so im asking this here, cause im not exactly the best deck builder out there, unless its rougeish stuff, but then that stuff usually doesnt work either.
but do any of you think it could be viable in modern?
It wouldn't be able to be especially competitive, because it would be hard to interact with combo much faster decks like Tron, Scapeshift, and Splinter Twin. This doesn't mean it's not worth looking into. If you were to do it, it'd probably be a turbo fog deck, it'd run Fog effects like Pollen Lullaby along with counter spells like Dissipate to stall the game until you could win with Maze's End. For card advantage, Howling Mine and Font of Mythos could work. An alternate win condition would be something like a late game White Sun's Zenith. Good luck, I'll be keeping tabs on this thread, I've wanted to play Modern Maze's End for a while now, but I haven't had the energy to put together a list.
Probably would have to go green/blue and play some type of counter suite like remand and condescend
I could see it working but could also see people saying just play the amulet of vigor karoo land deck instead as its more explosive. you'd have to play blue because, more importantly than land destruction is blood moon in the format. Blue would also get you trinket mage to fetch the amulet. instead of fog effects though I would be playing stuff like wall of blossoms and wall of roots
You'd also want cards like skyshroud ranger and sakura-tribe scout and scapeshift
Yeah my idea was to run a turbo fog show list, and blue/been were the main colors in mind.
I was also think about cards like privileged position to help protect against land destruction and maybe even a chromatic lantern to prevent against blood moon effects.
Was also thinking about crucible of worlds + ghost quarter for some land destruction of my own that could reoccur.
But I'll probably throw a rough list together later on and post on here
Its so, so, so very slow. And only one way to really attack. Maze's End really only enables a much worse Omnidoor Thragfire deck, and that worked well in standard but isn't really positioned to do anything in modern.
you could play it like the old 12 post deck, through the breachprimeval titan netting yourself a 4 land gain and a swing for 6. then maybe use Crackling Perimeter to finish your opponent off. if pinging them with it before hand wasn't enough already. then maze's end becomes an early win if fulminator mage doesn't screw it over.
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I think that you need to run 2 copies of each of the gates and 4 maze's end to not get screwed by ghost Quarter. You could use crackling permiter as an alternate win condition if all else goes wrong and I think you could build a tier 1 Maze's End deck for Modern
I'd posted this deck that I'd come up with in the Turbo-Fog thread, but it may be more relevant here. Anyways, this is the Maze's End deck that I'd come up with:
What about 4x Countryside Crusher and 4x Life from the Loam? Then you'd be able to put lands you need in the graveyard, giving you board presence with the Crusher, and get them back with Loam. That seems like a better plan than just fogging, although the deck is still super weak to direct damage.
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
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Hey guys, this seems to be an old thread but I thought I'd add my two cents. I played mazes end in standard and thought it was fun, so now I am thinking of it in modern. This seems to be a promising deck idea since the opponent can not interact with our ability to look up the gates and win. There are a couple ways you can go with it. You seem to be discussing the turbo fog version a lot, but I also think there could be some sort of prison type aspect to it where you spend early turns locking your opponent out of doing anything, then you slowly kill them by getting the guild gates.
We also don't need to run two of each guild gate. We can play crucible of worlds and life of the loam to play around our gates being destroyed. This will open ten more slots for us to have faster and more reliable mana with fetch and dual lands. This will counteract the decks natural weakness which is its slow tempo by having every land come into play tapped. This will speed up the deck without having to rely on a card like amulet of vigor. Plus, we'll have some slots for basic lands so we don't get blown out by blood moon. Other land destruction can be negated by the loams and crucibles. If they have crumble to dust or sowing salt to exile our lands, then we try to win with crackling perimeter.
Scapeshift seems like it could be spicy in our deck too...
Has anyone tried a prison version with only one copy of each guild gate like I described? Does anyone play this at their fnm? Any results or testing that we can share? I'm really interested in hearing people's developments with this deck idea.
EDIT: I have been toying around with this deck idea in my head for a few days. I am thinking of something along the lines of a GW deck that uses fogs, and removal to stay alive, prisons to lock your opponent out, and eventually Knight of the Reliquary, Scapeshift, Crucible of Worlds to continually cycle through your lands and find Maze's End and all the gates. The sideboard would contain enchantment removal for Blood Moon and alternate win conditions if our lands are exiled by Sowing Salt and/or Crumble to Dust. The alternate win cons would be Crackling Perimeter and maybe even a fun-of Door to Nothingness.
I'm still brewing this in my head and maybe I'll try to proxy it and play test it before I invest in it, but I'll keep updating in case someone is actually interested in this thread.
EDIT 2:
I have brainstormed a very rough main deck. I'll post it here and explain why I made each choice that I did. I really do want to hear feedback from anyone reading this, as I am no expert in modern. So I don't know if this deck just totally loses to some of the main archetypes or not. And I am not familiar with the best sideboard cards. But anyways, here goes, the GW Modern Maze's End
Deck Tech:
Main Engine - Like I said, I didn't just want to go the turbo fog rout with like 24 fog effects and just sit there for 10 turns and win. We lose to a lot of things like burn, counter spells. We just don't interact with our opponents at all and have a super slow kill. Only the fastest/best combos can worry about not affecting their opponents. So I was looking for other engines to quickly get lands onto the battlefield and I eventually thought of Knight of the Reliquary. Just by tapping him and not three other mana, we can get another gate on the field. Plus Scapeshift can do the same thing but a lot more at one time. And since we are destroying so many lands with our search effects, we need a way to recycle them, so here comes Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds. Loam also plays another important role explained later on. This is a much faster engine than just fogging and activating Maze's End once a turn. With this engine, We can Scapeshift about three or four gates into play, activate Knight on the opponent's turn, activate Knight on our turn and then activate Maze. All in the span of two turns, we got six-ish gates.
Manabase - obviously we need Maze's End and 1 of each gate, so there is not much room for other lands. With reliance on Knight, we need a lot Plains and Forests, so I just figured we should only be using those, so that everything could be used by the Knight. We only need 2 Maze's End and 1 of each guildgate since any main deck land destruction is negated by the Loams and Crucibles. We just have to make sure the first land that we get with the Knight is actually Maze's End, before the Knight is killed.
Prison - Ghostly Prison and Ensnaring Bridge are obvious against aggro and stopping creatures. It also works against Twin too! And against burn or other non-creature damage, we have Peace of Mind to gain life. I listed this under the Prison section because prior to combat, we can ditch our hand to gain a bunch of life which makes the Ensnaring Bridges better. The Loams will help recover three lands which we can just ditch again for a ton of life and improve our Bridge.
Fogs - I threw in 8 of the cheapest, best fogs for combat damage, but these might be flexible. If the Prison aspect of the deck is strong enough, I can see this number reducing down to 6. Also, the white pact Intervention Pact is worth a look.
Removal - Beast Within is so versatile. Plus hopefully a 3/3 will be blocked by a bridge or cancelled out by the Peace o fMind + Loam life gain.
Sideboard cards will include Leyline of Sanctity, Wear/Tear, Crackling Perimeter, Kor Firewalker, Sanctimony, Choke. Not sure what else to include. I know that technically, I will have access to all five colors of mana, so the tool box is wide open (I was even thinking of something like Genju of the Realm), but I want to try and stick to GW as much as possible for consistency.
EDIT 3: A little bit more thinking about it and now I am thinking that the fogs are unnecessary. I know that there is a UW Enduring Ideal Deck that uses prisons to shut down the opponent then casts Enduring Ideal to go find Phyrexian Unlife and Form of the Dragon to stay alive indefinitely and win the game. I feel like a GW prison deck should work the same way, but instead of trying to land Enduring Ideal late in the game (which is vulnerable to counters and costs 7 mana) just try to Scapeshift and Knight of the Reliquary your way to a faster win. So we could take out those 8 fogs and put in more prison style effects.
EDIT 4: Here is my rough idea on how to build a prison style deck which locks out the opponent, and then tries to win via Maze's End. I tried to copy the core prison aspect of this build from the thread on the WU Enduring Ideal deck, although I couldn't include as much since my main engine include 13 cards.
Here is a version that I have come up with. I have taken this deck on as a new project to expand my magic iq. Meaning that I want to try and make the best version of this deck possible, main goal for this is to go 4-0 at an fnm. Any criticism would be appreciated.
Instant
4 x Fog
4 x Holy Day
4 x Dawn Charm
4 x Batwing Brume
Land
1 x Boros Guildgate
2 x Azorius Guildgate
2 x Selesnya Guildgate
1 x Golgari Guildgate
1 x Gruul Guildgate
2 x Plains
4 x Maze's End
3 x Forest
1 x Island
2 x Simic Guildgate
2 x Izzet Guildgate
1 x Orzhov Guildgate
1 x Dimir Guildgate
1 x Rakdos Guildgate
Planeswalker
1 x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Legend
3 x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Creature
1 x Thing in the Ice
4 x Sakura-Tribe Scout
Artifact
4 x Amulet of Vigor
Sorcery
4 x Explore
3 x Ancient Stirrings
Sideboard
1 x Pulse of Murasa
2 x Supreme Verdict
2 x Abrupt Decay
2 x Negate
1 x Crackling Perimeter
2 x Ashes of the Abhorrent
1 x Engineered Explosives
2 x Kor Firewalker
2 x Tireless Tracker
So basically I have 2 flex slots atm, but even if the deck is mainly RG we have 5 color lands so basically you could add in anything, also for the sideboard. but maybe you want to have a basic forest to kill blood moon and be able to cast Sakura-Tribe scout and Life from the loam or nature's claim and splendid reclamation when blood moon hits the field.
4 Nature's claim main are for the situation when you can't play lands and need to destroy your own Aggressive mining and also gain 4 life
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Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Be carefull, you NEED to get into consideration maindeck bloodmoons or other. Or you maindeck enchantment removal, or you get an alternative wincon.
By the way, the fog version of this deck will never work against real-Tron, jund, burn nor storm.
Tron-jund : they can wait and ultimate their planeswalker (lili to destroy your lands, karn to reset the game
Burn : just topdecking lava spikes will do
Storm : need a picture ?
As such, Heskatet's list seems the closest one to something possible.
A tweak I'd do still : remove the doubles of gates and add some basic forests (5-6) -> stops blood moon, and allows to get lands from pte, ghost quarter or field of ruins (which is getting some play nowadays).
The combo aggressive mining+Skyshroud ranger is very nice, by the way.
first of all I didn't play the deck yet, but I think it has potential and I want to try it out as soon as I have enough time for it.
@Oimat: thanks for your opinion, but i don't like to take out the double gates, because double gates means you have more chances to get 10 gates with different names, also for splendid reclamation.
I could cut a Ramunap Excavator, for another forest, You are right with all the ghost quarter and land destruction stuff, so another basic land to fight Blood moon should be in, to be able to cast Nature's claim when you need it. But aside from that you only need G to cast most of your stuff I don't think it is neccessary to play more basic forests, also when blood moon hits the field, you can still use your molten vortex to the fullest. and need to beat down additionally with Ramunap excavator. maybe there is a cheap creature with a good landfall (similar to Rampaging baloths)ability as another win condition, but maybe that may not be neccessary.
You could remove 4 non-green gates in order to support Gatecreeper Vine. Cantrips into a gate, while also providing a small defense.
You could also go with a Azusa, lost but seeking, Courser of Kruphix and Oracle of Mul Daya as a way to cheat lands into play, while also providing a body. Anyway, I think this last shell would not benefit from the gates.
The main problem for a Maze's end deck is that there is only one card in the whole magic (Maze's End) that really cares about gates. The only other one that is interesting is Gatecreeper Vine. So doing a *****ty manabase for 2 cards only seems hard :\
The main problem for a Maze's end deck is that there is only one card in the whole magic (Maze's End) that really cares about gates. The only other one that is interesting is Gatecreeper Vine. So doing a *****ty manabase for 2 cards only seems hard :\
You could still have crackling perimeter.
Furthermore, I wanted to go a second route with molten Vortex to not be only dependant on the maze's end win.
Also, the thing is, my approach is to play a combo win with maze's end, splendid reclamation with amulet of vigor should get a win possibly. I'm not saying that this will get a deck to beat or a tier x deck, but it can win games and it could be fun and semi-competitive.
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"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
In that case, wouldn't it be better to go a dredge-like approach, trying to put all your lands into your grave before reclamating in a splendid fashion, instead of a ramping one ?
Well if you want so, you are going on a dredge like version with Life from the Loam and Aggressive Mining, just not in a normal dredge like shell. The thing is that I personally want to use some other cards to get away from netdecking or all the tier x decks. So that's why I use Aggressive Mining or similar cards over dredge.
I found a good card which would be a nice addition: Drownyard Temple. It creates massive card advantage. comes into play at EoT of the opponent. It ignores the Aggressive Mining drawback and you can stay on 4 lands(neccessary for Splendid Reclamation and draw 3 cards per turn. You can make plays like EoT of the opponent: tap Drownyard Temple for 1 sac it to Aggressive mining, draw 2 cards, pay 2 more mana and return temple to play, start your turn with +1 untapped land.
Also for sideboard tech, your opponent might be bringing in grave hate, you could add more Molten Vortex and maybe also Trade Routes, and ignore your grave completely.
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Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
Hello all, I was taking a dive deep into the forums looking for something else, when I saw this had some recent posts. Here's my two cents on the possibilities of Maze's End:
First off, I think the turbo fog idea is not the best choice. People will have other win cons other than creatures/damage so you'll just auto lose those games. Plus, Maze's End is such a slow wincon, it needs a lot of help besides just 1 land drop per turn. Even if you hit a guildgate every turn, your soonest win would be turn 10. All of the other modern decks are laughing at that.
Secondly: the whole "jam 2 of each gate and 4 maze's end and 4 Amulet of Vigors" idea is a trap. Without Amulet, you will always be constantly a land drop behind your opponent, and if you're on the draw, that's a auto loss. Plus the soonest you could play Amulet is turn 2 if you had it in the opener.
I think their are two viable options:
1) prison based: Like I made a very long post about (including some bad decklists). Also, Saffron Olive had a series with a Maze's End deck focusing on Enchantments. I believe he went 2-2 against competitive decks. I don't know his exact list, but it was GW based. This seems like a good start.
2) The second option is one I actually built and tested online once I saw Splendid Reclamation. It was a Abzan shell (RU cards in the SB only) with self milling cards (Drown in Filth was great). The main win con was to mill a lot of your deck. Scapeshift away all lands that are in play to go get Maze's end and as many gates as possible. Then next turn Splendid Reclamation the rest of the lands back into play and activate Maze for the win. (Of course, you go the other order: Reclaim, then scapeshift). It had some value (E-Witness, Courser of Cruphix, Crucible or Worlds), protection (Ensnaring bridge, Path to exile, abrupt decay from the SB), Stinkweed imp (for blocking and dredging), disruption (thoughtseize and IoK) and a secondary wincon with 1 Worm Harvest and a couple of Knight of the Reliquary. (Alternate wincon being the Crackling perimeter in the SB). I got rid of the deck list, but it had about 26-27 lands, 1 of each gate and only 1 maze(this set off the usual tempo loss), and a lot of fetches to make the most of Reclamation. I used Commune with the Gods to self mill and find Knight of the Reliquary. Satyr Wayfinder can also be a good roadblock in the early game to fill of the GY and hit land drops.
The problem with this approach, is we lose to GY hate in games 2 and 3. There was Hand disruption and Abrupt Decay for those, but still it was an issue.
Do I think it was competitve? No.
But did it win some matches. Oh yes. A lot more than I thought it would.
The RG Aggressive mining approach is something I hadn't though of. It looks really cool actually. I like a lot of the synergies with Mining + creatures to make land drops. It does seem like there's something there. Again, I would not include Amulet of vigor and only run 10 gates and 1 maze. This way you increase your speed and open up more slots in the main deck (probably wouldn't need Spirit Guides either).
@Ruferd
Thanks for the feedback. I am not sure if the only 1 of each gate and maze's end route is a better way to go, but it would open up space for other things.
Maybe add some Molten Vortex main or something. I really need to build the deck and test it out
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"Master they threatened to darken the sky with their arrows!"
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
Yeah, but it's really more "Disney Evil" than practical. It's like being a bond villain and giving a monologue rather then just shooting them.
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
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cause with modern, the main card that unlocks it would be Amulet of Vigor to get past the CiPT defect. and also might help with mana ramp.
but along with that, it also gives cards like:
Rites of Flourishing
Oracle of Mul Daya
Explore
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Summer Bloom
with all that, thats like 8 additional lands a turn.
but with cards like sowing salt
so its very fragile.
as an alt win con theres always the Seismic Assault + Life from the Loam
so im asking this here, cause im not exactly the best deck builder out there, unless its rougeish stuff, but then that stuff usually doesnt work either.
but do any of you think it could be viable in modern?
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I could see it working but could also see people saying just play the amulet of vigor karoo land deck instead as its more explosive. you'd have to play blue because, more importantly than land destruction is blood moon in the format. Blue would also get you trinket mage to fetch the amulet. instead of fog effects though I would be playing stuff like wall of blossoms and wall of roots
You'd also want cards like skyshroud ranger and sakura-tribe scout and scapeshift
I was also think about cards like privileged position to help protect against land destruction and maybe even a chromatic lantern to prevent against blood moon effects.
Was also thinking about crucible of worlds + ghost quarter for some land destruction of my own that could reoccur.
But I'll probably throw a rough list together later on and post on here
Thanks
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heres what i got so far.
Fog Effects:
Darkness
Fog
Holy Day
i figured it would be best to stay low for the casting costs
Ramp(creatures):
Primeval Titan
Oracle of Mul Daya
Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Ramp(Spells):
Explore
Urban Evolution
Summer Bloom
Rites of Flourishing
Card Draw:
Howling Mine
Sphinx's Revalation
Counters:
Chalice of the Void
Mana Leak
Rewind
Spell Snare
Removal:
Abrupt Decay
Ancient Grudge
Path to Exile
Lightning Bolt
Anti-Hate:
Privileged Position
Witchbane Orb
Crucible of Worlds
Mana Fixing:
Chromatic Lantern
Prismatic Omen
Alt Win Cons:
Seismic Assault
Crackling Perimeter
Rude Awakening
White Sun's Zenith
Entreat the Angels
Door to Nothingness
Others:
Life From the Loam
Amulet of Vigor
Lands(besides gates/maze):
Ghost Quarter
so, what would be good, what wouldn't be good?
whats the land base going to be like?
what should the sideboard look like?
creatures 4
4 primeval titans
spells 33
4 amulet of vigor
4 summer bloom
4 fog
4 explore
4 dawn charm
2 path to exile
2 primeval bounty
4 defend the hearth ‘
2 rites of flourshing
2 urban evolution
1 crucible of worlds
land 22
1 orzovh guildgate
1 izzet guildgate
1 boros guildgate
1 grull guildgate
1 azorius gate
1 dimir gate
1 golgari gate
1 rakdos gate
1 selesnya gate
1 simic gate
4 mazes end
1 forest
1 island
3 breeding pools
2 temple garden
1 hallowed
sideboard
2 crackerling permiter
2 siesmic assulalt
2 white sun zenith
2 witch bane orbs
1 batterskull
3 nature claims
2 firespout
1 door to nothingness
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=488514
4 Darkness
4 Ethereal Haze
4 Fog
4 Batwing Brume
4 Dawn Charm
4 Defend the Hearth
4 Pollen Lullaby
4 Think Twice
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
4 Maze's End
I'd originally had Treasure Cruise instead of Think Twice, but it's banned now.
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That'd make 24 lands with 2x each Gate, 4x Maze's End, and the 8 cards mentioned above. Then 4x Amulet of Vigor, 4x Summer Bloom, 4x Azusa, Lost but Seeking. Still 16 slots left.
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We also don't need to run two of each guild gate. We can play crucible of worlds and life of the loam to play around our gates being destroyed. This will open ten more slots for us to have faster and more reliable mana with fetch and dual lands. This will counteract the decks natural weakness which is its slow tempo by having every land come into play tapped. This will speed up the deck without having to rely on a card like amulet of vigor. Plus, we'll have some slots for basic lands so we don't get blown out by blood moon. Other land destruction can be negated by the loams and crucibles. If they have crumble to dust or sowing salt to exile our lands, then we try to win with crackling perimeter.
Scapeshift seems like it could be spicy in our deck too...
Has anyone tried a prison version with only one copy of each guild gate like I described? Does anyone play this at their fnm? Any results or testing that we can share? I'm really interested in hearing people's developments with this deck idea.
EDIT: I have been toying around with this deck idea in my head for a few days. I am thinking of something along the lines of a GW deck that uses fogs, and removal to stay alive, prisons to lock your opponent out, and eventually Knight of the Reliquary, Scapeshift, Crucible of Worlds to continually cycle through your lands and find Maze's End and all the gates. The sideboard would contain enchantment removal for Blood Moon and alternate win conditions if our lands are exiled by Sowing Salt and/or Crumble to Dust. The alternate win cons would be Crackling Perimeter and maybe even a fun-of Door to Nothingness.
I'm still brewing this in my head and maybe I'll try to proxy it and play test it before I invest in it, but I'll keep updating in case someone is actually interested in this thread.
EDIT 2:
I have brainstormed a very rough main deck. I'll post it here and explain why I made each choice that I did. I really do want to hear feedback from anyone reading this, as I am no expert in modern. So I don't know if this deck just totally loses to some of the main archetypes or not. And I am not familiar with the best sideboard cards. But anyways, here goes, the GW Modern Maze's End
2 Maze's End
10 Guildgates
4 Temple Garden
4 Canopy Vista
2 Forest
2 Plains
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Scapeshift
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Life from the Loam
Prison(11):
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Peace of Mind
4 Ethereal Haze
4 Holy Day
Removal(4):
4 Beast Within
Deck Tech:
Main Engine - Like I said, I didn't just want to go the turbo fog rout with like 24 fog effects and just sit there for 10 turns and win. We lose to a lot of things like burn, counter spells. We just don't interact with our opponents at all and have a super slow kill. Only the fastest/best combos can worry about not affecting their opponents. So I was looking for other engines to quickly get lands onto the battlefield and I eventually thought of Knight of the Reliquary. Just by tapping him and not three other mana, we can get another gate on the field. Plus Scapeshift can do the same thing but a lot more at one time. And since we are destroying so many lands with our search effects, we need a way to recycle them, so here comes Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds. Loam also plays another important role explained later on. This is a much faster engine than just fogging and activating Maze's End once a turn. With this engine, We can Scapeshift about three or four gates into play, activate Knight on the opponent's turn, activate Knight on our turn and then activate Maze. All in the span of two turns, we got six-ish gates.
Manabase - obviously we need Maze's End and 1 of each gate, so there is not much room for other lands. With reliance on Knight, we need a lot Plains and Forests, so I just figured we should only be using those, so that everything could be used by the Knight. We only need 2 Maze's End and 1 of each guildgate since any main deck land destruction is negated by the Loams and Crucibles. We just have to make sure the first land that we get with the Knight is actually Maze's End, before the Knight is killed.
Prison - Ghostly Prison and Ensnaring Bridge are obvious against aggro and stopping creatures. It also works against Twin too! And against burn or other non-creature damage, we have Peace of Mind to gain life. I listed this under the Prison section because prior to combat, we can ditch our hand to gain a bunch of life which makes the Ensnaring Bridges better. The Loams will help recover three lands which we can just ditch again for a ton of life and improve our Bridge.
Fogs - I threw in 8 of the cheapest, best fogs for combat damage, but these might be flexible. If the Prison aspect of the deck is strong enough, I can see this number reducing down to 6. Also, the white pact Intervention Pact is worth a look.
Removal - Beast Within is so versatile. Plus hopefully a 3/3 will be blocked by a bridge or cancelled out by the Peace o fMind + Loam life gain.
That's about it. Things that could be put in after I figure out what is good with playtesting: Intervention Pact, Path to Exile, Dismember, Sphere of Safety, Oblivion Ring.
Sideboard cards will include Leyline of Sanctity, Wear/Tear, Crackling Perimeter, Kor Firewalker, Sanctimony, Choke. Not sure what else to include. I know that technically, I will have access to all five colors of mana, so the tool box is wide open (I was even thinking of something like Genju of the Realm), but I want to try and stick to GW as much as possible for consistency.
EDIT 3: A little bit more thinking about it and now I am thinking that the fogs are unnecessary. I know that there is a UW Enduring Ideal Deck that uses prisons to shut down the opponent then casts Enduring Ideal to go find Phyrexian Unlife and Form of the Dragon to stay alive indefinitely and win the game. I feel like a GW prison deck should work the same way, but instead of trying to land Enduring Ideal late in the game (which is vulnerable to counters and costs 7 mana) just try to Scapeshift and Knight of the Reliquary your way to a faster win. So we could take out those 8 fogs and put in more prison style effects.
EDIT 4: Here is my rough idea on how to build a prison style deck which locks out the opponent, and then tries to win via Maze's End. I tried to copy the core prison aspect of this build from the thread on the WU Enduring Ideal deck, although I couldn't include as much since my main engine include 13 cards.
2 Maze's End
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Rakdos guildgate
1 Gruul Guildgate
1 Selesnya Guildgate
1 Orzhov Guildgate
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Golgari Guildgate
1 Boros Guildgate
1 Simic Guildgate
3 Plains
2 Forest
4 Canopy Vista
Main Engine(13):
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Scapeshift
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Life from the Loam
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Peace of Mind
4 Runed Halo
2 Sphere of Safety
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Porphyry Nodes
I don't know what to do for the sideboard, but we have to include alternate win cons like Crackling Perimeter, Seismic Assault, Door to Nothingness or Genju of the Realm. We also need to defend against Blood Moon so we need Krosan Grip, Wear // Tear, Beast Within or other disenchants. I'm not sure if defending against land destruction is necessary due to the Loams and Crucibles, so we might not need Leyline of Sanctity, Privileged Position, Witchbane Orb etc. And then we can have some hate cards like Kor Firewalker, Choke, Sanctimony. Again, I know that we will have access to all 5 colors technically, but I want to rely just on W and G for consistency.
Instant
4 x Fog
4 x Holy Day
4 x Dawn Charm
4 x Batwing Brume
Land
1 x Boros Guildgate
2 x Azorius Guildgate
2 x Selesnya Guildgate
1 x Golgari Guildgate
1 x Gruul Guildgate
2 x Plains
4 x Maze's End
3 x Forest
1 x Island
2 x Simic Guildgate
2 x Izzet Guildgate
1 x Orzhov Guildgate
1 x Dimir Guildgate
1 x Rakdos Guildgate
Planeswalker
1 x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Legend
3 x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Creature
1 x Thing in the Ice
4 x Sakura-Tribe Scout
Artifact
4 x Amulet of Vigor
Sorcery
4 x Explore
3 x Ancient Stirrings
Sideboard
1 x Pulse of Murasa
2 x Supreme Verdict
2 x Abrupt Decay
2 x Negate
1 x Crackling Perimeter
2 x Ashes of the Abhorrent
1 x Engineered Explosives
2 x Kor Firewalker
2 x Tireless Tracker
WRBurnRW
URGifts StormRU
RGoblinsR
I would play wirh amulet of vigor, Aggressive Mining and splendid reclamation to accelerate the whole process. for additional backup Crucible of worlds and Ramunap Excavator. Sakura-tribe Scout and Skyshroud ranger to undo the disadvantage of Aggressive Mining. Also Life from the Loam needs a spot in here, combined with Aggressive mining it is very good.
For some control molten vortex seems very nice, like Lands players in legacy, controling the board with it and you get your lands back afterwards to win. It is better affordable, because of the R, but it would be more mana intensive than Seismic assault.
Maybe a list would look like this:
3 Splendid reclamation
4 Sakura-Tribe scout
4 Life from the Loam
2 Molten Vortex
2 Skyshroud Ranger
4 Ramunap Excavator
4 Amulet of vigor
4 Nature's Claim
4 Simian Spirit guide
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Azorius Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
2 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
4 Maze's end
So basically I have 2 flex slots atm, but even if the deck is mainly RG we have 5 color lands so basically you could add in anything, also for the sideboard. but maybe you want to have a basic forest to kill blood moon and be able to cast Sakura-Tribe scout and Life from the loam or nature's claim and splendid reclamation when blood moon hits the field.
4 Nature's claim main are for the situation when you can't play lands and need to destroy your own Aggressive mining and also gain 4 life
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
I would love to get a tournament report on this list.
I plan to play my list this Friday for fnm and post a report Friday night after I get home.
WRBurnRW
URGifts StormRU
RGoblinsR
By the way, the fog version of this deck will never work against real-Tron, jund, burn nor storm.
Tron-jund : they can wait and ultimate their planeswalker (lili to destroy your lands, karn to reset the game
Burn : just topdecking lava spikes will do
Storm : need a picture ?
As such, Heskatet's list seems the closest one to something possible.
A tweak I'd do still : remove the doubles of gates and add some basic forests (5-6) -> stops blood moon, and allows to get lands from pte, ghost quarter or field of ruins (which is getting some play nowadays).
The combo aggressive mining+Skyshroud ranger is very nice, by the way.
first of all I didn't play the deck yet, but I think it has potential and I want to try it out as soon as I have enough time for it.
@Oimat: thanks for your opinion, but i don't like to take out the double gates, because double gates means you have more chances to get 10 gates with different names, also for splendid reclamation.
I could cut a Ramunap Excavator, for another forest, You are right with all the ghost quarter and land destruction stuff, so another basic land to fight Blood moon should be in, to be able to cast Nature's claim when you need it. But aside from that you only need G to cast most of your stuff I don't think it is neccessary to play more basic forests, also when blood moon hits the field, you can still use your molten vortex to the fullest. and need to beat down additionally with Ramunap excavator. maybe there is a cheap creature with a good landfall (similar to Rampaging baloths)ability as another win condition, but maybe that may not be neccessary.
Yeah Aggressive Mining is really cool with Skyshroud ranger and Sakura-Tribe Scout (<--instant land drop btw)
what do you think of the Simian Spirit guide? I thought of playing Amulet of Vigor with it before the land drop, to have the gates enter untapped, is it worth it, or should it be replaced with something else?
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
You could also go with a Azusa, lost but seeking, Courser of Kruphix and Oracle of Mul Daya as a way to cheat lands into play, while also providing a body. Anyway, I think this last shell would not benefit from the gates.
The main problem for a Maze's end deck is that there is only one card in the whole magic (Maze's End) that really cares about gates. The only other one that is interesting is Gatecreeper Vine. So doing a *****ty manabase for 2 cards only seems hard :\
You could still have crackling perimeter.
Furthermore, I wanted to go a second route with molten Vortex to not be only dependant on the maze's end win.
Also, the thing is, my approach is to play a combo win with maze's end, splendid reclamation with amulet of vigor should get a win possibly. I'm not saying that this will get a deck to beat or a tier x deck, but it can win games and it could be fun and semi-competitive.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
If you aim big, aim bigger
I found a good card which would be a nice addition: Drownyard Temple. It creates massive card advantage. comes into play at EoT of the opponent. It ignores the Aggressive Mining drawback and you can stay on 4 lands(neccessary for Splendid Reclamation and draw 3 cards per turn. You can make plays like EoT of the opponent: tap Drownyard Temple for 1 sac it to Aggressive mining, draw 2 cards, pay 2 more mana and return temple to play, start your turn with +1 untapped land.
Also for sideboard tech, your opponent might be bringing in grave hate, you could add more Molten Vortex and maybe also Trade Routes, and ignore your grave completely.
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy
First off, I think the turbo fog idea is not the best choice. People will have other win cons other than creatures/damage so you'll just auto lose those games. Plus, Maze's End is such a slow wincon, it needs a lot of help besides just 1 land drop per turn. Even if you hit a guildgate every turn, your soonest win would be turn 10. All of the other modern decks are laughing at that.
Secondly: the whole "jam 2 of each gate and 4 maze's end and 4 Amulet of Vigors" idea is a trap. Without Amulet, you will always be constantly a land drop behind your opponent, and if you're on the draw, that's a auto loss. Plus the soonest you could play Amulet is turn 2 if you had it in the opener.
I think their are two viable options:
1) prison based: Like I made a very long post about (including some bad decklists). Also, Saffron Olive had a series with a Maze's End deck focusing on Enchantments. I believe he went 2-2 against competitive decks. I don't know his exact list, but it was GW based. This seems like a good start.
2) The second option is one I actually built and tested online once I saw Splendid Reclamation. It was a Abzan shell (RU cards in the SB only) with self milling cards (Drown in Filth was great). The main win con was to mill a lot of your deck. Scapeshift away all lands that are in play to go get Maze's end and as many gates as possible. Then next turn Splendid Reclamation the rest of the lands back into play and activate Maze for the win. (Of course, you go the other order: Reclaim, then scapeshift). It had some value (E-Witness, Courser of Cruphix, Crucible or Worlds), protection (Ensnaring bridge, Path to exile, abrupt decay from the SB), Stinkweed imp (for blocking and dredging), disruption (thoughtseize and IoK) and a secondary wincon with 1 Worm Harvest and a couple of Knight of the Reliquary. (Alternate wincon being the Crackling perimeter in the SB). I got rid of the deck list, but it had about 26-27 lands, 1 of each gate and only 1 maze(this set off the usual tempo loss), and a lot of fetches to make the most of Reclamation. I used Commune with the Gods to self mill and find Knight of the Reliquary. Satyr Wayfinder can also be a good roadblock in the early game to fill of the GY and hit land drops.
The problem with this approach, is we lose to GY hate in games 2 and 3. There was Hand disruption and Abrupt Decay for those, but still it was an issue.
Do I think it was competitve? No.
But did it win some matches. Oh yes. A lot more than I thought it would.
The RG Aggressive mining approach is something I hadn't though of. It looks really cool actually. I like a lot of the synergies with Mining + creatures to make land drops. It does seem like there's something there. Again, I would not include Amulet of vigor and only run 10 gates and 1 maze. This way you increase your speed and open up more slots in the main deck (probably wouldn't need Spirit Guides either).
Thanks for the feedback. I am not sure if the only 1 of each gate and maze's end route is a better way to go, but it would open up space for other things.
Maybe add some Molten Vortex main or something. I really need to build the deck and test it out
"Well, then we will at least fight in the shadow"
"There is no glory to be gained in the kingdom of the dead!"
Post by Narah about unbanning Mind Twist in legacy and that this would be evil:
If you want to play on MTGO add me I'm HeskatetAS, playing Modern and Legacy