Pitching LS to a discard effect is fine (or quite good as the case may be.) Its absolutely how you break the symmetry of LotV and the pox effects. Discarding LS doesn't make LotV's 1 for 1 into a 0 for 1. It makes it into something like a 1 for 0.5 or something. The consistency issue along with there not being quite enough of these sorts of cards is what keeps this deck out of T1 I think.
Ran this at my LGS, went 3-2, lost to hate bears on a top deck in game three, he drew a land to activate a treetop village and hit me for lethal after a death cloud. Lost round 4 to tron, he had turn 3 Karn both games, didn't draw a pulse, lost bad, beat scapeshift, a monoblack aggro/pod brew and american control(won game 3 with big garruk), I love how the deck plays when its clicking, need to work on some numbers and the sideboard, but liked the overall feel of the deck.
...lost to hate bears on a top deck in game three, he drew a land to activate a treetop village and hit me for lethal after a death cloud.
See these are the stories that make me wary of Death Cloud. Is it just because no one is posting about the time they Death Clouded for lethal?
Sorlin, given the board state before you cast Death Cloud, was there any card that would have been better in that situation? Obviously MtG doesn't have the little win %s show up at the bottom of the screen like in poker, but do you think that Death Cloud put you at some insane win percentage that no other card could have done?
If it had been one of my black sun's, I could have whipped his board, and put a beast in play to block his land, but the death cloud was for 4 to kill all his dudes, his hand and make him HAVE to top deck a untapped land to beat me. Was a great match, but cant win them all.
If it had been one of my black sun's, I could have whipped his board, and put a beast in play to block his land, but the death cloud was for 4 to kill all his dudes, his hand and make him HAVE to top deck a untapped land to beat me. Was a great match, but cant win them all.
It sounds perfectly reasonable from my point of view. I wouldn't get discouraged by one top deck since it's just the variance of the game. I've had many instances where my opponent just draws gas he can't cast after a DC, but I've also had times where my opponent was able to come back. Your list looks very similar to mine. How's super heavyweight Garruk been in the mainboard? I'm starting to warm up to playing him especially since I have issues with rival PW.
I wasn't upset at the loss, it was just bad luck, but not casting it was an autoloss. Super Garruk was awsome every time I cast him. He always takes over the game, plus the reactions of my opponents was always priceless. A buddy of mine are doing different decks each week for a while, but I will be coming back to this deck.
The land base could do with a bit of work as I am missing Verdant Catacombs and I have only just started to work on the sideboard. I might also need to increase the number of basic lands as my meta is infested with Blood Moon.
Just wanted to commment and post my list since I am a big fan of deck. This is what i have been running with very good luck. Been able to 4-0 and 3-1 many times in my Local FNM and some 8 mans on Modo. I have had more Consistant matches since dropping 4 Elders and adding 2 Coursers, 1 land and Arena. Im always open for critism of my deck to make it better.
I'm glad to see someone dropped STE and is getting reasonable results. I like Sudden Death. I've been running a couple of Unmake, but I can easily see how a local meta would favor Sudden Death.
Does the Phyrexian Arena come up enough to be worth it? People have been pushing me to run a couple in a similar list. I find removal and Finks competing for the 3 drop slot and feel I get enough CA out of the planeswalkers that I only feel behind against dedicated CA engines.
How's Choke? I looked at it previously but never tested. I know some people aren't jazzed because Sulfur Falls and Cascade Bluffs sort of nullify it. However, there does sort of need to be a plan for the Blue decks.
Sudden Death is amazing against colonade, twin, batterskull, just a lot of targets since it cannot be countered. i actually want to run to arena's because when it does hit the board its amazing. works very well with courser. I have thought of putting 1 thrun in main board because it seems all I see is blue decks. paper and modo. I have also thought of 26 lands. this deck seems like it cannot miss land drops.
Anyone not running 3-4 Golgari rot farms is massively gimping themselves. Its essential to keeeping treetop+rotfarm usable with only 2 lands. I have won a ton of times at 1 life with that combo. Plus its strong with Garruk wildspeaker.
Anyone not running 3-4 Golgari rot farms is massively gimping themselves. Its essential to keeeping treetop+rotfarm usable with only 2 lands. I have won a ton of times at 1 life with that combo. Plus its strong with Garruk wildspeaker.
Please guys fix your lists
There's a good reason why some people including myself have dropped Rot Farms from their lists. There's certainly an advantage to running Rot Farm but there's a huge risk as well. It's clunky to get going and in a meta where Tectonic Edge is prevalent, it's a huge target. I can understand 1-2 Rot Farms, but 3-4 needs a much more supportive deck than jam 3-4 Rot Farms in any typical Cloud deck. If it works for you fine that's great, but I wouldn't question people not running them as wrong.
Golgari Rot Farm, meet Tectonic Edge. And his best mate, Fulminator Mage. Coupled with fun like Cryptic Command, playing Rotfarm can screw you over bigtime. Any opening hand with 2 Rotfarm is basically unkeepable.
The card does have nice synergy with Garruk, but ever since the scrylands were printed I'd recommend them if you want some extra value from your manabase, it's way less risky and the payoff isn't too much less.
Explore is very strong in the land heavy builds. IMO, to make it worth, you really need at least 26 lands. I personally don't run any ramp at the moment, but if I was going to play any Explore would be my card of choice, particularly cause Night of Souls' Betrayal and Elder aren't very good together. Elder does gain value if you are playing more aggressive beaters like Treetop and Finks though, because attacking with a 1/1 is a lot better than people give it credit for.
Played in a modern format FNM. First time in many months, and updated an old version of this deck that was posted by Pooping. I'll post the deck in full a little later, but just wanted to crow that the deck went 2-0, 2-0, 2-1, 2-0. No one was prepared for it, and it had answers for everything I faced.
When you're running 26-28 land, you're much less likely to be stuck on 2 land in the first place, and you're also more likely to draw a land off explore. It's a little riskier than SKE, no question, but Explore is much better lategame cause it cycles. It's a playable option, but none of the lists people have posted lately are land heavy enough to warrant it.
Fetches and splashes:
BUG- Already had Misty/Verdant, so getting Polluted isn't a huge upgrade
Junk- I don't think you even play Windswept when you already have Marsh/Verdant
Jund- Getting Bloodstained/Wooded is nice, since there was only one double-colour fetch.
Unless you're splashing red it's not really going to make a difference. It makes me happy that all 10 fetches are legal though, it always felt odd that enemy colours had better mana. Fingers crossed for enemy coloured manlands (I can dream right?)
I also would recommend you guys try out the Souls cycle. Soul of Shandalar has been absurd for me the past few weeks- I know most of you don't run red but maybe Soul of Innistrad/Zendikar would go well in some creature heavy builds? Being able to discard them to Lil/Cloud and fetch them with Primal Command is really, really good.
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Kitchen Finks
Sorcery
3 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Damnation
3 Death Cloud
Instant
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Smother
1 Slaughter Pact
Planeswalker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Garruk, Apex Predator
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Treetop Village
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Dismember
2 Drown in Sorrow
2 Choke
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Black Sun's Zenith
Ran this at my LGS, went 3-2, lost to hate bears on a top deck in game three, he drew a land to activate a treetop village and hit me for lethal after a death cloud. Lost round 4 to tron, he had turn 3 Karn both games, didn't draw a pulse, lost bad, beat scapeshift, a monoblack aggro/pod brew and american control(won game 3 with big garruk), I love how the deck plays when its clicking, need to work on some numbers and the sideboard, but liked the overall feel of the deck.
See these are the stories that make me wary of Death Cloud. Is it just because no one is posting about the time they Death Clouded for lethal?
Sorlin, given the board state before you cast Death Cloud, was there any card that would have been better in that situation? Obviously MtG doesn't have the little win %s show up at the bottom of the screen like in poker, but do you think that Death Cloud put you at some insane win percentage that no other card could have done?
It sounds perfectly reasonable from my point of view. I wouldn't get discouraged by one top deck since it's just the variance of the game. I've had many instances where my opponent just draws gas he can't cast after a DC, but I've also had times where my opponent was able to come back. Your list looks very similar to mine. How's super heavyweight Garruk been in the mainboard? I'm starting to warm up to playing him especially since I have issues with rival PW.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
I planning to put together Death Cloud to give me a break from Storm and WUR control. My starting list at this point is:
4x Forest
1x Golgari Rot Farm
2x Marsh Flats
1x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
4x Overgrown Tomb
4x Swamp
1x Temple of Malady
2x Treetop Village
1x Twilight Mire
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Woodland Cemetery
2x Damnation
3x Death Cloud
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Maelstrom Pulse
3x Thoughtseize
Creature (10)
4x Kitchen Finks
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Smother
Planeswalker (7)
1x Vraska the Unseen
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
3x Liliana of the Veil
The land base could do with a bit of work as I am missing Verdant Catacombs and I have only just started to work on the sideboard. I might also need to increase the number of basic lands as my meta is infested with Blood Moon.
Out of curiosity has anyone tested Tombstalker or Life From the Loam and if so how have they been?
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Courser of Kruphix
Planeswalkers
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Liliana of the Veil
Instants
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Sudden Death
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Putrefy
Sorcery
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Blackmail
2 Death Cloud
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Phyrexian Arena
Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
3 Forest
3 Treetop Village
3 Woodland Cemetery
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Golgari Rot Farm
1 Tectonic Edge
2 Choke
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Death Cloud
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Duress
1 Blackmail
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Damnation
2 Rain of Tears
1 Golgari Charm
Just wanted to commment and post my list since I am a big fan of deck. This is what i have been running with very good luck. Been able to 4-0 and 3-1 many times in my Local FNM and some 8 mans on Modo. I have had more Consistant matches since dropping 4 Elders and adding 2 Coursers, 1 land and Arena. Im always open for critism of my deck to make it better.
Does the Phyrexian Arena come up enough to be worth it? People have been pushing me to run a couple in a similar list. I find removal and Finks competing for the 3 drop slot and feel I get enough CA out of the planeswalkers that I only feel behind against dedicated CA engines.
How's Choke? I looked at it previously but never tested. I know some people aren't jazzed because Sulfur Falls and Cascade Bluffs sort of nullify it. However, there does sort of need to be a plan for the Blue decks.
Ugh... I should probably be running 25 lands...
Sudden Death is amazing against colonade, twin, batterskull, just a lot of targets since it cannot be countered. i actually want to run to arena's because when it does hit the board its amazing. works very well with courser. I have thought of putting 1 thrun in main board because it seems all I see is blue decks. paper and modo. I have also thought of 26 lands. this deck seems like it cannot miss land drops.
Please guys fix your lists
There's a good reason why some people including myself have dropped Rot Farms from their lists. There's certainly an advantage to running Rot Farm but there's a huge risk as well. It's clunky to get going and in a meta where Tectonic Edge is prevalent, it's a huge target. I can understand 1-2 Rot Farms, but 3-4 needs a much more supportive deck than jam 3-4 Rot Farms in any typical Cloud deck. If it works for you fine that's great, but I wouldn't question people not running them as wrong.
Credit to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the Avatar & Miraculous Recovery for the Banner.
My 540 Card Cube (WIP)
The card does have nice synergy with Garruk, but ever since the scrylands were printed I'd recommend them if you want some extra value from your manabase, it's way less risky and the payoff isn't too much less.
Land - 24
4 Verdant Catcombs
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
2 Stirring Wildwoods
2 Plains
2 Temple Garden
4 Swamp
3 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Creatures - 15
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Lingering Souls
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
Planeswalkers - 6
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana Vess
Spells - 15
3 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Damnation
3 Death Cloud
1 Crime/ Punishment
Sideboard - 15
1 Crime/ Punishment
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Putrefy
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Crypt Incursion
2 Golgari charm
Fetches and splashes:
BUG- Already had Misty/Verdant, so getting Polluted isn't a huge upgrade
Junk- I don't think you even play Windswept when you already have Marsh/Verdant
Jund- Getting Bloodstained/Wooded is nice, since there was only one double-colour fetch.
Unless you're splashing red it's not really going to make a difference. It makes me happy that all 10 fetches are legal though, it always felt odd that enemy colours had better mana. Fingers crossed for enemy coloured manlands (I can dream right?)
I also would recommend you guys try out the Souls cycle. Soul of Shandalar has been absurd for me the past few weeks- I know most of you don't run red but maybe Soul of Innistrad/Zendikar would go well in some creature heavy builds? Being able to discard them to Lil/Cloud and fetch them with Primal Command is really, really good.