Quick note about the primer, final deck list says Feb 7th 2018 rather than January.
Also how much do you think the cost of Chalice of the Void effects the viability of the deck?
You can deal with Chalice using Disallow and Ratched Bomb. It's hard, but it's not the end of the world.
Engineered explosives is better than both of those options if you have some way of generating colourless mana (allowing you to pay mana and overcome the restriction on Chalice while still keeping explosives on zero)
And it's tutorable with Tolaria West.
This by the way is one definite upside to playing some number of filter lands (at least one). This seemingly small interaction will come up nearly every time you play against a deck running Chalice.
While that's great knowledge and i believe engineered should atleast be in the side. It makes me sad thinking locally the only person who runs chalice runs it in their mono red prison blood moon deck
Quick note about the primer, final deck list says Feb 7th 2018 rather than January.
Also how much do you think the cost of Chalice of the Void effects the viability of the deck?
You can deal with Chalice using Disallow and Ratched Bomb. It's hard, but it's not the end of the world.
Engineered explosives is better than both of those options if you have some way of generating colourless mana (allowing you to pay mana and overcome the restriction on Chalice while still keeping explosives on zero)
And it's tutorable with Tolaria West.
This by the way is one definite upside to playing some number of filter lands (at least one). This seemingly small interaction will come up nearly every time you play against a deck running Chalice.
While that's great knowledge and i believe engineered should atleast be in the side. It makes me sad thinking locally the only person who runs chalice runs it in their mono red prison blood moon deck
I run 2 hurkyl's recall in the side. Does the job.
Also ceremonious rejection is a potential 1-of in the side.
I was considering running 1x detention sphere or echoing truth as well, for those irritating permanents that need to be gone.
Spell pierce is good against both cards if you can have an untapped blue source ready.
Don't forget if you're on the play against a deck running Chalice you can just drop explosives on zero on your first turn while also holding up interaction or a cycler.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
2) had some sort of epiphany in the night when I discovered my lost playset of Gifts Ungiven.
Suddenly I became acutely aware that a resolved gifts in this deck seems more powerful than in a lot of other decks. Could allow us to fetch up powerful singleton interaction, and also opens us up to potentially running a 1-of reanimation target (like iona or something).
I realise gifts + 1x reanimation target is starting to look cumbersome as a package in the maindeck and if you're thinking it might be a bit too much I'm thinking along the same lines, but after having thought it out some more, I reckon a version running gifts could probably shave a little on the top end of interaction (cryptic for example) in favour of a powerful midgame engine to shut whole decks down. A singleton noxious revival in the deck allows not only re-using your cyclers but building potential gifts piles with as foretold in it.
1) white splash and 3x path in the main
2) gone down to 3 remand (replaced it with a mana leak)
3) running a suite of one mana interaction to save us from early pressure and also speed up our clock in terms of planting an As Foretold with counter backup.
4) meddling mage in the side. This is a bit of secret tech I'm not too keen om sharing because surprise is the main factor, but 99% of decks and pilots will be siding out removal against us after game 1, and decks where meddling mage is good definitely won't be bringing it in for game 2 (storm, ad naus, random combo anything) so there's a huge free-win factor at work here and from some mild testing I can see it really works wonders. It works so well with how an opponent will be forced into sideboarding, and if we go to game three and they board back in removal, more fool them because you'll be rocking hexproof dudes and bringing stuff back over and over.
Other things of note; I valued hurkyl's recall over stony silence in a 2:1 split because of Chalice. They both have similar roles but j felt it was worth having at least one stony.
Ghostly prison; this is like the polar opposite of meddling mage. Bring it in against the swarm and creature decks and force them to either play threats or attack, not both. As a deck that wants to land a 3 mana enchantment this just gives us a higher density of 3-mana ways to impact the board and it's been very good so far. In multiples it's disgusting haha but one is enough for you to take over a game.
I feel like I've got combo, control, midrange and creature aggro covered fairly well. The tricky part is no leyline of sanctity so valakut decks will be tough.
I think the toughest matchup is probably humans. If that's really where we're at I'm happy with this build.
I'm gonna put up a gifts version later today.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Quick note about the primer, final deck list says Feb 7th 2018 rather than January.
Also how much do you think the cost of Chalice of the Void effects the viability of the deck?
You can deal with Chalice using Disallow and Ratched Bomb. It's hard, but it's not the end of the world.
Engineered explosives is better than both of those options if you have some way of generating colourless mana (allowing you to pay mana and overcome the restriction on Chalice while still keeping explosives on zero)
And it's tutorable with Tolaria West.
This by the way is one definite upside to playing some number of filter lands (at least one). This seemingly small interaction will come up nearly every time you play against a deck running Chalice.
Yeah, be tutorable is a big advantage. And you dont need to tap lands do cast it. But Ratched Bomb can destroy Liliana... Explosives just destroy CMC 2 in our deck. Anyway, i will test it!
I will ask again: what you guys think about Profaner of the dead? Im really liking this little guy.
The problem I see with adding black is that black is just going to put more creatures in their yard, which makes our LE worse when resolved. I think path to Exile is a more reasonable splash card. But I've only recently started testing the deck.
What would you guys say is the right call for playing Tolaria west as a land? Is keeping a 1-landerb with TW as my only other land a bad choice? What if I have some cyclers to dig?
What I don't like about formal splashes (calling them formal in contrast to the UB lands I play which are more meant as possible alternatives than an actual gameplan) is that you probably will need to trim Cryptics and Ghost Quarter/Field of Ruin, and I'm not ready to leave tron lands or Azcantas, or manlands live that easily. Manlands can be very annoying since Living End doesn't help us, so I find those lands very important.
I've been playing in my head with Gifts for a while, but couldn't find something that made me want to dedicate all those slots to it. I feel like getting 2 bombs in the yard is not needed, if I'm casting living end I'm usually ok, and if you pick more than 2 cards they get to choose which ones go to your hand, where you probably don't want them. I was just as excited when I thought about it initially, and have since dropped the idea. Hopefully you'll find something I missed!
Ghostly Prison is great against Humans, if only we had the original card, Propaganda!
I haven't played these days, but will definitely try the evoke creatures I mentioned (AEthersnipe and Shriekmaw, maybe Mulldrifter). Shriekmaw deals with the creature it killed again when they both return, and AEthersnipe can bounce stuff as a creature (no spell pierce or negate) and then again when it returns, seems potentially very powerful.
A weird card I would love to try but will probably never have time is Quicken. It cantrips, so it's not that bad ever, and it has the potential to abuse As Foretold with Visions/Living end on their turn as well. At worst, you just "cycle" it for another card for U if needed.
End of their turn Living end and swing for the win is the one thing I've always felt the traditional Living End had over us.
Edit: Profaner of the dead would work better against smaller creature decks, so I guess it could be decent in the sideboard for those matchups? 4 mana seems a heavy cost anyway, is it fast enough for you? And requires to tap out, not die before the trigger, and only bounces creatures with <3 toughness (I assume you'll be sacking him to his ability) Let me know if I'm missing something cool it does, I don't feel like it's worth it at first sight.
Quick note about the primer, final deck list says Feb 7th 2018 rather than January.
Also how much do you think the cost of Chalice of the Void effects the viability of the deck?
You can deal with Chalice using Disallow and Ratched Bomb. It's hard, but it's not the end of the world.
Engineered explosives is better than both of those options if you have some way of generating colourless mana (allowing you to pay mana and overcome the restriction on Chalice while still keeping explosives on zero)
And it's tutorable with Tolaria West.
This by the way is one definite upside to playing some number of filter lands (at least one). This seemingly small interaction will come up nearly every time you play against a deck running Chalice.
Yeah, be tutorable is a big advantage. And you dont need to tap lands do cast it. But Ratched Bomb can destroy Liliana... Explosives just destroy CMC 2 in our deck. Anyway, i will test it!
I will ask again: what you guys think about Profaner of the dead? Im really liking this little guy.
I just realized that Explosives doesn't work against Chalice for zero. If you cast Explosives for zero it will be countered. So, Ratched is better!!
Quick note about the primer, final deck list says Feb 7th 2018 rather than January.
Also how much do you think the cost of Chalice of the Void effects the viability of the deck?
You can deal with Chalice using Disallow and Ratched Bomb. It's hard, but it's not the end of the world.
Engineered explosives is better than both of those options if you have some way of generating colourless mana (allowing you to pay mana and overcome the restriction on Chalice while still keeping explosives on zero)
And it's tutorable with Tolaria West.
This by the way is one definite upside to playing some number of filter lands (at least one). This seemingly small interaction will come up nearly every time you play against a deck running Chalice.
Yeah, be tutorable is a big advantage. And you dont need to tap lands do cast it. But Ratched Bomb can destroy Liliana... Explosives just destroy CMC 2 in our deck. Anyway, i will test it!
I will ask again: what you guys think about Profaner of the dead? Im really liking this little guy.
I just realized that Explosives doesn't work against Chalice for zero. If you cast Explosives for zero it will be countered. So, Ratched is better!!
I literally explained the interaction with sunburst, colourless mana and Chalice in the comment you quoted haha.
Anyway 0_0
Played a bunch of matches last night & did well (didn't lose a match) but learnt a few things.
1) I needed to be able to cast Street wraith (or at least the option to...) so i'm going to add a watery grave to my list to add to the Bojuka bog as black sources. For a low opportunity cost it's a worthwhile option to have.
2) maindeck tutorable explosives was amazing. Everyone needs to run one, just like amulet Bloom used to (the only other deck that has played Tolaria West to any success).
3) the suite of spells I've been running for interaction are superior to the old clunky 3-mana stuff people were trying to parse before. Cones online earlier and interacts when you need to against fast decks.
4) path to Exile was amazing as well.
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
Just not sure about the 2 Spell Pierce in sideboard. Sometimes I prefer Tormods Crypt, or Hurkyl's Recall, or Nimble Obstructionist. Im really confused about that 2 less spots. I used to play big championships and i try to use the most usefull cards for the big modern field.
Just not sure about the 2 Spell Pierce in sideboard. Sometimes I prefer Tormods Crypt, or Hurkyl's Recall, or Nimble Obstructionist. Im really confused about that 2 less spots. I used to play big championships and i try to use the most usefull cards for the big modern field.
I'd say for sure that your suite of interaction is far too top-heavy on mana cost. When nearly half of it costs 3 and 4 mana and none of it costs less that two, I'm not sure exactly how you hope to survive on the draw against decks that can win by turn three. Definitely wrong, needs some tweaking. This is modern after all, and modern demands super fast interaction if you're playing the sort of game where you drop some kind of combo on or around turn 3/4/5 ish.
Other slight nitpick with this list is not maxing out on living end. We want to hit this card (and as foretold) as consistently as possible by turn three every single game. Dropping any will definitely result in some % of games being lost against fast aggro-ish decks where you couldn't find a living end.
Spontaneous mutation is fun. I like the concept. Having played a few chunks of matches against different decks though I can see one glaring issue; the matches where you most need removal are the ones where you struggle to fill your yard and filter through your deck. In these situations (where the removal is the thing that saves you) unfortunately I can't see mutation doing much. Running fetches certainly helps and I think it's actually a decent option in terms of playable fringe tech, but I think it needs some serious testing before I'll put any in my deck for a competitive tournament over (say) path to Exile which is easily splashable and fairly unconditional. However I get why you're running it for sure and I'd say keep testing the card if you like it. Just make sure to be really honest to yourself whether path would just be better in the situations you cast mutation. Like when you're on your second living end of the game and that creature you originally cast mutation on is coming back from the yard, would path have been better? Carefully consider it and we'll all learn and improve from your efforts and testing with a new card.
And finally bud you've got some definite weird jank in your sideboard that I'm honestly not sure benefits you over the amazing hate cards available to us. Stuffy doll? The arbiter at least I can see some fringe value but then what about (for example) ghostly prison which comes down a turn earlier and is harder to remove, and works well in concert with living end allowing you to attack while keeping them stalled. If you can't stomach a white splash I can see the arbiter doing something at least haha.
No graveyard hate or artifact hate in the side? Feels a bit weird :S
Just not sure about the 2 Spell Pierce in sideboard. Sometimes I prefer Tormods Crypt, or Hurkyl's Recall, or Nimble Obstructionist. Im really confused about that 2 less spots. I used to play big championships and i try to use the most usefull cards for the big modern field.
I'd say for sure that your suite of interaction is far too top-heavy on mana cost. When nearly half of it costs 3 and 4 mana and none of it costs less that two, I'm not sure exactly how you hope to survive on the draw against decks that can win by turn three. Definitely wrong, needs some tweaking. This is modern after all, and modern demands super fast interaction if you're playing the sort of game where you drop some kind of combo on or around turn 3/4/5 ish.
Other slight nitpick with this list is not maxing out on living end. We want to hit this card (and as foretold) as consistently as possible by turn three every single game. Dropping any will definitely result in some % of games being lost against fast aggro-ish decks where you couldn't find a living end.
Spontaneous mutation is fun. I like the concept. Having played a few chunks of matches against different decks though I can see one glaring issue; the matches where you most need removal are the ones where you struggle to fill your yard and filter through your deck. In these situations (where the removal is the thing that saves you) unfortunately I can't see mutation doing much. Running fetches certainly helps and I think it's actually a decent option in terms of playable fringe tech, but I think it needs some serious testing before I'll put any in my deck for a competitive tournament over (say) path to Exile which is easily splashable and fairly unconditional. However I get why you're running it for sure and I'd say keep testing the card if you like it. Just make sure to be really honest to yourself whether path would just be better in the situations you cast mutation. Like when you're on your second living end of the game and that creature you originally cast mutation on is coming back from the yard, would path have been better? Carefully consider it and we'll all learn and improve from your efforts and testing with a new card.
And finally bud you've got some definite weird jank in your sideboard that I'm honestly not sure benefits you over the amazing hate cards available to us. Stuffy doll? The arbiter at least I can see some fringe value but then what about (for example) ghostly prison which comes down a turn earlier and is harder to remove, and works well in concert with living end allowing you to attack while keeping them stalled. If you can't stomach a white splash I can see the arbiter doing something at least haha.
No graveyard hate or artifact hate in the side? Feels a bit weird :S
+1 spell pierce
+1 dispel
+2 Spell snare
+1 living end
And sideboard:
-2 stuffy doll
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 pithing needle
+2 hurkyl's recall
+3 leyline of the void
Man, Stuffy Doll is GG against DS. And its a good blocker if combined with Silent against aggro decks. CMC 5 is hard, I know, but you need to know that you have a control deck.
Dont you prefer Tomord's Crypts instead Leyline of the void? Its tutorable by Tolaria.
I agree that Path is better than Mutation, but I prefer the Mono Blue list. I already tested splashing to other colors and the deck became very weak against Trons, cause you need to take out the Field of Ruin. I'm using 4 Polluted Delta just to filter and to work with Mutation, its not a real splash. Mutation is doing his job for now and I will keep it.
You said "you need to know you have a control deck"
Without any real one mana interaction, and with a top-heavy counter suite and fairly situational "removal" I'd say I know exactly what I've got and it isn't a control deck. It's a combo deck that hopes to luck into the midgame rather than have a decent plan to get there.
On shadow:
Death's Shadow is a fast deck. That's why it has replaced jund as the best "midrange" deck in the format. A turn 1 thoughtseize followed by turn 2-3 shadow isn't that unlikely, and they tend to play either version of liliana *maindeck* to remove stuffy doll (and they'll be doing so at a distinct mana advantage over you- 3 mana for your 5, plus additional effects). Recognising that you're running slow 3 and 4 mana interaction a savvy shadow player will keep in their top end in game 2 because it wrecks you. Also they play 8 discard spells and stubborn denial so good luck landing an as foretold or any 3 mana spell before they kill you. This is why stuff like dispel and spell pierce are decent in the maindeck. Multi-purpose. Can protect your combo from turn 4+ (whereas Disallow would be turn 6+) and also smashes stuff like collected company, burn spells, removal, storm spells, ad nauseum etc.
Another consideration is that shadow generally plays 2 ish temur battle rage to speed up their clock against decks which are slow to interact or don't pack much interaction, and that card stops stuffy doll from doing anything besides making the shadow slightly bigger and killing you quicker.
When they have *maindeck* ways of making your sideboard tech (which costs 5 mana!) look stupid, I'd say maybe have a rethink.
I mean you've got the core of the deck there and the core is powerful. You'll probably do pretty well. I'm intrigued to see how you do with mutation as a card so let us know. Genuinely though, drop your curve with your interaction spells and you'll see your win % improve across modern matchups.
Re; leyline vs tormod's crypt... I'm not sure. I have Bojuka bog which is tutorable and so far I've liked having leyline out of the sideboard as a harder 'nope' against dredge, reanimator, storm and so forth. I don't know which is correct honestly, so I'll try both. Certainly either could be right depending on the meta.
Have fun testing. Be honest with your results. Look forward to hearing what you've come up with
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I agree that 1 mana counterspells is what we need.
Spell Snare is wonderful, and Pierce puts in a lot of work. I keep Dispel in the sideboard, but it is an all star when it comes in.
I've tried 2x Quicken for a couple of games, and it seemed pretty decent. I cycled it a couple of times with mana left at the end of turn, but I also managed to use it to draw 3 at their EOT and to cast living end, untap and kill them (that game was brutal, he was about to swing for lethal, I tap-draw, quicken, Living End and then swing for the kill in my turn :P). I still can't tell if I'll keep it, but it is not awful, and can bring value.
I disagree on the deck being combo. I've grinded a ton of games without a huge Living End and swinging for the kill. And lost games after casting Living End t3 or t4, the "combo" doesn't guarantee anything, it's not a combo really, just a powerful play, like drawing 3 from Visions.
There are some games when everything goes right and you end up playing the "combo" and killing early, but most games for me go long, playing a clear control role until I can turn the tables and go for the kill.
I'll leave the cards I want to test here just in case somebody is looking for ideas and has more time to test them, I can play a lot less than I wished these days:
Shriekmaw AEthersnipe Quicken Horribly Awry Reality Shift
For those playing fetches, either Perplex or Drift of Phantasms and a Crucible of Worlds. It's just an easy to assemble combo, transmute allows grabbing the crucible, and Crucible + Fetches or Ghost Quarter is a powerhouse, blowing up every land they have or never missing a land drop. The transmute can also grab As Foretold, so that's extra consistency there as well.
Agreed. This should be played like a control deck. Just has a combo finish that is very strong. Plays cards (cycles) for better value whike setting up the game breaking play.
But leylines are a weird thing, some people like them, some don't (I don't). They take a lot of sideboard space if you want them to be reliable, since they are usually dead draws after the initial hand. I much prefer other more versatile cards, like collective brutality against burn (all 3 modes are very relevant, gaining life, getting a burn spell from their hand and killing a creature all in 1 is just brutal for them)
We already run and use 4 Ancestral Visions to fight discard, we shouldn't worry about it much. I think most concern about discard comes from viewing the deck as combo, and thinking that if they take your As Foretold or your Living End you've lost. We draw a ton of cards, we shouldn't care about discard that much.
As for leyline of the void, I much prefer Tormod's Crypt which we can tutor if needed, and/or Faerie Macabre that can trim their graveyard from pesky cards while being a body when brought back.
It's a matter of personal choice in the end, nobody will deny the power of either leyline t0, I just don't like the "gamble" aspect of them.
I'm trying 2x Search for Azcanta now, and have trimmed 1 Living End, since I frequently found myself with extra copies of it. We can tutor one if needed, so having 4 seemed too much. Search feels great, doing a lot of the things we want to be doing.
I understand your point about the potential useless-ness of Leylines. To help mitigate this the list I am putting together is running a single Sunken Ruins and Mystic Gate. This makes the deck able to cast the Leylines if they are drawn in sideboard matches, and the lands can be tutored up with Tolaria West.
Search is an amazing card for the deck, and I definitely think running the 2 of them is correct. I also personally like some number of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. When he flips, with As Foretold you're able to flashback copies of Living End and Ancestral, which is all kinds of stupid lol.
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Yes, but even if castable, their power level drops enormously, making them poor choices. I mean, you at the earliest will cast them t4, and that would require tapping out! Most likely you'll need to tranmute for the filter land, and then cast the leyline, taking 2 full turns tapped out. Even then, leyline of the void doesn't deal with whatever is already in the graveyard, and sanctity has already missed all the discard spells and likely dead against burn.
Chalice of the Void is what I'd try in their place if you want something powerful. Neither at 1 nor 2 hurts our gameplan much, since we only have countermagic there. It is tutorable, and can shut down a lot of cards in multiple decks. I feel it could be very good, but don't know what to take out for it, Torpor Orb is the candidate, but it has been great in the Humans and Jeskai matchups, as well as Eldrazi Tron.
Alright. I think this deck isn't degenerate enough yet. I agree that it works well as a control deck with a combo finish. But I'm interested in exploring options for making it more combo-centric.
The times you get to cycle 2-3 creatures in the first two turns, and cast As Foretold on curve (i.e. turn 3) AND Living End on the same turn DO feel degenerate. We'll call that the Optimal Line. (Yes, with the current incarnation of the deck you don't always want or need to do that, even given the choice. I understand this, it's irrelevant to the exploration of the deck being more combo-centric because we're assuming we want to combo ASAP. This is all a thought experiment, put on your combo hats please.)
Either the deck needs to speed up the Optimal Line by a full turn, or greatly increase the consistency of hitting it on turn 3.
Options for speeding up the Optimal Line (turn 3 As Foretold + Living End with creatures in the yard):
* Turn 1 Utopia Sprawl on a Forest. This gets us to As Foretold on turn 2. It can be cast when As Foretold has one counter on it, in which case it's pure ramp, because it doesn't have summoning sickness. It also doesn't die to Living End, and can help colour fix for a third colour.
* Birds of Paradise. It dies to removal and your own Living End. But it is a speedbump that can very seldom buy a turn. It also colour-fixes for a potential third colour.
* Simian Spirit Guide. This is played in Jund Living End for extra speed. It also gives them a creature they can hard-cast, so they have a Demonic Dread target versus a non-creature deck. We don't have that requirement. He does create the opportunity for turn 1 Remand or Search for Azcanta however, which Utopia Sprawl does not.
Let me know if you have any more options for speeding up the As Foretold -> Living End turn, which is constrained by mana. Hitting 3 mana on turn 2 seems especially important because it allows you to spend that turn casting As Foretold OR transmuting Tolaria West/Drift of Phantasms.
Options for making the Optimal Line more probable:
* Faithless Looting. It essentially halves the cycling cost for the 1 mana cyclers. And it also helps you dig for whichever piece of the combo you need. If there was an additional synergy with Faithless Looting, such as enabling Delirium (which we don't need) or Delve (which we can't use effectively), then it would be a resounding success. As it stands, it feels bad, honestly, because we don't have a high enough density of cyclers. So it's often "draw two, discard a land and Remand".
* Commune with the Gods. Turn 2 play or turn 1 with SSG. It can find As Foretold but not Living End. Fills the yard for Living End and Search for Azcanta.
Then there are a bunch of cards that don't fit our criteria for various reasons. Nagging Thoughts doesn't dig deep enough. Strategic Planning is not bad, but it's either this or Remand. Glimpse the Future is too slow + a sorcery. Forbidden Alchemy is an instant, but too expensive for our explicit purpose of getting the turn 3 As Foretold + Living End.
Another angle for increasing consistency is adding redundant ways of casting Living End. This can be achieved two ways in Modern that are fast enough for our purposes.
* Cascade cards, such as Demonic Dread (making the deck Grixis), Ardent Plea (making it UW), or Violent Outburst (making it Temur). The trouble is that you have to cut Remand and anything else with cmc <= 2. That may or may not include Ancestral Vision.
* Kari Zev's Expertise. This is likely a sideboard card. Sram's Expertise and Yahenni's Expertise cost 1 more than Kari Zev's, and are not terrible cards in their own right, but don't fit the goal of turn 3 As Foretold -> Living End.
* (The third way that I can think of is Bring to Light, but that's very slow at 5 mana. I'd be interested in hearing about more, besides Hideaway lands.)
So, given all these approaches, what are some directions that could be fruitful?
Personally the UR direction with Simian Spirit Guide and Kari Zev's Expertise sounds promising. Unfortunately Faithless Looting doesn't work with either Demonic Dread or Violent Outburst, but I think removing Remand to make the cascaders work seems like a decent angle of attack.
Another nice benefit of turn 1 Utopia Sprawl or BoP is that you get access to turn 2 Beast Within, Fulminator Mage (Temur), OR play + activate Field of Ruin and use your new untapped basic land to cycle. So it ramps up the mana denial angle of the deck substantially. BoP also gives you another target for Kari Zev's Expertise, if needed.
I'd love to hear any thoughts you have about moving in the combo direction. Based on the assumption that combo is what we want to do, how can we do the most degenerate s*** possible?
I saw a UR version that looked fun.
Since you run discard effects like Faithless looting, you can use big nasty creatures with no cycling and toss them that way, so the Living Ends become a lot more powerful. I think it was MagicAIDS that run it.
However, I believe that path (focusing on combo) leads you to traditional Living End, and you'll soon want to drop As Foretold and just use Cascade to cast it, it can be done Instant speed so you can swing in your turn, it is just better as a combo.
Another interesting resource I found, platinum pro player Eduardo Sajgalik (Walaoumpa) made a series of videos playing different decks during January, here is the one for mono U Living End: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZikBSUDfGHU
I'm happy to see him suggest several of the things I've been trying, and agree that the deck is still in version 1.0, but has great potential.
so i am really interested in this deck. been testing on cockatrice quite a bit. have to say the power level is obviously very strong, but i feel it is so dependent on as foretold that if we don't draw it we are sol. could something like drift of phantasms be the answer to more consistently find asf?
any advice would be great. im still pretty new to the deck, but at least i am catching my misplays and starting to correct them. when i played modern i piloted lantern control and i can say for sure that this deck is as hard if not more so to pilot. it is, however extremely powerful and super fun to play.
played a few more games just now and really noticed the power of the leylines. in multiple games i mulled to four just to find a leyline and ended up winning. not saying you can't win with out them in the match-ups that you board them in, but if you doubt your hand at all i think you should mull in hopes of getting a pay off leyline.
also, i noticed that against decks with heavy discard, but also packing graveyard value, we can just bring in tormod's crypt and leave out leyline of the void. bojuka bog can pull tons of weight. i even cryptic command bounced a bojuka bog against jund just to land the game winning living end.
either way the more i play this deck the more i am convinced it could be a powerhouse. i think it just needs the fine tuning of a mtgsalvation primer to come up with the most consistent build.
p.s. screwing your opponent's draws with architects is so satisfying
lastly and i hate to rant; i did actually win a game without casting as foretold or living end so it is possible.
I feel you could use more 1 mana counterspells, maybe dumping some creatures?
Less interaction makes it more necessary to find As Foretold + Living End faster, while a bit more interaction plays more controlish and gives you plenty of time (I rarely cast As Foretold t3, unless I somehow have no permission in hand)
I've put some games in these days, here's what I got:
Search for Azcanta has been very good at helping find whatever I needed, with the scry first, and once it flips it's just insane! It's earned it spot (2x) for now at least.
I have also found that just flashing in Nimble Obstructionist at their EOT and then devoting to countering their threats/keeping them from Tron is a nice strategy against Tron decks. Didn't even bother with Living ends, always transmuted for either Field Of Ruin/Ghost Quarter or Ancestral Visions. Wurmcoil makes Living End awkward, plus they might just drop Chalice on 0 and wreck your plans, and you stop worrying about Relic, so this works very nicely.
Nimble Obstructionist is also such a surprise a ton of times! Countering relic sacs, oblivion stones, sneaking a living end through a chalice of the void, I also countered the annihilator 6 from Emrakul once and could win on the crack back.
3 Mana is intensive, but I prefer him over Supreme Will or Disallow.
I'm also very happy having cut Living End to 3 copies.
The missing piece IMO is the sideboard tech to win aggro matchups. Spell Snare helps and that's why I run 3, but it's frequently not enough.
I have run into very little Burn/Humans lately, a lot of Tron and Control, plus that Mardu Pyromancer and Hollow one decks.
I have yet to play against Counters Company! Or 8 rack (I suspect that one will be very much in our favor), Infect or Bogles... I only played Dredge once... Modern is just so vast nowadays that the matchups are really a lottery, and it's impossible to plan for all of them.
Chalice of the void is the complement to Engineered Explosives I will try, but I fear it might be too slow unless it's in the opening hand. Also only have paper copies, and I'm not planning on spending that much for the online ones, so testing it won't be easy.
I've put together the RU version with Hollow Ones and Dragonlords for a fun switch up. It's not as competitive as the Mono-U version, but it has its own amusement factors. I am hoping to get some thoughts on what kind of transitional SB to run. I am not in love with the Aggro sideboard that Magic Aids is running. Right now I have 3 Kiki-Jiki, 4 Exarchs, 2 Pestermites, 4 Spirit Guides and 2 Dispels. The alternatives that come to mind off the top of my head with be Breach/Emrakul or Platinum Emperion combo.
I figure I'll have some fun with this for a week, then go back to control.
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While that's great knowledge and i believe engineered should atleast be in the side. It makes me sad thinking locally the only person who runs chalice runs it in their mono red prison blood moon deck
I run 2 hurkyl's recall in the side. Does the job.
Also ceremonious rejection is a potential 1-of in the side.
I was considering running 1x detention sphere or echoing truth as well, for those irritating permanents that need to be gone.
Spell pierce is good against both cards if you can have an untapped blue source ready.
Don't forget if you're on the play against a deck running Chalice you can just drop explosives on zero on your first turn while also holding up interaction or a cycler.
2) had some sort of epiphany in the night when I discovered my lost playset of Gifts Ungiven.
Suddenly I became acutely aware that a resolved gifts in this deck seems more powerful than in a lot of other decks. Could allow us to fetch up powerful singleton interaction, and also opens us up to potentially running a 1-of reanimation target (like iona or something).
I realise gifts + 1x reanimation target is starting to look cumbersome as a package in the maindeck and if you're thinking it might be a bit too much I'm thinking along the same lines, but after having thought it out some more, I reckon a version running gifts could probably shave a little on the top end of interaction (cryptic for example) in favour of a powerful midgame engine to shut whole decks down. A singleton noxious revival in the deck allows not only re-using your cyclers but building potential gifts piles with as foretold in it.
So,,, here's my current "normal" list:
4x ancestral vision
4x as foretold
1x engineered explosives
2x spell snare
1x spell pierce
1x dispel
1x mana leak
3x remand
2x cryptic
3x path to Exile
4x striped riverwinder
4x curator of mysteries
4x Street wraith
2x architects of will
5x island
4x flooded strand
1x hallowed fountain
1x prairie stream
1x mystic gate
2x seachrome coast
4x Tolaria West
1x field of ruin
2x hurkyl's recall
1x stony silence
2x ghostly prison
4x leyline of the void
1x dispel
1x ceremonious rejection
3x meddling mage
1x whatever I feel like
So you'll notice a couple of things here:
1) white splash and 3x path in the main
2) gone down to 3 remand (replaced it with a mana leak)
3) running a suite of one mana interaction to save us from early pressure and also speed up our clock in terms of planting an As Foretold with counter backup.
4) meddling mage in the side. This is a bit of secret tech I'm not too keen om sharing because surprise is the main factor, but 99% of decks and pilots will be siding out removal against us after game 1, and decks where meddling mage is good definitely won't be bringing it in for game 2 (storm, ad naus, random combo anything) so there's a huge free-win factor at work here and from some mild testing I can see it really works wonders. It works so well with how an opponent will be forced into sideboarding, and if we go to game three and they board back in removal, more fool them because you'll be rocking hexproof dudes and bringing stuff back over and over.
Other things of note; I valued hurkyl's recall over stony silence in a 2:1 split because of Chalice. They both have similar roles but j felt it was worth having at least one stony.
Ghostly prison; this is like the polar opposite of meddling mage. Bring it in against the swarm and creature decks and force them to either play threats or attack, not both. As a deck that wants to land a 3 mana enchantment this just gives us a higher density of 3-mana ways to impact the board and it's been very good so far. In multiples it's disgusting haha but one is enough for you to take over a game.
I feel like I've got combo, control, midrange and creature aggro covered fairly well. The tricky part is no leyline of sanctity so valakut decks will be tough.
I think the toughest matchup is probably humans. If that's really where we're at I'm happy with this build.
I'm gonna put up a gifts version later today.
Yeah, be tutorable is a big advantage. And you dont need to tap lands do cast it. But Ratched Bomb can destroy Liliana... Explosives just destroy CMC 2 in our deck. Anyway, i will test it!
I will ask again: what you guys think about Profaner of the dead? Im really liking this little guy.
UBlue EndU
BAd NauseamB
What would you guys say is the right call for playing Tolaria west as a land? Is keeping a 1-landerb with TW as my only other land a bad choice? What if I have some cyclers to dig?
Draft My Cube!
I've been playing in my head with Gifts for a while, but couldn't find something that made me want to dedicate all those slots to it. I feel like getting 2 bombs in the yard is not needed, if I'm casting living end I'm usually ok, and if you pick more than 2 cards they get to choose which ones go to your hand, where you probably don't want them. I was just as excited when I thought about it initially, and have since dropped the idea. Hopefully you'll find something I missed!
Ghostly Prison is great against Humans, if only we had the original card, Propaganda!
I haven't played these days, but will definitely try the evoke creatures I mentioned (AEthersnipe and Shriekmaw, maybe Mulldrifter). Shriekmaw deals with the creature it killed again when they both return, and AEthersnipe can bounce stuff as a creature (no spell pierce or negate) and then again when it returns, seems potentially very powerful.
A weird card I would love to try but will probably never have time is Quicken. It cantrips, so it's not that bad ever, and it has the potential to abuse As Foretold with Visions/Living end on their turn as well. At worst, you just "cycle" it for another card for U if needed.
End of their turn Living end and swing for the win is the one thing I've always felt the traditional Living End had over us.
Edit: Profaner of the dead would work better against smaller creature decks, so I guess it could be decent in the sideboard for those matchups? 4 mana seems a heavy cost anyway, is it fast enough for you? And requires to tap out, not die before the trigger, and only bounces creatures with <3 toughness (I assume you'll be sacking him to his ability) Let me know if I'm missing something cool it does, I don't feel like it's worth it at first sight.
I just realized that Explosives doesn't work against Chalice for zero. If you cast Explosives for zero it will be countered. So, Ratched is better!!
UBlue EndU
BAd NauseamB
I literally explained the interaction with sunburst, colourless mana and Chalice in the comment you quoted haha.
Anyway 0_0
Played a bunch of matches last night & did well (didn't lose a match) but learnt a few things.
1) I needed to be able to cast Street wraith (or at least the option to...) so i'm going to add a watery grave to my list to add to the Bojuka bog as black sources. For a low opportunity cost it's a worthwhile option to have.
2) maindeck tutorable explosives was amazing. Everyone needs to run one, just like amulet Bloom used to (the only other deck that has played Tolaria West to any success).
3) the suite of spells I've been running for interaction are superior to the old clunky 3-mana stuff people were trying to parse before. Cones online earlier and interacts when you need to against fast decks.
4) path to Exile was amazing as well.
2 Street Wraith
2 Nimble Obstructionist
4 Curator of Mysteries
4 Striped Riverwinder
Enchantment
4 As Foretold
Land
3 Tolaria West
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Seachrome Coast
1 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Field of Ruin
1 Plains
3 Island
2 Spell Snare
4 Remand
1 Supreme Will
3 Cryptic Command
2 Mana Leak
4 Path to Exile
Sorcery
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Living End
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Detention Sphere
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
1 Pithing Needle
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Spell Pierce
1 Condemn
1 Disenchant
1 Negate
Just not sure about the 2 Spell Pierce in sideboard. Sometimes I prefer Tormods Crypt, or Hurkyl's Recall, or Nimble Obstructionist. Im really confused about that 2 less spots. I used to play big championships and i try to use the most usefull cards for the big modern field.
UBlue EndU
BAd NauseamB
Now changed. Thanks for the heads up.
I'd say for sure that your suite of interaction is far too top-heavy on mana cost. When nearly half of it costs 3 and 4 mana and none of it costs less that two, I'm not sure exactly how you hope to survive on the draw against decks that can win by turn three. Definitely wrong, needs some tweaking. This is modern after all, and modern demands super fast interaction if you're playing the sort of game where you drop some kind of combo on or around turn 3/4/5 ish.
Other slight nitpick with this list is not maxing out on living end. We want to hit this card (and as foretold) as consistently as possible by turn three every single game. Dropping any will definitely result in some % of games being lost against fast aggro-ish decks where you couldn't find a living end.
Spontaneous mutation is fun. I like the concept. Having played a few chunks of matches against different decks though I can see one glaring issue; the matches where you most need removal are the ones where you struggle to fill your yard and filter through your deck. In these situations (where the removal is the thing that saves you) unfortunately I can't see mutation doing much. Running fetches certainly helps and I think it's actually a decent option in terms of playable fringe tech, but I think it needs some serious testing before I'll put any in my deck for a competitive tournament over (say) path to Exile which is easily splashable and fairly unconditional. However I get why you're running it for sure and I'd say keep testing the card if you like it. Just make sure to be really honest to yourself whether path would just be better in the situations you cast mutation. Like when you're on your second living end of the game and that creature you originally cast mutation on is coming back from the yard, would path have been better? Carefully consider it and we'll all learn and improve from your efforts and testing with a new card.
And finally bud you've got some definite weird jank in your sideboard that I'm honestly not sure benefits you over the amazing hate cards available to us. Stuffy doll? The arbiter at least I can see some fringe value but then what about (for example) ghostly prison which comes down a turn earlier and is harder to remove, and works well in concert with living end allowing you to attack while keeping them stalled. If you can't stomach a white splash I can see the arbiter doing something at least haha.
No graveyard hate or artifact hate in the side? Feels a bit weird :S
I'd suggest maindeck:
-2 Disallow
-1 cryptic
-1 remand
-1 mana leak
+1 spell pierce
+1 dispel
+2 Spell snare
+1 living end
And sideboard:
-2 stuffy doll
-2 Spell Pierce
-1 pithing needle
+2 hurkyl's recall
+3 leyline of the void
Man, Stuffy Doll is GG against DS. And its a good blocker if combined with Silent against aggro decks. CMC 5 is hard, I know, but you need to know that you have a control deck.
Dont you prefer Tomord's Crypts instead Leyline of the void? Its tutorable by Tolaria.
I agree that Path is better than Mutation, but I prefer the Mono Blue list. I already tested splashing to other colors and the deck became very weak against Trons, cause you need to take out the Field of Ruin. I'm using 4 Polluted Delta just to filter and to work with Mutation, its not a real splash. Mutation is doing his job for now and I will keep it.
I will consider the other sugestions. Thanks.
UBlue EndU
BAd NauseamB
Without any real one mana interaction, and with a top-heavy counter suite and fairly situational "removal" I'd say I know exactly what I've got and it isn't a control deck. It's a combo deck that hopes to luck into the midgame rather than have a decent plan to get there.
On shadow:
Death's Shadow is a fast deck. That's why it has replaced jund as the best "midrange" deck in the format. A turn 1 thoughtseize followed by turn 2-3 shadow isn't that unlikely, and they tend to play either version of liliana *maindeck* to remove stuffy doll (and they'll be doing so at a distinct mana advantage over you- 3 mana for your 5, plus additional effects). Recognising that you're running slow 3 and 4 mana interaction a savvy shadow player will keep in their top end in game 2 because it wrecks you. Also they play 8 discard spells and stubborn denial so good luck landing an as foretold or any 3 mana spell before they kill you. This is why stuff like dispel and spell pierce are decent in the maindeck. Multi-purpose. Can protect your combo from turn 4+ (whereas Disallow would be turn 6+) and also smashes stuff like collected company, burn spells, removal, storm spells, ad nauseum etc.
Another consideration is that shadow generally plays 2 ish temur battle rage to speed up their clock against decks which are slow to interact or don't pack much interaction, and that card stops stuffy doll from doing anything besides making the shadow slightly bigger and killing you quicker.
When they have *maindeck* ways of making your sideboard tech (which costs 5 mana!) look stupid, I'd say maybe have a rethink.
I mean you've got the core of the deck there and the core is powerful. You'll probably do pretty well. I'm intrigued to see how you do with mutation as a card so let us know. Genuinely though, drop your curve with your interaction spells and you'll see your win % improve across modern matchups.
Re; leyline vs tormod's crypt... I'm not sure. I have Bojuka bog which is tutorable and so far I've liked having leyline out of the sideboard as a harder 'nope' against dredge, reanimator, storm and so forth. I don't know which is correct honestly, so I'll try both. Certainly either could be right depending on the meta.
Have fun testing. Be honest with your results. Look forward to hearing what you've come up with
Spell Snare is wonderful, and Pierce puts in a lot of work. I keep Dispel in the sideboard, but it is an all star when it comes in.
I've tried 2x Quicken for a couple of games, and it seemed pretty decent. I cycled it a couple of times with mana left at the end of turn, but I also managed to use it to draw 3 at their EOT and to cast living end, untap and kill them (that game was brutal, he was about to swing for lethal, I tap-draw, quicken, Living End and then swing for the kill in my turn :P). I still can't tell if I'll keep it, but it is not awful, and can bring value.
I disagree on the deck being combo. I've grinded a ton of games without a huge Living End and swinging for the kill. And lost games after casting Living End t3 or t4, the "combo" doesn't guarantee anything, it's not a combo really, just a powerful play, like drawing 3 from Visions.
There are some games when everything goes right and you end up playing the "combo" and killing early, but most games for me go long, playing a clear control role until I can turn the tables and go for the kill.
I'll leave the cards I want to test here just in case somebody is looking for ideas and has more time to test them, I can play a lot less than I wished these days:
Shriekmaw
AEthersnipe
Quicken
Horribly Awry
Reality Shift
For those playing fetches, either Perplex or Drift of Phantasms and a Crucible of Worlds. It's just an easy to assemble combo, transmute allows grabbing the crucible, and Crucible + Fetches or Ghost Quarter is a powerhouse, blowing up every land they have or never missing a land drop. The transmute can also grab As Foretold, so that's extra consistency there as well.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
But leylines are a weird thing, some people like them, some don't (I don't). They take a lot of sideboard space if you want them to be reliable, since they are usually dead draws after the initial hand. I much prefer other more versatile cards, like collective brutality against burn (all 3 modes are very relevant, gaining life, getting a burn spell from their hand and killing a creature all in 1 is just brutal for them)
We already run and use 4 Ancestral Visions to fight discard, we shouldn't worry about it much. I think most concern about discard comes from viewing the deck as combo, and thinking that if they take your As Foretold or your Living End you've lost. We draw a ton of cards, we shouldn't care about discard that much.
As for leyline of the void, I much prefer Tormod's Crypt which we can tutor if needed, and/or Faerie Macabre that can trim their graveyard from pesky cards while being a body when brought back.
It's a matter of personal choice in the end, nobody will deny the power of either leyline t0, I just don't like the "gamble" aspect of them.
I'm trying 2x Search for Azcanta now, and have trimmed 1 Living End, since I frequently found myself with extra copies of it. We can tutor one if needed, so having 4 seemed too much. Search feels great, doing a lot of the things we want to be doing.
Current decklist here
Search is an amazing card for the deck, and I definitely think running the 2 of them is correct. I also personally like some number of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. When he flips, with As Foretold you're able to flashback copies of Living End and Ancestral, which is all kinds of stupid lol.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Chalice of the Void is what I'd try in their place if you want something powerful. Neither at 1 nor 2 hurts our gameplan much, since we only have countermagic there. It is tutorable, and can shut down a lot of cards in multiple decks. I feel it could be very good, but don't know what to take out for it, Torpor Orb is the candidate, but it has been great in the Humans and Jeskai matchups, as well as Eldrazi Tron.
The times you get to cycle 2-3 creatures in the first two turns, and cast As Foretold on curve (i.e. turn 3) AND Living End on the same turn DO feel degenerate. We'll call that the Optimal Line. (Yes, with the current incarnation of the deck you don't always want or need to do that, even given the choice. I understand this, it's irrelevant to the exploration of the deck being more combo-centric because we're assuming we want to combo ASAP. This is all a thought experiment, put on your combo hats please.)
Either the deck needs to speed up the Optimal Line by a full turn, or greatly increase the consistency of hitting it on turn 3.
Options for speeding up the Optimal Line (turn 3 As Foretold + Living End with creatures in the yard):
* Turn 1 Utopia Sprawl on a Forest. This gets us to As Foretold on turn 2. It can be cast when As Foretold has one counter on it, in which case it's pure ramp, because it doesn't have summoning sickness. It also doesn't die to Living End, and can help colour fix for a third colour.
* Birds of Paradise. It dies to removal and your own Living End. But it is a speedbump that can very seldom buy a turn. It also colour-fixes for a potential third colour.
* Simian Spirit Guide. This is played in Jund Living End for extra speed. It also gives them a creature they can hard-cast, so they have a Demonic Dread target versus a non-creature deck. We don't have that requirement. He does create the opportunity for turn 1 Remand or Search for Azcanta however, which Utopia Sprawl does not.
Let me know if you have any more options for speeding up the As Foretold -> Living End turn, which is constrained by mana. Hitting 3 mana on turn 2 seems especially important because it allows you to spend that turn casting As Foretold OR transmuting Tolaria West/Drift of Phantasms.
Options for making the Optimal Line more probable:
* Faithless Looting. It essentially halves the cycling cost for the 1 mana cyclers. And it also helps you dig for whichever piece of the combo you need. If there was an additional synergy with Faithless Looting, such as enabling Delirium (which we don't need) or Delve (which we can't use effectively), then it would be a resounding success. As it stands, it feels bad, honestly, because we don't have a high enough density of cyclers. So it's often "draw two, discard a land and Remand".
* Commune with the Gods. Turn 2 play or turn 1 with SSG. It can find As Foretold but not Living End. Fills the yard for Living End and Search for Azcanta.
Then there are a bunch of cards that don't fit our criteria for various reasons. Nagging Thoughts doesn't dig deep enough. Strategic Planning is not bad, but it's either this or Remand. Glimpse the Future is too slow + a sorcery. Forbidden Alchemy is an instant, but too expensive for our explicit purpose of getting the turn 3 As Foretold + Living End.
Another angle for increasing consistency is adding redundant ways of casting Living End. This can be achieved two ways in Modern that are fast enough for our purposes.
* Cascade cards, such as Demonic Dread (making the deck Grixis), Ardent Plea (making it UW), or Violent Outburst (making it Temur). The trouble is that you have to cut Remand and anything else with cmc <= 2. That may or may not include Ancestral Vision.
* Kari Zev's Expertise. This is likely a sideboard card. Sram's Expertise and Yahenni's Expertise cost 1 more than Kari Zev's, and are not terrible cards in their own right, but don't fit the goal of turn 3 As Foretold -> Living End.
* (The third way that I can think of is Bring to Light, but that's very slow at 5 mana. I'd be interested in hearing about more, besides Hideaway lands.)
So, given all these approaches, what are some directions that could be fruitful?
Personally the UR direction with Simian Spirit Guide and Kari Zev's Expertise sounds promising. Unfortunately Faithless Looting doesn't work with either Demonic Dread or Violent Outburst, but I think removing Remand to make the cascaders work seems like a decent angle of attack.
Another nice benefit of turn 1 Utopia Sprawl or BoP is that you get access to turn 2 Beast Within, Fulminator Mage (Temur), OR play + activate Field of Ruin and use your new untapped basic land to cycle. So it ramps up the mana denial angle of the deck substantially. BoP also gives you another target for Kari Zev's Expertise, if needed.
I'd love to hear any thoughts you have about moving in the combo direction. Based on the assumption that combo is what we want to do, how can we do the most degenerate s*** possible?
Since you run discard effects like Faithless looting, you can use big nasty creatures with no cycling and toss them that way, so the Living Ends become a lot more powerful. I think it was MagicAIDS that run it.
However, I believe that path (focusing on combo) leads you to traditional Living End, and you'll soon want to drop As Foretold and just use Cascade to cast it, it can be done Instant speed so you can swing in your turn, it is just better as a combo.
Another interesting resource I found, platinum pro player Eduardo Sajgalik (Walaoumpa) made a series of videos playing different decks during January, here is the one for mono U Living End: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZikBSUDfGHU
I'm happy to see him suggest several of the things I've been trying, and agree that the deck is still in version 1.0, but has great potential.
anyways here is the current list i am playing.
2 nimble obstructionist
2 architects of will
4 curator of mysteries
4 street wraith
4 striped riverwinder
spells: 23
4 ancestral vision
4 living end
4 remand
1 unsubstantiate
4 as foretold
2 supreme will
4 cryptic command
1 bojuka bog
3 field of ruin
1 ghost quarter
9 island
1 oboro, palace in the clouds
1 river of tears
1 sunken ruins
4 tolaria west
1 tormod's crypt
2 dispel
2 hurkyl's recall
4 leyline of sanctity
4 leyline of the void
any advice would be great. im still pretty new to the deck, but at least i am catching my misplays and starting to correct them. when i played modern i piloted lantern control and i can say for sure that this deck is as hard if not more so to pilot. it is, however extremely powerful and super fun to play.
played a few more games just now and really noticed the power of the leylines. in multiple games i mulled to four just to find a leyline and ended up winning. not saying you can't win with out them in the match-ups that you board them in, but if you doubt your hand at all i think you should mull in hopes of getting a pay off leyline.
also, i noticed that against decks with heavy discard, but also packing graveyard value, we can just bring in tormod's crypt and leave out leyline of the void. bojuka bog can pull tons of weight. i even cryptic command bounced a bojuka bog against jund just to land the game winning living end.
either way the more i play this deck the more i am convinced it could be a powerhouse. i think it just needs the fine tuning of a mtgsalvation primer to come up with the most consistent build.
p.s. screwing your opponent's draws with architects is so satisfying
lastly and i hate to rant; i did actually win a game without casting as foretold or living end so it is possible.
Less interaction makes it more necessary to find As Foretold + Living End faster, while a bit more interaction plays more controlish and gives you plenty of time (I rarely cast As Foretold t3, unless I somehow have no permission in hand)
I've put some games in these days, here's what I got:
Search for Azcanta has been very good at helping find whatever I needed, with the scry first, and once it flips it's just insane! It's earned it spot (2x) for now at least.
I have also found that just flashing in Nimble Obstructionist at their EOT and then devoting to countering their threats/keeping them from Tron is a nice strategy against Tron decks. Didn't even bother with Living ends, always transmuted for either Field Of Ruin/Ghost Quarter or Ancestral Visions. Wurmcoil makes Living End awkward, plus they might just drop Chalice on 0 and wreck your plans, and you stop worrying about Relic, so this works very nicely.
Nimble Obstructionist is also such a surprise a ton of times! Countering relic sacs, oblivion stones, sneaking a living end through a chalice of the void, I also countered the annihilator 6 from Emrakul once and could win on the crack back.
3 Mana is intensive, but I prefer him over Supreme Will or Disallow.
I'm also very happy having cut Living End to 3 copies.
The missing piece IMO is the sideboard tech to win aggro matchups. Spell Snare helps and that's why I run 3, but it's frequently not enough.
I have run into very little Burn/Humans lately, a lot of Tron and Control, plus that Mardu Pyromancer and Hollow one decks.
I have yet to play against Counters Company! Or 8 rack (I suspect that one will be very much in our favor), Infect or Bogles... I only played Dredge once... Modern is just so vast nowadays that the matchups are really a lottery, and it's impossible to plan for all of them.
Chalice of the void is the complement to Engineered Explosives I will try, but I fear it might be too slow unless it's in the opening hand. Also only have paper copies, and I'm not planning on spending that much for the online ones, so testing it won't be easy.
I figure I'll have some fun with this for a week, then go back to control.