When looking at your list, 2 things jumped to mind. First, your manabase is pretty safe by the looks of things. I wonder if you could swap out 1 Misty Rainforest for 1 utility land (perhaps ghost quarter, township, westvale abbey etc). It still gives you 20 lands that add relevant colours, and you have 7 dorks. Seems like that'd be ok as a 1-of. Testing would tell us 1 way or the other.
Yeah I might even cut a dork and add a utility land. I've had a few games where a dork gets bolted, and I kept a 1-2 lander, and it didn't pan out well.. I had Gavony in earlier lists, but rarely used it. Still, maybe it's worth a slot. I might take a look at some other Utility lands that might be interesting too. Westvale Abbey is a pretty wild card. I have actually never seen that before.
Second - how do you fare vs U control? It seems like theres a few too many "do nothing" cards. Eldritch Evo is card disadvantage when countered, path isnt overly relevant vs blue, and Wall of Omens, Oath of Nissa, lands and dorks can mostly be ignored. Even Reflector Mage is poor vs them. Looks a rough match-up. Is that the case or do is play out differently?
Actually the control match is not all that bad. Voice gives them a lot of trouble, they can path it, but outside of that it's gonna be a Pain to deal with. With Rallier, you have a great value engine with Voice. Them alone can just win the game for you. But when the game goes long, what we have going for us, is that they need to hold on to disruption to stop a combo, but we are also chipping away with creatures. Tt gives them a lot to deal with, and we can usually grind them out pretty easily. I actually think control is pretty good MU.
Final point - is the 1st Eternal Witness better than the 3rd Renegade Rallier? I like the line of Witness into Felidar, and you still have access to the Rallier + Evo line most of the time with 2 copies. I've always liked the flexibility of witness (getting paths, discarded / countered Evos, Saheeli) and just feel like it's a relevant card?
Witness is definitely really good. I had her in earlier lists, and she made for some great plays. She might be better than the 3rd Rallier, but Rallier really does have such insane synergy with the deck, and I love the Voice, Rallier engine together. It can be really hard for the opponent to deal with. They use removal on Voice, and We get a token. Then We Rallier, and get Voice back. Now they need removal for Voice again, AND for the token, annnd for the Rallier if they don't want us to blink it.. If they do that, then they basically have no hand. We play another Rallier, or Voice, or blink Rallier for Voice again, etc, etc. It gets really annoying real quick.
Rallier also can ramp you with a fetchland, can be really effective dig with Oath of Nissa, Revive killed creature, Or bring back Evo fodder. It is a tough call though, and I admit Witness is very good.
A deck like this just has near endless configurations. It's so hard to nail down a set list.
I personally moved away from Resto pretty much right away. We already have 8 ways to blink, that seems pretty good to me. I also agree lately P&K has been doing not a whole lot for me. What decks is this card supposed to shine against? I really pretty much never use it. It seems to slow most of the time. Am I just missing something with P&K?
Scooze vs Loaming Shaman?
Angel is currently the only out to artifacts/enchantments. I previously had a Rec Sage side or a Qasali Pridemage main.
I had a Sun Titan in before, and it was good, but I took it out for fear of too many big drops.
I like the 3/1 Saheeli/Kiki split over 4/0. After copying a Voice, I don't think I could take it out.
The removal SB package. I like the variety, do you guys particularly not like Condemn?
I'm completely in love with Dusk // Dawn. It has been beyond amazing for me.
So yeah, just getting another voice and list in the mix. Any and all ideas welcome.
Hi all, found this deck through HolyShamgar and heard from Lejoon in the chat there that there was a thread for this deck. Super! (Originally I was brewing all by myself with Renegade Rallier + Ghost Quarter which I found was a potent threat against many decks in Modern, and especially Tron which I've always found myself losing to. Then I saw this deck and figured the GQ-combo would fit perfect in here.)
I have been testing out the deck for a couple of days and while I'm still tweaking a bit I instantly found two cards that I absolutely love in this deck:
1 Phantasmal Image and 1 Venser, the Sojourner. This is the list I'm running (finished 4-1 last competitive MTGO-league, beat 2x Eldrazi Tron, Grixis Death's Shadow and BUG Delirium, lost to Merfolk):
Is the chord version of this deck discused here? im new to kiki builds, so im trying to get information about the archetype. Im running saheeli, felidar and oath, but no evolutions
What makes phantasmal image so great in your opinion? It's not a card you can blink or copy which is kind of the thing of this deck. Then again, maybe I'm overlooking something.
What Lejoon said + the fact that you can fetch it with all Eldritch Evolution-sacrifices and create a second copy of whatever good creature you have in play (or opponents Thought Knot-Seer or whatever)
How good is Lotus Cobra actually? I'm not running those because they seem so unreliable (not running 4 means they're seldom in your opener, and later they seem weak?).
No Renegade Ralliers? :/ Feels like one of the best cards in the deck (and actually what attracts me the most with this deck). Interesting that two of those decks only run 4 1cc-mana-dudes though, hmm.
Not a major tournament, but figured I should post here anyway: I won a 3 round Modern tournament at my local game store yesterday with the list below. 2-0 vs Bring to Light Scapeshift, 2-1 vs 8-Rack and 2-0 vs BUG Delirium. Sideboard was built with local meta in mind, I knew no one was on Storm for example (although Eidolon of Rhetoric would probably would have been useful vs Bring to Light and an Ad Nauseam player I dodged).
Yeah you would but the 1/3 body is not going to get much done by itself anyway and you'd still get to Anticipate
Wall of omens seems better. It costs less mana, helps us avoid fetching blue when an oath is down, and is better at blocking nacatls. Also doesn't just die when linked with felidar guardian...
Deck plays well, and seems super annoying for opponents to deal with. The main thing I was testing out, is completely dropping Wall, and replacing it with Finks. So far Kitchin Finks is a friggin house; gains life, hard to permanently kill, grinds out games, blocks for days, can be reset with Cat.
Between 4 Voice and 4 Finks, we can grind and grind.
I went up to 8 dorks do ensure 3 drops on t2, and 5 drops on t4, and to press the t3 combo as much as possible. It might be correct after more testing to lower the dork count. Something I flip flop on, but this is what i'm testing now, and it's felt good so far.
Thragtusk is surprisingly good in this deck. This card initially wasn't even on my radar, but after seeing it some other lists I said "F-it", and tried it. And wow. This dude in our shell is soo good. He's value on his own but when you start to blink it, it just gets silly. Gaining 5 life, and getting a 3/3 every blink is no joke.
As always, this deck has so much wiggle room. I feel like i've tested 10 different lists and had success with all of them. So hard to determine what's best.
-----------------------------------
I don't know why i'm so hesitant on Lotus Cobra. I really need to test it, but whenever I make a list I can never bring myself to fit it into the list.
Is Tireless Tracker really worth the slot? i've never played with the card so it's hard to see how good it could be.
---------------------------------
Opinions on the new Vizier Coco decks? They are doing a similar gameplan to us, threaten a t3 combo, and run a similar shell. Which deck is going to take off? Both of us? Or is their combo better? Do you think this deck is still worth developing? And finally, is that combo worth using in our own deck?
So have I gone totally mad in the lab?.... or am I onto something with this one?
Rhino would be such a crazy Copy/Blink target, and probably hands down the strongest thing you can Evo into. Which also solves the issue of not having a good 4 drop slot.
I put this together the other day, it is surprisingly tight. The leaks are super relevant. The only thing I am not super behind is the Moons, but I am also figuring out what is the best way to sideboard. Ive been using her updated list here: https://twitter.com/autumnoftheveil/status/863216801919979520
I'm struggling to understand why people are playing Restoration Angel at all? With 4 Cats, What is Resto doing for them? He also doesn't combo with Saheeli?
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Not just the Tendo King, the power of the Galactic Leyline surpasses that of the Tempa Emperor, No!, It's magnificent power is even greater than that!
Round 1: Played G1 against burn. First round he won me easily. G2 and G3 I landed first turn a leyline and about second turn a Kor firewalker. In game 2 also I landed a Eidolon of Rhetoric. I won both combing with Saheeli and Cat.
Won 2-1
Round 2: Played against Junk. First game he landed 2 Grim Flayer and finished me with a Siege Rhino. Game 2 and 3 I landed again a leyline, protecting me from discard. And again, comboing with Saheeli and Cat.
Won 2-1
Round 3: Played against affinity. Game 1 he landed a lot of T1 cards and a crane. Didn't had a path so he won. G2 I could combo before he could be more aggro. G3 I won this time with brute force with Voices and it's token. Pia helped me a lot with the tokens, that I could blink it with the cat.
Won 2-1
I liked how it went yesterday. I drew very well on each turn.
Hi all, long-time casual forum viewer, haven't posted in a while. I picked up a derivation of this deck recently (see: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=23158&iddeck=179414) and really enjoy it. Can someone explain why the more combo-oriented version of the deck (that runs, say, Wall of Omens) is so much more popular? Personally I find this version more powerful. It runs a strong mid-range plan by using a fuller set of Voice of Resurgence and Kitchen Finks instead of walling up with Wall of Omens and waiting/hoping to combo. By running a full playset of Birds of Paradise, along with Oath of Nissa of course it is surprisingly easy to cast the U/R cards such as Saheeli Rai, Nahiri the Harbinger, and/or Blood Moon. Having maindeck Blood Moon and Worship is big-time feelsgood since many decks have no way to handle those cards G1. Am I missing something here?
It's just different ways to build the deck depending on what meta you are entering. For example, I only play on MTGO, so there is a lot of eldrazi, DS, and affinity, so I play a deck that can threaten T3 combo, but also has the ability to play a more GWr mid-range approach if needed. The deck you posted is great for metas that allow a slightly slower, more controlling build, but I can see it having issues dealing with something like Affinity, Revolt Zoo, Grishoalbrand, and Burn. Also, there aren't a ton of pilots of this deck out there, so the testing is slow, the deck you posted could be closer to the "optimal build" we just don't know yet.
It's just different ways to build the deck depending on what meta you are entering. For example, I only play on MTGO, so there is a lot of eldrazi, DS, and affinity, so I play a deck that can threaten T3 combo, but also has the ability to play a more GWr mid-range approach if needed. The deck you posted is great for metas that allow a slightly slower, more controlling build, but I can see it having issues dealing with something like Affinity, Revolt Zoo, Grishoalbrand, and Burn. Also, there aren't a ton of pilots of this deck out there, so the testing is slow, the deck you posted could be closer to the "optimal build" we just don't know yet.
Thanks for the response. I was thinking the same thing - that it is a bit more controlly/midrange-y and thus a slower build - so I've been tweaking the deck to add better game against the decks you listed above. Specifically, I'm thinking 4 Kitchen Finks to help against Zoo and Burn, and then adding in Scavenging Ooze mainboard to also help shore up deficiencies against GY-based strategies (and just add general awesomeness). I really, really like the feel of the deck so far and think it has potential. Now I just need to get in some playtesting!
Snagged my first 5-0 in Competitive League with this one. Stubbornly holding on to Renegade Ralliers and Phantasmal Image finally paid off
2-0 vs UW Control
2-1 vs Jund All-In Death's Shadow (feat Monastery Swiftspear and Become Immense)
2-1 vs Abzan Vizier Company
2-1 vs Baral Storm
2-1 vs Merfolk
Never got to try the Fracturing Gusts or Burrenton Forge-Tender, but Gaddock Teeg is such a great card vs Company/Chord, Gifts Ungiven, Tron, ***, you-name-it. Will never have less than 2 of those in the sideboard. Also thinking about adding an extra Izzet Staticaster since it's such gas vs the creature matchups. Nihil Spellbomb was great vs Storm as expected - also triggers Revolt and can come back with Rallier. Activated it twice without black mana in one of the games I won. Oh, and Eidolon of Rhetoric helped in that matchup as well (duh)
Yeah I might even cut a dork and add a utility land. I've had a few games where a dork gets bolted, and I kept a 1-2 lander, and it didn't pan out well.. I had Gavony in earlier lists, but rarely used it. Still, maybe it's worth a slot. I might take a look at some other Utility lands that might be interesting too. Westvale Abbey is a pretty wild card. I have actually never seen that before.
Actually the control match is not all that bad. Voice gives them a lot of trouble, they can path it, but outside of that it's gonna be a Pain to deal with. With Rallier, you have a great value engine with Voice. Them alone can just win the game for you. But when the game goes long, what we have going for us, is that they need to hold on to disruption to stop a combo, but we are also chipping away with creatures. Tt gives them a lot to deal with, and we can usually grind them out pretty easily. I actually think control is pretty good MU.
Witness is definitely really good. I had her in earlier lists, and she made for some great plays. She might be better than the 3rd Rallier, but Rallier really does have such insane synergy with the deck, and I love the Voice, Rallier engine together. It can be really hard for the opponent to deal with. They use removal on Voice, and We get a token. Then We Rallier, and get Voice back. Now they need removal for Voice again, AND for the token, annnd for the Rallier if they don't want us to blink it.. If they do that, then they basically have no hand. We play another Rallier, or Voice, or blink Rallier for Voice again, etc, etc. It gets really annoying real quick.
Rallier also can ramp you with a fetchland, can be really effective dig with Oath of Nissa, Revive killed creature, Or bring back Evo fodder. It is a tough call though, and I admit Witness is very good.
A deck like this just has near endless configurations. It's so hard to nail down a set list.
I personally moved away from Resto pretty much right away. We already have 8 ways to blink, that seems pretty good to me. I also agree lately P&K has been doing not a whole lot for me. What decks is this card supposed to shine against? I really pretty much never use it. It seems to slow most of the time. Am I just missing something with P&K?
Current list that a friend and I have been on:
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Lotus Cobra
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Omens
2 Renegade Rallier
1 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
4 Felidar Guardian
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Angel of Sanctions
Spells
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Path to Exile
3 Eldritch Evolution
3 Saheeli Rai
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Temple Garden
2 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Razorverge Thicket
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Lone Missionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Condemn
1 Negate
2 Unified Will
3 Dusk // Dawn
Thoughts:
Scooze vs Loaming Shaman?
Angel is currently the only out to artifacts/enchantments. I previously had a Rec Sage side or a Qasali Pridemage main.
I had a Sun Titan in before, and it was good, but I took it out for fear of too many big drops.
I like the 3/1 Saheeli/Kiki split over 4/0. After copying a Voice, I don't think I could take it out.
The removal SB package. I like the variety, do you guys particularly not like Condemn?
I'm completely in love with Dusk // Dawn. It has been beyond amazing for me.
So yeah, just getting another voice and list in the mix. Any and all ideas welcome.
I have been testing out the deck for a couple of days and while I'm still tweaking a bit I instantly found two cards that I absolutely love in this deck:
1 Phantasmal Image and 1 Venser, the Sojourner. This is the list I'm running (finished 4-1 last competitive MTGO-league, beat 2x Eldrazi Tron, Grixis Death's Shadow and BUG Delirium, lost to Merfolk):
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
And how has Tamiyo performed?
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
2 Wall of Omens
1 Phantasmal Image
3 Renegade Rallier
1 Kitchen Finks
3 Felidar Guardian
1 Thragtusk
1 Angel of Sanctions
1 Reveillark
1 Sun Titan
4 Saheeli Rai
4 Oath of Nissa
3 Eldritch Evolution
3 Path to Exile
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Gavony Township
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Unified Will
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Dusk // Dawn
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Last card I can't remember
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen
Wall of omens seems better. It costs less mana, helps us avoid fetching blue when an oath is down, and is better at blocking nacatls. Also doesn't just die when linked with felidar guardian...
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Kitchen Finks
1 Reflector Mage
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Eternal Witness
1 Angel of Sanctions
1 Thragtusk
4 Felidar Guardian
4 Saheeli Rai
3 Oath of Nissa
3 Path to Exile
3 Eldritch Evolution
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Gavony Township
2 Stony Silence
2 Worship
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Linvala, keeper of Silence
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Caldera Hellion
Deck plays well, and seems super annoying for opponents to deal with. The main thing I was testing out, is completely dropping Wall, and replacing it with Finks. So far Kitchin Finks is a friggin house; gains life, hard to permanently kill, grinds out games, blocks for days, can be reset with Cat.
Between 4 Voice and 4 Finks, we can grind and grind.
I went up to 8 dorks do ensure 3 drops on t2, and 5 drops on t4, and to press the t3 combo as much as possible. It might be correct after more testing to lower the dork count. Something I flip flop on, but this is what i'm testing now, and it's felt good so far.
Thragtusk is surprisingly good in this deck. This card initially wasn't even on my radar, but after seeing it some other lists I said "F-it", and tried it. And wow. This dude in our shell is soo good. He's value on his own but when you start to blink it, it just gets silly. Gaining 5 life, and getting a 3/3 every blink is no joke.
As always, this deck has so much wiggle room. I feel like i've tested 10 different lists and had success with all of them. So hard to determine what's best.
-----------------------------------
I don't know why i'm so hesitant on Lotus Cobra. I really need to test it, but whenever I make a list I can never bring myself to fit it into the list.
Is Tireless Tracker really worth the slot? i've never played with the card so it's hard to see how good it could be.
---------------------------------
Opinions on the new Vizier Coco decks? They are doing a similar gameplan to us, threaten a t3 combo, and run a similar shell. Which deck is going to take off? Both of us? Or is their combo better? Do you think this deck is still worth developing? And finally, is that combo worth using in our own deck?
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Kitchen Finks
3 Siege Rhino
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Eternal Witness
1 Angel of Sanctions
4 Saheeli Rai
3 Oath of Nissa
3 Eldritch Evolution
2 Path to Exile
3 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Razorverge Thicket
2 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Breeding Pool
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Forest
1 Plains
So have I gone totally mad in the lab?.... or am I onto something with this one?
Rhino would be such a crazy Copy/Blink target, and probably hands down the strongest thing you can Evo into. Which also solves the issue of not having a good 4 drop slot.
I put this together the other day, it is surprisingly tight. The leaks are super relevant. The only thing I am not super behind is the Moons, but I am also figuring out what is the best way to sideboard. Ive been using her updated list here: https://twitter.com/autumnoftheveil/status/863216801919979520
Hmm.
I'm liking it a lot.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Voice of Resurgence
4 Felidar Guardian
2 Restoration Angel
2 Wall of Omens
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Blade Splicer
1 Eternal Witness
1 Renegade Rallier
1 Sun Titan
1 Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Qasali Pridemage
Planeswalkers
4 Saheeli Rai
1 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
Spells
3 Path to Exile
2 Eldritch Evolution
4 Oath of Nissa
Lands (22)
2 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothils
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstainer Mire
2 Temple Garden
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Raging Ravine
1 Spiring Vantage
1 Cinder Gale
1 Cooperline Gorge
3 Forest
3 Plains
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Rest in peace
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
Round 1: Played G1 against burn. First round he won me easily. G2 and G3 I landed first turn a leyline and about second turn a Kor firewalker. In game 2 also I landed a Eidolon of Rhetoric. I won both combing with Saheeli and Cat.
Won 2-1
Round 2: Played against Junk. First game he landed 2 Grim Flayer and finished me with a Siege Rhino. Game 2 and 3 I landed again a leyline, protecting me from discard. And again, comboing with Saheeli and Cat.
Won 2-1
Round 3: Played against affinity. Game 1 he landed a lot of T1 cards and a crane. Didn't had a path so he won. G2 I could combo before he could be more aggro. G3 I won this time with brute force with Voices and it's token. Pia helped me a lot with the tokens, that I could blink it with the cat.
Won 2-1
I liked how it went yesterday. I drew very well on each turn.
What decisions are odd to you? And why don't you like Resto?
It just gives more ways to value blink Mage, E-Witness, etc. Seems to fit the deck find even without Kiki-Jiki.
Thanks for the response. I was thinking the same thing - that it is a bit more controlly/midrange-y and thus a slower build - so I've been tweaking the deck to add better game against the decks you listed above. Specifically, I'm thinking 4 Kitchen Finks to help against Zoo and Burn, and then adding in Scavenging Ooze mainboard to also help shore up deficiencies against GY-based strategies (and just add general awesomeness). I really, really like the feel of the deck so far and think it has potential. Now I just need to get in some playtesting!
2-0 vs UW Control
2-1 vs Jund All-In Death's Shadow (feat Monastery Swiftspear and Become Immense)
2-1 vs Abzan Vizier Company
2-1 vs Baral Storm
2-1 vs Merfolk
Never got to try the Fracturing Gusts or Burrenton Forge-Tender, but Gaddock Teeg is such a great card vs Company/Chord, Gifts Ungiven, Tron, ***, you-name-it. Will never have less than 2 of those in the sideboard. Also thinking about adding an extra Izzet Staticaster since it's such gas vs the creature matchups. Nihil Spellbomb was great vs Storm as expected - also triggers Revolt and can come back with Rallier. Activated it twice without black mana in one of the games I won. Oh, and Eidolon of Rhetoric helped in that matchup as well (duh)
11-3-1 @ GP Copenhagen: Top Stories of Grand Prix Copenhagen