That deck is so strange, only 2 gifts but 2 telling time and beleren? Green just for loam? Academy ruins it's even that important in this build, why not just play crucible he can't get any value from lands in hand. The full 8 pack medling mage and never more with 3 needles to boot! I'm pretty sure u can just get lucky in these 4 round Swiss and random appearances don't mean a ton, not that the deck looks horrible just odd.
Yea look at the first post of this thread. I basically Hadva mix of the two using black splash for lingering flashback, that deck is still pretty sweet. I could see dropping Shakles and upping Snapcaster for a less painful mana base.
When is the best time to ghost quarter someone? Say on turns 2-7. Upkeep? Drawstep? On your turn when they're tapped out?
1) Do you do it on their upkeep so they have 1 less card to use with that mana you give them?
2) Do you do it on their drawstep to increase the chance they draw land that turn?
3) Do you do it when the opponent is tapped (on your turn) so they can't cast bigger spells with that extra mana you give them?
I guess doing it on their upkeep is never correct unless it's u/w which has lots of instant speed spells?
Against decks like tron and jund doing it on their drawstep is probably best?
And doing it when they're tapped out could be good against U/W since they can't do anything special with that extra mana you give them?
Does that sound about right?
Also do you side out loam vs decks that can run blood moon? Loam can either beat the blood moon effect, or just sit in your hand.
Also does anyone know what happens if you have urborg out and then the opponent plays a blood moon effect? I played urborg after he played magus of the moon, and all my non basics only tapped for red. So what happens the other way around?
Dependency Clause, don't worry about it too much, just know that negatives usually override.
Has anyone done testing lately? What's your gauntlet? I've squared off against UW, Zoo, and even the dreaded Jund in the last day or so. Being able to bring in Thrun and equipment has been immense because they have so many dead cards post SB.
So this guy has 3-1'd a few more times with this deck i'm watching the replays as I don't understand how these cards work well together.
Round 1 vs eggs: game 1: He gets a needle out on ghost quarter. Spell snares a flask, one of the 4ish targets in the eggs deck the other being reshape for 2. Opponent did a few value sunrises, and fizzles at the end, he drew half his deck. The gifts deck won with snapcaster beats and burn to the face on turn 7.
game 2: he needles misty since it's in play. plays meddling mage on lotus bloom. second needle on ghost quarter. then nevermore on sunrise. opponent tries to go off with faith's reward and loses on turn 8.
Analysis: I think he got pretty lucky game 1 needling a good card that was in play and having his spell snare be relevant. Game 2 was pretty impressive though.
Round 2 vs UW resto angel: game 1: He gifts on turn 4 when his opponent taps out for ambush snapcaster. He gets loam, explosives, academy ruins, batterskull. Opponent gives him loam and explosives. Opponent stuck on 3 lands. Which gifts guy filters though his deck with 2x telling time. Plays a jace b on turn 7. He uses jace to draw 3 cards then casts another one when it dies. He slowly grinds the opponent out with snapcasters, 3 cards off of little jace, and batterskull.
game 2 opponent stuck on 2 lands and has to discard 2 times, didn't bother to watch the rest
analysis His opponent got mana screwed so it's hard to tell how good the deck is there. He pulled way ahead hitting all his land drops when he got to loam once. He never dredged it after that. It doesn't appear that loam is that good in his deck. The snapcasters in this deck are really good because he can flash back bolt, helix, telling time, mana leak, path etc... The uw guy only has path to flashback. I don't know how good little jace is in the deck. He played 2 and drew 3 cards off of each and killed them. It might be better to play a 3 mana card draw spell so you can flash it back with snapcaster.
Game 3 vs black/red burn game 1: He does nothing for a bunch of turns and is down to 12 life by turn 7. He then casts ajani and his opponent ignores it with his hellspark elemental. He's pretty flooded. He plays baby jace and draws a card. His opponent gets him down to 4 life. Then the gifts guy plays snapcaster as a blocker/bolt but that turns on the burn opponent's searing blaze and he dies.
game 2: Jeeze, he still keeps mana leaks in vs a deck with a low curve. He leaks a goblin guide on turn 2. He sticks a meddling mage on searing blaze. Plays a nevermore on flames of the bloodhand. Its turn 8 and he's at 5 life, the burn deck flooded or has a bunch of searing blazes in hand. Medding mage dies to sudden shock. Another nevermore comes down and names searing blaze. Ajani makes an appearance. Opponent concedes with 5 cards in hand on turn 10.
game 3: Opponent has a pretty good draw. Wins on turn 6 despite having 2 lightning helices cast.
analysis In game 3 you can see how bad the meddling mage plan is. He was stuck on 4 lands on turn 6 with 4 cards in hand. It seems too inconsistent to try that strategy. Just play dispel. This is his first loss.
Game 4 vs rg tron game 1: gets a needle out on karn on turn 2. Opponent has tron on turn 3. But on turn 4 he casts wurmcoil which gets dissipated. On turn 4 he casts gifts for tec edge, loam, needle, and gifts. Opponent gives him needle and loam and concedes. This was the only game recorded.
Sadly this didn't really showcase the deck. He got lucky in some of his games. It doesn't seem like loam is that good in the deck. All he can get back with it is tech edge and academy ruins with gift piles. And the planeswalkers didn't seem too good either. Ajani was a 4 mana lightning helix. I wonder if it would be worth playing delver instead, or does that just turn on all the opponents removal? Jace seemed underwhelming as well. Probably should be a card draw spell if he's just going to kill it after 3 turns. This seems like a very good snapcaster deck. The miser copy of dissipate doesn't seem that bad. The meddling mage sideboard plan seems too gimmicky to me. I guess the 2 pithing needles main deck are to mise against combo decks since he doesn't have that many counters main. Most of his spells are creature removal spells.
I think there's something to this deck though. Play cheap and good removal spells and counters, then get card advantage through gifts/snapcaster/walkers and then try to win via burn/manlands/batterskull. Though I don't really like the meddling mage sideboard plan.
I don't know if one color is better than the other. This guy has 3-1'd and 4-0'd some dailies so I watched his replays to see what was going on.
His deck is mostly on the stack. The cards that are permanents give value when they come into play(snapcaster) or are hard to deal with (batterskull), or both(walkers). So it seems pretty well positioned vs jund making a lot of their removal ineffective. He runs 2 wraths and 1 explosives he can gifts for them to deal with lingering souls.
Also he's probably less reliant on the graveyard. I'm guessing he sides out some snapcasters post board for his meddling mage plan.
I have been contemplating dropping green for red. You lose Abrupt Decay and LFTL. You lose some power on Deathrite Shaman, but you gain a few interesting cards. Most notably, you get four Izzet Charms if you want them. No longer does Iona clutter your hand - you can pitch the girl if you want to. You also gain four more soft counters, which makes a much more imposing deck against combo if you're already Mana Leaking them. Finally, it picks off Shamans, Bob, Affinity things, etc. Charm isn't great at anything, but it's got a lot of utility that this deck could really love.
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I'll probably build that u/w/r/g deck since i'm only missing a few cards online. I'll test it for a bit then probably cut the ajani and 8 cards from the sideboard.
I've been toying with Grixis+Rites online a bit, but haven't touched it in a few weeks. Deck is fine, but still needs some tuning.
Does the lack of the Loam engine hurt at all against tron or are sowing salts enough to lock them down? Also seems like abrupt decay is necessary to beat cranial plating and deathrite's green is very good at times, though less relevant now that jund is off the persist/undying creature plan.
EDIT: what exactly is the red splash for besides salt and bolt, maybe rakdos charm in the SB?
Also, you should keep streaming! I watched some of your old videos and found them to be very helpful.
The hard part is trying to play counters and one for one in a format where Bloodbraid Elf is the biggest enemy. At some point, they're going to start 2-for-1'ing you.
The hard part is trying to play counters and one for one in a format where Bloodbraid Elf is the biggest enemy. At some point, they're going to start 2-for-1'ing you.
Neither of those cheat mana costs like the elf can, 3/2 haste for 1 is pretty above curve. The power level of many 3cc non instants is also pushed hard these daays. BBE is still better in a vacuume but snappy is at least a decent counter measure.
Negate seems pretty awkward in Go's deck. The format is fast enough that mana leak is usually a straight up counterspell, although it is better against Tron and Storm. Sun Titan is a card I had forgotten about for a while, and with the move away from Terminates in Jund, might be worth trying out again.
As for the grixis deck, I just really want to cast cruel ultimatum again. The biggest edge it has over loam gifts is that you can close games out from nowhere courtesy of Bolt/Snapcaster/Vendilion Clique, but the mana is even more difficult thanks to wanting to cast both Izzet Charm and Liliana.
I'm glad you enjoyed my stream! I'm hopefully going to a local modern event in a couple hours, but if that doesn't work out, I'll probably stream for a decent amount of time today. Good luck to those playing in the Grand Prix with the deck.
Well, the list is interesting to say the least.
If you go this route then I would drop green for sure and add in unburial rites/lingering souls for black for sure.
Anyone trying out gifts beatdown? The idea appeals to me for no particular reason, just seems sweet.
1) Do you do it on their upkeep so they have 1 less card to use with that mana you give them?
2) Do you do it on their drawstep to increase the chance they draw land that turn?
3) Do you do it when the opponent is tapped (on your turn) so they can't cast bigger spells with that extra mana you give them?
I guess doing it on their upkeep is never correct unless it's u/w which has lots of instant speed spells?
Against decks like tron and jund doing it on their drawstep is probably best?
And doing it when they're tapped out could be good against U/W since they can't do anything special with that extra mana you give them?
Does that sound about right?
Also do you side out loam vs decks that can run blood moon? Loam can either beat the blood moon effect, or just sit in your hand.
Also does anyone know what happens if you have urborg out and then the opponent plays a blood moon effect? I played urborg after he played magus of the moon, and all my non basics only tapped for red. So what happens the other way around?
Has anyone done testing lately? What's your gauntlet? I've squared off against UW, Zoo, and even the dreaded Jund in the last day or so. Being able to bring in Thrun and equipment has been immense because they have so many dead cards post SB.
So this guy has 3-1'd a few more times with this deck i'm watching the replays as I don't understand how these cards work well together.
game 1: He gets a needle out on ghost quarter. Spell snares a flask, one of the 4ish targets in the eggs deck the other being reshape for 2. Opponent did a few value sunrises, and fizzles at the end, he drew half his deck. The gifts deck won with snapcaster beats and burn to the face on turn 7.
game 2: he needles misty since it's in play. plays meddling mage on lotus bloom. second needle on ghost quarter. then nevermore on sunrise. opponent tries to go off with faith's reward and loses on turn 8.
Analysis: I think he got pretty lucky game 1 needling a good card that was in play and having his spell snare be relevant. Game 2 was pretty impressive though.
Round 2 vs UW resto angel:
game 1: He gifts on turn 4 when his opponent taps out for ambush snapcaster. He gets loam, explosives, academy ruins, batterskull. Opponent gives him loam and explosives. Opponent stuck on 3 lands. Which gifts guy filters though his deck with 2x telling time. Plays a jace b on turn 7. He uses jace to draw 3 cards then casts another one when it dies. He slowly grinds the opponent out with snapcasters, 3 cards off of little jace, and batterskull.
game 2 opponent stuck on 2 lands and has to discard 2 times, didn't bother to watch the rest
analysis His opponent got mana screwed so it's hard to tell how good the deck is there. He pulled way ahead hitting all his land drops when he got to loam once. He never dredged it after that. It doesn't appear that loam is that good in his deck. The snapcasters in this deck are really good because he can flash back bolt, helix, telling time, mana leak, path etc... The uw guy only has path to flashback. I don't know how good little jace is in the deck. He played 2 and drew 3 cards off of each and killed them. It might be better to play a 3 mana card draw spell so you can flash it back with snapcaster.
Game 3 vs black/red burn
game 1: He does nothing for a bunch of turns and is down to 12 life by turn 7. He then casts ajani and his opponent ignores it with his hellspark elemental. He's pretty flooded. He plays baby jace and draws a card. His opponent gets him down to 4 life. Then the gifts guy plays snapcaster as a blocker/bolt but that turns on the burn opponent's searing blaze and he dies.
game 2: Jeeze, he still keeps mana leaks in vs a deck with a low curve. He leaks a goblin guide on turn 2. He sticks a meddling mage on searing blaze. Plays a nevermore on flames of the bloodhand. Its turn 8 and he's at 5 life, the burn deck flooded or has a bunch of searing blazes in hand. Medding mage dies to sudden shock. Another nevermore comes down and names searing blaze. Ajani makes an appearance. Opponent concedes with 5 cards in hand on turn 10.
game 3: Opponent has a pretty good draw. Wins on turn 6 despite having 2 lightning helices cast.
analysis In game 3 you can see how bad the meddling mage plan is. He was stuck on 4 lands on turn 6 with 4 cards in hand. It seems too inconsistent to try that strategy. Just play dispel. This is his first loss.
Game 4 vs rg tron
game 1: gets a needle out on karn on turn 2. Opponent has tron on turn 3. But on turn 4 he casts wurmcoil which gets dissipated. On turn 4 he casts gifts for tec edge, loam, needle, and gifts. Opponent gives him needle and loam and concedes. This was the only game recorded.
Sadly this didn't really showcase the deck. He got lucky in some of his games. It doesn't seem like loam is that good in the deck. All he can get back with it is tech edge and academy ruins with gift piles. And the planeswalkers didn't seem too good either. Ajani was a 4 mana lightning helix. I wonder if it would be worth playing delver instead, or does that just turn on all the opponents removal? Jace seemed underwhelming as well. Probably should be a card draw spell if he's just going to kill it after 3 turns. This seems like a very good snapcaster deck. The miser copy of dissipate doesn't seem that bad. The meddling mage sideboard plan seems too gimmicky to me. I guess the 2 pithing needles main deck are to mise against combo decks since he doesn't have that many counters main. Most of his spells are creature removal spells.
I think there's something to this deck though. Play cheap and good removal spells and counters, then get card advantage through gifts/snapcaster/walkers and then try to win via burn/manlands/batterskull. Though I don't really like the meddling mage sideboard plan.
His deck is mostly on the stack. The cards that are permanents give value when they come into play(snapcaster) or are hard to deal with (batterskull), or both(walkers). So it seems pretty well positioned vs jund making a lot of their removal ineffective. He runs 2 wraths and 1 explosives he can gifts for them to deal with lingering souls.
Also he's probably less reliant on the graveyard. I'm guessing he sides out some snapcasters post board for his meddling mage plan.
Liliana lets you pitch dead cards in hand.
UWBG Gifts in Modern
UWBG Control in Standard
UBG Control in Legacy
Does the lack of the Loam engine hurt at all against tron or are sowing salts enough to lock them down? Also seems like abrupt decay is necessary to beat cranial plating and deathrite's green is very good at times, though less relevant now that jund is off the persist/undying creature plan.
EDIT: what exactly is the red splash for besides salt and bolt, maybe rakdos charm in the SB?
Also, you should keep streaming! I watched some of your old videos and found them to be very helpful.
For Reference:
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Batterskull
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sun Titan
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Life from the Loam
1 Raven's Crime
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Negate
2 Unburial Rites
3 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Lingering Souls
4 Gifts Ungiven
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Breeding Pool
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Academy Ruins
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Celestial Colonnade
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Watery Grave
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Marsh Flats
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Nature's Claim
2 Thoughtseize
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Kitchen Finks
Snapcaster is the blue bloodbraid.
Cryptic command?
that's the point of my post
As for the grixis deck, I just really want to cast cruel ultimatum again. The biggest edge it has over loam gifts is that you can close games out from nowhere courtesy of Bolt/Snapcaster/Vendilion Clique, but the mana is even more difficult thanks to wanting to cast both Izzet Charm and Liliana.
I'm glad you enjoyed my stream! I'm hopefully going to a local modern event in a couple hours, but if that doesn't work out, I'll probably stream for a decent amount of time today. Good luck to those playing in the Grand Prix with the deck.
UWBG Gifts in Modern
UWBG Control in Standard
UBG Control in Legacy