Today in local 13 person games I went 1-1-2 (win-tie-lost).
(infect) 1-2 loss, 2-0 (mill), 0-2 (UR control) and 1-1 (jund). Mostly won every game where I was able to play evolution. UR control I mostly lost because very bad draws, both game had to mulligan to the 5 cards and were not able cast really anything. Against infect there was great change to win the last game, I had melira, sylvok outcast and thalia, guardian of thraben, but he was able to kill both. Then I was even able to play orzhov pontiff, but those were not enough.
After all, I was very satisfied for those games where I had evolution in my hand. Somehow I felt that there's not enough card advantage, so I'm gonna change to next tournament murderous cut to abzan charm
Shame about the mulligans :/ Variance can hit this deck pretty hard sometimes, although generally I feel that we mulligan really, really well.
Abzan Charm is an interesting idea. I was pondering on if I want to swap the 3rd Abrupt Decay for something else, but Decay is such a powerhouse sometimes. It's a little on the clunky side, but I might give Charm a try during the next days.. can reset Kitchen Finks and Murderous Redcap, pump our guys, and even more carddraw is always welcome.
Haven't gotten much testing in, but so far I like Wall of Omens and Liliana, the Last Hope quite a bit. Tireless Tracker is a house if she isn't killed immediately, but also pretty awkward in games where you don't have time to set up and grind.
Also I just read a post bringing up Mikaeus, the Unhallowed for Abzan Coco. I completely forgot about the card, might be an interesting option for more combo-focused high-end builds. Triple black cost messes with our manabase however. Still, interesting idea.
About Mikaeus, the unhallowed, six mana is a lot. Okey it gives everyone the undying but I think that with six mana there's better choises like grave titan or wurmcoil engine which truly can win the game and are easier to cast.
I also decided to cut reveillark and bring one dromoka's command in. Dromoka's command and Phyrexian obliterator seems way too good to not to be used Okey... I admit that I live in some kind of dreamland with that, but command isnt so bad card and mostly in other decks it have been very useful.
Tomorrow there are bigger games (atm 90 people have been check in), so that will be good test for the deck.
So has anyone tried Abzan Charm as replacement for Cord of Calling yet?
I remember the card was tested back in Pod times. The card didn't really make the cut, even though Chord was slowly cut from the deck at some point. But Charm was close to playable.
The format (and the archetype) is different nowadays, so maybe Charm is worthwhile. In the Chord slot, Thoughtseize wanna say a word too. If you stick with Charms, maybe a Path can go.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I went today 90 players game 1-5, without few mistakes and with little better luck It could be also 6-0.
1. round (Jund) 2-1
He won first match, two second mathes I was able to drop Sigarda which brought me the win. (also with little help with bobs
2. round (Junk) 1-2
First match he won quiet easily, second match I was able to win easily with few voices and sigard. Third match I had good pressure but then I run out gas at the same time when he found 3 tarmos. I could find answers and was too slow to find combo so I lost.
3. round (Bant human) 1-2
First match easy win for humans, they growed too big and I could find finks or anything else. Second match I had very good draws, few finks, few voices, stangleroot and linvala. I was able to use gavony to win the match. Third match I had to mulligan once, started with poor hand with removal. Could find any low mana creatures enough fast so he won.
4. round (melira pod) 1-2
First match my mistake... third turn I had ooze in my hand, I went to combat with strangleroot and he cast company. Found finks and viscera... and the combo was online. I should cast ooze first. Second game I was able to disturb enemy's hand and were able to beat him down with angel and strangleroot. Third match I couldn't find enough creature so he just beat me down with gavony and 4 creatures.
5. round (8rack) 1-2
First match I didnt have any change, I lost my hand fast and the end game fast. Second match I started with dromoka's command and pridemage, was able to decay lilli so I run to victory quiet easy. Third match I had good start... the situation was 15-1 for me. He was able to sac my creatures with lilli about 3 times, after that I found only lands and evolutions and he was able to beat me down with mutavault.
6. round (grixis delver) 1-2
Opening match he beat me quiet easily with delvers, I couldnt find any thing to air fight. Second match I evolved Sigarda to battlefield and was able to beat the enemy. Third match he beat me down to 6 with snapcaster and delver. I evolved sigarda and gave decay to delver. Next turn he attacked with snapcaster and kalitas, I blocked with ooze and sigarda, after the combat he plays anger of gods and cleans the table. In my turn I played rhino, he found gurmag angler. He ratched bomb my rhino and beat me down because I counld find more creatures or any answers.
After all, quiet happy for the deck. The result could have been totally different with little luck Abzan charm was good in those moment I had it my hand.
I didn't like only having access to 4 Tutors, especially since I can't get them back. While Liliana, the Last Hope is a hell of a card, and will stay in my 75 for the time being, she doesn't replace Eternal Witness + Chord of Calling in the grindy matches. Also it's important to realise how much better Chord actually is than Eldritch Evolution in said grindfests. It's a great topdeck, while Evolution does nothing if you don't already have a board (which is often hard in those games).
Wall of Omens and Tireless Tracker did what they were supposed to do, and I'm not sure yet if Tracker doesn't have a place in the deck. Maybe I'll add her back if I end up cutting the 2 Abzan Charm.
Now, I'm adding the Melira Combo to the deck to have a faster out against Valakut decks. Might hurt the BGx matchup (combo is hard to assemble and neither Melira nor Seer do much on their own), but might also improve the Infect matchup a bit.
Everyone is talking about Abzan Charm, so I'm also trying that one. Have only goldfish'd a bit with it so far but it seems... tricky. The effects are powerful, but the card is somewhat clunky and hard to cast. It should however make our BGx and Control matchups better, as it kills almost everything in BGx (no Bob, but Kalitas, Anafenza and potentially Ooze, which are the biggest offenders) and gives us more instant-speed ways of advancing our game against Control. Draw 2, Witness, Draw 2 again seems dece We'll see how it goes.
Also swapped 2 Pithing Needle to keep the 2 Ghostly Prison in after moving Lili back to the sideboard. Might play around with the exact configuration some more tho, not having Needle feels weird.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Shame about the 1-5, mate :/ You had some pretty annoying matchups that can shut down Evolution pretty well (BGx, 8rack, Delver potentially as well). Good to hear you're happy with the deck tho Mistakes happen and we learn from them.
nothing bad to say about filigree familiar, I most evoluted it to Sigarda. Card advantage is always good so that how it was necessary. I need more games to test, I also changed one familiar to wall of omens which blocked quiet well few time attackers.
I'm also thinking to add more charms. I dont worry about how clunky it is, but it gives lot of choices to how to use it and it's very flexible in every situation.
So I'm curious... what's people's opinion on Linvala, Keeper of Silence against Jund? Do you bring it in post-board? Do you take it out? Leave it in? Why? Why not?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
So I've played around with different versions of the deck, testing a few things.
Abzan Charm was alright against Jund, crap against Affinity and pretty much just there in many other MU's. It's a cool grindy card, but we rarely get to grind, and we're already really good at it. Also both Chord of Calling and Liliana, the Last Hope are better at grinding than Charm.
I also tried Lili + Chord mainboard, which gives crazy grinding potential, but BB is sometimes tricky to cast, and doesn't quite synergize with the 6 tutors well enough to have her in the main. She's probably amazing in a more grindy, less toolboxy deck though.
Right now I'm trying a slight blue splash for Glen Elendra Archmage and Geist of Saint Traft. Glen to help stop spell combo and planeswalkers, Geist to help beat down Tron and Shift faster. Not sure about Geist, but Glen is quite a house in my experience. Also made some other changes, ending up with this list:
Cutting the Melira combo again, as it didn't feel consistent enough to matter too much against Valakut and the likes. Murderous Redcap is a nice card tho, I'm quite curious how much I'll miss him.
Another card I tried was Archangel of the Tithes, which - while doable - is often NOT easy to cast on time (WWW) and only taxes attackers for 1, which can be pretty meaningless dependent on the matchup. While she IS a flyer with a huge butt and plays defense very well, not being able to kill the opponent with her without losing the Propaganda effect pushes her over the edge for me.
That benig said, having a tutorable Propaganda felt really good, as it gives us game against the fast Aggro decks (Fish ). Initially I tried Magus of the Moat, which has crazy potential, but is hit by Twisted Image and can be ignored by most Affinity draws. Silent Arbiter seems pretty decent but has the problem of not doing anything against Infect, where Magus or Propaganda might be able to slow them down (or lock them out, depending on their draw). I ended up with Windborn Muse as a nice middle ground. She's a flyer that doesn't die to Twisted Image and taxes for 2 no matter what.
I added Restoration Angel back in to have more air troops and to evolve Kitchen Finks into Resto, blinking Finks and hopefully winning against Burn on the spot. Also the possibility of blinking a persisted Glen Elendra Archmage is just too sexy not to have it
Cataclysmic Gearhulk is in the main to see if he is worth a slot in the 75 (well, 76 in my case) at all, or if he'll be too slow to stop wide Affinity/Dredge/Fish/Token draws. I think the ceiling of the card is quite insane, but it's a quite specific effect with a very real drawbacks for us, as we often also go wide.
I was also looking for a suiteable 6-drop, but haven't really found anything except Grave Titan, which finishes games fast once you're there, but obviously takes a lot to get into play first.
The higher curve (and potential 6-drop) comes from the realisation that our deck is almost 50% mana, so we draw a lot of lands and dorks without any mana sinks except for Gavony Township. Hangerback Walker, Rhys, the Redeemed and the likes come to mind, but I'm unsure if they'll be good enough. Tireless Tracker could also fill that slot very well. Maybe it's unnecessary anyhow, but it's something I was thinking about.
Opinions? Thoughts? How is the deck performing for you guys?
@Pokken - did you have a chance to test your Mikaeus Company/Evo idea? If so, how did it go?
Did some more testing.
Blue splash is probably not worth it. Geist of Saint Traft never did anything and was never tutored up so far, Glen Elendra Archmage could have been great in certain spots but was just a little too late. Having to have one mana up for her to do anything makes it tricky to get her out in time I feel.
Cut both of them, replaced the Breeding Pool with a third Noble Hierarch and added a Selfless Spirit and an Anafenza, the Foremost. Also cut one Voice of Resurgence for a Gaddock Teeg. Not the biggest fan of the guy in general, but I want to test him vs Dredge (Conflagrate) and maaaybe Infect (Become Immense). Probably switching him to the sideboard later, but if he turns out to have enough meaningful splash utility (Infect, Tron, Scapeshift, Wraths) he might just stay. Basically want to see how much worse than a random Voice he is in MU's where neither is especially relevant.
Not sure about Cataclysmic Gearhulk yet, but the effect seems pretty good so far.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
I was going to write that blue source is not worth of it. With that this deck starts to go too many ways and some cards will be hard to cast.
Last small games yesterday I thought that I miss card draw, so I started to figure out/test two abzan charm. Also thinking the night's whisper, but atm I think that I have more use to charm. I will still use only 4 eldritch evolution to tutor.
Gaddock teeg is nice, but I think that it's totally sideboard material. Againts infect we have much more to use (especially melira, after that seizes, aidolon, thalia, spellskite and so on.)
Teeg is there to give us a game 1 against Dredge, everything else is a bonus. Why do you think he's only sideboard material? Not disagreeing per se, but interested in your reasoning.
Card draw is iffy. We run ~29 mana sources between lands and dorks, all of which become dead draws real quick in this format. We also run a bunch of guys that do nothing in the wrong situation, making raw card draw pretty risky. What do you want to find with the card draw?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Teeg is there to give us a game 1 against Dredge, everything else is a bonus. Why do you think he's only sideboard material? Not disagreeing per se, but interested in your reasoning.
Card draw is iffy. We run ~29 mana sources between lands and dorks, all of which become dead draws real quick in this format. We also run a bunch of guys that do nothing in the wrong situation, making raw card draw pretty risky. What do you want to find with the card draw?
I want to draw more eldritch evolution or cards to solve problems. For example, I played against infect, I had pretty good opening hand but no tools, with card draw I could have been found one of those 13 cards which will handle the problem. Have been felt same way earlier, we need to dig in to find evolution or our answers. The card draw is not ever dead choice.
Also with card draw we can pass faster those dead cards to find next ones. Without we can easily be dead before we will find any of answers. I mean we have to have card advantage that we can use toolbox.
I agree that finding tutors is important. I disagree with running spells to find cards to find other cards instead of just running more tutors. If you want to find creatures Chord of Calling beats Abzan Charm all day.
Our card advantage traditionally comes from running creatures that do something when they enter the battlefield, and ways of re-using those creatures (Witness, Resto, etc.)
You ostly want to find Abrupt Decays and Path to Exiles to answer threats tho, not creatures, so I'll agree that you need the card draw a lot more than I do. After playing very midrange-y versions of this deck however I don't think it's the right approach. Running a small suite of spell-based answers and creatures to get those spells back (in addition to running creatures to deal with problems in the first place) seems superior in this style of deck.
I guess if you really want to draw a lot of cards, maybe give Tireless Tracker a try. She's tutorable, kills the opponent and draws cards all game instead of once.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
I think chord of calling is too slow for my meta and to tutor Tireless Tracker feels bad choice in situation where I need answers. If we need to tutor we will probably find something more valuable(silver bullet).
But tomorrow I have more test games, I will see what's the result and how was Abzan charm maybe I will test version with chords soon. We'll see.
Went 2-3 in a GPT today, beating Mono U Delver and Grixis Control, losing to Tron, Affinity and UW Thopter Combo (screwed g3 up by chording wrong). Mulligan'd a lot. Teeg did nothing all day (got double-clasm'd g1 by Tron) but also wasn't ever a problem.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Back from more testing, 'specially against Dredge.
Matchup seems pretty alright game 1 with Anafenza, the Foremost, Gaddock Teeg and Windborn Muse. We usually need two pieces of hate to lock the game up, except for Scavenging Ooze, which can take over the game on it's own if we have enough mana open when we play it. Post-board I brought in double Ghostly Prison and double Surgical Extraction, which makes it a lot easier, as we can overload them on hate pretty quickly.
Also did some Infect testing, only pre-board so far. So far my impression is that the matchup seems.... okay. We have a lot of relevant or semi-relevant cards to slow them down enough to turn the game around. I'd say it's maybe 45/55 for us pre board (this is both players knowing what they're up against, mind you), gonna do moe post-board testing soon.
Went 2-1-2 yesterday, beating RG Tron (2-0), Elves (2-1, no Cocos or Chords), drawing with UWR Control and losing to RG Madcap Ponza (1-2, mull to 5 both SB games, both pretty close) and Esper Control (effed up G2, probably losing me the match).
Weird day, as most MU's were either bad (Tron, Ponza, Elves) or not really expected (double control). Deck plays well, mistakes are easy to make, gotta up my game. Replaced Kataki and the 4th Thoughtseize with 2x Stony Silence and the Yixlid Jailer with a Choke, as my meta is heavy on blue.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Hm, only three basics with no mana dorks seems somewhat greedy in a Blood Moon format.
Feels to me the list doesn't really know what it wants to do. 6 removal and 3 discard isn't enough to go midrange and 4 Evolution isn't enough to go toolbox. I'd generally suggest Collective Brutality over IoK's if you're only devoting a few slots to discard as it doubles as removal and helps with racing. Also Souls value.
If you wanna run an Abzan Value deck, maybe run 3-4 Liliana the Last Hope, 3 Witness, a few discard guys (Tidehollow Sculler, Sin Collector) and stuff like that. With that many 4 and 5-drops you'll also need more lands or some amount of dorks to reliably cast your things (you also wanna be able to go t2 Liliana).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I can call an army to my side in the blink of an eye. Best not blink."
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
I definitely understand what you're saying. Maybe I'm wanting to focus too much on additional discard and should just accept the fact that our non-creature combo matchup is terrible game 1.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
(infect) 1-2 loss, 2-0 (mill), 0-2 (UR control) and 1-1 (jund). Mostly won every game where I was able to play evolution. UR control I mostly lost because very bad draws, both game had to mulligan to the 5 cards and were not able cast really anything. Against infect there was great change to win the last game, I had melira, sylvok outcast and thalia, guardian of thraben, but he was able to kill both. Then I was even able to play orzhov pontiff, but those were not enough.
After all, I was very satisfied for those games where I had evolution in my hand. Somehow I felt that there's not enough card advantage, so I'm gonna change to next tournament murderous cut to abzan charm
Abzan Charm is an interesting idea. I was pondering on if I want to swap the 3rd Abrupt Decay for something else, but Decay is such a powerhouse sometimes. It's a little on the clunky side, but I might give Charm a try during the next days.. can reset Kitchen Finks and Murderous Redcap, pump our guys, and even more carddraw is always welcome.
Haven't gotten much testing in, but so far I like Wall of Omens and Liliana, the Last Hope quite a bit. Tireless Tracker is a house if she isn't killed immediately, but also pretty awkward in games where you don't have time to set up and grind.
Also I just read a post bringing up Mikaeus, the Unhallowed for Abzan Coco. I completely forgot about the card, might be an interesting option for more combo-focused high-end builds. Triple black cost messes with our manabase however. Still, interesting idea.
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
I also decided to cut reveillark and bring one dromoka's command in. Dromoka's command and Phyrexian obliterator seems way too good to not to be used Okey... I admit that I live in some kind of dreamland with that, but command isnt so bad card and mostly in other decks it have been very useful.
Tomorrow there are bigger games (atm 90 people have been check in), so that will be good test for the deck.
I remember the card was tested back in Pod times. The card didn't really make the cut, even though Chord was slowly cut from the deck at some point. But Charm was close to playable.
The format (and the archetype) is different nowadays, so maybe Charm is worthwhile. In the Chord slot, Thoughtseize wanna say a word too. If you stick with Charms, maybe a Path can go.
1. round (Jund) 2-1
He won first match, two second mathes I was able to drop Sigarda which brought me the win. (also with little help with bobs
2. round (Junk) 1-2
First match he won quiet easily, second match I was able to win easily with few voices and sigard. Third match I had good pressure but then I run out gas at the same time when he found 3 tarmos. I could find answers and was too slow to find combo so I lost.
3. round (Bant human) 1-2
First match easy win for humans, they growed too big and I could find finks or anything else. Second match I had very good draws, few finks, few voices, stangleroot and linvala. I was able to use gavony to win the match. Third match I had to mulligan once, started with poor hand with removal. Could find any low mana creatures enough fast so he won.
4. round (melira pod) 1-2
First match my mistake... third turn I had ooze in my hand, I went to combat with strangleroot and he cast company. Found finks and viscera... and the combo was online. I should cast ooze first. Second game I was able to disturb enemy's hand and were able to beat him down with angel and strangleroot. Third match I couldn't find enough creature so he just beat me down with gavony and 4 creatures.
5. round (8rack) 1-2
First match I didnt have any change, I lost my hand fast and the end game fast. Second match I started with dromoka's command and pridemage, was able to decay lilli so I run to victory quiet easy. Third match I had good start... the situation was 15-1 for me. He was able to sac my creatures with lilli about 3 times, after that I found only lands and evolutions and he was able to beat me down with mutavault.
6. round (grixis delver) 1-2
Opening match he beat me quiet easily with delvers, I couldnt find any thing to air fight. Second match I evolved Sigarda to battlefield and was able to beat the enemy. Third match he beat me down to 6 with snapcaster and delver. I evolved sigarda and gave decay to delver. Next turn he attacked with snapcaster and kalitas, I blocked with ooze and sigarda, after the combat he plays anger of gods and cleans the table. In my turn I played rhino, he found gurmag angler. He ratched bomb my rhino and beat me down because I counld find more creatures or any answers.
After all, quiet happy for the deck. The result could have been totally different with little luck Abzan charm was good in those moment I had it my hand.
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Viscera Seer
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Spellskite
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Spike Feeder
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Siege Rhino
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Eldritch Evolution
2 Chord of Calling
3 Path to Exile
2 Abzan Charm
Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Razorverge Thicket
3 Horizon Canopy
2 Gavony Township
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ghostly Prison
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Linvala, Keeper of SIlence
I didn't like only having access to 4 Tutors, especially since I can't get them back. While Liliana, the Last Hope is a hell of a card, and will stay in my 75 for the time being, she doesn't replace Eternal Witness + Chord of Calling in the grindy matches. Also it's important to realise how much better Chord actually is than Eldritch Evolution in said grindfests. It's a great topdeck, while Evolution does nothing if you don't already have a board (which is often hard in those games).
Wall of Omens and Tireless Tracker did what they were supposed to do, and I'm not sure yet if Tracker doesn't have a place in the deck. Maybe I'll add her back if I end up cutting the 2 Abzan Charm.
Now, I'm adding the Melira Combo to the deck to have a faster out against Valakut decks. Might hurt the BGx matchup (combo is hard to assemble and neither Melira nor Seer do much on their own), but might also improve the Infect matchup a bit.
Everyone is talking about Abzan Charm, so I'm also trying that one. Have only goldfish'd a bit with it so far but it seems... tricky. The effects are powerful, but the card is somewhat clunky and hard to cast. It should however make our BGx and Control matchups better, as it kills almost everything in BGx (no Bob, but Kalitas, Anafenza and potentially Ooze, which are the biggest offenders) and gives us more instant-speed ways of advancing our game against Control. Draw 2, Witness, Draw 2 again seems dece We'll see how it goes.
Also swapped 2 Pithing Needle to keep the 2 Ghostly Prison in after moving Lili back to the sideboard. Might play around with the exact configuration some more tho, not having Needle feels weird.
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
How was Filigree Familiar for you?
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
I'm also thinking to add more charms. I dont worry about how clunky it is, but it gives lot of choices to how to use it and it's very flexible in every situation.
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Out: Melira, Seer, 2 Noble, 1-2 Path (depending on their build), Pontiff, 2 Evolution
In: 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Liliana, 1 Eidolon, 2 Surgicals
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
Abzan Charm was alright against Jund, crap against Affinity and pretty much just there in many other MU's. It's a cool grindy card, but we rarely get to grind, and we're already really good at it. Also both Chord of Calling and Liliana, the Last Hope are better at grinding than Charm.
I also tried Lili + Chord mainboard, which gives crazy grinding potential, but BB is sometimes tricky to cast, and doesn't quite synergize with the 6 tutors well enough to have her in the main. She's probably amazing in a more grindy, less toolboxy deck though.
Right now I'm trying a slight blue splash for Glen Elendra Archmage and Geist of Saint Traft. Glen to help stop spell combo and planeswalkers, Geist to help beat down Tron and Shift faster. Not sure about Geist, but Glen is quite a house in my experience. Also made some other changes, ending up with this list:
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Spellskite
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Spike Feeder
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Restoration Angel
1 Windborn Muse
1 Siege Rhino
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Cataclysmic Gearhulk
1 Archangel of Thune
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Eldritch Evolution
3 Chord of Calling
3 Path to Exile
Lands (23)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Breeding Pool
3 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Razorverge Thicket
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Gavony Township
4 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Cutting the Melira combo again, as it didn't feel consistent enough to matter too much against Valakut and the likes. Murderous Redcap is a nice card tho, I'm quite curious how much I'll miss him.
Another card I tried was Archangel of the Tithes, which - while doable - is often NOT easy to cast on time (WWW) and only taxes attackers for 1, which can be pretty meaningless dependent on the matchup. While she IS a flyer with a huge butt and plays defense very well, not being able to kill the opponent with her without losing the Propaganda effect pushes her over the edge for me.
That benig said, having a tutorable Propaganda felt really good, as it gives us game against the fast Aggro decks (Fish ). Initially I tried Magus of the Moat, which has crazy potential, but is hit by Twisted Image and can be ignored by most Affinity draws. Silent Arbiter seems pretty decent but has the problem of not doing anything against Infect, where Magus or Propaganda might be able to slow them down (or lock them out, depending on their draw). I ended up with Windborn Muse as a nice middle ground. She's a flyer that doesn't die to Twisted Image and taxes for 2 no matter what.
I added Restoration Angel back in to have more air troops and to evolve Kitchen Finks into Resto, blinking Finks and hopefully winning against Burn on the spot. Also the possibility of blinking a persisted Glen Elendra Archmage is just too sexy not to have it
Cataclysmic Gearhulk is in the main to see if he is worth a slot in the 75 (well, 76 in my case) at all, or if he'll be too slow to stop wide Affinity/Dredge/Fish/Token draws. I think the ceiling of the card is quite insane, but it's a quite specific effect with a very real drawbacks for us, as we often also go wide.
I was also looking for a suiteable 6-drop, but haven't really found anything except Grave Titan, which finishes games fast once you're there, but obviously takes a lot to get into play first.
The higher curve (and potential 6-drop) comes from the realisation that our deck is almost 50% mana, so we draw a lot of lands and dorks without any mana sinks except for Gavony Township. Hangerback Walker, Rhys, the Redeemed and the likes come to mind, but I'm unsure if they'll be good enough. Tireless Tracker could also fill that slot very well. Maybe it's unnecessary anyhow, but it's something I was thinking about.
Opinions? Thoughts? How is the deck performing for you guys?
@Pokken - did you have a chance to test your Mikaeus Company/Evo idea? If so, how did it go?
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
Blue splash is probably not worth it. Geist of Saint Traft never did anything and was never tutored up so far, Glen Elendra Archmage could have been great in certain spots but was just a little too late. Having to have one mana up for her to do anything makes it tricky to get her out in time I feel.
Cut both of them, replaced the Breeding Pool with a third Noble Hierarch and added a Selfless Spirit and an Anafenza, the Foremost. Also cut one Voice of Resurgence for a Gaddock Teeg. Not the biggest fan of the guy in general, but I want to test him vs Dredge (Conflagrate) and maaaybe Infect (Become Immense). Probably switching him to the sideboard later, but if he turns out to have enough meaningful splash utility (Infect, Tron, Scapeshift, Wraths) he might just stay. Basically want to see how much worse than a random Voice he is in MU's where neither is especially relevant.
Not sure about Cataclysmic Gearhulk yet, but the effect seems pretty good so far.
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
Last small games yesterday I thought that I miss card draw, so I started to figure out/test two abzan charm. Also thinking the night's whisper, but atm I think that I have more use to charm. I will still use only 4 eldritch evolution to tutor.
Gaddock teeg is nice, but I think that it's totally sideboard material. Againts infect we have much more to use (especially melira, after that seizes, aidolon, thalia, spellskite and so on.)
Here's my deck atm.
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Noble Hierarch
4x Voice of Resurgence
2x Strangleroot Geist
1x Spellskite
1x Wall of Omens
2x Filigree Familiar
2x Kitchen Finks
1x Orzhov Pontiff
1x Spike Feeder
2x Siege Rhino
1x Phyrexian Obliterator
1x Archangel of Thune
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
Land (23)
2x Forest
2x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
4x Blooming Marsh
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
1x Swamp
2x Temple Garden
4x Marsh Flats
4x Windswept Heath
1x Twilight Mire
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Path to Exile
2x Abzan Charm
1x Dromoka's Command
Sorcery (4)
4x Eldritch Evolution
Card draw is iffy. We run ~29 mana sources between lands and dorks, all of which become dead draws real quick in this format. We also run a bunch of guys that do nothing in the wrong situation, making raw card draw pretty risky. What do you want to find with the card draw?
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
I want to draw more eldritch evolution or cards to solve problems. For example, I played against infect, I had pretty good opening hand but no tools, with card draw I could have been found one of those 13 cards which will handle the problem. Have been felt same way earlier, we need to dig in to find evolution or our answers. The card draw is not ever dead choice.
Also with card draw we can pass faster those dead cards to find next ones. Without we can easily be dead before we will find any of answers. I mean we have to have card advantage that we can use toolbox.
Our card advantage traditionally comes from running creatures that do something when they enter the battlefield, and ways of re-using those creatures (Witness, Resto, etc.)
You ostly want to find Abrupt Decays and Path to Exiles to answer threats tho, not creatures, so I'll agree that you need the card draw a lot more than I do. After playing very midrange-y versions of this deck however I don't think it's the right approach. Running a small suite of spell-based answers and creatures to get those spells back (in addition to running creatures to deal with problems in the first place) seems superior in this style of deck.
I guess if you really want to draw a lot of cards, maybe give Tireless Tracker a try. She's tutorable, kills the opponent and draws cards all game instead of once.
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
But tomorrow I have more test games, I will see what's the result and how was Abzan charm maybe I will test version with chords soon. We'll see.
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
Matchup seems pretty alright game 1 with Anafenza, the Foremost, Gaddock Teeg and Windborn Muse. We usually need two pieces of hate to lock the game up, except for Scavenging Ooze, which can take over the game on it's own if we have enough mana open when we play it. Post-board I brought in double Ghostly Prison and double Surgical Extraction, which makes it a lot easier, as we can overload them on hate pretty quickly.
Also did some Infect testing, only pre-board so far. So far my impression is that the matchup seems.... okay. We have a lot of relevant or semi-relevant cards to slow them down enough to turn the game around. I'd say it's maybe 45/55 for us pre board (this is both players knowing what they're up against, mind you), gonna do moe post-board testing soon.
Probably gonna switch out Kataki, War's Wage and Yixlid Jailer out for 2 Stony Silence, because Tron.
Anyone else here done some more testing?
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
Weird day, as most MU's were either bad (Tron, Ponza, Elves) or not really expected (double control). Deck plays well, mistakes are easy to make, gotta up my game. Replaced Kataki and the 4th Thoughtseize with 2x Stony Silence and the Yixlid Jailer with a Choke, as my meta is heavy on blue.
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Omens
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Spellskite
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Eternal Witness
1 Orzhov Pontiff
2 Restoration Angel
2 Siege Rhino
1 Nekrataal
1 Reveillark
1 Shreikmaw
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
2 Lingering Souls
4 Eldritch Evolution
Lands: 23
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Temple Garden
1 Razorverge Thicket
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Godless Shrine
2 Concealed Courtyard
2 Shambling Vent
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Feels to me the list doesn't really know what it wants to do. 6 removal and 3 discard isn't enough to go midrange and 4 Evolution isn't enough to go toolbox. I'd generally suggest Collective Brutality over IoK's if you're only devoting a few slots to discard as it doubles as removal and helps with racing. Also Souls value.
If you wanna run an Abzan Value deck, maybe run 3-4 Liliana the Last Hope, 3 Witness, a few discard guys (Tidehollow Sculler, Sin Collector) and stuff like that. With that many 4 and 5-drops you'll also need more lands or some amount of dorks to reliably cast your things (you also wanna be able to go t2 Liliana).
- Yeva, Nature's Herald
Abzan Toolbox Primer
GWBAbzan CompanyBWG
GWBUGifts RockUBWG