Speaking of SB's, has anyone tried playing a Plains in the SB? I say Enevoldson play one when he went 12-3 at a GP, since it seems good to go up to 20 lands against GQ decks. Is this an option?
There aren't many decks that use Ghost Quarter aggressively and if they do, they often combine it with Leonin Arbiter.
Judging from the photo posted on twitter, Thomas Enevoldson's deck only had 18 lands MD (missing a shockland) and the basic plains was actually the 19th land. My guess is that the basic plains is an option for grindier matches where the deck might run out of fetch targets and maybe against Blood Moon. Having a third basic land is also good if the opponent's deck has a full playset of Path to Exile, like Abzan Midrange does.
Alright, I promised a tournament report for the TJ's 5k and I live up to my promises! Sadly, I didn't quite take as detailed of notes as I had hoped; I'll try to take better notes for SCG Syracuse. Heading into the event, I decided to play the same list from the IQ (http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=114986) with the slight change of -1 Nihil Spellbomb +1 Disenchant, adjusting to the decline in graveyard decks and the weakness to enchantments and Chalice of the Void. The event had 134 people, pretty small for a 5k, but I recognized most of the people there as being regular grinders so most of the competition was at least reasonable.
Round 1 - Sam, UW Control (0-2, lost die roll)
Mmm, nothing quite like the round 1 feature match first thing in the morning - I've played a lot at the TJ's series and Sam won one of the events (in May, I believe), so I wasn't terribly shocked by this. Sam is friends with a good friend of mine from the Boston area who has been on UW forever, so I know what he's playing before we start, but it sadly doesn't make the matchup any better. I open with a land light hand that gets stonewalled by multiple Spreading Seas cutting me off of black mana for multiple turns as my hand clumps up with multiple delve threats and a Lingering Souls in the graveyard. I end up working him down to 1 post-Verdict and a top-decked Godless Shrine lets me flash back Lingering Souls. At this point, I have 4 total lands, and my opponent double Tectonic Edges me on end step. Considering that there are 2 Supreme verdict left in the deck vs my pair of Souls tokens, but Detention Sphere and Jace, Architect of Thought also beat my current board, I resolve to flash in a Snap with my mana. He topdecks 2nd Verdict and I lose to Colonnade a few turns later (while holding a Fatal Push and a Path to Exile that I can't cast, of which I drew 2 each).
-4 Path to Exile -1 Street Wraith, +2 Collective Brutality +1 Stubborn Denial +1 Esper Charm +1 Liliana of the Veil
I take a mull and see a slower 6 with a delve threat and snap with no spells, but knowing how important total card quantity is in an attrition matchup is, I keep it. I luck out and find some early spells, casting Thoughtseize Snap-TS to take Jace and Gideon. I also cast Esper Charm and flashed it back, and Souls tokens buy a bunch of time vs his Colonnade. I put lethal on board with a giant Death's Shadow and Stubborn Denial as my last card in hand, and his Runed Halo with Cryptic Command backup buys him time as my next two draw-steps are another Shadow and a land. I end up dying to Colonnade after having fired off a Push on one earlier in the game. This isn't a particularly great matchup in my estimation, but I didn't feel like my deck was very kind to me this round
Rd 2 - Grixis Shadow (2-0, lost die roll)
It's hard to remember much, aside from my opponent playing Claim//Fame, Vendetta, and responding to my Inquisition of Kozilek with Stubborn Denial with no creatures on board vs my open mana while he had actual cards in hand.
Rd 3 - Jund (2-0, lost die roll)
My opponent mulls to 5 and has a pair of Tarmogoyf, but Death's Shadow is a more efficient beater, as I intentionally put myself to 1 to put him into the abyss with Stubs and double removal spell backup, killing him the next turn.
-4 Thoughtseize -2 Inquisition of Kozilek, +2 Blessed Alliance +2 Collective Brutality +1 Esper Charm +1 Liliana of the Veil
Game two my opponent has the dream curve of discard spell into Bob into Lili, the last of which sneaks in under my Stubs as I'm forced to Path the Bob before it can produce value. With double delve threats, I set up to throw away both a Tasigur and Angler if I have to in order to get the Lili off the board, but topdecked Souls bail me out. After flashing back Souls and casting the Angler, my opponent topdecks an Olivia Voldaren. I topdeck a Lili of my own and draw Snap that can target both Stubs and a Path for his Ravine to close off all the angles from there.
Rd 4 - Burn (2-1, won die roll)
Uh, pretty standard stuff game one. I'm blind in the matchup and keep a slow one with no delve threat or DS, and Lingering Souls sucks at racing.
-3 Street Wraith -4 Thoughtseize, +2 Blessed Alliance +2 Collective Brutality +1 Esper Charm +1 Liliana of the Veil +1 Stubborn Denial
I really wish that I kept better notes for this game, but I cast a turn 1 IoK to see a grip of fetchland, Goblin Guide, double Monastery Swiftspear, double Eidolon of the Great Revel, Boros Charm, opting to take an Eidolon. I don't remember much of the game, aside from drawing double Blessed Alliance, a Death's Shadow, and at least 1 Stubborn Denial as my opponent curves out flawlessly but dies to a gigantic Shadow.
Game 3 I force trades of resources with Iok, push, and serum off of basic island and swamp in the first 2 turns, and cast my 2nd Gurmag Angler for 6 mana after the first one gets Pathed and finish the game off after my opponent bricks for exactly 1 turn too many. I win at 4 life while my opponent has a known {card]Skullcrack[/card] in hand.
Rd 5 - Titan Breach (2-0, win die roll)
After taking a mull to 6 and scrying top, I opt to Thought Scour my opponent and mill Wooded Foothills and a basic mountain. Passing to my opponent and seeing a basic forest into Relic of Progenitus, I think he's on ponza and choose to fetch basic swamp, which hurts when I draw DS a few turns later. Unable to pressure, and after hitting some timely land drops in spite of my Scour line, he hits his fifth land to Through the Breach a Primeval Titan as I Path to Exile it in response to the trigger. Choosing to get a single Valakut and mountain to bolt my currently tiny Shadow down, he ends up losing the game as he hits land drops, bolting me piecemeal as I find a Shadow at 9 life. He bolts me again and I hit him from 13 down to 4 after shocking myself with Stubs backup. Having sandbagged a fetchland in play, my opponent rubs his hands together and slowly draws off the top. He peels another fetch, puts it into play, and kind of stares at me, announcing "second fetch, I'll crack both of them". Asking him to show me the red sources, he gives a shy look at his library and reveals that he has already hit all of his nonbasic red sources and can't deal damage with valakut. Remember kids - ALWAYS make them show you it.
Rd 6 - BW Eldrazi (1-2, won die roll)
I cast 3 discard spells and tear my opponent's hand to shreds as a 6/6 Shadow comes down and closes the game quickly.
-2 Tasigur -2 Gurmag Angler -3 Street Wraith, +3 Flaying Tendrils +1 Blessed Alliance +2 Collective Brutality +1 Liliana [I put my opponent on the Eldrazi Taxes deck after game one, having not seen any signature cards game 1. I also expected multiple RiPs to compliment 4 Relics].
Game 2 I get put on the backfoot with multiple Scullers disrupting my draw, backed by Souls flashback Souls, and a follow-up Smasher. My cards quite simply didn't line up well here.
Resideboard: -3 Flaying Tendrils -1 Liliana, +2 Angler +1 Tasigur +1 Stubborn Denial [In retrospect, should have only brought in 1 Tas 1 Angler]
My opponent mulls to 5 and I'm feeling pretty great after casting an early discard spell to see a hand of Caves of Koilos, Fatal Push, Blessed Alliance, Tidehollow Sculler. Knowing that I have a removal spell for the Sculler on top, I choose to take the Alliance for the long game once I start putting down threats through his turn 1 Relic. Sadly, my opponent topdecks another Sculler into Eldrazi Temple + Thought-knot Seer as my next two draw steps are my other delve threats left and I have no removal. His next 2 draw steps find him Lingering Souls and a Path to Exile. I really wish I had recorded every draw step in this game, since it felt like a stacked deck situation while I flopped around on a 7 and died.
Rd 7 - Mono U Tron (2-0, win die roll)
Going in blind, I have no interaction for Chalice, so on turn 2 I aggressively Thought Scour myself, to try and find a discard spell, failing to do so. My opponent promptly casts Chalice on 1 for his turn 2. I come very close to scooping on the spot to save time, but I decide to play it out. After flashing in a pair of end-steps Ambush Vipers and sneaking in a Fatal Push on his Spellskite through Chalice with some nifty wording (Attack you, before blocks kill your guy), Souls - flashback Souls after he pops Oblivion Stone somehow manages to clock him out before anything disastrous can happen.
-2 Fatal Push -2 Path to Exile -3 Lingering Souls, +2 Ceremonious Rejection +2 Disenchant +1 Stubborn Denial +1 Esper Charm +1 Liliana of the Veil
Weird game, both of us kind of durdle around not doing much since he has turn 1 Relic. I end up casting Esper Charm to Mind Rot him in response to a Thirst for knowledge to tag his last two cards. I aggressively hurt myself and go to 1 and draw multiple Wraiths, as between a pair of Remand and an overloaded Cyclonic Rift they don't exactly present the fastest clock. Eventually I find a Shadow and my opponent sticks a Sundering Titan to blow up 3 of my lands. Thankfully my 1 mana creature is bigger than his 8 mana one and he's forced to block as I miss free damage for some stupid reason. I also cast a Snap into the Titan leaves-play trigger for literally no reason and let them cash in their last card in hand, a Condescend, to draw to additional outs. Thankfully I don't get punished, but I feel like I generally played like crap in this round. Maybe karma decided to bail me out for the previous round. Or maybe better lucky than good
Rd 8 - Knightfall (2-1, lost die roll) Spell Queller is very good in multiples, tagging a Snap that was looking to hit the other Queller with a flashbacked Fatal Push. I never stabilize against his fliers and die quickly.
-3 Lingering Souls -3 Street Wraith, +3 Flaying Tendrils +1 Liliana of the Veil +1 Esper Charm +1 Stubborn Denial [I was going through the sideboard rather quickly and totally spaced on Collective Brutality]
Game 2 my opponent mulls to 6 and keeps a draw with 4 mana dorks. He draws his fifth one and plays it. I cast a Flaying Tendrils.
Resideboard: -1 Liliana of the Veil -1 Esper Charm, +2 Collective Brutality
I leverage my life total as a resource for a few turns to cast multiple discard spells, to include an escalated Brutality to tag his Unified Will. I miss land drops as my opponent recovers from the discard with Renegade Rallier. After putting an Angler on the table facing his Voice and Rallier, I have the option to cast a Flaying Tendrils, but opt to hold it for an extra turn of value. On the following turn, I block the voice and let him pump an extra 2 damage into the Rallier with Kessig Wolf Run as I take this as a sign that he's on air, casting a Tendrils on my turn for a clean 2-for-1 while holding Push, Path, and Snap to clear the ground the rest of the way. He draws a CoCo but doesn't hit Eternal Witness or Reflector Mage, so I get there. Of important note here is that my opponent had about a billion grindy cards in their 75, but as the archetypes match up, it just doesn't really matter. You can ignore many of the bodies on their creatures until you eventually turn the corner, closing the game within a small window.
Final record: 6-2, good for top 16
Closing thoughts: Deck is still great. The draws vs UW and BW could have very easily shifted my way, and I didn't feel far off of another top 8. I don't think I'll make any changes for SCG Syracuse this next weekend. I promise I'll give some detailed notes for that if you guys are interested.
Thanks again for the report! Yes, we are very much interested! I don't attend tournaments at the moment because of exams, but I have been playing a similar list on MTGO for a while. Interestingly, some of the cards which you always seem really fond of have been under-performing for me. I wonder if this is just bad luck or a matter of different playstyles.
Path to Exile feels indispensable 20% of the time and like a necessary evil 80% of the time. I just hate giving my opponent extra lands with this deck. Unlike Grixis Shadow, we don't have access to the Snapcaster Mage + Kommand engine. So, most other midrange decks have a better lategame then us. Giving them extra lands to bring their manlands online and thin out their deck is not helpful. Each time you mention that somebody topdecked against you multiple times, I can't help suspecting some correlation to the free deck thinning by Path to Exile, even though it might not be THAT relevant. However, it certainly isn't completely irrelevant.
Burn is another matchup that feels considerably harder with Esper Shadow than with Grixis Shadow. Path to Exile requires mana in the least important color in the deck, for which no basic land can be fetched. Furthermore, Burn decks have a greedy manabase of 19-20 lands and no cantrips. More often than not, they can put an extra land to good use. They also love deck-thinning.
The one top tier deck against which Path to Exile is usually considerably better than Fatal Push is Eldrazi Tron. But overall, this is another matchup that feels worse with Esper Shadow than with Grixis Shadow. Esper Shadow has no maindeck answer to a resolved Chalice of the Void and the CMC1 of Path to Exile means that a Chalice for 1 is enough to lock Esper Shadow completely out of creature removal.
Another card that I have not been too happy with is Flaying Tendrils, which you have recently up-ed to 3 copies in the sideboard. This might have to do with the cards that get boarded out, though. The three major decks against which Flaying Tendrils is very relevant are Affinity, Vizier CoCo and Dredge. Against the swarm strategies of these decks, Lingering Souls is a reasonable card to have, especially when discarded with Collective Brutality. So I tend to leave a few copies of Lingering Souls in, taking out cards that are worse in the respective matchup instead. Unfortunately, Flaying Tendrils often gets in the way, so I have considered going down to 1 copy from 2.
I recently tested Liliana of the Veil in this deck and wasn't overly impressed. I often found myself in the awkward situation of having to discard cards that I would have rather kept in hand while my opponent discarded lands. Liliana is very good against Grixis Shadow, but that is already one of the most favorable matchups. I won against Control with her once, which felt good, but at the same time it felt very cumbersome. The most important Control deck is currently Jeskai Control, which can easily deal with Liliana.
Did you really cut your dedicated graveyard hate down to just one copy of Nihil Spellbomb? That seems very greedy to me. Dredge might not be that popular at the moment, but Traverse the Ulvenwald and Snapcaster Mage can certainly get out of hand if undisturbed. Maybe your plan is to dodge other midrange decks for the most part.
Is Esper Charm really worth it? I considered it several times, but never found room for it. I view it as kind of a worse version of Kolaghan's Command. On the upside, it doesn't depend on the graveyard. So I'm not sure about it and would really appreciate if you would explain your preference for it in a little more detail.
Path to Exile feels indispensable 20% of the time and like a necessary evil 80% of the time. I just hate giving my opponent extra lands with this deck. Unlike Grixis Shadow, we don't have access to the Snapcaster Mage + Kommand engine. So, most other midrange decks have a better lategame then us. Giving them extra lands to bring their manlands online and thin out their deck is not helpful. Each time you mention that somebody topdecked against you multiple times, I can't help suspecting some correlation to the free deck thinning by Path to Exile, even though it might not be THAT relevant. However, it certainly isn't completely irrelevant.
Path takes their Snap-Kommand engine off-line quite easily, and having 4 cheap answers to the Push-resilient threats (which are dominating the format right now: this is why Eldrazi decks, delve decks, value decks with cards like Voice of Resurgence, hosers that dodge black removal like Chameleon Colossus and Mirran Crusader, etc., have become so popular) is a huge boon right now. Basically, the format has adjusted to the presence of Push, but Path is still excellent. I also have not found other midrange decks to have a better lategame, since Lingering Souls by itself is tough to answer, and the high density of cantrips, efficient disruption, and cheap beaters makes matchups where the opponent is casting 4 mana creatures very winnable. Finally, I think that people overplay the cost of giving the opponent a basic, as many decks in the format play a limited number of them and early on you don't generally need to path, while later on the land doesn't matter much. Also, our tempo game is sick and we can make up for it by being more efficient at basically every point on the curve!
Burn is another matchup that feels considerably harder with Esper Shadow than with Grixis Shadow. Path to Exile requires mana in the least important color in the deck, for which no basic land can be fetched. Furthermore, Burn decks have a greedy manabase of 19-20 lands and no cantrips. More often than not, they can put an extra land to good use. They also love deck-thinning.
I'd generally agree with most of these points, and it's why I have 7 cards in the sideboard for Burn presently. I will point out, however, that Grixis has a similar problem of fetching for a red source to cast Lightning Bolt, as they don't play basic mountain and red is their off-color. With tight play and ample sideboarding, the matchup is very reasonable however.
The one top tier deck against which Path to Exile is usually considerably better than Fatal Push is Eldrazi Tron.
And Grixis DS, and affinity, and Titan Shift/Breach, and regular tron, and D&T, and Dredge, and I'm sure some other matchups I'm not thinking of. In fact, the only matchups I want Push more than Path are Burn and Storm specifically.
But overall, this is another matchup that feels worse with Esper Shadow than with Grixis Shadow. Esper Shadow has no maindeck answer to a resolved Chalice of the Void and the CMC1 of Path to Exile means that a Chalice for 1 is enough to lock Esper Shadow completely out of creature removal.
The only games I've felt very disadvantaged against E Tron have been ones with resolved Chalice or All is Dust, and I've played the matchup somewhere between 30-50 times. If you're playing ordinary magic, interacting with each other on conventional angles and smashing dudes into dudes, ourcardsaresimplybetterthantheirs.
Another card that I have not been too happy with is Flaying Tendrils, which you have recently up-ed to 3 copies in the sideboard. This might have to do with the cards that get boarded out, though. The three major decks against which Flaying Tendrils is very relevant are Affinity, Vizier CoCo and Dredge. Against the swarm strategies of these decks, Lingering Souls is a reasonable card to have, especially when discarded with Collective Brutality. So I tend to leave a few copies of Lingering Souls in, taking out cards that are worse in the respective matchup instead. Unfortunately, Flaying Tendrils often gets in the way, so I have considered going down to 1 copy from 2.
Those matchups are all tough without Tendrils, and I also want access to the card for Elves, Storm, and D&T where Souls won't shine. Finding the first copy is often crucial to winning, which is why I've moved up to 3 and consider it the most important card in the sideboard aside from the 4th Stubs. Also remember that if you have resolved Souls against a deck like Affinity, you're probably winning already and you can just hold the Tendrils (unless they have an Etched Champion, of course). Against Vizier and Dredge, however, Souls isn't doing very much and Tendrils is likely to win the game if backed up by anything else.
I recently tested Liliana of the Veil in this deck and wasn't overly impressed. I often found myself in the awkward situation of having to discard cards that I would have rather kept in hand while my opponent discarded lands. Liliana is very good against Grixis Shadow, but that is already one of the most favorable matchups. I won against Control with her once, which felt good, but at the same time it felt very cumbersome. The most important Control deck is currently Jeskai Control, which can easily deal with Liliana.
You want broad cards that can come in for a lot of matchups, and LotV is still excellent in midrange mirrors and against control/combo. Burn falls into the category of being near-combo, and she's also very good there (especially postboard, where they're liable to be sitting on Paths and Deflecting Palms).
Did you really cut your dedicated graveyard hate down to just one copy of Nihil Spellbomb? That seems very greedy to me. Dredge might not be that popular at the moment, but Traverse the Ulvenwald and Snapcaster Mage can certainly get out of hand if undisturbed. Maybe your plan is to dodge other midrange decks for the most part.
Dredge is winnable between Paths and Tendrils (though you absolutely have to find those) if you leverage your life total correctly, and Living End is also very beatable with the playset of stubs and a fast clock. Those are the only two common matchups where Spellbomb is a true ace. I feel advantaged against every Snapcaster mage deck aside from UW, and the Jund Shadow matchup is laughably easy and doesn't need more Spellbombs to help out. Additionally, the metagame has shifted and punished graveyard decks pretty hard with a lot of people playing maindeck relics, so you don't need to pack as much hate yourself.
Is Esper Charm really worth it? I considered it several times, but never found room for it. I view it as kind of a worse version of Kolaghan's Command. On the upside, it doesn't depend on the graveyard. So I'm not sure about it and would really appreciate if you would explain your preference for it in a little more detail.
I tried it out for a laugh (like, literally the result of a joke with a friend) and was surprisingly happy with it. Postboard, the cards in your deck tend to line up better and drawing 2 or mind-rotting your opponent can put in serious work. It also provides another out to pesky enchantments like Rest in Peace and Leyline of Sanctity, as well as being outstanding against Burn (they really don't like Mind Rot effects). It's not essential by any means, but I've been reasonably impressed by the card and will likely continue to play the one copy (one-ofs being generally better in Snap-Scour decks than normal, of course).
Path takes their Snap-Kommand engine off-line quite easily, and having 4 cheap answers to the Push-resilient threats (which are dominating the format right now: this is why Eldrazi decks, delve decks, value decks with cards like Voice of Resurgence, hosers that dodge black removal like Chameleon Colossus and Mirran Crusader, etc., have become so popular) is a huge boon right now. Basically, the format has adjusted to the presence of Push, but Path is still excellent.
This might be a metagame call. I play on MTGO and the metagame isn't dominated by push-resilient threats. The most common decks seem to be Burn, Affinity and Grixis Shadow (which has some push-resilient threats, but not to a point where Push isn't a decent card to have). Eldrazi Tron seems to have taken a hit in popularity, likely due to the presence of Affinity. The only major deck that regularly packs pro black creatures is mono-white Death and Taxes, which makes up maybe 3% of the field. Mirran Crusader can be held at bay by Lingering Souls for a while and dies to Flaying Tendrils after boarding.
I also have not found other midrange decks to have a better lategame, since Lingering Souls by itself is tough to answer, and the high density of cantrips, efficient disruption, and cheap beaters makes matchups where the opponent is casting 4 mana creatures very winnable.
Jund Death's Shadow with the white splash has grinded me out several times when I ran only light graveyard hate. Abzan is also a very tough matchup, with all those Scavening Oozes, Lingering Souls and Spellbombs getting in the way. B/W Tokens is usually a nightmare. These are midrange decks I don't feel favored against with 3 copies of Lingering Souls and no way to get back Snapcaster Mage outside of Tasigur.
Finally, I think that people overplay the cost of giving the opponent a basic, as many decks in the format play a limited number of them and early on you don't generally need to path, while later on the land doesn't matter much. Also, our tempo game is sick and we can make up for it by being more efficient at basically every point on the curve!
I rarely manage to achieve a sick tempo with my deck, so maybe I'm doing something wrong. In a metagame with so many fast aggro decks, I often end up not being the beatdown deck. Affinity and various Zoo variants seem to be just better at it.
I'd generally agree with most of these points, and it's why I have 7 cards in the sideboard for Burn presently. I will point out, however, that Grixis has a similar problem of fetching for a red source to cast Lightning Bolt, as they don't play basic mountain and red is their off-color. With tight play and ample sideboarding, the matchup is very reasonable however.
Most of the current Grixis Shadow lists don't run Lightning Bolt. But I usually do and it's just not the same. Lightning Bolt kills all of their creatures without giving them a land. But the best part is that Lightning Bolt can be turned into a win condition when it is no longer needed as a creature removal. I have won so many games against burn with just a single Death's Shadow attack and a combination of Lightning Bolt, Snapcaster Mage, Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command and some help from their Shocklands. With Esper Shadow, I nearly always have to attack twice, which usually means that they have at least one more turn to burn me out.
The one top tier deck against which Path to Exile is usually considerably better than Fatal Push is Eldrazi Tron.
And Grixis DS, and affinity, and Titan Shift/Breach, and regular tron, and D&T, and Dredge, and I'm sure some other matchups I'm not thinking of. In fact, the only matchups I want Push more than Path are Burn and Storm specifically.
I definitely prefer Push against Affinity. It's in my primary color, it does not help them fix their mana situation, and it hits all of their non-Etched-Champion creatures without even requiring a revolt trigger, except for the occasional Master of Etherium, which usually gets sideboarded out. The exile clause doesn't matter in this matchup except maybe against Welding Jar (of which they run 0 to 1), so I don't see any reason to play Path over Push here.
Path is awkward against Titanshift, because giving them an extra land can cost us the game. They sometimes have Courser of Kruphix maindeck and some Rampaging Baloths after sideboarding, which I prefer to handle with Push, because I don't want to ramp an opponent whose primary deck strategy is ramping. I have seen a Chameleon Colossus once or twice, which is the one card that justifies not taking out all Paths in game 2 and 3. My entire game plan focuses on keeping Primeval Titan off the table, so I don't want to have to path it.
Against Death and Taxes, Push and Path seem to be on par. Path works more reliably against their bigger creatures, but on the other hand, it's much easier for them to lock us out of White than out of Black. Turn 2 Leonin Arbiter is no joke when we are on the draw and don't know yet what we are up against (which means, we usually fetched for Watery Grave on turn 1).
The only games I've felt very disadvantaged against E Tron have been ones with resolved Chalice or All is Dust, and I've played the matchup somewhere between 30-50 times. If you're playing ordinary magic, interacting with each other on conventional angles and smashing dudes into dudes, ourcardsaresimplybetterthantheirs.
Do you keep Lingering Souls in against Eldrazi Tron (I don't)? Do you board in your Blessed Alliances (I probably would)? I'm curious.
Another card that I have not been too happy with is Flaying Tendrils, which you have recently up-ed to 3 copies in the sideboard. This might have to do with the cards that get boarded out, though. The three major decks against which Flaying Tendrils is very relevant are Affinity, Vizier CoCo and Dredge. Against the swarm strategies of these decks, Lingering Souls is a reasonable card to have, especially when discarded with Collective Brutality. So I tend to leave a few copies of Lingering Souls in, taking out cards that are worse in the respective matchup instead. Unfortunately, Flaying Tendrils often gets in the way, so I have considered going down to 1 copy from 2.
Those matchups are all tough without Tendrils, and I also want access to the card for Elves, Storm, and D&T where Souls won't shine. Finding the first copy is often crucial to winning, which is why I've moved up to 3 and consider it the most important card in the sideboard aside from the 4th Stubs. Also remember that if you have resolved Souls against a deck like Affinity, you're probably winning already and you can just hold the Tendrils (unless they have an Etched Champion, of course). Against Vizier and Dredge, however, Souls isn't doing very much and Tendrils is likely to win the game if backed up by anything else.
Against Affinity, I'm usually more concerned with their airborne creatures than with their ground troops. But I run 3 Ceremonious Rejections and keep in some discard to get Etched Champion, so that might be the reason why I don't feel that I need it that much. Vizier Company has always been one of the easier matchups for me, even when I ran just a single sweeper. The games that I lost against it usually involved Gavony Township, against which Flaying Tendrils does not help. Dredge and Elves are tough, but both decks are not particularly popular right now.
You want broad cards that can come in for a lot of matchups, and LotV is still excellent in midrange mirrors and against control/combo. Burn falls into the category of being near-combo, and she's also very good there (especially postboard, where they're liable to be sitting on Paths and Deflecting Palms).
Thank you for these details on LotV. I have tried numerous times to warm up to her, but she just doesn't seem to be my kind of card. I liked Liliana, the Last Hope a little bit more, but don't really miss her now that I use her slot for something else.
Dredge is winnable between Paths and Tendrils (though you absolutely have to find those) if you leverage your life total correctly, and Living End is also very beatable with the playset of stubs and a fast clock. Those are the only two common matchups where Spellbomb is a true ace. I feel advantaged against every Snapcaster mage deck aside from UW, and the Jund Shadow matchup is laughably easy and doesn't need more Spellbombs to help out. Additionally, the metagame has shifted and punished graveyard decks pretty hard with a lot of people playing maindeck relics, so you don't need to pack as much hate yourself.
How much experience do you have playing the deck against Jund Shadow? I usually have problems keeping up with their higher threat density. And they often have Lingering Souls of their own. So I don't really see how this matchup is laughable easy. But maybe there is a trick to it that I haven't found yet.
I consider Jeskai Queller the most important Snapcaster Mage deck in the current metagame. What's your strategy against it and what makes you feel favored?
This might be a metagame call. I play on MTGO and the metagame isn't dominated by push-resilient threats. The most common decks seem to be Burn, Affinity and Grixis Shadow (which has some push-resilient threats, but not to a point where Push isn't a decent card to have). Eldrazi Tron seems to have taken a hit in popularity, likely due to the presence of Affinity. The only major deck that regularly packs pro black creatures is mono-white Death and Taxes, which makes up maybe 3% of the field. Mirran Crusader can be held at bay by Lingering Souls for a while and dies to Flaying Tendrils after boarding.
As I said, the only matchups where I actively want Push over Path are Storm and Burn. I think that leaving in Push against GDS is a trap, as the card is super narrow in that it only hits the namesake of the deck, which you should rarely lose to with the sideboard configuration. Perhaps Push vs Path is a, no pun intended, push, vs affinity, but it takes all of one time getting burnt by Welding Jar to not want it to ever happen again
Jund Death's Shadow with the white splash has grinded me out several times when I ran only light graveyard hate. Abzan is also a very tough matchup, with all those Scavening Oozes, Lingering Souls and Spellbombs getting in the way. B/W Tokens is usually a nightmare. These are midrange decks I don't feel favored against with 3 copies of Lingering Souls and no way to get back Snapcaster Mage outside of Tasigur.
If your Jund Shadow opponent has the white splash, the key is to keep them off of resolving a late game Traverse the Ulvenwald to find Ranger of Eos. You should be able to fight through everything else they throw at you if you're not drawing terribly. With Lingering Souls of our own to fight back on that same angle (and to really make Liliana of the Veil atrocious), I'd say that we should be much better off against Abzan than GDS, and they have roughly a 50/50 matchup there from my experience. You're not going to beat BW Tokens, but that's a fringe deck that you'll maybe see once in a dozen tournaments anyways. FWIW, Grixis Shadow isn't going to have any better of a time against them; Snap-Kommand loops don't keep up with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Bitterblossom, and Lingering Souls.
I rarely manage to achieve a sick tempo with my deck, so maybe I'm doing something wrong. In a metagame with so many fast aggro decks, I often end up not being the beatdown deck. Affinity and various Zoo variants seem to be just better at it.
A turn 2 4/5 or turn 3 7/7 backed by 1 mana removal spells and 1 mana counterspells is about as tempo-positive as you're going to get in Modern without filling your deck with badcards. You're absolutely correct in that you won't be the beatdown against Burn or Affinity, however. Even tempo decks need to play the control role against true aggro decks, but luckily we have a lot of very efficient tools for doing that as well.
Most of the current Grixis Shadow lists don't run Lightning Bolt. But I usually do and it's just not the same. Lightning Bolt kills all of their creatures without giving them a land. But the best part is that Lightning Bolt can be turned into a win condition when it is no longer needed as a creature removal. I have won so many games against burn with just a single Death's Shadow attack and a combination of Lightning Bolt, Snapcaster Mage, Collective Brutality, Kolaghan's Command and some help from their Shocklands. With Esper Shadow, I nearly always have to attack twice, which usually means that they have at least one more turn to burn me out.
Yes, Esper has a worse Burn matchup than Grixis. That's fine; Burn is less than 5% of the MTGO metagame per MTGGoldfish. Don't stress about 1 extra Fatal Push in the main specifically for this matchup which, as I've said, is one of the 2 in the format right now where I'd rather have more Pushes than Paths.
I definitely prefer Push against Affinity. It's in my primary color, it does not help them fix their mana situation, and it hits all of their non-Etched-Champion creatures without even requiring a revolt trigger, except for the occasional Master of Etherium, which usually gets sideboarded out. The exile clause doesn't matter in this matchup except maybe against Welding Jar (of which they run 0 to 1), so I don't see any reason to play Path over Push here.
Path is awkward against Titanshift, because giving them an extra land can cost us the game. They sometimes have Courser of Kruphix maindeck and some Rampaging Baloths after sideboarding, which I prefer to handle with Push, because I don't want to ramp an opponent whose primary deck strategy is ramping. I have seen a Chameleon Colossus once or twice, which is the one card that justifies not taking out all Paths in game 2 and 3. My entire game plan focuses on keeping Primeval Titan off the table, so I don't want to have to path it.
Against Death and Taxes, Push and Path seem to be on par. Path works more reliably against their bigger creatures, but on the other hand, it's much easier for them to lock us out of White than out of Black. Turn 2 Leonin Arbiter is no joke when we are on the draw and don't know yet what we are up against (which means, we usually fetched for Watery Grave on turn 1).
Affinity plays a single basic, and the games will typically run long enough that you find and cast multiple paths. You'll also want to be fetching white anyways for Lingering Souls and other sideboard cards at some point anyways. Like I said, it just takes one time getting burnt by Welding Jar
Don't kill Courser of Kruphix unless they're really on air; it's way too slow to actually matter. Obstinate Baloth is also going to be smaller than every non-Snapcaster threat typically, so you often won't need to remove it. Primeval Titan and Chameleon Colossus, however, need to die, and hitting the former with the trigger on the stack renders the free basic land quite irrelevant. Yes, the ideal is to never let them put it on the table, but sometimes it's going to happen and it's much better to have an answer and not need it than need an answer and not have it.
I'm hesitant to buy the Path=Push argument re:D&T. You're not always going to have a fetch to crack (thanks, Leonin Arbiter), whereas Path will always hit the mark. It's definitely close, however, and I'd love to have an extra 2 spot removal spells for 8 total if it were possible.
Against Affinity, I'm usually more concerned with their airborne creatures than with their ground troops. But I run 3 Ceremonious Rejections and keep in some discard to get Etched Champion, so that might be the reason why I don't feel that I need it that much. Vizier Company has always been one of the easier matchups for me, even when I ran just a single sweeper. The games that I lost against it usually involved Gavony Township, against which Flaying Tendrils does not help. Dredge and Elves are tough, but both decks are not particularly popular right now.
Etched Champion is the primary way to lose against Affinity, and Flaying Tendrils cleans up real nice. Really, I don't think you can ever have too many answers to EC and Cranial Plating. Good draws from CoCo decks involve them stalling out the ground with bodies that leave bodies behind, a la Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks, Collected Company. Tendrils knocks out that plan and also beats their Gavony Township plan if you nip it in the bud (which, if you're running triple Tendrils, is more likely than not). Dredge and Elves aren't popular, but swarm strategies in general (which are still a thing when you add up the total metagame shares) will be tough for us without Infest effects since we don't have access to something like a Temur Battle Rage.
Thank you for these details on LotV. I have tried numerous times to warm up to her, but she just doesn't seem to be my kind of card. I liked Liliana, the Last Hope a little bit more, but don't really miss her now that I use her slot for something else.
NP, the LotV isn't written down in pen, but I think it's a reasonable option right now. Things could easily shift away from that, however. Same goes with Last Hope; she's an absolute 10/10 brickhouse when she's good, and if more of the aforementioned swarm strategies pop up I could easily see her winning her spot back.
How much experience do you have playing the deck against Jund Shadow? I usually have problems keeping up with their higher threat density. And they often have Lingering Souls of their own. So I don't really see how this matchup is laughable easy. But maybe there is a trick to it that I haven't found yet.
I consider Jeskai Queller the most important Snapcaster Mage deck in the current metagame. What's your strategy against it and what makes you feel favored?
Jund Shadow has no answer to a delve threat and a very hard time punching through Lingering Souls, of which we'll find more on average because of the high cantrip density (and sweet Thought Scour synergies). Their Pushes will be garbage, and ours will be excellent. We have Snapcaster Mage and library manipulation; they don't. Board in more business spells to answer the board or stack and find a window to exploit them going to a low life total.
Jeskai Queller is a tempo deck, and will often try to pivot into a glorified burn deck when the time is right. Be cautious with your life total and don't treat them like a true control deck where you'd normally damage yourself with impunity. They're very soft to the delve threats and souls, respectively, and if you can punch a hole in their hand they'll have a hard time lining up the correct answers. I'd also point to Goldfish here showing Jeskai with a 1.61% metagame share on MTGO and suggest that Grixis DS and UW control be treated as more likely Snapcaster Mage decks to run across.
Hi,
Have found this thread very very useful in preparing for my next modern event. I'm almost settled on a stock maindeck (3 path, 3 push, 3 stubs, 3 wraith) and am trying to build a sideboard. I'd like to have diverse targets for snappier and would welcome comments on:
Valorous Stance (vs UW, DS and Tron)
Extirpate (over surgical extraction)
Echoing Truth (is dealing with blood moon et al for 1 turn sufficient?)
Flaying Tendrils (2 or 3 copies?)
2/2 or 3/1 split of ceremonious rejection / disenchant (I'm not running esper charm)
Disdainful Stroke (is there a better option after the 4th stubborn denial)?
- Played in Order: Mono U Turns(2-0), Jund(2-0), Living End(2-1), Scapeshift(0-2), Scapeshift(1-2), and Mono G Tron(2-1) in the Swiss. Got 8th since I started 3-0 and both loses top 8'd
- Lost to same Scapeshift player in Top 8(friends on same list): Engineered Explosives was rough, as well as sideboard Narnam Renegade and Chamelleon Colossus. Just to many threats to answer.
Some General Thoughts:
- Love the 3 snap/1 lili split. Snap clogs hand some. Ulted Lili twice vs Tron and helped win those games
- Stony Silence was great vs Tron, 2 is probably the right number
- Still couldn't find Spellbomb(came in mail day after) so I played 1 Relic, never cast it, beat Living End cause Tasigur milled 2 Death Shadows
- I would like a 3rd Denial somewhere in the 75, just don't know what to cut
- 2 Disenchant is probably too many, but I want outs to resolved Chalice. Not sure what to do with these
- Stroke was great vs Tron, but I might cut it for the 3rd Denial as it's more useful, any thoughts on this?
Thanks. What did stony shut down out of tron? Why us the scapeshift match up unfavourable, please?
- Stony shuts down O-Stone, any of their star/spheres, and expedition map. Landing it early makes it hard for them to get an early Tron and stops them from cantripping or even getting green mana.
- Scapeshift is always bad for any Death Shadow deck, unless others disagree. Thoughseize isn't great cause most of their deck is threats and they top deck better than you. You also have to get super low so Death Shadow puts a clock on them, then Valakut triggers can just finish you off. You can still win, but it is very difficult.
- Not worth it to improve Scapeshift matchup, as you'll be making your other matchups worse. If you really wanted to improve it, you would play more Disdainful Stroke, Aven Mindcensor, or Surgical Extraction and maybe try to Thought Scour them to hit a Valakut.
I've seen people play 3 Wraith and 3 Stubborn Denial, how is that going for people. I'm looking to go from 2 to 3 Denial and never thought of cutting a Wraith. I've always loved Wraith as it lets you get out DS fast and lets you keep land light hands.
Played test games vs UW spirits yesterday. Stubs was good. Wraith felt weak against their aerial clock, but did cycle me into a needed fatal push for push snap push at one stage.
Hey guys, so, I've been playing shadow for about a month now, and my results are far from great. Any tips on common play mistakes? This deck just has not done any work for me. I would appreciate the help. Thanks.
Will follow up with a report later, let's hope to run hot :x
EDIT:
Beat burn round 1, drew no gas against UW control at the back end of a game 3, lost to blood moon game 1 round 3 and game 2 started off with 5/6 draws yielding lands. my one discard spell i drew was inquisition and opponent had wrath/nahiri (i sided out 1 c. brutality/1 inquisition) if it were my thoughtseize, would have just bought it back with snapcaster to run the guy over but nahiri + double cast out helped him hunker down. Played until i went x-3 just to humor what the loser's bracket was like, ended up beating BW eldrazi taxes convincingly then lost a game 3 to jund midrange where their fatal pushes were useless against my double delve creature draw so they topdecked not one but two lilianas back to back to stay alive and a dark confidant to pull ahead on cards.
Based on results from yesterday can seriously say I feel like I'm cursed after having drawn 19/19 lands with RG vengevine last week, mulligan into oblivion two PPTQs in a row the weekend prior, after mulliganing into oblivion in the top 8 of the PPTQ the week prior to those. But the great ones say you have to make your own luck so here's what I'll be testing and bringing to the table next week:
At this point I am just metagaming, need outs to control opponents and I feel like the Plains to fight Blood Moon and the D-Sphere to hit mostly everything (especially planeswalkers) will be a good option
As an aside, Curiosity was a m**f***ing stud every time I had it. So much better value against the opponents you would want Lilianas for. Plus, against burn, you can play it for much cheaper to have your creatures absorb damage like a vitamin, while drawing into outs to let you better shield your face. The 1cc is key. I can definitely say that the Flashfreeze, while not hitting E-Tron's big threats, or planeswalkers out of UW control, was key in beating burn while also being relevant against RG Titanshift. If I had to swap it for anything it'd be a disdainful stroke, but i feel Flashfreeze is the much better hedge right now.
There aren't many decks that use Ghost Quarter aggressively and if they do, they often combine it with Leonin Arbiter.
Judging from the photo posted on twitter, Thomas Enevoldson's deck only had 18 lands MD (missing a shockland) and the basic plains was actually the 19th land. My guess is that the basic plains is an option for grindier matches where the deck might run out of fetch targets and maybe against Blood Moon. Having a third basic land is also good if the opponent's deck has a full playset of Path to Exile, like Abzan Midrange does.
Round 1 - Sam, UW Control (0-2, lost die roll)
Mmm, nothing quite like the round 1 feature match first thing in the morning - I've played a lot at the TJ's series and Sam won one of the events (in May, I believe), so I wasn't terribly shocked by this. Sam is friends with a good friend of mine from the Boston area who has been on UW forever, so I know what he's playing before we start, but it sadly doesn't make the matchup any better. I open with a land light hand that gets stonewalled by multiple Spreading Seas cutting me off of black mana for multiple turns as my hand clumps up with multiple delve threats and a Lingering Souls in the graveyard. I end up working him down to 1 post-Verdict and a top-decked Godless Shrine lets me flash back Lingering Souls. At this point, I have 4 total lands, and my opponent double Tectonic Edges me on end step. Considering that there are 2 Supreme verdict left in the deck vs my pair of Souls tokens, but Detention Sphere and Jace, Architect of Thought also beat my current board, I resolve to flash in a Snap with my mana. He topdecks 2nd Verdict and I lose to Colonnade a few turns later (while holding a Fatal Push and a Path to Exile that I can't cast, of which I drew 2 each).
-4 Path to Exile -1 Street Wraith, +2 Collective Brutality +1 Stubborn Denial +1 Esper Charm +1 Liliana of the Veil
I take a mull and see a slower 6 with a delve threat and snap with no spells, but knowing how important total card quantity is in an attrition matchup is, I keep it. I luck out and find some early spells, casting Thoughtseize Snap-TS to take Jace and Gideon. I also cast Esper Charm and flashed it back, and Souls tokens buy a bunch of time vs his Colonnade. I put lethal on board with a giant Death's Shadow and Stubborn Denial as my last card in hand, and his Runed Halo with Cryptic Command backup buys him time as my next two draw-steps are another Shadow and a land. I end up dying to Colonnade after having fired off a Push on one earlier in the game. This isn't a particularly great matchup in my estimation, but I didn't feel like my deck was very kind to me this round
Rd 2 - Grixis Shadow (2-0, lost die roll)
It's hard to remember much, aside from my opponent playing Claim//Fame, Vendetta, and responding to my Inquisition of Kozilek with Stubborn Denial with no creatures on board vs my open mana while he had actual cards in hand.
Rd 3 - Jund (2-0, lost die roll)
My opponent mulls to 5 and has a pair of Tarmogoyf, but Death's Shadow is a more efficient beater, as I intentionally put myself to 1 to put him into the abyss with Stubs and double removal spell backup, killing him the next turn.
-4 Thoughtseize -2 Inquisition of Kozilek, +2 Blessed Alliance +2 Collective Brutality +1 Esper Charm +1 Liliana of the Veil
Game two my opponent has the dream curve of discard spell into Bob into Lili, the last of which sneaks in under my Stubs as I'm forced to Path the Bob before it can produce value. With double delve threats, I set up to throw away both a Tasigur and Angler if I have to in order to get the Lili off the board, but topdecked Souls bail me out. After flashing back Souls and casting the Angler, my opponent topdecks an Olivia Voldaren. I topdeck a Lili of my own and draw Snap that can target both Stubs and a Path for his Ravine to close off all the angles from there.
Rd 4 - Burn (2-1, won die roll)
Uh, pretty standard stuff game one. I'm blind in the matchup and keep a slow one with no delve threat or DS, and Lingering Souls sucks at racing.
-3 Street Wraith -4 Thoughtseize, +2 Blessed Alliance +2 Collective Brutality +1 Esper Charm +1 Liliana of the Veil +1 Stubborn Denial
I really wish that I kept better notes for this game, but I cast a turn 1 IoK to see a grip of fetchland, Goblin Guide, double Monastery Swiftspear, double Eidolon of the Great Revel, Boros Charm, opting to take an Eidolon. I don't remember much of the game, aside from drawing double Blessed Alliance, a Death's Shadow, and at least 1 Stubborn Denial as my opponent curves out flawlessly but dies to a gigantic Shadow.
Game 3 I force trades of resources with Iok, push, and serum off of basic island and swamp in the first 2 turns, and cast my 2nd Gurmag Angler for 6 mana after the first one gets Pathed and finish the game off after my opponent bricks for exactly 1 turn too many. I win at 4 life while my opponent has a known {card]Skullcrack[/card] in hand.
Rd 5 - Titan Breach (2-0, win die roll)
After taking a mull to 6 and scrying top, I opt to Thought Scour my opponent and mill Wooded Foothills and a basic mountain. Passing to my opponent and seeing a basic forest into Relic of Progenitus, I think he's on ponza and choose to fetch basic swamp, which hurts when I draw DS a few turns later. Unable to pressure, and after hitting some timely land drops in spite of my Scour line, he hits his fifth land to Through the Breach a Primeval Titan as I Path to Exile it in response to the trigger. Choosing to get a single Valakut and mountain to bolt my currently tiny Shadow down, he ends up losing the game as he hits land drops, bolting me piecemeal as I find a Shadow at 9 life. He bolts me again and I hit him from 13 down to 4 after shocking myself with Stubs backup. Having sandbagged a fetchland in play, my opponent rubs his hands together and slowly draws off the top. He peels another fetch, puts it into play, and kind of stares at me, announcing "second fetch, I'll crack both of them". Asking him to show me the red sources, he gives a shy look at his library and reveals that he has already hit all of his nonbasic red sources and can't deal damage with valakut. Remember kids - ALWAYS make them show you it.
Rd 6 - BW Eldrazi (1-2, won die roll)
I cast 3 discard spells and tear my opponent's hand to shreds as a 6/6 Shadow comes down and closes the game quickly.
-2 Tasigur -2 Gurmag Angler -3 Street Wraith, +3 Flaying Tendrils +1 Blessed Alliance +2 Collective Brutality +1 Liliana [I put my opponent on the Eldrazi Taxes deck after game one, having not seen any signature cards game 1. I also expected multiple RiPs to compliment 4 Relics].
Game 2 I get put on the backfoot with multiple Scullers disrupting my draw, backed by Souls flashback Souls, and a follow-up Smasher. My cards quite simply didn't line up well here.
Resideboard: -3 Flaying Tendrils -1 Liliana, +2 Angler +1 Tasigur +1 Stubborn Denial [In retrospect, should have only brought in 1 Tas 1 Angler]
My opponent mulls to 5 and I'm feeling pretty great after casting an early discard spell to see a hand of Caves of Koilos, Fatal Push, Blessed Alliance, Tidehollow Sculler. Knowing that I have a removal spell for the Sculler on top, I choose to take the Alliance for the long game once I start putting down threats through his turn 1 Relic. Sadly, my opponent topdecks another Sculler into Eldrazi Temple + Thought-knot Seer as my next two draw steps are my other delve threats left and I have no removal. His next 2 draw steps find him Lingering Souls and a Path to Exile. I really wish I had recorded every draw step in this game, since it felt like a stacked deck situation while I flopped around on a 7 and died.
Rd 7 - Mono U Tron (2-0, win die roll)
Going in blind, I have no interaction for Chalice, so on turn 2 I aggressively Thought Scour myself, to try and find a discard spell, failing to do so. My opponent promptly casts Chalice on 1 for his turn 2. I come very close to scooping on the spot to save time, but I decide to play it out. After flashing in a pair of end-steps Ambush Vipers and sneaking in a Fatal Push on his Spellskite through Chalice with some nifty wording (Attack you, before blocks kill your guy), Souls - flashback Souls after he pops Oblivion Stone somehow manages to clock him out before anything disastrous can happen.
-2 Fatal Push -2 Path to Exile -3 Lingering Souls, +2 Ceremonious Rejection +2 Disenchant +1 Stubborn Denial +1 Esper Charm +1 Liliana of the Veil
Weird game, both of us kind of durdle around not doing much since he has turn 1 Relic. I end up casting Esper Charm to Mind Rot him in response to a Thirst for knowledge to tag his last two cards. I aggressively hurt myself and go to 1 and draw multiple Wraiths, as between a pair of Remand and an overloaded Cyclonic Rift they don't exactly present the fastest clock. Eventually I find a Shadow and my opponent sticks a Sundering Titan to blow up 3 of my lands. Thankfully my 1 mana creature is bigger than his 8 mana one and he's forced to block as I miss free damage for some stupid reason. I also cast a Snap into the Titan leaves-play trigger for literally no reason and let them cash in their last card in hand, a Condescend, to draw to additional outs. Thankfully I don't get punished, but I feel like I generally played like crap in this round. Maybe karma decided to bail me out for the previous round. Or maybe better lucky than good
Rd 8 - Knightfall (2-1, lost die roll)
Spell Queller is very good in multiples, tagging a Snap that was looking to hit the other Queller with a flashbacked Fatal Push. I never stabilize against his fliers and die quickly.
-3 Lingering Souls -3 Street Wraith, +3 Flaying Tendrils +1 Liliana of the Veil +1 Esper Charm +1 Stubborn Denial [I was going through the sideboard rather quickly and totally spaced on Collective Brutality]
Game 2 my opponent mulls to 6 and keeps a draw with 4 mana dorks. He draws his fifth one and plays it. I cast a Flaying Tendrils.
Resideboard: -1 Liliana of the Veil -1 Esper Charm, +2 Collective Brutality
I leverage my life total as a resource for a few turns to cast multiple discard spells, to include an escalated Brutality to tag his Unified Will. I miss land drops as my opponent recovers from the discard with Renegade Rallier. After putting an Angler on the table facing his Voice and Rallier, I have the option to cast a Flaying Tendrils, but opt to hold it for an extra turn of value. On the following turn, I block the voice and let him pump an extra 2 damage into the Rallier with Kessig Wolf Run as I take this as a sign that he's on air, casting a Tendrils on my turn for a clean 2-for-1 while holding Push, Path, and Snap to clear the ground the rest of the way. He draws a CoCo but doesn't hit Eternal Witness or Reflector Mage, so I get there. Of important note here is that my opponent had about a billion grindy cards in their 75, but as the archetypes match up, it just doesn't really matter. You can ignore many of the bodies on their creatures until you eventually turn the corner, closing the game within a small window.
Final record: 6-2, good for top 16
Closing thoughts: Deck is still great. The draws vs UW and BW could have very easily shifted my way, and I didn't feel far off of another top 8. I don't think I'll make any changes for SCG Syracuse this next weekend. I promise I'll give some detailed notes for that if you guys are interested.
Path to Exile feels indispensable 20% of the time and like a necessary evil 80% of the time. I just hate giving my opponent extra lands with this deck. Unlike Grixis Shadow, we don't have access to the Snapcaster Mage + Kommand engine. So, most other midrange decks have a better lategame then us. Giving them extra lands to bring their manlands online and thin out their deck is not helpful. Each time you mention that somebody topdecked against you multiple times, I can't help suspecting some correlation to the free deck thinning by Path to Exile, even though it might not be THAT relevant. However, it certainly isn't completely irrelevant.
Burn is another matchup that feels considerably harder with Esper Shadow than with Grixis Shadow. Path to Exile requires mana in the least important color in the deck, for which no basic land can be fetched. Furthermore, Burn decks have a greedy manabase of 19-20 lands and no cantrips. More often than not, they can put an extra land to good use. They also love deck-thinning.
The one top tier deck against which Path to Exile is usually considerably better than Fatal Push is Eldrazi Tron. But overall, this is another matchup that feels worse with Esper Shadow than with Grixis Shadow. Esper Shadow has no maindeck answer to a resolved Chalice of the Void and the CMC1 of Path to Exile means that a Chalice for 1 is enough to lock Esper Shadow completely out of creature removal.
Another card that I have not been too happy with is Flaying Tendrils, which you have recently up-ed to 3 copies in the sideboard. This might have to do with the cards that get boarded out, though. The three major decks against which Flaying Tendrils is very relevant are Affinity, Vizier CoCo and Dredge. Against the swarm strategies of these decks, Lingering Souls is a reasonable card to have, especially when discarded with Collective Brutality. So I tend to leave a few copies of Lingering Souls in, taking out cards that are worse in the respective matchup instead. Unfortunately, Flaying Tendrils often gets in the way, so I have considered going down to 1 copy from 2.
I recently tested Liliana of the Veil in this deck and wasn't overly impressed. I often found myself in the awkward situation of having to discard cards that I would have rather kept in hand while my opponent discarded lands. Liliana is very good against Grixis Shadow, but that is already one of the most favorable matchups. I won against Control with her once, which felt good, but at the same time it felt very cumbersome. The most important Control deck is currently Jeskai Control, which can easily deal with Liliana.
Did you really cut your dedicated graveyard hate down to just one copy of Nihil Spellbomb? That seems very greedy to me. Dredge might not be that popular at the moment, but Traverse the Ulvenwald and Snapcaster Mage can certainly get out of hand if undisturbed. Maybe your plan is to dodge other midrange decks for the most part.
Is Esper Charm really worth it? I considered it several times, but never found room for it. I view it as kind of a worse version of Kolaghan's Command. On the upside, it doesn't depend on the graveyard. So I'm not sure about it and would really appreciate if you would explain your preference for it in a little more detail.
Path takes their Snap-Kommand engine off-line quite easily, and having 4 cheap answers to the Push-resilient threats (which are dominating the format right now: this is why Eldrazi decks, delve decks, value decks with cards like Voice of Resurgence, hosers that dodge black removal like Chameleon Colossus and Mirran Crusader, etc., have become so popular) is a huge boon right now. Basically, the format has adjusted to the presence of Push, but Path is still excellent. I also have not found other midrange decks to have a better lategame, since Lingering Souls by itself is tough to answer, and the high density of cantrips, efficient disruption, and cheap beaters makes matchups where the opponent is casting 4 mana creatures very winnable. Finally, I think that people overplay the cost of giving the opponent a basic, as many decks in the format play a limited number of them and early on you don't generally need to path, while later on the land doesn't matter much. Also, our tempo game is sick and we can make up for it by being more efficient at basically every point on the curve!
I'd generally agree with most of these points, and it's why I have 7 cards in the sideboard for Burn presently. I will point out, however, that Grixis has a similar problem of fetching for a red source to cast Lightning Bolt, as they don't play basic mountain and red is their off-color. With tight play and ample sideboarding, the matchup is very reasonable however.
And Grixis DS, and affinity, and Titan Shift/Breach, and regular tron, and D&T, and Dredge, and I'm sure some other matchups I'm not thinking of. In fact, the only matchups I want Push more than Path are Burn and Storm specifically.
The only games I've felt very disadvantaged against E Tron have been ones with resolved Chalice or All is Dust, and I've played the matchup somewhere between 30-50 times. If you're playing ordinary magic, interacting with each other on conventional angles and smashing dudes into dudes, our cards are simply better than theirs.
Those matchups are all tough without Tendrils, and I also want access to the card for Elves, Storm, and D&T where Souls won't shine. Finding the first copy is often crucial to winning, which is why I've moved up to 3 and consider it the most important card in the sideboard aside from the 4th Stubs. Also remember that if you have resolved Souls against a deck like Affinity, you're probably winning already and you can just hold the Tendrils (unless they have an Etched Champion, of course). Against Vizier and Dredge, however, Souls isn't doing very much and Tendrils is likely to win the game if backed up by anything else.
You want broad cards that can come in for a lot of matchups, and LotV is still excellent in midrange mirrors and against control/combo. Burn falls into the category of being near-combo, and she's also very good there (especially postboard, where they're liable to be sitting on Paths and Deflecting Palms).
Dredge is winnable between Paths and Tendrils (though you absolutely have to find those) if you leverage your life total correctly, and Living End is also very beatable with the playset of stubs and a fast clock. Those are the only two common matchups where Spellbomb is a true ace. I feel advantaged against every Snapcaster mage deck aside from UW, and the Jund Shadow matchup is laughably easy and doesn't need more Spellbombs to help out. Additionally, the metagame has shifted and punished graveyard decks pretty hard with a lot of people playing maindeck relics, so you don't need to pack as much hate yourself.
I tried it out for a laugh (like, literally the result of a joke with a friend) and was surprisingly happy with it. Postboard, the cards in your deck tend to line up better and drawing 2 or mind-rotting your opponent can put in serious work. It also provides another out to pesky enchantments like Rest in Peace and Leyline of Sanctity, as well as being outstanding against Burn (they really don't like Mind Rot effects). It's not essential by any means, but I've been reasonably impressed by the card and will likely continue to play the one copy (one-ofs being generally better in Snap-Scour decks than normal, of course).
Path is awkward against Titanshift, because giving them an extra land can cost us the game. They sometimes have Courser of Kruphix maindeck and some Rampaging Baloths after sideboarding, which I prefer to handle with Push, because I don't want to ramp an opponent whose primary deck strategy is ramping. I have seen a Chameleon Colossus once or twice, which is the one card that justifies not taking out all Paths in game 2 and 3. My entire game plan focuses on keeping Primeval Titan off the table, so I don't want to have to path it.
Against Death and Taxes, Push and Path seem to be on par. Path works more reliably against their bigger creatures, but on the other hand, it's much easier for them to lock us out of White than out of Black. Turn 2 Leonin Arbiter is no joke when we are on the draw and don't know yet what we are up against (which means, we usually fetched for Watery Grave on turn 1). Do you keep Lingering Souls in against Eldrazi Tron (I don't)? Do you board in your Blessed Alliances (I probably would)? I'm curious. Against Affinity, I'm usually more concerned with their airborne creatures than with their ground troops. But I run 3 Ceremonious Rejections and keep in some discard to get Etched Champion, so that might be the reason why I don't feel that I need it that much. Vizier Company has always been one of the easier matchups for me, even when I ran just a single sweeper. The games that I lost against it usually involved Gavony Township, against which Flaying Tendrils does not help. Dredge and Elves are tough, but both decks are not particularly popular right now. Thank you for these details on LotV. I have tried numerous times to warm up to her, but she just doesn't seem to be my kind of card. I liked Liliana, the Last Hope a little bit more, but don't really miss her now that I use her slot for something else. How much experience do you have playing the deck against Jund Shadow? I usually have problems keeping up with their higher threat density. And they often have Lingering Souls of their own. So I don't really see how this matchup is laughable easy. But maybe there is a trick to it that I haven't found yet.
I consider Jeskai Queller the most important Snapcaster Mage deck in the current metagame. What's your strategy against it and what makes you feel favored?
As I said, the only matchups where I actively want Push over Path are Storm and Burn. I think that leaving in Push against GDS is a trap, as the card is super narrow in that it only hits the namesake of the deck, which you should rarely lose to with the sideboard configuration. Perhaps Push vs Path is a, no pun intended, push, vs affinity, but it takes all of one time getting burnt by Welding Jar to not want it to ever happen again
If your Jund Shadow opponent has the white splash, the key is to keep them off of resolving a late game Traverse the Ulvenwald to find Ranger of Eos. You should be able to fight through everything else they throw at you if you're not drawing terribly. With Lingering Souls of our own to fight back on that same angle (and to really make Liliana of the Veil atrocious), I'd say that we should be much better off against Abzan than GDS, and they have roughly a 50/50 matchup there from my experience. You're not going to beat BW Tokens, but that's a fringe deck that you'll maybe see once in a dozen tournaments anyways. FWIW, Grixis Shadow isn't going to have any better of a time against them; Snap-Kommand loops don't keep up with Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, Bitterblossom, and Lingering Souls.
A turn 2 4/5 or turn 3 7/7 backed by 1 mana removal spells and 1 mana counterspells is about as tempo-positive as you're going to get in Modern without filling your deck with bad cards. You're absolutely correct in that you won't be the beatdown against Burn or Affinity, however. Even tempo decks need to play the control role against true aggro decks, but luckily we have a lot of very efficient tools for doing that as well.
Yes, Esper has a worse Burn matchup than Grixis. That's fine; Burn is less than 5% of the MTGO metagame per MTGGoldfish. Don't stress about 1 extra Fatal Push in the main specifically for this matchup which, as I've said, is one of the 2 in the format right now where I'd rather have more Pushes than Paths.
Affinity plays a single basic, and the games will typically run long enough that you find and cast multiple paths. You'll also want to be fetching white anyways for Lingering Souls and other sideboard cards at some point anyways. Like I said, it just takes one time getting burnt by Welding Jar
Don't kill Courser of Kruphix unless they're really on air; it's way too slow to actually matter. Obstinate Baloth is also going to be smaller than every non-Snapcaster threat typically, so you often won't need to remove it. Primeval Titan and Chameleon Colossus, however, need to die, and hitting the former with the trigger on the stack renders the free basic land quite irrelevant. Yes, the ideal is to never let them put it on the table, but sometimes it's going to happen and it's much better to have an answer and not need it than need an answer and not have it.
I'm hesitant to buy the Path=Push argument re:D&T. You're not always going to have a fetch to crack (thanks, Leonin Arbiter), whereas Path will always hit the mark. It's definitely close, however, and I'd love to have an extra 2 spot removal spells for 8 total if it were possible.
Play: -2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang -2 Fatal Push -1 Street Wraith, +2 Disenchant +2 Ceremonious Rejection +1 Stubborn Denial
Draw: -3 Lingering Souls -2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang -3 Street Wraith -1 Fatal Push, +2 Disenchant +2 Ceremonious Rejection +2 Blessed Alliance +1 Esper Charm +1 Stubborn Denial
Mix up the angle of attack on the play and overload their Ratchet Bombs and Relics. Getting underneath them and being able to resolve Souls with a 1 mana counterspell up should be feasible, and the fliers get around their plan on mucking up the ground with annoying blockers like Hangarback Walker and Matter Reshaper quite nicely. On the draw this plan gets a lot worse, and you'll need more reactive elements as you try to grind them down a bit. Alliance gets a lot better here as they actually threaten to outrace you otherwise.
Etched Champion is the primary way to lose against Affinity, and Flaying Tendrils cleans up real nice. Really, I don't think you can ever have too many answers to EC and Cranial Plating. Good draws from CoCo decks involve them stalling out the ground with bodies that leave bodies behind, a la Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks, Collected Company. Tendrils knocks out that plan and also beats their Gavony Township plan if you nip it in the bud (which, if you're running triple Tendrils, is more likely than not). Dredge and Elves aren't popular, but swarm strategies in general (which are still a thing when you add up the total metagame shares) will be tough for us without Infest effects since we don't have access to something like a Temur Battle Rage.
NP, the LotV isn't written down in pen, but I think it's a reasonable option right now. Things could easily shift away from that, however. Same goes with Last Hope; she's an absolute 10/10 brickhouse when she's good, and if more of the aforementioned swarm strategies pop up I could easily see her winning her spot back.
Jund Shadow has no answer to a delve threat and a very hard time punching through Lingering Souls, of which we'll find more on average because of the high cantrip density (and sweet Thought Scour synergies). Their Pushes will be garbage, and ours will be excellent. We have Snapcaster Mage and library manipulation; they don't. Board in more business spells to answer the board or stack and find a window to exploit them going to a low life total.
Jeskai Queller is a tempo deck, and will often try to pivot into a glorified burn deck when the time is right. Be cautious with your life total and don't treat them like a true control deck where you'd normally damage yourself with impunity. They're very soft to the delve threats and souls, respectively, and if you can punch a hole in their hand they'll have a hard time lining up the correct answers. I'd also point to Goldfish here showing Jeskai with a 1.61% metagame share on MTGO and suggest that Grixis DS and UW control be treated as more likely Snapcaster Mage decks to run across.
Have found this thread very very useful in preparing for my next modern event. I'm almost settled on a stock maindeck (3 path, 3 push, 3 stubs, 3 wraith) and am trying to build a sideboard. I'd like to have diverse targets for snappier and would welcome comments on:
Valorous Stance (vs UW, DS and Tron)
Extirpate (over surgical extraction)
Echoing Truth (is dealing with blood moon et al for 1 turn sufficient?)
Flaying Tendrils (2 or 3 copies?)
2/2 or 3/1 split of ceremonious rejection / disenchant (I'm not running esper charm)
Disdainful Stroke (is there a better option after the 4th stubborn denial)?
Thanks!
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=16376&f=MO
- Played in Order: Mono U Turns(2-0), Jund(2-0), Living End(2-1), Scapeshift(0-2), Scapeshift(1-2), and Mono G Tron(2-1) in the Swiss. Got 8th since I started 3-0 and both loses top 8'd
- Lost to same Scapeshift player in Top 8(friends on same list): Engineered Explosives was rough, as well as sideboard Narnam Renegade and Chamelleon Colossus. Just to many threats to answer.
Some General Thoughts:
- Love the 3 snap/1 lili split. Snap clogs hand some. Ulted Lili twice vs Tron and helped win those games
- Stony Silence was great vs Tron, 2 is probably the right number
- Still couldn't find Spellbomb(came in mail day after) so I played 1 Relic, never cast it, beat Living End cause Tasigur milled 2 Death Shadows
- I would like a 3rd Denial somewhere in the 75, just don't know what to cut
- 2 Disenchant is probably too many, but I want outs to resolved Chalice. Not sure what to do with these
- Stroke was great vs Tron, but I might cut it for the 3rd Denial as it's more useful, any thoughts on this?
- Stony shuts down O-Stone, any of their star/spheres, and expedition map. Landing it early makes it hard for them to get an early Tron and stops them from cantripping or even getting green mana.
- Scapeshift is always bad for any Death Shadow deck, unless others disagree. Thoughseize isn't great cause most of their deck is threats and they top deck better than you. You also have to get super low so Death Shadow puts a clock on them, then Valakut triggers can just finish you off. You can still win, but it is very difficult.
What tron cards did stony catch?
Why is scspeshift a bad match up and what might be done to improve it?
- Not worth it to improve Scapeshift matchup, as you'll be making your other matchups worse. If you really wanted to improve it, you would play more Disdainful Stroke, Aven Mindcensor, or Surgical Extraction and maybe try to Thought Scour them to hit a Valakut.
I've seen people play 3 Wraith and 3 Stubborn Denial, how is that going for people. I'm looking to go from 2 to 3 Denial and never thought of cutting a Wraith. I've always loved Wraith as it lets you get out DS fast and lets you keep land light hands.
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Gurmag Angler
3x Street Wraith
4x Thought Scour
4x Serum Visions
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
3x Stubborn Denial
3x Fatal Push
3x Path to Exile
1x Collective Brutality
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Island
2x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Flashfreeze
4x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Stubborn Denial
1x Path to Exile
1x Collective Brutality
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Disenchant
2x Curiosity
Will follow up with a report later, let's hope to run hot :x
EDIT:
Beat burn round 1, drew no gas against UW control at the back end of a game 3, lost to blood moon game 1 round 3 and game 2 started off with 5/6 draws yielding lands. my one discard spell i drew was inquisition and opponent had wrath/nahiri (i sided out 1 c. brutality/1 inquisition) if it were my thoughtseize, would have just bought it back with snapcaster to run the guy over but nahiri + double cast out helped him hunker down. Played until i went x-3 just to humor what the loser's bracket was like, ended up beating BW eldrazi taxes convincingly then lost a game 3 to jund midrange where their fatal pushes were useless against my double delve creature draw so they topdecked not one but two lilianas back to back to stay alive and a dark confidant to pull ahead on cards.
Based on results from yesterday can seriously say I feel like I'm cursed after having drawn 19/19 lands with RG vengevine last week, mulligan into oblivion two PPTQs in a row the weekend prior, after mulliganing into oblivion in the top 8 of the PPTQ the week prior to those. But the great ones say you have to make your own luck so here's what I'll be testing and bringing to the table next week:
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Gurmag Angler
4x Street Wraith
4x Thought Scour
4x Serum Visions
4x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Lingering Souls
3x Stubborn Denial
3x Fatal Push
3x Path to Exile
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Island
2x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Flashfreeze
1x Detention Sphere
1x Plains
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Stubborn Denial
2x Collective Brutality
2x Flaying Tendrils
1x Disenchant
2x Curiosity
At this point I am just metagaming, need outs to control opponents and I feel like the Plains to fight Blood Moon and the D-Sphere to hit mostly everything (especially planeswalkers) will be a good option
As an aside, Curiosity was a m**f***ing stud every time I had it. So much better value against the opponents you would want Lilianas for. Plus, against burn, you can play it for much cheaper to have your creatures absorb damage like a vitamin, while drawing into outs to let you better shield your face. The 1cc is key. I can definitely say that the Flashfreeze, while not hitting E-Tron's big threats, or planeswalkers out of UW control, was key in beating burn while also being relevant against RG Titanshift. If I had to swap it for anything it'd be a disdainful stroke, but i feel Flashfreeze is the much better hedge right now.