I do love midrange matchups. They are always really close and interactive. Burn is the thorn in our side, and I think it'll always be that way. Combo is laughable against us, which is why I love playing this deck. At my LGS, people love trying to brew with random combo decks, and they never see me coming.
Edit:
I've never tried a vamp build, but it may be doable. With Looting and enough fetches you may be able to reset the top of your deck. My biggest issue with it is early game board wipes. Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods could really ruin your board presence and devotion in one fell swoop. While demigod doesn't really care about your board, Gary still does. If you are looking for something to replace your Whips I would suggest Blood Moon. It can be such a powerful lock piece.
Alright, first things first, way to go Goku! How did your deck do, and what do you think it's weak points are?
I'm now back in Ohio, and will be updating the primer over the next couple of days to include red splash ideas.
After a small amount of playtesting I came up with this list. It's supper grindy, attempting to lock out the other player with blood moon locking out cards, and Thougtseize/IoK taking the rest. It's more controlling than I first thought a red deck could be, but it feels like I'm playing a stax deck.
I really want to recommend Victim of Night over Terminate especially since you are running 4 Lightning Bolts and 3 Faithless Lootings. Believe me, I have considered it many times in my deck and more times than not I have run into situations where if I use a Mountain source for Lightning Bolt or Faithless Looting(the turn before) I am left with only Swamps mainly in the earlier stages of the game when doing combo plays as early as turn 3. There isn't many creatures in modern that Victim of Night can't hit. Olivia Voldaren is about the only threatening one I have seen. I've been trying to tweak the mana base so that the deck can run fluently, so far I am losing a lot of life early making some games a little uncomfortable. Also you should bump Faithless Looting to 4. The more you see it the better especially with only running 22 lands like I do. Faithless Looting will allow you to keep 1 land hands if you draw the Blackcleave Cliffs or Blood Crypt in your opening hand. This deck and my deck still fall to cards like Rest in Peace, Nihil Spellbomb, and other graveyard removal like Scavenging Ooze. I was thinking about swapping 2 of my Dragonskull Summits for 2 Godless Shrines so I could run Wear // Tears in the side. I am struggling so much to get the side board and mana base correct. There is a Modern PTQ on June 7th in my area and I really would like to have this deck ready and feel good about going into to the tournament.
I think Godless Shrines might be ok, as we don't have Abrupt Decay to deal with troublesome enchantments. I haven't gotten to play me red splash a lot, so you may be right with Victim. But with Blood Moon on the field, I usually have more than enough red mana, it's usually the black mana I have issues with. I'm still adjusting he mana base here and there to get it right, but that will probably take some time and doing.
I see the direction you are going with this deck. You want a anti-meta grind that doesn't play nice with the top decks. To kind of help you along the way until you resolve your Blood Moon. Try running 3 Fulminator Mages and maybe some Ashenmoor Lieges
Why use the SSGs? I would rather have some interaction or recursive creatures you keep the pressure up. While SSG does provide a speed boost, something that the mono black and BR version don't benefit from, I would rather have some sort of pressure than a temporary mana boost that you can't always use. Other than that it looks good. I would try to add Graven Cairns if you have access to any. That'll help you out big time when running a deck like this.
When siding into Blood Moon, I would remove at least one Obliterator. He is an absolute beast, but he really sucks when playing under a moon.
I've not played at all with the the B/R version, but I can't help but feel like the land count is a little low. About four 4-cmc spells, about five 5-cmc spells, but still only 22 lands. I'd be worried. Does it play ok? Can Faithless Looting really be relied on to smooth things out that much?
The land count does feel a little low from time to time. It should probably go up to 24 to be honest. I haven't gotten to play with the red version much, as I'm really trying to get into the zone with my BG deck for an upcoming event. If you are near Columbus Ohio SCG is doing an event June 6-7!
Haha. Sounds fun but Ohio is a long way from California. =D I'm going Grand Prix Las Vegas and the side events there are probably the next time I'm really going to get to play much modern. Hopefully I'll be able to catch a local event before then.
Question for anyone. I went ahead and dropped Birds of Paradise from my B/G list. The problem wasn't that they were bad, but I just didn't enjoy casting them. And now that I have Liliana as an option to add, well, I couldn't resist. =D So the question is, what do I replace the 3 Birds of Paradise with? I decided on two more Liliana of the Veil and a second Bloodsoaked Champion. I really like the Champion as an additional recursive threat but I'm considering dropping him for an another piece of spot removal (preferably something that can kill Olivia Voldaren). Any thoughts? Here is what my deck currently looks like...
If you are dropping the BoP, I would definitely add at least one more Lili, and then fill what ever is left with Bloodsoaked Champion. More devotion, more of the time!
What match ups should I be most concerned with as a mono black build? Basically what should I devote my sb to dealing with?
I haven't played since late 2012 so I basically have no modern experience. I have Lilianas and Obliterators from 2012 standard so I figured mono black devotion is a pretty cheap way to get into modern.
I'm surprised at the lack of Messengers I'm seeing in this thread.
Messengers would be better if they could block on turn three. I would keep an eye out for burn, Jund, and Leyline of sanctity. We don't have a ton of ways to gain life, Jund can side in grave hate and perma wipe our creatures, and leyline just shuts us down in a lot of ways. The deck has very even matchups across the field, but it can suffer from bad top decks from time to time. You usually don't want to see a thoughtseize on turn six for instance.
Just lean hard on disruption and cheat stuff out of the yard and you'll be in most games. After that its all interaction
I personally prefer Messenger over Bloodghast. Obviously not quite as resilient and a turn slower but his guaranteed reach outside of combat is huge. He's basically 4 damage without even having to attack and not as big a defensive liability at Bloodghast.
While I am new to modern I've been playing mono black variants since 1999. Reach outside of combat has always been black's ace in the hole, so 3-4 Messengers and Garys seem like they should be the focal point.
The land count is a bit lower than average but has worked quite alright with me. I chose Sign in Blood rather than Phyrexian Arena because that immediate draw is crucial. And it also won't kill me over time as Arena tends to do. Don't really care about devotion that much as this plays more like a straight up midrange deck that benefits from devotion. That singleton Sidisi, Undead Vizier has been pretty awesome. Wouldn't want more than one though. Lifebane Zombie from the side is amazing against Wilted Abzan. People just forgot about that guy it seems. The weakness of the deck I find is all stuff that hates on Pod decks. Its nice they're not around any longer.
The land count is a bit lower than average but has worked quite alright with me. I chose Sign in Blood rather than Phyrexian Arena because that immediate draw is crucial. And it also won't kill me over time as Arena tends to do. Don't really care about devotion that much as this plays more like a straight up midrange deck that benefits from devotion. That singleton Sidisi, Undead Vizier has been pretty awesome. Wouldn't want more than one though. Lifebane Zombie from the side is amazing against Wilted Abzan. People just forgot about that guy it seems. The weakness of the deck I find is all stuff that hates on Pod decks. Its nice they're not around any longer.
I think this looks cool. Very midrangy. I'm curious about the singleton Sidisi, Undead Vizier. I'm wondering if you ever search for anything other than Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Not sure what the advantage is of playing Sidisi over just a third Gary. I guess to combo with Geralf's Messenger for an extra two damage when he's saced? Doesn't seem worth the trouble to me but maybe I'm just not seeing it.
Quick sideboard question. My last sideboard slot I want to dedicate to graveyard hate. A friend of mine has a Gifts Ungiven deck and Iona, Shield of Emeria is pretty devastating when he can pull it off. I'm trying to decide between Tormod's Crypt and Leyline of the Void. I like the mana cost of Crypt, but I like the power of Leyline. Any thoughts?
Sidisi,Undead Vizier has been great as a huge wall and allows me to search for whatever I need to get over, whether it be a sideboard card in game 2 or 3, a removal spell, or like you said, a Gray Merchant of Asphodel to win the game. Having too many Grays in my deck have clogged up my hand when I have a minimal or nonexistent board presence. There's nothing like playing Sidisi, sacking Bloodghast, searching for Mutilate against a Zoo player. But like I have stated, no more than one.
Spellbomb is great, a card I tend to over look. I used to run a singleton Tormod's Crypt and two Bojuka Bogs to hate on graveyard decks. If they are big in the meta I could see throwing them back in the side, or even upping their numbers. I could see running one Sidisi, but I'm still not convinced. At least in the build I run. I focus on max devotion in the long run, were as many of these newer deck lists are leaning much more towards a more traditional MBC that can utilize devotion. Which ever is the more powerful is yet to be seen, but good works guys! Keep those brews coming in!
I don't run Grave Titan as there are more powerful things we can be doing. We have extremely powerful four and five drops, which makes it really hard for me to justify the titan.
Again, really excited about all of these new builds rolling in, I've got a lot of primer work ahead of me!
Oh, you know what? I totally was thinking Sidisi only searched for creatures. The utility totally makes more sense now.
Speaking of things I forgot about, Bojuka Bog! Putting one in the main and having one other card for graveyard hate in the side might be the ticket. The only question what to drop. I could potentially drop a black fetchland (like Polluted Delta), the single Mutavault I run, or maybe one of the two Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
I really like Grave Titan but there is just too much removal in modern to deal with him. He really needs the protection of Blue (or even White) to be successful.
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Edit:
I've never tried a vamp build, but it may be doable. With Looting and enough fetches you may be able to reset the top of your deck. My biggest issue with it is early game board wipes. Pyroclasm and Anger of the Gods could really ruin your board presence and devotion in one fell swoop. While demigod doesn't really care about your board, Gary still does. If you are looking for something to replace your Whips I would suggest Blood Moon. It can be such a powerful lock piece.
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I really want to recommend Victim of Night over Terminate especially since you are running 4 Lightning Bolts and 3 Faithless Lootings. Believe me, I have considered it many times in my deck and more times than not I have run into situations where if I use a Mountain source for Lightning Bolt or Faithless Looting(the turn before) I am left with only Swamps mainly in the earlier stages of the game when doing combo plays as early as turn 3. There isn't many creatures in modern that Victim of Night can't hit. Olivia Voldaren is about the only threatening one I have seen. I've been trying to tweak the mana base so that the deck can run fluently, so far I am losing a lot of life early making some games a little uncomfortable. Also you should bump Faithless Looting to 4. The more you see it the better especially with only running 22 lands like I do. Faithless Looting will allow you to keep 1 land hands if you draw the Blackcleave Cliffs or Blood Crypt in your opening hand. This deck and my deck still fall to cards like Rest in Peace, Nihil Spellbomb, and other graveyard removal like Scavenging Ooze. I was thinking about swapping 2 of my Dragonskull Summits for 2 Godless Shrines so I could run Wear // Tears in the side. I am struggling so much to get the side board and mana base correct. There is a Modern PTQ on June 7th in my area and I really would like to have this deck ready and feel good about going into to the tournament.
Liliana Vess seems a bit slow, but if you have a freeze on the board with Phyrexian Obliterator you can use your -2 ability to put Gray Merchant of Asphodel on the top of your deck and Faithless Looting into it the same turn and perhaps even play it granted Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx is on the field.
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4 Bloodghast
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Mogis, God of Slaughter
4 Demigod of Revenge
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Spells: 15
3 Faithless Looting
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Victim of Night
1 Whip of Erebos
Enchantments: 2
2 Phyrexian Arena
Planeswalkers: 4
4 Liliana of the Veil
Lands: 22
3 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
11 Swamp
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Mimic Vat
2 Illness in the Ranks
1 Bile Blight
1 Damnation
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Blood Moon
Here I tweaked my build a little to incorporate Blood Moon let me know what you think
When siding into Blood Moon, I would remove at least one Obliterator. He is an absolute beast, but he really sucks when playing under a moon.
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Reid Duke's Level One
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My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
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My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
4x Bloodghast
2x Bloodsoaked Champion
4x Gravecrawler
3x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Lotleth Troll
2x Phyrexian Obliterator
Spells (19)
4x Abrupt Decay
2x Victim of Night
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
3x Phyrexian Arena
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
1x Mutavault
4x Overgrown Tomb
2x Polluted Delta
4x Swamp
1x Twilight Mire
2x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Wooded Foothills
2x Deathmark
3x Disfigure
2x Ghost Quarter
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Thoughtseize
1x Tormod's Crypt
2x Vampire Hexmage
3x Vampire Nighthawk
My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
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I haven't played since late 2012 so I basically have no modern experience. I have Lilianas and Obliterators from 2012 standard so I figured mono black devotion is a pretty cheap way to get into modern.
I'm surprised at the lack of Messengers I'm seeing in this thread.
Just lean hard on disruption and cheat stuff out of the yard and you'll be in most games. After that its all interaction
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While I am new to modern I've been playing mono black variants since 1999. Reach outside of combat has always been black's ace in the hole, so 3-4 Messengers and Garys seem like they should be the focal point.
4 Bloodghast
4 Geralf's Messenger
2 Gray Merchant Of Asphodel
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
4 Victim of Night
3 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Sign in Blood
2 Lifebane Zombie
3 Rain of Tears
1 Mutilate
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Disfigure
2 Bile Blight
1 Ratchet Bomb
The land count is a bit lower than average but has worked quite alright with me. I chose Sign in Blood rather than Phyrexian Arena because that immediate draw is crucial. And it also won't kill me over time as Arena tends to do. Don't really care about devotion that much as this plays more like a straight up midrange deck that benefits from devotion. That singleton Sidisi, Undead Vizier has been pretty awesome. Wouldn't want more than one though. Lifebane Zombie from the side is amazing against Wilted Abzan. People just forgot about that guy it seems. The weakness of the deck I find is all stuff that hates on Pod decks. Its nice they're not around any longer.
I think this looks cool. Very midrangy. I'm curious about the singleton Sidisi, Undead Vizier. I'm wondering if you ever search for anything other than Gray Merchant of Asphodel. Not sure what the advantage is of playing Sidisi over just a third Gary. I guess to combo with Geralf's Messenger for an extra two damage when he's saced? Doesn't seem worth the trouble to me but maybe I'm just not seeing it.
My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
haha. Now I'm even more confused! =D
My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
I don't run Grave Titan as there are more powerful things we can be doing. We have extremely powerful four and five drops, which makes it really hard for me to justify the titan.
Again, really excited about all of these new builds rolling in, I've got a lot of primer work ahead of me!
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
Speaking of things I forgot about, Bojuka Bog! Putting one in the main and having one other card for graveyard hate in the side might be the ticket. The only question what to drop. I could potentially drop a black fetchland (like Polluted Delta), the single Mutavault I run, or maybe one of the two Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ