Maybe something like ensnaring bridge would be a good call. Wurmcoil couldn't even attack then. You can still swing with tokens, then sac them to finish. Again, O Stone and Karn are issues.
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Something I'm considering is something a little fatter. I got wrecked by darkblast today, and kept thinking something like Olivia Voldaren or maybe Tasigur, the golden fang. Tasigur also has the ability to potentially keep putting dudes back in your hand, especially if you delve out the stuff you don't want. He'd work best in the build with green.
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i feel haruspecs is just better than prophecy. better tempo more aggressive and no loss of life is huge
All true, and I haven't tested enough to really naysay it, but it is also more vulnerable to removal, doesn't trigger off tokens and doesn't trigger from its own death. Phyrexian Arena might be better than either of them, and if Junk gets as bad as I fear it won't matter which one you choose, it'll just eat Abrupt Decay at EOT.
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GW Hatebears more like HateBROS BWR THE ARISTAHCRATZ!
So far I'm not a fan of haruspex. If it drew a card when it died it would be better, as it is it gets targeted quickly and isn't tough enough to stay out long. I'd rather have dark confidant by a wide margin, but I don't own any. I'm going to pull haruspex and try some other card draw, probably phyrexian arena initially.
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Here is the newest iteration. Main changes would be removing altar's reap and lightning bolt for dark confidant and dreadbore. There were too many times I saw bolt and wished it was something else in the deck
That's a bold statement... I don't think I have ever had that feeling ever. Typically its "why can't this just be lightning bolt?"
I would agree 100% in every deck normally, but for this deck specifically it usually just feels like "I wish this was another creature" to further board states or drain ability. Bold, I know. But going against a deck like tron, or Scapeshift, I'd much rather have another body to throw into a Butcher of the Horde activation to put on more pressure and give me more life to work with
I've been building various sacrifice-engine themed decks in Modern for a good while now, and while mine tend to be pretty different (Not a huge fan of either of the actual Aristocrats, generally more red-heavy, usually running a good number of zombies to support Gravecrawler), a bunch of the cards I like to run are probably cross-applicable.
Easily the best saccable in the format, imo, and the best reason to make a sacrifice-focused deck have a zombie tribal subtheme. He deals two damage, comes back for one, and only costs B. He requires another zombie to recur, but that's rarely difficult, given the huge number of zombies that also fit the theme or are just good (I see you've already discovered Tidehollow Sculler).
If you can get triple black, he's absolutely fantastic in this sort of deck, and that's usually doable with a bit of manabase tweaking, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, and maybe a filter land. If you already have some kind of sacrifice outlet on the field, he can be an immediate four damage when necessary, or he can be a very resilient threat. G-Crawliez best friend.
You're saccing creatures. You're killing creatures. You will rarely take more than a turn to get this active, and a 5/5 for B is great. Again, also a zombie for Crawler.
Due to being an aura, you never really want more than one or two of these in your deck, since you don't want to draw multiples of it with no creatures to enchant. However, it is fantastic in this sort of deck. It turns a creature evasive, and gives it the ability to just suddenly become enormous. Unlike most enchantments, it has the Rancor text, so it will rarely be card disadvantage unless you sacrifice too aggressively. With Crawler and a zombie, it turns into "B: Enchanted creatures games +2/+1" on top of the flying.
You sacrifice a small creature that's there to be sacrificed anyway, your opponent sacrifices something that almost certainly matters more to them than your Crawler/Bloodsoaked Champion/Doomed Traveler/Goblin Token did for you. Occasionally outright wins you the game if your opponent has to sacrifice a land when they're already short on mana.
He's a big zombie for his cost that recurs. Three toughness makes him occasionally lackluster against Bolt, but doesn't entirely kill him because, again, he recurs.
So yeah, there's some less obvious stuff I've had some degree of success with in the past (Not always huge amounts of success, but it might be better in this deck than the ones I've been running. Hopefully something is helpful to you guys.
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*Insert giant block of annoying garbage that no one cares about but you have to scroll past anyway here*
Kitchen Finks is actually decent in the junk version as it comes back after a sac and you can reset its persist by scavenging a Doomed Traveler with Varolz on the battlefield for {W}. I played Aristocrats a while back to great success and one card that was essential for me was Chord of Calling to either get a sac outlet on the board or to get a Blood Artist and Pseudo combo on the spot by saccing my board.
I would love the play messenger... That BBB though. Why was finks 1 G/W G/W (allowing you to play it in three color decks with ease, plays in mono green, mono white, or anything with either of those colors.) but messenger was BBB.
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I would love the play messenger... That BBB though. Why was finks 1 G/W G/W (allowing you to play it in three color decks with ease, plays in mono green, mono white, or anything with either of those colors.) but messenger was BBB.
Making your opponent lose life is usually better than gaining life, so that's why. And thanks for the suggestions, Pyro! I may have to try a few of those out
From my experience playing the deck you can run a light amount of creature removal as aristocrats is great at mucking up your opponents combat step. When I was playing the deck, I generally just ran 3 path to exiles in the SB to handle decks like twin, tron and melira pod(its been a while since I played the deck). If I was to play the deck again, it would maybe look something like this:
This is what I'm running currently - the 2 drop is a bit heavy and I really like the flexibility of 3 drop spot between Finks/Souls/Sin Collector/Mindcensor/Brimstone Volley, etc.
That is what I just ran with tonight. Lost to affinity and Burn. Although I think my original list was better against burn. The mana base is so stretched putting messengers in lol. Beat jund, that was a really good match up and actually show cased why I think this deck will be really good in the coming meta. If anyone can let me know how exactly I could upload a cockatrice replay I would post them up here for examples. The jund guy had even wurmcoil engine and I was able to beat it through maneuvering my sacrifices to keep him from gaining life while I whittled him down with souls tokens.
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That's a bold statement... I don't think I have ever had that feeling ever. Typically its "why can't this just be lightning bolt?"
I would agree 100% in every deck normally, but for this deck specifically it usually just feels like "I wish this was another creature" to further board states or drain ability. Bold, I know. But going against a deck like tron, or Scapeshift, I'd much rather have another body to throw into a Butcher of the Horde activation to put on more pressure and give me more life to work with
I think maybe Bolt over dreadbore is much better, 1 card for +3 damage, dreadbore wont do much more unless you come up against tron/planeswalkers loads, I don't in my meta.
I'm working under the assumption that with the new bannings, Tron is going to be seeing a major uptick
Thinking outside the box, I've added Æther vial and pack rat. The thinking is this: First, aether vial allows some explosiveness, flashing in dudes to either get damage, sac to save, or simply beat counters/blood moon. It's easy to get a lot of dudes out in a hurry. Pack Rat is my answer to something fatter. If the opponent doesn't do something about rat it gets out of hand and just wins. Using vial allows me to vial in aristocrats while holding up mana to make more rats. The negative to this interaction is having enough cards to do stuff. So in go 3 Phyrexian Arena to try to keep the flow going. It's a work in progress, but pretty fun.
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Both of those are ok. I personally don't like vial because if you include it then it must auto be a 4 of but the third and even sometimes the second copy are terrible. Its terrible when you draw it, if you see it at all you want it in your opening hand. Vial also makes the deck way less consistent.
In every game I have played so far Outpost Siege has been brilliant. Its been working out pretty much exactly how I thought it would on the drawing board. Top deck it late with a blood artist on board and you flat out just win. Play it on turn four against any of the B/G/X decks and start recouping card advantage. The flexibility that card has for this deck is just insane. Its also way way easier to cast then Phyrexian Arena, although it is 1 more mana. You guys should definitely consider it.
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I'm not sure I agree about Vial making the deck inconsistent. So far it's added options that limited the deck before. Also, having a second vial isn't terrible, more than that aren't great, but then how often do I want to draw thoughtsieze late in the game? Either way, it's a card to discard to make a rat. No draw is dead when pack rat is in play. The deck needs to be shaped for it, but so far it's been good for me. The deck...Aristoc-Rats.
Meh. You can make any card sound good when you justify it with "it discards to make a rat" or "it pitches to force of will" heard that one before a million times. Doesn't mean you should play it. I have never been impressed by pack rat in modern. And so far in 5 games I have not been impressed with Bloodsoaked Champion either.
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UB Tezzerator
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RB Goblins
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
Something I'm considering is something a little fatter. I got wrecked by darkblast today, and kept thinking something like Olivia Voldaren or maybe Tasigur, the golden fang. Tasigur also has the ability to potentially keep putting dudes back in your hand, especially if you delve out the stuff you don't want. He'd work best in the build with green.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
4 Blood Artist
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Doomed Traveler
1 Kitchen Finks
3 Twilight Drover
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Abzan Ascendancy
3 Bitterblossom
// Spells
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Abzan Charm
1 Altar's Reap
1 Go for the Throat
2 Tragic Slip
4 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
20 Lands
How's Haruspex working out?
All true, and I haven't tested enough to really naysay it, but it is also more vulnerable to removal, doesn't trigger off tokens and doesn't trigger from its own death. Phyrexian Arena might be better than either of them, and if Junk gets as bad as I fear it won't matter which one you choose, it'll just eat Abrupt Decay at EOT.
BWR THE ARISTAHCRATZ!
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1 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
3 Plains
1 Rugged Prairie
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
4 Blood Artist
3 Bloodsoaked Champion
2 Butcher of the Horde
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Dark Confidant
4 Doomed Traveler
3 Mogg War Marshal
4 Tidehollow Sculler
// Instants
3 Path to Exile
2 Rally the Ancestors
// Sorceries
1 Dreadbore
4 Lingering Souls
Here is the newest iteration. Main changes would be removing altar's reap and lightning bolt for dark confidant and dreadbore. There were too many times I saw bolt and wished it was something else in the deck
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
I would agree 100% in every deck normally, but for this deck specifically it usually just feels like "I wish this was another creature" to further board states or drain ability. Bold, I know. But going against a deck like tron, or Scapeshift, I'd much rather have another body to throw into a Butcher of the Horde activation to put on more pressure and give me more life to work with
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
So, here's some stuff you could all maybe test:
The aforementioned Gravecrawler
Easily the best saccable in the format, imo, and the best reason to make a sacrifice-focused deck have a zombie tribal subtheme. He deals two damage, comes back for one, and only costs B. He requires another zombie to recur, but that's rarely difficult, given the huge number of zombies that also fit the theme or are just good (I see you've already discovered Tidehollow Sculler).
Geralf's Messenger
If you can get triple black, he's absolutely fantastic in this sort of deck, and that's usually doable with a bit of manabase tweaking, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, and maybe a filter land. If you already have some kind of sacrifice outlet on the field, he can be an immediate four damage when necessary, or he can be a very resilient threat. G-Crawliez best friend.
Quest for the Gravelord
You're saccing creatures. You're killing creatures. You will rarely take more than a turn to get this active, and a 5/5 for B is great. Again, also a zombie for Crawler.
Fallen Ideal
Due to being an aura, you never really want more than one or two of these in your deck, since you don't want to draw multiples of it with no creatures to enchant. However, it is fantastic in this sort of deck. It turns a creature evasive, and gives it the ability to just suddenly become enormous. Unlike most enchantments, it has the Rancor text, so it will rarely be card disadvantage unless you sacrifice too aggressively. With Crawler and a zombie, it turns into "B: Enchanted creatures games +2/+1" on top of the flying.
Crack the Earth
You sacrifice a small creature that's there to be sacrificed anyway, your opponent sacrifices something that almost certainly matters more to them than your Crawler/Bloodsoaked Champion/Doomed Traveler/Goblin Token did for you. Occasionally outright wins you the game if your opponent has to sacrifice a land when they're already short on mana.
Collateral Damage
Need more Lightning Bolts? Well, for decks like this, CD is basically Bolts 5-8.
Shambling Remains
He's a big zombie for his cost that recurs. Three toughness makes him occasionally lackluster against Bolt, but doesn't entirely kill him because, again, he recurs.
So yeah, there's some less obvious stuff I've had some degree of success with in the past (Not always huge amounts of success, but it might be better in this deck than the ones I've been running. Hopefully something is helpful to you guys.
Making your opponent lose life is usually better than gaining life, so that's why. And thanks for the suggestions, Pyro! I may have to try a few of those out
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
3 Bloodsoaked Champion
3 Blood Artist
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Voice of Resurgence
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
3 Bitterblossom
2 Abzan Ascendancy
4 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Spellskite
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Stony Silence
3 Path to Exile
That is what I just ran with tonight. Lost to affinity and Burn. Although I think my original list was better against burn. The mana base is so stretched putting messengers in lol. Beat jund, that was a really good match up and actually show cased why I think this deck will be really good in the coming meta. If anyone can let me know how exactly I could upload a cockatrice replay I would post them up here for examples. The jund guy had even wurmcoil engine and I was able to beat it through maneuvering my sacrifices to keep him from gaining life while I whittled him down with souls tokens.
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
2 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Woodland Cemetery
2 Gavony Township
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Blood Artist
4 Cartel Aristocrat
4 Dark Confidant
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Skirsdag High Priest
2 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
SPELLS (10)
4 Path to Exile
2 Bitterblossom
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Stony Silence
3 Zealous Persecution
Edit: I fotgot about the Forge-Tenders.
I'm working under the assumption that with the new bannings, Tron is going to be seeing a major uptick
Modern = RBW Aristocrats (Here's the primer thread I made!)
BGW Endless Renewal ( The primer right here! )
Legacy = UB Stiflenought
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In every game I have played so far Outpost Siege has been brilliant. Its been working out pretty much exactly how I thought it would on the drawing board. Top deck it late with a blood artist on board and you flat out just win. Play it on turn four against any of the B/G/X decks and start recouping card advantage. The flexibility that card has for this deck is just insane. Its also way way easier to cast then Phyrexian Arena, although it is 1 more mana. You guys should definitely consider it.
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Dragonskull Summit
3 Godless Shrine
3 Isolated Chapel
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
2 Wooded Foothill
Dudes
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Bloodsoaked Champion
4 Blood Artist
3 Pack Rat
4 Cartel Aristocrat
2 Falkenrath Aristocrat
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Path to Exile
4 Lingering Souls
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Æther Vial
2 Wear/Tear
2 Spellskite
2 Pyroclasm
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Sin Collector
2 Shatterstorm
2 Slaughter Games
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