I do like the black touch. I have played many versions of this and one of my favorite was WB. With Darkness, sudden spoiling, and batwings. In addition to Dawn charm That version also played 4 wraths, 4 damnations (tempo fogs)
Spoiling also gets around the problem of them having that turn where they try to out counter your fogs.
i like black in my list but 8 wraths imo is way too many. i run 2 and see them plenty. batwing lost its favor with me with the banning of twin. it was great to have them go off and brume for the win. at this point, im wanting to try elocutors + greaves. the combo mentioned above sounds interesting but thats a combo thats hard to pull off. we have to let them take us past 0 which is the opposite of what turbo FOG tries to do. then we have to be able to get both to stick and theres plenty of enchantment hate right now. g1 might take a few but g2 is a little more difficult. i realize my plan is just as fragile g2 but i usually pack gideon, champion of justice as a wincon g2. pls test that lil combo and let me know how it works out. im still feeling like the best win con is the slavee lock but i dont like winning that way. haha wasnt there some card that recently came out that you sace and it gives you 2 of each color mana? we could combo that with door to nothingness if such a card was printed
I always want between 6 and 8 wrath effects in turbo fog. Reason being is wraths act as a tempo fog. When it's just 1 creature swinging you can sometimes just take the hit. But if you don't clear the board every so often you literally must hold up your wall of fog because 1 single attack and it's game over. Wraths act as a turn or 2 of fogs in one card. Using them allows you to build your mass of fog cards back up. Preventing you from getting to a point where you can be countered out.
i usually draw so many fogs and see my wraths pkenty often enough that i out do counter heavy decks and nvr have a problem with mass amoubts of fogs. i literally carry a 7 card hand from about turn 4 on
Then we seem to be having the same kind of luck. To be honest I've never encountered an issue like the others have described in this forum about counter decks countering all their fogs and attacking for the kill. I always just assumed it was because I was exhausting there counters with my wraths though. Lol
Then we seem to be having the same kind of luck. To be honest I've never encountered an issue like the others have described in this forum about counter decks countering all their fogs and attacking for the kill. I always just assumed it was because I was exhausting there counters with my wraths though. Lol
i play verdict so they dont get to counter it. i usually am tapped out bt the end of every one of tgeir turns unless its very late game. and if i tap out for wrath and they counter, that could be game over. so i dont let my wraths be counterable
Batwing is a fine smog if you plan on winning with damage in some way. Most often I'll win by decking, but Emmy makes that plan hard. You can always take a secondary damage win con and push in a copy or two.
Very rarely do they actually walk into enough batwings to win you the game. However it is VERY funny to batwing them over and over with elixir's over a long game where they are literally scared to attack with more than 1 or 2 guys. I had a friend sitting on 1 life and he was too scared to attack with anything. SMOG AT ITS PEAK! LOL
You really want Sudden spoiling since it is basically uncounterable. Dawn charm is always going to be the best smog. Then holy day or darkness fills the rest of the smogs. 1 elixir of immortality is necessary to ensure you don't deck.
I like 1 or 2 Surgical Extraction in Turbo Smog to take out any antidecking mechanics. (Only answer to Emmy decks)
Also like playing a one of Syphon Life to pitch any excess lands for a bit of a faster win con in turbo smog. That card is no good if you draw it early though.
Batwing is a fine smog if you plan on winning with damage in some way. Most often I'll win by decking, but Emmy makes that plan hard. You can always take a secondary damage win con and push in a copy or two.
Very rarely do they actually walk into enough batwings to win you the game. However it is VERY funny to batwing them over and over with elixir's over a long game where they are literally scared to attack with more than 1 or 2 guys. I had a friend sitting on 1 life and he was too scared to attack with anything. SMOG AT ITS PEAK! LOL
You really want Sudden spoiling since it is basically uncounterable. Dawn charm is always going to be the best smog. Then holy day or darkness fills the rest of the smogs. 1 elixir of immortality is necessary to ensure you don't deck.
I like 1 or 2 Surgical Extraction in Turbo Smog to take out any antidecking mechanics. (Only answer to Emmy decks)
Also like playing a one of Syphon Life to pitch any excess lands for a bit of a faster win con in turbo smog. That card is no good if you draw it early though.
if youre gonna run siphon life, I would add in a few copies of dakmor Salvage and maybe a copy or two of Raven's crime and at that point, id go b/w, change the mana base, and my only blue card would be verdict. and change my sb up
I don't play blue in the Black White version. (Aka Turbo Smog)
Ravens crime is next to no use in a deck with mines and temple bells. You'll never get the critical spells out of their hand. Syphon Life acts as a win con, but takes several turns to set up and you have to be careful not to over extend your Mana in case they have counters of some sort. I usually only throw it out after a sweeper to make sure they can't counter a few smogs and then swing in for game. So it's situational to say the least.
I'm liking the new Ghost Qarters. You don't lose Mana resources and gives you an out against Tron. Which isn't a bad matchup like most decks have against the Mana Titan. So I say it's better against Scapeshift. Since you want a few extractions for Emmy, they take splash damage against you.
true. sry. i wasnt thinking when i posted that. i work over 80 hrs a week every week and only get about 4 hous a night. i have been play turbosmog, which ive been calling it that for about 6 yrs now, for better part of 10 yrs. as far as tron goes, ive nvr had a good mu against any version of it. karn hurts. now i have played against etron but thats primarilly bc with me work so many hours, i spend the little time i have with my 2 boys and fiance.
Good point on Karn. I find that Ugin is usually the scoop card for most other decks. So I was more talking about that PW in Tron. Karn can hurt as it takes away our resources. Haven't found a good out against it yet. Possibly some Unmaking in place of extractions in a meta with few graveyard Emmy decks? Having 3 of them gives you a pretty good chance to destroy the first Karn played then after elixir activations you can just wait for any PW threat and strike it.
In the Tron matchup it's important to not throw out all your turbo cards at once. OStone can come down and cripple you quickly. Think of the turbo effects as creatures against a deck with lots of sweepers.
Good point on Karn. I find that Ugin is usually the scoop card for most other decks. So I was more talking about that PW in Tron. Karn can hurt as it takes away our resources. Haven't found a good out against it yet. Possibly some Unmaking in place of extractions in a meta with few graveyard Emmy decks? Having 3 of them gives you a pretty good chance to destroy the first Karn played then after elixir activations you can just wait for any PW threat and strike it.
In the Tron matchup it's important to not throw out all your turbo cards at once. OStone can come down and cripple you quickly. Think of the turbo effects as creatures against a deck with lots of sweepers.
Oh I know but my local store here has a guy who plays mono blue and the issue is even playing any turbo pieces gets him to where he can buy back whatever counterspell it is and slowly he locks me out as he gets mana on the field. I've had a hard time against Ron but as far as control and burn usually I'm pretty good against them. I'm wanting to figure a way to battle Tron better. Maybe I should add ghost quarters in the sideboard along with Stony silence but for now my sideboard runs counter spells and o-ring with d sphere
I like the new quarters and a few extractions. But that doesn't stop them entirely. The game still goes long and they still make lots of Mana. Just in a more fair way. I do apologise for forgetting about utron. That deck has long been gone out of my meta. So much in fact that we don't plan on a single player showing up with it. The extraction plan is much more suited for Scapeshift and I don't see turbo smog really doing well against utron at all. Nothing I can think of shores up that matchup...
thats why i like the idea of running a i win card against them like 2nd sun. but even making it to 7 mana and have 2 turns to cast them is difficult. i wish we had a better wincon sadly. ive tried a lot of things. my current sb off the top of my head against tron is like 2 negates, 1 counter that bounces one of our lands, 2 o-rings, 1 d sphere, and, if I remember right, 2 pithing needles.
all of them can deal with O-stone and their walkers. I also thought mono blue Tron was dead but I have three players who play Tron. One is u/w, one is utron, and the other is r/g tron.
does anyone have a list running Fevered Visions ? ive wanted to do something with it and Ebony Owl Netsuke but netsuke my be too hard to make happen. but having visions plus another card with a similar effect may work out rly well. thinking about visions + Spiteful Visions or Keranos, God of Storms
It's been funny playing with Axis of Mortality and Phyrexian Unlife the last sunday. Changing lifes along with Underworld Dreams. You don't need exactly to be 0 lifes to win the game, but it helps to resist some matches.
i find against control we play like burn. stockpile fogs until they rly want to fight over dmg because we have more fogs than they do counters. my only issue is if they counter mines etc. but ive had very few ppl do that. i have counters in board for tron mu's. now tron is mostly etron now so idk if im as worried but i also havnt rly played much in the last yr or 2
Yep, blue is pretty much for instant cast howling mines. That and some dispell main is good for almost every matchup.
Nonblue versions play temple bell instead of Kruphix. Which isn't that bad a comparison. The instant cast aspects is big, but bell has it's advantages.
I've been toying with a white, black, green version for a little while now that uses explore and Steve to smooth out the manabase, "counters" burn in the board with heroes' reunion, and has another form of CA in atlas. Avoid Fate is brutal out of the board when non blue decks try to take away your engine.
i play temple bell and i orefer it to dictate. getting a 1 card advatage over them by flashing it in isnt worth it to me. id rather use bell to force them to draw when i want them to. this can help by making them draw when they cant play whatever they draw. like you said... its a preference and has its advantages and disadvantages. i also like keeping off the double blue but i never have color issues with my deck. i use to run kruphix as a 2 of and font as a 2 of. im gonna try a patriot version here soon. just have to buy a few lands and spiteful visions and keranos, god of storms
I don't think I would run Spiteful Visions. A lot of the time you'll take a hit here or there after wraths and such to hold on to another fog or take some hits early from guides and such. Adding visions just pretty much does the rest of the work for them. I can see a turbo smog version running 2 Underworld Dreams as the finisher,
Has anyone thought about running Peace of Mind to get out of burn or combo range? I'd imagine just 1 main is all that's needed since it's not spectacular in some matches, and bad early. Thinking about gaining life off of all those extra lands.
I don't think I would run Spiteful Visions. A lot of the time you'll take a hit here or there after wraths and such to hold on to another fog or take some hits early from guides and such. Adding visions just pretty much does the rest of the work for them. I can see a turbo smog version running 2 Underworld Dreams as the finisher,
Has anyone thought about running Peace of Mind to get out of burn or combo range? I'd imagine just 1 main is all that's needed since it's not spectacular in some matches, and bad early. Thinking about gaining life off of all those extra lands.
i think it was mentioned before but could have been another thread. ive run spiteful before with no issue. everyone sees it as a bad card but since they draw first off all our turbo piece outside of a flashed in kruphix, they are behind on life 1st. plus with elixir of immortality gaining back 5, ive never had an issue using it.
Interesting. Okay I stand corrected then. Just feels bad at first glance. I've never considered it honestly.
Perhaps run it with peace as a way to gain a little life. Effectively paying 1 to gain 2 since a you'll draw a good portion of lands throughout the course of the game.
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Spoiling also gets around the problem of them having that turn where they try to out counter your fogs.
i play verdict so they dont get to counter it. i usually am tapped out bt the end of every one of tgeir turns unless its very late game. and if i tap out for wrath and they counter, that could be game over. so i dont let my wraths be counterable
Very rarely do they actually walk into enough batwings to win you the game. However it is VERY funny to batwing them over and over with elixir's over a long game where they are literally scared to attack with more than 1 or 2 guys. I had a friend sitting on 1 life and he was too scared to attack with anything. SMOG AT ITS PEAK! LOL
You really want Sudden spoiling since it is basically uncounterable. Dawn charm is always going to be the best smog. Then holy day or darkness fills the rest of the smogs. 1 elixir of immortality is necessary to ensure you don't deck.
I like 1 or 2 Surgical Extraction in Turbo Smog to take out any antidecking mechanics. (Only answer to Emmy decks)
Also like playing a one of Syphon Life to pitch any excess lands for a bit of a faster win con in turbo smog. That card is no good if you draw it early though.
if youre gonna run siphon life, I would add in a few copies of dakmor Salvage and maybe a copy or two of Raven's crime and at that point, id go b/w, change the mana base, and my only blue card would be verdict. and change my sb up
Ravens crime is next to no use in a deck with mines and temple bells. You'll never get the critical spells out of their hand. Syphon Life acts as a win con, but takes several turns to set up and you have to be careful not to over extend your Mana in case they have counters of some sort. I usually only throw it out after a sweeper to make sure they can't counter a few smogs and then swing in for game. So it's situational to say the least.
I'm liking the new Ghost Qarters. You don't lose Mana resources and gives you an out against Tron. Which isn't a bad matchup like most decks have against the Mana Titan. So I say it's better against Scapeshift. Since you want a few extractions for Emmy, they take splash damage against you.
In the Tron matchup it's important to not throw out all your turbo cards at once. OStone can come down and cripple you quickly. Think of the turbo effects as creatures against a deck with lots of sweepers.
Oh I know but my local store here has a guy who plays mono blue and the issue is even playing any turbo pieces gets him to where he can buy back whatever counterspell it is and slowly he locks me out as he gets mana on the field. I've had a hard time against Ron but as far as control and burn usually I'm pretty good against them. I'm wanting to figure a way to battle Tron better. Maybe I should add ghost quarters in the sideboard along with Stony silence but for now my sideboard runs counter spells and o-ring with d sphere
all of them can deal with O-stone and their walkers. I also thought mono blue Tron was dead but I have three players who play Tron. One is u/w, one is utron, and the other is r/g tron.
Nonblue versions play temple bell instead of Kruphix. Which isn't that bad a comparison. The instant cast aspects is big, but bell has it's advantages.
I've been toying with a white, black, green version for a little while now that uses explore and Steve to smooth out the manabase, "counters" burn in the board with heroes' reunion, and has another form of CA in atlas. Avoid Fate is brutal out of the board when non blue decks try to take away your engine.
Has anyone thought about running Peace of Mind to get out of burn or combo range? I'd imagine just 1 main is all that's needed since it's not spectacular in some matches, and bad early. Thinking about gaining life off of all those extra lands.
i think it was mentioned before but could have been another thread. ive run spiteful before with no issue. everyone sees it as a bad card but since they draw first off all our turbo piece outside of a flashed in kruphix, they are behind on life 1st. plus with elixir of immortality gaining back 5, ive never had an issue using it.
Perhaps run it with peace as a way to gain a little life. Effectively paying 1 to gain 2 since a you'll draw a good portion of lands throughout the course of the game.