Does this deck exist? I'd like to brew up something. Legacy Miracles is just like every other legacy deck... 1-2 copies of your singleton wincon and you only play it when you can stick it and ride it to victory. How about something fun, competitive, and interactive in the modern format?
I wish there was a way to play Modern Miracles, but I think Alleyway Jack is pretty much right on. While I think you might be able to get away with the sub-par cantrips and deck manipulation that currently exist in Modern, losing a way to put the Miracle card that's in your hand back on top of your library (Brainstorm), makes it very difficult to believe you could make a competitive Miracle focused deck. Maybe if the they legalize Top, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
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I'm sure you can make something, with all the Scrying available there are definitely ways, but you still need those cantrips as all the others have said. Not sure how good scrying will make it. It might be too clunky.
There's just not enough top of your library manipulation to pull it off in Modern. Jace, Brainstorm and Top are critical to the deck.
There is actually quite a lot of library manipulation - I play Modern Miracles.
However... the cards you mentioned are 1000 times better. Which is why it's not a "good" deck.
It is fun however
Crystal Ball and Mystic Speculation help A LOT. I also use Noxious Revival and Ideas Unbound. I play it with counterbalance.
Like I said though ... it's not really a good deck because it's missing key cards. It's fun though for like FNM.
The deck really needs Sensei's Divining Top. Jace and Brainstorm are good, but Top is what really puts the deck together because in addition to helping out your Miracle cards, it also combos very nicely with Counterbalance. While CounterTop probably isn't as powerful of a combo in Modern (decks rely a bit less on 1-drops than in Legacy), it's still a very powerful combination that gives Miracles additional reach beyond just, well, hitting their Miracle cards. Crystal Ball and Mystic Speculation can't really replace Top, because part of what's so powerful about Top isn't the library reordering, but its ability to just throw itself on top of the library and counter all 1-drops until your next turn.
Top also makes you miracle at instant speed and protects itself against Decay
Miracles wasn't a thing in Standard when Ponder (and to lesser extent: Looting and Noxious Revival) was legal so I doubt there's a way to make it viable in Modern.
Mabye a UWR version with Isochron Scepter? It sure as hell beats Crystal Ball and other suboptimal alternatives. But then on the other hand, a deck can only play 4 copies of Serum Visions and you might have something more interesting to imprint most of the time anyway.
EDIT: And of course you can't imprint Visions anyway. DUH!
yeah the deck manipulation in modern is really lacking even if we just had scroll rack I would try my damnedest to make it work I guess you can treat it like standard and play a million miracles... also for something cute you could liliana vess -2 and stack them?
The problem is miracle cards stuck in hand. Their is enough mediocre scry abilities to manipulate the top of the library, but it's when you have a miracle card in hand, that's a serious problem. At least if Modern had sdtop, even without Jace and brainstorm, it might be manageable, and thats a big if lol.
Miracles only works in Legacy because the miracles in it are not actual miracles. Once you lose the efficient manipulation and ability to put dead miracles back on top of your deck, you'll have a deck that is based on an embarrassing amount of luck.
Little late to the convo, but a forum search confirms that this is the most recent discussion on the topic, so yeah, dodging the necro warning here..
Faithless Looting to filter through clunky miracles stuck in hand and set up Noxious Revival.
Haven't tried it though, just read about it elsewhere.
I'm building a proxy version to test.
Something important that hasn't been mentioned here: Remand, Vendilion Clique, Telling Time, and Desolate Lighthouse all allow for casting miracles on opponent's turn. This enables a more draw-go control style of play that sets up a lot more opportunities to rip a miracle without overloading the deck with them.
Here's the list I'm going to try. (And yes I'm aware that it's not optimized for the meta and folds to a resolved Blood Moon and so on.. It's just an attempt to see if I can get it running smoothly before venturing an attempt to streamline it for fnm play.)
The problem with this deck is always that you can't put Miracles back if you draw them at an inopportune time. Whether that means you opening hand some or draw something like Terminus with no creatures in play, the deck just isn't consistent enough. I think you really need either Top or Brainstorm to get this deck to work.
As for the deck, I definitely think Temporal Mastery is bad. The best you're going to do is Explore, since your creatures are weak and you're not really putting any kill pressure. Your win condition is almost exclusively the Entreat, so without it in play, Temporal Mastery does little to nothing.
The problem with this deck is always that you can't put Miracles back if you draw them at an inopportune time. Whether that means you opening hand some or draw something like Terminus with no creatures in play, the deck just isn't consistent enough. I think you really need either Top or Brainstorm to get this deck to work.
As for the deck, I definitely think Temporal Mastery is bad. The best you're going to do is Explore, since your creatures are weak and you're not really putting any kill pressure. Your win condition is almost exclusively the Entreat, so without it in play, Temporal Mastery does little to nothing.
Agreed about the limitations of the deck. Drawing the wrong card at inopportune times is just part of the game I guess.
Sorta disagree about Mastery though. Sure it's best if you are looking to ult a PW or get in a second combat phase for lethal, but I still think it does enough here. At worst an Explore is still decent to me. It's function as a second chance to rip that timely Entreat, Terminus, or Bonfire is exactly what this deck wants. Think of it like a cantrip that enables miracles or perhaps digging/thinning like manamorphose. I don't think it needs to be abused to be good here. It may very well become the flex slot of the deck though.
Temporal Mastery is Explore in the worst case of the best case, which is worst case of Miracling it. The best case always wins you the game. The worst case is when you draw it opening hand and it does nothing. It's best to think of the average case. If you consider Explore to be the average case, Explore isn't exactly that great. Don't get me wrong, it's not awful, but it's also not something this deck needs. You're never going to ult a Planeswalker on the extra turn since you play none, and given your only creatures are basically Clique and Sage, both which have 1 toughness and cost 3 or less, they're going to die very easily. I say this primarily because if those are the only creatures, people are going to have removal for them. It's highly unlikely you win with Sage, so you're basically having the opponent direct all their removal at the Cliques you play.
I've had some success with modern miracles granted it was on cockatrice so its not the best testing either but its doable-ish. I tried esper using telling times and dimir charms to set up miracles along with liliana vess to stack em and I was using the new jace too which worked incredibly well. and to top it all off I was packing mana tithes for the extra gotcha felt reeeeeeeeeealy good man
Temporal Mastery is Explore in the worst case of the best case, which is worst case of Miracling it. The best case always wins you the game. The worst case is when you draw it opening hand and it does nothing. It's best to think of the average case. If you consider Explore to be the average case, Explore isn't exactly that great. Don't get me wrong, it's not awful, but it's also not something this deck needs. You're never going to ult a Planeswalker on the extra turn since you play none, and given your only creatures are basically Clique and Sage, both which have 1 toughness and cost 3 or less, they're going to die very easily. I say this primarily because if those are the only creatures, people are going to have removal for them. It's highly unlikely you win with Sage, so you're basically having the opponent direct all their removal at the Cliques you play.
It seems like you are assessing Mastery only within the context of it's function as a proliferate or relentless assault. In this deck it's primary function is to fast forward you into a Miracle that wins you the game: Entreat or Bonfire. Winning with Clique beats or possibly getting Thassa online isn't really the game plan. Those spells mostly just facilitate the Miracle plan. So does Mastery.
If it was a 2 mana sorcery spell that read "Draw a card, untap 2 lands, if that card is a miracle, you may cast it as a miracle", you'd probably play it. Mastery does this AND Relentless Assaults when it's time to close the game out. I agree it is awful in hand though.
I've had some success with modern miracles granted it was on cockatrice so its not the best testing either but its doable-ish. I tried esper using telling times and dimir charms to set up miracles along with liliana vess to stack em and I was using the new jace too which worked incredibly well. and to top it all off I was packing mana tithes for the extra gotcha felt reeeeeeeeeealy good man
I'll have a thread up by this weekend or monday at the latest on it. im hoping to get the new jace this weekend so i can do a video on the deck as well, thanks for the interest.
I've been testing Miracles in Legacy and this is my assessment.
You direly need Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm to go with the fetches. You have some substandard version of Brainstorm in Serum Visions, but you really have nothing that's close to Top. You could probably play some weaker version of Miracles if Top was unbanned, but that's about it. There's absolutely NO reason to run Counterbalance without Top.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
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There is actually quite a lot of library manipulation - I play Modern Miracles.
However... the cards you mentioned are 1000 times better. Which is why it's not a "good" deck.
It is fun however
Crystal Ball and Mystic Speculation help A LOT. I also use Noxious Revival and Ideas Unbound. I play it with counterbalance.
Like I said though ... it's not really a good deck because it's missing key cards. It's fun though for like FNM.
Miracles wasn't a thing in Standard when Ponder (and to lesser extent: Looting and Noxious Revival) was legal so I doubt there's a way to make it viable in Modern.
Mabye a UWR version with Isochron Scepter? It sure as hell beats Crystal Ball and other suboptimal alternatives. But then on the other hand, a deck can only play 4 copies of Serum Visions and you might have something more interesting to imprint most of the time anyway.
EDIT: And of course you can't imprint Visions anyway. DUH!
Augury Owl, Cryptic Annelid, Crystal Seer, Descendant of Soramaro, Dimir Machinations, Dimir Charm, Discombobulate, Foresee, Gilt-Leaf Seer, Halimar Depths, Index, Inkfathom Divers, Judge Unworthy, Leashling, Mystic Speculation, Noxious Revival, Orcish Librarian, Prognostic Sphinx, Reclaim, Sage Aven, Sage of Epityr, Sage Owl, Second Sight, Serum Visions, Survivor of the Unseen, Sadistic Augermage, Telling Time, and Tunnel Vision.
Faithless Looting to filter through clunky miracles stuck in hand and set up Noxious Revival.
Haven't tried it though, just read about it elsewhere.
I'm building a proxy version to test.
Something important that hasn't been mentioned here: Remand, Vendilion Clique, Telling Time, and Desolate Lighthouse all allow for casting miracles on opponent's turn. This enables a more draw-go control style of play that sets up a lot more opportunities to rip a miracle without overloading the deck with them.
Here's the list I'm going to try. (And yes I'm aware that it's not optimized for the meta and folds to a resolved Blood Moon and so on.. It's just an attempt to see if I can get it running smoothly before venturing an attempt to streamline it for fnm play.)
Suggestions welcomed.
4 Sage of Epityr
4 Vendilion Clique
2 Thassa, God of the Sea
Enablers (13)
4 Telling Time
4 Remand
3 Magma Jet
2 Noxious Revival
Miracles (12)
3 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Entreat the Angels
3 Temporal Mastery
3 Terminus
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Desolate Lighthouse
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Mystic Gate
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
As for the deck, I definitely think Temporal Mastery is bad. The best you're going to do is Explore, since your creatures are weak and you're not really putting any kill pressure. Your win condition is almost exclusively the Entreat, so without it in play, Temporal Mastery does little to nothing.
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
Agreed about the limitations of the deck. Drawing the wrong card at inopportune times is just part of the game I guess.
Sorta disagree about Mastery though. Sure it's best if you are looking to ult a PW or get in a second combat phase for lethal, but I still think it does enough here. At worst an Explore is still decent to me. It's function as a second chance to rip that timely Entreat, Terminus, or Bonfire is exactly what this deck wants. Think of it like a cantrip that enables miracles or perhaps digging/thinning like manamorphose. I don't think it needs to be abused to be good here. It may very well become the flex slot of the deck though.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
Grixis Death's Shadow, Jund, UW Tron, Jeskai Control, Storm, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Affinity, Living End, Infect, Merfolk, Dredge, Ad Nauseam, Amulet, Bogles, Eldrazi Tron, Mono U Tron, Lantern, Mardu Pyromancer
It seems like you are assessing Mastery only within the context of it's function as a proliferate or relentless assault. In this deck it's primary function is to fast forward you into a Miracle that wins you the game: Entreat or Bonfire. Winning with Clique beats or possibly getting Thassa online isn't really the game plan. Those spells mostly just facilitate the Miracle plan. So does Mastery.
If it was a 2 mana sorcery spell that read "Draw a card, untap 2 lands, if that card is a miracle, you may cast it as a miracle", you'd probably play it. Mastery does this AND Relentless Assaults when it's time to close the game out. I agree it is awful in hand though.
I'd love to see a decklist.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
1 jace down 1 to go!!!
You direly need Sensei's Divining Top and Brainstorm to go with the fetches. You have some substandard version of Brainstorm in Serum Visions, but you really have nothing that's close to Top. You could probably play some weaker version of Miracles if Top was unbanned, but that's about it. There's absolutely NO reason to run Counterbalance without Top.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)