The deck is similar to play that Jund Death's Shadow version, but in this Sultai version the advantages is the powerfull of graveyard; This is the core of the deck. With the Snapcaster Mage and Traverse the ulvenwald has a perfect flashback/tutor to any card of the deck; removal (Fatal Push), creatures (Death's Shadow), disruption card (Thoughtseize), and counterspells (Stubborn Denial), includes lands (Ghost quarter)
Thanks a lot to "Don D" and "skullscorcher" to help and make the post nice; I am not have time to explain nothing about the deck. But they explain so nice how works.
They wrote up the beginnings of a primer, here's the section on the core cards plus the flex spots and basic sideboard options. Any comments are welcome. I'm add some details about any cards.
CARDS EXPLANATION
MAINBOARD
Land (18)
Forest (1)/Swamp (1): One of each of these basic lands is necessary for Traverse the Ulvenwald and being able to survive a Blood Moon.
Overgrown Tomb (2)/Watery Grave (2): The deck’s duals are split between green and blue, with green having one more source thanks to the basic Forest. Depending on your hand, either is a fine fetch target turn one, and it’s usually correct to always fetch for these untapped to feed Death's Shadow.
Verdant Catacombs (4)/Misty Rainforest (4)/Polluted Delta (4): Fetchlands are incredibly important to the deck’s ability to churn through both life and cards in the library, and using them correctly alongside Mishra’s Bauble and Street Wraith can take some practice.
Creatures (15-16)
Death's Shadow (4): It’s the card that defines the archetype. Because this deck has the same BG core of the popular Death’s Shadow Aggro deck, Mr. Shadow comes out fast, hard, and often in multiples thanks to Traverse the Ulvenwald. Your most aggressive draws will see large Death's Shadows by turn 2 or 3.
Tarmogoyf (4): Goyf is the other half of the Death’s Shadow Aggro threat package, and works just as well here thanks to the same synergy with Street Wraith and Mishra's Bauble. Comebined with early discard and removal, Goyf often hits the board as a 5/6, which conveniently steps in front of pretty much ever creature in the format quite nicely.
Street Wraith (3-4): The final creature from the Death’s Shadow Aggro build, Street Wraith is arguably the card in the deck with the most synergies: it lowers your life for Death's Shadow, gives you a functional Opt with Mishra's Bauble and a fetchland, feeds the graveyard for Goyf and Traverse the Ulvenwald, can provide unblockable damage in locked mirror matches, and, in combination with Bauble, allows you to run a 52 card deck.
Snapcaster Mage (3-4): Tiago is the main reason the deck splashes blue, and most builds will run a full playset. Tiago makes the deck incredibly consistent while giving it a very strong late game, and in games 2 and 3 he doubles the value of sideboard cards. He makes Thoughtseize-heavy draws even more oppressive and flashing back Fatal Push or Abrupt Decay leads to many blowout blocks.
Sorceries (10-12)
Thoughtseize (4): Another piece of the Death’s Shadow Aggro deck is the 8 discard spell suite, and the star is obviously Thoughtseize. Not much to say about how great this card is other than that Snapcaster Mage makes it even better.
Inquisition of Kozilek (2-4): If we could run four more Thoughtseize we would, but Inquisition of Kozilek is a close second.
Traverse the Ulvenwald (3-4): Another one mana superstar, Traverse the Ulvenwald is functionally Death's Shadow numbers 5-8 most games. Its ability to fetch out a basic land early on to smooth out a low mana draw and feed the graveyard is well documented, and this deck adds the ability to grab a Snapcaster Mage and flash back a game-winning removal spell.
Instants(6)
Fatal Push (4): The best removal spell in the format. In this deck, Fatal Push is often part of a game-winning Push-Snap-Push blowout block.
Abrupt Decay (1-2): Flexible removal that provides a maindeck answer to Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void on 1. Two are crucial, and some lists run three depending on the meta.
Artifacts (4)
Mishra's Bauble (4): Competitor for the card with the most synergies in the deck: it provides a scry with a fetchland (and an Opt with a Street Wraith), buffs Goyf and helps trigger Delirium for Traverse the Ulvenwald, gives you better than perfect information with your turn one Thoughtseize, and alongside Street Wraith allows you to run a 52 card deck.
Flex Spots (4)
Stubborn Denial (0-3): Another main reason to splash blue is countermagic, and Stubborn Denial is a functional one-mana Negate most of the time. Stubborn Denial shores up some of Death’s Shadow Aggro’s less-favorable matchups, namely Tron and combo. It also provides insurance during the crucial turn between playing a lethal Death's Shadow and swinging in with it.
Liliana, the Last Hope (0-2): The Eldritch Moon Liliana provides the deck with solid token removal and threat recursion, as well as an ultimate that gets activated with surprising frequency. Between her and Liliana of the Veil, you should run two planeswalkers to help Delirium and Goyf.
Liliana of the Veil (0-2): She’s the best planewalker in the format. Great for clearing out the last card in an opponent’s hand or taking out an evasive creature.
Maelstrom Pulse (0-1): Catchall removal is sometimes necessary in the maindeck, and it doesn’t get much better than Maelstrom Pulse, which has the incidental ability of mopping up pesky tokens with ease.
Thought Scour (0-4): The most controversial card in the deck. It has obvious synergies with a ton of cards, but is high risk given the low number of mana-producing lands, and finding an early opportunity to cast it while still applying pressure can be difficult. Over the deck’s short lifespan, many lists have run a full playset, while other have eschewed it entirely, and it has been largely squeezed out with the full adoption of the Death’s Shadow Aggro Traverse the Ulvenwald package alongside a full playset of Snapcaster Mage.
Vapor Snag (0-2): Is a good card to gain tempo and can be a momentanial removal to close the match.
Serum Vision (0-3): one of the reason to play blue, because at the mid/late game is a nice card.
SIDEBOARD
Stubborn Denial (1-4): Great against combo and Tron. Usually comes in for some number of Fatal Push and Abrupt Decay.
Surgical Extraction (0-2): Good against a wide range of decks, and even better with Snapcaster Mage.
Collective Brutality (1-2): Additional discard, removal, and a little bit of reach, you should never leave home without at least one Collective Bruality. Nice against Burn.
Golgari Charm (0-2): A nice bit of tech that combats a number of strategies, including the dreaded Lingering Souls. Its second mode most frequently targets Blood Moon and Spreading Seas.
Nature’s Claim (0-1): An even more efficient answer to Blood Moon as well as any artifact you may come across.
Liliana, the Last Hope (0-2)/Liliana of the Veil (0-2): Whichever Lili you aren’t running maindeck should go in your sideboard. Liliana, the Last Hope gives the deck some legs against Supreme Verdict, and Liliana of the Veil is good against combo and Eldrazi Tron.
Reclamation Sage (1): A Traverseable removal spell that only costs green in a must against decks running Blood Moon or Ensnaring Bridge.
Yixlid Jailer (0-1): A silver bullet against Dredge.
Fulminator Mage (0-1): A silver bullet against any land deck.
Nihil Spellbomb (0-2): Another piece of graveyard hate that feeds your graveyard and cantrips. Most sideboards run some sort of 2-1 split of these and Surgical Extraction.
Ghost Quarter (0-1): An alternative piece of Traverse-friendly land hate. free mana.(And can be inmediat than the Fulminator)
Bojuka Bog(0-1) asymetric gravehoser that doesn't take a spell slot and can be traversed.
Big Game Hunter (0-1) traversable removal for large creatures, a little too expensive, but if the meta has lots of eldrazi and death's shadow the card might be worth it.
Tooth Collector(0-1) traversable hate against decks going wide (elves, tokens, affinity), a little too expensive, but if the meta is heavy on such decks it's a great choice.
I want to make the full primer for this deck, I've been playing it for about a month on MODO and really enjoying it. I've been using a list similar to this one that won a small modern tournament in March. His list appears to be a meta call (lots of Ad Naus and control in his meta), so I swapped out some of the counter magic for discard, changed up the removal suite a tad, and ended up with this:
Overall the deck plays a lot like the Grixis Shadow list but with the superior creature and removal package of Jund. The deck's primary strength is its flexibility against the whole field: thanks to a diversity of threats and answers, the deck can play very aggressively or take a more controlling role before surging ahead in a couple of turns, and it has some decent grind to it thanks to Snapcasters, Creeping Tar Pit, Lilianas, and Tasigur's ability.
Thought Scour is quite good in this deck. Between Tarmogoyfs, Snapcasters, Liliana, the Last Hope, and Tasigur, you're almost always hitting value with your mills, and instant speed cantrips are quite strong in modern with all of the turn one discard going around. Stubborn Denial scales perfectly with Death's Shadow so that you can counter anything on curve during the first few turns and then have a hard counter to keep your Shadow or Goyf alive (Tasigur's 4 strength feels so good with this card).
Fatal Push plays great with ten fetchlands, and Dismember is best friends with Mr. Shadow. Maindeck Maelstrom Pulse comes in handy more often than you would think, and between Pulse and Liliana of the Veil you can answer pretty much any permanent in the format game one.
The deck is weak against Dredge, Elves, and Bant Eldrazi, and my sideboard is definitely tuned for those, plus Fulminator Mages, which, along with Surgical Extractions and discard, make for easy wins against a whole host of combo decks (as well as Death's Shadow Jund, all of whose threats can be eliminated with Extract-Snap-Extract). Golgari Charm does triple duty against Blood Moon, Spreading Seas, and spirit tokens.
Anyway, I think this deck has a fighting chance against most decks game one and solid sideboard options against the worst matchups. If Death's Shadow Jund catches a ban in the form of Bauble or Traverse, I expect this variant to see more play as players explore all of the other Death's Shadow variants; as it is, I think it will stay on the fringe, with most Sultai players going with Traverse control decks without Shadows.
What's the reason to not play mishra's bauble and traverse the ulvenwald? The "delirium package" played out realy well in my experience. The bauble cycles and enables early traverses and goyfs. The traverses help to keep a consistant supply of shadow/goyf/snap and puts snapcaster over the top, allowing him to not only supply removal and discard but also threats.
I've tried a version with Traverse but I don't have Baubles (I'll buy them after the B&R announcement Monday, not about to waste $100) so I'm sure it's not optimal. Depending on bans I'll test that version as well.
EDIT: Please post your Traverse/Baubles list, I want to know what you cut for them.
That's the list as far as I can remember. It plays the most effective spells, leaving out the counterspells (which is debatable). Will update it as soon as I'm back from holidays.
Thanks for posting that! Your list looks a lot like this BG list that splashed white for sideboard hate, which leads me to wonder if Bauble and Thought Scour need to be in the same deck...
I've been toying with a list that has 4 Liliana of the Veil and 2 Nihil Spellbomb alongside a couple of Snapcasters and 3 Traverse. I know Bauble is ideal but with Thought Scour how necessary is it? I feel like they kind of fulfill the same role and being able to mill Lili usually turns on Delirium, plus Spellbomb main comes in handy a lot. It slows down the deck by a turn but might make it more resilient? And sticking turn 3 Lili makes up for not having countermagic, as well as taking the edge off of drawing 1 cmc discard spells after the first few turns.
EDIT: Here's the main for that list I mentioned, having Traverse certainly makes running 18 lands feel better. You could probably cut Maelstrom Pulse for another Snapcaster Mage, but I hate to lose it main deck. All of the countermagic goes in the sideboard. This is basically the list I'll use when I get Baubles, just put them in over Spellbombs and 2 of the Lilianas.
(I know this isn't the place but I have a feeling Bauble will catch a ban on Monday. Death's Shadow Jund has a huge target on its back and banning Bauble will force innovation in other Shadow decks like how banning Eye of Ugin forced Eldrazi into other colors. Also, I think WotC straight-up missed Bauble when they banned Probe, because otherwise the format has no 0 cmc cantrips).
Bauble and thoughtscour are needed in lists with traverse to get delirium online starting from turn 2-3. Thoughtscour is the replacement for the tarfires (bad card is bad) from the jund shadow lists. It is debatable if thoughtscour could be switched to serum vision or stubborn denial, but i think the traverse/goyf/snappy interaction puts thoughtscour ahead in this specific deck.
Lotv is a card i desperately want to fit in the deck, but i don't find space for it without reducing the consistency of the deck.
Nihil spellbomb main deck is a no go for this deck imo. Mana efficiency/tempo is the central selling point of this deck and that card is nowhere close to deliger that prerequisite.
Re: Spellbomb, it's a budget/possible banlist call and obviously slows the deck way down. I'm just not convinced that Sultai Shadow wants to be as lightning fast as Death's Shadow Jund, which is why we might end up with something closer to the Grixis package with Stubborn Denial. I think the best build will have the power and consistency of Jund with the resilience/more controlling ability of Grixis.
With your list I would cut 2 Snapcasters for Liliana of the Veil, because Thought Scour works great with Lili and you'll be Traversing for Snapcasters a decent percentage of the time any with a full complement of Baubles.
Re: Spellbomb, it's a budget/possible banlist call and obviously slows the deck way down. I'm just not convinced that Sultai Shadow wants to be as lightning fast as Death's Shadow Jund, which is why we might end up with something closer to the Grixis package with Stubborn Denial. I think the best build will have the power and consistency of Jund with the resilience/more controlling ability of Grixis.
With your list I would cut 2 Snapcasters for Liliana of the Veil, because Thought Scour works great with Lili and you'll be Traversing for Snapcasters a decent percentage of the time any with a full complement of Baubles.
Thoughtscour does nothing with liliana of the veil. In fact, scour actually helps Snapcaster. I assume you meant liliana, the last hope? And honestly she doesn't need much help being powered up. Just using her to rebuy 1 or 2 killed threats is big.
I'm not going to be putting too much effort into this until after the ban announcement because I have a feeling shadow itself may get the ax, I hope I'm wrong.
Thoughtscour does nothing with liliana of the veil. In fact, scour actually helps Snapcaster. I assume you meant liliana, the last hope? And honestly she doesn't need much help being powered up. Just using her to rebuy 1 or 2 killed threats is big.
I'm not going to be putting too much effort into this until after the ban announcement because I have a feeling shadow itself may get the ax, I hope I'm wrong.
Sorry, I was referring to Thought Scour milling a Liliana into your own graveyard, which will usually turn on Delirium as you can count on having a land and sorcery in there from your first turn. It also has all of the other synergies you mentioned, but when running 4 Planeswalkers you will mill them with Scour a decent percentage of the time, or discard extra copies to itself to turn on Delirium.
I agree with your last point too...Monday can't come soon enough.
I've been toying around between this and the more delirium control BUG lists. I hope that decision doesn't get forced on me through bans.
I do like Liliana, the last hope here a lot though. Probably more than in other shadow variants even.
A thought; "jund" shadow splashes white for lingering souls. Seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea to try here as well? We say we want to be a better long game deck than DSJ but for that to be a sure thing I think we need souls also.
I like Souls when paired with Liliana of the Veil, and obviously white opens up the best sideboard options in the format. Liliana, the Last Hope is great in this deck as she plays nice with Snapcasters and late-game recursion of Death's Shadow (and Tasigur, if you go that route).
EDIT: Thinking more about Lingering Souls, I just don't think that it's needed when you have Snapcaster Mage, and especially Traverse into Snapcaster. Counterspells out of the sideboard do fair imitations of the white enchantment hosers, Leyline of the Void is better than Rest in Peace because it doesn't hose us as well, and Liliana, the Last Hope is great against any deck with their own spirit tokens. The list I linked in my first post included two Bitterblossom in the sideboard, which is what I would use if I was looking for a Lingering Souls effect. It can take over a game by itself, pings your health to grow your Shadows, can be taken out by Abrupt Decay in a pinch, and even does double duty for Tarmogoyf and Delirium.
4 Liliana of the Veil in the main deck increases both the number of great turn 3 plays and the quality of your top decks later in the game. She has strong synergy with Traverse the Ulvenwald, Tarmogoyf, and Thought Scour; not only does she enable discarding and help with delirium herself, but playing Traverse on turn 2 for a land to make sure you land Lili turn 3 is very strong when combined with all the 1 cmc discard and removal.
The goal is turn one discard spell into turn two discard/removal and Traverse or Thought Scour. Turn three opens up a host of possibilities, from Lili to playing a threat to Traverse for and playing threat to simply Snapcaster Mage back your used discard/removal. With Street Wraiths, fetches, and Thoughtseizes, you can often double discard and play a sizable Death's Shadow on turn two. In this way the deck plays a lot like the Jund variant, although it is half a turn slower and has more options starting on turn three thanks to Lilis and Snapcasters.
The sideboard, like all sideboards, needs work, but I'm married to the three Surgical Extractions, the second Maelstrom Pulse, and the three Golgari Charms. Golgari Charm does much-needed work against Blood Moon, various Leylines, and Spreading Seas, as well as spirit tokens and Elves. Surgical Extraction is the leading cause of concessions by combo players everywhere, as well as being excellent in the mirror.
The worst matchups are decks that mess with your lands, namely Merfolk and blue control running an 8 Seas package. I haven't played against Ponza but I can imagine that one being very top-deck dependent after the first few turns if you don't have your most aggressive hand. Go-wide decks like 8 Whack are also problematic, as sometimes one or even two discard spells aren't enough to slow them down, although they do have to kill you outright or often lose on the crack back. Snapcaster Mage is your best friend here, as combined with a removal spell from the graveyard he often takes out two attackers out of the blue. I haven't faced Dredge yet but obviously I can't imagine game one being too much fun.
This is my actual list, from which I'm going forward after the ban announcements on monday. The side board is a bit too cute on ulvenwald toolbox and can definitely be better streamlined towards a specific meta.
This is my actual list, from which I'm going forward after the ban announcements on monday. The side board is a bit too cute on ulvenwald toolbox and can definitely be better streamlined towards a specific meta.
If bauble gets hit by the banhammer on monday, Lotv will finally get a spot in my list.
I've considered adding a few toolbox cards to the sideboard, I erred on the side of spell consistency with mine since I'm gunning for a pretty limited number of specific decks/cards, but I love the idea of Traversing for Yixlid Jailer or Bojuka Bog. I recommend putting a Liliana, the Last Hope or two in your sideboard, she's a house against any deck that wants to trade resources in the early game and does work against Lingering Souls. Stubborn Denial is also crazy good out of the sideboard.
How has having four Snapcasters worked? I was running three but went down to two because drawing them in multiples always felt bad, while being able to search one up with Traverse was often game-winning. Same question with only 6 removal spells; I took out a Snapcaster for Go for the Throat and really like that higher density of spot-removal, although with four Lilis maindeck I'm guessing my plan is a little slower than yours.
I like a seventh mana-producing land with Thought Scour, just because milling one of them feels real bad if the game goes a little long. Might not be necessary in Bauble lists.
4 snapcaster along with 6 removal spells played great. With 12 cards that cycle, the deck basically plays 6/48 removal spells. Chances to see at least one are pretty good and then snapcaster flashes them back if they are needed. Snapcaster gives the deck a great way of card selection (along with traverse) and works incredibly well with all the cheap spells in the deck.
4 snapcaster along with 6 removal spells played great. With 12 cards that cycle, the deck basically plays 6/48 removal spells. Chances to see at least one are pretty good and then snapcaster flashes them back if they are needed. Snapcaster gives the deck a great way of card selection (along with traverse) and works incredibly well with all the cheap spells in the deck.
No bans, looks like I'm getting some Baubles and trying your version out!
@skullscorcher: i'm convinced you will love the baubles with traverse and goyf.
Don't have any work today so I've been jamming tournament practice MODO games for past couple hours. Played a couple rounds with Don D's list as well as one I brewed up below:
Mishra's Bauble is predictably amazing. One cool interaction I found was targeting my opponent with Bauble while having Thought Scour up and then milling their top card if it's good. It's a very skill-testing card and is just plain fun to play with. /oldnews
Don D's list is lightning-fast and super consistent, and with the sideboard from my list did very well against a Jeskai Control deck. Will try to take the list through a Friendly League this week and post a report.
@skullscorcher: i'm convinced you will love the baubles with traverse and goyf.
Don't have any work today so I've been jamming tournament practice MODO games for past couple hours. Played a couple rounds with Don D's list as well as one I brewed up below:
Mishra's Bauble is predictably amazing. One cool interaction I found was targeting my opponent with Bauble while having Thought Scour up and then milling their top card if it's good. It's a very skill-testing card and is just plain fun to play with. /oldnews
Don D's list is lightning-fast and super consistent, and with the sideboard from my list did very well against a Jeskai Control deck. Will try to take the list through a Friendly League this week and post a report.
i like that list. Besides some flex slots the main deck stands. I think it's time to start discussing the side board options for the different match-ups, so the sb can be adjusted to a expected meta.
Was also playing some more testing games online:
-Snapcaster did a lot of work! The flexibility to either get removal (push, decay), disruption (thoughtseize, Inquisition) or threats (traverse) is so good.
-Thought scour on the other hand was slightly underperforming. The problem was that there is often no spare mana available to cast it in the early turns and the spell becomes much less relevant in the late game when the mana would be available.
I had a similar experience, and I'm gonna test 3 Snapcaster/2 Thought Scour. I like having Thought Scour as fuel but with Baubles it might not be necessary.
As for the sideboard, I think 3 Surgical Extraction and 2 Liliana, the Last Hope should be the baseline. Surgical does so much work against combo, especially combined with Thoughtseize/IoK and Snapcaster, and has the added bonus of growing Shadow. Liliana, the Last Hope shores up grindy matches and pings Spirit tokens like a champ. I'm partial to Golgari Charm, as this deck is very weak to enchantments, but there are a ton of cards that do the same thing.
Surgical Extraction: Gifts Storm, Ad Naus, Dredge, Tron (especially with Thought Scour)
Liliana, the Last Hope: Abzan, Elves, U/W Control, Grixis Control, Jund
Golgari Charm: Ad Nauseum, Sun/Moon, Elves, anything that brings in Rest In Peace or Blood Moon
Just a starting place using my own experience.
EDIT: My Stubborn Denials come in against burn, combo (Tron/Scapeshift/Ad Nauseum, you want creature removal against Gifts Storm), and Grixis decks, but they're of limited use against U/W based control since Supreme Verdict is the card we most want to be countering.
-Snapcaster did a lot of work! The flexibility to either get removal (push, decay), disruption (thoughtseize, Inquisition) or threats (traverse) is so good.
-Thought scour on the other hand was slightly underperforming. The problem was that there is often no spare mana available to cast it in the early turns and the spell becomes much less relevant in the late game when the mana would be available.
So I think the solution here is to cut all the Thought Scours for the Lilis you've been trying to get main deck. When I played with my list above, Thought Scours were always the first things to go when sideboarding, and I wanted more Snapcaster Mages games 2 and 3 for my sideboard instants. After a little tuning I ended up dropping all of the Thought Scours for 3 Lilis and 1 more Abrupt Decay.
I want to update the primer, as this is a deck at least until the next B & R announcement (haha). So far here's the maindeck:
I was starting to collect potential side board cards. The list is by far not done yet and needs to be expanded, but I wanted to already post it as a starting point so we can finalize it together. So please comment on which potential SB can be added/substracted to/from the list for each match-up:
Potential side board options of Sultai Shadow against the most prevalent decks of the modern format (according to mtgtop8.com on April 25th 2017):
Jund Shadow (13%): Stubborn Denial, Big Game Hunter, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily1/2
Eldrazi (11%): Ceremonious Rejection, Big Game Hunter, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily 1/2
Burn (6%): Stubborn Denial, Collective Brutality, Courser of Kruphix
There are many other decks (Ad Nauseam, Elves, CoCo, Merfolk, Bogles, ...), but those are encountered rarely and should only be specifically adressed by the side board if the match-up is terrible or the expected meta has a overrepresentation of those decks compared to the overall top8 lists.
When the list of all potential options is finalized, we can start to condense it down to 15 cards (although specific meta adaptations are going to vary).
I was starting to collect potential side board cards. The list is by far not done yet and needs to be expanded, but I wanted to already post it as a starting point so we can finalize it together. So please comment on which potential SB can be added/substracted to/from the list for each match-up:
Potential side board options of Sultai Shadow against the most prevalent decks of the modern format (according to mtgtop8.com on April 25th 2017):
Jund Shadow (13%): Stubborn Denial, Big Game Hunter, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily1/2
Eldrazi (11%): Ceremonious Rejection, Big Game Hunter, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily 1/2
Burn (6%): Stubborn Denial, Collective Brutality, Courser of Kruphix
There are many other decks (Ad Nauseam, Elves, CoCo, Merfolk, Bogles, ...), but those are encountered rarely and should only be specifically adressed by the side board if the match-up is terrible or the expected meta has a overrepresentation of those decks compared to the overall top8 lists.
When the list of all potential options is finalized, we can start to condense it down to 15 cards (although specific meta adaptations are going to vary).
Just a quick note, I think Manglehorn is better than Reclamation Sage as tech against Infinity. They really pushed the 3cmc slot in Amonkhet.
Regarding Bojuka Bog, I'm a little skeptical about its efficacy against Dredge (which should probably be the number one sideboard target for graveyard hate given its metagame share and abysmal game 1 matchup). By the time I can play Bog (presumably on my turn 2 or 3 given the fact that it has to be Traversed for then played as a land drop) they have a field full of dudes, so I really want to be able to clear out their yard either permanently (Leyline of the Void feels like it turns this match into a buy) or at instant speed (Nihil Spellbomb just sits there like a one-sided Tormod's Crypt waiting for them to stack a bunch of triggers) on their turn 2 at the latest. Surgical Extraction seems great in a Leyline-less plan, especially because Surgical turn one into Snapcaster-Surgical turn 2 is a real play.
Does anyone have a Dredge deck online to test against?
INTRODUCTION
The deck is similar to play that Jund Death's Shadow version, but in this Sultai version the advantages is the powerfull of graveyard; This is the core of the deck. With the Snapcaster Mage and Traverse the ulvenwald has a perfect flashback/tutor to any card of the deck; removal (Fatal Push), creatures (Death's Shadow), disruption card (Thoughtseize), and counterspells (Stubborn Denial), includes lands (Ghost quarter)
DECKLIST
Version without Bauble and Traverse.
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
2 Watery Grave
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
Creatures (17)
4 Death's Shadow
3 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Grim Flayer
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Fatal Push
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Thought Scour
2 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (10)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
4 Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers (3)
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Forest
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
3 Spreading Seas
1 Ilness in the Ranks
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Golgari Charm
Version with Bauble and Traverse. "Similar likes JUND"
4 Mishra's Bauble
Creature (16)
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant (6)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Land (18)
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Thought Scour
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Stubborn Denial
Thanks a lot to "Don D" and "skullscorcher" to help and make the post nice; I am not have time to explain nothing about the deck. But they explain so nice how works.
They wrote up the beginnings of a primer, here's the section on the core cards plus the flex spots and basic sideboard options. Any comments are welcome. I'm add some details about any cards.
CARDS EXPLANATION
MAINBOARD
Land (18)
Forest (1)/Swamp (1): One of each of these basic lands is necessary for Traverse the Ulvenwald and being able to survive a Blood Moon.
Overgrown Tomb (2)/Watery Grave (2): The deck’s duals are split between green and blue, with green having one more source thanks to the basic Forest. Depending on your hand, either is a fine fetch target turn one, and it’s usually correct to always fetch for these untapped to feed Death's Shadow.
Verdant Catacombs (4)/Misty Rainforest (4)/Polluted Delta (4): Fetchlands are incredibly important to the deck’s ability to churn through both life and cards in the library, and using them correctly alongside Mishra’s Bauble and Street Wraith can take some practice.
Creatures (15-16)
Death's Shadow (4): It’s the card that defines the archetype. Because this deck has the same BG core of the popular Death’s Shadow Aggro deck, Mr. Shadow comes out fast, hard, and often in multiples thanks to Traverse the Ulvenwald. Your most aggressive draws will see large Death's Shadows by turn 2 or 3.
Tarmogoyf (4): Goyf is the other half of the Death’s Shadow Aggro threat package, and works just as well here thanks to the same synergy with Street Wraith and Mishra's Bauble. Comebined with early discard and removal, Goyf often hits the board as a 5/6, which conveniently steps in front of pretty much ever creature in the format quite nicely.
Street Wraith (3-4): The final creature from the Death’s Shadow Aggro build, Street Wraith is arguably the card in the deck with the most synergies: it lowers your life for Death's Shadow, gives you a functional Opt with Mishra's Bauble and a fetchland, feeds the graveyard for Goyf and Traverse the Ulvenwald, can provide unblockable damage in locked mirror matches, and, in combination with Bauble, allows you to run a 52 card deck.
Snapcaster Mage (3-4): Tiago is the main reason the deck splashes blue, and most builds will run a full playset. Tiago makes the deck incredibly consistent while giving it a very strong late game, and in games 2 and 3 he doubles the value of sideboard cards. He makes Thoughtseize-heavy draws even more oppressive and flashing back Fatal Push or Abrupt Decay leads to many blowout blocks.
Sorceries (10-12)
Thoughtseize (4): Another piece of the Death’s Shadow Aggro deck is the 8 discard spell suite, and the star is obviously Thoughtseize. Not much to say about how great this card is other than that Snapcaster Mage makes it even better.
Inquisition of Kozilek (2-4): If we could run four more Thoughtseize we would, but Inquisition of Kozilek is a close second.
Traverse the Ulvenwald (3-4): Another one mana superstar, Traverse the Ulvenwald is functionally Death's Shadow numbers 5-8 most games. Its ability to fetch out a basic land early on to smooth out a low mana draw and feed the graveyard is well documented, and this deck adds the ability to grab a Snapcaster Mage and flash back a game-winning removal spell.
Instants(6)
Fatal Push (4): The best removal spell in the format. In this deck, Fatal Push is often part of a game-winning Push-Snap-Push blowout block.
Abrupt Decay (1-2): Flexible removal that provides a maindeck answer to Blood Moon and Chalice of the Void on 1. Two are crucial, and some lists run three depending on the meta.
Artifacts (4)
Mishra's Bauble (4): Competitor for the card with the most synergies in the deck: it provides a scry with a fetchland (and an Opt with a Street Wraith), buffs Goyf and helps trigger Delirium for Traverse the Ulvenwald, gives you better than perfect information with your turn one Thoughtseize, and alongside Street Wraith allows you to run a 52 card deck.
Flex Spots (4)
Stubborn Denial (0-3): Another main reason to splash blue is countermagic, and Stubborn Denial is a functional one-mana Negate most of the time. Stubborn Denial shores up some of Death’s Shadow Aggro’s less-favorable matchups, namely Tron and combo. It also provides insurance during the crucial turn between playing a lethal Death's Shadow and swinging in with it.
Liliana, the Last Hope (0-2): The Eldritch Moon Liliana provides the deck with solid token removal and threat recursion, as well as an ultimate that gets activated with surprising frequency. Between her and Liliana of the Veil, you should run two planeswalkers to help Delirium and Goyf.
Liliana of the Veil (0-2): She’s the best planewalker in the format. Great for clearing out the last card in an opponent’s hand or taking out an evasive creature.
Maelstrom Pulse (0-1): Catchall removal is sometimes necessary in the maindeck, and it doesn’t get much better than Maelstrom Pulse, which has the incidental ability of mopping up pesky tokens with ease.
Thought Scour (0-4): The most controversial card in the deck. It has obvious synergies with a ton of cards, but is high risk given the low number of mana-producing lands, and finding an early opportunity to cast it while still applying pressure can be difficult. Over the deck’s short lifespan, many lists have run a full playset, while other have eschewed it entirely, and it has been largely squeezed out with the full adoption of the Death’s Shadow Aggro Traverse the Ulvenwald package alongside a full playset of Snapcaster Mage.
Vapor Snag (0-2): Is a good card to gain tempo and can be a momentanial removal to close the match.
Serum Vision (0-3): one of the reason to play blue, because at the mid/late game is a nice card.
SIDEBOARD
Stubborn Denial (1-4): Great against combo and Tron. Usually comes in for some number of Fatal Push and Abrupt Decay.
Ceremonious Rejection (0-2): Comes in against Tron, Eldrazi, and Affinity.
Surgical Extraction (0-2): Good against a wide range of decks, and even better with Snapcaster Mage.
Collective Brutality (1-2): Additional discard, removal, and a little bit of reach, you should never leave home without at least one Collective Bruality. Nice against Burn.
Golgari Charm (0-2): A nice bit of tech that combats a number of strategies, including the dreaded Lingering Souls. Its second mode most frequently targets Blood Moon and Spreading Seas.
Nature’s Claim (0-1): An even more efficient answer to Blood Moon as well as any artifact you may come across.
Liliana, the Last Hope (0-2)/Liliana of the Veil (0-2): Whichever Lili you aren’t running maindeck should go in your sideboard. Liliana, the Last Hope gives the deck some legs against Supreme Verdict, and Liliana of the Veil is good against combo and Eldrazi Tron.
Reclamation Sage (1): A Traverseable removal spell that only costs green in a must against decks running Blood Moon or Ensnaring Bridge.
Yixlid Jailer (0-1): A silver bullet against Dredge.
Fulminator Mage (0-1): A silver bullet against any land deck.
Nihil Spellbomb (0-2): Another piece of graveyard hate that feeds your graveyard and cantrips. Most sideboards run some sort of 2-1 split of these and Surgical Extraction.
Ghost Quarter (0-1): An alternative piece of Traverse-friendly land hate. free mana.(And can be inmediat than the Fulminator)
Bojuka Bog(0-1) asymetric gravehoser that doesn't take a spell slot and can be traversed.
Big Game Hunter (0-1) traversable removal for large creatures, a little too expensive, but if the meta has lots of eldrazi and death's shadow the card might be worth it.
Tooth Collector(0-1) traversable hate against decks going wide (elves, tokens, affinity), a little too expensive, but if the meta is heavy on such decks it's a great choice.
Rancor is a nice card if the meta has more tokens and no plays Traverse, the ulvenwald(lingering souls / young pyromancer / tokens decks) but i think that you want to trample the oponnents creatures is better Ilnes of the Rank: kills alls and do delirium too. other card to play if your list have Traverse is the Tooth Collector
Dispel (0-1) is great if you have lots of grixis control in your meta.
Maelstrom Pulse(0-1) is not only useful for the main but also for the side.
Vendillion Clique(0-1) if your meta has lots of ad nauseam and control.
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy (0-1)against grindy match ups. His looting is great for this deck. Just a little too slow for the main.
Spellskite (0-1) if burn is big in your meta.
Phyrexian Revoker(0-1) if Nahiri/superfriends is big in your meta.
SIDEBOARD GUIDE
I hope that among all complet this with experience of matchups.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/158OIUKw3rphCLGTPCyN3eOZQpS__a04PnCo9qNTFad8/edit?usp=sharing
MATCHUPS
TRICKS
Mishra's Bauble targeting a opponent + Thought Scour maybe to milling the top card [/spoiler]
[spoiler=]VS COMBO. (AD NAUSEAM/SCAPESIFHT/TRON)
Thought Scour targeting a opponent + Surgical Extraction can be "autowin"
Send me private message to upload the new info.
Sultai shadow seems well positioned in the actual meta. The deck plays the cheapest most powerful cards of the format.
To be continued...
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Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
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Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
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4 Death's Shadow
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Instant (15)
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Dismember
4 Fatal Push
2 Mana Leak
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
Planeswalker (2)
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Collective Brutality
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
Land (18)
1 Breeding Pool
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Countersquall
2 Dispel
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Go for the Throat
2 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Surgical Extraction
Overall the deck plays a lot like the Grixis Shadow list but with the superior creature and removal package of Jund. The deck's primary strength is its flexibility against the whole field: thanks to a diversity of threats and answers, the deck can play very aggressively or take a more controlling role before surging ahead in a couple of turns, and it has some decent grind to it thanks to Snapcasters, Creeping Tar Pit, Lilianas, and Tasigur's ability.
Thought Scour is quite good in this deck. Between Tarmogoyfs, Snapcasters, Liliana, the Last Hope, and Tasigur, you're almost always hitting value with your mills, and instant speed cantrips are quite strong in modern with all of the turn one discard going around. Stubborn Denial scales perfectly with Death's Shadow so that you can counter anything on curve during the first few turns and then have a hard counter to keep your Shadow or Goyf alive (Tasigur's 4 strength feels so good with this card).
Fatal Push plays great with ten fetchlands, and Dismember is best friends with Mr. Shadow. Maindeck Maelstrom Pulse comes in handy more often than you would think, and between Pulse and Liliana of the Veil you can answer pretty much any permanent in the format game one.
The deck is weak against Dredge, Elves, and Bant Eldrazi, and my sideboard is definitely tuned for those, plus Fulminator Mages, which, along with Surgical Extractions and discard, make for easy wins against a whole host of combo decks (as well as Death's Shadow Jund, all of whose threats can be eliminated with Extract-Snap-Extract). Golgari Charm does triple duty against Blood Moon, Spreading Seas, and spirit tokens.
Anyway, I think this deck has a fighting chance against most decks game one and solid sideboard options against the worst matchups. If Death's Shadow Jund catches a ban in the form of Bauble or Traverse, I expect this variant to see more play as players explore all of the other Death's Shadow variants; as it is, I think it will stay on the fringe, with most Sultai players going with Traverse control decks without Shadows.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
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Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
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EDIT: Please post your Traverse/Baubles list, I want to know what you cut for them.
4 death's shadow
4 tarmogoyf
4 snapcaster mage
4 street wraith
4 mishra's bauble
4 thoughtscour
4 traverse the ulvenwald
4 thoughtseize
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 fatal push
2 abrupt decay
12 fetch
2 watery grave
2 overgrown tomb
1 swamp
1 forest
I don't remember my exact sideboard. Update will follow...
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Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
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Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
I've been toying with a list that has 4 Liliana of the Veil and 2 Nihil Spellbomb alongside a couple of Snapcasters and 3 Traverse. I know Bauble is ideal but with Thought Scour how necessary is it? I feel like they kind of fulfill the same role and being able to mill Lili usually turns on Delirium, plus Spellbomb main comes in handy a lot. It slows down the deck by a turn but might make it more resilient? And sticking turn 3 Lili makes up for not having countermagic, as well as taking the edge off of drawing 1 cmc discard spells after the first few turns.
EDIT: Here's the main for that list I mentioned, having Traverse certainly makes running 18 lands feel better. You could probably cut Maelstrom Pulse for another Snapcaster Mage, but I hate to lose it main deck. All of the countermagic goes in the sideboard. This is basically the list I'll use when I get Baubles, just put them in over Spellbombs and 2 of the Lilianas.
2 Nihil Spellbomb
Creature (14)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant (10)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
4 Thought Scour
4 Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery (12)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
3 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Land (18)
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Watery Grave
(I know this isn't the place but I have a feeling Bauble will catch a ban on Monday. Death's Shadow Jund has a huge target on its back and banning Bauble will force innovation in other Shadow decks like how banning Eye of Ugin forced Eldrazi into other colors. Also, I think WotC straight-up missed Bauble when they banned Probe, because otherwise the format has no 0 cmc cantrips).
Lotv is a card i desperately want to fit in the deck, but i don't find space for it without reducing the consistency of the deck.
Nihil spellbomb main deck is a no go for this deck imo. Mana efficiency/tempo is the central selling point of this deck and that card is nowhere close to deliger that prerequisite.
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Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
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With your list I would cut 2 Snapcasters for Liliana of the Veil, because Thought Scour works great with Lili and you'll be Traversing for Snapcasters a decent percentage of the time any with a full complement of Baubles.
Thoughtscour does nothing with liliana of the veil. In fact, scour actually helps Snapcaster. I assume you meant liliana, the last hope? And honestly she doesn't need much help being powered up. Just using her to rebuy 1 or 2 killed threats is big.
I'm not going to be putting too much effort into this until after the ban announcement because I have a feeling shadow itself may get the ax, I hope I'm wrong.
Sorry, I was referring to Thought Scour milling a Liliana into your own graveyard, which will usually turn on Delirium as you can count on having a land and sorcery in there from your first turn. It also has all of the other synergies you mentioned, but when running 4 Planeswalkers you will mill them with Scour a decent percentage of the time, or discard extra copies to itself to turn on Delirium.
I agree with your last point too...Monday can't come soon enough.
I've been toying around between this and the more delirium control BUG lists. I hope that decision doesn't get forced on me through bans.
I do like Liliana, the last hope here a lot though. Probably more than in other shadow variants even.
A thought; "jund" shadow splashes white for lingering souls. Seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea to try here as well? We say we want to be a better long game deck than DSJ but for that to be a sure thing I think we need souls also.
I like Souls when paired with Liliana of the Veil, and obviously white opens up the best sideboard options in the format.Liliana, the Last Hope is great in this deck as she plays nice with Snapcasters and late-game recursion of Death's Shadow (and Tasigur, if you go that route).EDIT: Thinking more about Lingering Souls, I just don't think that it's needed when you have Snapcaster Mage, and especially Traverse into Snapcaster. Counterspells out of the sideboard do fair imitations of the white enchantment hosers, Leyline of the Void is better than Rest in Peace because it doesn't hose us as well, and Liliana, the Last Hope is great against any deck with their own spirit tokens. The list I linked in my first post included two Bitterblossom in the sideboard, which is what I would use if I was looking for a Lingering Souls effect. It can take over a game by itself, pings your health to grow your Shadows, can be taken out by Abrupt Decay in a pinch, and even does double duty for Tarmogoyf and Delirium.
4 Death's Shadow
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant (11)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
1 Go for the Throat
4 Thought Scour
Planeswalker (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery (13)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Marsh Flats
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Bitterblossom
3 Golgari Charm
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Liliana of the Veil in the main deck increases both the number of great turn 3 plays and the quality of your top decks later in the game. She has strong synergy with Traverse the Ulvenwald, Tarmogoyf, and Thought Scour; not only does she enable discarding and help with delirium herself, but playing Traverse on turn 2 for a land to make sure you land Lili turn 3 is very strong when combined with all the 1 cmc discard and removal.
The goal is turn one discard spell into turn two discard/removal and Traverse or Thought Scour. Turn three opens up a host of possibilities, from Lili to playing a threat to Traverse for and playing threat to simply Snapcaster Mage back your used discard/removal. With Street Wraiths, fetches, and Thoughtseizes, you can often double discard and play a sizable Death's Shadow on turn two. In this way the deck plays a lot like the Jund variant, although it is half a turn slower and has more options starting on turn three thanks to Lilis and Snapcasters.
The sideboard, like all sideboards, needs work, but I'm married to the three Surgical Extractions, the second Maelstrom Pulse, and the three Golgari Charms. Golgari Charm does much-needed work against Blood Moon, various Leylines, and Spreading Seas, as well as spirit tokens and Elves. Surgical Extraction is the leading cause of concessions by combo players everywhere, as well as being excellent in the mirror.
The worst matchups are decks that mess with your lands, namely Merfolk and blue control running an 8 Seas package. I haven't played against Ponza but I can imagine that one being very top-deck dependent after the first few turns if you don't have your most aggressive hand. Go-wide decks like 8 Whack are also problematic, as sometimes one or even two discard spells aren't enough to slow them down, although they do have to kill you outright or often lose on the crack back. Snapcaster Mage is your best friend here, as combined with a removal spell from the graveyard he often takes out two attackers out of the blue. I haven't faced Dredge yet but obviously I can't imagine game one being too much fun.
4 tarmogoyf
4 snapcaster mage
4 street wraith
4 mishra's bauble
4 thoughtscour
4 traverse the ulvenwald
4 thoughtseize
4 inquisition of kozilek
4 fatal push
2 abrupt decay
4 misty rainforest
4 polluted delta
4 verdant catacombs
2 watery grave
2 overgrown tomb
1 swamp
1 forest
2 collective brutality
1 big game hunter
1 reclamation sage
1 yixlid jailer
1 fulminator mage
1 vendillion clique
1 jace, vryn's prodigy
1 courser of kruphix
1 bojuka bog
1 phyrexian revoker
1 spellskite
1 tooth collector
If bauble gets hit by the banhammer on monday, Lotv will finally get a spot in my list.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
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Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
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I've considered adding a few toolbox cards to the sideboard, I erred on the side of spell consistency with mine since I'm gunning for a pretty limited number of specific decks/cards, but I love the idea of Traversing for Yixlid Jailer or Bojuka Bog. I recommend putting a Liliana, the Last Hope or two in your sideboard, she's a house against any deck that wants to trade resources in the early game and does work against Lingering Souls. Stubborn Denial is also crazy good out of the sideboard.
How has having four Snapcasters worked? I was running three but went down to two because drawing them in multiples always felt bad, while being able to search one up with Traverse was often game-winning. Same question with only 6 removal spells; I took out a Snapcaster for Go for the Throat and really like that higher density of spot-removal, although with four Lilis maindeck I'm guessing my plan is a little slower than yours.
I like a seventh mana-producing land with Thought Scour, just because milling one of them feels real bad if the game goes a little long. Might not be necessary in Bauble lists.
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Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
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Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
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No bans, looks like I'm getting some Baubles and trying your version out!
@skullscorcher: i'm convinced you will love the baubles with traverse and goyf.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
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Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
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Don't have any work today so I've been jamming tournament practice MODO games for past couple hours. Played a couple rounds with Don D's list as well as one I brewed up below:
4 Mishra's Bauble
Creature (14)
4 Death's Shadow
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant (9)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
3 Thought Scour
Planeswalker (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery (13)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Abrupt Decay
3 Golgari Charm
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
3 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Stubborn Denial
3 Surgical Extraction
Mishra's Bauble is predictably amazing. One cool interaction I found was targeting my opponent with Bauble while having Thought Scour up and then milling their top card if it's good. It's a very skill-testing card and is just plain fun to play with. /oldnews
Don D's list is lightning-fast and super consistent, and with the sideboard from my list did very well against a Jeskai Control deck. Will try to take the list through a Friendly League this week and post a report.
Was also playing some more testing games online:
-Snapcaster did a lot of work! The flexibility to either get removal (push, decay), disruption (thoughtseize, Inquisition) or threats (traverse) is so good.
-Thought scour on the other hand was slightly underperforming. The problem was that there is often no spare mana available to cast it in the early turns and the spell becomes much less relevant in the late game when the mana would be available.
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Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
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As for the sideboard, I think 3 Surgical Extraction and 2 Liliana, the Last Hope should be the baseline. Surgical does so much work against combo, especially combined with Thoughtseize/IoK and Snapcaster, and has the added bonus of growing Shadow. Liliana, the Last Hope shores up grindy matches and pings Spirit tokens like a champ. I'm partial to Golgari Charm, as this deck is very weak to enchantments, but there are a ton of cards that do the same thing.
Surgical Extraction: Gifts Storm, Ad Naus, Dredge, Tron (especially with Thought Scour)
Liliana, the Last Hope: Abzan, Elves, U/W Control, Grixis Control, Jund
Golgari Charm: Ad Nauseum, Sun/Moon, Elves, anything that brings in Rest In Peace or Blood Moon
Just a starting place using my own experience.
EDIT: My Stubborn Denials come in against burn, combo (Tron/Scapeshift/Ad Nauseum, you want creature removal against Gifts Storm), and Grixis decks, but they're of limited use against U/W based control since Supreme Verdict is the card we most want to be countering.
So I think the solution here is to cut all the Thought Scours for the Lilis you've been trying to get main deck. When I played with my list above, Thought Scours were always the first things to go when sideboarding, and I wanted more Snapcaster Mages games 2 and 3 for my sideboard instants. After a little tuning I ended up dropping all of the Thought Scours for 3 Lilis and 1 more Abrupt Decay.
I want to update the primer, as this is a deck at least until the next B & R announcement (haha). So far here's the maindeck:
4 Mishra's Bauble
Creature (16)
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Tarmogoyf
Instant (6)
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
Land (18)
1 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
1 Thought Scour
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Stubborn Denial
Potential side board options of Sultai Shadow against the most prevalent decks of the modern format (according to mtgtop8.com on April 25th 2017):
Jund Shadow (13%): Stubborn Denial, Big Game Hunter, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily1/2
Eldrazi (11%): Ceremonious Rejection, Big Game Hunter, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily 1/2
Burn (6%): Stubborn Denial, Collective Brutality, Courser of Kruphix
Affinity (5%): Ceremonious Rejection, Phyrexian Revoker, Reclamation Sage,
Tron (4%): Ceremonious Rejection, Stubborn Denial, Fulminator Mage, Phyrexian Revoker, Lily1
Dredge (4%): Bojuka Bog, Yixlid Jailer, Leyline, Surgical Extraction,
Valakut (4%): Collective Brutality, Vendillion Clique, Fulminator Mage, Surgical Extraction, Lily1
Junk BGW (4%): Tooth Collector, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily1/2
Hatebear (4%): Phyrexian Revoker, Tooth Collector, Lily1/2
Grixis control (3%): Dispel, Stubborn Denial, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily1/2
UW control (3%): Dispel, Stubborn Denial, Collective Brutality, Vendillion Clique, jace, vryn's prodigy, Lily1/2
Storm (3%): Dispel, Stubborn Denial, Collective Brutality, Vendillion Clique, Surgical Extraction, Lily1,
There are many other decks (Ad Nauseam, Elves, CoCo, Merfolk, Bogles, ...), but those are encountered rarely and should only be specifically adressed by the side board if the match-up is terrible or the expected meta has a overrepresentation of those decks compared to the overall top8 lists.
When the list of all potential options is finalized, we can start to condense it down to 15 cards (although specific meta adaptations are going to vary).
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
Just a quick note, I think Manglehorn is better than Reclamation Sage as tech against Infinity. They really pushed the 3cmc slot in Amonkhet.
Regarding Bojuka Bog, I'm a little skeptical about its efficacy against Dredge (which should probably be the number one sideboard target for graveyard hate given its metagame share and abysmal game 1 matchup). By the time I can play Bog (presumably on my turn 2 or 3 given the fact that it has to be Traversed for then played as a land drop) they have a field full of dudes, so I really want to be able to clear out their yard either permanently (Leyline of the Void feels like it turns this match into a buy) or at instant speed (Nihil Spellbomb just sits there like a one-sided Tormod's Crypt waiting for them to stack a bunch of triggers) on their turn 2 at the latest. Surgical Extraction seems great in a Leyline-less plan, especially because Surgical turn one into Snapcaster-Surgical turn 2 is a real play.
Does anyone have a Dredge deck online to test against?