Thinking of trying this deck again, and I think all the different directions this deck is going are very interesting. I wanted to try and incorporate Grisly Salvage, to help find Gray Merchant Of Asphodel or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx when I need to, and that led me to trying Lingering Souls as another way to stall until our endgame gets online. Currently testing this list:
Thinking of trying this deck again, and I think all the different directions this deck is going are very interesting. I wanted to try and incorporate Grisly Salvage, to help find Gray Merchant Of Asphodel or Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx when I need to, and that led me to trying Lingering Souls as another way to stall until our endgame gets online. Currently testing this list:
The nice thing about all these decks is all the different versions look fun. I'm constantly intrigued! I don't have much to say about this version other than to point out how much I love seeing a full playset of Phyrexian Obliterator in a three color deck. =D I have never considered an Abzan version of this deck but Lingering Souls is awfully powerful. I suppose I might consider Golgari Charm over the singleton Orzhov Pontiff. How has the Pontiff worked out for you?
Yeah, Lingering Souls is very powerful indeed. I think I'd rather have the one Pontiff over Golgari Charm, at least in the main, because of the interactions with Grisly Salvage and Whip of Erebos. I do think I was running too many Disfigures though, and would probably run only two of those and bump Abrupt Decay up to three.
I don't know if this has been linked already here yet, but this UB list looks pretty clean in action and put up decent numbers online. The guy (Kalman Kovacs) who put the list together basically denounces devotion as part of the strategy, instead going all in on Obliterator. Looks fun though, a little different from the classic approach.
I don't know if this has been linked already here yet, but this UB list looks pretty clean in action and put up decent numbers online. The guy (Kalman Kovacs) who put the list together basically denounces devotion as part of the strategy, instead going all in on Obliterator. Looks fun though, a little different from the classic approach.
It looks like a good deck, but being a devotion deck and dropping devotion just don't mix. Still it's a good looking UB midrange deck, but I wouldn't call it a Devotion deck with out a single devotion card.
I strongly believe Messenger is the lifeblood of this deck. His resilience, contribution towards devotion, and reach outside of combat is too valuable not to play. Curving out perfectly with Messenger/Obliterator/Gary is mono black devotion's dream.
He forces your opponent into some really awkward situations. Many times my opponent refuses to even acknowledge his presence and they just let him through untouched. I guess they'd rather just race him than block, trade their only threat, and give me an even bigger guy + a shock.
Path is the only efficient way to deal with him in modern and they're hesitant to pull the trigger because they're terrified of blowing their path then having an Obliterator dropped on them next turn. And the last thing they want to do is spend 2 removal spells on him and still end up taking 4 to the face.
I've been testing a lot the past 2 weeks over cockatrice and this what I'm at right now.
I've been a mono black fanatic since I started playing competitively in 1999-2000 and IMO the key has always been reach outside of combat. You can't just rely on the combat phase. Gary, Messenger, and Profane Command get the job done for me in that department.
If he is working for you then run him, but I've had nothing but failure with him. Too many rounds vs Affinity or Zoo were I needed a good wall and he just didn't give it too me. But again, different metas require different set ups, if he is working the do it! The only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the lack of Bojuka Bog in the main deck. With 23 swamps I'm sure you could find room, and it does some serious work against a lot of decks.
I agree with needing a good blocker sometimes. Messenger certainly has his defensive weaknesses but he's at least better than Bloodghast. And I try to mitigate some of his weaknesses by giving myself the option to run out Nighthawk turn 3 instead.
I'm certainly open to Bog depending on the metagame.
This is what i've been playing at local FNM's when i can get to them. The store has the possibility of showing up with Abzan, Affinity, BW Tokens, American Control, Storm, and some very aggressive standard decks lightly converted to modern. When people refer to my deck though, they call it control, not midrange lol. "24swamps.dec that kills a lot of creatures, gets CA with bitterblossom/arena/whip then usually wins off the back of a drain life that happens to have legs all while making it difficult for me to hold cards in my hand" Not going to exactly argue with them, but I think the main difference here is that i'm running Gatekeeper of malakir over more aggressive options like Messenger and Opting out of using the aggressive 1 drops like Gravecrawler.
I tried Sidisi, but most of the time felt like I would rather just have gary. The Minister of Pain feels really good. Not as much devotion as Gatekeeper, but sweeping affinity or aggressive tokens is a really good deal at 3 mana. I recommend people in similar situations testing it out in the 75.
My major concern now is the SB. It's not really solid i don't think. Storm pretty much walks over me unless they stumble, and some players have taken interest in my Living End deck so i'm thinking i should probably find a way to fight graveyards out of the sideboard. My natural instinct is to jam Leyline of the Void as it provides solid devotion even in multiples, but not having it in the opening can make it extremely late to the party against storm or living end not to mention eating up 4 real pieces of real estate in the sideboard.
My sideboard is still shaky too so I can't really comment on that.
Main deck looks solid. Maybe Profane Command? Gatekeeper and Bloodghast are small dudes without evasion, giving 2-3 of those guys fear and hitting the opponent for life loss seems like it would be quite good on turns 4-6.
Nighthawk's flying is definitely one of the reasons I run her over Gatekeeper, so evasion is pretty important IMO.
you know i haven't had much issue with getting through for damage, but i lean heavily on Gary and BBlossom. I absolutely adore Vampire Nighthawk, but he's sadly not what i want to be doing with this deck. Just not enough impact for the mana invested, especially considering most of the time i play him i'm looking for some life gain and the ability to trade up, but both of those things requires him getting into combat.
I used to run Crusader's just to spite heavy r/w removal, but it's really hard to dedicate SB slots to him and he doesn't make the 75 because he just doesn't play well with Gary... it's odd but sometimes i wish it didn't have infect... or that the infect was optional. Sidenote, i've been saying in my circle that this deck really wants a BB 2/2 ravenous rats but i'm starting to think a decent Black Knight could really be useful too if it had the right set of protections to help it stick around.
As for the sideboard, how do you guys sideboard against straight up burn? My 24swamps.dec helps prevent me from just getting run over by it, but i could use some options as it's looking like it might start showing up.
We are really limited by what we can run for life gain. I focus on trying to minimize my damage from land and get a gary drop ASAP. You can side in Nighthawk, and something like Sun Droplet or Dragon's Claw but the artifacts take away from what you are doing. I like siding out Thoughtseize for Duress if your meta is burn infested.
I have a ptq and a gpt next month. I've been trying to find a build for mono black. Would midrange be better than full devotion and I can only pick up either 2 lils or 3 fulminator mage by the end of the month And I was wondering what is more important.
I would still really like to see a Dakmor Salvage in that list. Dredging to get Demigods in the yard just seems too good to pass up. Good lucks on your PPTQ!
I like Batterskull, especially if you have issues with Obliterator casting costs, but using a colorless creature is going to weaken Gary by a lot. May be good in the side you you have issues with control decks. I think you would need to run more lands to effectively run Raven's Crime, another place Dakmor would shine. My only fear would be running too many discard spells will give you bad top decks mid game, which can be dangerous for this style of deck. We need to pull ahead in the midgame, or we will fall behind. It's an issue the deck can already run into game one, and running Crime could make it much worse. Now it could be a great side board option if facing Burn, dumping Thoughtseizes for the crimes.
I would still really like to see a Dakmor Salvage in that list. Dredging to get Demigods in the yard just seems too good to pass up. Good lucks on your PPTQ!
I like Batterskull, especially if you have issues with Obliterator casting costs, but using a colorless creature is going to weaken Gary by a lot. May be good in the side you you have issues with control decks. I think you would need to run more lands to effectively run Raven's Crime, another place Dakmor would shine. My only fear would be running too many discard spells will give you bad top decks mid game, which can be dangerous for this style of deck. We need to pull ahead in the midgame, or we will fall behind. It's an issue the deck can already run into game one, and running Crime could make it much worse. Now it could be a great side board option if facing Burn, dumping Thoughtseizes for the crimes.
I have never been a big fan of the swords in modern. I've always felt that they were too slow and vulnerable without Stoneforge. That being said I do really like it's recursion ability, which could come in handy if you accidentally get all your Demigods in the yard, or want to get the win with Gary. It's worth the testing I think.
I like Erebos more than Disciple, mainly because Erebos is going to be much harder to get off the board. Erebos can also generate you CA, effectively replacing a Phyrexian Arena. While it's not the best replacement, Erebos is easy to turn into a creature in this deck, and a 5/7 is nothing to blink at. If I had to run one of the two, I would go with Erebos.
Is the red really worth the Looting/Bloodghast interaction? I guess that's my question.
Plus I don't see the point of your singleton Nythkos?
I've tried Beacon. It's not bad, but for my deck atleast Profane Command does everything Beacon wants to do and more usually. There's rarely a creature/artifact in their yard I want more than my own creatures. Plus Profane Command's lifeloss/fear can be huge.
Ratchet Bomb was added as an answer for enchantments and/or artifacts. Fetches are a god send as it thins out my deck to lower the chance for flooding. Shadow of Doubt replaces Sign in Blood as great tempo and a main board answer for Scapeshift. Bojuka Bog and Leechridden Swamp are great utility lands. I'm loving this deck!
Alright Oopssorryy, I think I have ironed out some of the inconsistencies in my build. I play tested with my friend tonight. He plays Grixis Delver and I ended up winning 13-1(matches with siding) against him. I am not sure how well I will do against Affinity or Burn, but hopefully it wont be horrible.
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4 Bloodghast
3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
1 Orzhov Pontiff
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
7
2 Phyrexian Arena
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Disfigure
4 Grisly Salvage
1 Hero's Downfall
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
23
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Godless Shrine
1 Isolated Chapel
4 Marsh Flats
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple of Malady
2 Temple of Silence
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Woodland Cemetery
The nice thing about all these decks is all the different versions look fun. I'm constantly intrigued! I don't have much to say about this version other than to point out how much I love seeing a full playset of Phyrexian Obliterator in a three color deck. =D I have never considered an Abzan version of this deck but Lingering Souls is awfully powerful. I suppose I might consider Golgari Charm over the singleton Orzhov Pontiff. How has the Pontiff worked out for you?
My 540 card Free-for-All Multiplayer Cube
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12501
It looks like a good deck, but being a devotion deck and dropping devotion just don't mix. Still it's a good looking UB midrange deck, but I wouldn't call it a Devotion deck with out a single devotion card.
Cheeri0sXWU
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He forces your opponent into some really awkward situations. Many times my opponent refuses to even acknowledge his presence and they just let him through untouched. I guess they'd rather just race him than block, trade their only threat, and give me an even bigger guy + a shock.
Path is the only efficient way to deal with him in modern and they're hesitant to pull the trigger because they're terrified of blowing their path then having an Obliterator dropped on them next turn. And the last thing they want to do is spend 2 removal spells on him and still end up taking 4 to the face.
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Thoughtseize
4 Phyrexian Arena
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Victim of Night
2 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Smother
2 Profane Command
1 Leechridden Swamp
23 Swamp
I've been testing a lot the past 2 weeks over cockatrice and this what I'm at right now.
I've been a mono black fanatic since I started playing competitively in 1999-2000 and IMO the key has always been reach outside of combat. You can't just rely on the combat phase. Gary, Messenger, and Profane Command get the job done for me in that department.
Cheeri0sXWU
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I'm certainly open to Bog depending on the metagame.
24 Swamp
Creatures 16
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Bloodghast
4 Gatekeeper of malakir
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
Permanents 10
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Bitterblossom
2 Phyrexian Arena
1 Whip of Erebos
4 Thoughtseize
4 Victim of Night
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
Work in Progress
3 Extirpate
2 Illness in the Ranks
3 Minister of Pain
3 Sudden Death
3 Disfigure
1 Whip of Erebos
This is what i've been playing at local FNM's when i can get to them. The store has the possibility of showing up with Abzan, Affinity, BW Tokens, American Control, Storm, and some very aggressive standard decks lightly converted to modern. When people refer to my deck though, they call it control, not midrange lol. "24swamps.dec that kills a lot of creatures, gets CA with bitterblossom/arena/whip then usually wins off the back of a drain life that happens to have legs all while making it difficult for me to hold cards in my hand" Not going to exactly argue with them, but I think the main difference here is that i'm running Gatekeeper of malakir over more aggressive options like Messenger and Opting out of using the aggressive 1 drops like Gravecrawler.
I tried Sidisi, but most of the time felt like I would rather just have gary. The Minister of Pain feels really good. Not as much devotion as Gatekeeper, but sweeping affinity or aggressive tokens is a really good deal at 3 mana. I recommend people in similar situations testing it out in the 75.
My major concern now is the SB. It's not really solid i don't think. Storm pretty much walks over me unless they stumble, and some players have taken interest in my Living End deck so i'm thinking i should probably find a way to fight graveyards out of the sideboard. My natural instinct is to jam Leyline of the Void as it provides solid devotion even in multiples, but not having it in the opening can make it extremely late to the party against storm or living end not to mention eating up 4 real pieces of real estate in the sideboard.
Thoughts?
Main deck looks solid. Maybe Profane Command? Gatekeeper and Bloodghast are small dudes without evasion, giving 2-3 of those guys fear and hitting the opponent for life loss seems like it would be quite good on turns 4-6.
Nighthawk's flying is definitely one of the reasons I run her over Gatekeeper, so evasion is pretty important IMO.
I used to run Crusader's just to spite heavy r/w removal, but it's really hard to dedicate SB slots to him and he doesn't make the 75 because he just doesn't play well with Gary... it's odd but sometimes i wish it didn't have infect... or that the infect was optional. Sidenote, i've been saying in my circle that this deck really wants a BB 2/2 ravenous rats but i'm starting to think a decent Black Knight could really be useful too if it had the right set of protections to help it stick around.
As for the sideboard, how do you guys sideboard against straight up burn? My 24swamps.dec helps prevent me from just getting run over by it, but i could use some options as it's looking like it might start showing up.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Godless Shrine
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
9 Swamp
Creature: 17
4 Bloodghast
2 Geralf's Messenger
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Erebos, God of the Dead
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Demigod of Revenge
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
2 Disfigure
1 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Victim of Night
Sorcery: 9
3 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
Planeswalker: 3
3 Liliana of the Veil
Artifact: 1
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Enchantment: 1
1 Phyrexian Arena
2 Dragon's Claw
2 Illness in the Ranks
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Molten Rain
2 Pyroclasm
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear // Tear
This is what I am taking to the my local PPTQ in June.
Edit: Cards I'm considering.... Ghostly Prison, Beacon of Unrest, Batterskull and Raven's Crime
I like Batterskull, especially if you have issues with Obliterator casting costs, but using a colorless creature is going to weaken Gary by a lot. May be good in the side you you have issues with control decks. I think you would need to run more lands to effectively run Raven's Crime, another place Dakmor would shine. My only fear would be running too many discard spells will give you bad top decks mid game, which can be dangerous for this style of deck. We need to pull ahead in the midgame, or we will fall behind. It's an issue the deck can already run into game one, and running Crime could make it much worse. Now it could be a great side board option if facing Burn, dumping Thoughtseizes for the crimes.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
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You think I could swap Erebos, God of the Dead for Disciple of Bolas?? I've run into a few games where he really puts me in a bind. What do you think about Sword of Light and Shadow?
Edit: Just for lulz Sorin's Vengeance
I like Erebos more than Disciple, mainly because Erebos is going to be much harder to get off the board. Erebos can also generate you CA, effectively replacing a Phyrexian Arena. While it's not the best replacement, Erebos is easy to turn into a creature in this deck, and a 5/7 is nothing to blink at. If I had to run one of the two, I would go with Erebos.
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
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Plus I don't see the point of your singleton Nythkos?
I've tried Beacon. It's not bad, but for my deck atleast Profane Command does everything Beacon wants to do and more usually. There's rarely a creature/artifact in their yard I want more than my own creatures. Plus Profane Command's lifeloss/fear can be huge.
4 Bloodghast
4 Geralf's Messenger
2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Victim of Night
3 Dismember
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Shadow of Doubt
14 Swamp
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Leechridden Swamp
3 Dragon's Claw
1 Damnation
2 Pithing Needle
3 Bile Blight
2 Lifebane Zombie
1 Disfigure
1 Ratchet Bomb
Ratchet Bomb was added as an answer for enchantments and/or artifacts. Fetches are a god send as it thins out my deck to lower the chance for flooding. Shadow of Doubt replaces Sign in Blood as great tempo and a main board answer for Scapeshift. Bojuka Bog and Leechridden Swamp are great utility lands. I'm loving this deck!
Cheeri0sXWU
Reid Duke's Level One
Who's the Beatdown
Alt+0198=Æ
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Polluted Delta
1 Godless Shrine
2 Dragonskull Summit
1 Bojuka Bog
7 Swamp
Creature: 17
4 Bloodghast
3 Geralf's Messenger
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Demigod of Revenge
3 Disfigure
1 Slaughter Pact
3 Victim of Night
1 Hero's Downfall
Sorcery: 11
4 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Unburial Rites
Planeswalker: 3
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Slaughter Games
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Whip of Erebos
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Illness in the Ranks
2 Wear // Tear
Alright Oopssorryy, I think I have ironed out some of the inconsistencies in my build. I play tested with my friend tonight. He plays Grixis Delver and I ended up winning 13-1(matches with siding) against him. I am not sure how well I will do against Affinity or Burn, but hopefully it wont be horrible.