I got to agree with Dennis, Slumbering Dragon is terrible. But overall not a bad list.
Bloodhall Ooze is somewhat here supported. Even with just a hardened scales out, he gets you 2 +1/+1 counters a turn which is solid. With a Constrictor he gets nuts.
Rakdos Cackler I would try dumping in over Slumbering Dragon. Becomes effectively a Wild Nacatl in a deck like this.
Overgrown Tomb Counts as a Black and Green permanent at the same time? Would the Bloodhall Ooze get 4x +1/+1 Counters if there's a Hardened Scales or a Winding Constrictor on the battlefield? If both cards are up, would it get 6x +1/+1 Counters instead?
Slumbering Dragon is out. Got it. I'll replace it for 2 spells. There's already 26 Creatures.
Has anyone played with Walking Ballista yet? I think it could be a nice way to give the deck interaction, reach, and a mana sink without diluting the threat count.
The deck has so many essential cards in green -- IMO it's not worth warping a (relatively painless) Gb deck into a something sufficiently tri-colored to support bloodhall Ooze. The card isn't so much better than the green cards it would replace to be worth it. Grim Flayer also doesn't support the counter theme and you will never turn on Delerium in this deck.
With that said if I were to splash a third color Oath of Ajani might be worth splashing white for.
Played 12 games over last 24 hours with deck on MTGO against less competative decks (though Eldrazi and 8-rack were sprinkled in there.)
-Narnam Renegade was incredibly valuable. Even as a 1/2 drop with deathtouch created difficult matchups.
-Greenwheel Liberator was the weakest card. Hard to Revolt, which made it terrible.
Had three losses. One to a saproling deck that went wide, a treefolk tribal deck that just got too big, and some type of collective Naya.
The other 9 games were wins against some of the following: mono-white humans, mono-blue control, 8-rack, blue Eldrazi tron, green tron, mono-black discard, burn with bloodmoon. Most of these decks I could race and take a quick win. The losses were usually against decks that could survive long enough to drop larger threats.
What I liked: The speed and size of my creatures. The deathtouch on Renegade was noticeable. Lightning bolt would take care of pesky threats, and finish off opponent to dome. It is hard to put resources protecting the board, and get finished by a bolt to the head.
What I felt I needed: Adding counters to the creatures that were already there. Obviously when you get to turn 5 and 6, the gas starts running out. Sometimes you need to drop creatures without gaining +1/+1 counters on them to maintain board presence. Nissa, Voice of Zendiker I will have to try, though I am skeptical, since we don't have much interaction and I think it would be a win more card. Oath of Ajani and dromoka's command might be key, as well as lightning helix. Not sure if I want to go Naya, but I will try.
Tested decklist below. Spellbomb was just a quick add to sideboard before testing incase I saw a lot of graveyard decks, will replace with something else.
Alright so, here's the deck that I put together about 2 weeks ago. This is my first version of the deck. I was plowing through the meta with it but I was struggling against Bant Eldrazi and some other midrange decks a bit (Jund/Abzan).
The thing I liked the most out of the deck was the ability to kill your opponent with walking ballista and not having to attack. Lothleth troll and Slitherhead worked wonders in this deck but ultimately, it required me to attack and expend a lot of resources early that I didn't like doing in the midrange matchups.
That being said, I tweaked the deck more towards the combo kills with the aggo still in the deck. This allowed me to play the early turns a little less aggressively and play the late game with a combo kill or just let me combo kill from the start if the matchup would let me.
The sideboard is a litte weird I know but, In most of the matchups, these were the only things I needed for the wins. I didn't want to dilute the deck's main purpose after sideboarding too much so these cards were ment for simple swap outs.
Infect:
-4 Winding Constrictor
+4 Tarmogoyf
I didn't want constrictor in the deck anymore as he is more of a liability than a threat.
Jund:
-3 Slitherhead
-1 Arcbound Ravager
+4 Lingering Souls
In this matchup, combos weren't going to win me the game. They take enough damage on their own that a late game Ballista topdeck could usually win it for me.
Abzan:
-3 Slitherhead
-4 Lotleth Troll
-1 Arcbound Ravager
+4 lingering Souls
+4 Tarmogoyf
With path being prevalent in this match up, lotleth troll looses some value because of his regenerate clause. I wanted him out and Tarmogoyfs in.
Tron:
-3 Fatal Push
+3 Thoughtseize
This is just obvious. I need to buy time so my creatures can do enough damage before Karn comes down so Baliistas can just win.
Jeskai Control:
-3 Fatal Push
-3 Sltherhead
-4 Lotleth Troll
+4 Tarmogoyf
+3 Thoughtseize
+3 Lingering Souls
Lingering Souls and Tarmogoyfs are just hard for their bolts to answer and fatal push isn't as good in this matchup as Thoughtseize.
Abzan CoCo
-2 Slitherhead
+2 Anafenza, the Foremost
Pretty simple. Just looking for ways to disrupt their combo.
Bant Eldrazi
-2 Slitherhead
+2 Spellskite
Anything to keep them from blinking my creatures with Eldrazi Displacer. Also, this matchup is the reason I was running 1 Vault of the Archangel. Just activating it and shooting all their creatures for 1 with Ballista was game changing.
With the new deck, I haven't really gotten to play to fully understand the sideboarding yet but once I do, I will make some changes and post about it. I know theres more deck that I could post sideboards against but to be completely honest, I was rarely changing the main deck against a lot of my opponents. I was crushing them game 1 and didn't really have a reason to change much of the cards.
I tested against Zoo and was pretty 50/50. I just needed a turn 1 play every time or else the game could get out of control for me but, Dromoka's Command was insane here. I also tested against Fish and this matchup was a joke. I was somewhere around 90% +/- against them. Dromoka's Command and Ballista just annihilated this matchup. Burn was another 50/50 matchup pre-board and about 45/55 post-board. not great but not terrible. Destructive revelry is really good against me but eidolon of the great revel is pretty weak against the deck (again Dromoka's Command is insane in this matchup).
Hope you guys liked the decks and don't rip me to shreds for not playing the Experiment One version.
In this list there are 8 BG creatures so ooze is going to grow really fast.
Also almost all your creatures have some kind of evasion (trample, Deathtouch, etc) and cna become big really fast.
With rishkar you can use your unuseful dudes to ramp mana and put into play the winning gearhulk
Also the managorger Hydra grows really fast in this deck and if well timed it survives bolts like a champ (turn 1 hardened, turn 2 snake, turn 3 hydra and if you lightning it, it becomes a 4/4 on the spot)
The Trolls can grow with the gearhulks you draw in the opening hands Or another unuseful cards while feeding the Ooze too.
This is my current build and it has lot of Synergy inside.
I like the Simic Initiate idea ;). I was testing servant of the scale but this guy seems better because you are putting the counters when you want. The issue here is that the opponent will respond bolting your hidra in response of the graft so at this moment the hydra would be a 3/3 (assuming snake or scales are on board) so he have a little window to respond. Would be necessary to include any cheap/free spell like mutagenic growth to save your guys??
That looks like a lot of fun, Gen0syde86, I can imagine a looot of interesting lines of play there compared to your average aggro deck. I was trying to think of some ways to build more around Walking Ballista a few weeks ago and you took it to the next step with the modular subtheme.. and then the next step and the next to finally land on this interactive combo list that can ... and Traverse is such a neat little cherry on top. Thanks for sharing!
That looks like a lot of fun, Gen0syde86, I can imagine a looot of interesting lines of play there compared to your average aggro deck. I was trying to think of some ways to build more around Walking Ballista a few weeks ago and you took it to the next step with the modular subtheme.. and then the next step and the next to finally land on this interactive combo list that can ... and Traverse is such a neat little cherry on top. Thanks for sharing!
Yea Traverse takes the deck to the next level. Theres a lot of games where you can just stall out and Traverse helps you get the rest of the combo and just walking ballista your opponent to death.
The only cards I want to remove from the deck are the Anafenzas from the sideboard. They are good but probably not good enough. I kind of want an artifact removal in the board. something to get rid of Pithing needle. Maybe something like a Qasali Pridemage or naturalize or natural state
I'm going to test your GROBOTS list because it has something appealing ;).
I'm also considering adding a single cavern of souls (because you have 12 constructs there) and can help against heavy counter decks with the traverse the ulvenwald.
Something I don't like there are the dark confidants (although the average cmc of the decks is low). I think they are out of the theme. Instead I'm going to include some tireless Tracker that provides food for the ravager also and grow with +1/+1 counters so it's another threat to be aware of. Clues will feed the ravager and make ravager aand tracker grows while providing card advantage in the middle-lategame
Also I'm going to replace tarmogoyfs in sideboard. I don't think they belongs to the deck and has no synergy with the rest of cards. I want to play managorger hydra or Verdurous Gearhulk there because they are the real deal so perhaps I would include one MD to be searched with traverse and the rest on sideboard. The Hydra grows fast as hell and the construct (yes, gearhulk is also a construct ) can pump all your dudes making real disasters on the table and if casted alone is a 8/8 trample for 5 which is not bad also.
Also Steel Overseer is a construct so could it be playable here??
I'm going to test your GROBOTS list because it has something appealing ;).
I'm also considering adding a single cavern of souls (because you have 12 constructs there) and can help against heavy counter decks with the traverse the ulvenwald.
Something I don't like there are the dark confidants (although the average cmc of the decks is low). I think they are out of the theme. Instead I'm going to include some tireless Tracker that provides food for the ravager also and grow with +1/+1 counters so it's another threat to be aware of. Clues will feed the ravager and make ravager aand tracker grows while providing card advantage in the middle-lategame
Also I'm going to replace tarmogoyfs in sideboard. I don't think they belongs to the deck and has no synergy with the rest of cards. I want to play managorger hydra or Verdurous Gearhulk there because they are the real deal so perhaps I would include one MD to be searched with traverse and the rest on sideboard. The Hydra grows fast as hell and the construct (yes, gearhulk is also a construct ) can pump all your dudes making real disasters on the table and if casted alone is a 8/8 trample for 5 which is not bad also.
Also Steel Overseer is a construct so could it be playable here??
What do you think?
I'm testing 2x tireless trackers and 1x nissa, voice of zendikar today instead of the bobs. I dont mind the managorgers instead of the goyfs but, the goys are in the board to replace the constrictors in the infect match up. the constrictors are not the greatest in that matchup and i feel like they need to come out and goyf does a pretty good job of helping to race.
But you already have spellskite in SDB to combat infect, so I probably include a third copy if you are worried about that.
The gorgers are slower than goyf (cost three) but easily in a couple of turns they outgrow goyfs and have trample built in, so I think they are more useful in general.
But you already have spellskite in SDB to combat infect, so I probably include a third copy if you are worried about that.
The gorgers are slower than goyf (cost three) but easily in a couple of turns they outgrow goyfs and have trample built in, so I think they are more useful in general.
Gearhulk is too slow. I like the idea of it but it just can't be powered out fast enough to be meaningful and the deck only has 20 lands
Like I said before, I just like the goyfs because they are fast and I'm able to take out the constrictors. I'm not saying they are best but they are definitely good enough for now.
That list look really exciting, I was wondering if there's any way to do it on a bit of a budget? Specifically, I don't really want to shell out $120 for Arcbound Ravagers. I figure since I'm cutting them I swap the Arcbound Workers out for Servant of the Scale, which is functionally the same. But what about the Ravagers themselves? Maybe up the Scooze count to 3-4 and then put in Avatar of the Resolute as a payoff card, a la more traditional stompy? Or would it be better to keep the Arcbound theme and put in a weaker creature (probably Arcbound Stinger)?
That list look really exciting, I was wondering if there's any way to do it on a bit of a budget? Specifically, I don't really want to shell out $120 for Arcbound Ravagers. I figure since I'm cutting them I swap the Arcbound Workers out for Servant of the Scale, which is functionally the same. But what about the Ravagers themselves? Maybe up the Scooze count to 3-4 and then put in Avatar of the Resolute as a payoff card, a la more traditional stompy? Or would it be better to keep the Arcbound theme and put in a weaker creature (probably Arcbound Stinger)?
initially i had lotleth troll and slitherhead in the deck and it was super good. i would recommend starting there and swapping some things around.
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2 Slumbering Dragon
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Greenwheel Liberator
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Winding Constrictor
3 Fatal Push
2 Hardened Scales
2 Rancor
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Llanowar Reborn
2 Forest
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
*** Slumbering Dragon and Bloodhall Ooze could make the deck less Hardened Scales and Winding Constrictor dependent?
* Replaced 2 Greenwheel Liberator and 2 Rishkar for 4 Scavenging Ooze.
* 12 Fetches to support 10 Cards with Revolt.
* Included 2 Llanowar Reborn.
Comments?
I got to agree with Dennis, Slumbering Dragon is terrible. But overall not a bad list.
Bloodhall Ooze is somewhat here supported. Even with just a hardened scales out, he gets you 2 +1/+1 counters a turn which is solid. With a Constrictor he gets nuts.
Rakdos Cackler I would try dumping in over Slumbering Dragon. Becomes effectively a Wild Nacatl in a deck like this.
Slumbering Dragon is out. Got it. I'll replace it for 2 spells. There's already 26 Creatures.
I'm also working on a similar deck, it is G/U and based on evolve/undying creatures and the "combo" with Pongify/Rapid Hybridization.
Here - http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/678978-simic-scales-undying-evolution?page=2
Grim Flayer and Kin-tree Invocation are my suggestions. What do you think?
With that said if I were to splash a third color Oath of Ajani might be worth splashing white for.
-Narnam Renegade was incredibly valuable. Even as a 1/2 drop with deathtouch created difficult matchups.
-Greenwheel Liberator was the weakest card. Hard to Revolt, which made it terrible.
Had three losses. One to a saproling deck that went wide, a treefolk tribal deck that just got too big, and some type of collective Naya.
The other 9 games were wins against some of the following: mono-white humans, mono-blue control, 8-rack, blue Eldrazi tron, green tron, mono-black discard, burn with bloodmoon. Most of these decks I could race and take a quick win. The losses were usually against decks that could survive long enough to drop larger threats.
What I liked: The speed and size of my creatures. The deathtouch on Renegade was noticeable. Lightning bolt would take care of pesky threats, and finish off opponent to dome. It is hard to put resources protecting the board, and get finished by a bolt to the head.
What I felt I needed: Adding counters to the creatures that were already there. Obviously when you get to turn 5 and 6, the gas starts running out. Sometimes you need to drop creatures without gaining +1/+1 counters on them to maintain board presence. Nissa, Voice of Zendiker I will have to try, though I am skeptical, since we don't have much interaction and I think it would be a win more card. Oath of Ajani and dromoka's command might be key, as well as lightning helix. Not sure if I want to go Naya, but I will try.
Tested decklist below. Spellbomb was just a quick add to sideboard before testing incase I saw a lot of graveyard decks, will replace with something else.
5 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
1 Stomping Ground
2 Rakdos Cackler
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Experiment One
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Rancor
4 Hardened Scales
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Avatar of the Resolute
3 Vines of Vastwood
2 Greenwheel Liberator
1 Llanowar Reborn
2 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Mutant's Prey
1 Dismember
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Blossoming Defense
2 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Mutant's Prey
1 Dodecapod
1 Spike Feeder
2 Natural State
1 Volt Charge
What do you guys think of that list?
2 Walking Ballista
4 Experiment One
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Avatar of the Resolute
2 Greenwheel Liberator
4 Scavenging Ooze
4 Winding Constrictor
2 Managorger Hydra
4 Fatal Push
3 Hardened Scales
2 Dromoka's Command
3 Oath of Ajani
2 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
Lands:20
4 Forest
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
There's a balance between providing Counters (7), Increasing how many Counters your creatures receive (7) and Removals (8).
Modern Tallowisp Spirits - A Modern Tallowisp Deck UW
Eldrazi Ninjas - Summoning Octopus Jutsu YYYYAAAHHHH!
STANDARD
Naban Wizards
4 walking ballista
4 hangarback walker
4 lotleth troll
1 arcbound ravager
3 dark confidant
3 slitherhead
4 winding constrictor
4 birds of paradise
2 scavenging ooze
Enchantments
4 hardened scales
Instants
3 fatal push
4 dromoka's command
4 verdant catacombs
2 windswept heath
2 marsh flats
1 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 forest
1 plains
1 swamp
4 blooming marsh
1 gavony township
1 vault of the archangel
4 lingering souls
4 tarmogoyf
2 anafenza, the foremost
2 spellskite
3 thoughtseize
The thing I liked the most out of the deck was the ability to kill your opponent with walking ballista and not having to attack. Lothleth troll and Slitherhead worked wonders in this deck but ultimately, it required me to attack and expend a lot of resources early that I didn't like doing in the midrange matchups.
That being said, I tweaked the deck more towards the combo kills with the aggo still in the deck. This allowed me to play the early turns a little less aggressively and play the late game with a combo kill or just let me combo kill from the start if the matchup would let me.
Here is the altered version of my deck
4 walking ballista
4 hangarback walker
4 arcbound worker
4 arcbound ravager
3 dark confidant
4 winding constrictor
2 scavenging ooze
Enchantments
4 hardened scales
Instants
3 fatal push
4 dromoka's command
Sorceries
4 Traverse the ulvenwald
4 verdant catacombs
2 windswept heath
2 marsh flats
1 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 temple garden
1 forest
1 plains
1 swamp
4 blooming marsh
2 gavony township
4 lingering souls
4 tarmogoyf
2 anafenza, the foremost
2 spellskite
3 thoughtseize
The sideboard is a litte weird I know but, In most of the matchups, these were the only things I needed for the wins. I didn't want to dilute the deck's main purpose after sideboarding too much so these cards were ment for simple swap outs.
Infect:
-4 Winding Constrictor
+4 Tarmogoyf
I didn't want constrictor in the deck anymore as he is more of a liability than a threat.
Jund:
-3 Slitherhead
-1 Arcbound Ravager
+4 Lingering Souls
In this matchup, combos weren't going to win me the game. They take enough damage on their own that a late game Ballista topdeck could usually win it for me.
Abzan:
-3 Slitherhead
-4 Lotleth Troll
-1 Arcbound Ravager
+4 lingering Souls
+4 Tarmogoyf
With path being prevalent in this match up, lotleth troll looses some value because of his regenerate clause. I wanted him out and Tarmogoyfs in.
Tron:
-3 Fatal Push
+3 Thoughtseize
This is just obvious. I need to buy time so my creatures can do enough damage before Karn comes down so Baliistas can just win.
Jeskai Control:
-3 Fatal Push
-3 Sltherhead
-4 Lotleth Troll
+4 Tarmogoyf
+3 Thoughtseize
+3 Lingering Souls
Lingering Souls and Tarmogoyfs are just hard for their bolts to answer and fatal push isn't as good in this matchup as Thoughtseize.
Abzan CoCo
-2 Slitherhead
+2 Anafenza, the Foremost
Pretty simple. Just looking for ways to disrupt their combo.
Bant Eldrazi
-2 Slitherhead
+2 Spellskite
Anything to keep them from blinking my creatures with Eldrazi Displacer. Also, this matchup is the reason I was running 1 Vault of the Archangel. Just activating it and shooting all their creatures for 1 with Ballista was game changing.
With the new deck, I haven't really gotten to play to fully understand the sideboarding yet but once I do, I will make some changes and post about it. I know theres more deck that I could post sideboards against but to be completely honest, I was rarely changing the main deck against a lot of my opponents. I was crushing them game 1 and didn't really have a reason to change much of the cards.
I tested against Zoo and was pretty 50/50. I just needed a turn 1 play every time or else the game could get out of control for me but, Dromoka's Command was insane here. I also tested against Fish and this matchup was a joke. I was somewhere around 90% +/- against them. Dromoka's Command and Ballista just annihilated this matchup. Burn was another 50/50 matchup pre-board and about 45/55 post-board. not great but not terrible. Destructive revelry is really good against me but eidolon of the great revel is pretty weak against the deck (again Dromoka's Command is insane in this matchup).
Hope you guys liked the decks and don't rip me to shreds for not playing the Experiment One version.
4 Bloodhall Ooze
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Winding Constrictor
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Scavenging Ooze
3 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
4 Managorger Hydra
4 Verdurous Gearhulk
4 Fatal Push
4 lightning Bolt
Enchantments
4 Hardened Scales
Lands
2 Llanowar Reborn
2 Forest
4 Blooming marsh
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Misty Rainforest
In this list there are 8 BG creatures so ooze is going to grow really fast.
Also almost all your creatures have some kind of evasion (trample, Deathtouch, etc) and cna become big really fast.
With rishkar you can use your unuseful dudes to ramp mana and put into play the winning gearhulk
Also the managorger Hydra grows really fast in this deck and if well timed it survives bolts like a champ (turn 1 hardened, turn 2 snake, turn 3 hydra and if you lightning it, it becomes a 4/4 on the spot)
The Trolls can grow with the gearhulks you draw in the opening hands Or another unuseful cards while feeding the Ooze too.
This is my current build and it has lot of Synergy inside.
What do you think guys?
Yea that is my list. He asked me if he could post about it. He was helping me out a lot witht he deck when i first started making it.
Yea Traverse takes the deck to the next level. Theres a lot of games where you can just stall out and Traverse helps you get the rest of the combo and just walking ballista your opponent to death.
The only cards I want to remove from the deck are the Anafenzas from the sideboard. They are good but probably not good enough. I kind of want an artifact removal in the board. something to get rid of Pithing needle. Maybe something like a Qasali Pridemage or naturalize or natural state
I'm also considering adding a single cavern of souls (because you have 12 constructs there) and can help against heavy counter decks with the traverse the ulvenwald.
Something I don't like there are the dark confidants (although the average cmc of the decks is low). I think they are out of the theme. Instead I'm going to include some tireless Tracker that provides food for the ravager also and grow with +1/+1 counters so it's another threat to be aware of. Clues will feed the ravager and make ravager aand tracker grows while providing card advantage in the middle-lategame
Also I'm going to replace tarmogoyfs in sideboard. I don't think they belongs to the deck and has no synergy with the rest of cards. I want to play managorger hydra or Verdurous Gearhulk there because they are the real deal so perhaps I would include one MD to be searched with traverse and the rest on sideboard. The Hydra grows fast as hell and the construct (yes, gearhulk is also a construct ) can pump all your dudes making real disasters on the table and if casted alone is a 8/8 trample for 5 which is not bad also.
Also Steel Overseer is a construct so could it be playable here??
What do you think?
I'm testing 2x tireless trackers and 1x nissa, voice of zendikar today instead of the bobs. I dont mind the managorgers instead of the goyfs but, the goys are in the board to replace the constrictors in the infect match up. the constrictors are not the greatest in that matchup and i feel like they need to come out and goyf does a pretty good job of helping to race.
The gorgers are slower than goyf (cost three) but easily in a couple of turns they outgrow goyfs and have trample built in, so I think they are more useful in general.
What about the verdurous gearhulk?? Is it very slow to modern (because we have no ramp)?? Perhaps Rishkar, Peema renegade could be included also??
Gearhulk is too slow. I like the idea of it but it just can't be powered out fast enough to be meaningful and the deck only has 20 lands
Like I said before, I just like the goyfs because they are fast and I'm able to take out the constrictors. I'm not saying they are best but they are definitely good enough for now.
initially i had lotleth troll and slitherhead in the deck and it was super good. i would recommend starting there and swapping some things around.