I also wonder how Zealous Persecution would work out? It'd be really strong against Faeries and is instant so it can hit their guys after they've flashed in at our EOT.
In place of whatever you use to survive long enough for those ramp and draw spells to pay off.
Speaking space issues, could glittering wish be used to help alieviate that issue? Are there enough multi-colored cards this deck could make use of?
edit: forget the glittering wish, not enough targets
Do you guys ever consider Knollspine Invocation over form of the dragon? Its a bit anti-synergic with meijin, but I guess we rarely need more than a -3/-0...
FotD is a moat too, and it's more consistent, also the reset to 5 life at EOT is nice. doesn't require mana. knollspine would be easier to hardcast but wouldn't do much for you if u did. just doesn't work out
My Modern meta is pretty aggro oriented so does this deck fold to aggro decks like Boros or Zoo?
Also a fully leveled Figure of Destiny or Serra Ascendant seem like they wreck this deck.
aggro is fairly easy, you run timely reinforcements or pyroclasm like cards and getting to turn 5 is easy. after that good luck breaking through FotD, meishin, and others. figure of destiny and serra ascendant will so rarely get fully active before turn 7-8 there's no point in even considering them. and even if they do get threatening, drop a phyrexian unlife and they can't touch you. i think i've only had one game where my opponent had a big-ol flyer like that, it was a delver with 2 batterskulls attached. it did all of 3 damage a turn. then there's emrakuel but everything folds to him. not that there aren't answers in the deck should we get a turn 5 or earlier ideal... but he's still emrakuel.
oh, and where are you that boros/zoo are dominant?
Also a fully leveled Figure of Destiny or Serra Ascendant seem like they wreck this deck.
All we need is to reduce their power to 4 and we still win. That's 4 cards in hand max. And we don't get Form if you have lethal on board, come on. Additionally, Oblivion Ring.
I briefly tested Timely Reinforcements in the IoK spot in my list, and I have to say, I'm very impressed. It buys an incredible amount of time; probably more than a turn one IoK does. With that change, my mana is 3-color and more stable. Although, color fixing has never really been a problem for me.
I'm gonna keep testing Timely Reinforcements because I think it does have a lot of potential as a maindeck card.
In case anyone is running my list, the changes are:
I haven't dropped Gemstone Mine or City of Brass yet, but those may not be necessary anymore. I like having some lands that can bounce back to my hand without having to pay 2 life to return them to play.
And to the people not playing maindeck Silence, try it already! It is seriously a timewalk against any aggro deck turn one (!!!) and is a complete trump to counterspells.
Hopefully timely reinforcements continues to get love, such a good card. Silence on the other hand... I side it out almost every game, I've been using it for a time now and can say its rarely useful. Maybe you just face more control decks than me. But even against them, there's boseiju, remand(or any other counter), or just having 3 extra mana for leak.
Here's an idea that'll make budget players cringe: vendilion clique.
Cycle enchantments we don't want In hand, knock out there counters ahead of time like silence but a turn earlier, provide a body to either speed up the clock or chump with.
I kinda regret saying our critical turn is the fourth, because it's really the turn before we'd lose. Try See Beyond instead of Serum Visions. Blind draw is really bad in this deck. My biggest complaint is the lack of Sensei's Divining Top because drawing our enchantments is infuriating.
As for Silence, I believe it's a skill demanding card. Shutting off their critical turn plays is more important than casting it in their upkeep because you have W open. It reminds me of Cabal Therapy in that in can be really bad until you practice a lot with it. I think it still the best tool to fight counters, while Timely Reinforcements is our best option against aggro. About 95% of modern decks still attack you to win, so TR is actually solid against control as well.
Maybe IoK and TR would be a solid delay package because they are each broader cards than Silence.
Honestly critical turn seems to be 5 IMO.
%90 of my games I can play ideal on turn 5. But I can usually draw it out to turn 7-8 if I need to. I'll maintain silence isn't north having more than 2 of in your total 75. Also, unlife seems just soooo much better than meishin, after I added 1 unlife I almost never needed to grab meishin, and the one time I did, I lost. Something worth noticing between the two, drawing unlife isn't bad at all, it's easy to hardcast, gives an extra turn or 2 vs aggro, more against creature light decks, and you won't need to spend a turn idealing for it. So now I just run 2 unlifes and no meishin or souls' betrayal.
I run 2 Meishin and 1 Unlife. Unlife is cool, but Meishin is classy.
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Currently playing:
Modern: WUBRG Tribal Zoo WUBRG
Legacy: UG Post UG
Commander: RUG Maelstrom Wanderer (competitive) RUG WUBRG Progenitus 67-land control WUBRG WUBRG Horde of Notions (competitive French) WUBRG
If you are going to run meishin at least drop to one, just my advice.
What counters have you guys been using? I'm not as impressed by remand's performance as everyone else seems to be. Personally, I find condescend to just be better 9 times out of 10. Blind draw = meh, and all that
I'm not a fan of creatures in combo at all. One of the strengths of the archetype is that you create virtual card advantage by blanking their removal spells. If you want Clique in the sideboard, I can get behind that more since most opposition will side out those creature-kill spells. This extends to Court Hussar, although he isn't sideboard material. But if you expect a single 3/1 to go the distance, I think you'll be sorely disappointed most of the time.
I will test out Phyrexian Unlife in Meishin's slot next time I have a long session. I'm not sure how anyone doesn't want the Curse/Night slot, especially if you fetch Dovescape first most of the time (which I definitely do). My opponent always tries to stay in the game by making birds, so I need that -1/-1 in order to safely get Form. This will be doubly true if Unlife turns out stronger than Meishin.
unlife is a great card, coupled with form it gives you so many turns. decks without burn have a hard to time putting poison on you the same turn they attack down to 0.
1-1 split between meishin and curse has been really good so far.
how has timely been for anyone who is testing and what did you cut for it?
unlife is a great card, coupled with form it gives you so many turns. decks without burn have a hard to time putting poison on you the same turn they attack down to 0.
1-1 split between meishin and curse has been really good so far.
how has timely been for anyone who is testing and what did you cut for it?
timely is phenomenal and cut anything resembling pyroclasm
Yeah I'm moving the Silences out and am playing IoK main deck once again. It's a really easy switch and should improve every non-control matchup, while maintaining the same percentages against blue.
i'd slim it down to 1 dovescape and drop the night of souls' betrayal for another unlife or even a meishin. also you should consider thinning out those lotus blooms, 2 seems to be best imo. throw a couple cliques and another card of your choice on in and your in business.
I won't ever drop below two Form and two Dovescape. They are the most crucial enchantments in the deck. If I go...
1. Dovescape
2. Night of Souls' Betrayal
3. Form of the Dragon
...how does that lose? Especially with Phyrexian Unlife available to be tossed in anywhere in that sequence.
I already stated my position on creatures in the deck. You'll only turn on their removal spells. If you want yo bring in Clique g2 as an alternate win con, then that's more understandable because a smart player will realize you're on combo and take out their dead spells (like that Path to Exile they held all game). See what I'm saying?
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Timely Reinforcements in place of what?
The deck is pretty tight with ramp cards, dig, and combo pieces....
H/W List http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=112656
Speaking space issues, could glittering wish be used to help alieviate that issue? Are there enough multi-colored cards this deck could make use of?
edit: forget the glittering wish, not enough targets
FotD is a moat too, and it's more consistent, also the reset to 5 life at EOT is nice. doesn't require mana. knollspine would be easier to hardcast but wouldn't do much for you if u did. just doesn't work out
aggro is fairly easy, you run timely reinforcements or pyroclasm like cards and getting to turn 5 is easy. after that good luck breaking through FotD, meishin, and others. figure of destiny and serra ascendant will so rarely get fully active before turn 7-8 there's no point in even considering them. and even if they do get threatening, drop a phyrexian unlife and they can't touch you. i think i've only had one game where my opponent had a big-ol flyer like that, it was a delver with 2 batterskulls attached. it did all of 3 damage a turn. then there's emrakuel but everything folds to him. not that there aren't answers in the deck should we get a turn 5 or earlier ideal... but he's still emrakuel.
oh, and where are you that boros/zoo are dominant?
Now I'm trying to build a pure combo version, with focus on be faster and have a little protection with 4 Silence MD and 4 Simian.
Thoughts?
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
All we need is to reduce their power to 4 and we still win. That's 4 cards in hand max. And we don't get Form if you have lethal on board, come on. Additionally, Oblivion Ring.
seems hard to do w/o preordain / ponder. but it could work
4 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Mistveil Plains
2 Plains
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Clifftop Retreat
2 Steam Vents
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
Creatures (3)
3 Court Hussar
4 Serum Visions
4 Peer Through Depths
4 Enduring Ideal
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Form of the Dragon
2 Meishin, the Mind Cage
1 Dovescape
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Seething Song
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Silence
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Wrath of God
2 Boseiju
1 Blood Moon
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Curse of Death's Hold
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
I'm gonna keep testing Timely Reinforcements because I think it does have a lot of potential as a maindeck card.
In case anyone is running my list, the changes are:
-1 Godless Shrine
-1 Orzhov Basilica
-4 Inquisition of Kozilek
+1 Sacred Foundry
+1 Plains
+4 Timely Reinforcements
I haven't dropped Gemstone Mine or City of Brass yet, but those may not be necessary anymore. I like having some lands that can bounce back to my hand without having to pay 2 life to return them to play.
And to the people not playing maindeck Silence, try it already! It is seriously a timewalk against any aggro deck turn one (!!!) and is a complete trump to counterspells.
Here's an idea that'll make budget players cringe: vendilion clique.
Cycle enchantments we don't want In hand, knock out there counters ahead of time like silence but a turn earlier, provide a body to either speed up the clock or chump with.
My problem right now is that I'm having some problem to make a consistent turn 4 Ideal! Usually turn 5 or 6!
Maybe is just the last games I played...I managed to win at least 50% anyway, but this makes me sad!
Moderm - Mono blue Tron and Eldrazi variants
Legacy - Building Eldrazi Stompy
My team for ever ever:
Sport Club Internacional
www.internacional.com.br
As for Silence, I believe it's a skill demanding card. Shutting off their critical turn plays is more important than casting it in their upkeep because you have W open. It reminds me of Cabal Therapy in that in can be really bad until you practice a lot with it. I think it still the best tool to fight counters, while Timely Reinforcements is our best option against aggro. About 95% of modern decks still attack you to win, so TR is actually solid against control as well.
Maybe IoK and TR would be a solid delay package because they are each broader cards than Silence.
%90 of my games I can play ideal on turn 5. But I can usually draw it out to turn 7-8 if I need to. I'll maintain silence isn't north having more than 2 of in your total 75. Also, unlife seems just soooo much better than meishin, after I added 1 unlife I almost never needed to grab meishin, and the one time I did, I lost. Something worth noticing between the two, drawing unlife isn't bad at all, it's easy to hardcast, gives an extra turn or 2 vs aggro, more against creature light decks, and you won't need to spend a turn idealing for it. So now I just run 2 unlifes and no meishin or souls' betrayal.
Modern:
WUBRG Tribal Zoo WUBRG
Legacy:
UG Post UG
Commander:
RUG Maelstrom Wanderer (competitive) RUG
WUBRG Progenitus 67-land control WUBRG
WUBRG Horde of Notions (competitive French) WUBRG
What counters have you guys been using? I'm not as impressed by remand's performance as everyone else seems to be. Personally, I find condescend to just be better 9 times out of 10. Blind draw = meh, and all that
I will test out Phyrexian Unlife in Meishin's slot next time I have a long session. I'm not sure how anyone doesn't want the Curse/Night slot, especially if you fetch Dovescape first most of the time (which I definitely do). My opponent always tries to stay in the game by making birds, so I need that -1/-1 in order to safely get Form. This will be doubly true if Unlife turns out stronger than Meishin.
1-1 split between meishin and curse has been really good so far.
how has timely been for anyone who is testing and what did you cut for it?
timely is phenomenal and cut anything resembling pyroclasm
3 Arid Mesa
3 Marsh Flats
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Plains
4 Gemstone Mine
3 City of Brass
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Boros Garrison
Spells
4 Lotus Bloom
4 Pentad Prism
4 Seething Song
4 Peer Through Depths
4 See Beyond
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Timely Reinforcements
4 Enduring Ideal
2 Dovescape
2 Form of the Dragon
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Phyrexian Unlife
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Blood Moon
1 Greater Auramancy
3 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3 Pithing Needle
3 Wrath of God
1. Dovescape
2. Night of Souls' Betrayal
3. Form of the Dragon
...how does that lose? Especially with Phyrexian Unlife available to be tossed in anywhere in that sequence.
I already stated my position on creatures in the deck. You'll only turn on their removal spells. If you want yo bring in Clique g2 as an alternate win con, then that's more understandable because a smart player will realize you're on combo and take out their dead spells (like that Path to Exile they held all game). See what I'm saying?