Trying to make my deck Modern Legal. This is what I will have after the cards I just ordered Show up. Thoughts? I might swap out the two doom blades since they are useless against black decks. So if you have any thoughts on what i can put instead id appreciate it.
Please just use card tags for this forum. The way you posted, I would need to click on each card which takes me to another site (and away from this page) which makes responding more difficult. Quote my post here to see how I did this (and there is a stickied thread here that tells you how to use tags: Tag Explanations).
As to the question at hand, I would slot in a couple Fatal Push and maybe some fetchlands to make them better. Even with only hitting 2 CMC creatures, they are worth having at least 2.
As for Doom Blade I would agree that it is not very good. Go for the Throat hits almost every relevant creature and, if you face Affinity, you can just side them out for Dismember or more Fatal Push. Ultimate Price isn't bad either (though it also has a problem against Affinity).
Diabolic Tutor is often not what you want to do. It will occasionally be the card you need, but 4 mana to get an answer is very slow in Modern. I would cut it and just give yourself more threats/answers/card draw to draw into.
As for your threats, some are very expensive. You are rarely going to be able to cast Avatar of Woe for BB. I would actually suggest you move more towards a Devotion type build with Gray Merchant of Asphodel and maybe Geralf's Messenger.
Desecration Demon seems weak. I don't know what to put here, but it will either eat a removal spell or you will face a deck that can just sac a creature each turn to keep it tapped down. Maybe go with a lower to the ground approach with Gravecrawler (you would need more Zombies or Bloodghast.
Instead of Quag Sickness, just run Mutilate or Damnation. Corrupt seems unlikely to really make an impact in most games since it is high on the curve.
Please just use card tags for this forum. The way you posted, I would need to click on each card which takes me to another site (and away from this page) which makes responding more difficult. Quote my post here to see how I did this (and there is a stickied thread here that tells you how to use tags: Tag Explanations).
As to the question at hand, I would slot in a couple Fatal Push and maybe some fetchlands to make them better. Even with only hitting 2 CMC creatures, they are worth having at least 2.
As for Doom Blade I would agree that it is not very good. Go for the Throat hits almost every relevant creature and, if you face Affinity, you can just side them out for Dismember or more Fatal Push. Ultimate Price isn't bad either (though it also has a problem against Affinity).
Diabolic Tutor is often not what you want to do. It will occasionally be the card you need, but 4 mana to get an answer is very slow in Modern. I would cut it and just give yourself more threats/answers/card draw to draw into.
As for your threats, some are very expensive. You are rarely going to be able to cast Avatar of Woe for BB. I would actually suggest you move more towards a Devotion type build with Gray Merchant of Asphodel and maybe Geralf's Messenger.
Desecration Demon seems weak. I don't know what to put here, but it will either eat a removal spell or you will face a deck that can just sac a creature each turn to keep it tapped down. Maybe go with a lower to the ground approach with Gravecrawler (you would need more Zombies or Bloodghast.
Instead of Quag Sickness, just run Mutilate or Damnation. Corrupt seems unlikely to really make an impact in most games since it is high on the curve.
In test runs against friends iv been able to get Desecration Demon out pretty quickly since hes only 4, then he helps make Avatar of Woe only 2, And even if i dont have AoW in my hand he helps clear the board especially if i have a few out. I thought that was pretty decent for only 4 mana, no?
As far as Avatar of woe being expensive i agree, its really banking on me killing alot of the opponents creatures, maybe i can drop it from 3 copies to a single copy and throw in 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel since i already own a few?
Also wouldnt Mutilate be bad because it would wipe out my creatures as well? Seems counter productive to me. Maybe if i dont have anything on the board i could see it but if i have 6 mana on the board everything i have in my deck wouldn't survive that card.
In test runs against friends iv been able to get Desecration Demon out pretty quickly since hes only 4, then he helps make Avatar of Woe only 2, And even if i dont have AoW in my hand he helps clear the board especially if i have a few out. I thought that was pretty decent for only 4 mana, no?
I agree that it is not bad. I played it in INN-RTR Standard and do like the card. However, the problem is that the 4 drop slot has better options. As D90Dennis14 points out, Abyssal Persecutor is probably better as it can't be easily dealt with by sacrificing tokens or being chump blocked. Yes, it does require that you "waste" a removal spell on your creature, but its stats are so much better. I would lean more towards Phyrexian Obliterator in this slot though as it is much better and is relevant for devotion if you decide to move towards including more Gray Merchants and potentially Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx.
As far as Avatar of woe being expensive i agree, its really banking on me killing alot of the opponents creatures, maybe i can drop it from 3 copies to a single copy and throw in 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel since i already own a few?
Avatar as a one-of is probably fine, though I would honestly lean more towards something like Grave Titan as your curve topper if you really want something like that. If you do feel your removal suite is good enough, and your opponents are playing enough creatures to die, then Avatar of Woe might be better in your specific playgroup. In an unknown meta, you have to look at it as the worst case scenario and there it is an 8 mana 6/5 with Fear that can potentially kill a creature. 8 mana is really slow for Modern which is the reason for my suggestion that you cut it.
And yes, I would slot in at least 2 Gray Merchants and maybe more depending on any other modifications you make to the deck.
Also wouldnt Mutilate be bad because it would wipe out my creatures as well? Seems counter productive to me. Maybe if i dont have anything on the board i could see it but if i have 6 mana on the board everything i have in my deck wouldn't survive that card.
Yes, it wipes your board. But the main question is what scenarios do you feel that Quag Sickness is going to do anything relevant that a cheaper/better removal spell can't do? If you already have the board presence where you don't want to kill everything, is one opposing creature really a problem? If so, wouldn't it be better to just outright kill it rather than trying to get your Swamp count high enough to make it happen? For example, if you are facing an opposing Primeval Titan you need 6 Swamps for it to die and before that happens, you still need to deal with its attack trigger. Plus, you can only deal with it at Sorcery timing with Sickness. Instead, why not just play Go For the Throat or Murderous Cut and kill it outright for less mana and sooner in the game?
I do think you need to have some wraths in the deck though. Spot removal means you will get overrun by tokens or the "new" Humans deck. Having a couple copies of Mutilate or Damnation in the 75 means you have a way to get out of situations where an opponent has gone wide.
In test runs against friends iv been able to get Desecration Demon out pretty quickly since hes only 4, then he helps make Avatar of Woe only 2, And even if i dont have AoW in my hand he helps clear the board especially if i have a few out. I thought that was pretty decent for only 4 mana, no?
I agree that it is not bad. I played it in INN-RTR Standard and do like the card. However, the problem is that the 4 drop slot has better options. As D90Dennis14 points out, Abyssal Persecutor is probably better as it can't be easily dealt with by sacrificing tokens or being chump blocked. Yes, it does require that you "waste" a removal spell on your creature, but its stats are so much better. I would lean more towards Phyrexian Obliterator in this slot though as it is much better and is relevant for devotion if you decide to move towards including more Gray Merchants and potentially Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx.
As far as Avatar of woe being expensive i agree, its really banking on me killing alot of the opponents creatures, maybe i can drop it from 3 copies to a single copy and throw in 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel since i already own a few?
Avatar as a one-of is probably fine, though I would honestly lean more towards something like Grave Titan as your curve topper if you really want something like that. If you do feel your removal suite is good enough, and your opponents are playing enough creatures to die, then Avatar of Woe might be better in your specific playgroup. In an unknown meta, you have to look at it as the worst case scenario and there it is an 8 mana 6/5 with Fear that can potentially kill a creature. 8 mana is really slow for Modern which is the reason for my suggestion that you cut it.
And yes, I would slot in at least 2 Gray Merchants and maybe more depending on any other modifications you make to the deck.
Also wouldnt Mutilate be bad because it would wipe out my creatures as well? Seems counter productive to me. Maybe if i dont have anything on the board i could see it but if i have 6 mana on the board everything i have in my deck wouldn't survive that card.
Yes, it wipes your board. But the main question is what scenarios do you feel that Quag Sickness is going to do anything relevant that a cheaper/better removal spell can't do? If you already have the board presence where you don't want to kill everything, is one opposing creature really a problem? If so, wouldn't it be better to just outright kill it rather than trying to get your Swamp count high enough to make it happen? For example, if you are facing an opposing Primeval Titan you need 6 Swamps for it to die and before that happens, you still need to deal with its attack trigger. Plus, you can only deal with it at Sorcery timing with Sickness. Instead, why not just play Go For the Throat or Murderous Cut and kill it outright for less mana and sooner in the game?
I do think you need to have some wraths in the deck though. Spot removal means you will get overrun by tokens or the "new" Humans deck. Having a couple copies of Mutilate or Damnation in the 75 means you have a way to get out of situations where an opponent has gone wide.
What are you guys thoughts on Slaughter Pact? i was looking at it, and its nice to be able to play it even if i used all my mana up during my turn.
Ill read through that primer. Ill be without a computer for a while as i need to send my powersupply back to the manufacturer to be replaced, but by the time I get it back i should have new cards and will update the post for more feed back. Thanks for your help guys, i hope youll stick around for the updated deck.
There aren't many *Plainswalkers* to choose from and only Boggart Arsonists is Modern legal
If you wanted to include a Planeswalker, you could do worse than Ob Nixilis. However, that is more of a control card so it depends on how you want to build your deck. Gifted Aetherborn into Vampire Nighthawk into removal into Ob Nixilis into Gray Merchant can be pretty good. It would require a fair number of removal spells to make sure he doesn't just die right away but I think he is decent as a 1-of (maybe 2) as he is removal and card draw depending on what you need at the time.
If you go with Obliterator I would go the full 4 and I like Gearhulk in a lot of situations. Menace can be oddly relevant even that late in the game especially if you have a bunch of other removal to help out. Getting him back with Whip of Erebos (if you decide to keep it) can be pretty good too.
Slaughter Pact is alright, but the nonblack clause can be troublesome in some matchups. Death's Shadow decks specifically mean that Slaughter Pact is a dead card. Other removal spells that have been mentioned are probably better.
It is pretty much a worse Go For the Throat as there are few (mono) colored artifact creatures that see play.
I don't think that it has ever been good in Modern.
Lists back in the beginning use to play like 3 SB as it hit most targets very well. Only affinity, wurmcoil and then the random gold dude was safe, but with all the Eldrazi that has sprung up, not to mention Rhinos and the such, I don't think it's even SB material anymore. GftT is much better now... But still not that great. Push has pretty much made most black targeted removal obsolete.
(((Longbow should almost certainly be more than a 1 of in this deck.)))
Lists back in the beginning use to play like 3 SB as it hit most targets very well. Only affinity, wurmcoil and then the random gold dude was safe, but with all the Eldrazi that has sprung up, not to mention Rhinos and the such, I don't think it's even SB material anymore. GftT is much better now... But still not that great. Push has pretty much made most black targeted removal obsolete.
(((Longbow should almost certainly be more than a 1 of in this deck.)))
I am working on getting more copies of longbow with my next order of cards. When you say SB which card are you referring to tho?
I still don't like sickness with the demon. Seems like if you are only 1 or 2 swamps away from killing it they would just sac it instead of something else. Basically in that situation it's negative CA.
Pretty sure bone pickers play well with demon.if you wanted to play them then it could work along side it. You go to attacks they sac a dude. Post combat birds cost 1. Also has nice synergy with OBtrice. Or almost any creature equipped with a longbow.
So after talking with someone about the Deathtouch + Trample Combo rule, I was thinking of splashing green in my deck for trample. Do you think it would be better to focus on board wide enchantments or should i do Instants and auras so they dont get destroyed as easily?
24 Swamp
Spells
2 Corrupt
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Doom Blade
3 Quag Sickness
4 Ultimate Price
1 Viridian Longbow
1 Whip of Erebos
3 Avatar of Woe
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Grave Titan
4 Ruthless Ripper
1 Soulflayer
4 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Damnable Pact
1 Grim Return
1 Nightmare
1 Tree of Perdition
Here is your deck use the deck tag:
24 Swamp
//Spells
2 Corrupt
2 Diabolic Tutor
2 Doom Blade
3 Quag Sickness
4 Ultimate Price
1 Viridian Longbow
1 Whip of Erebos
3 Avatar of Woe
4 Desecration Demon
4 Gifted Aetherborn
1 Grave Titan
4 Ruthless Ripper
1 Soulflayer
4 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Butcher of Malakir
1 Crypt Ghast
1 Damnable Pact
1 Grim Return
1 Nightmare
1 Tree of Perdition
As to the question at hand, I would slot in a couple Fatal Push and maybe some fetchlands to make them better. Even with only hitting 2 CMC creatures, they are worth having at least 2.
As for Doom Blade I would agree that it is not very good. Go for the Throat hits almost every relevant creature and, if you face Affinity, you can just side them out for Dismember or more Fatal Push. Ultimate Price isn't bad either (though it also has a problem against Affinity).
Diabolic Tutor is often not what you want to do. It will occasionally be the card you need, but 4 mana to get an answer is very slow in Modern. I would cut it and just give yourself more threats/answers/card draw to draw into.
Speaking of card draw, you have very little (if any). Maybe Sign in Blood, Night's Whisper or Read the Bones would be alright.
As for your threats, some are very expensive. You are rarely going to be able to cast Avatar of Woe for BB. I would actually suggest you move more towards a Devotion type build with Gray Merchant of Asphodel and maybe Geralf's Messenger.
Desecration Demon seems weak. I don't know what to put here, but it will either eat a removal spell or you will face a deck that can just sac a creature each turn to keep it tapped down. Maybe go with a lower to the ground approach with Gravecrawler (you would need more Zombies or Bloodghast.
Instead of Quag Sickness, just run Mutilate or Damnation. Corrupt seems unlikely to really make an impact in most games since it is high on the curve.
In test runs against friends iv been able to get Desecration Demon out pretty quickly since hes only 4, then he helps make Avatar of Woe only 2, And even if i dont have AoW in my hand he helps clear the board especially if i have a few out. I thought that was pretty decent for only 4 mana, no?
As far as Avatar of woe being expensive i agree, its really banking on me killing alot of the opponents creatures, maybe i can drop it from 3 copies to a single copy and throw in 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel since i already own a few?
Also wouldnt Mutilate be bad because it would wipe out my creatures as well? Seems counter productive to me. Maybe if i dont have anything on the board i could see it but if i have 6 mana on the board everything i have in my deck wouldn't survive that card.
Some changes I's suggest making are replacing the situational/hard to cast cards like: Avatar of Woe (Grave Titan is better and more reliable),
Desecration Demon (Kalitas is better in a controling build and Abyssal Persecutor in a more aggrresive one, Phyrexian Obliterator is a bit of both)
and Corrupt (very inefficient fot its cost unlike the flexible Collective Brutality/Profane Command or even Noxious Gearhulk which can kill a creature and gain life while leaving a 5/4 menace in play).
A combination of: Victim of Night, Dismember, Go For the Throat and Fatal Push would be better than Doom Blade + Ultimate Price.
To cast your expensive spells easier you can add Nykthos to the deck.
A good card draw engine for the deck can be Phyrexian Arena or the more expensive (mana-wise) Bloodgift Demon or Ob Nixilis Reignited.
Avatar as a one-of is probably fine, though I would honestly lean more towards something like Grave Titan as your curve topper if you really want something like that. If you do feel your removal suite is good enough, and your opponents are playing enough creatures to die, then Avatar of Woe might be better in your specific playgroup. In an unknown meta, you have to look at it as the worst case scenario and there it is an 8 mana 6/5 with Fear that can potentially kill a creature. 8 mana is really slow for Modern which is the reason for my suggestion that you cut it.
And yes, I would slot in at least 2 Gray Merchants and maybe more depending on any other modifications you make to the deck.
Yes, it wipes your board. But the main question is what scenarios do you feel that Quag Sickness is going to do anything relevant that a cheaper/better removal spell can't do? If you already have the board presence where you don't want to kill everything, is one opposing creature really a problem? If so, wouldn't it be better to just outright kill it rather than trying to get your Swamp count high enough to make it happen? For example, if you are facing an opposing Primeval Titan you need 6 Swamps for it to die and before that happens, you still need to deal with its attack trigger. Plus, you can only deal with it at Sorcery timing with Sickness. Instead, why not just play Go For the Throat or Murderous Cut and kill it outright for less mana and sooner in the game?
I do think you need to have some wraths in the deck though. Spot removal means you will get overrun by tokens or the "new" Humans deck. Having a couple copies of Mutilate or Damnation in the 75 means you have a way to get out of situations where an opponent has gone wide.
I was actually looking at some of the cards you guys are mentioning last night. Specifically Victim of the night and Go For the Throat.
I do really like that Phyrexian Obliterator and Noxious Gearhulk Seems pretty awesome too. I was also thinking of getting a plainswalker, So do you think Ob Nixilis Reignited is the best route or do i have better options?
What are you guys thoughts on Slaughter Pact? i was looking at it, and its nice to be able to play it even if i used all my mana up during my turn.
Ill read through that primer. Ill be without a computer for a while as i need to send my powersupply back to the manufacturer to be replaced, but by the time I get it back i should have new cards and will update the post for more feed back. Thanks for your help guys, i hope youll stick around for the updated deck.
If you wanted to include a Planeswalker, you could do worse than Ob Nixilis. However, that is more of a control card so it depends on how you want to build your deck. Gifted Aetherborn into Vampire Nighthawk into removal into Ob Nixilis into Gray Merchant can be pretty good. It would require a fair number of removal spells to make sure he doesn't just die right away but I think he is decent as a 1-of (maybe 2) as he is removal and card draw depending on what you need at the time.
If you go with Obliterator I would go the full 4 and I like Gearhulk in a lot of situations. Menace can be oddly relevant even that late in the game especially if you have a bunch of other removal to help out. Getting him back with Whip of Erebos (if you decide to keep it) can be pretty good too.
Slaughter Pact is alright, but the nonblack clause can be troublesome in some matchups. Death's Shadow decks specifically mean that Slaughter Pact is a dead card. Other removal spells that have been mentioned are probably better.
I don't think that it has ever been good in Modern.
(((Longbow should almost certainly be more than a 1 of in this deck.)))
I am working on getting more copies of longbow with my next order of cards. When you say SB which card are you referring to tho?
2x Desecration Demon
4x Gifted Aetherborn
1x Grave Titan
2x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Ruthless Ripper
1x Soulflayer
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Viridian Longbow
1x Whip of Erebos
Instant:
4x Go for the Throat
Sorcery:
3x Mutilate
2x Quag Sickness
Mana:
24x Swamp
2x Desecration Demon
4x Gifted Aetherborn
1x Grave Titan
2x Gray Merchant of Asphodel
3x Phyrexian Obliterator
4x Ruthless Ripper
3x Vampire Nighthawk
3x Viridian Longbow
1x Whip of Erebos
Instant:
4x Fatal Push
2x Go for the Throat
Sorcery:
3x Damnation
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
16x Swamp
8x fetchlands
I'd be happier with this list I believe.
I don’t want to take out too much tho because the deck runs pretty good right now. I don’t wanna mess that up by adding a new color.