I like this very much, feels suprisingly versatile for just one mana + one mana activation. It has flying too, so it is not a downgrade from our birds and would definitely improve quite a few matchups. I'll try a couple over some familiars/pests for sure when it becomes legal .
When do you have mana up to activate it? Granted I don't play the deck much anymore but when I did I was tapped out the first 3 turns minimum or just too far behind for it to matter.
Verdict is not that good against us. It has to resolve through Lodestones and Thorns and we still have Copters, Thrones, Manlands, Wurmcoil, Gift, maybe Sword, Hangarback or Batterskull; the point is we have stuff.
Stony Silence is the bigger problem.
I wouldn't waste time on Hope, it is one colorless mana for a reason.
First time posting in this thread but after seeing the mtggoldfish videos and reading this whole post (44 pages is a lot ) I've thought on a build that at least to me seems very appealing but I would like to know what do you think about. Also I've some questions to throw at you guys so here we go.
I can see this list goldfihing a lot and tapping any of our one drop to cast copter/ walker/throne seems very appealing and favorable winds + hangarback walker seems like combo wombo, cause if they kill it, probably they will die and if not kill it you can sit on it or do some gross things.
The throne is the nut and in this deck is really gross
Anyways as I've said I've some questions:
1) in your lists you are not playing any kind of removal (besides walking ballista). Do you think a deck like this one would need it??
2) All your lists have 4 lodestone golem. Are they mandatory?? I see them really weak and easily removable so not sure if they worth it.
3) Not sure if use Siren Stormtamer or signal pest in this slot
4) there are more questions but I don't want to bore you so any help is very appreciated and welcome.
First time posting in this thread but after seeing the mtggoldfish videos and reading this whole post (44 pages is a lot ) I've thought on a build that at least to me seems very appealing but I would like to know what do you think about. Also I've some questions to throw at you guys so here we go.
I can see this list goldfihing a lot and tapping any of our one drop to cast copter/ walker/throne seems very appealing and favorable winds + hangarback walker seems like combo wombo, cause if they kill it, probably they will die and if not kill it you can sit on it or do some gross things.
The throne is the nut and in this deck is really gross
Anyways as I've said I've some questions:
1) in your lists you are not playing any kind of removal (besides walking ballista). Do you think a deck like this one would need it??
2) All your lists have 4 lodestone golem. Are they mandatory?? I see them really weak and easily removable so not sure if they worth it.
3) Not sure if use Siren Stormtamer or signal pest in this slot
4) there are more questions but I don't want to bore you so any help is very appreciated and welcome.
Lot of thanks.
Walking balista is kinda the best card so I can't imagine going down to 0.
Grats!
The main looks stock, more or less, so let me ask: what did you think of Superion, Orb and Fountain and would you increase the number of Rejections in the side, since Eldrazi is pain? Tnx.
I've been watching videos of this deck and seems really funny so I've bought the cards I don't own and I can't wait to sleeve them and begin to play with it ;).
I've chosen the Xantoo list ;), although there are some card that doesn't convince me.
Oboro, Palace in the clouds seems very expensive for what it's going to do. Beside of that I think a cavern of souls or two should be in there so I'm going to replace it and see how it works
the other cards that I'm not very sold on are the wurmcoil engines. I know we need a finisher so I'm looking for something better to replace them. If I find something would suggest it here.
On the other side I'm not sure about lodestone golem. In all the games I've seen in youtube its tax effect is almost irrelevant and only want them as a big beater. I think if they are in the list there must be a good reason but as I've said in lot of games the effect seems to be almost irrelevant. I'm going to try them and see what happens.
I've also have seen lists with master of etherium but also they seem to be an expensive 1/1 much of the time. I also don't know if they worthwhile.
Silent Arbiter could be an option in sideboard against heavy aggro ultra fast decks (i.e living end)? Kuldotha Forgemaster: to search for a singleton aberration like inkwell leviathan or something similar
and what about Spire Golem for a flying cheap creature ?
I collect Legendary cards (696 so far) so having random Oboro is nice (or at least I was collecting, gave up few days ago when Wizards decided to make Walkers into Legends, I will sell everything ). Oboro has some duties and does them well, I think it has a place in the deck.
Tried Cavern and it was dissapointing. Hands like Cavern, Nexus, Bird, 2-mana accelerator, Architect and bigger stuff (aka god hand if that was an Island) were common and it was annoying. Countermagic is bad when you start with a Bird. There are many Vedalkens but also Bird, Spirit and artifact creatures, too much to not make it awkward.
Usual replacements for Wurmcoil (in Path infested meta) are God-Pharaoh's Gift and Myr Battlesphere, maybe you can try that.
Lodestone is bad against cheap removal, but if opponent doesn't have it their gameplan comes to a halt. Wanderer into Architect into Golem means you are protected from a lot. Verdict might be uncounterable but they have to wait for fifth mana.
Living End probably has many problems with our deck: 8 "Cursecatchers" (Wanderer can be 2 power or more) that come back if it resolves, plus Lodestone is a complete beating. And this is all without Trinket for graveyard removal.
Kuldotha Forgemaster might be cool in Hangarback version but there are not that many useless artifacts in this deck, probably not worth it.
Anyway, Swords of "something and other" are nice in this deck, I was impressed everytime they resolved. They look nice as mana sink, give value to our dorks, make us not overcommit and they can be accelerated really fast. Anyone tried them?
@daviusminimus- I'm not telling that I'm not going to test the "standard list". In fact I've all the cards that I'm not sure about (golems and wurmcoils) but in all thew videos i've seen (and believe me, they are a lot) when the player have these cards usually : a) can't cast them b) doesn't impact on the game.
I'm not telling that I want to cut them, only asking if they worthwhile in your opinion. I'm playing MTG since revised so I've experience in this game also.
But I was wondering if is better, for example, to play the wurmcoils, or having the trinket mage + basilisk collar in the main deck
I was also suggesting cards that I think could help (at least in sideboard) to this archetype. In the videos I've seen (see youtube and look for this deck matches) there are a couple of games (i think saffronOlive was playing this deck) in which he is playing against living end and lose.
Also there was another game (I don't remember who was piloting the deck) in wich the opponent lands a stony silence and the player almost scoop.
I want to play this deck and make my own judgements and thinks what to cut and what to leave but meanwhile the cards arrive I can't do much testing (yes, i can proxy almost all the deck) but I prefer to wait a week and begin to play because I haven't so much time.
@daviusminimus- I'm not telling that I'm not going to test the "standard list". In fact I've all the cards that I'm not sure about (golems and wurmcoils) but in all thew videos i've seen (and believe me, they are a lot) when the player have these cards usually : a) can't cast them b) doesn't impact on the game.
I'm not telling that I want to cut them, only asking if they worthwhile in your opinion. I'm playing MTG since revised so I've experience in this game also.
But I was wondering if is better, for example, to play the wurmcoils, or having the trinket mage + basilisk collar in the main deck
I was also suggesting cards that I think could help (at least in sideboard) to this archetype. In the videos I've seen (see youtube and look for this deck matches) there are a couple of games (i think saffronOlive was playing this deck) in which he is playing against living end and lose despite having birds and golems (his opponent reach 7-8 lands so it was enough to pay al taxes).
Also there was another game (I don't remember who was piloting the deck) in wich the opponent lands a stony silence and the player almost scoop.
I want to play this deck and make my own judgements and thinks what to cut and what to leave but meanwhile the cards arrive I can't do much testing (yes, i can proxy almost all the deck) but I prefer to wait a week and begin to play because I haven't so much time.
We had a series of 8-mans at Nats sideevents and I lent this deck to a friend.
He never saw it before.
Quick 6-0 in games later (Foil Nexus and 2 boosters) and he is in love
Played 4 Siren instead of Owls today. They felt great in protecting Lodestone, Wurmcoil, and any attempts in equipping Swords on random dudes and trying to attack in spite of open mana and represented removal, were success.
Trashed UW Ctrl and Nahiri Ctrl with Lodestone-Thorn combo and Swords which enabled swift recovery from Verdict without overextending.
The only card I care from white decks is Stony Silence, Verdict is completely irrelevant.
Stony is the reason I side out Ballistas and Copters, leaving only Swords vulnerable.
Living End had no chance, something like my Merfolk vs Lantern. Spirit slows them down (maybe more if Architect is out), Copter can dump some dudes in the graveyard if needed, Lodestone protected by Siren is almost hard lock, Thorn is pain, Trinket for Chalice or Relic, it feels like pure nightmare.
Lost against Junk 1:2. Opponent was left at 2 life after I mulled and he cleaned my hand with discard. It is winnable matchup in general.
Has anyone thought about using Gauntlet of Power or Hall of Triumph? In some match ups, going all-in on an aggressive strategy is the best plan. The versions of Blue Steel that seem to focus on that mode of the deck seem to be best with Signal Pest and Master of Etherium for the extra lord effects. Unfortunately, those cards take up a lot of deck space and don't synergize very well with the rest of the deck. Pest is awkward with Grand Architect and can't crew Smuggler's Copter without help. Master, on the other hand, often doesn't do much. Our early game consists of mostly birds and non-artifacts which don't give any benefit nor receive any from the lord.
The Gauntlet and Hall, on the other hand, pump nearly all of our early drops. They can function as an additional Throne of the God-Pharaoh, albeit at an increased cost. The Gauntlet might also allow some really explosive plays with Walking Ballista.
Elves is rough, but ballista may get there, unless they have the turn 2 lord draw, which they will have often, unfortunately. It is part of the reason i keep a torpor orb in my sideboard. With no value from elvish visionary, dwynen's elite and no devastating shaman of the pack plays, the deck is far more manageable.
Went 4-0 and 4-1 in recent modern FNMs. Won against Affinity both times, 2-0 and 2-1. Once you got a feel for it the deck just crushes. Concerning the sideboard I strongly recommend Spellskite. The 1 loss was a 0-2 to Elves, Matchup is propably 15/85.
I mixed a bunch of lists from this thread and some Elsik updates and my own ideas and I think it's close to where I want it to be, but I'm always looking to make it better. Great feedback in this thread so far. Let's keep it up!
Batterskull has been great, can come down early and can both grind AND is great vs aggro. Lots of value in using extra mana to equip it.
Shackles i haven't drawn a lot. It is supposed to help a bit vs tough creature matchups.
Sideboard is a bit all over the place, i put as many high impact stuff as i could. Torpor orb has been also good vs creature decks. Not sure about trading post because of stony but the value is real. Walker has been a great trinket mage target vs grixis shadow/non path midrange decks, highly recommend one.
I still love pests. They just win me so much games, i still like them better than the bird.
Worth a try. Not taking into account the planeswalker shutdown line, all other abilities seem decent enough to be worth a x1 slot and 6 mana. And the pw hosing seems great vs tron and a bunch of other randomly harder matchups (lili decks, control decks with pw win cons).
Maybe we need more tutors to assemble Ballista + Collar asap, to shoot all those creatures. More Trinket Mages in the main comes to mind.
Other than that we could introduce Dismembers, we ignored other creatures for too long. Baral, Devoted Druid, Elvish Archdruid, etc just need to die.
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This seems ok?
Edit: beat me to it haha
Stony Silence is the bigger problem.
I wouldn't waste time on Hope, it is one colorless mana for a reason.
First time posting in this thread but after seeing the mtggoldfish videos and reading this whole post (44 pages is a lot
The list I'm thinking about is:
4 judge's Familiar
4 Siren Stormtamer
4 hangarback walker
4 favorable winds
4 chief engineer
4 etherium sculptor
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Throne of the God-Pharaoh
4 grand architect
1 God-Pharaoh's Gift
12 Island
4 Faerie conclave
4 Ghost Quarter
I can see this list goldfihing a lot and tapping any of our one drop to cast copter/ walker/throne seems very appealing and favorable winds + hangarback walker seems like combo wombo, cause if they kill it, probably they will die and if not kill it you can sit on it or do some gross things.
The throne is the nut and in this deck is really gross
Anyways as I've said I've some questions:
1) in your lists you are not playing any kind of removal (besides walking ballista). Do you think a deck like this one would need it??
2) All your lists have 4 lodestone golem. Are they mandatory?? I see them really weak and easily removable so not sure if they worth it.
3) Not sure if use Siren Stormtamer or signal pest in this slot
4) there are more questions but I don't want to bore you so any help is very appreciated and welcome.
Lot of thanks.
Walking balista is kinda the best card so I can't imagine going down to 0.
Please could you share your actual list??
The main looks stock, more or less, so let me ask: what did you think of Superion, Orb and Fountain and would you increase the number of Rejections in the side, since Eldrazi is pain? Tnx.
I've chosen the Xantoo list ;), although there are some card that doesn't convince me.
Oboro, Palace in the clouds seems very expensive for what it's going to do. Beside of that I think a cavern of souls or two should be in there so I'm going to replace it and see how it works
the other cards that I'm not very sold on are the wurmcoil engines. I know we need a finisher so I'm looking for something better to replace them. If I find something would suggest it here.
On the other side I'm not sure about lodestone golem. In all the games I've seen in youtube its tax effect is almost irrelevant and only want them as a big beater. I think if they are in the list there must be a good reason but as I've said in lot of games the effect seems to be almost irrelevant. I'm going to try them and see what happens.
I've also have seen lists with master of etherium but also they seem to be an expensive 1/1 much of the time. I also don't know if they worthwhile.
Silent Arbiter could be an option in sideboard against heavy aggro ultra fast decks (i.e living end)?
Kuldotha Forgemaster: to search for a singleton aberration like inkwell leviathan or something similar
and what about Spire Golem for a flying cheap creature ?
What do you think??
Tried Cavern and it was dissapointing. Hands like Cavern, Nexus, Bird, 2-mana accelerator, Architect and bigger stuff (aka god hand if that was an Island) were common and it was annoying. Countermagic is bad when you start with a Bird. There are many Vedalkens but also Bird, Spirit and artifact creatures, too much to not make it awkward.
Usual replacements for Wurmcoil (in Path infested meta) are God-Pharaoh's Gift and Myr Battlesphere, maybe you can try that.
Lodestone is bad against cheap removal, but if opponent doesn't have it their gameplan comes to a halt. Wanderer into Architect into Golem means you are protected from a lot. Verdict might be uncounterable but they have to wait for fifth mana.
Living End probably has many problems with our deck: 8 "Cursecatchers" (Wanderer can be 2 power or more) that come back if it resolves, plus Lodestone is a complete beating. And this is all without Trinket for graveyard removal.
Kuldotha Forgemaster might be cool in Hangarback version but there are not that many useless artifacts in this deck, probably not worth it.
Anyway, Swords of "something and other" are nice in this deck, I was impressed everytime they resolved. They look nice as mana sink, give value to our dorks, make us not overcommit and they can be accelerated really fast. Anyone tried them?
I'm not telling that I want to cut them, only asking if they worthwhile in your opinion. I'm playing MTG since revised so I've experience in this game also.
But I was wondering if is better, for example, to play the wurmcoils, or having the trinket mage + basilisk collar in the main deck
I was also suggesting cards that I think could help (at least in sideboard) to this archetype. In the videos I've seen (see youtube and look for this deck matches) there are a couple of games (i think saffronOlive was playing this deck) in which he is playing against living end and lose.
Also there was another game (I don't remember who was piloting the deck) in wich the opponent lands a stony silence and the player almost scoop.
I want to play this deck and make my own judgements and thinks what to cut and what to leave but meanwhile the cards arrive I can't do much testing (yes, i can proxy almost all the deck) but I prefer to wait a week and begin to play because I haven't so much time.
I'm not telling that I want to cut them, only asking if they worthwhile in your opinion. I'm playing MTG since revised so I've experience in this game also.
But I was wondering if is better, for example, to play the wurmcoils, or having the trinket mage + basilisk collar in the main deck
I was also suggesting cards that I think could help (at least in sideboard) to this archetype. In the videos I've seen (see youtube and look for this deck matches) there are a couple of games (i think saffronOlive was playing this deck) in which he is playing against living end and lose despite having birds and golems (his opponent reach 7-8 lands so it was enough to pay al taxes).
Also there was another game (I don't remember who was piloting the deck) in wich the opponent lands a stony silence and the player almost scoop.
I want to play this deck and make my own judgements and thinks what to cut and what to leave but meanwhile the cards arrive I can't do much testing (yes, i can proxy almost all the deck) but I prefer to wait a week and begin to play because I haven't so much time.
He never saw it before.
Quick 6-0 in games later (Foil Nexus and 2 boosters) and he is in love
Trashed UW Ctrl and Nahiri Ctrl with Lodestone-Thorn combo and Swords which enabled swift recovery from Verdict without overextending.
The only card I care from white decks is Stony Silence, Verdict is completely irrelevant.
Stony is the reason I side out Ballistas and Copters, leaving only Swords vulnerable.
Living End had no chance, something like my Merfolk vs Lantern. Spirit slows them down (maybe more if Architect is out), Copter can dump some dudes in the graveyard if needed, Lodestone protected by Siren is almost hard lock, Thorn is pain, Trinket for Chalice or Relic, it feels like pure nightmare.
Lost against Junk 1:2. Opponent was left at 2 life after I mulled and he cleaned my hand with discard. It is winnable matchup in general.
Love this deck.
The Gauntlet and Hall, on the other hand, pump nearly all of our early drops. They can function as an additional Throne of the God-Pharaoh, albeit at an increased cost. The Gauntlet might also allow some really explosive plays with Walking Ballista.
List please
Check it out if you like Blue Steel as much as I do: http://www.numotgaming.com/budgety-modern-blue-steel/
I mixed a bunch of lists from this thread and some Elsik updates and my own ideas and I think it's close to where I want it to be, but I'm always looking to make it better. Great feedback in this thread so far. Let's keep it up!
4 mausoleum wanderer
4 signal pest
4 chief engineer
4 etherium sculptor
4 walking ballista
4 grand architect
2 master of etherium
4 lodestone golem
4 smuggler's copter
1 throne of the god-pharaoh
1 vedalken shackles
1 batterskull
1 god-pharaoh's gift
lands: 22
4 blinkmoth nexus
1 academy ruins
17 island
1 hangarback walker
1 basilisk collar
1 pithing needle
1 relic of progenitus
1 grafdigger's cage
2 trinket mage
2 thorn of amethyst
1 torpor orb
1 trading post
1 mindlock orb
1 orbs of warding
2 echoing truth
Batterskull has been great, can come down early and can both grind AND is great vs aggro. Lots of value in using extra mana to equip it.
Shackles i haven't drawn a lot. It is supposed to help a bit vs tough creature matchups.
Sideboard is a bit all over the place, i put as many high impact stuff as i could. Torpor orb has been also good vs creature decks. Not sure about trading post because of stony but the value is real. Walker has been a great trinket mage target vs grixis shadow/non path midrange decks, highly recommend one.
I still love pests. They just win me so much games, i still like them better than the bird.
Worth a try. Not taking into account the planeswalker shutdown line, all other abilities seem decent enough to be worth a x1 slot and 6 mana. And the pw hosing seems great vs tron and a bunch of other randomly harder matchups (lili decks, control decks with pw win cons).
I'll be testing it when it comes out!
Other than that we could introduce Dismembers, we ignored other creatures for too long. Baral, Devoted Druid, Elvish Archdruid, etc just need to die.