I've begun the changes to the match ups. Right now it's really rough, but it does hit the important pieces of the match ups. I'll try to clean it up, and bring it up to a quality I'd enjoy as time goes one. Happy reading, and may the jank be with you!
If your having problems with aggro I would swap in a few Lotleth Trolls in place of your messengers. This will give you a chump blocker thats hard to trade with. I also have issues with fast aggro, which is why I find myself changing my sideboard to have 2-3 board wipes, and a play set of Disfigures along with at least one Dismember I have been siding out my Thoughtseizes in nearly all my aggro matches, save Infect, where I want to get rid of their Become Immense. I would rather have a really strong game again midrange, control, and combo, than a good pre board against aggro. I find most brews tend to be a midrange or combo deck, so I want to be good against the randoms at FNM or a local tournament.
I'll admit I'm having a hard time making the sideboard guide. In most match ups I only swap out on or two cards, until I run into aggro. The game plan against aggro is like I said above, a few less discard spells for more spot removal or wrath effects. Affinity get a special note, wher I still figuring out what to side out for my Chalice of the Voids. I lean towards discard, but well placed discard can do a lot to them. I just need to grind that match up to figure it out.
Another small update to the matchup/sideboard guide. I haven't added any new decks, but I did attempt to clean up the sideboarding guide up, and make it more usable. Good luck out there people!
I'll try absolutely with Lotleth Troll.
Geralf have only the problem that enter the battlefield tapped but it's a good card in this deck (for damage, undying, devotion).
Yeah, that's my biggest issue with the Messenger as well. If he came in untapped I would run him in a heartbeat. He gives us reach that we can really put to work, but because so much of our deck can't block, we need something that can. The troll can grow larger than the Messenger can, and has regenerate+trample, so you don't really miss out on too much damage. Acting like a discard out let to help us cheat Bloodghast into play is nice to.
In case I didn't tell you, I don't care about your opinion I just want your facts. And not the facts that make you seem smart. I want the ones that are actual facts.
They are all too slow or have too little impact. Between IoK, Thoughtseize, and Liliana of the Veil, we don't really need mass discard. I have been thinking about Tasigur's Cruelty, but I didn't have good luck with Murderous Cut in this deck, so I'm not sure how well it will work. The only on I would consider is Consume Spirit, but I would rather run Exsanguinate. Underworld Dreams is just too low impact for me. I have a play set, but can't find a home. I would rather spend turns 3 and up casting Liliana, Phyrexian Arena, Obliterator, or Gary.
hi, new poster for this thread. Just wanted to say nice primer, I have actually been looking for a way to gary the apostle but couldn't figure things out to save my life lol. I have a few decent decks already built and wanted to have something fun to shake up my weekly modern tournament I play since I only get to really play 1 day a week with work right now. but this is the next deck I was looking at.
I will try to come up with a deck list since im looking more towards mono black more than the Bg version.
Welcome to the thread! Most people play the Mono Black version of the deck right now. Back when DRS was a thing the BG version was more popular, and there was even a version with Pod running around. When you get a list post it up. I'm always looking for new card choices!
Has anybody tried a Zombie variant based around Blood Scrivener and Zombie Infestation?
Blood Scrivener
Gravecrawler
Street Wraith
Bloodghast
Zombie Infestation
Viscera Dragger
Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Something like that as a base. Red could be added for more speed but less focus on devotion (Simian Spirit Guide, Faithless Looting, Dangerous Wager, Tymaret).
So this is a base I thought of, this is 32 cards without lands, so I figure about 20-23 lands. Which would put this 52-55 cards with 5 opens slots that I was thinking would be removal. Let met know what you think this is just something I threw together looking at my stuff and looking at gatherer for decent mono black cards, didn't really search the hybrid mana cards at all.
P.S.
Cards that I was also considering for various reasons
I didn't have any luck with him, even when running Nythos to pump him. He is nice against things like BW Tokens, but he just didn't do enough for me. Feel free to give him a shot though, he could do well for you. I found in too many match ups that he just at a bolt or ran into a goyf
I didn't have any luck with him, even when running Nythos to pump him. He is nice against things like BW Tokens, but he just didn't do enough for me. Feel free to give him a shot though, he could do well for you. I found in too many match ups that he just at a bolt or ran into a goyf
So this is a base I thought of, this is 32 cards without lands, so I figure about 20-23 lands. Which would put this 52-55 cards with 5 opens slots that I was thinking would be removal. Let met know what you think this is just something I threw together looking at my stuff and looking at gatherer for decent mono black cards, didn't really search the hybrid mana cards at all.
P.S.
Cards that I was also considering for various reasons
I would try to pick up two Bloodsoaked Champions to help support Pack Rat, along with a few Mutavaults in your mana base. For the final card I would add in Profane Command just in case you need to discard your Gary to the Rat. That way you can get him back when needed. You do need to run some amount of removal. I would get rid of the Pilgrim, as good as the ability looks. it can be hard to make her connect, especially when going up against Goyfs and Rhinos. Dumping her will give us three spots for removal, but that is still a little light. Maybe sub out Lili Vess and one Thoughtseize for two more removal spells. That would bump you up to 5, which is a workable number.
Ok thanks like I said it was a very rough build. I'll look into some of those changes and see what I get. I do think I'll make some changes before proxies and testing the deck. I definatly think this deck no matter what version can be competitive
Huh, I've yet to have that issue, but my deck can be very aggresive. Recursion is huge when you are discarding creatures to Liliana, Lotleth troll, or Pack Rat. Discard a Bloodghast, drop a land, and you have out valued who your playing. Its even better when you are ticking up with Liliana.
Most mono black deck have the problems you talk about, but this is one of the few decks that can two for one early enough in the early game to keep up, eventually going into the long game, which is where we are kings.
Ehh, she is an all star in the deck. Between her and Lotleth Troll we are able to cheqt creatures into play. Most of these creatures are very hard to keep in the graveyard, which ensures a good gary drop. Liliana is very good, and while there are budget options for her (Hidden Horror/pack rat), they are budget options. I ran without her for a long time, and the deck still worked, but it wasn't nearly as consistant. You have to start running some three drop creatures that aren't as good.
Another way to get a touch of her effect is to run Necrogin Mists or Cunning Lithomancer. They will give you the discard per turn, but you loose out on the edict and eventual win con.
That is a great suggestion. I'll have to be adding these cards to the primer.
Edit: Well it might be a minute before I can add the cards. I keep getting an error when I try to edit the main post. Something about Non Latin something or other temporarily not allowed.
Hello everyone, this is the deck i'm currently trying to build.(Only missing phyrexian arenas and the gravecrawlers) I would appreciate any advices and suggestions, but please keep in mind i want this to be MONO-black.
Hello there!
I'm building this deck too. And I'm asking myself if Sidisi, Undead Vizier (maybe two of them) can be a good add to the deck.
We can search for a Gray Merc., a removal spell or one Nykthos. And she is a zombie and works with Gravecrawler...
So, what do you think? And what cards can be removed to this card take place?
Hello everyone, this is the deck i'm currently trying to build.(Only missing phyrexian arenas and the gravecrawlers) I would appreciate any advices and suggestions, but please keep in mind i want this to be MONO-black.
I like your deck quite a bit. You have a nice set of removal and plenty of discard. I would cut a few Obliterators for some Oona's Prowlers. She is a great discard outlet that will allow you to get way ahead of the competition.
Hello there!
I'm building this deck too. And I'm asking myself if Sidisi, Undead Vizier (maybe two of them) can be a good add to the deck.
We can search for a Gray Merc., a removal spell or one Nykthos. And she is a zombie and works with Gravecrawler...
So, what do you think? And what cards can be removed to this card take place?
I'm not a big fan of her. She has a nice ability, and body, but is 6 mana, which is more than I'm willing to pay for anything in the deck. Even with Nykthos, she would be a dead card far to often for my tastes. Feel free to give her a shot and report back, but I'm going to pass on her. I'm still upset we didn't get a pushed exploit creature.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
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I'll admit I'm having a hard time making the sideboard guide. In most match ups I only swap out on or two cards, until I run into aggro. The game plan against aggro is like I said above, a few less discard spells for more spot removal or wrath effects. Affinity get a special note, wher I still figuring out what to side out for my Chalice of the Voids. I lean towards discard, but well placed discard can do a lot to them. I just need to grind that match up to figure it out.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
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Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
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Yeah, that's my biggest issue with the Messenger as well. If he came in untapped I would run him in a heartbeat. He gives us reach that we can really put to work, but because so much of our deck can't block, we need something that can. The troll can grow larger than the Messenger can, and has regenerate+trample, so you don't really miss out on too much damage. Acting like a discard out let to help us cheat Bloodghast into play is nice to.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
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Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
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I will try to come up with a deck list since im looking more towards mono black more than the Bg version.
DECKS:
MODERN:
BUILT:
WBGJunkWBG
BURGrixis ControlBUR
BUILDING:
BGEldraziBG
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
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Blood Scrivener
Gravecrawler
Street Wraith
Bloodghast
Zombie Infestation
Viscera Dragger
Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Something like that as a base. Red could be added for more speed but less focus on devotion (Simian Spirit Guide, Faithless Looting, Dangerous Wager, Tymaret).
Edit-
The biggest issue with the assassin rout it the lack of recursion. That, in my opinion, is what makes this deck tic.
Cheeri0sXWU
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3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Ashling, the Extinguisher
4 Pack Rat
2 Grave Titan
4 Grave Crawler
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana Vess
So this is a base I thought of, this is 32 cards without lands, so I figure about 20-23 lands. Which would put this 52-55 cards with 5 opens slots that I was thinking would be removal. Let met know what you think this is just something I threw together looking at my stuff and looking at gatherer for decent mono black cards, didn't really search the hybrid mana cards at all.
P.S.
Cards that I was also considering for various reasons
DECKS:
MODERN:
BUILT:
WBGJunkWBG
BURGrixis ControlBUR
BUILDING:
BGEldraziBG
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
I would try to pick up two Bloodsoaked Champions to help support Pack Rat, along with a few Mutavaults in your mana base. For the final card I would add in Profane Command just in case you need to discard your Gary to the Rat. That way you can get him back when needed. You do need to run some amount of removal. I would get rid of the Pilgrim, as good as the ability looks. it can be hard to make her connect, especially when going up against Goyfs and Rhinos. Dumping her will give us three spots for removal, but that is still a little light. Maybe sub out Lili Vess and one Thoughtseize for two more removal spells. That would bump you up to 5, which is a workable number.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
DECKS:
MODERN:
BUILT:
WBGJunkWBG
BURGrixis ControlBUR
BUILDING:
BGEldraziBG
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Most mono black deck have the problems you talk about, but this is one of the few decks that can two for one early enough in the early game to keep up, eventually going into the long game, which is where we are kings.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Another way to get a touch of her effect is to run Necrogin Mists or Cunning Lithomancer. They will give you the discard per turn, but you loose out on the edict and eventual win con.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Edit: Well it might be a minute before I can add the cards. I keep getting an error when I try to edit the main post. Something about Non Latin something or other temporarily not allowed.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Geralf's Messenger
2 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Bloodghast
4 Gravecrawler
Enchantment (2)
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Dismember
2 Smother
2 Victim of Night
Sorcery (8)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
2 Profane Command
Land (23)
20 Swamp
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
3 Bile Blight
2 Duress
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Whip of Erebos
I'm building this deck too. And I'm asking myself if Sidisi, Undead Vizier (maybe two of them) can be a good add to the deck.
We can search for a Gray Merc., a removal spell or one Nykthos. And she is a zombie and works with Gravecrawler...
So, what do you think? And what cards can be removed to this card take place?
I like your deck quite a bit. You have a nice set of removal and plenty of discard. I would cut a few Obliterators for some Oona's Prowlers. She is a great discard outlet that will allow you to get way ahead of the competition.
I'm not a big fan of her. She has a nice ability, and body, but is 6 mana, which is more than I'm willing to pay for anything in the deck. Even with Nykthos, she would be a dead card far to often for my tastes. Feel free to give her a shot and report back, but I'm going to pass on her. I'm still upset we didn't get a pushed exploit creature.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ