I know frontier is not an official format yet, and I'm not rip the modern format as a whole (please don't post if you think this is a format rip!)
Please let me explain:
Originally, magic formats were numbered. You had type 1, type 1.5, type 2 (standard) and type 2x (extended). When wizards finally banned duals in extended a good number of players that invested in extended decks sifted to type 1.5. As we know type 1.5 broke almost overnight. Wizards respond by breaking the link between type 1 and 1.5 (what's restricted in one format is banned in another) and they decided to give those format's names. Vintage and Legacy. Years ago they decided to make a 3rd "Eternal" format - called Modern as an answer to the rising cost of the reserve list cards.
MaRo was talking about new changes in magic starting with fall of this year, which basically destroys block sets and remaking a core set in the summer of next year. Well it got me thinking since Frontier (not an official format) we could be looking at another new "Eternal" format hatched from these new changes.
Anyway, the word Modern is now missleading. Modern the name seemed to imply that the cards are new and fresh. So it's hard to see why would there be another "Eternal" format after modern. Even though Modern was created in 2011, the format expands from 2003, so we are looking at 14 years of cards. It don't seemed that new and fresh as the name implies.
I wonder if Wizards should rename Modern so it could give the players that the format has grown up. On the otherhand what is a name... But the names Legacy and Vintage do fit very well. Maybe what is screwed up is that Modern had no number attached, like Vintage (type 1) and Legacy (type 1.5). I personally believe Modern should be number as Type 1.75.
I just want to know what is your thoughts about the modern format and how you feel about the name Modern. Thanks.
IIRC it was named Modern also as a tribute to the new cardframe. They were introduced in 8th edition and as such anything from then on would be modern legal because they all had the "modern" card frame. It meant you could immediately recognize what was legal in the format just by looking at the card (barring old reprinted cards obviously). The only thing that has changed is the newest iteration of the card frame from Khans of Tarkir. It still has the "modern" card frame but the bottoms have been changed for readability and the Holofoil stamp for counterfit reasons.There would have to be some very very big changes to rename a format and I highly doubt it'll ever happen.
I think if they have any thought of a "new" modern, it started with Origins. A big complaint people had with modern was it seemed be arbitrarily start at 8th ed because of the card frames, but Origins is clearly a good starting point of a new format. Also, look at the design choices since Origins. They have done quite a bit of mechanic "fixes" in addition to printing the stuff they went on record saying a new modern would not have (fetch lands, lesser extent delve) the block before Origins. Then they passed on the opportunity to print enemy fetches in a standard set and put them in MM instead.
I'd bet money they have already made the decision to use Origins and now they are just determining when to pull the trigger.
IIRC it was named Modern also as a tribute to the new cardframe. They were introduced in 8th edition and as such anything from then on would be modern legal because they all had the "modern" card frame. It meant you could immediately recognize what was legal in the format just by looking at the card (barring old reprinted cards obviously). The only thing that has changed is the newest iteration of the card frame from Khans of Tarkir. It still has the "modern" card frame but the bottoms have been changed for readability and the Holofoil stamp for counterfit reasons.There would have to be some very very big changes to rename a format and I highly doubt it'll ever happen.
But we do have hundreds of reprints thanks from Commander Decks, Archenemy, Eternal Masters, etc that has the modern card frame and they are not modern legal. Sorry but I was never sold on calling the format based on the new card faces, magic has always been changing the card faces. Sure players might know that Force of Will is not legal in modern but how many would know that Carrion Feeder is not legal in modern.
I'm not sure if changing the name of the format is that big of a deal.
And since Fatal Push is almost 8 dollars for an uncommon, shouldn't it warrant a Holofoil stamp? I really believe if wizards wants to curve counterfit they need to Holofoil stamp all the cards. And I do believe it's going to happen... or the market is going to have a flood of counterfit fatal push.
And since Fatal Push is almost 8 dollars for an uncommon, shouldn't it warrant a Holofoil stamp? I really believe if wizards wants to curve counterfit they need to Holofoil stamp all the cards. And I do believe it's going to happen... or the market is going to have a flood of counterfit fatal push.
Right, so every (un)common card that spikes should be reprinted immediately with a holofoil. Bauble, Wraith, Push, Serum Visions, reprint them immediately.
I think if they have any thought of a "new" modern, it started with Origins. A big complaint people had with modern was it seemed be arbitrarily start at 8th ed because of the card frames, but Origins is clearly a good starting point of a new format. Also, look at the design choices since Origins. They have done quite a bit of mechanic "fixes" in addition to printing the stuff they went on record saying a new modern would not have (fetch lands, lesser extent delve) the block before Origins. Then they passed on the opportunity to print enemy fetches in a standard set and put them in MM instead.
I'd bet money they have already made the decision to use Origins and now they are just determining when to pull the trigger.
Umm no. They are not going to arbitrarily change the entire format just to fit your OCD definitions of what makes sense. Seriously who cares what the format is called or why they chose the starting point they did??
I think if they have any thought of a "new" modern, it started with Origins. A big complaint people had with modern was it seemed be arbitrarily start at 8th ed because of the card frames, but Origins is clearly a good starting point of a new format. Also, look at the design choices since Origins. They have done quite a bit of mechanic "fixes" in addition to printing the stuff they went on record saying a new modern would not have (fetch lands, lesser extent delve) the block before Origins. Then they passed on the opportunity to print enemy fetches in a standard set and put them in MM instead.
I'd bet money they have already made the decision to use Origins and now they are just determining when to pull the trigger.
Umm no. They are not going to arbitrarily change the entire format just to fit your OCD definitions of what makes sense. Seriously who cares what the format is called or why they chose the starting point they did??
I'm not talking about changing modern, I'm talking about a future, eternal format. I thought that was pretty clear when I said "Origins is a good starting point for a new format". And that is clearly more of a "when" not an "if". Considering they've already been on record saying a future format would almost surely not involve fetches shows they are already thinking about it.
It isn't my "ocd" definition or even concern, I don't care what they call it but apparently a lot of people do because it is a point that has been brought up more than once that 8th and 9th don't "feel" like the other modern sets and the call to just remove them from the format isn't completely dead, as stupid as it may be.
It's one thing to disagree with someone or misinterpret a post, but it is another thing to be smug about it. Go ahead and refuse to use any foresight or deductive reasoning; I don't care if you are out of the loop.
What makes Origins a good starting point? Because it included character backstories? The cards weren't any more special than any other set, and Origins is part of the sets that have the threats but no answers problem.
What makes Origins a good starting point? Because it included character backstories? The cards weren't any more special than any other set, and Origins is part of the sets that have the threats but no answers problem.
Well, for starters, it is called Origins, as in the beginning. I realize this was sold as being about backstories, but it could also have been a wink/nudge that they should at some point be considering when they will need a new non-rotating format. Modern is filled with mistakes and cards made by people that now have nothing to do with Magic, I'm sure Maro and crew are tired of having to continually attempt to fix those mistakes. They also realize non-rotating formats are essential to the long term health of the game and most likely see it in their best interest to have one that has been more monitored and planned out long term. My evidence for that is Origins was the introduction of their gatewatch love affair which is the new driving point of Magic's story line and kind of a reset to how the story is handled in general.
Another piece of evidence I point towards was the "wrapping up" of unfinished business right before origins. They had never really done an enchantment block so Theros was a good testing grounds for them to judge the appropriate power level of those effects before they simply release way too powerful of cards into their baby of a format. The reset of the timeline that took place in Fate also points to a restart of history. Khans block was also where they finally completed the guilds with the wedges as well as finally gave us a reprint of the fetches. It just seemed to really tie a bow around the old style of magic.
In addition to the fetches which they have said they wouldn't want in a new non-rotating format, they also gave us delve which they have been on record as calling parasitic. Those blocks and instances just seem to me like there was a meeting where someone said "what do we really need to finish up or print before we get to this new starting point?" Everyone has said for years that fetches would not be in a supplemental product like MM because they would make any set they wanted be the most selling set of all time. They didn't need to waste them on MM when that set was going to sell regardless. They would've needed a damn good reason to put them there instead of a standard product.
In the following blocks we then see them attempt to fix landfall, brought back their main villians in eldrazi, introduced their fixed version of threshhold with delirium, completely redid evasion with menace, skulk, prowess, and dropping intimidate and landwalk, reintroduced madness, fixed dredge with the discard to return mechanic, made their fixed version of affinity with improvise...
Just a ton of instances where if you look at it from the "new format" perspective they seem to be getting the archetypes they want in fixed form.
This is all obviously deductive, but when you consider that in some time frame (if they game lasted another 1000 years I think we would all agree that a new non-rotating format would eventually emerge) it just appears to fit together nicely. Now rather or not you agree that we are at the point in magics history to start to consider new non-rotating formats is up to you to determine. You could probably put together just as long of a list as to why this doesn't make sense (we can start with vehicles) but to me it is fun to speculate on and just seems to fit really well. The no answers problem they admitted was something they did not notice and couldn't begin to fix until Hour, that doesn't mean they weren't considering a new format.
I'll just leave this MARO tweet here to end it
"flickerwispyourland asked: When/If: New constructed format
I think if they have any thought of a "new" modern, it started with Origins. A big complaint people had with modern was it seemed be arbitrarily start at 8th ed because of the card frames, but Origins is clearly a good starting point of a new format. Also, look at the design choices since Origins. They have done quite a bit of mechanic "fixes" in addition to printing the stuff they went on record saying a new modern would not have (fetch lands, lesser extent delve) the block before Origins. Then they passed on the opportunity to print enemy fetches in a standard set and put them in MM instead.
I'd bet money they have already made the decision to use Origins and now they are just determining when to pull the trigger.
Umm no. They are not going to arbitrarily change the entire format just to fit your OCD definitions of what makes sense. Seriously who cares what the format is called or why they chose the starting point they did??
I'm not talking about changing modern, I'm talking about a future, eternal format. I thought that was pretty clear when I said "Origins is a good starting point for a new format". And that is clearly more of a "when" not an "if". Considering they've already been on record saying a future format would almost surely not involve fetches shows they are already thinking about it.
It isn't my "ocd" definition or even concern, I don't care what they call it but apparently a lot of people do because it is a point that has been brought up more than once that 8th and 9th don't "feel" like the other modern sets and the call to just remove them from the format isn't completely dead, as stupid as it may be.
It's one thing to disagree with someone or misinterpret a post, but it is another thing to be smug about it. Go ahead and refuse to use any foresight or deductive reasoning; I don't care if you are out of the loop.
Actually it's not clear that you were talking about an entirely new format, since you put new modern in parenthesis. Now that I more clearly understand you, I think that theoretical new format would be pointless and awful. I mean it would be like Modern lite...why the hell would we want or need such a thing?
It seems that WotC is taking a mostly hands off approach to modern and they view it mostly as a collection of mistakes. I enjoy it but I am frustrated by their handling of it. I think they would like to have a non-rotating format that was completely under their control; as in every card that entered the format was created under the same, new design philosophy and mostly under the same supervision. They don't like to reprint cards for whatever reason so it makes the entry point into modern harder and harder for new players.
I'm not advocating it, I'm not saying I'd like it or even play it. I just believe to have seen enough clues to lead me to believe it is something they have been consciously considering even if it is 20 years down the road. I know I've been maintaining my playsets of cards that aren't quite good enough for modern but would be nice in a new format just in case.
Considering they missed the copycat combo coming out of the same block, I am probably giving them waay too much credit.
It seems that WotC is taking a mostly hands off approach to modern and they view it mostly as a collection of mistakes. I enjoy it but I am frustrated by their handling of it. I think they would like to have a non-rotating format that was completely under their control; as in every card that entered the format was created under the same, new design philosophy and mostly under the same supervision. They don't like to reprint cards for whatever reason so it makes the entry point into modern harder and harder for new players.
I'm not advocating it, I'm not saying I'd like it or even play it. I just believe to have seen enough clues to lead me to believe it is something they have been consciously considering even if it is 20 years down the road. I know I've been maintaining my playsets of cards that aren't quite good enough for modern but would be nice in a new format just in case.
Considering they missed the copycat combo coming out of the same block, I am probably giving them waay too much credit.
Yeah you are wayyy off. They have said multiple times they do not play test or design cards with Modern, or any other eternal format in mind. SUre they may give each new set a casual "once over" to see if there is anything super obvious, but that is about it. So your theoretical format where they painstakingly evaluate each card in the format is beyond ridiculous to consider. They don't have the time, manppower or even the notion that such a thing is necessary.
We have Modern, it is what it is and I feel very lucky to have this at all. Extended was the worst thing ever, and every time they changed it, it got even worse. The whole time we were playing extended we wished for something like modern. We have it now, lets just be thankful eh?
Modern dance is still performed and choreographed yet came about in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_dance). It is over 100 years old. Should it no longer be called Modern?
Modern architecture has been around since about World War 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture). That was 80 years ago, yet people still design that way (and my wife and I just bought a home with many of its design elements). Should it no longer be called Modern?
Sure, the word itself implies something fresh and new and current, but don't get hung up on it. The Modern Format of M:tG is still great and has a place.
I think if they have any thought of a "new" modern, it started with Origins. A big complaint people had with modern was it seemed be arbitrarily start at 8th ed because of the card frames, but Origins is clearly a good starting point of a new format. Also, look at the design choices since Origins. They have done quite a bit of mechanic "fixes" in addition to printing the stuff they went on record saying a new modern would not have (fetch lands, lesser extent delve) the block before Origins. Then they passed on the opportunity to print enemy fetches in a standard set and put them in MM instead.
You mean the same design choices that have made this into one of the least popular Standards in history?
Indeed, as Origins onward is just the current Standard plus Origins, this would just be a replication of a format people have been shown to strongly dislike, just with the Origins set added (which I don't think would really remove any of the issues people have).
Unfortunately, and quite apart from any long-winded arguments about "freshness" or card-frames, you've asked a circular or "non" question. The question "does it make sense" doesn't make sense.
The name, as attached to the format, is set. You can't change the name based on a vague feeling of suitability, because it's ingrained in the identity of the format in people's minds. To change the name would be to supplant their mental construct of what the format is.
It's like saying "does the name The Moon make sense anymore?". The answer is simple - the name is just there as a word people can say to each other to instantly identify a concept to each other and have a mutual understanding based on their familiarity with the name. It doesn't need to "make sense" because it's a name.
Tl;dr, it doesn't matter what the initial reasoning was for choosing the name Modern, or whether it "makes sense" now is irrelevant. Once a name attaches itself to something in the collective conscious, it simply becomes an identifier and loses all other meaning. Even talking about it making sense in the context of maybe changing it is kinda pointless. Everyone here's participating in a weird faux-conversation about nothing haha.
Modern dance is still performed and choreographed yet came about in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_dance). It is over 100 years old. Should it no longer be called Modern?
Modern architecture has been around since about World War 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture). That was 80 years ago, yet people still design that way (and my wife and I just bought a home with many of its design elements). Should it no longer be called Modern?
Sure, the word itself implies something fresh and new and current, but don't get hung up on it. The Modern Format of M:tG is still great and has a place.
This is why they made "Frontier" and not "Post-Modern" as the follow-up format. Also PostModern sounds like a format dominated by 12post.
Modern dance is still performed and choreographed yet came about in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_dance). It is over 100 years old. Should it no longer be called Modern?
Modern architecture has been around since about World War 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture). That was 80 years ago, yet people still design that way (and my wife and I just bought a home with many of its design elements). Should it no longer be called Modern?
Sure, the word itself implies something fresh and new and current, but don't get hung up on it. The Modern Format of M:tG is still great and has a place.
This is why they made "Frontier" and not "Post-Modern" as the follow-up format. Also PostModern sounds like a format dominated by 12post.
YOu say "they" and it implies WOTC, but WOTC has nothing to do with Frontier. It's just another name for casual house rules.
Modern dance is still performed and choreographed yet came about in the late 19th and early 20th centuries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_dance). It is over 100 years old. Should it no longer be called Modern?
Modern architecture has been around since about World War 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture). That was 80 years ago, yet people still design that way (and my wife and I just bought a home with many of its design elements). Should it no longer be called Modern?
Sure, the word itself implies something fresh and new and current, but don't get hung up on it. The Modern Format of M:tG is still great and has a place.
This is why they made "Frontier" and not "Post-Modern" as the follow-up format. Also PostModern sounds like a format dominated by 12post.
YOu say "they" and it implies WOTC, but WOTC has nothing to do with Frontier. It's just another name for casual house rules.
Be a fun way to play Magic (first, and easy to forget, but very important!)
Let you tap into your collection to expand upon established decks and familiar strategies from Magic's recent past
Offer different types of decks and gameplay than what you typically see in Standard
Not rotate, allowing you to keep a deck for a long period of time Consist of cards that we are willing and able to reprint
Those are the easy ones. Beyond those, Modern should:
Have a diverse top-tier metagame featuring over a dozen archetypes Not be dominated by fast, non-interactive decks (consistent kills before turn four are a red flag) Be at a power level that allows some newly printed Standard cards to affect the format (we don't have other ways to introduce cards into the format, and we like it when cards or decks can transition)
Have as small a banned list as possible that accomplishes all the previous goals
There's room for interpretation in many of those statements—intentionally—but this paints a clearer picture of how we see Modern.
It seems that WotC is taking a mostly hands off approach to modern and they view it mostly as a collection of mistakes. I enjoy it but I am frustrated by their handling of it. I think they would like to have a non-rotating format that was completely under their control; as in every card that entered the format was created under the same, new design philosophy and mostly under the same supervision. They don't like to reprint cards for whatever reason so it makes the entry point into modern harder and harder for new players.
I'm not advocating it, I'm not saying I'd like it or even play it. I just believe to have seen enough clues to lead me to believe it is something they have been consciously considering even if it is 20 years down the road. I know I've been maintaining my playsets of cards that aren't quite good enough for modern but would be nice in a new format just in case.
Considering they missed the copycat combo coming out of the same block, I am probably giving them waay too much credit.
Yeah you are wayyy off. They have said multiple times they do not play test or design cards with Modern, or any other eternal format in mind. SUre they may give each new set a casual "once over" to see if there is anything super obvious, but that is about it. So your theoretical format where they painstakingly evaluate each card in the format is beyond ridiculous to consider. They don't have the time, manppower or even the notion that such a thing is necessary.
We have Modern, it is what it is and I feel very lucky to have this at all. Extended was the worst thing ever, and every time they changed it, it got even worse. The whole time we were playing extended we wished for something like modern. We have it now, lets just be thankful eh?
Well... in the ops defense, Modern is slipping out of reach for a growing number of people because of the reprint policy. The same reprint policies that have made Legacy and Vintage even further out of reach. If Vintage is now Club 33, then Modern is like the Fastpass at Disneyland.
The majority of my collection is L/V legal, not Modern. If I want in on Modern, that represents a largish purchase to gain interesting cards because of the reprint policies. I could buy cards for Standard, but when the Standard cards are so anemic as to be virtually ignored in Modern when they rotate out, there is virtually no incentive for me to spend money on Standard. In fact, that's one of the reasosns I chose to not purchase Amonkhet or Hour of Devastation boxes this year. Not because I don't have the money but because I consider it a poor investment for play value and I felt the L/V cards I missed out on in the last few years is a better entertainment value for my money.
I hope wizards realizes this is a real problem. Modern is a very poor outlet for Standard cards. You can only convince established players to spend hundreds or thousands each year for so long until they look at their 5000 card boxes of retired Standard cards and wonder what they're going to do with the cards inside. Once enough players realize that, then they'll push for a new format to consume those cards, with ot without WotC blessings.
What bothers me is how Wizards treats the older formats, including Modern. These formats are fantastic. I love them. I feel the hands off approach helps, not hinders these formats. I just want WotC to throw them more than just gristle and bone more often.
I feel that Standard is a terrible format because of the hands on approach WotC takes. Micromanaging the format has led to a sanitary format that's virtually devoid of surprises. WotC knows it and admited as much. It's like hitting the same ride at Disneyland over and over. You can only rotate and introduce new sets for so long before you go right back to square one with the player looking at those card boxes and wondering what to do with the cards inside.
Now imagine that hands on approach in a new WotC official non-rotating format. How long will the format remain viable until it encounters the inevitable problems of every other format before? 5 years? 6? What kind of reprint policy must exist for the format to be healthy and grow? More importantly, how do you encourage existing players of that format to buy packs while assuaging their feers their growing collection is ultimately useless while continuing to make the cost barrier for entry for new players reasonable?
The OP has a point but I think his question is looking in the wrong place. Modern makes no more sense than Vintage or Legacy. That doesn't matter. I think the real question is, would any new format make sense and for whom?
I think you come into the conversation differently than most. You have Legacy and Vintage cards where most players do not. The cost to get into Vintage is much higher than Legacy and the cost to get into Legacy is much higher than Modern. For most players, buying into Modern is much more feasible.
Also, I don't think you are being fair with how Standard cards have recently transitioned to Modern. Collected Company is a Modern staple. The new Eldrazi have been built into multiple tier 1 decks. The current Grixis Control build uses Tasigur, Jace, and Fatal Push. There is even a Tier 2 deck that uses the Saheeli and Felidar Guardian infinite combo.
I think that Modern is awfully healthy right now, and while it isn't perfect, it's a very accessible format.
I think you come into the conversation differently than most. You have Legacy and Vintage cards where most players do not. The cost to get into Vintage is much higher than Legacy and the cost to get into Legacy is much higher than Modern. For most players, buying into Modern is much more feasible.
Also, I don't think you are being fair with how Standard cards have recently transitioned to Modern. Collected Company is a Modern staple. The new Eldrazi have been built into multiple tier 1 decks. The current Grixis Control build uses Tasigur, Jace, and Fatal Push. There is even a Tier 2 deck that uses the Saheeli and Felidar Guardian infinite combo.
I think that Modern is awfully healthy right now, and while it isn't perfect, it's a very accessible format.
Modern will still be around, BUT Wizards will be 100% behind their up-coming new non-rotating format.
All of the tutors and spells that give you big advantages on them now have the clause "exile this card afterwards". They're cleaning up mistakes in preparation. Like what was made clear in an earlier post, they're refining old mechanics. No more degenerate Academy-style decks.
Having fetch-lands in a new format would seriously devalue mono-colored decks, like what has happened with Modern. They also want to get rid of the turn-four (or earlier)solitaire games.
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Please let me explain:
Originally, magic formats were numbered. You had type 1, type 1.5, type 2 (standard) and type 2x (extended). When wizards finally banned duals in extended a good number of players that invested in extended decks sifted to type 1.5. As we know type 1.5 broke almost overnight. Wizards respond by breaking the link between type 1 and 1.5 (what's restricted in one format is banned in another) and they decided to give those format's names. Vintage and Legacy. Years ago they decided to make a 3rd "Eternal" format - called Modern as an answer to the rising cost of the reserve list cards.
MaRo was talking about new changes in magic starting with fall of this year, which basically destroys block sets and remaking a core set in the summer of next year. Well it got me thinking since Frontier (not an official format) we could be looking at another new "Eternal" format hatched from these new changes.
Anyway, the word Modern is now missleading. Modern the name seemed to imply that the cards are new and fresh. So it's hard to see why would there be another "Eternal" format after modern. Even though Modern was created in 2011, the format expands from 2003, so we are looking at 14 years of cards. It don't seemed that new and fresh as the name implies.
I wonder if Wizards should rename Modern so it could give the players that the format has grown up. On the otherhand what is a name... But the names Legacy and Vintage do fit very well. Maybe what is screwed up is that Modern had no number attached, like Vintage (type 1) and Legacy (type 1.5). I personally believe Modern should be number as Type 1.75.
I just want to know what is your thoughts about the modern format and how you feel about the name Modern. Thanks.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
MTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
I'd bet money they have already made the decision to use Origins and now they are just determining when to pull the trigger.
But we do have hundreds of reprints thanks from Commander Decks, Archenemy, Eternal Masters, etc that has the modern card frame and they are not modern legal. Sorry but I was never sold on calling the format based on the new card faces, magic has always been changing the card faces. Sure players might know that Force of Will is not legal in modern but how many would know that Carrion Feeder is not legal in modern.
I'm not sure if changing the name of the format is that big of a deal.
And since Fatal Push is almost 8 dollars for an uncommon, shouldn't it warrant a Holofoil stamp? I really believe if wizards wants to curve counterfit they need to Holofoil stamp all the cards. And I do believe it's going to happen... or the market is going to have a flood of counterfit fatal push.
In his Second 100 days - Yawgmoth's Bargain is unrestricted in Vintage.
What is going to happen in the Next 100 days!!!
Right, so every (un)common card that spikes should be reprinted immediately with a holofoil. Bauble, Wraith, Push, Serum Visions, reprint them immediately.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I'm not talking about changing modern, I'm talking about a future, eternal format. I thought that was pretty clear when I said "Origins is a good starting point for a new format". And that is clearly more of a "when" not an "if". Considering they've already been on record saying a future format would almost surely not involve fetches shows they are already thinking about it.
It isn't my "ocd" definition or even concern, I don't care what they call it but apparently a lot of people do because it is a point that has been brought up more than once that 8th and 9th don't "feel" like the other modern sets and the call to just remove them from the format isn't completely dead, as stupid as it may be.
It's one thing to disagree with someone or misinterpret a post, but it is another thing to be smug about it. Go ahead and refuse to use any foresight or deductive reasoning; I don't care if you are out of the loop.
Well, for starters, it is called Origins, as in the beginning. I realize this was sold as being about backstories, but it could also have been a wink/nudge that they should at some point be considering when they will need a new non-rotating format. Modern is filled with mistakes and cards made by people that now have nothing to do with Magic, I'm sure Maro and crew are tired of having to continually attempt to fix those mistakes. They also realize non-rotating formats are essential to the long term health of the game and most likely see it in their best interest to have one that has been more monitored and planned out long term. My evidence for that is Origins was the introduction of their gatewatch love affair which is the new driving point of Magic's story line and kind of a reset to how the story is handled in general.
Another piece of evidence I point towards was the "wrapping up" of unfinished business right before origins. They had never really done an enchantment block so Theros was a good testing grounds for them to judge the appropriate power level of those effects before they simply release way too powerful of cards into their baby of a format. The reset of the timeline that took place in Fate also points to a restart of history. Khans block was also where they finally completed the guilds with the wedges as well as finally gave us a reprint of the fetches. It just seemed to really tie a bow around the old style of magic.
In addition to the fetches which they have said they wouldn't want in a new non-rotating format, they also gave us delve which they have been on record as calling parasitic. Those blocks and instances just seem to me like there was a meeting where someone said "what do we really need to finish up or print before we get to this new starting point?" Everyone has said for years that fetches would not be in a supplemental product like MM because they would make any set they wanted be the most selling set of all time. They didn't need to waste them on MM when that set was going to sell regardless. They would've needed a damn good reason to put them there instead of a standard product.
In the following blocks we then see them attempt to fix landfall, brought back their main villians in eldrazi, introduced their fixed version of threshhold with delirium, completely redid evasion with menace, skulk, prowess, and dropping intimidate and landwalk, reintroduced madness, fixed dredge with the discard to return mechanic, made their fixed version of affinity with improvise...
Just a ton of instances where if you look at it from the "new format" perspective they seem to be getting the archetypes they want in fixed form.
This is all obviously deductive, but when you consider that in some time frame (if they game lasted another 1000 years I think we would all agree that a new non-rotating format would eventually emerge) it just appears to fit together nicely. Now rather or not you agree that we are at the point in magics history to start to consider new non-rotating formats is up to you to determine. You could probably put together just as long of a list as to why this doesn't make sense (we can start with vehicles) but to me it is fun to speculate on and just seems to fit really well. The no answers problem they admitted was something they did not notice and couldn't begin to fix until Hour, that doesn't mean they weren't considering a new format.
I'll just leave this MARO tweet here to end it
"flickerwispyourland asked: When/If: New constructed format
When."
I'm not advocating it, I'm not saying I'd like it or even play it. I just believe to have seen enough clues to lead me to believe it is something they have been consciously considering even if it is 20 years down the road. I know I've been maintaining my playsets of cards that aren't quite good enough for modern but would be nice in a new format just in case.
Considering they missed the copycat combo coming out of the same block, I am probably giving them waay too much credit.
Yeah you are wayyy off. They have said multiple times they do not play test or design cards with Modern, or any other eternal format in mind. SUre they may give each new set a casual "once over" to see if there is anything super obvious, but that is about it. So your theoretical format where they painstakingly evaluate each card in the format is beyond ridiculous to consider. They don't have the time, manppower or even the notion that such a thing is necessary.
We have Modern, it is what it is and I feel very lucky to have this at all. Extended was the worst thing ever, and every time they changed it, it got even worse. The whole time we were playing extended we wished for something like modern. We have it now, lets just be thankful eh?
Modern architecture has been around since about World War 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_architecture). That was 80 years ago, yet people still design that way (and my wife and I just bought a home with many of its design elements). Should it no longer be called Modern?
Sure, the word itself implies something fresh and new and current, but don't get hung up on it. The Modern Format of M:tG is still great and has a place.
Standard: lol no
Modern: BG/x, UR/x, Burn, Merfolk, Zoo, Storm
Legacy: Shardless BUG, Delver (BUG, RUG, Grixis), Landstill, Depths Combo, Merfolk
Vintage: Dark Times, BUG Fish, Merfolk
EDH: Teysa, Orzhov Scion / Krenko, Mob Boss / Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
Indeed, as Origins onward is just the current Standard plus Origins, this would just be a replication of a format people have been shown to strongly dislike, just with the Origins set added (which I don't think would really remove any of the issues people have).
The name, as attached to the format, is set. You can't change the name based on a vague feeling of suitability, because it's ingrained in the identity of the format in people's minds. To change the name would be to supplant their mental construct of what the format is.
It's like saying "does the name The Moon make sense anymore?". The answer is simple - the name is just there as a word people can say to each other to instantly identify a concept to each other and have a mutual understanding based on their familiarity with the name. It doesn't need to "make sense" because it's a name.
Tl;dr, it doesn't matter what the initial reasoning was for choosing the name Modern, or whether it "makes sense" now is irrelevant. Once a name attaches itself to something in the collective conscious, it simply becomes an identifier and loses all other meaning. Even talking about it making sense in the context of maybe changing it is kinda pointless. Everyone here's participating in a weird faux-conversation about nothing haha.
You are absolutely right:
Modern should:
Be a fun way to play Magic (first, and easy to forget, but very important!)
Let you tap into your collection to expand upon established decks and familiar strategies from Magic's recent past
Offer different types of decks and gameplay than what you typically see in Standard
Not rotate, allowing you to keep a deck for a long period of time
Consist of cards that we are willing and able to reprint
Those are the easy ones. Beyond those, Modern should:
Have a diverse top-tier metagame featuring over a dozen archetypes
Not be dominated by fast, non-interactive decks (consistent kills before turn four are a red flag)
Be at a power level that allows some newly printed Standard cards to affect the format (we don't have other ways to introduce cards into the format, and we like it when cards or decks can transition)
Have as small a banned list as possible that accomplishes all the previous goals
There's room for interpretation in many of those statements—intentionally—but this paints a clearer picture of how we see Modern.
Someone's scared. lol
Well... in the ops defense, Modern is slipping out of reach for a growing number of people because of the reprint policy. The same reprint policies that have made Legacy and Vintage even further out of reach. If Vintage is now Club 33, then Modern is like the Fastpass at Disneyland.
The majority of my collection is L/V legal, not Modern. If I want in on Modern, that represents a largish purchase to gain interesting cards because of the reprint policies. I could buy cards for Standard, but when the Standard cards are so anemic as to be virtually ignored in Modern when they rotate out, there is virtually no incentive for me to spend money on Standard. In fact, that's one of the reasosns I chose to not purchase Amonkhet or Hour of Devastation boxes this year. Not because I don't have the money but because I consider it a poor investment for play value and I felt the L/V cards I missed out on in the last few years is a better entertainment value for my money.
I hope wizards realizes this is a real problem. Modern is a very poor outlet for Standard cards. You can only convince established players to spend hundreds or thousands each year for so long until they look at their 5000 card boxes of retired Standard cards and wonder what they're going to do with the cards inside. Once enough players realize that, then they'll push for a new format to consume those cards, with ot without WotC blessings.
What bothers me is how Wizards treats the older formats, including Modern. These formats are fantastic. I love them. I feel the hands off approach helps, not hinders these formats. I just want WotC to throw them more than just gristle and bone more often.
I feel that Standard is a terrible format because of the hands on approach WotC takes. Micromanaging the format has led to a sanitary format that's virtually devoid of surprises. WotC knows it and admited as much. It's like hitting the same ride at Disneyland over and over. You can only rotate and introduce new sets for so long before you go right back to square one with the player looking at those card boxes and wondering what to do with the cards inside.
Now imagine that hands on approach in a new WotC official non-rotating format. How long will the format remain viable until it encounters the inevitable problems of every other format before? 5 years? 6? What kind of reprint policy must exist for the format to be healthy and grow? More importantly, how do you encourage existing players of that format to buy packs while assuaging their feers their growing collection is ultimately useless while continuing to make the cost barrier for entry for new players reasonable?
The OP has a point but I think his question is looking in the wrong place. Modern makes no more sense than Vintage or Legacy. That doesn't matter. I think the real question is, would any new format make sense and for whom?
Also, I don't think you are being fair with how Standard cards have recently transitioned to Modern. Collected Company is a Modern staple. The new Eldrazi have been built into multiple tier 1 decks. The current Grixis Control build uses Tasigur, Jace, and Fatal Push. There is even a Tier 2 deck that uses the Saheeli and Felidar Guardian infinite combo.
I think that Modern is awfully healthy right now, and while it isn't perfect, it's a very accessible format.
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Modern will still be around, BUT Wizards will be 100% behind their up-coming new non-rotating format.
All of the tutors and spells that give you big advantages on them now have the clause "exile this card afterwards". They're cleaning up mistakes in preparation. Like what was made clear in an earlier post, they're refining old mechanics. No more degenerate Academy-style decks.
Having fetch-lands in a new format would seriously devalue mono-colored decks, like what has happened with Modern. They also want to get rid of the turn-four (or earlier)solitaire games.