Does anyone have a competitively tuned decklist currently? I recently got pretty much all the cards for the deck assembled (besides my only having one liliana of the veil), and tried throwing a deck together. However, I'm not a great builder, and I haven't been performing very well at the shop. With that in mind, I was wondering if anyone had a decent base list to share. Additionally, I was wondering about a few matchups. Jund having Bob and Kommand lets them grind me out with ease, and olivia voldaren tends to wreck me if I can't answer it right away(something hard to do when everything they have is a huge threat), how do I win that matchup? Also, Tron. How do I have any chance there besides just running 4 ghost quarter and hoping for the best?
Edit: I've only been running 2 Death clouds because it feels weak most of the times I draw it, but does destroy lands and potentially do a lot of damage vs. Jund, could that be the key?
Hey there! I've been off of modern and death cloud for a while now and really missed that feeling of death clouding my opponent into oblivion. What I was running last was a variant of the old Osman Ozguney decklist that 5-0'd MTGO a while back. It was great at grinding but there were a lot of times that the deck was just durdling around. I definitely missed having the third Death Cloud in the main as the Dark Petition always seemed a turn too slow. Here's the list for reference:
The changes I would like to make to the above list probably would be: -1 Ob Nixilis, -1 Dark Petition, +1 Death Cloud, +1 Dismember/Murderous Cut.
This version doesn't have a problem out-grinding Jund and other midrange strategies. Keep in mind that you cannot let Dark Confidant live. Make sure to kill it on sight. After that, your cards tend to be better than Jund's on average. Liliana of the Veil, Damnation, and Death Cloud are invaluable in the matchup. Ghost Quarter tends to keep their man lands in check, while Treetop Village remains as one of the best ways this deck changes from control to aggressive. Tron and Scapeshift are just horrendous matchups any way you slice them. We don't get a clock online very quickly and the longer the game goes, we're just begging to be wrecked by Ugin/Karn/Ulamog. If there's any matchup you would like me to go into further, please don't hesitate to ask.
That being said, I am interested in trying out a few Smallpox Lingering Souls builds that did well recently. I've always been hesitant on jamming Smallpox with Death Cloud in the same deck because each subsequent Pox effect makes your Death Clouds weaker. With the ramp, Life From the Loam, and Lingering Souls I'm hoping to mitigate that issue and constantly pox my opponent to death.
Here's the list for this flavor of Death Cloud Komatsu Masahito piloted to top 8:
I'll report back on my findings when I get the chance. Until then, I'm hoping for some goodies in the new set and favorable shake-ups in the upcoming banned and restricted announcement.
Also, new changes to the planeswalker rule. This means that we can play Liliana of the Last Hope with Liliana of the Veil at the same time. The downside is that our UW Control matchup gets much worse.
The list you recommended seems sweet, I'll definitely try to put it together before my next modern event (this coming monday). However, I only have the one Liliana of the veil (I'll pick up the other copies ASAP but currently don't have the cash) and no copies of Liliana, the last hope(which I would like to wait for standard rotation before purchasing). what changes would you recommend I make? Second, I noticed the utopia sprawls in the list, which seem kind of weak. Turn one is usually spent on discard, it's very weak to land destruction, and seems like a terrible topdeck. compared to sakura-tribe elder and explore, which block and cycle respectively, it seems very subpar. I've never tested with it though, and the Garruk wildspeaker synergy is real, how has it performed for you? Lastly, a couple cards I've had good experience with weren't present in the list, and I was wondering what you thought of them. Kalitas, traitor of Ghet has been incredible, being a powerful threat on his own and working great with death cloud (bonus points for grave titan synergy). Nissa, vital force has also been a pretty sweet card, providing both a fast clock and repeatable recursion. The fact that her animated lands can block etched champion isn't insignificant either. Ob Nixilis reignited may just be the better 5 mana walker, and you recommended cutting him, but Nissa definitely has merit, and is at the least a lot of fun. I recommend trying her out if you haven't already. Also, though this is less specific to our deck, against gifts storm, what should i take with hand attack, what should i send to the yard when they gifts ungiven, and when and on what should I surgical extraction (should I even run surgical?).
The list you recommended seems sweet, I'll definitely try to put it together before my next modern event (this coming monday). However, I only have the one Liliana of the veil (I'll pick up the other copies ASAP but currently don't have the cash) and no copies of Liliana, the last hope(which I would like to wait for standard rotation before purchasing). what changes would you recommend I make? Second, I noticed the utopia sprawls in the list, which seem kind of weak. Turn one is usually spent on discard, it's very weak to land destruction, and seems like a terrible topdeck. compared to sakura-tribe elder and explore, which block and cycle respectively, it seems very subpar. I've never tested with it though, and the Garruk wildspeaker synergy is real, how has it performed for you? Lastly, a couple cards I've had good experience with weren't present in the list, and I was wondering what you thought of them. Kalitas, traitor of Ghet has been incredible, being a powerful threat on his own and working great with death cloud (bonus points for grave titan synergy). Nissa, vital force has also been a pretty sweet card, providing both a fast clock and repeatable recursion. The fact that her animated lands can block etched champion isn't insignificant either. Ob Nixilis reignited may just be the better 5 mana walker, and you recommended cutting him, but Nissa definitely has merit, and is at the least a lot of fun. I recommend trying her out if you haven't already. Also, though this is less specific to our deck, against gifts storm, what should i take with hand attack, what should i send to the yard when they gifts ungiven, and when and on what should I surgical extraction (should I even run surgical?).
Excellent questions. Unfortunately Liliana of the Veil is super important to black based midrange decks like ours. I definitely would get them as soon as possible. Liliana, the Last Hope luckily isn't as important, so you can definitely wait on that.
Initially I wasn't too much of a fan of ramp in this deck, and if I were to include it then Sakura-Tribe Elder was definitely my first choice. However, in my testing I have found that Utopia Sprawl does so much more than Sakura-Tribe Elder could ever do: ramp into turn 2 Liliana (or any other 3 drop). Aside from the obvious synergy with Garruk, Utopia Sprawl accelerated the deck a turn faster, allowing it to keep up with fast aggro and combo. Now the fast aggro part wasn't too bad as STE blocks, but the more powerful play was to power out a turn 2 Kitchen Finks or even Liliana to murder aggro or establish a fast clock. The card disadvantage is usually offset by the rest of our cards as most of our spells generally are 2-for-1's. The land destruction aspect definitely stings, but I tend to enchant the Utopia Sprawl on a basic forest to play around tectonic edge and fulminator mage. Molten Rain and the like aren't prevalent in the meta, but should they start popping up more I might switch back to Sakura-Tribe Elder. This would also mean that the meta would have slowed down enough to warrant Land Destruction decks to thrive. I'm not too worried either way. What actually does scare me is something like a Spreading Seas on my forest that's being enchanted by Sprawl, but if they're hitting the forest over a Treetop Village I guess I would be okay with that.
I played Kalitas for a time and was wondering how I would reincorporate him back into the deck. I ran Osman Ozguney's Mono Black Death Cloud, which had 3 Kalitas main and the 3 Damnation 4 Death Cloud sweeper set as well as my version of Death Cloud with Chalice of the Void with 2 Kalitas. The problem I had with Kalitas was that it required you to have a removal spell in hand for it to be good, and it was pretty terrible against control decks. I could see myself putting it back in the deck and playing more with it, but I see it better used in a more aggressive deck like Jund or The Rock.
Nissa seems like a lot of fun. I might try her out. Ob Nixilis was great in that he was the perfect slot that allowed the extra draw every turn while also protecting himself. If the meta is very slow and grindy I definitely recommend keeping him. Unfortunately he's pretty bad in my meta with a bunch of big mana decks like scapeshift and tron.
Gifts Storm is a critical mass deck. What I mean by that is they need a large amount of cards in their hand to combo off (the graveyard becomes an extension of their hand via Past in Flames). You generally take or kill their cost reduction spells (Baral, Chief of Compliance and Goblin Electromancer) immediately. I also would target their cantrips (Manamorphose or sometimes Sleight of Hand) because they are able to maintain a high hand size if their spells replace themselves. Collective Brutality is really good against them because it can attack a goblin electromancer while stripping them of a card. Resolving a Death Cloud is essentially an autowin against them. Remember to establish a clock and keep disrupting them because even though this is a favorable matchup, they can win out of nowhere with things like Empty the Warrens. Keep your damnations/maelstrom pulses in post board for this scenario. Surgical is great in that you can pick off multiple cards in their hand if given the opportunity. What you target definitely depends on the board state. Generally you would hit something like manamorphose or past in flames, but it is very play dependent. My go to graveyard hate has always been Leyline of the Void, but honestly Relic of Progenitus and Grafdigger's Cage are fine choices as well. Hope that helps.
Edit: Death Cloud is one of the game winners in the Jund matchup. 2 is a fine number if you're running Dark Petition to act as the virtual 3rd copy. Just remember to clear the board of opposing planeswalkers before Death Clouding your opponent, and you will win in short order.
I just reread the bulk of this thread -- I'm laid up and dying of the flu while we're on vacation -- and I just wanted to say that while I've been playing a straight BG Rock deck for a while now, I miss Death Cloud and I'll always love it for getting me into Modern. I hauled it out for a fun night with some friends not long ago; it smashed KnightFall pretty hard but, as usual, was a little soft to combo and control. One guy switched back and forth between his RW Blood Moon prison deck and his pet Esper Goryo's Obzedat deck, and I was just beating my head against a wall all night. If we don't have a clock and don't draw a Cloud, we're just durdling. That's what got me off the deck in the first place. (That and finally acquiring a set of Goyfs.)
I still play two Kalitas in my Rock deck. Check out Steve Hatto's deck from GP Birmingham for an idea of where I'm at -- my SB is different and I play a maindeck Sword of Light and Shadow, but you get the idea.
With the new planewalker rule I thought maybe it could work. Lilianas are so much better with a 2/2 blocker. The same with garruk. Perhaps even an Ob Nibelixs.
Has anybody tried this?
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I got pretty excited by the new planeswalker rule, since Veil is too good to cut but Hope is a great card as well. Does leave the 3 drop slot a little bit cramped but too many good cards is a nice problem to have. I've been grinding this deck on modo and it has been performing super well, four 5-0s in about 10 leagues. Between Fatal Push and Hope, the deck has never been better.
Planeswalkers are great in modern right now, there's relatively little Lightning Bolt. There's a bunch of weird 1ofs but postboard you get to present a very good deck no matter what they are playing.
The deck is a little soft to Gurmag Angler/Stubborn denial strategies, but it isn't unwinnable and it has a bunch of great matchups (anything planning on swarming the board generally has a bad time). Combo it depends a bit on which deck, but big mana strategies are decent with 2x shadow 4x fulminator 4x tec edge 2x primal command and loam.
The deck is heaps of fun, but be warned it is VERY slow. You grind them down until they have nothing left then kill them with eternal witness/quagmires in a lot of games (read- glorious).
Just checking in to see if anyone is still in this thread! I recently took the plunge and started playing this deck and am loving the way it plays. Hopefully I am not the only one playing!
Does anyone have a competitively tuned decklist currently? I recently got pretty much all the cards for the deck assembled (besides my only having one liliana of the veil), and tried throwing a deck together. However, I'm not a great builder, and I haven't been performing very well at the shop. With that in mind, I was wondering if anyone had a decent base list to share. Additionally, I was wondering about a few matchups. Jund having Bob and Kommand lets them grind me out with ease, and olivia voldaren tends to wreck me if I can't answer it right away(something hard to do when everything they have is a huge threat), how do I win that matchup? Also, Tron. How do I have any chance there besides just running 4 ghost quarter and hoping for the best?
Edit: I've only been running 2 Death clouds because it feels weak most of the times I draw it, but does destroy lands and potentially do a lot of damage vs. Jund, could that be the key?
If your death cloud list doesn't want to draw death cloud your deck doesn't make any sense. Play something different. After you death cloud you should win with a planeswalker, or a leftover token, or manland.
Hi people. First time poster here. I have checked this thread every now and again to see if something new pops up, and it seems largely dormant, so probably not a whole lot of death clouders out there these days. Anyhow, just wanted to say that I have been working on a death cloud deck over the past 6 months and been having a blast with it. I started off with Saffron Olive's budget build and went from there. It's now definitely a non-budget version of the deck. That being said, I recently went to my first real modern LGS tournament with it and went 3-0-1 (would have been 4-0 if I had one more turn or drew an untapped land). I went vs Tron (w) Eldrazi and taxes (w) living end (d) and eldrazi and taxes (w)
Death cloud feels so good against most matchups right now. Most of my opponents tend not to know what I'm doing until it's too late. They just think I'm some kind of fringe Rock deck. I guess I kind of am?
Anyhow, below is my current deck list. My most recent change was swapping out Ob Nixilis, Reignited for Nissa, Worldwaker. The extra ramp makes for some really great plays. It's kind of a Cloud-Walker deck. Very creature light, but still wins a majority of it's games from clouding and beating down with manlands or tokens.
The new Vraska is awesome. She's very slow, hence only a 1-of but I like her as the filler for the traditional Grave Titan slot. She makes tokens for beating down, she pseudo-vindicates with ramp, and threatens to reduce opponent to 1 life, which is amazing with death cloud. Plus, she is so high in loyalty that she buys you precious turns if you still need to set up. Love this card.
Haunted Plate Mail. Most of my opponents have to pick this one up and read it. It's a great creature-fact that dodges a lot of removal. Can equip on a token (or kalitas for lots of life) or can be used as a post-cloud beater. If you have multiples out, you can activate in response to the other's ability. They can also be activated before turning on a man-land for extra damage/blockers.
Only running 3x Cloud as I feel it's a card you want to see 1 of in a game, maybe two-of. Having 3+ in a hand can be brutal. Though never drawing one makes for a very awkward game. I feel 3 is the right number for this card.
Hostile Desert is another manland that works great as a one-of. Post cloud or with fetches, you will have several lands in the yard to beat down with. The biggest difference with this and treetop is it comes down untapped, so you can get that extra mana for a cloud or another large CMC card.
My sideboard is a bit wonky, I admit. I would like some Fulminator's for Tron matchup (I don't own any).
I lean heavily on board wipes and removal. It plays much like a control deck. My biggest natural enemies are opponents aether vials or mana rocks.
Anyway, I'm open for any feedback or suggestions. I've spent months scouring gatherer for the right cards at the right costs. Anything I've overlooked I'd like to know about. Thanks for reading.
Does anyone else find the new http://mythicspoiler.com/rix/cards/journeytoeternity.html really interesting? I'm planning on trying a build with 4 sakuras and 4 fulminators in the main on friday, Perhaps a grave titan or 2 to bring back.
Either use it to ramp out larger deathclouds or the planeswalker package.
Or to obliterate their manabase with fulminators and then take out the last few basics with a deathcloud.
I think journey could be playable, although a little clunky. The other card that interests me is World Shaper. Having that die and losing no lands (and gaining some) sounds like a great deal for DC.
Wanted to post the list I've been working on- have playtested it quite a bit and can say with certainty that it's much more powerful than the old midrangey garruk wildspeaker decks that I used to play. My goal was to create a list that could survive the durdly early game of ramping and have two possible ways to finsih the game. My issue with death cloud as the only win condition was that if it got taken away I would have no other way to win. That's when I decided to add 4x primeval titan to the list.
I deviate from the traditional death cloud list quite a bit- I have 10 sources of early ramp in STEve, search for tomorrow, solemn simulacrum. Land synergy 3-drops including courser for life gain against aggro and 4x tireless tracker. I've found tracker to be absurd in this deck- singlehandedly it can win you the game with how many clues it generates. Not only that, but you actually have the mana to crack all of your clues (some decks can't do this). Finally, I added 4 primeval titans as it is the best finisher in green. Slamming prime time as early as turn 4, fetching 2 tree top villages, and essentially getting 12/12 trample worth of power on one turn is a play that not many decks can deal with on turn 5. Alternatively you can fetch up 2 field of ruins and start widdling away at your opponent's manabase.
This deck tends to durdle for a few turns early game before dropping a death cloud or a prime time to win- so having a cost efficient suite of tools to deal with a variety of threats is important- I went for 4x push (has great revolt synergy with clues and field of ruin), 2x decay, 1x pulse, 3 LoTV, and 1x ob nixilis.
I cut garruk wildspeaker- I feel the card is actually terrible and just not powerful enough on its own to make it in modern. It usually would generate no value the turn I dropped it if I +1, and if I -1 it would just make a 3/3 and then die to bolt. That 3/3 would never actually be enough to finish the game on its own. If I'm going to play a 4-cost planeswalker or creature, it either needs to have phenomenal synergy with the rest of my deck, or be a win condition on its own from giving it +1 over and over again (giving it +1 just to -1 is too slow). I also cut thragtusk because I felt it is just not quite good enough on its own (maybe a sideboard card against aggro).
I added 2x solemn simulacrum because I feel it is perfect for this deck- it ramps us to have a higher death cloud count, it chumps to keep us alive, and it cycles itself after it dies so that we aren't down cards. I tried mwonvuli acid moss, and felt that we already destroy all of our opponent's lands with one death cloud, so there's no need to be redundant.
Main changes to the mana base include 4x field of ruins- this is a perfect card for us because it can help keep our opponent's off of an early tron without making us lose our own tempo (ghost quarter and tec edge cannot do this). Other than that, the mana base is pretty similar. We also have a lot of lands in general so it's relatively easy to pay the 2 mana to pop it.
If I were going to make any changes to the deck, I might cut the ob nixilis for another maelstrom pulse. I feel maelstrom pulse is really well positioned right now against a lot of the modern field. Overall the deck seems very good against midrange, has a decent matchup against control, but is weak to combo(storm/ad naus) and aggro (burn/affinity) due to a lack of early interaction. Would love some help figuring out the sideboard to shore up these bad matchups and any ways to further tune the list.
Wanted to post the list I've been working on- have playtested it quite a bit and can say with certainty that it's much more powerful than the old midrangey garruk wildspeaker decks that I used to play. My goal was to create a list that could survive the durdly early game of ramping and have two possible ways to finsih the game. My issue with death cloud as the only win condition was that if it got taken away I would have no other way to win. That's when I decided to add 4x primeval titan to the list.
I deviate from the traditional death cloud list quite a bit- I have 10 sources of early ramp in STEve, search for tomorrow, solemn simulacrum. Land synergy 3-drops including courser for life gain against aggro and 4x tireless tracker. I've found tracker to be absurd in this deck- singlehandedly it can win you the game with how many clues it generates. Not only that, but you actually have the mana to crack all of your clues (some decks can't do this). Finally, I added 4 primeval titans as it is the best finisher in green. Slamming prime time as early as turn 4, fetching 2 tree top villages, and essentially getting 12/12 trample worth of power on one turn is a play that not many decks can deal with on turn 5. Alternatively you can fetch up 2 field of ruins and start widdling away at your opponent's manabase.
This deck tends to durdle for a few turns early game before dropping a death cloud or a prime time to win- so having a cost efficient suite of tools to deal with a variety of threats is important- I went for 4x push (has great revolt synergy with clues and field of ruin), 2x decay, 1x pulse, 3 LoTV, and 1x ob nixilis.
I cut garruk wildspeaker- I feel the card is actually terrible and just not powerful enough on its own to make it in modern. It usually would generate no value the turn I dropped it if I +1, and if I -1 it would just make a 3/3 and then die to bolt. That 3/3 would never actually be enough to finish the game on its own. If I'm going to play a 4-cost planeswalker or creature, it either needs to have phenomenal synergy with the rest of my deck, or be a win condition on its own from giving it +1 over and over again (giving it +1 just to -1 is too slow). I also cut thragtusk because I felt it is just not quite good enough on its own (maybe a sideboard card against aggro).
I added 2x solemn simulacrum because I feel it is perfect for this deck- it ramps us to have a higher death cloud count, it chumps to keep us alive, and it cycles itself after it dies so that we aren't down cards. I tried mwonvuli acid moss, and felt that we already destroy all of our opponent's lands with one death cloud, so there's no need to be redundant.
Main changes to the mana base include 4x field of ruins- this is a perfect card for us because it can help keep our opponent's off of an early tron without making us lose our own tempo (ghost quarter and tec edge cannot do this). Other than that, the mana base is pretty similar. We also have a lot of lands in general so it's relatively easy to pay the 2 mana to pop it.
If I were going to make any changes to the deck, I might cut the ob nixilis for another maelstrom pulse. I feel maelstrom pulse is really well positioned right now against a lot of the modern field. Overall the deck seems very good against midrange, has a decent matchup against control, but is weak to combo(storm/ad naus) and aggro (burn/affinity) due to a lack of early interaction. Would love some help figuring out the sideboard to shore up these bad matchups and any ways to further tune the list.
Looks cool.
Been wanting to play cloud forever but just can't find a list that I like. Yours is akin to what I'm looking for. Affinity always requires so many sb slots...I'd say to start with more decays at the very least. Prolly some number of damnations too. I think u want main deck interaction like to or Inquisition. Otherwise u're always a dog g1
Yeah I think I'm going to cut ob nixlis for one damnation- he seems just a little bit too slow and I could use at least 1 extra sweeper. My issue with running thoughtseize/ inquisition in the main is those cards are best used in powerful aggressive and midrange decks. This is mainly because you want to drop your disruption on turn 1, and then a cost effective threat on 2- tarmogoyf, confidant, grim flayer, death's shadow, etc. The idea is that you are clearing a safe path for your creature that you beat the opponent down with. Our game plan isn't that focused- STEve isn't meant to be the turn 2 beater that so many other G/B decks run. This is a slower paced control deck trying to do its own thing, keep the opponent off beat, and have great finishing power in 4x prime time and 4x death cloud. I agree, however, that there is some merit to including some number of Thoughtseize in the sideboard to strip opponent's of combo pieces, lanterns, or counterspells. Creeping Corrosion is a huge bomb vs. affinity and lantern- might be worth including 2 of those and an extra damnation in the side.
I've been playing a budget version (no LOTV) and the deck is quite solid. I disagree with Garruk Wildspeaker being cut - he singlehandedly can win you the game after a Death Cloud. Untapping lands with attached Utopia Sprawls is such a big game with a Deathcloud or Grave Titan on deck.
I've been trying to make this work for a while now and one card that has been lights out for me, even though it seems a little innocuous at first, is: World Shaper.
It does 2 things for the deck: 1) it mills you (lands/life from the loam) but mainly it's a knockout punch with the death cloud since when it gets sacked to the cloud, it'll bring back all those lands you just dunked. It'll be a one sided armageddon. It's been sweet.
I'm going to fill up the Verdant Catacombs to 4, add more Oozes (at least for the SB), and add 4 Inquisitions (will probably replace them with duress for now). Other than that I have been thinking that Gurmag Angler doesn't seem too bad here, since we ramp into it and get lots of stuff into the GY. This could avoid playing too fair. Kitchen Finks are also planned, and will probably replace some Witnesses to put some more things in the 3 CMC slot. Fatal Pushes are on their way. For now I'd like to avoid adding the 3CMC Lilianas, for monetary reasons. I would like to test out the deck first, and see how I like it before adding something so costly. Are Arbor Elf or Search for Tomorrow good in this deck to ramp into a Death Cloud more quickly?
Going through the deck again, currently it seems like it just isn't great at doing what I would want it to do yet: Clog up the board with small minions until I can land a PW that I follow up with a Death Cloud. The Garruk + Utopia Sprawl synergy is nice, but I definitely still need some sort of draw.
@ baron_sengir_007 i like your list im just putting a version of this together as well.
I play pyro prison as my main modern deck and my meta has changed significantly to the point where blood moon/chalice/ensnaring bridge are either ineffective or not long for this world due to people packing artifact and enchantment removal for me.
Anyways my list is more focused on operating the same way as gr ponza I plan to play 4 rain of tears and 4 mwonvouli acid moss combined with arbor elf and utopia sprawl this should allow me to ramp into powerful finishers earlier than most opponents should be able to deal with combine that with land destruction to set my opponents back a turn and some hand disruption to take relevant cards.
I think your list could use 1 if not 2 urborg to help with the double and triple black cards. I also think that having at least 1 primal command to go along with the eternal witness just provides so much card advantage against a lot of popular decks in the format. I do like the heart of Kiran as an early beater that stays through board wipes and can be crewed with loyalty it's very innovative.
A friend of mine and I who both play Legacy Pox here in Louisville have been messing around w Death Cloud experiments and he has been playing a lot of games on Untap. I’m encouraging him to come post over here about them
Only managed one FNM with it though. 0-2
Vs affinity and abzan comapany.
Anyone running cloud still?
Edit: I've only been running 2 Death clouds because it feels weak most of the times I draw it, but does destroy lands and potentially do a lot of damage vs. Jund, could that be the key?
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
3 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Treetop Village
2 Twilight Mire
Creatures: 7
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Damnation
1 Primal Command
1 Dark Petition
2 Death Cloud
Planeswalkers: 8
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
2 Collective Brutality
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Fulminator Mage
1 Damnation
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
4 Leyline of the Void
This version doesn't have a problem out-grinding Jund and other midrange strategies. Keep in mind that you cannot let Dark Confidant live. Make sure to kill it on sight. After that, your cards tend to be better than Jund's on average. Liliana of the Veil, Damnation, and Death Cloud are invaluable in the matchup. Ghost Quarter tends to keep their man lands in check, while Treetop Village remains as one of the best ways this deck changes from control to aggressive. Tron and Scapeshift are just horrendous matchups any way you slice them. We don't get a clock online very quickly and the longer the game goes, we're just begging to be wrecked by Ugin/Karn/Ulamog. If there's any matchup you would like me to go into further, please don't hesitate to ask.
That being said, I am interested in trying out a few Smallpox Lingering Souls builds that did well recently. I've always been hesitant on jamming Smallpox with Death Cloud in the same deck because each subsequent Pox effect makes your Death Clouds weaker. With the ramp, Life From the Loam, and Lingering Souls I'm hoping to mitigate that issue and constantly pox my opponent to death.
Here's the list for this flavor of Death Cloud Komatsu Masahito piloted to top 8:
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
3 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Twilight Mire
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Treetop Village
Creatures: 3
1 Eternal Witness
2 Kitchen Finks
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Collective Brutality
1 Life From The Loam
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Lingering Souls
4 Smallpox
3 Death Cloud
1 Damnation
Planeswalkers: 7
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, The Last Hope
2 Collective Brutality
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Damnation
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Kitchen Finks
2 Lost Legacy
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Relic of Progenitus
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Treetop Village
2 Twilight Mire
Enchantment (4)
4 Utopia Sprawl
Creature (6)
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Grave Titan
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Murderous Cut
Sorcery (12)
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
1 Primal Command
1 Dark Petition
2 Death Cloud
Planeswalker (9)
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Nature's Claim
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Damnation
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Ravenous Trap
Modern MOCS
Excellent questions. Unfortunately Liliana of the Veil is super important to black based midrange decks like ours. I definitely would get them as soon as possible. Liliana, the Last Hope luckily isn't as important, so you can definitely wait on that.
Initially I wasn't too much of a fan of ramp in this deck, and if I were to include it then Sakura-Tribe Elder was definitely my first choice. However, in my testing I have found that Utopia Sprawl does so much more than Sakura-Tribe Elder could ever do: ramp into turn 2 Liliana (or any other 3 drop). Aside from the obvious synergy with Garruk, Utopia Sprawl accelerated the deck a turn faster, allowing it to keep up with fast aggro and combo. Now the fast aggro part wasn't too bad as STE blocks, but the more powerful play was to power out a turn 2 Kitchen Finks or even Liliana to murder aggro or establish a fast clock. The card disadvantage is usually offset by the rest of our cards as most of our spells generally are 2-for-1's. The land destruction aspect definitely stings, but I tend to enchant the Utopia Sprawl on a basic forest to play around tectonic edge and fulminator mage. Molten Rain and the like aren't prevalent in the meta, but should they start popping up more I might switch back to Sakura-Tribe Elder. This would also mean that the meta would have slowed down enough to warrant Land Destruction decks to thrive. I'm not too worried either way. What actually does scare me is something like a Spreading Seas on my forest that's being enchanted by Sprawl, but if they're hitting the forest over a Treetop Village I guess I would be okay with that.
I played Kalitas for a time and was wondering how I would reincorporate him back into the deck. I ran Osman Ozguney's Mono Black Death Cloud, which had 3 Kalitas main and the 3 Damnation 4 Death Cloud sweeper set as well as my version of Death Cloud with Chalice of the Void with 2 Kalitas. The problem I had with Kalitas was that it required you to have a removal spell in hand for it to be good, and it was pretty terrible against control decks. I could see myself putting it back in the deck and playing more with it, but I see it better used in a more aggressive deck like Jund or The Rock.
Nissa seems like a lot of fun. I might try her out. Ob Nixilis was great in that he was the perfect slot that allowed the extra draw every turn while also protecting himself. If the meta is very slow and grindy I definitely recommend keeping him. Unfortunately he's pretty bad in my meta with a bunch of big mana decks like scapeshift and tron.
Gifts Storm is a critical mass deck. What I mean by that is they need a large amount of cards in their hand to combo off (the graveyard becomes an extension of their hand via Past in Flames). You generally take or kill their cost reduction spells (Baral, Chief of Compliance and Goblin Electromancer) immediately. I also would target their cantrips (Manamorphose or sometimes Sleight of Hand) because they are able to maintain a high hand size if their spells replace themselves. Collective Brutality is really good against them because it can attack a goblin electromancer while stripping them of a card. Resolving a Death Cloud is essentially an autowin against them. Remember to establish a clock and keep disrupting them because even though this is a favorable matchup, they can win out of nowhere with things like Empty the Warrens. Keep your damnations/maelstrom pulses in post board for this scenario. Surgical is great in that you can pick off multiple cards in their hand if given the opportunity. What you target definitely depends on the board state. Generally you would hit something like manamorphose or past in flames, but it is very play dependent. My go to graveyard hate has always been Leyline of the Void, but honestly Relic of Progenitus and Grafdigger's Cage are fine choices as well. Hope that helps.
Edit: Death Cloud is one of the game winners in the Jund matchup. 2 is a fine number if you're running Dark Petition to act as the virtual 3rd copy. Just remember to clear the board of opposing planeswalkers before Death Clouding your opponent, and you will win in short order.
I still play two Kalitas in my Rock deck. Check out Steve Hatto's deck from GP Birmingham for an idea of where I'm at -- my SB is different and I play a maindeck Sword of Light and Shadow, but you get the idea.
Excelsior!
With the new planewalker rule I thought maybe it could work. Lilianas are so much better with a 2/2 blocker. The same with garruk. Perhaps even an Ob Nibelixs.
Has anybody tried this?
2 Blooming Marsh
4 Hissing Quagmire
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Golgari Rot Farm
4 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Twilight Mire
Instants and Sorceries (21)
3 Raven's Crime
4 Fatal Push
1 Tragic Slip
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Night's Whisper
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Life from the Loam
3 Damnation
2 Primal Command
2 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
Artifacts (1)
1 Nihil Spellbomb
Planeswalkers (10)
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Liliana the Last Hope
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Nissa Vital Force
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Shadow of Doubt
3 Leyline of the Void
1 Sun Droplet
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Scavening Ooze
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
Planeswalkers are great in modern right now, there's relatively little Lightning Bolt. There's a bunch of weird 1ofs but postboard you get to present a very good deck no matter what they are playing.
The deck is a little soft to Gurmag Angler/Stubborn denial strategies, but it isn't unwinnable and it has a bunch of great matchups (anything planning on swarming the board generally has a bad time). Combo it depends a bit on which deck, but big mana strategies are decent with 2x shadow 4x fulminator 4x tec edge 2x primal command and loam.
The deck is heaps of fun, but be warned it is VERY slow. You grind them down until they have nothing left then kill them with eternal witness/quagmires in a lot of games (read- glorious).
"If it was easy, everyone would do it."
If your death cloud list doesn't want to draw death cloud your deck doesn't make any sense. Play something different. After you death cloud you should win with a planeswalker, or a leftover token, or manland.
Death cloud feels so good against most matchups right now. Most of my opponents tend not to know what I'm doing until it's too late. They just think I'm some kind of fringe Rock deck. I guess I kind of am?
Anyhow, below is my current deck list. My most recent change was swapping out Ob Nixilis, Reignited for Nissa, Worldwaker. The extra ramp makes for some really great plays. It's kind of a Cloud-Walker deck. Very creature light, but still wins a majority of it's games from clouding and beating down with manlands or tokens.
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
4x Utopia Sprawl
CMC: 2 (5)
3x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Abrupt Decay
CMC: 3 (7)
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Eternal Witness
CMC: 4 (8)
2x Haunted Plate Mail
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Damnation
2x Thragtusk
1x Nissa, Worldwaker
CMC: 6 (1)
1x Vraska, Relic Seeker
CMC: X (3)
3x Death Cloud
Lands (23)
2 Blooming Marsh
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Treetop Village
1 Hostile Desert
1 Hissing Quagmire
1 Bojuka Bog
5 Forest
4 Swamp
3 Extirpate
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Damnation
1 Grave Titan
1 Naturalize
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Fatal Push
1 Death Cloud
Some notes:
The new Vraska is awesome. She's very slow, hence only a 1-of but I like her as the filler for the traditional Grave Titan slot. She makes tokens for beating down, she pseudo-vindicates with ramp, and threatens to reduce opponent to 1 life, which is amazing with death cloud. Plus, she is so high in loyalty that she buys you precious turns if you still need to set up. Love this card.
Haunted Plate Mail. Most of my opponents have to pick this one up and read it. It's a great creature-fact that dodges a lot of removal. Can equip on a token (or kalitas for lots of life) or can be used as a post-cloud beater. If you have multiples out, you can activate in response to the other's ability. They can also be activated before turning on a man-land for extra damage/blockers.
Only running 3x Cloud as I feel it's a card you want to see 1 of in a game, maybe two-of. Having 3+ in a hand can be brutal. Though never drawing one makes for a very awkward game. I feel 3 is the right number for this card.
Hostile Desert is another manland that works great as a one-of. Post cloud or with fetches, you will have several lands in the yard to beat down with. The biggest difference with this and treetop is it comes down untapped, so you can get that extra mana for a cloud or another large CMC card.
My sideboard is a bit wonky, I admit. I would like some Fulminator's for Tron matchup (I don't own any).
I lean heavily on board wipes and removal. It plays much like a control deck. My biggest natural enemies are opponents aether vials or mana rocks.
Anyway, I'm open for any feedback or suggestions. I've spent months scouring gatherer for the right cards at the right costs. Anything I've overlooked I'd like to know about. Thanks for reading.
Either use it to ramp out larger deathclouds or the planeswalker package.
Or to obliterate their manabase with fulminators and then take out the last few basics with a deathcloud.
1x Blooming Marsh
4x Field of Ruin
4x Forest
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Swamp
4x Treetop Village
1x Twilight Mire
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Courser of Kruphix
4x Primeval Titan
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Solemn Simulacrum
4x Tireless Tracker
Planeswalker (4)
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Ob Nixilis Reignited
4x Death Cloud
1x Maelstrom Pulse
4x Search for Tomorrow
Instant (6)
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Fatal Push
I deviate from the traditional death cloud list quite a bit- I have 10 sources of early ramp in STEve, search for tomorrow, solemn simulacrum. Land synergy 3-drops including courser for life gain against aggro and 4x tireless tracker. I've found tracker to be absurd in this deck- singlehandedly it can win you the game with how many clues it generates. Not only that, but you actually have the mana to crack all of your clues (some decks can't do this). Finally, I added 4 primeval titans as it is the best finisher in green. Slamming prime time as early as turn 4, fetching 2 tree top villages, and essentially getting 12/12 trample worth of power on one turn is a play that not many decks can deal with on turn 5. Alternatively you can fetch up 2 field of ruins and start widdling away at your opponent's manabase.
This deck tends to durdle for a few turns early game before dropping a death cloud or a prime time to win- so having a cost efficient suite of tools to deal with a variety of threats is important- I went for 4x push (has great revolt synergy with clues and field of ruin), 2x decay, 1x pulse, 3 LoTV, and 1x ob nixilis.
I cut garruk wildspeaker- I feel the card is actually terrible and just not powerful enough on its own to make it in modern. It usually would generate no value the turn I dropped it if I +1, and if I -1 it would just make a 3/3 and then die to bolt. That 3/3 would never actually be enough to finish the game on its own. If I'm going to play a 4-cost planeswalker or creature, it either needs to have phenomenal synergy with the rest of my deck, or be a win condition on its own from giving it +1 over and over again (giving it +1 just to -1 is too slow). I also cut thragtusk because I felt it is just not quite good enough on its own (maybe a sideboard card against aggro).
I added 2x solemn simulacrum because I feel it is perfect for this deck- it ramps us to have a higher death cloud count, it chumps to keep us alive, and it cycles itself after it dies so that we aren't down cards. I tried mwonvuli acid moss, and felt that we already destroy all of our opponent's lands with one death cloud, so there's no need to be redundant.
Main changes to the mana base include 4x field of ruins- this is a perfect card for us because it can help keep our opponent's off of an early tron without making us lose our own tempo (ghost quarter and tec edge cannot do this). Other than that, the mana base is pretty similar. We also have a lot of lands in general so it's relatively easy to pay the 2 mana to pop it.
If I were going to make any changes to the deck, I might cut the ob nixilis for another maelstrom pulse. I feel maelstrom pulse is really well positioned right now against a lot of the modern field. Overall the deck seems very good against midrange, has a decent matchup against control, but is weak to combo(storm/ad naus) and aggro (burn/affinity) due to a lack of early interaction. Would love some help figuring out the sideboard to shore up these bad matchups and any ways to further tune the list.
Looks cool.
Been wanting to play cloud forever but just can't find a list that I like. Yours is akin to what I'm looking for. Affinity always requires so many sb slots...I'd say to start with more decays at the very least. Prolly some number of damnations too. I think u want main deck interaction like to or Inquisition. Otherwise u're always a dog g1
It does 2 things for the deck: 1) it mills you (lands/life from the loam) but mainly it's a knockout punch with the death cloud since when it gets sacked to the cloud, it'll bring back all those lands you just dunked. It'll be a one sided armageddon. It's been sweet.
2 Thoughtseize
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Fatal Push
[CMC2]
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Eternal Witness
1 Ramunap Excavator
[CMC4]
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
[CMC5]
2 Thragtusk
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
4 Death Cloud
[Lands]
4 Overgrown Tomb
1 Verdant Catacombs
9 Forest
9 Swamp
I'm going to fill up the Verdant Catacombs to 4, add more Oozes (at least for the SB), and add 4 Inquisitions (will probably replace them with duress for now). Other than that I have been thinking that Gurmag Angler doesn't seem too bad here, since we ramp into it and get lots of stuff into the GY. This could avoid playing too fair. Kitchen Finks are also planned, and will probably replace some Witnesses to put some more things in the 3 CMC slot. Fatal Pushes are on their way. For now I'd like to avoid adding the 3CMC Lilianas, for monetary reasons. I would like to test out the deck first, and see how I like it before adding something so costly. Are Arbor Elf or Search for Tomorrow good in this deck to ramp into a Death Cloud more quickly?
Going through the deck again, currently it seems like it just isn't great at doing what I would want it to do yet: Clog up the board with small minions until I can land a PW that I follow up with a Death Cloud. The Garruk + Utopia Sprawl synergy is nice, but I definitely still need some sort of draw.
I play pyro prison as my main modern deck and my meta has changed significantly to the point where blood moon/chalice/ensnaring bridge are either ineffective or not long for this world due to people packing artifact and enchantment removal for me.
Anyways my list is more focused on operating the same way as gr ponza I plan to play 4 rain of tears and 4 mwonvouli acid moss combined with arbor elf and utopia sprawl this should allow me to ramp into powerful finishers earlier than most opponents should be able to deal with combine that with land destruction to set my opponents back a turn and some hand disruption to take relevant cards.
I think your list could use 1 if not 2 urborg to help with the double and triple black cards. I also think that having at least 1 primal command to go along with the eternal witness just provides so much card advantage against a lot of popular decks in the format. I do like the heart of Kiran as an early beater that stays through board wipes and can be crewed with loyalty it's very innovative.
A friend of mine and I who both play Legacy Pox here in Louisville have been messing around w Death Cloud experiments and he has been playing a lot of games on Untap. I’m encouraging him to come post over here about them
Creatures: 12
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Grave Titan
1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
PWs: 7
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
Spells: 19
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Death Cloud
1 Damnation
2 Phyrexian Arena
1 Primal Command
1 Dark Petition
3 Rain of Tears
1 Mwonvuli Acid Moss
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Radiant Fountain
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Twilight Mire
1 Blooming Marsh
2 Temple of Malady
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Windswept Heath
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Extirpate
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Unravel the Aether
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Creeping Corrosion
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Darkblast
1 Bow of Nylea