Went to a 1k this Saturday and had a decent record overall (3-2). Didn't manage to make T8 due to a few mistakes and what I feel was either not understanding the matchup or just being paired against decks that inherently attack our decks weaknesses. Interestingly, I had the opportunity to disrupting shoal a 4 mana Gideon while tapped out and it completely went over my head. Shortly after resolving, it took over the game due to my lack of board presence. I wasn't quite sure if it was correct to leave in shoal against UWR, but I figured I'd have enough targets in lightning bolt and path to exile that it would be worth it. Was pointed out to me by a judge shortly after the game and I beat myself up for it. We live and learn I guess.
I faced 2 UWx control decks one of which was more creature oriented with flash spells, 2 Grixis Shadow, and UB control with spreading seas and field of ruin. I felt that the shadow matchup is easily understood and likely in our favour since we can overwhelm them with paths and goyfs, however, UW and UB control (not the geist version) seem to be problematic in my experience. Even during testing on cockatrice I have had trouble keeping up with a resolved Gideon of the trials followed by verdict. All that in addition to their LD package seems like an inevitable loss for us. I've been experimenting with surgical extraction and engineered explosives against the Gideon versions to blow up potential d spheres and Gideon and surgical to rid them of verdict.
The UB control deck seems like a worse version where you can keep counter magic in to stop damnation from resolving and pretty much win from there.
Is this thread dead rn?
UW Control is very tough for us to beat. UB is a lot easier; Fatal Push is kind of annoying but not nearly as bad as Trials/Verdict, and it's hard for UB to ever deal with Mandrills. Gotta keep Scour vs Storm btw or you will never resolve Mandrills. Cut two Goyfs on the draw and two Sleights on the play (OTP you will have a window to resolve Goyf before you need to represent mana).
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
UW Control is very tough for us to beat. UB is a lot easier; Fatal Push is kind of annoying but not nearly as bad as Trials/Verdict, and it's hard for UB to ever deal with Mandrills. Gotta keep Scour vs Storm btw or you will never resolve Mandrills. Cut two Goyfs on the draw and two Sleights on the play (OTP you will have a window to resolve Goyf before you need to represent mana).
Is UWR any better since it usually doesn't run verdict and Gideon in exchange for queller, etc.?
As for storm, that makes a lot of sense actually. Didn't even think about it. I remember you replying to somebody stating that sleight of hand was taken out in 0 of our matchups, but that might have been before storm was a thing and also might have been before the probe banning. But I am not 100% sure lol. Taking out goyf seems strange because he is just so efficient, but it makes sense when the opponent can untap and murder you.
Against UB control, would keeping in countermagic be ill-advised? Keep in mind that I've seen ub control decks start to transiting towards the spreading seas/FoR package with a plethora of planeswalkers for value. Does the theoretical presence of liliana make permission too much of a liability?
Against Affinity, I've been trying out a configuration like this:
Out:
-4 Wild Nacatl
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 Thought Scour
-2 Mana Leak
In:
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Engineered Explosives
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Pyroclasm
I've felt like disrupting shoal has been a great card to break up their synergies, I'm just not dogmatic about it's inclusion post board. It feels right to take out nacatl, but on paper I feel like chart a course isn't reliably turned on in this matchup with a lack of offense. Also, in my opinion, staying ahead of affinity in CA is integral to winning the matchup so the inclusion of chart a course and taking a controlling role seems correct, but I wanted to clarify. Anyways, my problems with this matchup include etched champions, man-lands and certain sideboard cards. Maybe I'm getting unlucky, who knows, but I feel like "rest in peace" is a common sideboard card due to the prevalence of storm now and it inherently attacks a large portion of our decks gameplan. In addition, removal in the form of dispatch can be quite annoying. I've found engineered explosives to either be an all star removal spell/sweeper or too slow and have been wanting a second copy of AG occasionally. If humans takes a step back, can you foresee a transition back to 2 copies?
Against Affinity, I've been trying out a configuration like this:
Out:
-4 Wild Nacatl
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 Thought Scour
-2 Mana Leak
In:
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Engineered Explosives
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Pyroclasm
I've felt like disrupting shoal has been a great card to break up their synergies, I'm just not dogmatic about it's inclusion post board. It feels right to take out nacatl, but on paper I feel like chart a course isn't reliably turned on in this matchup with a lack of offense. Also, in my opinion, staying ahead of affinity in CA is integral to winning the matchup so the inclusion of chart a course and taking a controlling role seems correct, but I wanted to clarify. Anyways, my problems with this matchup include etched champions, man-lands and certain sideboard cards. Maybe I'm getting unlucky, who knows, but I feel like "rest in peace" is a common sideboard card due to the prevalence of storm now and it inherently attacks a large portion of our decks gameplan. In addition, removal in the form of dispatch can be quite annoying. I've found engineered explosives to either be an all star removal spell/sweeper or too slow and have been wanting a second copy of AG occasionally. If humans takes a step back, can you foresee a transition back to 2 copies?
EE is great vs Affinity. It even stops double Champ boards which can otherwise beat us (we can attack around a single Champ). Leak is the only counterspell we should keep post-board since it counters pretty much everything incl. Champ. If not for Champ we would cut it. This is a MU where we want all removal, not permission. Plan for RiP is to dodge it. Can still win through it with Hunt.
Jeskai is way easier to beat than UW. It's almost like a totally different deck.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Is gaddock teeg worth a slot in the side for control matchups with all their walkers and wraths, or against scapeshift, or to stop karn and ugin and walking ballista and chalice out of etron?
Is gaddock teeg worth a slot in the side for control matchups with all their walkers and wraths, or against scapeshift, or to stop karn and ugin and walking ballista and chalice out of etron?
Gaddock can't stop ballista (non creature). It does stop your shoals though and tamiyo. As a 1 of it's quite difficult to have it in the right moment.
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Decks played: Modern:
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URGW Countercats
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Is gaddock teeg worth a slot in the side for control matchups with all their walkers and wraths, or against scapeshift, or to stop karn and ugin and walking ballista and chalice out of etron?
Gaddock can't stop ballista (non creature). It does stop your shoals though and tamiyo. As a 1 of it's quite difficult to have it in the right moment.
This seems correct. Stopping Walking ballista was an oversight haha. My focus was to have a dedicated answer to supreme verdict decks, but I think Boros Charm is where we would want to be at that point.
Is this deck still worth it post unbans? I see a lot of activity on the Temur Delver forum recently and have found the lists over there quite interesting to play with, but am still fond of Counter Cat. Do you guys think it still has a chance in the current meta?
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Is this deck still worth it post unbans? I see a lot of activity on the Temur Delver forum recently and have found the lists over there quite interesting to play with, but am still fond of Counter Cat. Do you guys think it still has a chance in the current meta?
It's weaker to midrange than ever with BBE legal. Try Queller-Cat, which trims permission for Mutagenic Growth and Spell Queller and increases the threat count without Delver.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Having fun with the queller build. BBE into Mantis Rider is just crazy.
I find myself in need of some extra burn on grindy matchups, which was usually covered by Snapcaster Mage in the previous build. Was thinking of replacing some artifact hate for a burn spell (Lightning Helix, Boros Charm or Tribal Flames), seeing as there is no Affinity in my local meta.
I also don't quite get the inclusion of Magus of the Moon instead of Blood Moon. It's much easier to dismiss.
Thank you so much for your builds and help, it's been really cool learning to play aggro control from your blog and forums. Cheers.
Swim the great currents and the shallow seas. Exult in the dynamic beauty and life of the bounteous Undersea. Revel in the joy of creation and increase its myriad aspects. Seek not to hold that which is everchanging, but instead love the change itself.
Having fun with the queller build. BBE into Mantis Rider is just crazy.
I find myself in need of some extra burn on grindy matchups, which was usually covered by Snapcaster Mage in the previous build. Was thinking of replacing some artifact hate for a burn spell (Lightning Helix, Boros Charm or Tribal Flames), seeing as there is no Affinity in my local meta.
I also don't quite get the inclusion of Magus of the Moon instead of Blood Moon. It's much easier to dismiss.
Thank you so much for your builds and help, it's been really cool learning to play aggro control from your blog and forums. Cheers.
¿Where can I find you tourney report?
Magus is mostly here to buy us time against big mana and randomly hassle midrange. It's not a prison plan like Moon can be. We actually can't run Moon because it's too hard on our own manabase, whereas Magus can jump under a guy whenever we need it to if we find ourselves under pressure. It can also be saved from Bolt by Muta and applies pressure after cascade.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
I've been testing this deck lately and although it's super fun against creature based decks, it has a terrible time against creature-less control and blood moon decks, even after sideboarding. There are too many cards (snare, path) that have no use in this kind of situations.
I usually play Temur Delver, which at the time has none of those problems, seeing as it is a Blood Moon deck itself that contains diverse counters, including Stubborn Denial, which is excellent in these situations.
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Took basically my old version, looked what has changed (here), adapted my list slightly and changed the SB to fit our metagame better (lots of graveyard decks (second Surgical) and Control (Isochron Scepter)). Though, while I can understand the Mutagenic Growths in the MD, I never was a fan of them. The only thing I missed was an additional Helix, but nothing I can do there :/
Round 1 vs GW Counter Company (with Knight, Rallier and co)
Game 1: I resolve and was able to stick a flipped Delver, who beat him basically to death. He needed some help from a Goyf to get through the Courser the Opp had (regarding life gain).
Game 2: I have a decent board position with flipped Delver and Nacatl, but punt away the game when I bolted the Vizier instead of the Druid (sum sickness) and thus he was able to Chord for another Vizier into Infinite mana into Recruiter into Balista.
Without that punt I might have won, but his hand was pure gas so it would have been though either way
Game 3: The tl,dr is: I kept a iffy hand (2 Goyfs, 1 Mandrills, 2 lands, 1 Path, 1 Vision) since I only have one interaction spell at all and two rather clunky creatures (cause they are two drops) combined with him casting 6 Collected Companies led to my demise. However, I got him down to 5 and would have need only one turn more (EE did wonders here).
Boarding: -2 Spell Pierce, -1 Remand, -2 Nacatl (though for him to get through that clocked board), +2 Pyroclasm, +1 EE, +1 Isochron Scepter, +1 Snapcaster Mage
Was not sure about the Huntmasters but I felt, that they were to clunky and the risk of getting comboed to death is to big for me.
0-1 (1-2)
Round 2: 8 Rack
Welp, fk me
Game 1: I mull down to 5 and die
Game 2: He kept a one lander with lots of upside (3 small pox) but never drew the second land. I beat him down with 2 Nacatls and a Delver while having Spell Pierce and Snare up
Game 3: Mull to 6, kept a decent hand, he reks me with Small Pox and races me due to Mutavault and 2 Rack effects. I had not the 4th land for Huntmaster to turn the game around :/
Game 1: He kepts an one lander with huge upside, but didn't find the second land in time before getting beaten to death by a Delver backed up by 2 Bolts. However, that game was done even if would have found a second land earlier, since I had 3 Paths in my hand
Game 2: He plays aggressive, lands a Tasigur but nothing else (Death Shadow ate an Mana Leak). He plays aggressive with his lands and shocks himself once unnecessary (dropped won to 9 from 12) and thus my Delver was able to close out the game. Highlight: Playing around Stubborn Denial by Unsubstaniate the Tasigur so that I can bolt him.
Boarding: -1 Spell Snare, -1 Thought Scour, -1 Lightning Bolt, +2 Huntmaster, +1 EE
No Scepter here because of the Commands.
1-2 (4-4)
Round 4 vs Elves
Game 1: He starts with an Dork, into Druid, 2 Sentinel, into more stuff into CoCo for two Shaman of the Pacts to kill me.
Welp, happens
Game 2: I have a removal and counter heavy hand, but only a Nacatl for beatdown. Because of this I had to leak the Elite, cause of the bodies. Than Nacatl did Nacatl things, blocked, attacked, waited for Goyf and finally an EE to clean up the board into double Goyf attack was enough for me to win that game
Game 3: Similar to game 3, I just had to tap out at one turn to resolve Goyf + Mandrills (to get a real clock going), so was able to do w/e he wanted to do. Was only a Lead the Stampede which whiffed (only one creature) and thus I won the next turn.
I rate Huntmaster higher than Snappy in this match-up, especially since they come alive in roughly the same time frame.
Hey, still live for the top 8
Round 5 vs Naya big Mana Moon (Blood Moon, Infernal Titan, Glory Bringer, Utopia Sprawl, Arbor Elf, Madcap MD, Fierly Justice..)
Welp, fk me.
Game 1: I clocked him early with double threat (Delver + Nacatl), he Beast Withined my U producing land, went for Madcap Experiment, I pathed the Emperior and got him down to 4 in the following attack. However, he blobbed the board, killed my Delver with another Beast Within and survived with one life.
I was not able to burn him out, since I had no mana for it (he had Moon out, I had only a "Mountain" but no white for the Helix ). From his start (Basic forest into Sprawl) I knew he would run Blood Moon, but I only drew 2 lands and thus I was not able to fetch up the Island so all my juicy U spells rotted in my hand (Send to Sleep, Cantrips, Snappy (would have been enough, cause there was a bolt in the grave),...)
Game 2: He had an Abor Elf, but I had no Bolt, just a Path. So I went Delver go, he plays Arbor Elf, I played Nacatl and Path his Elf in the upkeep. He plays a land + Sprawl and go, I went land attack for 6 (Delver flipps were REALLY nice all day long) and kept up Unsubstaniate. I also fetched out a basic Island.
He wents BBE into Moon, welp fk me. I Unsubstanite the Moon and hope, that I get more turns. I played Goyf, he blobs the board (not playing the Moon), I crashed in, he dropps down to 4, he kills my Delver (Firely Justice), kills the Nacatl (BBE) and chumps the 5/6 Goyf (Bird). He draws a Chandra, upticks her and start to shoot me. I get one Bolt in, he drops down to 1 and I just need another Bolt to finish him off, but I never drew it before Chandra ulted and he killed me.
What makes this even worse, I had the Bolt on top >.>'
Overall 3-3, which is somewhat fine, since I should have won the game against GW Company (I'm sure I made some misplays there) and against Naya Big Ramp Moon. Deck was bonkers and really fun to play, would play again. I liked all choices, just maybe I want the 18th land back in the list, since I noticed, that I really want 4 lands for Huntmaster, Snappy, Chart a Course and some heavy cantrip lines.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Have some questions about your build: Unsub seems bad. What's it for? I don't like Iso anymore without multiple Helix in the deck; it's too unreliable as a win condition. There is more artifact hate running around than ever, too (see: Affinity's decline). Even post-board people are going to keep Abrade and Kolaghan's against us. You should try Hazoret. 18 lands a must IMO if you want that board plan. Do you not find the second Chart clunky? We realized it was kind of loose in this metagame, which is quite fast. But it's still nice to have one copy. Send to Sleep seems more like a sideboard card to me. Why Remand?
As for Muta, I just think it's awesome right now. But especially in this deck. There is so much toughness-based removal that it has a high chance of saving creatures (Dismember, Brutality, Bolt, Abrade, Kolaghan's, Electrolyze, etc.). Sapping a mana from opponents when they go for a kill spell is so powerful in a deck this aggressive. At best, it feels like Time Walk. And Muta can just be 2 damage down the road, which our deck is capable of taking advantage of. Even vs. linear decks, I've gone Nacatl into Muta-Snap-Muta to increase the clock. Plus, it wins combat wars---Mandrills can kill Gurmag; Nacatl can kill Hollow and TKS; our Goyfs win; etc. A lot of big bodies in Modern right now. Our permission makes it harder to get blown out.
I am trying a build slightly different than Kelsey's which cuts the two Sleights for a second Opt and a Looting main. That gives me space in the side for another card. I'm thinking a Damping Sphere. We also want to cut Seas from the side. It's too slow against Tron and the fair midrange decks it's also good against are on the decline. Don't know for what yet though. Maybe a second Sphere and a Rejection.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
As I said, made a longer break from the deck, so take everything with a grain of salt:
- Unsub because it does a different Remand impression while not not sucking that much against several decks. It is basically a bad Vapor Snag (cause 2 Mana) or a bad Remand (cause no card draw), but does both things at once.
I liked it in different decks I played over the past few months (UG Storm, RUG Eternal Command, Jeskai Ritual Gifts,...), so I gave it a shot in Counter-Cat. My conclusion: It was not that bad, but also not that good. I would play it over Remand going forward, but I doubt, that I would want a Remand effect to begin with (not that much you really would want to Remand and not straight up Mana Leak).
- Isochron Scepter: Pet card of mine and it looks good in match-ups I do not really like, such as Control (VERY unlikely that they have any form of Artefact hate game 2/3). Sure, a second Helix would be nice to have (and I missed it), but that is a different topic.
- Hazoret, I realised why and what he is for when I was playing the deck at the PPTQ. Would I play him now? Maybe, still not that sure. The decks he is good against are not that common in my metagame.
- 18th land, as I said, I will switch (finally) over, dunno yet what land I will play though (and what's more important, what I will cut).
- Send to Seep, I just love that card. Sure, pure tempo card but it buys more than enough time to finish the opponent or to stall out the game. Drew it three times and it was always nuts. I might even consider running two maindeck copies, since I have Path, I do not really need it.
- Remand, cause it is Remand. But as I already said, I doubt that the deck really wants a Remand effect to begin with in the current metagame.
- Mutagenic Growth, I neither like the card nor it really fits my playstyle. I know, what the card does and I know why it is good, but in the specific sub metagame we have here, I really dislike it. It does close to nothing against ADN, Bridgevine, UW Control, Hardening Scale Affinity and KCI. It is only good against those decks, close to nobody is playing here (from the 20+ guys only 1 or 2 play Humans, Jund, GDS, Hollowed One,...). If I would play the deck at a large scale tournament (aka GP) I would add them most likely, but that is a totally different story.
-2nd Chart a Course, since I only run 1 Looting, I run the second Chart since it kinda fills the same role, "late" game card advantage (discarding bad cards, or just draw more)
Remaining SB stuff: I have no idea regarding Spreading Seas. I never really liked that card (noticed it again in this tournament, where I wanted it against Naya but it was to expensive all the time). I would rather play Sea's Claim tbh. In general, I do not mind the fair match-ups but Control (Midrange is doable cause of Huntmaster and the two Chart a Course), so I would rather include stuff which deals with:
- Humans (didn't play against this deck yet with Counter-Cat, but maybe Firespout or more targeted Removal?)
- Tron (realistically you need 1-2 turns here)
- Dredgevine/Hallowed One (Surgical is nice against both of them)
- Hardening Scales Affinity (way harder match-up than normal Affinity in my experience, cause you have to have Path or you are screwed) / normal Affinity (no problem imo)
- UR Storm (Surgical and the MD counter suit I played is usually more than enough here)
- Counter's Company (*puke*)
- UW/Jeskai Control
- KCI (no idea here but Damping Sphere, which I absolutely hate in this deck, or running something like Stony or Kambal with a resulting B splash).
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
- Isochron Scepter: Pet card of mine and it looks good in match-ups I do not really like, such as Control (VERY unlikely that they have any form of Artefact hate game 2/3). Sure, a second Helix would be nice to have (and I missed it), but that is a different topic.
- Hazoret, I realised why and what he is for when I was playing the deck at the PPTQ. Would I play him now? Maybe, still not that sure. The decks he is good against are not that common in my metagame.
Hazoret is in fact quite good against control decks. You run them out of Paths and then slam Haz and kill them or use it to attack fresh planeswalkers. UW has Detention Sphere though for Iso, and literally every control deck plays min. 2 Teferi which also removes Iso.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
I talked with some of the UW players and they told me, that it is very likely, that they will board out there Detention Sphere, cause there is no real good target for it, cause of Terminus, Verdict and Path.
Hence, there is only really Teferi to dread here, and a resolved Teferi is usually gg either way.
Also, Hazert costing 4 is a real problem for me, cause realistically I will be able to cast him on turn 5 or 6 even with 18 lands.
Greetings,
Kathal
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What I play or have:
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Jordan, could you re-post the Counter-Cat list you posted on the Temur Delver Primer here? Thx a bunch.
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Looking to try a Mountain side over the Rejection, which is overkill with the Spheres. There is nothing I particularly want in that slot though. For reference, she is 3-1 or 4-0ing twice a week; I am mostly going 2-2 and 3-1.
the card itself really isn't worth the card board its printed on...does it serve a purpose? Sure its a blue 1 drop that might not be a 1/1. I would not put it in a list and expect to win a PTQ or GP though.
There are only 14 sideboard card in both decks. Which is the last one?
Then, isn't Shapers' Sanctuary a pretty bad top deck and good only if cast during the first few turns?
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Decks played: Modern:
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(Here you can find some video contents about Countercats and Temur Delver decks)
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OUT:
-4 Path to Exile
-1 Hooting Mandrills
-2 Thought Scour
-1 Sleight of Hand
IN:
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Engineered Explosives
+2 Pyroclasm
+1 Surgical Extraction
+2 Negate
I faced 2 UWx control decks one of which was more creature oriented with flash spells, 2 Grixis Shadow, and UB control with spreading seas and field of ruin. I felt that the shadow matchup is easily understood and likely in our favour since we can overwhelm them with paths and goyfs, however, UW and UB control (not the geist version) seem to be problematic in my experience. Even during testing on cockatrice I have had trouble keeping up with a resolved Gideon of the trials followed by verdict. All that in addition to their LD package seems like an inevitable loss for us. I've been experimenting with surgical extraction and engineered explosives against the Gideon versions to blow up potential d spheres and Gideon and surgical to rid them of verdict.
The UB control deck seems like a worse version where you can keep counter magic in to stop damnation from resolving and pretty much win from there.
Is this thread dead rn?
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Is UWR any better since it usually doesn't run verdict and Gideon in exchange for queller, etc.?
As for storm, that makes a lot of sense actually. Didn't even think about it. I remember you replying to somebody stating that sleight of hand was taken out in 0 of our matchups, but that might have been before storm was a thing and also might have been before the probe banning. But I am not 100% sure lol. Taking out goyf seems strange because he is just so efficient, but it makes sense when the opponent can untap and murder you.
Against UB control, would keeping in countermagic be ill-advised? Keep in mind that I've seen ub control decks start to transiting towards the spreading seas/FoR package with a plethora of planeswalkers for value. Does the theoretical presence of liliana make permission too much of a liability?
Out:
-4 Wild Nacatl
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 Thought Scour
-2 Mana Leak
In:
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+2 Huntmaster of the Fells
+2 Engineered Explosives
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Ancient Grudge
+2 Pyroclasm
I've felt like disrupting shoal has been a great card to break up their synergies, I'm just not dogmatic about it's inclusion post board. It feels right to take out nacatl, but on paper I feel like chart a course isn't reliably turned on in this matchup with a lack of offense. Also, in my opinion, staying ahead of affinity in CA is integral to winning the matchup so the inclusion of chart a course and taking a controlling role seems correct, but I wanted to clarify. Anyways, my problems with this matchup include etched champions, man-lands and certain sideboard cards. Maybe I'm getting unlucky, who knows, but I feel like "rest in peace" is a common sideboard card due to the prevalence of storm now and it inherently attacks a large portion of our decks gameplan. In addition, removal in the form of dispatch can be quite annoying. I've found engineered explosives to either be an all star removal spell/sweeper or too slow and have been wanting a second copy of AG occasionally. If humans takes a step back, can you foresee a transition back to 2 copies?
Jeskai is way easier to beat than UW. It's almost like a totally different deck.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Gaddock can't stop ballista (non creature). It does stop your shoals though and tamiyo. As a 1 of it's quite difficult to have it in the right moment.
Modern:
This seems correct. Stopping Walking ballista was an oversight haha. My focus was to have a dedicated answer to supreme verdict decks, but I think Boros Charm is where we would want to be at that point.
U Mono Best Tron
RUG Monkey Grow Delver
RUGW Cats n' Gnats
UR Wizard Tribal with Grapeshot Combo
My first list:
4 Narnam Renegade
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Mantis Rider
4 Spell Queller
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Instants (8)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mutagenic Growth
Lands (22)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
3 Unified Will
3 Reflector Mage
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Rest in Peace
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Stony Silence
2 Kozilek’s Return
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
I find myself in need of some extra burn on grindy matchups, which was usually covered by Snapcaster Mage in the previous build. Was thinking of replacing some artifact hate for a burn spell (Lightning Helix, Boros Charm or Tribal Flames), seeing as there is no Affinity in my local meta.
I also don't quite get the inclusion of Magus of the Moon instead of Blood Moon. It's much easier to dismiss.
Thank you so much for your builds and help, it's been really cool learning to play aggro control from your blog and forums. Cheers.
Can always find my reports on Modern Nexus.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1132677#paper
What are the thoughts on this?
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
I've been testing this deck lately and although it's super fun against creature based decks, it has a terrible time against creature-less control and blood moon decks, even after sideboarding. There are too many cards (snare, path) that have no use in this kind of situations.
I usually play Temur Delver, which at the time has none of those problems, seeing as it is a Blood Moon deck itself that contains diverse counters, including Stubborn Denial, which is excellent in these situations.
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Wild Nacatl
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Noncreature Spells (15)
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
2 Bant Charm
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Ground
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Damping Sphere
2 Stony Silence
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Negate
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Rhox War Monk
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
//Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hooting Mandrills
1 Snapcaster Mage
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
1 Faithless Looting
1 Thought Scour
2 Chart a Course
//Interaction
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
1 Lightning Helix
1 Send to Sleep
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
1 Remand
1 Unsubstantiate
2 Pyroclasm
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Isochron Scepter
2 Spreading Seas
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Negate
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Engineered Explosives
Took basically my old version, looked what has changed (here), adapted my list slightly and changed the SB to fit our metagame better (lots of graveyard decks (second Surgical) and Control (Isochron Scepter)). Though, while I can understand the Mutagenic Growths in the MD, I never was a fan of them. The only thing I missed was an additional Helix, but nothing I can do there :/
Round 1 vs GW Counter Company (with Knight, Rallier and co)
Game 1: I resolve and was able to stick a flipped Delver, who beat him basically to death. He needed some help from a Goyf to get through the Courser the Opp had (regarding life gain).
Game 2: I have a decent board position with flipped Delver and Nacatl, but punt away the game when I bolted the Vizier instead of the Druid (sum sickness) and thus he was able to Chord for another Vizier into Infinite mana into Recruiter into Balista.
Without that punt I might have won, but his hand was pure gas so it would have been though either way
Game 3: The tl,dr is: I kept a iffy hand (2 Goyfs, 1 Mandrills, 2 lands, 1 Path, 1 Vision) since I only have one interaction spell at all and two rather clunky creatures (cause they are two drops) combined with him casting 6 Collected Companies led to my demise. However, I got him down to 5 and would have need only one turn more (EE did wonders here).
Boarding: -2 Spell Pierce, -1 Remand, -2 Nacatl (though for him to get through that clocked board), +2 Pyroclasm, +1 EE, +1 Isochron Scepter, +1 Snapcaster Mage
Was not sure about the Huntmasters but I felt, that they were to clunky and the risk of getting comboed to death is to big for me.
0-1 (1-2)
Round 2: 8 Rack
Welp, fk me
Game 1: I mull down to 5 and die
Game 2: He kept a one lander with lots of upside (3 small pox) but never drew the second land. I beat him down with 2 Nacatls and a Delver while having Spell Pierce and Snare up
Game 3: Mull to 6, kept a decent hand, he reks me with Small Pox and races me due to Mutavault and 2 Rack effects. I had not the 4th land for Huntmaster to turn the game around :/
Boarding: -4 Paths, -1 Send to Sleep, -1 Faithless Looting, -1 Unsubstantiate (does nothing here), -1 Mandrills; +2 Huntmaster, +2 Isochron Scepter, +1 Negate, +1 Ancient Grudge, +1 Destructive Revelry, +1 EE
0-2 (2-4)
Round 3: GDS
Nice!
Game 1: He kepts an one lander with huge upside, but didn't find the second land in time before getting beaten to death by a Delver backed up by 2 Bolts. However, that game was done even if would have found a second land earlier, since I had 3 Paths in my hand
Game 2: He plays aggressive, lands a Tasigur but nothing else (Death Shadow ate an Mana Leak). He plays aggressive with his lands and shocks himself once unnecessary (dropped won to 9 from 12) and thus my Delver was able to close out the game. Highlight: Playing around Stubborn Denial by Unsubstaniate the Tasigur so that I can bolt him.
Boarding: -1 Spell Snare, -1 Thought Scour, -1 Lightning Bolt, +2 Huntmaster, +1 EE
No Scepter here because of the Commands.
1-2 (4-4)
Round 4 vs Elves
Game 1: He starts with an Dork, into Druid, 2 Sentinel, into more stuff into CoCo for two Shaman of the Pacts to kill me.
Welp, happens
Game 2: I have a removal and counter heavy hand, but only a Nacatl for beatdown. Because of this I had to leak the Elite, cause of the bodies. Than Nacatl did Nacatl things, blocked, attacked, waited for Goyf and finally an EE to clean up the board into double Goyf attack was enough for me to win that game
Game 3: Similar to game 3, I just had to tap out at one turn to resolve Goyf + Mandrills (to get a real clock going), so was able to do w/e he wanted to do. Was only a Lead the Stampede which whiffed (only one creature) and thus I won the next turn.
2-2 (6-5)
Boarding: -2 Spell Pierce, -1 Remand, -1 Unsubstaniate, -1 Wild Nacatl, +2 Pyroclasm, +1 Engineered Explosive, +2 Huntmaster of the Fells
I rate Huntmaster higher than Snappy in this match-up, especially since they come alive in roughly the same time frame.
Hey, still live for the top 8
Round 5 vs Naya big Mana Moon (Blood Moon, Infernal Titan, Glory Bringer, Utopia Sprawl, Arbor Elf, Madcap MD, Fierly Justice..)
Welp, fk me.
Game 1: I clocked him early with double threat (Delver + Nacatl), he Beast Withined my U producing land, went for Madcap Experiment, I pathed the Emperior and got him down to 4 in the following attack. However, he blobbed the board, killed my Delver with another Beast Within and survived with one life.
I was not able to burn him out, since I had no mana for it (he had Moon out, I had only a "Mountain" but no white for the Helix ). From his start (Basic forest into Sprawl) I knew he would run Blood Moon, but I only drew 2 lands and thus I was not able to fetch up the Island so all my juicy U spells rotted in my hand (Send to Sleep, Cantrips, Snappy (would have been enough, cause there was a bolt in the grave),...)
Game 2: He had an Abor Elf, but I had no Bolt, just a Path. So I went Delver go, he plays Arbor Elf, I played Nacatl and Path his Elf in the upkeep. He plays a land + Sprawl and go, I went land attack for 6 (Delver flipps were REALLY nice all day long) and kept up Unsubstaniate. I also fetched out a basic Island.
He wents BBE into Moon, welp fk me. I Unsubstanite the Moon and hope, that I get more turns. I played Goyf, he blobs the board (not playing the Moon), I crashed in, he dropps down to 4, he kills my Delver (Firely Justice), kills the Nacatl (BBE) and chumps the 5/6 Goyf (Bird). He draws a Chandra, upticks her and start to shoot me. I get one Bolt in, he drops down to 1 and I just need another Bolt to finish him off, but I never drew it before Chandra ulted and he killed me.
What makes this even worse, I had the Bolt on top >.>'
Boarding: -1 Remand, -1 Spell Snare, -1 Chart a Course, -1 Nacatl; +2 Isochron Scepter, +1 Destructive Revelry, +1 Negate
Bye bye top 8 contention :/
2-3 (6-7)
Round 6:
Opp didn't show up and thus got a bye.
Overall 3-3, which is somewhat fine, since I should have won the game against GW Company (I'm sure I made some misplays there) and against Naya Big Ramp Moon. Deck was bonkers and really fun to play, would play again. I liked all choices, just maybe I want the 18th land back in the list, since I noticed, that I really want 4 lands for Huntmaster, Snappy, Chart a Course and some heavy cantrip lines.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
As for Muta, I just think it's awesome right now. But especially in this deck. There is so much toughness-based removal that it has a high chance of saving creatures (Dismember, Brutality, Bolt, Abrade, Kolaghan's, Electrolyze, etc.). Sapping a mana from opponents when they go for a kill spell is so powerful in a deck this aggressive. At best, it feels like Time Walk. And Muta can just be 2 damage down the road, which our deck is capable of taking advantage of. Even vs. linear decks, I've gone Nacatl into Muta-Snap-Muta to increase the clock. Plus, it wins combat wars---Mandrills can kill Gurmag; Nacatl can kill Hollow and TKS; our Goyfs win; etc. A lot of big bodies in Modern right now. Our permission makes it harder to get blown out.
I am trying a build slightly different than Kelsey's which cuts the two Sleights for a second Opt and a Looting main. That gives me space in the side for another card. I'm thinking a Damping Sphere. We also want to cut Seas from the side. It's too slow against Tron and the fair midrange decks it's also good against are on the decline. Don't know for what yet though. Maybe a second Sphere and a Rejection.
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
- Unsub because it does a different Remand impression while not not sucking that much against several decks. It is basically a bad Vapor Snag (cause 2 Mana) or a bad Remand (cause no card draw), but does both things at once.
I liked it in different decks I played over the past few months (UG Storm, RUG Eternal Command, Jeskai Ritual Gifts,...), so I gave it a shot in Counter-Cat. My conclusion: It was not that bad, but also not that good. I would play it over Remand going forward, but I doubt, that I would want a Remand effect to begin with (not that much you really would want to Remand and not straight up Mana Leak).
- Isochron Scepter: Pet card of mine and it looks good in match-ups I do not really like, such as Control (VERY unlikely that they have any form of Artefact hate game 2/3). Sure, a second Helix would be nice to have (and I missed it), but that is a different topic.
- Hazoret, I realised why and what he is for when I was playing the deck at the PPTQ. Would I play him now? Maybe, still not that sure. The decks he is good against are not that common in my metagame.
- 18th land, as I said, I will switch (finally) over, dunno yet what land I will play though (and what's more important, what I will cut).
- Send to Seep, I just love that card. Sure, pure tempo card but it buys more than enough time to finish the opponent or to stall out the game. Drew it three times and it was always nuts. I might even consider running two maindeck copies, since I have Path, I do not really need it.
- Remand, cause it is Remand. But as I already said, I doubt that the deck really wants a Remand effect to begin with in the current metagame.
- Mutagenic Growth, I neither like the card nor it really fits my playstyle. I know, what the card does and I know why it is good, but in the specific sub metagame we have here, I really dislike it. It does close to nothing against ADN, Bridgevine, UW Control, Hardening Scale Affinity and KCI. It is only good against those decks, close to nobody is playing here (from the 20+ guys only 1 or 2 play Humans, Jund, GDS, Hollowed One,...). If I would play the deck at a large scale tournament (aka GP) I would add them most likely, but that is a totally different story.
-2nd Chart a Course, since I only run 1 Looting, I run the second Chart since it kinda fills the same role, "late" game card advantage (discarding bad cards, or just draw more)
Remaining SB stuff: I have no idea regarding Spreading Seas. I never really liked that card (noticed it again in this tournament, where I wanted it against Naya but it was to expensive all the time). I would rather play Sea's Claim tbh. In general, I do not mind the fair match-ups but Control (Midrange is doable cause of Huntmaster and the two Chart a Course), so I would rather include stuff which deals with:
- Humans (didn't play against this deck yet with Counter-Cat, but maybe Firespout or more targeted Removal?)
- Tron (realistically you need 1-2 turns here)
- Dredgevine/Hallowed One (Surgical is nice against both of them)
- Hardening Scales Affinity (way harder match-up than normal Affinity in my experience, cause you have to have Path or you are screwed) / normal Affinity (no problem imo)
- UR Storm (Surgical and the MD counter suit I played is usually more than enough here)
- Counter's Company (*puke*)
- UW/Jeskai Control
- KCI (no idea here but Damping Sphere, which I absolutely hate in this deck, or running something like Stony or Kambal with a resulting B splash).
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Hence, there is only really Teferi to dread here, and a resolved Teferi is usually gg either way.
Also, Hazert costing 4 is a real problem for me, cause realistically I will be able to cast him on turn 5 or 6 even with 18 lands.
Greetings,
Kathal
Modern/Legacy
either funpolice (Delver, Deathcloud, UW Control) or the fun decks (especially those ft. Griselbrand)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Hooting Mandrills
1 Snapcaster Mage
Instants 19
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
2 Thought Scour
3 Mutagenic Growth
2 Opt
1 Spell Snare
4 Serum Visions
1 Chart a Course
1 Faithless Looting
Lands 18
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Flooded Strand
1 Stomping Ground
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Temple Garden
1 Island
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Pyroclasm
2 Damping Sphere
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Shapers' Sanctuary
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Destructive Revelry
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Negate
Counter-Cat
Colorless Eldrazi Stompy
Then, isn't Shapers' Sanctuary a pretty bad top deck and good only if cast during the first few turns?
Modern: