Now I know that UB Control is not really a thing that is talked about in Modern. I did a search and all the threads talking about it are dead with last posts from last year and all that.
I do keep my a eye a bit on Daily events on MTGO though and I saw someone piloting an UB Control deck to a 3-1 finish. It took me a while to find his list but I found it now.
And since this looks like a solid deck concept, how do you feel about ashiok here? I think it would be a better MD choice than jace if you didn't need the drawpower; or a compliment to jace even. And I am more lijely to go with something like sphinx of jwar isle as a 1-of in the 75. It is the harder to deal with threat.
But back on topic I think it could be a real metagame contender. But my card choices are conceptual and also may be metagame oddities. I suggest cards to the Faeries thread all the time, but maybe my perspective of the current meta is warped. I guess the next question brings us to the deck creation UB control thread, but, what kind of UB control do you think could truly work right now.
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Decks I have in my bag of tricks- Needless to say, someone who wants to play will probably have a deck UB/x Faeries UR Storm XURWB Affinity G Elves UW control
This deck is not just lucky, it is the real deal. Osman Ozguney, a big faeries player, has been running this on modo with good results.
Now it is our job to tune the lists and unleash it upon the masses.
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Level 1 Judge
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU "Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR "The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
UB is my jam. Favorite color combination in magic. UB control? Now you're talking - favorite archetypical deck in magic.
I'm not convinced UB control can really exist in modern in the current environment (But I'd be happy to be wrong on this). My personal opinion is that you'd need a very impactful engine to make it work and I don't think that really exists right now. But I'll give some thoughts on it anyway.
Thoughts on this deck:
- Lack of Tasigur is a bit alarming. I'm guessing Batterskull is meant to be in that same slot as far as a game-ending beatstick is concerned (and Batterskull is a very good card, don't get me wrong), but I think Tasigur's body + potential card advantage engine is something a UB deck should have access to.
- I'd prefer IoK as a playset over Thoughtseize just because Thoughtseize is very silly against burn. But I do think having some targeted discard is ultimately necessary for a control deck in modern right now to even exist, so I'd go with the playset of IoK, personally.
- Downfall is just too expensive most of the time and not worth it unless you're facing down a Lilly or Karn, which is the only time I'd want it. I think having a Dismember or Smother would be better than Downfall 95% of the time. The one of Bile Blight also just looks flatout bizarre in this build, I have to think Smother would be better in almost every scenario.
- I'm not a fan of Mana Leak but that's probably personal preference talking. It has its place of course, I just find the card very unflexible.
- I would strongly consider moving Clique to the mainboard. Its a fairly powerful card that doesn't quite get the respect it deserves. Its disruption, takes out an x/3 in combat and in the right situation, can be a clock on its own.
- This deck looks like it just flatout runs out of gas so easily in attrition based matchups, with no engine available for it to "go over the top". I'm moreso in favor of running a more impactful "Big" draw spell like Sphinx's Rev in a control list (Closest thing you have in UB is Blue Sun's Zenith) that lets you go way over the top of something like Junk or Jund. An argument can be made for something like Think Twice that hits land drops a lot easier, but I just like the ability to go "Big" in a long game.
Of course, it did do well in a daily, so its not like this is ultimately worthless, but I don't think its going to go long at a GP or anything like that. But maybe with some tuning it could get better with other cards being released down the road.
While it's true that this list doesn't run any big draw spells he does run 2 Jace, Architect of Thought though who can fill the role of card advantage engine.
That is true. I'm not sure how often Jace lives long enough to give a lot of card advantage over a long game as I haven't played this deck personally. Maybe Jace AoT does the job better than I think it does.
4 Geralf's Messenger
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Tombstalker
Creatures [11]
2 Liliana of the Veil
Planeswalkers [2]
1 Damnation
3 Disfigure
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Thoughtseize
4 Victim of Night
Spells [24]
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Drowned Catacomb
4 Polluted Delta
5 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
Lands [23]
Deck Total [60]
Sideboard
2 Countersquall
1 Disfigure
2 Dragon's Claw
1 Drown in Sorrow
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spellskite
This is a list that went 4-0 recently and was discussed by Frank Lepore on TCGPlayer. Love the look and play of this deck.
And it looked like Frank had a blast playing it in the matches he posted with the article. he also said that he could picture Snapcaster Mage finding a couple spots in the deck, though wasn't sure what to cut exactly for them. Also the Sideboard looks ok, but it definitely has some flexibility for adjustments. looks fun though, and it might just have some game.
However note that I am an objectively bad deckbuilder, so this is probably a horrifically awful list. The lone Mind Bend in the sideboard is a preventative measure against Choke (that is, you name "Forests" when you cast this and watch the player using Choke cry).
A slightly older version of this build I had was running Meloku and he certainly wasn't bad but I think Batterskull is just better most of the time.
I've won my share of games with this, but I'm not going to be so presumptuous to assume that this is at all competitive, so make of it what you will. In all likelihood, its objectively bad, so if that is the case I really wouldn't be shocked.
However note that I am an objectively bad deckbuilder, so this is probably a horrifically awful list. The lone Mind Bend in the sideboard is a preventative measure against Choke (that is, you name "Forests" when you cast this and watch the player using Choke cry).
A slightly older version of this build I had was running Meloku and he certainly wasn't bad but I think Batterskull is just better most of the time.
I've won my share of games with this, but I'm not going to be so presumptuous to assume that this is at all competitive, so make of it what you will. In all likelihood, its objectively bad, so if that is the case I really wouldn't be shocked.
Don't be so hard on yourself, rule number one is still have fun. But or course, being competitive is very fun. I don't think this list is too crazy off the rails as you presume it to be, but there is some room for alterations. First, serum visions dude, 4 of them. I would cut the two zeniths, 1 damnation, and 1 Dismember possibly to make room. Visions is too good not to be in any control deck (or any deck with islands really) in modern. Plus they are simply fantastic with Snapcaster Mage . Spell Pierce could also be nice in here...over one of the negates maybe?
However note that I am an objectively bad deckbuilder, so this is probably a horrifically awful list. The lone Mind Bend in the sideboard is a preventative measure against Choke (that is, you name "Forests" when you cast this and watch the player using Choke cry).
A slightly older version of this build I had was running Meloku and he certainly wasn't bad but I think Batterskull is just better most of the time.
I've won my share of games with this, but I'm not going to be so presumptuous to assume that this is at all competitive, so make of it what you will. In all likelihood, its objectively bad, so if that is the case I really wouldn't be shocked.
Don't be so hard on yourself, rule number one is still have fun. But or course, being competitive is very fun. I don't think this list is too crazy off the rails as you presume it to be, but there is some room for alterations. First, serum visions dude, 4 of them. I would cut the two zeniths, 1 damnation, and 1 Dismember possibly to make room. Visions is too good not to be in any control deck (or any deck with islands really) in modern. Plus they are simply fantastic with Snapcaster Mage . Spell Pierce could also be nice in here...over one of the negates maybe?
I'm hard on myself because I'm hard on everyone else (that and I think pretty much everyone in magic barring a few pros are bad at deckbuilding, myself included). Plus, I have a hard time breaking out of the notion that not paying a Tier 1 deck makes you a scrub and bad at magic and this is my attempt at doing so.
Being able to manipulate your draws via Visions means nothing when Junk and Jund are going to be ripping your hand into oblivion and you have nothing left in your hand by turn 3. I'd rather go over the top. Plus I'm not a fan of the card in general. If you absolutely have to run a cantrip, I'd much rather run Anticipate than what I consider to be a bad cantrip.
Well it's a can trip with scry 2, so it does more than just replace itself. But yeah I've been seeing anticipate in a lot of lists lately, great for digging and at instant speed. Zenith just looks slow, and a step down version of sphinx's rev, but I've never casted the card so you might have more insight on its utility here.
BSZ is really the only way you're going to be able to beat heavy amounts of discard in UB, hence its inclusion. Without it, you run out of gas and die against Junk while Rhinos are beating your face in.
It started a pure blue mill deck and morphed into Dimir Control. It is still in the early testing phase and I'm looking for feedback.
Do you have any decks to review or questions?
I can see the remnants of your mill deck here -
My advice is to either go all the way on mill or cut the mill cards. Hedron Crab and Jace's Phantasm are doing absolutely nothing for you in a deck looking to win through damage.
Thanks for the comment. Actually milling is the main way this deck wins right now. The one change I was considering is swapping the Spellstutter Sprites for Duskmantle Guildmages to go the the mill->damage route too. But that would take away from the control aspect of the deck.
I'm going to try the above list at my local WNM (Wednesday Night Modern) event tonight and see how it goes. I'll post here tomorrow.
I agree with Niallplaysmagic's your deck trying to do to much. With or u/b control we want to counter/spot removal and board wipe as much as possible. Then land our win cons i.e Grave Titan
Also I have my main u/b control list i. Trying to improve as much as possible. I'll post it later
My challenge when building U/B control is that if we're just going to have counters, spot removal, and mass removal, then why not just play U/W instead? White gives access to Path to Exile, Supreme Verdict, lots of lifegain options and other goodies like Leyline of Sanctity. So when building a U/B control, I focused on things black could do in modern that white couldn't. Where I ended up was this:
The main premise of the deck was to focus on a lot of disruption that wasn't just removing creatures, hence the Surigcals, Inquisitions, and Shadow of Doubts in the main deck. All the one mana cards fill up the graveyard fast, so Tasigur is a natural fit, and it goes great with Stubborn Denials. Game 1 aggro matches can be rough with so little space in the maindeck dedicated to removal, but that's why Engineered Explosives made it to the main deck, as a lot of those aggro decks will end up being weak to the explosives.
I played the deck I made and had fairly good results (thanks to Thing in the Ice and Ashiok) but I've decided to take the advice listed above and concentrate completely on control.
I'm considering swapping out the Smother and the 2 Go for the Throats for 3 Murderous Cuts. I'm also considering swapping out the 3 Peeks for either Stubborn Denial or Spell Snare.
What does everyone think of this updated control only deck?
I played the deck I made and had fairly good results (thanks to Thing in the Ice and Ashiok) but I've decided to take the advice listed above and concentrate completely on control.
I'm considering swapping out the Smother and the 2 Go for the Throats for 3 Murderous Cuts. I'm also considering swapping out the 3 Peeks for either Stubborn Denial or Spell Snare.
What does everyone think of this updated control only deck?
Well - if I were building pure UB control it'd look something like this.
- The 5 mana planeswalkers are difficult to win with on their own and hard to resolve.
- You're all-in on thing in the ice being your only win-con. If he get's surgical'd your ability to win plummets.
- Spellstutter isn't that great without other faerie support.
- Peek doesn't do much for you because you aren't trying to accelerate into anything. If you're running it to flip TITI in a hurry then Gitaxian Probe is a pretty strict upgrade.
Those are just my thoughts! Good luck!
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I do keep my a eye a bit on Daily events on MTGO though and I saw someone piloting an UB Control deck to a 3-1 finish. It took me a while to find his list but I found it now.
Here it is
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/283281#online
1 Grave Titan
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (30)
2 Damnation
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Thoughtseize
1 Bile Blight
3 Cryptic Command
1 Hero's Downfall
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
4 Mana Leak
1 Murderous Cut
3 Spell Snare
3 Victim of Night
2 Batterskull
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Sunken Ruins
2 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge
2 Watery Grave
1 Thoughtseize
2 Disfigure
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Sower of Temptation
3 Vendilion Clique
So did this guy just get lucky which is a very real possibility or is there something to be discovered and explored here?
Discuss
But back on topic I think it could be a real metagame contender. But my card choices are conceptual and also may be metagame oddities. I suggest cards to the Faeries thread all the time, but maybe my perspective of the current meta is warped. I guess the next question brings us to the deck creation UB control thread, but, what kind of UB control do you think could truly work right now.
UB/x Faeries
UR Storm
XURWB Affinity
G Elves
UW control
Now it is our job to tune the lists and unleash it upon the masses.
Level 2 in progress...
UUU Merfolk UUU
"Above the waves you may be mighty indeed, but down here you belong to me."
-Empress Galina
UBR Cruel Control UBR
"The essence of every world, every spell, and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
-Nicol Bolas
I would also toss in some more fetchlands and try to make Empty The Pits work.
Twitch: gamerchamp
Modern: UGrand Architect, UBTezzeret Control, UBWRG Bridge From Below (Dredge)
Legacy: UWGTrue-Name Bant
I'm not convinced UB control can really exist in modern in the current environment (But I'd be happy to be wrong on this). My personal opinion is that you'd need a very impactful engine to make it work and I don't think that really exists right now. But I'll give some thoughts on it anyway.
Thoughts on this deck:
- Lack of Tasigur is a bit alarming. I'm guessing Batterskull is meant to be in that same slot as far as a game-ending beatstick is concerned (and Batterskull is a very good card, don't get me wrong), but I think Tasigur's body + potential card advantage engine is something a UB deck should have access to.
- I'd prefer IoK as a playset over Thoughtseize just because Thoughtseize is very silly against burn. But I do think having some targeted discard is ultimately necessary for a control deck in modern right now to even exist, so I'd go with the playset of IoK, personally.
- Downfall is just too expensive most of the time and not worth it unless you're facing down a Lilly or Karn, which is the only time I'd want it. I think having a Dismember or Smother would be better than Downfall 95% of the time. The one of Bile Blight also just looks flatout bizarre in this build, I have to think Smother would be better in almost every scenario.
- I'm not a fan of Mana Leak but that's probably personal preference talking. It has its place of course, I just find the card very unflexible.
- I would strongly consider moving Clique to the mainboard. Its a fairly powerful card that doesn't quite get the respect it deserves. Its disruption, takes out an x/3 in combat and in the right situation, can be a clock on its own.
- This deck looks like it just flatout runs out of gas so easily in attrition based matchups, with no engine available for it to "go over the top". I'm moreso in favor of running a more impactful "Big" draw spell like Sphinx's Rev in a control list (Closest thing you have in UB is Blue Sun's Zenith) that lets you go way over the top of something like Junk or Jund. An argument can be made for something like Think Twice that hits land drops a lot easier, but I just like the ability to go "Big" in a long game.
Of course, it did do well in a daily, so its not like this is ultimately worthless, but I don't think its going to go long at a GP or anything like that. But maybe with some tuning it could get better with other cards being released down the road.
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Tombstalker
Creatures [11]
2 Liliana of the Veil
Planeswalkers [2]
1 Damnation
3 Disfigure
1 Dispel
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Thoughtseize
4 Victim of Night
Spells [24]
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Drowned Catacomb
4 Polluted Delta
5 Swamp
4 Watery Grave
Lands [23]
Deck Total [60]
Sideboard
2 Countersquall
1 Disfigure
2 Dragon's Claw
1 Drown in Sorrow
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Shadow of Doubt
2 Spellskite
This is a list that went 4-0 recently and was discussed by Frank Lepore on TCGPlayer. Love the look and play of this deck.
And it looked like Frank had a blast playing it in the matches he posted with the article. he also said that he could picture Snapcaster Mage finding a couple spots in the deck, though wasn't sure what to cut exactly for them. Also the Sideboard looks ok, but it definitely has some flexibility for adjustments. looks fun though, and it might just have some game.
Original article here:
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12501
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Snapcaster Mage
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
Planeswalkers
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
Other stuff
3 Damnation
4 Cryptic Command
2 Spell Snare
4 Dismember
3 Smother
2 Blue Sun's Zenith
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Negate
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
1 River of Tears
4 Drowned Catacomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Swamp
5 Island
3 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Bribery
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Curse of Death's Hold
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Mind Bend
2 Spellskite
However note that I am an objectively bad deckbuilder, so this is probably a horrifically awful list. The lone Mind Bend in the sideboard is a preventative measure against Choke (that is, you name "Forests" when you cast this and watch the player using Choke cry).
A slightly older version of this build I had was running Meloku and he certainly wasn't bad but I think Batterskull is just better most of the time.
I've won my share of games with this, but I'm not going to be so presumptuous to assume that this is at all competitive, so make of it what you will. In all likelihood, its objectively bad, so if that is the case I really wouldn't be shocked.
Don't be so hard on yourself, rule number one is still have fun. But or course, being competitive is very fun. I don't think this list is too crazy off the rails as you presume it to be, but there is some room for alterations. First, serum visions dude, 4 of them. I would cut the two zeniths, 1 damnation, and 1 Dismember possibly to make room. Visions is too good not to be in any control deck (or any deck with islands really) in modern. Plus they are simply fantastic with Snapcaster Mage . Spell Pierce could also be nice in here...over one of the negates maybe?
I'm hard on myself because I'm hard on everyone else (that and I think pretty much everyone in magic barring a few pros are bad at deckbuilding, myself included). Plus, I have a hard time breaking out of the notion that not paying a Tier 1 deck makes you a scrub and bad at magic and this is my attempt at doing so.
Being able to manipulate your draws via Visions means nothing when Junk and Jund are going to be ripping your hand into oblivion and you have nothing left in your hand by turn 3. I'd rather go over the top. Plus I'm not a fan of the card in general. If you absolutely have to run a cantrip, I'd much rather run Anticipate than what I consider to be a bad cantrip.
I'm building a modern UB control deck. Here's the list:
3 Thing in the Ice
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Hedron Crab
2 Jace's Phantasm
Spells (26)
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Mana Leak
4 Countersquall
3 Despise
1 Darkblast
3 Smother
1 Go for the Throat
4 Thought Scour
4 Surgical Extraction
4 Polluted Delta
4 Drowned Catacomb
1 Watery Grave
8 Island
4 Swamp
1 Liliana Vess
1 Ravenous Trap
2 Dismember
1 Despise
2 Dispel
1 Pyschic Rebuttal
2 Far//Away
2 Into the Roil
2 Hurkyll's Recall
1 Elixir of Immortality
It started a pure blue mill deck and morphed into Dimir Control. It is still in the early testing phase and I'm looking for feedback.
Do you have any decks to review or questions?
My Decks:
I can see the remnants of your mill deck here -
My advice is to either go all the way on mill or cut the mill cards. Hedron Crab and Jace's Phantasm are doing absolutely nothing for you in a deck looking to win through damage.
I'm going to try the above list at my local WNM (Wednesday Night Modern) event tonight and see how it goes. I'll post here tomorrow.
My Decks:
Also I have my main u/b control list i. Trying to improve as much as possible. I'll post it later
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Grave Titan
1 Tombstalker
Other Spells (30)
3 Disfigure
4 Serum Visions
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Mana Leak
3 Shadow of Doubt
4 Cryptic Command
1 Batterskull
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Sunken Hollow
2 Watery Grave
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Island
3 Swamp
2 Echoing Truth
3 Smother
3 Languish
2 Tribute to Hunger
2 Dispel
3 Duress
The main premise of the deck was to focus on a lot of disruption that wasn't just removing creatures, hence the Surigcals, Inquisitions, and Shadow of Doubts in the main deck. All the one mana cards fill up the graveyard fast, so Tasigur is a natural fit, and it goes great with Stubborn Denials. Game 1 aggro matches can be rough with so little space in the maindeck dedicated to removal, but that's why Engineered Explosives made it to the main deck, as a lot of those aggro decks will end up being weak to the explosives.
Here's the updated deck:
4 Thing in the Ice
4 Spellstutter Sprite
Spells (31)
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Liliana Vess
2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
2 Mana Leak
4 Countersquall
2 Into the Roil
2 Doom Blade
2 Go for the Throat
1 Smother
3 Despise
3 Duress
4 Serum Visions
3 Peek
4 Polluted Delta
4 Drowned Catacomb
1 Watery Grave
8 Island
4 Swamp
2 Mutilate
2 Hero's Downfall
2 Far//Away
4 Dimir Charm
2 Hurkyll's Recall
3 Dispel
I'm considering swapping out the Smother and the 2 Go for the Throats for 3 Murderous Cuts. I'm also considering swapping out the 3 Peeks for either Stubborn Denial or Spell Snare.
What does everyone think of this updated control only deck?
My Decks:
Well - if I were building pure UB control it'd look something like this.
2 Thing in the Ice
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
2 Vedalken Shackles
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Serum Visions
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Go for the Throat
1 Dismember
2 Disfigure
1 Doom Blade
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Cryptic Command
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
2 Sunken Hollow
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Academy Ruins
6 Island
2 Swamp
Or something like that.
Some problems I see with your list:
- The 5 mana planeswalkers are difficult to win with on their own and hard to resolve.
- You're all-in on thing in the ice being your only win-con. If he get's surgical'd your ability to win plummets.
- Spellstutter isn't that great without other faerie support.
- Peek doesn't do much for you because you aren't trying to accelerate into anything. If you're running it to flip TITI in a hurry then Gitaxian Probe is a pretty strict upgrade.
Those are just my thoughts! Good luck!