Went 5:2 with my deck last weekend (german modern nationals) The deck felt pretty good (luckily didn't face Ad nauseum :D)
I won against Jund, Eldrazitron (easy), UR Delver, WR Prison and UB Faeris, I lost against Bant Humans/Knightfall (he had awesome hands) and BUG Death Shadow (played badly, matchup is definitely winnable).
Hollow Ones and Streetwraith gave some dream T1 plays (Looting, Discard Vengevine, cycle wraith, drop 2 Hollow Ones and get Vengevine Back). BTE + Bushwhacker are Main wincon every game and 4 Gather the Pack gave so much value in Topdeck Mode
I Played 4 Looting, 3 Reunion, 4 Gather the Pack and 2 Commune with the Gods for draw/discard. This split felt very good.
but it often feels like the worst card in the deck. And obviously an horrendous topdeck.
When playing with reunion you have to learn to keep some stuff in hand. Don't play every land you draw. Reunion often feels bad, I agree, but it also won me games were I collected 2 lands over time, played the reunion and got very good action.
Would you mind posting your list? The general consensus here seems to be that a hybrid of Hollow & Gather/BTE has been the most effective.
Also I'd love if izzetmage could way in on this debate. Trying out the Cathartic version myself, I realize that it is a bit more fragile. I like the idea of dropping Herbalists and Myr, as they felt like the weakest cards in the deck also very dependant on drawing each other. And then replacing them with other cards (Hollow/Wraith) that also like each other but have more synergy with the rest of the deck. Until yesterday I had never changed the deck by even a single card from izzetmage's OP list. I tried a clone of the recent Hollow Vine list that placed on mtgtop8 and didn't like it. I'll try to meet somewhere in the middle
I sometimes swap numbers on cathartic reunion, lightning axe and commune with the gods depending on the meta. Lost against Esper shadow yesterday because lingering souls is hard to beat... I am thinking about adding 1 ghor clan rampager for this matchups, at least in the sideboard.
It feels pretty good so far. Claim/fame is there mostly to get superion on the table just a little bit more consistently (I really dislike hidden herbalists). Then if I'm running claim, might as well run vexing devil.
What I need help with is the sideboard. Right now I have
This is the list I have been trying out and this is the first time ive seen this primer so mine is a little different. i posted this in the dredgevine primer but I believe it is more fitting here. Myr superion and vengevine are two of my most favorite creatures in mtg so i just had to make a deck. My original deck was a varolz-vengevine-death's shadow deck and it was successful but it was dated and it loses now to the new decks out (its 3 years old) so I am trying something new. This new list does work though its not SUPER consistent it is fine and I have beat E-tron a few times(which is not favorable to this type of deck).
Any advice is welcome. I thought this would be a little change to whats been posted. This deck also allows to grind with the varolz inclusion.
I had not seen hidden herbalist before this and that does change things a bit and I will begin brewing with it.
Also I have not seen Talara's battalion mentioned though maybe I missed it. I believe that card would go really well in some of your guy's lists.
I do believe that gather the pack would potentially be better than cathartic reunion. Though I have cards like collective brutality, cathartic reunion, and lotleth troll to discard any vengevines and or superions I cant cast. Discarding even burning tree emissary is fine because you can bring her back with claim and use her if you draw myr superion or battalion.
Its an interesting deck for sure and has many ways to play. My main focus at this point is to make it more consistent. And yes I know lotleth and burning tree arent exactly best buds. But lotleth has proven to be very very useful.
Stick to the basic list.
You are running a couple of 2- and 3-ofs that are not well-funded through playtesting.
Redundancy is teh keyword here. Dismiss cute / spicy things (Claim Fame, Removal, Death's Shadow) and streamline your list.
You are in between everything - part of your list wants to be midrange, part of it wants to be aggro.
Talara's Battalion is fine as long as it replaces Reckless Bushwhacker. Herbalists / Emissary's does provide a good job in putting a bunch of em to the battlefield. Worst thing 'bout Battalion is the fact that you ran Superion along em.
There are so many distracting 2-, 3- and 1-of's, i'm wondering what brought you to that list?
Edit:
I'm pretty familiar with teh deck right now.
Games against Top tier decks are solid right now, not on the winning-spot but "challenge accepted"-thing.
The deck lacks a good lategame engine and loses a lot to grind-games.
I suggest Pia and Kiran Nalaar are perfectly fine along Blood Moon.
Well I wanted to keep it pretty versatile which is why there are a few 2-3 ofs
I like having removal rather than pump which some peoplw run and using deaths shadow and vexing devil are really good with claim/fame as well as help recur vengevines. But yea thats probably why its not as consistent as Id like.
Edit: but id like to thank you for th advice and I am working on making sticking to plan rather than being all over the place
Well I wanted to keep it pretty versatile which is why there are a few 2-3 ofs
I like having removal rather than pump which some peoplw run and using deaths shadow and vexing devil are really good with claim/fame as well as help recur vengevines. But yea thats probably why its not as consistent as Id like.
Edit: but id like to thank you for th advice and I am working on making sticking to plan rather than being all over the place
These Split-Cards are more likely a finisher.
I can see your argument for Clame, but it doesn't trigger Vengevine in any way (even not with Vexing Devil out of the graveyard).
Manamorphose is just here to enable Talara's Battalion, which is quite bad.
Cut 2 morphose and 2 Superion (they are rather clunky).
5 Cards to consider are as follows: Narnam Renegade fits into the Revolt-trigger theme, blocks all creatures to death. Goblin Bushwhacker pumps the team. With costing RR it is declassified, but always worth watching out for. Bone Picker - you really need a Creature to die to make this reliably work. Mogg War Marshal talking about Revolt-trigger, this maybe another candidate. Mogg Fanatic really need some help to get buffed, otherwise outclassed by every single creature out there.
What about Insolent Neonate? Can be another way to pitch a Vengevine in a pinch, or if this deck is all-in on the Superion+Claim plan, to get a Superion to grave.
I like Neonate in my builds, but I am more prone to run Hollow One and/or Flamewake Phoenix. This version of the deck doesn't seem to get all that much value from discarding things.
i know you mentioned no claim but its just too good not to include with myr superion in my opinion though i under stand why you said it not the best.
But this is more streamlined and linear I guess.
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Modern RUAffinityUR GMono Green StompyG CEldrazi TronC URWJeskai GeistWRU WRBoros BurnRW BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
A lot of the early flavours of this deck ran Myr Suprrion but dropped it because it didn’t have enough enablers to be able to land consistently. There have been three more good enablers printed in recent sets (Hidden Herbalists, Kari Zev’s Expertise, and Claim // Fame) that has led some to re-evaluate Superion. (In the same span Cathartic Reunion and Hollow One also came up, so there’s been a lot of ‘noise’).
I first came to this thread when someone pointed me here on discussion of Superion cheater decks. I still think it’s an angle worth consideration.
I’m working on a nongreen variant of this deck concept myself that definitely uses Claim. There are a lot of tools available to explosively benefit from grave play now, and the speculators priced me out of Vengevines before I was able to land them anyway. Hoping for a Masters 25 reprint - for now I need to improvise.
Do you ever have disynergy with the delve creatures and Grim Flayer? I like the card, but I feel like it might outclass your delve threats here since it should be pretty easy to turn on Delirium. Tasigur definitely seems like the worst card in your deck.
Has anybody seen the B/x versions with Death's Shadow?
I'm not even convinced it's that easy to turn on Delirium. The deck has no planeswalkers, no enchantments, no tribals. The only artifacts are the Superions, which are usually prime candidates for Claim/Fame anyway so may not stay in grave long. Even without the delve antisynergy, this deck looks to me like delirium is unreliable to achieve.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Thanks. That thread is terrible. Only 1 person referenced the deck Steve Rubin played. What do you think about the deck?
I played it for 12 preboard games vs. Knightfall and it was 6-6. There were many games dying to variance and even when not so, it didn't overwhelm Knightfall, but maybe it's the wrong deck to play test against?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I have only played it in three friendly leagues, for a 9-6 record. It has enough decisions to stay interesting, but the best decisions aren't rewarded often enough due to the randomness of burning inquiry. For my time and investment of event entry, I will stick with dredge.
I’m working on a nongreen variant of this deck concept myself that definitely uses Claim. There are a lot of tools available to explosively benefit from grave play now, and the speculators priced me out of Vengevines before I was able to land them anyway. Hoping for a Masters 25 reprint - for now I need to improvise.
Woo, finally gave up the holdout and with the help of a Black Friday sale burned the bulk of my store credit on a playset of Vengevines. I can finally actually build most of the decks in this thread now, rather than working with lesser pieces like Flamewake Phoenix.
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Also I'd love if izzetmage could way in on this debate. Trying out the Cathartic version myself, I realize that it is a bit more fragile. I like the idea of dropping Herbalists and Myr, as they felt like the weakest cards in the deck also very dependant on drawing each other. And then replacing them with other cards (Hollow/Wraith) that also like each other but have more synergy with the rest of the deck. Until yesterday I had never changed the deck by even a single card from izzetmage's OP list. I tried a clone of the recent Hollow Vine list that placed on mtgtop8 and didn't like it. I'll try to meet somewhere in the middle
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
4 Reckless Bushwhacker
4 Street Wraith
4 Hollow One
4 Vengevine
3 Hooting Mandrills
Spells (15):
4 Faithless Looting
4 Gather the Pack
4 Lightning bolt
2 Cathartic Reunion
1 Commune with the God's
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Stomping Ground
2 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Blood moon
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Hooting Mandrills
2 Lightning Axe
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Leyline of the void
Draft My Cube!
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
3 Insolent Neonate
3 Hooting Mandrils
4 Hollow One
3 Reckless Bushwacker
3 Flamewake Phoenix
3 Street Wraith
3 Cathartic Reunion
2 Commune with the Gods
4 Gather the Pack
2 Lightning Axe
I sometimes swap numbers on cathartic reunion, lightning axe and commune with the gods depending on the meta. Lost against Esper shadow yesterday because lingering souls is hard to beat... I am thinking about adding 1 ghor clan rampager for this matchups, at least in the sideboard.
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
2x Hooting Mandrills
4x Insolent Neonate
3x Myr Superion
3x Reckless Bushwhacker
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Vengevine
4x Vexing Devil
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Forest
1x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
4x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Claim / Fame
4x Faithless Looting
4x Gather the Pack
4x Lightning Bolt
It feels pretty good so far. Claim/fame is there mostly to get superion on the table just a little bit more consistently (I really dislike hidden herbalists). Then if I'm running claim, might as well run vexing devil.
What I need help with is the sideboard. Right now I have
Its just a little bit of everything. Liliana may be odd but I like her in grindy match ups (+ she can be grabbed by gather the pack).
So yeah, I've never been great at building sideboards, and I'm not better at the general art of sideboarding. Any help?
3x Burning-Tree Emissary
2x Death's Shadow
1x Hooting Mandrills
2x Lotleth Troll
4x Myr Superion
2x Talara's Battalion
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1x Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4x Vengevine
2x Vexing Devil
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Fatal Push
1x Kolaghan's Command
2x Lightning Bolt
3x Manamorphose
2x Terminate
Sorcery
2x Cathartic Reunion
3x Claim / Fame
2x Collective Brutality
4x Faithless Looting
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Copperline Gorge
1x Forest
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
Any advice is welcome. I thought this would be a little change to whats been posted. This deck also allows to grind with the varolz inclusion.
I had not seen hidden herbalist before this and that does change things a bit and I will begin brewing with it.
Also I have not seen Talara's battalion mentioned though maybe I missed it. I believe that card would go really well in some of your guy's lists.
I do believe that gather the pack would potentially be better than cathartic reunion. Though I have cards like collective brutality, cathartic reunion, and lotleth troll to discard any vengevines and or superions I cant cast. Discarding even burning tree emissary is fine because you can bring her back with claim and use her if you draw myr superion or battalion.
Its an interesting deck for sure and has many ways to play. My main focus at this point is to make it more consistent. And yes I know lotleth and burning tree arent exactly best buds. But lotleth has proven to be very very useful.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
You are running a couple of 2- and 3-ofs that are not well-funded through playtesting.
Redundancy is teh keyword here. Dismiss cute / spicy things (Claim Fame, Removal, Death's Shadow) and streamline your list.
You are in between everything - part of your list wants to be midrange, part of it wants to be aggro.
Talara's Battalion is fine as long as it replaces Reckless Bushwhacker. Herbalists / Emissary's does provide a good job in putting a bunch of em to the battlefield. Worst thing 'bout Battalion is the fact that you ran Superion along em.
There are so many distracting 2-, 3- and 1-of's, i'm wondering what brought you to that list?
Edit:
I'm pretty familiar with teh deck right now.
Games against Top tier decks are solid right now, not on the winning-spot but "challenge accepted"-thing.
The deck lacks a good lategame engine and loses a lot to grind-games.
I suggest Pia and Kiran Nalaar are perfectly fine along Blood Moon.
Also Mogg War Marshal is great, just alle the exile-sweepers prevents my from using it (flaying tendrills, kozilek's return, anger of the gods). Sulfur elemental is a great tool against all these lingering souls-Decks.
Great additions would be:
Green @ it's best
I like having removal rather than pump which some peoplw run and using deaths shadow and vexing devil are really good with claim/fame as well as help recur vengevines. But yea thats probably why its not as consistent as Id like.
Edit: but id like to thank you for th advice and I am working on making sticking to plan rather than being all over the place
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Hidden Herbalists
4x Hope of Ghirapur
4x Myr Superion
2x Talara's Battalion
4x Vengevine
4x Vexing Devil
2x Cathartic Reunion
2x Claim / Fame
2x Driven / Despair
4x Faithless Looting
4x Gather the Pack
Instant (2)
2x Manamorphose
Land (18)
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
3x Copperline Gorge
1x Forest
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Hope of Ghirapur is a bad card and surely doesn't deserve this spot. Everything else is better here (think of
These Split-Cards are more likely a finisher.
I can see your argument for Clame, but it doesn't trigger Vengevine in any way (even not with Vexing Devil out of the graveyard).
Manamorphose is just here to enable Talara's Battalion, which is quite bad.
Cut 2 morphose and 2 Superion (they are rather clunky).
5 Cards to consider are as follows:
Narnam Renegade fits into the Revolt-trigger theme, blocks all creatures to death.
Goblin Bushwhacker pumps the team. With costing RR it is declassified, but always worth watching out for.
Bone Picker - you really need a Creature to die to make this reliably work.
Mogg War Marshal talking about Revolt-trigger, this maybe another candidate.
Mogg Fanatic really need some help to get buffed, otherwise outclassed by every single creature out there.
Green @ it's best
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
What about Insolent Neonate? Can be another way to pitch a Vengevine in a pinch, or if this deck is all-in on the Superion+Claim plan, to get a Superion to grave.
I like Neonate in my builds, but I am more prone to run Hollow One and/or Flamewake Phoenix. This version of the deck doesn't seem to get all that much value from discarding things.
4x Burning-Tree Emissary
4x Experiment One
2x Hidden Herbalists
2x Hooting Mandrills
3x Myr Superion
2x Talara's Battalion
4x Vengevine
4x Vexing Devil
2x Claim / fame
2x Driven / despair
4x Faithless Looting
4x Gather the Pack
Instant (6)
4x Lightning Bolt
1x temur battle rage
Land (18)
1x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Copperline Gorge
1x Forest
1x Overgrown Tomb
2x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
4x Wooded Foothills
i know you mentioned no claim but its just too good not to include with myr superion in my opinion though i under stand why you said it not the best.
But this is more streamlined and linear I guess.
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
I don't like Talara's Battallion... but that's just a personal thing i guess...
RUAffinityUR
GMono Green StompyG
CEldrazi TronC
URWJeskai GeistWRU
WRBoros BurnRW
BRWMardu PyromancerWRB
Draft My Cube!
I first came to this thread when someone pointed me here on discussion of Superion cheater decks. I still think it’s an angle worth consideration.
I’m working on a nongreen variant of this deck concept myself that definitely uses Claim. There are a lot of tools available to explosively benefit from grave play now, and the speculators priced me out of Vengevines before I was able to land them anyway. Hoping for a Masters 25 reprint - for now I need to improvise.
Has anybody seen the B/x versions with Death's Shadow?
4 Death's Shadow
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Street Wraith
4 Hollow One
4 Vengevine
4 Gurmag Angler
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning bolt
4 Cathartic Reunion
3 Call to the Netherworld
3 Thoughtseize
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Blood Crypt
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
Draft My Cube!
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36204_The-8-Most-Wonderfully-Janky-Decks-In-Modern.html
Basically BR, so no Vengevines...
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Thanks. That thread is terrible. Only 1 person referenced the deck Steve Rubin played. What do you think about the deck?
I played it for 12 preboard games vs. Knightfall and it was 6-6. There were many games dying to variance and even when not so, it didn't overwhelm Knightfall, but maybe it's the wrong deck to play test against?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Woo, finally gave up the holdout and with the help of a Black Friday sale burned the bulk of my store credit on a playset of Vengevines. I can finally actually build most of the decks in this thread now, rather than working with lesser pieces like Flamewake Phoenix.