just in case anyone's thinking of running spot removal and discard - this would give your opponent lots of things to bring back with a living end.
your removal of choice should exile if possible. Path to Exile is probably the most suitable.
also, as this is a combo deck it would probably benefit the strategy to make the mana curve a bit leaner, maybe drop those Disallows for a mix of Spell Snare, Spell Pierce and maybe a single Dispel. this allows you to not only put the brakes on very fast aggressive strategies but it would allow you to protect your As Foretold very early in the game, or force it through an early counterspell. These cheaper pieces of interaction would also come online quicker as As Foretold picks up counters.
just a few thoughts.
So, what you're saying, is: "Don't use spells that put cards in the graveyard! Use spells that put cards in the graveyard, instead!"
Also, Disallow and, by extension, Nimble Obstructionist are important for their ability to get you around cards that shut your combo down, such as opponents' counterspells and Chalice of the Void.
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“Modern has provided us a non-rotating format that is far more accessible than Legacy or Vintage, but still retains many of the qualities that people enjoy in those formats—such as a more stable metagame, the ability to play and tweak the same deck week after week, and simply a much more powerful card pool than Standard.”
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
Tried the Blue Moon Living End version today that 1310hazzzard premiered this morning - it's a riot. Having 4 Simian Spirit Guide and 3 Blood Moon main deck hits tron matchups hard without hurting the mana base like Field of Ruin does. Simian Spirit Guide is also good for cheating out As Foretold early or an emergency extra counterspell. The current version uses a Madcap Experiment/Platinum Emperion sideboard package for aggressive decks, which is interesting, too.
Tried the Blue Moon Living End version today that 1310hazzzard premiered this morning - it's a riot. Having 4 Simian Spirit Guide and 3 Blood Moon main deck hits tron matchups hard without hurting the mana base like Field of Ruin does. Simian Spirit Guide is also good for cheating out As Foretold early or an emergency extra counterspell. The current version uses a Madcap Experiment/Platinum Emperion sideboard package for aggressive decks, which is interesting, too.
Maybe I'm missing something here, but what is the appeal of the Baral's Expertise?
I get that it can cast Living End and Ancestral Vision, but what are you aiming to bounce with it?
Creatures so they don’t hit the yard Incase you need to Le again. I don’t care for the ssg/moon package but I do like the sb package. Another idea (not sold on it at all) is wanderers/familiars early with looter scooter instead of some counterspells. This offers a little more aggro and still keeps some counter protection that recurs.
Rough draft of said version
Blood moon is pretty strong here, and most opponents don't expect the Madcap in the sideboard. So far my score is 7-3 in friendly and 8-4 in competitive leagues. It's still too early to tell if it's better version than the mono U. Currently I'm trying to fit a pact of Negation somewhere, still not sure what to cut. Baral's Expertise also look really interesting, but I'm really not sure what can be cut.
I like how you aren't playing with any Islands. Very bold.
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Modern
R/G Breach RG
Jund RGB
Tron RG
Lantern Control BGW
Mill UB
Legacy
Sneak & Show RU
Shardless BUG BUG
Colorless Eldrazi X
Additionally, I thought about the engineered explosives play. What's the plan on a resolved chalice at zero? You can't resolve an explosives in this case. I guess bouncing it with Cryptic is the only play?
So the idea is that you either drop in on 0 on the play before they get chalice down or later in the game you tutor up your Engineered Explosives and/or Ghost Quarter using Tolaria West and play EE for 1 generic mana, therefore it's cmc on the stack is 1 but it comes down with 0 counters because 0 'colors' of mana were spent to cast it. Then blow it up x=0.
Additionally, I thought about the engineered explosives play. What's the plan on a resolved chalice at zero? You can't resolve an explosives in this case. I guess bouncing it with Cryptic is the only play?
So the idea is that you either drop in on 0 on the play before they get chalice down or later in the game you tutor up your Engineered Explosives and/or Ghost Quarter using Tolaria West and play EE for 1 generic mana, therefore it's cmc on the stack is 1 but it comes down with 0 counters because 0 'colors' of mana were spent to cast it. Then blow it up x=0.
Yup ee On 0 is still great vs token strats too! So you can put it in 0-2 and that still hits a ton of things.
I get this problem from a lot of streamers and YouTube videos though. Could be an amazing player, but picks up a new deck and plays it badly on the vid. Saw this a lot with early deaths shadow decks and now here. It seems rarer to find a really powerful example of skill.
Good examples of worthwhile recent streams (just FYI):
Reid Duke on four colour deaths shadow
Gérard fabiano on temur midrange/control
Nikachu playing menfolk (almost any stream)
Who to avoid;
The tcgcardplayer guy - constantly misses and glosses over important decisions while playing on autopilot and over-thinks the wrong elements of a game
Anyway I'm not far off having the stuff I need for this deck. Wondering if a white splash is decent. Will take a gander and weigh up the options.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I saw in Hareuya´s page someone running one copy of Commandeer and i want to know your oppinion about this, because a feel that a 0 cost counterspell seems good in the t3 as foretold (i think about disrupting shoal too, but i dont try it yet)
Pretty sure hazzzard's most recent list runs 2 sideboard. It's a super powerful card but it comes at a steep cost. But you can totally blow someone out with it.
Just noting a few interesting green cards for this deck.
Beast Within lets you destroy any problem permanents at instant speed and furthers the mana denial angle. Then when you resolve Living End the beast tokens just disappear.
Bring to Light lets you search your library and cast Living End. It could also potentially help find 1-of sideboard cards (instant, sorcery, and creature).
Hey everyone!! I'm going to be streaming the UR version of the deck at twitch.tv/optimal_hunter if anyone is interested!! I've always been looking for a way to make the deck work and glad I stumbled upon this forum!
Just noting a few interesting green cards for this deck.
Beast Within lets you destroy any problem permanents at instant speed and furthers the mana denial angle. Then when you resolve Living End the beast tokens just disappear.
Bring to Light lets you search your library and cast Living End. It could also potentially help find 1-of sideboard cards (instant, sorcery, and creature).
Ive already put this exact version together. I haven't had a chance to play test it yet though.
The build has been performing very well, and I feel like with the extra cyclers there is more consistency with the central lines of play within the deck.
MVPs so far:
-SSG powering out blood moon or as foretold a turn early or allowing you to cycle an extra creature before as foretold+living end on t3.
-Nimble Obstructionist to deal with relic and oblivion stone
-Hurkyl's Recall to deal with Ensnaring bridge and multiple chalice on 0
-RIVER SERPENT; amazingly with fetchlands the drawback on the card has not as yet ever come up and having another four copies of a 1cmc cycler for 'U' in order to threaten aggro living end lines of play has been great. I have been boarding it out though in matchups where I suspect my opponent to be siding in relics to slowly eat my graveyard (eg. GB tron)
I'm not sure that SSG and Blood Moon improve the deck over more counters and Field of Ruin, it'll just add more dead cards to the deck as more copies of Blood Moon are rarely relevant and after the fist 3 turns SSG becomes rather useless as well.
Fulminator Mage seems like the better option for a Living End deck imho (though the RR cost is trickier).
If you want to add cyclers then Glassdust Hulk is an option without River Serpent's drawback (which can be a problem).
And in the U/R version there is Desert Cerodon as well.
A card I though about using in the Mono Blue version of the deck is Spontaneous Mutation as a SB card against fast aggro decks (instead of Dismember).
The deck fills the GY pretty quickly which makes this pretty much a 1-mana instant speed pseudo-Pacifism which sounds good and it doesn't put creatures in the GY that can come back after Living End is cast.
If you want to add cyclers then Glassdust Hulk is an option without River Serpent's drawback (which can be a problem).
And in the U/R version there is Desert Cerodon as well.
I tried Glassdust hulk while at the same time trying a few architects of will. First game I tested, post board I brought in the Madcap Experiment combo. Suffice to say I thought I was about to win the match when I ended up on -4 life and realized that I had artifact creatures in my deck. In the UR builds running the madcap combo in the side I think you have to stay away from them if you want to keep the maximum amount of cyclers in post board. Desert Cerodon would be great but I don't think the deck can sustain a red cycler, there are only 8 actual red lands and 4 simian spirit guides, and they are normally reserved for ramping as foretold or blood moon.
So far I've tried Mono U, Uw, Ub, and now Ur. Based on my limited testing I think the Ur has the most advantage in the current meta as blood moon and cryptic command seem very strong at the moment. That said, I'm certainly open to developments in the deck changing my mind.
^^
Would it be better than something like Engulf the Shore or Aetherize ?
These instants let you keep up mana for counters and don't need setup like Thing.
^^
Would it be better than something like Engulf the Shore or Aetherize ?
These instants let you keep up mana for counters and don't need setup like Thing.
Doesn’t thing do exactly that. Sit and let you play at instant speed while being able to chump. Humans likely still has you dead with aetherize sadly because it’ll often cost you 5cmc still and having to do it in combat step means they can deploy again second main. You could be right I just want something that can present a clock as well as defense.
I have been trying this deck online since Dev's decktech. Love that guy!
It's a blast to navigate and have proxied it up for some paper games tomorrow. It actually has game against most who don't expect it,
I'm very much in favor of adding Bojuka Bog. It's a turn3 emergency brake with Tolaria West against dredge and the like. Also because it doesn't use the stack after transmote has resolved, a well timed bog can hose any snapcaster control shananigans.
I have been trying this deck online since Dev's decktech. Love that guy!
It's a blast to navigate and have proxied it up for some paper games tomorrow. It actually has game against most who don't expect it,
I'm very much in favor of adding Bojuka Bog. It's a turn3 emergency brake with Tolaria West against dredge and the like. Also because it doesn't use the stack after transmote has resolved, a well timed bog can hose any snapcaster control shananigans.
Isn't it a triggered ability?
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
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Post board though tons of gy hate comes in making it worse than leak. Also you’d then what the full 4 rather than the 3 leak.
Also, Disallow and, by extension, Nimble Obstructionist are important for their ability to get you around cards that shut your combo down, such as opponents' counterspells and Chalice of the Void.
- Sam Stoddard, “Developing Modern” (June 21, 2013) (by means of Sheridan Lardner, "Fixing Modern: Defining Format Mission (March 16, 2016))
How to Use Spoiler Tags
Starting Over: The Origins of the Mulligan Rule
Practical Approach to Slow Play
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 2: SWARM and TOOLBOX
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 3
THE Guide to Aggro, Part 4
These videos are by MTG Salvation Moderator Lantern!
Introduction to Tempo
Controlling Tempo
Elements of Tempo
Roadblocks to Tempo
How Not To Build A Deck - Tempo
Learn How To Sideboard, Dammit!
Mulligan's Island
The Art of the Mulligan
The Art of the Mulligan: Eight Case Studies
Fundamentals: The Mulligan
Some Mulligan Exercises
A Mulligan Is Worth Three Cards
The Mulligan Debate
Common Sense: The Art of the Mulligan
Who's The Beatdown?
3 Caves of Koilos
3 Eldrazi Temple
2 Fetid Heath
3 Godless Shrine
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Plains
3 Shambling Vent
2 Tectonic Edge
Artifacts (4):
4 Æther Vial
4 Path to Exile
Creatures (29):
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Flickerwisp
4 Serra Avenger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Rest in Peace
3 Stony Silence
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Steam Vents
3 Sulfur Falls
Creatures (16):
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stormchaser Mage
2 Gut Shot
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mutagenic Growth
3 Spell Pierce
3 Twisted Image
3 Vapor Snag
Sorceries (8):
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Serum Visions
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Blood Moon
2 Dispel
1 Forked Bolt
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Repeal
2 Roast
1 Spell Snare
2 Spellskite
1 Vapor Snag
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Copperline Gorge
5 Mountain
3 Sacred Foundry
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (14):
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Atarka's Command
4 Boros Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
3 Searing Blaze
Sorceries (8):
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Destructive Revelry
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Path to Exile
2 Rending Volley
3 Skullcrack
19 Forest
3 Treetop Village
Creatures (24):
4 Avatar of the Resolute
4 Dryad Militant
2 Dungrove Elder
4 Experiment One
4 Leatherback Baloth
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Strangleroot Geist
4 Rancor
Instants (10):
3 Aspect of Hydra
4 Vines of Vastwood
3 Dismember
2 Choke
2 Gut Shot
2 Deglamer
2 Feed the Clan
2 Oxidize
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Skylasher
1 Unravel the Æther
Where's that updated list?
I get that it can cast Living End and Ancestral Vision, but what are you aiming to bounce with it?
Creatures so they don’t hit the yard Incase you need to Le again. I don’t care for the ssg/moon package but I do like the sb package. Another idea (not sold on it at all) is wanderers/familiars early with looter scooter instead of some counterspells. This offers a little more aggro and still keeps some counter protection that recurs.
Rough draft of said version
4 Smuggler's Copter
4 Striped Riverwinder
2 Archfiend of Ifnir
4 Curator of Mysteries
2 Judge's Familiar
4 Maelstrom Wanderer
2 Snapcaster Mage
Spells
4 As Foretold
3 Cryptic Command
4 Remand
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Living End
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
9 Island
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Tolaria West
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Bottle Gnomes
2 Disallow
1 Drake Haven
2 Hurkyl's Recall
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Leyline of the Void
2 Nimble Obstructionist
1 Tormod's Crypt
I like how you aren't playing with any Islands. Very bold.
R/G Breach RG
Jund RGB
Tron RG
Lantern Control BGW
Mill UB
Legacy
Sneak & Show RU
Shardless BUG BUG
Colorless Eldrazi X
And in what situations do you need the pact? Because of as foretold you can stay “tapped out” on your turn?
So the idea is that you either drop in on 0 on the play before they get chalice down or later in the game you tutor up your Engineered Explosives and/or Ghost Quarter using Tolaria West and play EE for 1 generic mana, therefore it's cmc on the stack is 1 but it comes down with 0 counters because 0 'colors' of mana were spent to cast it. Then blow it up x=0.
Yup ee On 0 is still great vs token strats too! So you can put it in 0-2 and that still hits a ton of things.
No offense to nassif but he plays terrible on stream. Hard to take a lot away from his streams a lot of times for me.
Good examples of worthwhile recent streams (just FYI):
Reid Duke on four colour deaths shadow
Gérard fabiano on temur midrange/control
Nikachu playing menfolk (almost any stream)
Who to avoid;
The tcgcardplayer guy - constantly misses and glosses over important decisions while playing on autopilot and over-thinks the wrong elements of a game
Anyway I'm not far off having the stuff I need for this deck. Wondering if a white splash is decent. Will take a gander and weigh up the options.
Pretty sure hazzzard's most recent list runs 2 sideboard. It's a super powerful card but it comes at a steep cost. But you can totally blow someone out with it.
Beast Within lets you destroy any problem permanents at instant speed and furthers the mana denial angle. Then when you resolve Living End the beast tokens just disappear.
Bring to Light lets you search your library and cast Living End. It could also potentially help find 1-of sideboard cards (instant, sorcery, and creature).
Ive already put this exact version together. I haven't had a chance to play test it yet though.
4 Tolaria West
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Steam Vents
1 Mountain
6 Island
Instant/Sorcery - 13
4 Living End
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
1 Disallow
4 Blood Moon
4 As Foretold
Creatures - 20
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
4 Street Wraith
4 River Serpent
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Dispel
3 Madcap Experiment
2 Platinum Emperion
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Nimble Obstructionist
I've cut some of the counterspells and lands to add the 4th blood moon and street wraith and a playset of river serpent, also switched out leyline of the void for Faerie Macabre (personal preference) and shaved from four pieces of gy hate to three in order to add another nimble obstructionist.
The build has been performing very well, and I feel like with the extra cyclers there is more consistency with the central lines of play within the deck.
MVPs so far:
-SSG powering out blood moon or as foretold a turn early or allowing you to cycle an extra creature before as foretold+living end on t3.
-Nimble Obstructionist to deal with relic and oblivion stone
-Hurkyl's Recall to deal with Ensnaring bridge and multiple chalice on 0
-RIVER SERPENT; amazingly with fetchlands the drawback on the card has not as yet ever come up and having another four copies of a 1cmc cycler for 'U' in order to threaten aggro living end lines of play has been great. I have been boarding it out though in matchups where I suspect my opponent to be siding in relics to slowly eat my graveyard (eg. GB tron)
Fulminator Mage seems like the better option for a Living End deck imho (though the RR cost is trickier).
If you want to add cyclers then Glassdust Hulk is an option without River Serpent's drawback (which can be a problem).
And in the U/R version there is Desert Cerodon as well.
A card I though about using in the Mono Blue version of the deck is Spontaneous Mutation as a SB card against fast aggro decks (instead of Dismember).
The deck fills the GY pretty quickly which makes this pretty much a 1-mana instant speed pseudo-Pacifism which sounds good and it doesn't put creatures in the GY that can come back after Living End is cast.
I tried Glassdust hulk while at the same time trying a few architects of will. First game I tested, post board I brought in the Madcap Experiment combo. Suffice to say I thought I was about to win the match when I ended up on -4 life and realized that I had artifact creatures in my deck. In the UR builds running the madcap combo in the side I think you have to stay away from them if you want to keep the maximum amount of cyclers in post board. Desert Cerodon would be great but I don't think the deck can sustain a red cycler, there are only 8 actual red lands and 4 simian spirit guides, and they are normally reserved for ramping as foretold or blood moon.
So far I've tried Mono U, Uw, Ub, and now Ur. Based on my limited testing I think the Ur has the most advantage in the current meta as blood moon and cryptic command seem very strong at the moment. That said, I'm certainly open to developments in the deck changing my mind.
4 Curator of Mysteries
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Street Wraith
4 Striped Riverwinder
Enchantment (5)
4 As Foretold
1 Search for Azcanta
Instant (12)
4 Cryptic Command
1 Disallow
3 Mana Leak
4 Remand
4 Ancestral Vision
1 Baral's Expertise
4 Living End
Land (20)
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
9 Island
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Tolaria West
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Bottle Gnomes
1 Disallow
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Nimble Obstructionist
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spellskite
4 Thing in the Ice
1 Tormod's Crypt
Would it be better than something like Engulf the Shore or Aetherize ?
These instants let you keep up mana for counters and don't need setup like Thing.
Doesn’t thing do exactly that. Sit and let you play at instant speed while being able to chump. Humans likely still has you dead with aetherize sadly because it’ll often cost you 5cmc still and having to do it in combat step means they can deploy again second main. You could be right I just want something that can present a clock as well as defense.
It's a blast to navigate and have proxied it up for some paper games tomorrow. It actually has game against most who don't expect it,
I'm very much in favor of adding Bojuka Bog. It's a turn3 emergency brake with Tolaria West against dredge and the like. Also because it doesn't use the stack after transmote has resolved, a well timed bog can hose any snapcaster control shananigans.
Modern: WUBRG Humans - GBW Traverse - GWU Knightfall - GRW Bushwhacker Zoo -
Isn't it a triggered ability?