32.50/ea
4x IMA Magus of the Moon @ $8.90/ea
4x IMA Mana Drain @ 74.30/EA
4x IMA O-Stone @ $4.74/ea
4x IMA Serum Powder @ $0.52/ea
4x IMA Lotus Cobra @ $3.73/ea
2x IMA Flustertorm @ $23.75/ea (I have 2x Commander printing but no deck runs more than 2 so can split my playset since the IMA printing is so much cheaper)
1x M13 Thundermaw Hellkite @ $6.09 (to complete my set)
I'm the type who collects playables and "could be playable in the right environment" for Vintage/Legacy/Modern/Commander whether or not they'd currently go into a deck I'm playing. I like being able to play many decks at the drop of a hat by just diving into my collection. Thoughts on whether to hold off some more?
To me, these all seem like terrific prices. I would snap them up if you have uses for them.
Colt may be right about Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy. They could fall further, although I don't personally think they will fall much more.
I sold my Canopies when IMA debut at HasCon and planned on picking up a set w/ the new art for ~$20/copy. Considering the reception IMA is receiving and the fact that boosters are available at big box stores, I definitely think that will happen once they people who've been waiting to get them pick up their copies. There's no giant demand for the card, so I think it'll hold around $30 and then drop again once the initial wave of demand is gone. I'll probably end up buying in around $25, but just because I hate playing Bogles w/o them lol.
Not all of this is Modern related, but here's what's currently in my TCGPlayer cart. I feel I should continue holding off on these but will defer to the community wisdom here if anybody feels like giving some pointers.
4x IMA Abyssal Persecutor @ $0.55/ea
4x IMA Grove of the Burnwillows @ $12.60/ea (I have 1x the old printing but it's cheaper to buy a set of IMA than 3 of the old right now)
4x IMA Horizon Canopy @ $32.50/ea
4x IMA Magus of the Moon @ $8.90/ea
4x IMA Mana Drain @ 74.30/EA
4x IMA O-Stone @ $4.74/ea
4x IMA Serum Powder @ $0.52/ea
4x IMA Lotus Cobra @ $3.73/ea
2x IMA Flustertorm @ $23.75/ea (I have 2x Commander printing but no deck runs more than 2 so can split my playset since the IMA printing is so much cheaper)
1x M13 Thundermaw Hellkite @ $6.09 (to complete my set)
I'm the type who collects playables and "could be playable in the right environment" for Vintage/Legacy/Modern/Commander whether or not they'd currently go into a deck I'm playing. I like being able to play many decks at the drop of a hat by just diving into my collection. Thoughts on whether to hold off some more?
To me, these all seem like terrific prices. I would snap them up if you have uses for them.
Colt may be right about Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy. They could fall further, although I don't personally think they will fall much more.
It's really going to depend on where this first week goes with drafting. We're hitting Turkey Day / Black Friday week so a lot of people are taking vacation and probably going to be cracking packs of whatever is floating around. With deep sales going on toys in stores, I'm expecting more copies of everything hitting the market soon. Right now we just had the initial dip from release and a mini-bump up in price due to the weekend slump with people buying up their copies of the hot rares. If people are patient, prices are going to drop a little even on the top end, but if someone had money lined up for a playset of Aether Vial and they saw the existing prices I wouldn't be surprised if they just pulled the trigger now.
The point to take away right now is that even though the singles are increasing a little on the top end, look at the prices of the booster boxes. This is nothing like MM2017 where the snap back happened really fast. Only a few cards in the set are really 4x cards in modern so the prices have no way to really hold if a lot of copies start flooding in from draft. And those box prices... man they are the lowest prices I've seen on a masters set ever and no one is buying them because of the super high variance (It really is Mana Drain or bust unless you get the god box, unfortunately), and the cards inside not really having a lot of competitive implications.
FYI, if someone is worried about prices climbing don't and here is why. Singles sellers stop opening boxes when the value no longer is there per box. Since the EV is somewhat low at the moment these sellers probably stopped opening boxes so the prices kind of freeze up on the market. However, the cost to draft the set is lower than normal for a masters set due to the sales and plummeting prices on boxes, so I'd suspect people will be opening it more than usual as a budget masters option. That means prices should continue to drop over the next week or two on most of the cards. I just don't know about aether vial since humans is a thing at the moment.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Just got two horizon canopys at $25 each, free shipping, from a pretty well known online card retailer. Saw some buy it nows on ebay close at $25 as well. I expect the price to get down to around $22 in about two months time but I did not want to wait.
Yeah the prices on TCG player are a fantasy right now. It's actually a better time to trade out of the cards than to trade into them. The actual cards I'm finding more intriguing are the full arts from the Un-set coming out in December. Given the history of unsets, it's probably going to be a conservative first wave and then additional waves if sales are really good and boxes climb to 100+. As it looks right now it's basically buy a box for 36 lands + janky cards.
However, on Iconic Masters I'm expecting most of the set to come crashing down to earth with a couple of outliers. My guess is that Aether Vial, Thoughtseize, Ancestral Vision, and Cryptic Command will recover and hold better than the others. Also, I'm keeping an eye on the curious case of Mishra's Bauble. I'm having whiplash numbers right now with these boxes and I'm starting to wonder if this is what happened with Fatal Push.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
TCGplayer prices are clearly a pipe dream of the sellers at this point. They will drop, just slowly. The "Recently completed" ebay listing feature is what I am using to track what I believe to be the best current price during this time of flux. I'm not sold on ancestral vision recovering any better than horizon canopy. Both are from around the same time period and most of the value was due to the low supply. They also see similar amounts of play. Whatever one does I see the other doing. It appears the supply is outweighing the demand and they will both start to trickle down. I agree thoughtseize, cryptic, and vial will suffer the smallest drop though.
I am keeping an eye on Bauble as well because it is such an interesting case. I believe the supply will greatly outweigh the $5 price tag in the coming weeks, but it also appears that I underestimated the demand for it. I need 4, but I will be holding out on those for at least 2 weeks.
TCGplayer prices are clearly a pipe dream of the sellers at this point. They will drop, just slowly. The "Recently completed" ebay listing feature is what I am using to track what I believe to be the best current price during this time of flux. I'm not sold on ancestral vision recovering any better than horizon canopy. Both are from around the same time period and most of the value was due to the low supply. They also see similar amounts of play. Whatever one does I see the other doing. It appears the supply is outweighing the demand and they will both start to trickle down. I agree thoughtseize, cryptic, and vial will suffer the smallest drop though.
Ancestral Vision is a card that sees no play in any deck for more than a year, and never really saw strong success ever. I'm honestly surprised it's still as high as it is. I should have sold my copies long ago, but stubbornly held on "just in case." Even if I sell today, I'd be taking about a $100 loss, so I might as well just hang onto them.
Yeah, I actually think Horizon Canopy sees more play, will take less of a dip, and has better long term prospects than ancestral vision. I was a little surprised to see colt mention vision over canopy so my point was more that I think AT WORST, canopy and vision will take a similar path from here on out. But yes, I agree with you, I would not be surprised to see the bottom fall out on vision.
TCGplayer prices are clearly a pipe dream of the sellers at this point. They will drop, just slowly. The "Recently completed" ebay listing feature is what I am using to track what I believe to be the best current price during this time of flux. I'm not sold on ancestral vision recovering any better than horizon canopy. Both are from around the same time period and most of the value was due to the low supply. They also see similar amounts of play. Whatever one does I see the other doing. It appears the supply is outweighing the demand and they will both start to trickle down. I agree thoughtseize, cryptic, and vial will suffer the smallest drop though.
Ancestral Vision is a card that sees no play in any deck for more than a year, and never really saw strong success ever. I'm honestly surprised it's still as high as it is. I should have sold my copies long ago, but stubbornly held on "just in case." Even if I sell today, I'd be taking about a $100 loss, so I might as well just hang onto them.
That's actually why a lot of the cards that spiked are holding any value at all. Once the price drops low enough people usually just hang onto the cards rather than sell them off. My thoughts are that if the card is seeing no play currently, there is little chance it will bounce back unless they do another block with suspend. If they do that card would likely get reprinted in it anyway.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I am keeping an eye on Bauble as well because it is such an interesting case. I believe the supply will greatly outweigh the $5 price tag in the coming weeks, but it also appears that I underestimated the demand for it. I need 4, but I will be holding out on those for at least 2 weeks.
I'm a little pinched here because the local store I have a bunch of store credit with is having 20% off singles this weekend. I'd need to bank on it having more than 20% more to lose to be a good idea to not buy this weekend.
Yeah the prices on TCG player are a fantasy right now.
TCGplayer prices are clearly a pipe dream of the sellers at this point.
Yep, I never pay attention to them. Ebay buy it now pricing is much more indicative. I caught/bought a single copy ofMishra's Bauble for $5.00 shipped a few days ago. Haven't seen one that low since. For a brief and I mean brief time I saw a few for $4.95 on buy it now, but that time seems to be past. As far as I'm concerned, barring another fall, these have bottomed out and my prediction of no sub 5 dollar prices (minus TCG baloney) is shown to be true.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Give it a few weeks. People have just started drafting it this week and we are on a holiday as well. A lot of the top cards in the set are new to players that started around Theros / Kahns block so they likely haven't gotten their copies yet. My guess is that due to the sheer number of boxes and packs prices will drop on a lot of the cards over the coming months. It's just that for now prices are holding a bit steady. We literally just hit release last friday.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Give it a few weeks. People have just started drafting it this week and we are on a holiday as well. A lot of the top cards in the set are new to players that started around Theros / Kahns block so they likely haven't gotten their copies yet. My guess is that due to the sheer number of boxes and packs prices will drop on a lot of the cards over the coming months. It's just that for now prices are holding a bit steady. We literally just hit release last friday.
I hope your estimate reigns true. I'm more pessimistic but there is something to be said for wallet fatigue for sure. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Give it a few weeks. People have just started drafting it this week and we are on a holiday as well. A lot of the top cards in the set are new to players that started around Theros / Kahns block so they likely haven't gotten their copies yet. My guess is that due to the sheer number of boxes and packs prices will drop on a lot of the cards over the coming months. It's just that for now prices are holding a bit steady. We literally just hit release last friday.
I hope your estimate reigns true. I'm more pessimistic but there is something to be said for wallet fatigue for sure. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
You too! Right now the boxes are selling at the lower prices so even though stores are losing money on this, there's a lot of openings happening.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The bottom has fallen out of Bloodghast. I can remember not too long it was $20 and hard to find in stock. Kind of a bummer as I bought my playset for $80, for a casual vampire deck. Now it's $10. How low will it go?
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If you are a player that just wants the cards to play and collect (like me) then yes. If you are one of these investment types that treat cardboard like the stock market then no.
Who knows about your second question? I just wish they would up the quality of reprints. Too much dumpster fire jank at all rarity levels in these sets.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
They literally don't have enough good cards to put into these sets to do two masters sets in a year. Also, there is zero way that whoever is dealing with the cards going into the sets even recognizes what a low supply, low demand card looks like vs a moderate supply, high demand one looks like. Yes, a lot of the cards were high money on the secondary market, but that is because they are from Cold Snap / Time Spiral Era. No one is actively playing the cards outside of EDH and while they are cool to see again, they shouldn't have been placed in a 240 dollar box. I don't know how someone could overlook this unless they literally don't play any kind of TCG at all, have zero idea what kind of cards are getting played, and by extension live under a rock someplace with minimal contact with the outside world. I can literally open a browser to MTG Goldfish or some other deck site and see what the high played cards are in a given format and unless EDH REC is showing a card in 90+ percent of all EDH decks it does not have the staying power to hold a price tag with a reprint.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Horizon could drop more
I won't feel too horrible that I bought it so quickly, I've needed the card badly for a while, it dropped enough I won't feel bad
I'm hoping those foil thoughtseizes drop to 40 or 50
I think you took that from Wizards Help Wanted add for Masters Set R&D positions.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The final financial value of this set is probably going to be very low compared to every other Masters set.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
4x IMA Abyssal Persecutor @ $0.55/ea
4x IMA Grove of the Burnwillows @ $12.60/ea (I have 1x the old printing but it's cheaper to buy a set of IMA than 3 of the old right now)
4x IMA Horizon Canopy @ $32.50/ea
4x IMA Magus of the Moon @ $8.90/ea
4x IMA Mana Drain @ 74.30/EA
4x IMA O-Stone @ $4.74/ea
4x IMA Serum Powder @ $0.52/ea
4x IMA Lotus Cobra @ $3.73/ea
2x IMA Flustertorm @ $23.75/ea (I have 2x Commander printing but no deck runs more than 2 so can split my playset since the IMA printing is so much cheaper)
1x M13 Thundermaw Hellkite @ $6.09 (to complete my set)
I'm the type who collects playables and "could be playable in the right environment" for Vintage/Legacy/Modern/Commander whether or not they'd currently go into a deck I'm playing. I like being able to play many decks at the drop of a hat by just diving into my collection. Thoughts on whether to hold off some more?
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Take it with a grain of salt, but Youtube's Rudy from Alpha Investments spoke with someone along the supply chain and learned that Masters 25 will be available in big box stores as well. Dick move to LGS owners.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
I feel like this happened before? Collectable Stores got screwed when inventory shifted to big box stores causing many of the smaller ones to shutter or shift their focus. Comics? Sports Cards?
The best cards to pick up now from Iconic Masters that you listed(and this should be taken with a grain of salt because it really depends on the modern meta) would be...
1) Horizon Canopy. It likely could drop another 20% with time since a lot of packs are being opened and it's only a rare.
2) Grove of the Burnwillows. This one is a very distant 2 because the deck that primarily played it is GR Tron. I don't think I've seen that deck being played a lot lately so the demand on that card is likely not that high.
The rest of those that you listed are fringe right now in modern and do not have a whole lot of demand on them. I'd expect them all to keep dropping as packs are opened. There are a bunch of cards I want from the set, but the prices just can't hold at where they are right now on the singles market. Archangel of Thune and Auriok Champion are two that I'm holding out for. I think Lightning Helix has probably bottomed out, though. That one is getting reprinted with both artworks via Explorers of Ixalan AND Iconic masters. I went with the angry cat version myself, but the original ravnica artwork is nostalgia in a bottle.
Also, note that single sellers are going to be trying to hold the prices as firmly as they can, so expect the decline to be a slow, painful affair. Mythics are the most likely to hold value for a while.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
To me, these all seem like terrific prices. I would snap them up if you have uses for them.
Colt may be right about Grove of the Burnwillows and Horizon Canopy. They could fall further, although I don't personally think they will fall much more.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)I sold my Canopies when IMA debut at HasCon and planned on picking up a set w/ the new art for ~$20/copy. Considering the reception IMA is receiving and the fact that boosters are available at big box stores, I definitely think that will happen once they people who've been waiting to get them pick up their copies. There's no giant demand for the card, so I think it'll hold around $30 and then drop again once the initial wave of demand is gone. I'll probably end up buying in around $25, but just because I hate playing Bogles w/o them lol.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
It's really going to depend on where this first week goes with drafting. We're hitting Turkey Day / Black Friday week so a lot of people are taking vacation and probably going to be cracking packs of whatever is floating around. With deep sales going on toys in stores, I'm expecting more copies of everything hitting the market soon. Right now we just had the initial dip from release and a mini-bump up in price due to the weekend slump with people buying up their copies of the hot rares. If people are patient, prices are going to drop a little even on the top end, but if someone had money lined up for a playset of Aether Vial and they saw the existing prices I wouldn't be surprised if they just pulled the trigger now.
The point to take away right now is that even though the singles are increasing a little on the top end, look at the prices of the booster boxes. This is nothing like MM2017 where the snap back happened really fast. Only a few cards in the set are really 4x cards in modern so the prices have no way to really hold if a lot of copies start flooding in from draft. And those box prices... man they are the lowest prices I've seen on a masters set ever and no one is buying them because of the super high variance (It really is Mana Drain or bust unless you get the god box, unfortunately), and the cards inside not really having a lot of competitive implications.
FYI, if someone is worried about prices climbing don't and here is why. Singles sellers stop opening boxes when the value no longer is there per box. Since the EV is somewhat low at the moment these sellers probably stopped opening boxes so the prices kind of freeze up on the market. However, the cost to draft the set is lower than normal for a masters set due to the sales and plummeting prices on boxes, so I'd suspect people will be opening it more than usual as a budget masters option. That means prices should continue to drop over the next week or two on most of the cards. I just don't know about aether vial since humans is a thing at the moment.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
However, on Iconic Masters I'm expecting most of the set to come crashing down to earth with a couple of outliers. My guess is that Aether Vial, Thoughtseize, Ancestral Vision, and Cryptic Command will recover and hold better than the others. Also, I'm keeping an eye on the curious case of Mishra's Bauble. I'm having whiplash numbers right now with these boxes and I'm starting to wonder if this is what happened with Fatal Push.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I am keeping an eye on Bauble as well because it is such an interesting case. I believe the supply will greatly outweigh the $5 price tag in the coming weeks, but it also appears that I underestimated the demand for it. I need 4, but I will be holding out on those for at least 2 weeks.
Ancestral Vision is a card that sees no play in any deck for more than a year, and never really saw strong success ever. I'm honestly surprised it's still as high as it is. I should have sold my copies long ago, but stubbornly held on "just in case." Even if I sell today, I'd be taking about a $100 loss, so I might as well just hang onto them.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
That's actually why a lot of the cards that spiked are holding any value at all. Once the price drops low enough people usually just hang onto the cards rather than sell them off. My thoughts are that if the card is seeing no play currently, there is little chance it will bounce back unless they do another block with suspend. If they do that card would likely get reprinted in it anyway.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm a little pinched here because the local store I have a bunch of store credit with is having 20% off singles this weekend. I'd need to bank on it having more than 20% more to lose to be a good idea to not buy this weekend.
Yep, I never pay attention to them. Ebay buy it now pricing is much more indicative. I caught/bought a single copy ofMishra's Bauble for $5.00 shipped a few days ago. Haven't seen one that low since. For a brief and I mean brief time I saw a few for $4.95 on buy it now, but that time seems to be past. As far as I'm concerned, barring another fall, these have bottomed out and my prediction of no sub 5 dollar prices (minus TCG baloney) is shown to be true.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I hope your estimate reigns true. I'm more pessimistic but there is something to be said for wallet fatigue for sure. Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
You too! Right now the boxes are selling at the lower prices so even though stores are losing money on this, there's a lot of openings happening.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!