not going to hit many fetchlands if you sit ons uppression field until you see something better, and having it act like a juiced up leonin arbiter is half the reason it looks solid for modern :/
I got in more testing and cut the vials altogether and went down to 2 druids. This is not a merfolk deck that draws lots of cards to capitalize on vial - the card was regularly something I'd use once or twice and then have it be redundant at best and useless at worst. The chance to flash something in for surprise +1+1 counters is almost always irrelevant (and you can already threaten this via coco) so its all about trying to get value out of an instant speed vindicator trigger. It just doesn't come up enough to justify the card. I dropped 4 vials for 3 hardened scales and 1 mana tithe to see how that goes.
But really I'm hoping the new set will give us 2-3 cards that can plug these holes effectively. My non-11 counter guys are 4x evangel, 1x mirror entity, 1x ondu cleric, 2x harabaz druid atm and I would not be particularly sad to cut the druids if I could get another 2 drop that worked with +1+1 counters.
Along the same vein I tried inspiring call too much work and too slow - and if its in the sideboard it might as well be return to the ranks.
I'm trying to go the distance with GW but it may come to adding another colour to get max value out of hardened scales - blue for shapeshifter/umara raptor perhaps.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
There are so few allies to work with that I think we need to know the rest of the new ones before figuring out where Gideon fits for real. But just speculating I think you're right that he is up against talus paladin in current lists. I run 2 paladins right now and would certainly swap 1 for a gideon, and probably both. We can't glut on 4 drops because of company, and ondu cleric can provide the lifegain the paladin does if we want it in the MD.
I'm fairly confident Gideon's worth a slot or two just for providing some resilience to sweepers (they wrath, we crack them for 5) and generating triggers like crazy.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
veteran warleader is complete garbage for modern. Also with the two rally cards spoiled so far I am very skeptical that we are going to get a slam dunk ally for this deck. The lantern guide might squeak in over talus paladin for being found by company and giving champions lifelink (3 mana 3/2 rally: lifelink) but talus was already a 1 or 2 of anyways and at least talus had synergy with hardened scales.
I'm thinking gavony township needs to be ghost quarter. I was looking at gavony as a harabaz druid mana sink and hardened scales synergy, but I think tron is a very hard matchup and being able to buy even just 1 turn before they ugin or wurmcoil is going to be win vs lose.
I'm down to 2 druids and that's only because of the possibility of turn 3 company. It has been hands down the least impressive card in the deck when it isn't being completely broken. There are mana-light hands where 2 turns of tapping druid vomits like 5 guys onto the board, but more often it gets 1 use max and then we have enough mana to cast anything we draw anyways. Druid looks better in a 3 colour build where it more effectively fixes mana and maybe even fules a mana sink besides the mirror entity (i.e. kessig wolf run).
What this deck really needs is a legendary 2 or 3 mana that does something nasty. What BFZ is probably going to give us is some janky non-stacking keywords like trample, vigilance, and first strike.
I've tried a bit of mikaeus, the lunarch as its bananas with hardened scales and acts as a 1-time sink for druid mana, but its also a non-bo flip off of company and won't trigger allies on its own.
If BFZ doesn't deliver for GW I'd seriously consider adding blue for jwari shapeshifter and phantasmal image. We'd pick up like unified will for the tron match and combo decks which could be big.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I'm glad I've found this thread. I'm a huge Allies fan and I'm pumped to get some new Allies for Modern in BFZ! Anyway, I wanted to post this list that 4-0'd a daily yesterday. It's pretty sweet!
Pretty sure the newly spoiled Lantern Scout replaces Talus Paladin.
3 mana compared to 4 in aggro is pretty significant.
Not a CoCo list, but here's my Ally list:
veteran warleader is complete garbage for modern. Also with the two rally cards spoiled so far I am very skeptical that we are going to get a slam dunk ally for this deck. The lantern guide might squeak in over talus paladin for being found by company and giving champions lifelink (3 mana 3/2 rally: lifelink) but talus was already a 1 or 2 of anyways and at least talus had synergy with hardened scales.
I'm thinking gavony township needs to be ghost quarter. I was looking at gavony as a harabaz druid mana sink and hardened scales synergy, but I think tron is a very hard matchup and being able to buy even just 1 turn before they ugin or wurmcoil is going to be win vs lose.
I'm down to 2 druids and that's only because of the possibility of turn 3 company. It has been hands down the least impressive card in the deck when it isn't being completely broken. There are mana-light hands where 2 turns of tapping druid vomits like 5 guys onto the board, but more often it gets 1 use max and then we have enough mana to cast anything we draw anyways. Druid looks better in a 3 colour build where it more effectively fixes mana and maybe even fules a mana sink besides the mirror entity (i.e. kessig wolf run).
What this deck really needs is a legendary 2 or 3 mana that does something nasty. What BFZ is probably going to give us is some janky non-stacking keywords like trample, vigilance, and first strike.
I've tried a bit of mikaeus, the lunarch as its bananas with hardened scales and acts as a 1-time sink for druid mana, but its also a non-bo flip off of company and won't trigger allies on its own.
If BFZ doesn't deliver for GW I'd seriously consider adding blue for jwari shapeshifter and phantasmal image. We'd pick up like unified will for the tron match and combo decks which could be big.
I agree that Warleader isn't great against BGx decks, but it is great against Grixis (It can only be hit by terminate normally) and pretty much every other deck that isn't trying to control you.
And, yeah, allies really needs more +1,+1 counter stuff.
What this deck really needs is a legendary 2 or 3 mana that does something nasty. What BFZ is probably going to give us is some janky non-stacking keywords like trample, vigilance, and first strike.
To be fair, if any of them give us "Allies you control have haste", I'm going to run Rally the Ancestors and go bonkers.
Well the lantern guide creates a bit of an issue in that gideon looked like something you could run instead of talus paladin - but that's kind of the same slot we want to give up for the lantern guy too.
I may be too hard on warleader but effects that are only good when you are sitting on a large board are generally not where you want to be in this format. If my opponent goes bolt-snap-bolt warleader probably goes down to a pearled unicorn and unfortunately I need more than that for 3 mana. I'm also only tapping creatures to feed his abilities if I just cast them and don't need to block which will happen, but not every turn by any means.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
A few more games in and I've been less impressed with ondu cleric MD and more impressed with talus paladin. Pretty sure lantern scout is actually going to be a slam dunk in this deck as a 4 of in the 75. Probably 2 MD 2 Side if you expect any reasonable amount of affinity/zoo/burn. The opponent's plan is often to just chump block your giant bodies and race you with burn/flyers/whatever. Dropping the paladin into play and gaining shots of 10+ life per turn is just monstrous in those matchups. The paladin gaining that kind of life each turn also kind of puts ondu cleric's 3-4 life triggers to shame, especially when you tick the paladin up to 4/5 or higher and start beating down.
hardened scales has also been disgusting most of the time. T1 scales into t2 freeblade+freeblade, or t1 champion into t2 scales+freeblade. The beauty of it is that even if its not a turn 1 play, going turn 1 nothing, turn 2 kazandu, turn 3 scales+survivalist still immediately gives you 2 bonus counters from the scales - and odds are your turn 4 is going to add 2-6 more bonus ones - especially if you can hit your land drop and company into 2 more bodies.
I'm actually a little higher on rally too if we get another good one - ideally at 1 or 2 mana - champion of the parish is usually just an excellent 1 drop int his deck but occasionally not being an ally is noticeable - when we just need one more evangel trigger to punch through or we coco into two champions and get negligible triggers.
And while this sideboard is probably servicable it provides nothing for what I consider one of or the toughest matchup for allies: Tron - especially GR but really any flavour. What green/white cards help with this matchup? Id say gaddock teeg but it gets pyroclasmed? ><
And while this sideboard is probably servicable it provides nothing for what I consider one of or the toughest matchup for allies: Tron - especially GR but really any flavour. What green/white cards help with this matchup? Id say gaddock teeg but it gets pyroclasmed? ><
Yeah, your sideboard looks fine. Only thing I'd do though is take out Kataki for another Ondu cleric, since that card can gain +10 life oifver the course of a game, especially with multiples.
What do you want Leyline for? With Ondu Cleric and Lanter scout, the matchup seems very good.
I really don't know heh, I just figured I'd throw a list out there as a starting point and ask for other people's sideboard plans/thoughts.
In my list I run 2 paladins and 1 cleric maindeck and assume I'll have 2-3 more clerics in the sideboard. This is largely for burn and other aggro decks, although I certainly don't think of cleric as an anti-affinity card. The count of clerics really comes down to how good/bad the burn matchup is. In my experience playing burn if an opponent gains 6 life that's usually a loss. I am pretty sure once we get lantern scout we'll just drop paladins and clerics altogether and the question will be how to distribute you 4 scouts between the main and side. So I'm not going to stress much about my lifegain/burn board options.
Spellskite can be coco'd and hits bogles, twin, and infect - decks that can give us serious trouble in game 1. Until the matchup picture beoomes clearer I think 3 spellskites is a must to improve those matchups.
Rest in peace - a lot of lists I see have scavenging ooze instead. Ooze has synergy with coco and scales, but we're a rare deck that actually doesn't use its graveyard at all and can run RiP with impunity. Also rest in peace is WAY harder for the snap/command decks to get rid of than a scooze (terminate, bolt, etc) and can virtually end the game on turn 2 against stuff like grishoalbrand or living end.
Stony Silence / Kataki are obviously for affinity - I figured a kataki is good because we can company into it, but stony silence is often the hammer against affinity so playing 0 copies can't be right. stony also has applications against tron so i figure 2.
Now the 4 leylines: I basically figure this as a catch-all combo stopper. It stops ad nauseum's win con (although they usually run patrician's scorn or something to get through it) it stops scapeshift, any random mill or discard deck, etc. And all that being said I still doubt its correct as leyline is primarily for burn and we already have a bunch of lifegain for burn.
I also think the board should have something to actually destroy artifacts, as otherwise we straight up fold to an ensnaring bridge.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I also think the board should have something to actually destroy artifacts, as otherwise we straight up fold to an ensnaring bridge.
Run into Ghostly Prison at all? That could be rough too.
Any PWs problematic for this deck? Wildspeaker and Gideon seem like a problem.
Oblivion Ring and Beast Within seem like fine considerations. I'm actually partial to Beast Within in aggro decks. Hitting my own land on opponent's eot has proven pretty useful more than a few times in other decks I've played.
After experimenting with different builds, I feel that Aether vial and Collected company don't get on well with each other. At first I played versions that had both, but had better results testing them separately. Although both build's core is the same, depending on what you want to play (vial or company) the rest of the deck has to be slightly different, in order to get the full potential of the artifact or the instant.
When building around vial bear that:
- Gets fueled by Inspiring call. Company is strictly better than call, but company puts cards into play, not in our hand, which is what we want with vial, otherwise it becomes pretty useless after 3-4 turns.
- Vial allows untapped mana to play some interactive spells, like removal, protection or hate.
- While both vial and company let us put allies on the battlefield at instant speed, with vial we can choose which ally and when we want to put it into play, getting the most from allies like Kabira evangel, lantern scout, jwari shapeshifter(copying any of thre previous mainly), Akoum battlesinger or, if necessary hihgland berserker
When building around company:
- Include Harabaz druid. The earlier you can cast company, the better. Mirror entity as a single can help too.
- Since it is impossible to know (in an allies build) what we are going to get from company, I guess going all-in aggresively is better. The more allies that get +1/+1, the better. Creatures like Taurean mauler and Adaptive automatonare better here than Kabira, Lantern or battlesinger (sometimes), since power is useful everytime they hit the battlefield, but protection and lifelink are usless from an eot company.
Mirror Entity's ability can be activated for zero, and thanks to the automaton, your team will still be alive.
So can't you cast Turntimber Ranger, activate Entity for zero (turning the wolf into an Ally), and go infinite with ally triggers?
P.S. I know it's three cards, and one of them is five mana, but it's an interesting angle of attack I think this deck could take. Especially if you think having an alt win like the mill is a good option.
I posted this in the other thread but this one looks to be more active. I was looking to build a creature aggro deck since I just finished my tempo modern deck. So I decided to go allies considering nobody really plays them and there is a lot of undervalued strength in these cards especially with the release of collected company. I however chose to change up the deck and decided to go with Bant allies over Naya allies. Personally I like the blue allies a little better, especially with how versatile jwari shapeshifter is. Anyway here is the list, I love hearing feedback. Also McScoop new Gideon is gonna be amazing in this deck as a 1 of, he is gonna be a wumbo combo with halimar excavator
Stellar logic. All decks that will ever be tier 1 or 2 have already been discovered. Might as well lock up the forum here and stop brewing everyone. Format solved.
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I got in more testing and cut the vials altogether and went down to 2 druids. This is not a merfolk deck that draws lots of cards to capitalize on vial - the card was regularly something I'd use once or twice and then have it be redundant at best and useless at worst. The chance to flash something in for surprise +1+1 counters is almost always irrelevant (and you can already threaten this via coco) so its all about trying to get value out of an instant speed vindicator trigger. It just doesn't come up enough to justify the card. I dropped 4 vials for 3 hardened scales and 1 mana tithe to see how that goes.
But really I'm hoping the new set will give us 2-3 cards that can plug these holes effectively. My non-11 counter guys are 4x evangel, 1x mirror entity, 1x ondu cleric, 2x harabaz druid atm and I would not be particularly sad to cut the druids if I could get another 2 drop that worked with +1+1 counters.
Along the same vein I tried inspiring call too much work and too slow - and if its in the sideboard it might as well be return to the ranks.
I'm trying to go the distance with GW but it may come to adding another colour to get max value out of hardened scales - blue for shapeshifter/umara raptor perhaps.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I'm fairly confident Gideon's worth a slot or two just for providing some resilience to sweepers (they wrath, we crack them for 5) and generating triggers like crazy.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Oran-Rief Survivalist
3 Harabaz Druid
3 Veteran Warleader
4 Kabira Evangel
Other Spells
4 Hardened Scales
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
2 Dromoka's Command
3 Temple Garden
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Gavony Township
5 Plains
4 Forest
4 Ondu Cleric
3 Suppression Field
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Spellskite
2 Return to the Ranks
If you aren't using Hardened scales, start, its what gives the deck most of it's explosiveness.
I'm thinking gavony township needs to be ghost quarter. I was looking at gavony as a harabaz druid mana sink and hardened scales synergy, but I think tron is a very hard matchup and being able to buy even just 1 turn before they ugin or wurmcoil is going to be win vs lose.
I'm down to 2 druids and that's only because of the possibility of turn 3 company. It has been hands down the least impressive card in the deck when it isn't being completely broken. There are mana-light hands where 2 turns of tapping druid vomits like 5 guys onto the board, but more often it gets 1 use max and then we have enough mana to cast anything we draw anyways. Druid looks better in a 3 colour build where it more effectively fixes mana and maybe even fules a mana sink besides the mirror entity (i.e. kessig wolf run).
What this deck really needs is a legendary 2 or 3 mana that does something nasty. What BFZ is probably going to give us is some janky non-stacking keywords like trample, vigilance, and first strike.
I've tried a bit of mikaeus, the lunarch as its bananas with hardened scales and acts as a 1-time sink for druid mana, but its also a non-bo flip off of company and won't trigger allies on its own.
If BFZ doesn't deliver for GW I'd seriously consider adding blue for jwari shapeshifter and phantasmal image. We'd pick up like unified will for the tron match and combo decks which could be big.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
1 Abzan Falconer
4 Akoum Battlesinger
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Kabira Evangel
4 Kazandu Blademaster
1 Mirror Entity
4 Oran-Rief Survivalist
Instant (8)
4 Collected Company
4 Path to Exile
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
2 Mutavault
3 Plains
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Temple Garden
4 Windswept Heath
Other (4)
4 Aether Vial
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Celestial Purge
2 Dromoka's Command
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Ondu Cleric
2 Rending Volley
2 Rest in Peace
2 Return to the Ranks
1 Wear // Tear
Niran was the one who piloted this deck to 4-0 yesterday. Thought I would share.
3 mana compared to 4 in aggro is pretty significant.
Not a CoCo list, but here's my Ally list:
4 Hada Freeblade
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Ondu Cleric
2 Mirror Entity
3 Adaptive Automaton
3 Kabira Evangel
3 Talus Paladin
4 Path to Exile
3 Brave the Elements
4 Cloudshift
3 Oblivion Ring
Lands (23)
15 Plains
4 Mutavault
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
And, yeah, allies really needs more +1,+1 counter stuff.
To be fair, if any of them give us "Allies you control have haste", I'm going to run Rally the Ancestors and go bonkers.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
I may be too hard on warleader but effects that are only good when you are sitting on a large board are generally not where you want to be in this format. If my opponent goes bolt-snap-bolt warleader probably goes down to a pearled unicorn and unfortunately I need more than that for 3 mana. I'm also only tapping creatures to feed his abilities if I just cast them and don't need to block which will happen, but not every turn by any means.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
hardened scales has also been disgusting most of the time. T1 scales into t2 freeblade+freeblade, or t1 champion into t2 scales+freeblade. The beauty of it is that even if its not a turn 1 play, going turn 1 nothing, turn 2 kazandu, turn 3 scales+survivalist still immediately gives you 2 bonus counters from the scales - and odds are your turn 4 is going to add 2-6 more bonus ones - especially if you can hit your land drop and company into 2 more bodies.
I'm actually a little higher on rally too if we get another good one - ideally at 1 or 2 mana - champion of the parish is usually just an excellent 1 drop int his deck but occasionally not being an ally is noticeable - when we just need one more evangel trigger to punch through or we coco into two champions and get negligible triggers.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
3 spellskite
3 rest in peace
2 stony silence
2 ondu cleric
1 kataki, war's wage
I have not been that impressed with suppression field sadly but maybe it just needs more time.
I am also not sure when/where I want return to the ranks.
And while this sideboard is probably servicable it provides nothing for what I consider one of or the toughest matchup for allies: Tron - especially GR but really any flavour. What green/white cards help with this matchup? Id say gaddock teeg but it gets pyroclasmed? ><
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
What do you want Leyline for? With Ondu Cleric and Lanter scout, the matchup seems very good.
In my list I run 2 paladins and 1 cleric maindeck and assume I'll have 2-3 more clerics in the sideboard. This is largely for burn and other aggro decks, although I certainly don't think of cleric as an anti-affinity card. The count of clerics really comes down to how good/bad the burn matchup is. In my experience playing burn if an opponent gains 6 life that's usually a loss. I am pretty sure once we get lantern scout we'll just drop paladins and clerics altogether and the question will be how to distribute you 4 scouts between the main and side. So I'm not going to stress much about my lifegain/burn board options.
Spellskite can be coco'd and hits bogles, twin, and infect - decks that can give us serious trouble in game 1. Until the matchup picture beoomes clearer I think 3 spellskites is a must to improve those matchups.
Rest in peace - a lot of lists I see have scavenging ooze instead. Ooze has synergy with coco and scales, but we're a rare deck that actually doesn't use its graveyard at all and can run RiP with impunity. Also rest in peace is WAY harder for the snap/command decks to get rid of than a scooze (terminate, bolt, etc) and can virtually end the game on turn 2 against stuff like grishoalbrand or living end.
Stony Silence / Kataki are obviously for affinity - I figured a kataki is good because we can company into it, but stony silence is often the hammer against affinity so playing 0 copies can't be right. stony also has applications against tron so i figure 2.
Now the 4 leylines: I basically figure this as a catch-all combo stopper. It stops ad nauseum's win con (although they usually run patrician's scorn or something to get through it) it stops scapeshift, any random mill or discard deck, etc. And all that being said I still doubt its correct as leyline is primarily for burn and we already have a bunch of lifegain for burn.
I also think the board should have something to actually destroy artifacts, as otherwise we straight up fold to an ensnaring bridge.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
You can always run ancient grudge in the naya build. Other options could be nature's claim or naturalize.
Run into Ghostly Prison at all? That could be rough too.
Any PWs problematic for this deck? Wildspeaker and Gideon seem like a problem.
Oblivion Ring and Beast Within seem like fine considerations. I'm actually partial to Beast Within in aggro decks. Hitting my own land on opponent's eot has proven pretty useful more than a few times in other decks I've played.
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
When building around vial bear that:
- Gets fueled by Inspiring call. Company is strictly better than call, but company puts cards into play, not in our hand, which is what we want with vial, otherwise it becomes pretty useless after 3-4 turns.
- Vial allows untapped mana to play some interactive spells, like removal, protection or hate.
- While both vial and company let us put allies on the battlefield at instant speed, with vial we can choose which ally and when we want to put it into play, getting the most from allies like Kabira evangel, lantern scout, jwari shapeshifter(copying any of thre previous mainly), Akoum battlesinger or, if necessary hihgland berserker
When building around company:
- Include Harabaz druid. The earlier you can cast company, the better. Mirror entity as a single can help too.
- Since it is impossible to know (in an allies build) what we are going to get from company, I guess going all-in aggresively is better. The more allies that get +1/+1, the better. Creatures like Taurean mauler and Adaptive automatonare better here than Kabira, Lantern or battlesinger (sometimes), since power is useful everytime they hit the battlefield, but protection and lifelink are usless from an eot company.
Adaptive Automaton gives your whole team a static +1/+1 bonus.
Mirror Entity's ability can be activated for zero, and thanks to the automaton, your team will still be alive.
So can't you cast Turntimber Ranger, activate Entity for zero (turning the wolf into an Ally), and go infinite with ally triggers?
P.S. I know it's three cards, and one of them is five mana, but it's an interesting angle of attack I think this deck could take. Especially if you think having an alt win like the mill is a good option.
UB Tezzerator
UBW Gifts
B 8Rack
Legacy
RB Goblins
Modern
RBig RedR
GMean GreenG
WWW AlliesW
BGScavengeBG
WUVenser SilenceWU
EDH
RWAurelia 1 vs 1RW
GWURoonGWU
GWSaffiGW
4 Hada Freeblade
3 Halimar Excavator
2 Harabaz Druid
4 Jwari Shapeshifter
2 Ondu Cleric
1 Mirror Entity
4 Oran-Rief Survivalist
4 Kazandu Blademaster
4 Kabira Evangel
Spells
3 Path to Exile
4 Collected Company
4 Hardened Scales
3 Windswept Heath
3 Temple Garden
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Hallowed Fountain
3 Scavenging Ooze
2 Ondu Cleric
3 Negate
1 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Spellskite
2 Return to the Ranks