You'd benefit from maindeck engineered explosives and some kind of other ramp from either everflowing chalice or mind stone.
Buried ruin is interesting tech, I like the option. My gut feeling is I don't think you want more than maybe 2? Still, it's a card I hadn't considered and seems decent enough. Academy ruins is *Probably* better but you've interested me enough to test it out.
I don't like 19 lands but I don't want to dissuade you from testing it out. Please feed back how it goes over a large number of games.
Also see if you can track down some number of myr retriever. It's a great card for this deck. If you draw it mid-combo it just cements your win instantly.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
My old list has no Galvanic Blast in the slot intended for Mindstone or Everflowing Chalice. These cards are great, yes they truly are especially when you are on the play and you keep dumping all the 1 mana by turn 2 or three. However, what I think the deck is lacking is a little bit of interaction especially against the notorious Eidolon of Great Revel and those pesky Co-Co Counters creatures. (As we just need to kill the Devoted Druid.) I just had the realization last night to add the Copperline Gorge for the red mana. I think I could have played Grove of the Burnwillows but it gives opponents life and I couldn't take the risk of giving them life if I drew multiple copies of Galvanic Blast
Buried Ruin truly shines against heavy discard and disrupt decks like Grixis Deathshadow and Jund. If they don't have the Scavenging Ooze right out, then we can stall them with multiple casting of Hangarback Walker from the yard. I had games where I did not combo out, and just attacked with flying Thopters from recurring Hangarback Walkers.
Myr Retriever is something I would like to test out. I think 4 copies would do?
start with maybe 2 myr retrievers. they are good against discard, during combo, they are just generally decent. with trawler, two retrievers (one can be in the yard) is essentially infinite mana, draw your deck.
i like whir of invention. is triple blue too difficult though?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
I think its really difficult for this deck. I truly fear of not casting the card. We can't remove Darksteel Citadel because it gives us three mana during combo. Sanctum of Ugin is the only fast way of fetching the lone Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. Both are essential and do not give blue mana. I really don't like to depend on eggs. Maybe adding Prophetic Prism could somehow fix the issue?
Agree totally with Purklefluff. I don't see, on paper (didn't test your version), how the changes will benefit the deck.
1. "The fastest, most efficient and only route to victory is to cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn" I agree and in my experience you need a critical mass of cmc 0 / 1 / 2 to go off fast and don't fizzle. Also I can't see how buried ruin is better than academy ruins. Sure, you can get back in your hand some eggs and keep the engine going but you can do it in 90% of the cases with academy ruins as well and you can activate academy ruins more than once, especially in the grindy control matchup (my 0.5c).
2. I think 4 galvanic blast are too many, I can see how did the deck autoloses to Thalia, Kataki, Eidolon great Revel/Rethoric but I think EE synergies better with our strategy, despite being much slower than blast. I think before playing 4 galvanic blast main you may want to try some number of sweeper (maybe too slow again?), personally I struggle more against the go wide strategies (ie: COCO).
3. I wish we could use Whir but triple blue is a lot Latern was able to successfully integrate it in their last iterations but they play 4 Spire of Industry and 4 Glimmervoid so tweaking our manabase may be an option. Totally agree also on the fact that, if we want to incorporate Whir, Prophetic Prism looks better than mindstone. On this regard, MTGO user Tangrams got some 5-0s lately with his build of KCI that I believe it could be the way to go for the future, basically it is an oldish egg list that kills with the pyrite spellbomb loop but it plays Scrap Trawler and Stirring instead of Faith's Reward. Note the Spellbomb can act, again, as a removal for 1R. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/796801#paper
kind of on topic of the whir builds im planning to run this list and was wondering what should be sided in/out for different matches. i have reservoir and mentor as alternate win cons but im thinking of putting an emrakul somewhere in the list if those dont pan out. i have a good handle on combo interactions, but really need the advice on sb options for more popular match ups. also i havent had any issue with the triple blue in goldfishing the deck because of how many cards can actually produce and be reused to make blue mana. granted that could change in an actual match.
I havent played Eggs in a while, but it seems like Faith’s Reward infinite is done with, and it seems to be all about getting fattys out? I never liked the Emrakul plan, as it was a dead card in hand, and with the infinite recursion version of the deck made it the most efficient. This was also a few blocks after Second Sunrise ban and a lot has come out since then. So, is Faith's Reward strategy dead?
Howdy, I played KCI at GP OKC this past weekend to an 11-4 record which was good for 65th place. I've been following this forum for a while and have been sad to see it die down so I'm hoping to spawn some more discussion. I don't remember enough detail to write a full tournament report but I'll give my match-ups and deck list and can expand on anything if needed.
After the tournament I plan on changing the Paths back into Fatal Push (which was a last minute change before the tourney) and finding room for some sort of wrath in the board (probably Kozilek's Return, potentially Bontu's Last Reckoning).
Wow, good job for such an impressive result! Your list is rather unique:
How the full set of babule performed? How did the single retriever felt vs the usual two copies?
What was the reasoning behind the Lingering Souls and the Path in the sideboard? I am on a completely different plan
i think just adding aethrgrid, whipflair, or Last Reckoning puts your SB in a good place. what matches were the souls for and how did they preform? Also in the eldrazi matchups was there any time when a chalice for 1 just ruined your day?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
@degiomon
The full set of Baubles really helped to smooth out draws and make your first turns more explosive with Mox Opal. Against discard decks I typically try to grind them out with card advantage. So having a 1 mana egg in play to crack as soon as I play Scrap Trawler to return Bauble to my hand for an extra draw is useful.
I run the single retriever because I just tutor it up when I assemble the infinite combo. It's pretty miserable in your more "fair" draws so I didn't want more than that.
Lingering Souls in the board were amazing in the grind matchups and against certain decks that are weak to them. They shine in Death's Shadow, Jund, Abzan, Jeskai type strategies as well as decks like Affinity and Infect. I normally run Fatal Push to give me interaction against Devoted Druid combo as well as to kill hate creatures out of decks like Humans. I switched to path for the tournament because I was trying out a plan against Grixis Death's Shadow where I play a fair game plan with lingering souls while I Engineered Explosives away their Death's Shadows and Path their Delve Creatures.
@socketto
I agree I need some sort of wrath. Not having access to one made the elf matchup seem nearly impossible. Whipflare is an idea I hadn't considered but is probably the forerunner for the slot now that you mention it.
You can see my above response about Lingering Souls. Eldrazi Tron did play chalice against me, but Engineered Explosives did it's job beautifully to get rid of them. I even had chalice played for 0 against me, but casting Engineered Explosives for 1 colorless mana makes it cost 1 on the stack but still have no counters on it.
@degiomon
The full set of Baubles really helped to smooth out draws and make your first turns more explosive with Mox Opal. Against discard decks I typically try to grind them out with card advantage. So having a 1 mana egg in play to crack as soon as I play Scrap Trawler to return Bauble to my hand for an extra draw is useful.
I run the single retriever because I just tutor it up when I assemble the infinite combo. It's pretty miserable in your more "fair" draws so I didn't want more than that.
Lingering Souls in the board were amazing in the grind matchups and against certain decks that are weak to them. They shine in Death's Shadow, Jund, Abzan, Jeskai type strategies as well as decks like Affinity and Infect. I normally run Fatal Push to give me interaction against Devoted Druid combo as well as to kill hate creatures out of decks like Humans. I switched to path for the tournament because I was trying out a plan against Grixis Death's Shadow where I play a fair game plan with lingering souls while I Engineered Explosives away their Death's Shadows and Path their Delve Creatures.
I like the bauble plan. I also can see the lingering souls plan There is a thing I am missing tho (have been playing the deck for only couple of months): how can you go infinite with the single retriever?
So assuming you understand the normal 1 drop artifact into Mox Opal chain for card draw and mana. You can assemble an infinite combo in 2 ways. 2x Scrap Trawler + Myr Retriever or Scrap Trawler + Myr Retriever + 2nd Krak-Clan Ironworks. The key is you always have 1 Scrap Trawler that sits in play and another artifact that has CMC 3 or more to return Myr Retriever.
For Example: Scrap Trawler in play and Myr Retriever in graveyard. Play 2nd Scrap Trawer, sacrifice to get back a 2 or 1 drop artifact and Myr Retriever. Use the other artifact to draw cards and make mana. Play Myr Retriever and sacrifice it to return the other sacrificed Scrap Trawler and the 1 drop artifact. Use the other artifact to draw cards and make mana. Repeat the process to make infinite mana and draw your whole deck.
Once I have assembled this, the 1 drop artifact I return is Pyrite Spellbomb, which I use to shoot my opponent for infinite damage.
Isn't hangarback Walker just better than lingering souls?
Also only playing one hangarback means your 4x sanctum of ugin are less consistent? I played two for a while and ended up going to 3 so that I could more consistently fetch my emrakul. Mainly this comes from draws and games being an imperfect mess of removal and interaction so it's rare that you get to assemble a clean combo.
I'm really pleased you did well with the deck at a big tournament, although I have to say there seem to be some unorthodox or weird choices in your deck and I wonder if with a few tweaks you may have done ever better. I played this deck a *lot* and jammed so many games, but was always a bit too chicken to take it to a really big tournament, opting instead for something simpler like scapeshift. With hindsight this may have been better; hangarback Walker is great against midrange opponents and being able to get them back from the yard repeatedly is strong. Likewise the main combo is insane against linear decks with little interaction.
On midrange, I found a pair of wurmcoil engines to be a strong sideboard plan. I always ran two (foil) myr retrievers so having a repeatable wurmcoil is just game against most grindy decks.
Also in terms of sweepers, kozilek's return is the spell you want. Being able to hit it off stirrings and also being instant are both huge gains. Instant means you can punish an elf/humans/merfolk player while playing around coco/vial/Lord on the stack/whatever.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
[...]
Also in terms of sweepers, kozilek's return is the spell you want. Being able to hit it off stirrings and also being instant are both huge gains. Instant means you can punish an elf/humans/merfolk player while playing around coco/vial/Lord on the stack/whatever.
Fwiw, I am currently experimenting for the aggro/go-wide strategies Porphyry Nodes and ghostly prison which tends to buy me a lot of times (especially also because I run 2 bounce spell). I found that sometimes just 2 damage is not enough
A big bonus for souls come from the strength they have against discard heavy decks and things like affinity. Hangarback does not interact in the same way (gets discarded or cannot be sacrificed for flying blockers against affinity without KCI). I played 2 Hangarbacks for a long time and think that it is the right number. I cut 1 to fit in the 4 Mishra's Baubles as an experiment, but I have since gone down to 3 Baubles and 2 Hangarbacks again.
I tried the Wurmcoil Engine plan for months but was always disappointed by it being too slow, being thoughtseized, being pathed, being countered by Ceremonious Rejection. The Lingering Souls plan has given me the most success by being something that dodges all the reactive spells that are normally played against you.
I really like Kozilek's Return for its ability to be found off Ancient Stirrings and that is what I have typically played in the past. After my match against elves and how the humans matchup plays out, I'm afraid 3 mana is too slow. I really like the Whipflare idea Socketto suggested so I'm most likely going to be testing that in the near future.
Really been liking the lists with Whir and Myr Retriever. Retriever makes it almost impossible to whiff once you have the pieces in play.
Which list you are on? I didn't try it yet because I thought moving from a 3 card combo deck to a 5 card combo deck (2 myr, kci, bomb and trawler) would be a bit too much but I can see the appeal of instant speed eot Whir and the possibility of tutoring for some silver bullet (bridge ftw). Please tell me more
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Buried ruin is interesting tech, I like the option. My gut feeling is I don't think you want more than maybe 2? Still, it's a card I hadn't considered and seems decent enough. Academy ruins is *Probably* better but you've interested me enough to test it out.
I don't like 19 lands but I don't want to dissuade you from testing it out. Please feed back how it goes over a large number of games.
Also see if you can track down some number of myr retriever. It's a great card for this deck. If you draw it mid-combo it just cements your win instantly.
Buried Ruin truly shines against heavy discard and disrupt decks like Grixis Deathshadow and Jund. If they don't have the Scavenging Ooze right out, then we can stall them with multiple casting of Hangarback Walker from the yard. I had games where I did not combo out, and just attacked with flying Thopters from recurring Hangarback Walkers.
Myr Retriever is something I would like to test out. I think 4 copies would do?
Are there other list that play Whir of Invention?
i like whir of invention. is triple blue too difficult though?
1. "The fastest, most efficient and only route to victory is to cast Emrakul, the Aeons Torn" I agree and in my experience you need a critical mass of cmc 0 / 1 / 2 to go off fast and don't fizzle. Also I can't see how buried ruin is better than academy ruins. Sure, you can get back in your hand some eggs and keep the engine going but you can do it in 90% of the cases with academy ruins as well and you can activate academy ruins more than once, especially in the grindy control matchup (my 0.5c).
2. I think 4 galvanic blast are too many, I can see how did the deck autoloses to Thalia, Kataki, Eidolon great Revel/Rethoric but I think EE synergies better with our strategy, despite being much slower than blast. I think before playing 4 galvanic blast main you may want to try some number of sweeper (maybe too slow again?), personally I struggle more against the go wide strategies (ie: COCO).
3. I wish we could use Whir but triple blue is a lot Latern was able to successfully integrate it in their last iterations but they play 4 Spire of Industry and 4 Glimmervoid so tweaking our manabase may be an option. Totally agree also on the fact that, if we want to incorporate Whir, Prophetic Prism looks better than mindstone. On this regard, MTGO user Tangrams got some 5-0s lately with his build of KCI that I believe it could be the way to go for the future, basically it is an oldish egg list that kills with the pyrite spellbomb loop but it plays Scrap Trawler and Stirring instead of Faith's Reward. Note the Spellbomb can act, again, as a removal for 1R.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/796801#paper
4 spire of industry
4 aether hub
4 botanical sanctum
2 island
4 darksteel citadel
creatures
4 scrap trawler
2 myr retriever
other
4 whir of invention
4 ancient stirrings
4 krark-clan ironworks
4 chromatic star
4 Terrarion
3 mox opal
2 pyrite spellbomb
4 Ichor Wellspring
3 Prophetic Prism
1 aetherflux reservoir
3 chromatic sphere
1 pithing needle
1 nihil spellbomb
1 nature's claim
3 seal of primordium
2 abrupt decay
2 defense grid
2 monastery mentor
2 padeem, consul of innovation
1 ensnaring bridge
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
How I sideboard:
-3 Mox Opal +3 SB
or
-4 Galvanic Blast +4 SB
And that's the maximum. I believe that we should not dilute the deck with SB for consistency.
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Rd 1: Bye
Rd 2: Bye
Rd 3: 1-2 GB Midrange
Rd 4: 2-0 5-Color Death's Shadow
Rd 5: 2-1 Jeskai Tempo
Rd 6: 2-1 GW Aggro
Rd 7: 2-0 GB Tron
Rd 8: 0-2 Elves
Rd 9: 0-2 Burn
Rd 10: 1-2 UW Control
Rd 11: 2-0 Merfolk
Rd 12: 2-1 Eldrazi Tron
Rd 13: 2-1 5-Color Humans
Rd 14: 2-0 Eldrazi Tron
Rd 15: 2-1 Affinity
Final: 11-4
2 Glint-Nest Crane
1 Myr Retriever
4 Scrap Trawler
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Ancient Stirrings
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
1 Chromatic Sphere
4 Chromatic Star
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Terrarion
4 Ichor Wellspring
2 Mind Stone
4 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Forest
2 Glimmervoid
2 Inventors' Fair
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Spire of Industry
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Nature's Claim
3 Path to Exile
2 Defense Grid
4 Lingering Souls
After the tournament I plan on changing the Paths back into Fatal Push (which was a last minute change before the tourney) and finding room for some sort of wrath in the board (probably Kozilek's Return, potentially Bontu's Last Reckoning).
How the full set of babule performed? How did the single retriever felt vs the usual two copies?
What was the reasoning behind the Lingering Souls and the Path in the sideboard? I am on a completely different plan
Cheers!
Tooth & Nail........Grishoalbrand....Living Dominance....Tezzerator.........Vannifar Pod
My Decks that have been BANNED
DRS Jund | Kiki-Pod | Bloom Titan | Splinter Twin | KCI
The full set of Baubles really helped to smooth out draws and make your first turns more explosive with Mox Opal. Against discard decks I typically try to grind them out with card advantage. So having a 1 mana egg in play to crack as soon as I play Scrap Trawler to return Bauble to my hand for an extra draw is useful.
I run the single retriever because I just tutor it up when I assemble the infinite combo. It's pretty miserable in your more "fair" draws so I didn't want more than that.
Lingering Souls in the board were amazing in the grind matchups and against certain decks that are weak to them. They shine in Death's Shadow, Jund, Abzan, Jeskai type strategies as well as decks like Affinity and Infect. I normally run Fatal Push to give me interaction against Devoted Druid combo as well as to kill hate creatures out of decks like Humans. I switched to path for the tournament because I was trying out a plan against Grixis Death's Shadow where I play a fair game plan with lingering souls while I Engineered Explosives away their Death's Shadows and Path their Delve Creatures.
@socketto
I agree I need some sort of wrath. Not having access to one made the elf matchup seem nearly impossible. Whipflare is an idea I hadn't considered but is probably the forerunner for the slot now that you mention it.
You can see my above response about Lingering Souls. Eldrazi Tron did play chalice against me, but Engineered Explosives did it's job beautifully to get rid of them. I even had chalice played for 0 against me, but casting Engineered Explosives for 1 colorless mana makes it cost 1 on the stack but still have no counters on it.
I like the bauble plan. I also can see the lingering souls plan There is a thing I am missing tho (have been playing the deck for only couple of months): how can you go infinite with the single retriever?
Cheers!
For Example: Scrap Trawler in play and Myr Retriever in graveyard. Play 2nd Scrap Trawer, sacrifice to get back a 2 or 1 drop artifact and Myr Retriever. Use the other artifact to draw cards and make mana. Play Myr Retriever and sacrifice it to return the other sacrificed Scrap Trawler and the 1 drop artifact. Use the other artifact to draw cards and make mana. Repeat the process to make infinite mana and draw your whole deck.
Once I have assembled this, the 1 drop artifact I return is Pyrite Spellbomb, which I use to shoot my opponent for infinite damage.
Isn't hangarback Walker just better than lingering souls?
Also only playing one hangarback means your 4x sanctum of ugin are less consistent? I played two for a while and ended up going to 3 so that I could more consistently fetch my emrakul. Mainly this comes from draws and games being an imperfect mess of removal and interaction so it's rare that you get to assemble a clean combo.
I'm really pleased you did well with the deck at a big tournament, although I have to say there seem to be some unorthodox or weird choices in your deck and I wonder if with a few tweaks you may have done ever better. I played this deck a *lot* and jammed so many games, but was always a bit too chicken to take it to a really big tournament, opting instead for something simpler like scapeshift. With hindsight this may have been better; hangarback Walker is great against midrange opponents and being able to get them back from the yard repeatedly is strong. Likewise the main combo is insane against linear decks with little interaction.
On midrange, I found a pair of wurmcoil engines to be a strong sideboard plan. I always ran two (foil) myr retrievers so having a repeatable wurmcoil is just game against most grindy decks.
Also in terms of sweepers, kozilek's return is the spell you want. Being able to hit it off stirrings and also being instant are both huge gains. Instant means you can punish an elf/humans/merfolk player while playing around coco/vial/Lord on the stack/whatever.
Fwiw, I am currently experimenting for the aggro/go-wide strategies Porphyry Nodes and ghostly prison which tends to buy me a lot of times (especially also because I run 2 bounce spell). I found that sometimes just 2 damage is not enough
I tried the Wurmcoil Engine plan for months but was always disappointed by it being too slow, being thoughtseized, being pathed, being countered by Ceremonious Rejection. The Lingering Souls plan has given me the most success by being something that dodges all the reactive spells that are normally played against you.
I really like Kozilek's Return for its ability to be found off Ancient Stirrings and that is what I have typically played in the past. After my match against elves and how the humans matchup plays out, I'm afraid 3 mana is too slow. I really like the Whipflare idea Socketto suggested so I'm most likely going to be testing that in the near future.
Which list you are on? I didn't try it yet because I thought moving from a 3 card combo deck to a 5 card combo deck (2 myr, kci, bomb and trawler) would be a bit too much but I can see the appeal of instant speed eot Whir and the possibility of tutoring for some silver bullet (bridge ftw). Please tell me more